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Wanted! People to Videoconference with

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Anonymous
March 10, 2005 11:08:34 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.messenger (More info?)

Several of us are still trying to get MSN Messenger to
perform 2-way video with 2-way audio at the same time.
We've received quite a bit of good advice here, and learned
a lot from it, but we still can't make it play. I feel that
it may be more a matter of technique than hardware or software,
and so I'm seeking people for several of us to try to
interface with.

Some of the ground rules require:

XP...preferably with SP2 for uniformity.
Modem has to be UPnP compliant (whatever that
means, I don't really care)
Webcam mode is fine for video alone, but we're
told that it does *not* support audio,
so please use Video Conference mode only.
Test your mike and speakers separately, to make
sure they're alive and well.
There are some Microsoft Knowledge Base articles on
this, but they go off into directions that
I, for one, cannot follow. Things like
Real-Time Communication Client Support for
Network Address Translation.

Do we have any volunteers who are in the same boat,
who want to lend a hand with the oars?

Bill Lurie
Anonymous
March 11, 2005 11:32:24 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.messenger (More info?)

Greetings,

This is incorrect, there is nothing stopping you from initiating Webcam and then starting
Audio after (or vice-versa).
____________________________________________
Jonathan Kay
Microsoft MVP - Windows Messenger/MSN Messenger
Associate Expert
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com
All posts unless otherwise specified are (c) 2005 Jonathan Kay.
You *must* contact me for redistribution rights.

<billurie@nospam.org> wrote in message news:4230EF92.8020402@nospam.org...
> Several of us are still trying to get MSN Messenger to
> perform 2-way video with 2-way audio at the same time.
> We've received quite a bit of good advice here, and learned
> a lot from it, but we still can't make it play. I feel that
> it may be more a matter of technique than hardware or software,
> and so I'm seeking people for several of us to try to
> interface with.
>
> Some of the ground rules require:
>
> XP...preferably with SP2 for uniformity.
> Modem has to be UPnP compliant (whatever that
> means, I don't really care)
> Webcam mode is fine for video alone, but we're
> told that it does *not* support audio,
> so please use Video Conference mode only.
> Test your mike and speakers separately, to make
> sure they're alive and well.
> There are some Microsoft Knowledge Base articles on
> this, but they go off into directions that
> I, for one, cannot follow. Things like
> Real-Time Communication Client Support for
> Network Address Translation.
>
> Do we have any volunteers who are in the same boat,
> who want to lend a hand with the oars?
>
> Bill Lurie
Anonymous
March 11, 2005 7:32:26 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.messenger (More info?)

We certainly defer to your superior knowledge and experience
both, Jonathan, but the fact remains that when we are in 2-way
video Webcam, messaging each other to coordinate, as soon as
we try to initiate Audio by clicking the Audio button, we get
messages telling us that Audio has been disconnected. We've tried
everything obvious. You say nothing is stopping us......well,
what's stopping us is that we can't make it work.

We need somehow an MSN Messenger-based procedure that is step-
by-step, so that when we get to step "X" and it doesn't work,
we can report that back.

Bill Lurie

Jonathan Kay [MVP] wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> This is incorrect, there is nothing stopping you from initiating Webcam and then starting
> Audio after (or vice-versa).
> ____________________________________________
> Jonathan Kay
> Microsoft MVP - Windows Messenger/MSN Messenger
> Associate Expert
> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
> Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com
> All posts unless otherwise specified are (c) 2005 Jonathan Kay.
> You *must* contact me for redistribution rights.
>
> <billurie@nospam.org> wrote in message news:4230EF92.8020402@nospam.org...
>
>>Several of us are still trying to get MSN Messenger to
>>perform 2-way video with 2-way audio at the same time.
>>We've received quite a bit of good advice here, and learned
>>a lot from it, but we still can't make it play. I feel that
>>it may be more a matter of technique than hardware or software,
>>and so I'm seeking people for several of us to try to
>>interface with.
>>
>>Some of the ground rules require:
>>
>>XP...preferably with SP2 for uniformity.
>>Modem has to be UPnP compliant (whatever that
>>means, I don't really care)
>>Webcam mode is fine for video alone, but we're
>>told that it does *not* support audio,
>>so please use Video Conference mode only.
>>Test your mike and speakers separately, to make
>>sure they're alive and well.
>>There are some Microsoft Knowledge Base articles on
>>this, but they go off into directions that
>>I, for one, cannot follow. Things like
>>Real-Time Communication Client Support for
>>Network Address Translation.
>>
>>Do we have any volunteers who are in the same boat,
>>who want to lend a hand with the oars?
>>
>>Bill Lurie
>
>
>


--
William B. Lurie
Related resources
Anonymous
March 11, 2005 9:13:52 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.messenger (More info?)

