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USB 1.1 with 802.11g

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July 14, 2004 12:04:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Anyone know how much slower an 802.11g USB adapter is when hooked to a
USB 1.1 port? Will it operate at "b" speeds or closer to 'g' speeds?

TP

More about : usb 802 11g

Anonymous
a b F Wireless
July 14, 2004 12:04:10 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

"Tony" <askme@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:2ljbjpFd8jdjU1@uni-berlin.de...
> Anyone know how much slower an 802.11g USB adapter is when hooked to a
> USB 1.1 port? Will it operate at "b" speeds or closer to 'g' speeds?
>
> TP

USB 1.1 port max rate is 11mbps. G is max 54 Mbps.

Bob Alston


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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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July 14, 2004 4:46:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Only at 11b speed. Since USB 1.1 only supports 12Mbps data transfer rate,
while
2.0 up to 480Mbps, far more than 11g's 54Mbps.


"Tony" <askme@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:2ljbjpFd8jdjU1@uni-berlin.de...
> Anyone know how much slower an 802.11g USB adapter is when hooked to a
> USB 1.1 port? Will it operate at "b" speeds or closer to 'g' speeds?
>
> TP
Related resources
July 14, 2004 4:46:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Walker wrote:
> Only at 11b speed. Since USB 1.1 only supports 12Mbps data transfer rate,
> while
> 2.0 up to 480Mbps, far more than 11g's 54Mbps.
>
>
> "Tony" <askme@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:2ljbjpFd8jdjU1@uni-berlin.de...
>
>>Anyone know how much slower an 802.11g USB adapter is when hooked to a
>>USB 1.1 port? Will it operate at "b" speeds or closer to 'g' speeds?
>>
>>TP
>
>


Anyone know an easy way to determine whether or not a pc has a 2.0 USB
port/hub?

TP
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
July 14, 2004 4:46:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 08:36:30 -0400, Tony <askme@nospam.com> wrote:

>Anyone know an easy way to determine whether or not a pc has a 2.0 USB
>port/hub?
>TP

If it were easy, it would be no fun.

1. Read the data sheet on the PC manufacturers web pile.
2. Dive into the Windoze Control panel -> System -> Hardware(?) and
see if there's a USB 2.0 port listed.
3. Plug in a USB 2.0 device and watch Windoze complain with a message
that it can only find a USB 1.1 device. This varies with drivers.
4. Download and run one of the free system information tools.
http://www.belarc.com
http://www.majorgeeks.com/download181.html

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
July 14, 2004 5:30:42 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 09:13:44 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 08:36:30 -0400, Tony <askme@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>>Anyone know an easy way to determine whether or not a pc has a 2.0 USB
>>port/hub?
>>TP
>
> If it were easy, it would be no fun.
>
> 1. Read the data sheet on the PC manufacturers web pile.
> 2. Dive into the Windoze Control panel -> System -> Hardware(?) and
> see if there's a USB 2.0 port listed.

In Control panel -> System -> Devices, if there is a USB 2.0 there will be
entries for standard USB and an additional entry for USB 2.0 or Enhanced
USB.

> 3. Plug in a USB 2.0 device and watch Windoze complain with a message
> that it can only find a USB 1.1 device. This varies with drivers.
> 4. Download and run one of the free system information tools.
> http://www.belarc.com
> http://www.majorgeeks.com/download181.html
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
July 14, 2004 8:02:48 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote in message
news:ebmaf09nc3dlmt57j3m6icapiuqkakqpul@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 08:36:30 -0400, Tony <askme@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> >Anyone know an easy way to determine whether or not a pc has a 2.0 USB
> >port/hub?
> >TP
>
> If it were easy, it would be no fun.
>
> 1. Read the data sheet on the PC manufacturers web pile.
> 2. Dive into the Windoze Control panel -> System -> Hardware(?) and
> see if there's a USB 2.0 port listed.
> 3. Plug in a USB 2.0 device and watch Windoze complain with a message
> that it can only find a USB 1.1 device. This varies with drivers.
> 4. Download and run one of the free system information tools.
> http://www.belarc.com
> http://www.majorgeeks.com/download181.html
>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
> 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff -

I have the AIDA32 utility and it could not tell me what kind of USB adapter
my Dell DImension 4400 had. Are you sure it and the other one will? If so,
exactly where do I look in the results?

