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Differences between Hit points... defense points and defen..

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Anonymous
December 11, 2004 4:20:23 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

Are "Attack points" related to "Hit points"?
How are the "Defender bonus'" applied? Are they applied to the "Hit points"
or the Defense points? ( I assume since they are "defender" they should be
applied to the "Defense points. However I don't see my games playing exactly
that way.)
Example:
Veteran Knight has attack of 4 and defense of 3. If he is "Fortified" would
he have
a 25% bonus and have a total defense of 3.75? Thereby not being able to
withstand
an attack by another veteran Knight with the same attack strength of 4?

Are Defense bonuses added together?
Do "Fortified " units behind "Town Walls " get a 75% bonus?

When do Towns turn into Cities then to Metro?

What effect does the "Power" or overall score of a competing
Civ have on their "Hit Points"? Do stronger Civ's get more hit points or
defense points?

I'm just trying to figure out how an Elite Warrior from the dominant Civ
just killed my Fortified Elite Musketman behind town walls. ( Yes my
Musketman was at full strength. I thought he was to have defense of 6,
while the Elite Warrior should only have had an attack of 1 with 5 hit
points?)
Thanks
Xeno

More about : differences hit points defense points defen

Anonymous
December 11, 2004 4:20:24 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

I believe your musketman defender had a defense of 7 = 4 base + 2 town + 1
fortify. The warrior had an attack of 1 (unless it had a radar tower in
range).
Depending on the difficulty you're playing, the AI has an unpublished
bonus. I play on regent and the "edge" of the AI isn't much. I still see
tanks die attacking AI spearman (rare) and I expect to lose 2/3 of my
calvary attacking musketmen. I also don't count on the terrain bonus
enhancing my units; I will lose any unit in a mountain if it's alone,
usually to the 1st attacker.
I build more units. It's the only way to level the playing field, imho.
There's a pretty neat combat calculator available in this thread at
civfanatics: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=75765
I hope that helps.
On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 01:20:23 GMT, Xeno Chauvin <arfulbrank@houston.rr.com>
wrote:

> Are "Attack points" related to "Hit points"?
> How are the "Defender bonus'" applied? Are they applied to the "Hit
> points"
> or the Defense points? ( I assume since they are "defender" they should
> be
> applied to the "Defense points. However I don't see my games playing
> exactly
> that way.)
> Example:
> Veteran Knight has attack of 4 and defense of 3. If he is "Fortified"
> would
> he have
> a 25% bonus and have a total defense of 3.75? Thereby not being able to
> withstand
> an attack by another veteran Knight with the same attack strength of 4?
>
> Are Defense bonuses added together?
> Do "Fortified " units behind "Town Walls " get a 75% bonus?
>
> When do Towns turn into Cities then to Metro?
>
> What effect does the "Power" or overall score of a competing
> Civ have on their "Hit Points"? Do stronger Civ's get more hit points or
> defense points?
>
> I'm just trying to figure out how an Elite Warrior from the dominant Civ
> just killed my Fortified Elite Musketman behind town walls. ( Yes my
> Musketman was at full strength. I thought he was to have defense of 6,
> while the Elite Warrior should only have had an attack of 1 with 5 hit
> points?)
> Thanks
> Xeno
>
>



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Anonymous
December 11, 2004 6:00:50 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

"Auldian" <joelmunjunk@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:o psitnxqtd4h8g87@ranger.attbi.com...

Thanks but the program you mention is more complicated than it's worth and
doesn't
fit on my screen and some of it's cut off. Notice it will give you a
percentage of
times you "might" be successful NOT a true formula to figure that you WILL
be
successful.
I'm playing at Warlord level and have noticed that the game seems to change
rules
with just about every game. In other words IT CHEATS...of course so does
real
life.
Xeno
Anonymous
December 11, 2004 6:00:51 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

"Xeno Chauvin" <arfulbrank@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
news:Cptud.13066$yf.12959@fe2.texas.rr.com...
>
> "Auldian" <joelmunjunk@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:o psitnxqtd4h8g87@ranger.attbi.com...
>
> Thanks but the program you mention is more complicated than it's worth and
> doesn't
> fit on my screen and some of it's cut off. Notice it will give you a
> percentage of
> times you "might" be successful NOT a true formula to figure that you WILL
> be
> successful.
> I'm playing at Warlord level and have noticed that the game seems to
> change
> rules
> with just about every game. In other words IT CHEATS...of course so does
> real
> life.