Bill

How much memory do you have?.. webcam and voice needs a little bit of
power..

--
Mike Hall
MVP - Windows Shell/user

http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm





<billurie@nospam.org> wrote in message
news:%23LEDUHoJFHA.3356@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> We certainly defer to your superior knowledge and experience
> both, Jonathan, but the fact remains that when we are in 2-way
> video Webcam, messaging each other to coordinate, as soon as
> we try to initiate Audio by clicking the Audio button, we get
> messages telling us that Audio has been disconnected. We've tried
> everything obvious. You say nothing is stopping us......well,
> what's stopping us is that we can't make it work.
>
> We need somehow an MSN Messenger-based procedure that is step-
> by-step, so that when we get to step "X" and it doesn't work,
> we can report that back.
>
> Bill Lurie
>
> Jonathan Kay [MVP] wrote:
>> Greetings,
>>
>> This is incorrect, there is nothing stopping you from initiating Webcam
>> and then starting Audio after (or vice-versa).
>> ____________________________________________
>> Jonathan Kay
>> Microsoft MVP - Windows Messenger/MSN Messenger
>> Associate Expert
>> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
>> Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com
>> All posts unless otherwise specified are (c) 2005 Jonathan Kay.
>> You *must* contact me for redistribution rights.
>>
>> <billurie@nospam.org> wrote in message
>> news:4230EF92.8020402@nospam.org...
>>
>>>Several of us are still trying to get MSN Messenger to
>>>perform 2-way video with 2-way audio at the same time.
>>>We've received quite a bit of good advice here, and learned
>>>a lot from it, but we still can't make it play. I feel that
>>>it may be more a matter of technique than hardware or software,
>>>and so I'm seeking people for several of us to try to
>>>interface with.
>>>
>>>Some of the ground rules require:
>>>
>>>XP...preferably with SP2 for uniformity.
>>>Modem has to be UPnP compliant (whatever that
>>>means, I don't really care)
>>>Webcam mode is fine for video alone, but we're
>>>told that it does *not* support audio,
>>>so please use Video Conference mode only.
>>>Test your mike and speakers separately, to make
>>>sure they're alive and well.
>>>There are some Microsoft Knowledge Base articles on
>>>this, but they go off into directions that
>>>I, for one, cannot follow. Things like
>>>Real-Time Communication Client Support for
>>>Network Address Translation.
>>>
>>>Do we have any volunteers who are in the same boat,
>>>who want to lend a hand with the oars?
>>>
>>>Bill Lurie
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> William B. Lurie
Anonymous
March 11, 2005 10:48:55 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.messenger (More info?)

Mike Hall (MS-MVP) wrote:
> Bill
>
> How much memory do you have?.. webcam and voice needs a little bit of
> power..
>
Mike, I appreciate your interest. I'm waist deep in this
videoconferencing thing for several reasons, and need help
from the people who know.

I have 1024Meg of RAM, XP/SP2, loads of room on the hard drive,
and DSL connection. But there has been a late development.

Several days ago, my ISP (BellSouth) by remote access, did what they
could to render my Westell model UPnP compliant. Now that that
didn't solve the problem, they admit that they put it into a 'bridging'
mode, but that it cannot be made UPnP compliant, and they have no
other modem to furnish.

From what I've been told in this newsgroup (please confirm), both
parties must have UPnP compliant modems. Taken at face value, I
do not have and therefore there is no point in looking elsewhere
until I do. I have an alternative path to take, in that my local
cable company (Adelphia) would love to have me switch to them and
leave BellSouth. And I suspect they will provide a UPnP compliant
modem. My next move is to pit BellSouth against Adelphia and see
who comes up with a solution first.

And so, I believe that we should concentrate on this one facet of the
problem, the modem, before looking beyond. And I hope that this lengthy
discussion will benefit others; after all, this is the meeting place
and bulletin board for people attempting to use MSN Messenger!

Bill Lurie
Anonymous
March 11, 2005 11:55:26 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.messenger (More info?)

Bill

I looked at the BellSouth website and see that they have quite a list of
supported modems.. I am fairly sure that at least two of them are UPnP
enabled.. BellSouth may not supply them, but you could always buy one..