I eventually used the AIDA32 info on motherboard to go to the Intel site and
look up the specs for my motherboard.

Bob Alston


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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.719 / Virus Database: 475 - Release Date: 7/12/2004
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
July 14, 2004 8:05:34 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Tony <askme@nospam.com> wrote:
> Anyone know an easy way to determine whether or not a pc has a 2.0 USB
> port/hub?

Two ways:
I have a cheap (free after rebate) 1.1 hub, and a 2.0 flash drive.
If I plug the flash into the hub into a 2.0 port, I get a complaint from
WinXP that I have a less-than-optimum arrangement.

start-settings-control panel-system-hardware-device manager
Click on +Universal Serial Bus Controllers.
If Enhanced appears, you have 2.0.
"Intel PCI to USB Enhanced Host Controller"
Standard is 1.1, which also appears under any 2.0 controller by spec.
"Standard Universal PCI to USB Host Controller"
My Dell also shows "USB 2.0 root hub" which is fairly obvious, but that
only appears on some machines (with multiple USB ports).

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8-122.5
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
July 14, 2004 9:45:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 16:02:48 -0500, "Bob Alston" <bobalston AT aol
DOT com> wrote:

>> 4. Download and run one of the free system information tools.
>> http://www.belarc.com
>> http://www.majorgeeks.com/download181.html

>I have the AIDA32 utility and it could not tell me what kind of USB adapter
>my Dell DImension 4400 had. Are you sure it and the other one will? If so,
>exactly where do I look in the results?

AIDA32 version 3.93.
1. Devices -> Windoze Devices -> USB 2.0 Root Hub
2. Devices -> Physical Devices -> PCI Devices -> NEC USB Enhanced
Host Controller.

>I eventually used the AIDA32 info on motherboard to go to the Intel site and
>look up the specs for my motherboard.

Yep. That also works.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558
July 15, 2004 3:24:14 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

<dold@USBX1X1Xwi.usenet.us.com> wrote in message
news:cd3lke$3ae$2@blue.rahul.net...
> Tony <askme@nospam.com> wrote:
> > Anyone know an easy way to determine whether or not a pc has a 2.0 USB
> > port/hub?
>
> Two ways:
> I have a cheap (free after rebate) 1.1 hub, and a 2.0 flash drive.
> If I plug the flash into the hub into a 2.0 port, I get a complaint from
> WinXP that I have a less-than-optimum arrangement.
>
> start-settings-control panel-system-hardware-device manager
> Click on +Universal Serial Bus Controllers.
> If Enhanced appears, you have 2.0.
> "Intel PCI to USB Enhanced Host Controller"
> Standard is 1.1, which also appears under any 2.0 controller by spec.
> "Standard Universal PCI to USB Host Controller"
> My Dell also shows "USB 2.0 root hub" which is fairly obvious, but that
> only appears on some machines (with multiple USB ports).
>
> --
> ---
> Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8-122.5
>

So "Standard Enhanced PCI to USB Host Controller" means I have a USB 2.0
port? THat's what the Belarc tool reports to me.

TP
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
July 15, 2004 5:04:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Tony <tpapa@carolina.rr.com> wrote:

> So "Standard Enhanced PCI to USB Host Controller" means I have a USB 2.0
> port? THat's what the Belarc tool reports to me.

What OS are you running?

"Enhanced USB" refers to USB 2.0. In your case, it looks like "Enhanced PCI",
which might be something different.

Empirical testing is in order. If you can borrow a device that is capable
of greater than 2MBpS sustained data rate, you could write to it and see.
My SanDisk 256MB flashdrive is capable of 2MBpS. That's enough to see the
difference, if you are careful. It only does 962 KBpS on USB 1.1

On Windows 2000, small writes might be _very_ fast to cache. Then if you
"eject" or "safely unplug USB device", the data is flushed, and you can see
the real speed.
WindowsXP defaults to write-through cache, and provides a better real-time
performance observation.