There are no absolutes in the combat model. All you get is a percent chance
to win, then it is up to the roll of the random # generator. You never get a
100% chance of a win and therefore there is always a slim chance that you
will lose.

The AI does not get combat bonuses for dificulty level. Alot of very
educated players spent a lot of time analyzing the combat model and if there
was a bonus, it would have been found. The model is statistically sound.
Anonymous
December 11, 2004 8:17:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

"Xeno Chauvin" <arfulbrank@houston.rr.com> wrote in
news:rXrud.7442$2e.2011@fe2.texas.rr.com:

> Are "Attack points" related to "Hit points"?
> How are the "Defender bonus'" applied? Are they applied to the
> "Hit points" or the Defense points? ( I assume since they are
> "defender" they should be applied to the "Defense points. However
> I don't see my games playing exactly that way.)
> Example:
> Veteran Knight has attack of 4 and defense of 3. If he is
> "Fortified" would he have
> a 25% bonus and have a total defense of 3.75? Thereby not being
> able to withstand
> an attack by another veteran Knight with the same attack strength
> of 4?

Check the civilopedia Combat and Defender Combat Bonus sections.
Combat takes place in rounds. Basically it is attack value vs defense
value, so that even numbers will give even odds that either unit will
take damage. This continues until one unit is destroyed or retreats.
There is always a chance of victory for the either unit.

> Are Defense bonuses added together?
> Do "Fortified " units behind "Town Walls " get a 75% bonus?

Yes and yes.

> When do Towns turn into Cities then to Metro?

At population 7 and 13.

> What effect does the "Power" or overall score of a competing
> Civ have on their "Hit Points"?

None.

> Do stronger Civ's get more hit points or defense points?

No.

> I'm just trying to figure out how an Elite Warrior from the
> dominant Civ just killed my Fortified Elite Musketman behind town
> walls. ( Yes my Musketman was at full strength. I thought he was
> to have defense of 6, while the Elite Warrior should only have
> had an attack of 1 with 5 hit points?)

It happens sometimes. Even a 1 vs 6 is about a 14% chance for the 1
to win.

--
ICQ: 8105495
AIM: KeeperGFA
EMail: thekeeper@canada.com
"If we did the things we are capable of,
we would astound ourselves." - Edison
Anonymous
December 11, 2004 8:20:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

Auldian <joelmunjunk@comcast.net> wrote in
news:o psitnxqtd4h8g87@ranger.attbi.com:

> I believe your musketman defender had a defense of 7 = 4 base + 2
> town + 1 fortify. The warrior had an attack of 1 (unless it had a
> radar tower in range).
> Depending on the difficulty you're playing, the AI has an
> unpublished bonus.

There is no combat bonus for the AI on any level.

Level bonuses apply to food/shield/science requirements,
relations/trade with other AI and the starting number of units.


--
ICQ: 8105495
AIM: KeeperGFA
EMail: thekeeper@canada.com
"If we did the things we are capable of,
we would astound ourselves." - Edison
Anonymous
December 11, 2004 9:44:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

I stand corrected.
Is there a way to "log" the rolls? I see my guys losing 4 rolls before the
AI loses 2 in a seemingly huge proportion of battles. I'm daft perhaps,
but it'd be nice to be able to parse it.
On 11 Dec 2004 17:20:03 GMT, Kevin 'Keeper' Foster <thekeeper@canada.com>
wrote:

> Auldian <joelmunjunk@comcast.net> wrote in
> news:o psitnxqtd4h8g87@ranger.attbi.com:
>
>> I believe your musketman defender had a defense of 7 = 4 base + 2
>> town + 1 fortify. The warrior had an attack of 1 (unless it had a
>> radar tower in range).
>> Depending on the difficulty you're playing, the AI has an
>> unpublished bonus.
>
> There is no combat bonus for the AI on any level.
>
> Level bonuses apply to food/shield/science requirements,
> relations/trade with other AI and the starting number of units.
>
>



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Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
Anonymous
December 13, 2004 5:42:15 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 18:44:17 -0800, Auldian <joelmunjunk@comcast.net>
wrote:

>I stand corrected.
>Is there a way to "log" the rolls? I see my guys losing 4 rolls before the
>AI loses 2 in a seemingly huge proportion of battles. I'm daft perhaps,
>but it'd be nice to be able to parse it.
>On 11 Dec 2004 17:20:03 GMT, Kevin 'Keeper' Foster <thekeeper@canada.com>
>wrote:

Not sure exactly what you mean but there are things you can do to
improve your odds.