--
Mike Hall
MVP - Windows Shell/user

http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm





<billurie@nospam.org> wrote in message news:42323C77.9030507@nospam.org...
> Mike Hall (MS-MVP) wrote:
>> Bill
>>
>> How much memory do you have?.. webcam and voice needs a little bit of
>> power..
>>
> Mike, I appreciate your interest. I'm waist deep in this videoconferencing
> thing for several reasons, and need help
> from the people who know.
>
> I have 1024Meg of RAM, XP/SP2, loads of room on the hard drive,
> and DSL connection. But there has been a late development.
>
> Several days ago, my ISP (BellSouth) by remote access, did what they
> could to render my Westell model UPnP compliant. Now that that
> didn't solve the problem, they admit that they put it into a 'bridging'
> mode, but that it cannot be made UPnP compliant, and they have no
> other modem to furnish.
>
> From what I've been told in this newsgroup (please confirm), both
> parties must have UPnP compliant modems. Taken at face value, I
> do not have and therefore there is no point in looking elsewhere
> until I do. I have an alternative path to take, in that my local
> cable company (Adelphia) would love to have me switch to them and
> leave BellSouth. And I suspect they will provide a UPnP compliant
> modem. My next move is to pit BellSouth against Adelphia and see
> who comes up with a solution first.
>
> And so, I believe that we should concentrate on this one facet of the
> problem, the modem, before looking beyond. And I hope that this lengthy
> discussion will benefit others; after all, this is the meeting place
> and bulletin board for people attempting to use MSN Messenger!
>
> Bill Lurie
Anonymous
March 12, 2005 9:35:23 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.messenger (More info?)

Mike Hall (MS-MVP) wrote:
> Bill
>
> I looked at the BellSouth website and see that they have quite a list of
> supported modems.. I am fairly sure that at least two of them are UPnP
> enabled.. BellSouth may not supply them, but you could always buy one..
>
Mike, I guess my searching methods aren't as good as yours.
Could you link me to that list? Thank you.

-- Bill
Anonymous
March 12, 2005 10:56:45 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.messenger (More info?)

Bill

Not a problem.. click on the link..

https://www.fastaccess.com/content/consumer/popups/mode...

--
Mike Hall
MVP - Windows Shell/user

http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm





<billurie@nospam.org> wrote in message
news:%23i2rYevJFHA.1040@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Mike Hall (MS-MVP) wrote:
>> Bill
>>
>> I looked at the BellSouth website and see that they have quite a list of
>> supported modems.. I am fairly sure that at least two of them are UPnP
>> enabled.. BellSouth may not supply them, but you could always buy one..
>>
> Mike, I guess my searching methods aren't as good as yours.
> Could you link me to that list? Thank you.
>
> -- Bill
>
Anonymous
March 12, 2005 10:58:38 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.messenger (More info?)

Mike Hall (MS-MVP) wrote:
> Bill
>
> I looked at the BellSouth website and see that they have quite a list of
> supported modems.. I am fairly sure that at least two of them are UPnP
> enabled.. BellSouth may not supply them, but you could always buy one..
>
Mike, I found the list, and thanks for steering me
to it. I just received the following note from the BellSouth
DSL Help Desk:

The Westell modem is Plug and Play if you connect it via Ethernet. If it is
connected via USB, then you would need to install the USB drivers.

Well, my modem *is* connected via Ethernet. That makes it Plug and
Play, it says. Does that mean it is "UPnP Compliant", and that I need
not change modems?
Anonymous
March 12, 2005 12:11:10 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.messenger (More info?)

MSN Messenger 6.2.0205 audio/video requirements:

1. When using a high speed Internet connection, the modem/router MUST be
UPnP compatible and have this option active. For MSN Messenger 6.2.0205, both
sides must have Windows XP. Set Zone Alarm to either medium or high, but set
it to ALLOW the MSN Messenger 6.2.0205 all access to the Internet.

2. On the Network Connections, right click Local Area Connection, go to
Properties, and the General tab should show a check mark only on Client for
Microsoft Network, and Internet Protocol (TCP/IP). No check on File and
Printer Sharing for Microsoft Networks, nor on QoS Packet Scheduler.

3. The Windows Firewall should be ON (recommended) and no check in Don't
allow exceptions . The Exceptions tab will later show the MSN Messenger
6.2.0205 and UPnP Framework as being active.

4. In the Control Panel > Add Remove Programs > Add Remove Windows
Components, scroll to Networking Services and remove all checks, except for
Internet Gateway Device Discovery (A), and for UPnP User Interface (B). Click
Ok, Next, and after clicking Next the Windows Wizard Component will run.
Click Finish; now the UPnP will automatically open all required ports.