If you can get one of the external USB disk drives that are available, they
are typically capable of 10-20MBpS. If you can write to one of those for a
few hundred meg, you know you aren't playing in cache, and you can see a
real speed.

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8-122.5
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
July 15, 2004 5:04:10 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 01:04:09 +0000 (UTC),
dold@USBX1X1Xwi.usenet.us.com wrote:

>Tony <tpapa@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> So "Standard Enhanced PCI to USB Host Controller" means I have a USB 2.0
>> port? THat's what the Belarc tool reports to me.

>What OS are you running?

The OS is easy to deduce.
WinXP Home No mention at all of operating system.
WinXP Pro No mention of OS and mutters about domain login.
W2K Pro Asks if XP drivers will work.
WinME Mentions that it runs slower and slower over time.
Win98SE Calls it "My Windows".
Win98 Anything with a Pentium 166 or slower.
Win95 Doesn't know the OS version.
Win 3.11 Talks about INI files.
Based on the above, I would deduce that he's running WinXP Home.

>"Enhanced USB" refers to USB 2.0. In your case, it looks like "Enhanced PCI",
>which might be something different.

It should explicitely says USB 2.0. The problem is that many machines
come with drivers only for 1.1 even though the motherboard will do
2.0. The Windoze hardware list will show an "enhanced" controller,
but unless the USB 2.0 drivers are installed, it will only run at 1.1
speeds. The USB 2.0 drivers are in various updates to XP, ME, and
W2K, but must be installed from the manufacturers driver pile for
Win98SE.

>Empirical testing is in order.

No problem. For a nominal $50, you can buy a USB loopback/tester and
test software.
http://www.passmark.com/products/usb2test.htm

http://www.millennium-solutions.co.uk/diagnostic-tool-p...
http://www.uxd.com/qtusb2.shtml
I couldn't find any USB test software that was free or that didn't
require additional hardware.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558
July 15, 2004 5:04:11 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 01:04:09 +0000 (UTC),
> dold@USBX1X1Xwi.usenet.us.com wrote:
>
>
>>Tony <tpapa@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>So "Standard Enhanced PCI to USB Host Controller" means I have a USB 2.0
>>>port? THat's what the Belarc tool reports to me.
>
>
>>What OS are you running?
>
>
> The OS is easy to deduce.
> WinXP Home No mention at all of operating system.
> WinXP Pro No mention of OS and mutters about domain login.
> W2K Pro Asks if XP drivers will work.
> WinME Mentions that it runs slower and slower over time.
> Win98SE Calls it "My Windows".
> Win98 Anything with a Pentium 166 or slower.
> Win95 Doesn't know the OS version.
> Win 3.11 Talks about INI files.
> Based on the above, I would deduce that he's running WinXP Home.
>
>
>>"Enhanced USB" refers to USB 2.0. In your case, it looks like "Enhanced PCI",
>>which might be something different.
>
>
> It should explicitely says USB 2.0. The problem is that many machines
> come with drivers only for 1.1 even though the motherboard will do
> 2.0. The Windoze hardware list will show an "enhanced" controller,
> but unless the USB 2.0 drivers are installed, it will only run at 1.1
> speeds. The USB 2.0 drivers are in various updates to XP, ME, and
> W2K, but must be installed from the manufacturers driver pile for
> Win98SE.
>
>
>>Empirical testing is in order.
>
>
> No problem. For a nominal $50, you can buy a USB loopback/tester and
> test software.
> http://www.passmark.com/products/usb2test.htm
>
> http://www.millennium-solutions.co.uk/diagnostic-tool-p...
> http://www.uxd.com/qtusb2.shtml
> I couldn't find any USB test software that was free or that didn't
> require additional hardware.
>
>


I had absolutely no idea it would be this difficult, but thanks for all
the responses!