Use units which can withdraw from battle if losing. Then rest them up
in cities nearby with barracks. The goal of course being you can
reuse them later.

Make sure you don't attack over a river.

For large cities it helps to blow out terrain improvements. Cut of
key resources and luxuries the AI may be using or trading. Sometimes
you can block harbor ports.

Sometimes it helps to send in slower defensive units first. Then use
them to protect oncoming attack forces. Also hide attack units in
defensive bonuses like mountains.

Never attack a unit in open enemy territory where you cannot retreat.
The AI will always go for the weakened unit and you can consider it a
sacrifice. The exception being when you can take out a much stronger
weakened unit or can defend it afterward. Don't get yourself into a
back and forth battle where you take theirs, they take yours, etc.

Don't attack a city or stack unless you have enough units. The
weakened units will heal, the AI will draft or reinforce, you make
them elite, or you give them a great leader.

You are probably looking for some magic formula to make your army
superhuman. All you can really do is improve their odds. It isn't
just how big it is but how you use it.
Anonymous
December 13, 2004 6:33:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

I understand the techniques; it's the math that seems wrong.
If I don't overbuild defensive units, my ass is handed to me. I just saw 3
fortified spearman lose to 3 archers. The AI won 12 rolls and lost (took
damage) on 3. In this small sample, I lost 80% of my rolls, though I had a
defense of 2.7 vs the AI attack of 2.
On a bigger sample, would the win % be more in line with the A:D ?

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 02:42:15 -0500, P12 <nowhere@all.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 18:44:17 -0800, Auldian <joelmunjunk@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>> I stand corrected.
>> Is there a way to "log" the rolls? I see my guys losing 4 rolls before
>> the
>> AI loses 2 in a seemingly huge proportion of battles. I'm daft perhaps,
>> but it'd be nice to be able to parse it.
>> On 11 Dec 2004 17:20:03 GMT, Kevin 'Keeper' Foster
>> <thekeeper@canada.com>
>> wrote:
>
> Not sure exactly what you mean but there are things you can do to
> improve your odds.
>
> Use units which can withdraw from battle if losing. Then rest them up
> in cities nearby with barracks. The goal of course being you can
> reuse them later.
>
> Make sure you don't attack over a river.
>
> For large cities it helps to blow out terrain improvements. Cut of
> key resources and luxuries the AI may be using or trading. Sometimes
> you can block harbor ports.
>
> Sometimes it helps to send in slower defensive units first. Then use
> them to protect oncoming attack forces. Also hide attack units in
> defensive bonuses like mountains.
>
> Never attack a unit in open enemy territory where you cannot retreat.
> The AI will always go for the weakened unit and you can consider it a
> sacrifice. The exception being when you can take out a much stronger
> weakened unit or can defend it afterward. Don't get yourself into a
> back and forth battle where you take theirs, they take yours, etc.
>
> Don't attack a city or stack unless you have enough units. The
> weakened units will heal, the AI will draft or reinforce, you make
> them elite, or you give them a great leader.
>
> You are probably looking for some magic formula to make your army
> superhuman. All you can really do is improve their odds. It isn't
> just how big it is but how you use it.
>



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Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
Anonymous
December 13, 2004 10:16:57 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 15:33:01 -0800, Auldian <joelmunjunk@comcast.net>
wrote:

>I understand the techniques; it's the math that seems wrong.
>If I don't overbuild defensive units, my ass is handed to me. I just saw 3
>fortified spearman lose to 3 archers. The AI won 12 rolls and lost (took
>damage) on 3. In this small sample, I lost 80% of my rolls, though I had a
>defense of 2.7 vs the AI attack of 2.
>On a bigger sample, would the win % be more in line with the A:D ?

Like others have said people have done the math. If you are going to
compare you need a larger sample than just one event. I have had
wounded Calvary defend against three attacking medieval infantry. The
odds go both way. You can increase your wins by using the advice I
gave. Or you can continue to nitpick over individual events. I have
taken on civs twice my size so I must be doing something right to beat
the odds.
!