5. Sign in on Messenger and run Audio/Video Tuning Wizard. In the Tools >
Options > Connection tab, you should read You are connected to the Internet
through a UPnP symmetric NAT. (Administrator); if you are using a dial-up
line it will read You are connected to the Internet using a direct
connection. Now check the Windows Firewall Exceptions list, the MSN Messenger
6.2.0205 and UPnP Framework will now have a check marks and the required
ports automatically opend.

6. Both Windows XP users sides should have similar setups, with working
webcams and microphones. Remember that one side can have dial-up and the
other a UPnP compatible modem/router.

(A) Allow you to find and control internet connection sharing hardware and
software that uses UPnP.

(B) Display icons in My Network Places for the UPnP devices detected on the
network; also opens the required Windows Firewall ports.

Hope this will help, it has many people with a UPnP compatible modem/router
with ADSL line. Your friend, Efrain.


"billurie@nospam.org" wrote:

> Mike Hall (MS-MVP) wrote:
> > Bill
> >
> > I looked at the BellSouth website and see that they have quite a list of
> > supported modems.. I am fairly sure that at least two of them are UPnP
> > enabled.. BellSouth may not supply them, but you could always buy one..
> >
> Mike, I found the list, and thanks for steering me
> to it. I just received the following note from the BellSouth
> DSL Help Desk:
>
> The Westell modem is Plug and Play if you connect it via Ethernet. If it is
> connected via USB, then you would need to install the USB drivers.
>
> Well, my modem *is* connected via Ethernet. That makes it Plug and
> Play, it says. Does that mean it is "UPnP Compliant", and that I need
> not change modems?
>
Anonymous
March 12, 2005 12:51:02 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.messenger (More info?)

I didn't see that any of the Westall modem/routers in their Liteline,
Proline, nor Ultraline were UPnP protocol compatible. I told you the solution
days ago.

"billurie@nospam.org" wrote:

> Mike Hall (MS-MVP) wrote:
> > Bill
> >
> > I looked at the BellSouth website and see that they have quite a list of
> > supported modems.. I am fairly sure that at least two of them are UPnP
> > enabled.. BellSouth may not supply them, but you could always buy one..
> >
> Mike, I found the list, and thanks for steering me
> to it. I just received the following note from the BellSouth
> DSL Help Desk:
>
> The Westell modem is Plug and Play if you connect it via Ethernet. If it is
> connected via USB, then you would need to install the USB drivers.
>
> Well, my modem *is* connected via Ethernet. That makes it Plug and
> Play, it says. Does that mean it is "UPnP Compliant", and that I need
> not change modems?
>
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 12:05:45 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.messenger (More info?)

billurie@nospam.org wrote:
> Mike Hall (MS-MVP) wrote:
>
>> Bill
>>
>> I looked at the BellSouth website and see that they have quite a list
>> of supported modems.. I am fairly sure that at least two of them are
>> UPnP enabled.. BellSouth may not supply them, but you could always buy
>> one..
>>
> Mike, I found the list, and thanks for steering me
> to it. I just received the following note from the BellSouth
> DSL Help Desk:
>
> The Westell modem is Plug and Play if you connect it via Ethernet. If
> it is
> connected via USB, then you would need to install the USB drivers.
>
> Well, my modem *is* connected via Ethernet. That makes it Plug and
> Play, it says. Does that mean it is "UPnP Compliant", and that I need
> not change modems?
A day later, Mike, and I believe that the problem has been solved,
and almost painlessly. I pinged BellSouth DSL_helpdesk, and they
admitted that the modem in question has properties which must be
changed to allow video and audio to go to the same PC. It has a NAT,
and the whole business of NAT and firewall (which it resembles to
some extent) is technical in an area which I prefer not to pursue.

I gave them Remote Access to my PC, and they reprogrammed the modem
(and updated it), and in short order, I have had successful, full
Videoconference with one local party.

My advice to others with this problem: discuss it with the tech
support people of your ISP, and make sure that your modem and/or router
are configured to allow video plus audio. What really broke it loose was
a test I made, on 56K dial-up to Juno, which resulted in good video-
conferencing. Be strong about it, and maybe my experience will have
helped.

Bill Lurie
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 1:00:31 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.messenger (More info?)

Bill

This has been a problem for quite a while.. until modems appeared that were
or could be UPnP enabled, it looked like combined video/audio in Windows/MSN
Messenger, where the user was running high speed connection through a NAT
device, was lost for ever..