TP
July 15, 2004 5:04:11 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 01:04:09 +0000 (UTC),
> dold@USBX1X1Xwi.usenet.us.com wrote:
>
>
>>Tony <tpapa@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>So "Standard Enhanced PCI to USB Host Controller" means I have a USB 2.0
>>>port? THat's what the Belarc tool reports to me.
>
>
>>What OS are you running?
>
>
> The OS is easy to deduce.
> WinXP Home No mention at all of operating system.
> WinXP Pro No mention of OS and mutters about domain login.
> W2K Pro Asks if XP drivers will work.
> WinME Mentions that it runs slower and slower over time.
> Win98SE Calls it "My Windows".
> Win98 Anything with a Pentium 166 or slower.
> Win95 Doesn't know the OS version.
> Win 3.11 Talks about INI files.
> Based on the above, I would deduce that he's running WinXP Home.
>
>
>>"Enhanced USB" refers to USB 2.0. In your case, it looks like "Enhanced PCI",
>>which might be something different.
>
>
> It should explicitely says USB 2.0. The problem is that many machines
> come with drivers only for 1.1 even though the motherboard will do
> 2.0. The Windoze hardware list will show an "enhanced" controller,
> but unless the USB 2.0 drivers are installed, it will only run at 1.1
> speeds. The USB 2.0 drivers are in various updates to XP, ME, and
> W2K, but must be installed from the manufacturers driver pile for
> Win98SE.
>
>
>>Empirical testing is in order.
>
>
> No problem. For a nominal $50, you can buy a USB loopback/tester and
> test software.
> http://www.passmark.com/products/usb2test.htm
>
> http://www.millennium-solutions.co.uk/diagnostic-tool-p...
> http://www.uxd.com/qtusb2.shtml
> I couldn't find any USB test software that was free or that didn't
> require additional hardware.
>
>

Yep, it's XP Home - I guess the question I have is will using a 'g' card
with 1.1 USB slow down the network just as if I had a 'b' card running
on the network?

TP
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
July 15, 2004 5:04:12 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 23:00:34 -0400, Tony <askme@nospam.com> wrote:

>Yep, it's XP Home - I guess the question I have is will using a 'g' card
>with 1.1 USB slow down the network just as if I had a 'b' card running
>on the network?
>TP

Actually, your ultimate download speed will depend more on distance
and S/N ratio than on the USB interface or 802.11b vs 802.11g. USB
1.1 runs at 12Mbits/sec. You'll get about 80% of that in transfer
speed or about 10Mbits/sec. If you have an 802.11b radio, that's
fairly good match because it's maximum rate of 11Mbit/sec might yield
perhaps only 6Mbits/sec (which is less than the 10Mbits/sec that USB
1.1 typically delivers).

If you plug an 802.11g radio into a USB 1.1 port, you're basically
limited by the USB 1.1 data rate and will get about 10Mbits/sec
download speed.

I don't have any numbers for 802.11g USB 2.0 adapters (Netgear WG-111,
WG-121). However, my experience with 802.11g is that it doesn't take
much distance for the speed to settle down to a data rate of about
20Mbits/sec which yields about 12Mbit/sec transfer rate. That's a bit
faster than what USB 1.1 can handle, but it's close enough that I
don't think you'll notice much difference unless you streaming at max
speed.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
July 15, 2004 9:55:12 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:
> dold@USBX1X1Xwi.usenet.us.com wrote:
>>Empirical testing is in order.

> No problem. For a nominal $50, you can buy a USB loopback/tester and
> test software.

For $36.95, you can buy the 2.0MBpS-capable USB2.0 SanDisk 256MB miniCruzer.
The timing of Windows copies is possible, or free utilities are available.

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8-122.5
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
July 15, 2004 9:57:34 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Tony <askme@nospam.com> wrote:
> Yep, it's XP Home - I guess the question I have is will using a 'g' card
> with 1.1 USB slow down the network just as if I had a 'b' card running
> on the network?

I don't think so. The radio portion will run at "g" speeds, so the rest of
the WiFi network should run just fine. You just won't be able to move the
data through the USB to or from the wireless that fast.

It might depend on buffering and flow control in the WAP, though.

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8-122.5
!