--
Mike Hall
MVP - Windows Shell/user

http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm





<billurie@nospam.org> wrote in message
news:e8IiIX9JFHA.3916@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> billurie@nospam.org wrote:
>> Mike Hall (MS-MVP) wrote:
>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>> I looked at the BellSouth website and see that they have quite a list of
>>> supported modems.. I am fairly sure that at least two of them are UPnP
>>> enabled.. BellSouth may not supply them, but you could always buy one..
>>>
>> Mike, I found the list, and thanks for steering me
>> to it. I just received the following note from the BellSouth
>> DSL Help Desk:
>>
>> The Westell modem is Plug and Play if you connect it via Ethernet. If it
>> is
>> connected via USB, then you would need to install the USB drivers.
>>
>> Well, my modem *is* connected via Ethernet. That makes it Plug and
>> Play, it says. Does that mean it is "UPnP Compliant", and that I need
>> not change modems?
> A day later, Mike, and I believe that the problem has been solved,
> and almost painlessly. I pinged BellSouth DSL_helpdesk, and they
> admitted that the modem in question has properties which must be
> changed to allow video and audio to go to the same PC. It has a NAT,
> and the whole business of NAT and firewall (which it resembles to
> some extent) is technical in an area which I prefer not to pursue.
>
> I gave them Remote Access to my PC, and they reprogrammed the modem
> (and updated it), and in short order, I have had successful, full
> Videoconference with one local party.
>
> My advice to others with this problem: discuss it with the tech
> support people of your ISP, and make sure that your modem and/or router
> are configured to allow video plus audio. What really broke it loose was
> a test I made, on 56K dial-up to Juno, which resulted in good video-
> conferencing. Be strong about it, and maybe my experience will have
> helped.
>
> Bill Lurie
>
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 2:34:03 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.messenger (More info?)

Well, Mike, fortunately it is alive and well, but education on how to
implement it is not easy to come by. This newsgroup certainly seems
to be the appropriate bulletin board on which to publish what it
takes to make it work.

As the record shows, I got plenty of good advice, and fortunately
no barbs, while systematically working to isolate what was standing
in the way. But ultimately, we hit on the idea of trying it with a
low speed simple connection rather than the complex DSL router.
That pinned it down, and since the modem was ISP-furnished, we
got them to put it into a compatible mode.

As I said, let's hope other people in this group do a search
on 'Videoconferencing' and learn from our actions.

```````Bill L.

Mike Hall (MS-MVP) wrote:
> Bill
>
> This has been a problem for quite a while.. until modems appeared that were
> or could be UPnP enabled, it looked like combined video/audio in Windows/MSN
> Messenger, where the user was running high speed connection through a NAT
> device, was lost for ever..
>


--
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 2:51:42 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.messenger (More info?)

Bill

I gave you advice re. UPnP and NAT devices (as did one or two others) when
you started the original thread in the XP basics newsgroup..

Dialup devices are not capable of Network Address Translation, so anybody
using Dialup would not have asked about the problem in the first place.. I
knew from my own experience with early ADSL/DSL/Cable and MSN/Windows
Messenger that audio/video connection was a problem when high-speed first
appeared.. I worked around it at the time by using Yahoo to communicate with
my wife and kids while I worked overseas..

Anyway, it is good that you now have what you wanted..

--
Mike Hall
MVP - Windows Shell/user

http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm





<billurie@nospam.org> wrote in message
news:o AL8Kq%23JFHA.3552@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> Well, Mike, fortunately it is alive and well, but education on how to
> implement it is not easy to come by. This newsgroup certainly seems
> to be the appropriate bulletin board on which to publish what it
> takes to make it work.
>
> As the record shows, I got plenty of good advice, and fortunately
> no barbs, while systematically working to isolate what was standing
> in the way. But ultimately, we hit on the idea of trying it with a
> low speed simple connection rather than the complex DSL router.
> That pinned it down, and since the modem was ISP-furnished, we
> got them to put it into a compatible mode.
>
> As I said, let's hope other people in this group do a search
> on 'Videoconferencing' and learn from our actions.
>
> ```````Bill L.
>
> Mike Hall (MS-MVP) wrote:
>> Bill
>>
>> This has been a problem for quite a while.. until modems appeared that
>> were or could be UPnP enabled, it looked like combined video/audio in
>> Windows/MSN Messenger, where the user was running high speed connection
>> through a NAT device, was lost for ever..
>>
>
>
> --
!