Understanding the Revolution Controller

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http://cube.ign.com/articles/651/651559p1.html

Understanding the Revolution Controller
If you use two pointers, can four people still play? How will Revolution
handle more conventional games? We've got the facts.
by Matt Casamassina
September 16, 2005 - Nintendo's Revolution controller has set the videogame
industry abuzz with excitement and in some cases confusion. One glance
around popular community message boards proves that gamers are both blown
away by the possibilities and simultaneously scratching their collective
head about how the peripheral might interact with more traditional software.
The device is so dramatically different from the accepted norm that we'd be
surprised if readers weren't thrown for an initial double-take. But once the
details about the new controller sink in, it's not difficult to see the
gameplay possibilities lurking just beyond the horizon.


We've combed over all the controller details and put together a handy list
of facts about the peripheral that, we believe, will help clear up any
misconceptions about what it does and doesn't do. As readers will see below,
the Revolution's input mechanism is thoroughly flexible and preemptively
ready for any type of gameplay challenge.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q: What exactly is so special about the Revolution controller?

A: The Revolution controller may look like a stylish television remote, but
there's a lot more to the device than its glossy exterior suggests. The
remote-like peripheral, which has been called the "free-hand style
controller" and "pointer" by Nintendo, interacts with two motion sensors
placed on the left and right sides of a user's television. The marriage
transforms the pointer into a virtual wand of sorts, enabling users to move
objects and characters in games simply by moving the peripheral. The sensors
read the pointer's every move in real-time space. They can detect up, down,
left and right motion, and also translate forward and backward depth. The
controller's sensors also recognize twisting, rotating and tilting
movements. In short, any motion made by arms and wrists can be translated to
Revolution games.


The free-hand-style unit also comes standard with three gameplay-specific
face buttons, three menu-specific buttons, a D-Pad and an underbelly
trigger. In addition, the unit's bottom shell can be removed, revealing a
slot for expansion peripherals. Nintendo has several add-ons planned, some
of which we'll detail below. The pointer is completely wireless and features
built-in force feedback. Gamers can rotate the free-hand-style unit on its
side to play NES software on Revolution.

Q: Can you give us an example of how it might work in a game?

A: Sure. Imagine a fishing game in which the pointer essentially becomes the
fisherman's pole. Gamers simply make a casting motion to send the line
flying and pull back on the pointer to tug a fish upward once it has taken
the bait. In a sequel to Luigi's Mansion, the pointer might be used as a
flashlight. Gamers point to the area they want to illuminate and Luigi's
flashlight spotlights it. Voila. In a tennis game, the pointer becomes the
racquet. Players swing the device as they would a racquet to smash tennis
balls back at opponents. The list goes on and on and the options only
increase when the peripheral's expansion functionality is considered.

Q: What kinds of expansions are planned?

A: Wide assortments of peripherals are possible, but thus far Nintendo has
only officially confirmed two of them. The first is an analog stick/trigger
unit that Nintendo has dubbed the "nunchuck-style controller." The second is
a conventional controller cradle/shell. Nintendo has also indicated that it
might like to explore other expansions. It used Donkey Kong style bongos and
a light gun as examples.

Q: What does the nunchuck analog/trigger unit do?

A: The small, ergonomic peripheral attaches to the bottom of the pointer by
way of a short cable, and is easily grasped in one hand. The device features
a single analog stick on its top side and two triggers, labeled Z trigger 1
and 2, underneath. The unit extends the functionality of the pointer and
really shows its usefulness in certain genres, particularly first-person
shooters. Imagine the possibilities. With the analog stick in one hand,
users move Samus Aran around the environments in Metroid Prime 3, freeing up
the pointer to act as the heroine's gun. The result is a level of control so
responsive and accurate that its closest rival is a PC/mouse configuration.
Incidentally, Retro Studios created a demo of this very setup that was at
TGS 2005 previewed to a select group of editors, IGN included, and it was
very impressive.

"Our current plan is for each [Revolution] hardware system to be sold with
the free-hand-style controller and the nunchuck-style expansion controller,"
confirms Nintendo of America's senior director of public relations, Beth
Llewelyn.

Q: What does the conventional controller cradle/shell do?

A: This add-on makes it possible to play Revolution games in a more
traditional manner. The shell is designed to look and function like accepted
"regular" controllers, such as the Wave Bird. After its bottom casing is
removed, the Revolution's free-hand-style remote is inserted into a gap in
the middle of the controller shell. Gamers can then use the shell as they
would a traditional controller, with a notable difference: the pointer
remote's sensory functionality remains active. As a result, gamers get the
best of both worlds: more buttons and two analog sticks along with
motion-sensing operations. In a Revolution version of Madden Football,
gamers might be able to use the combo to control players with the shell's
analog sticks and execute pinpoint passes with the pointer's improved
accuracy.


Nintendo has not yet released official imagery of what the controller shell
might look like. However, we've created a mock-up (above) based on what we
know of its functionality. The real controller shell is likely to connect to
the free-hand-style pointer in a very similar fashion. Please note that we
realize our model is not entirely to scale, but this is the best we could do
on short notice.


Q: What do all of the buttons on the free-hand-style pointer do?


A: The main controller features a D-Pad, an on/off switch and several
different face buttons, three of which are dedicated solely to gameplay.
Directly below the unit's D-Pad is an oversized A button. Farther down are
two more buttons. In officially released screenshots, these buttons were
labeled "a" and "b" respectively. However, when Nintendo president Satoru
Iwata held the controller up at his Tokyo Game Show 2005 keynote speech, the
buttons were clearly labeled "X" and "Y." The buttons were also labeled "X"
and "Y" in Nintendo's Revolution controller promo video, which suggests that
the final product is much more likely to use the letters.
"The [Revolution controllers shown] are still prototypes so there may be
slight changes in the final versions," says Nintendo's Llewelyn.

It should be noted that the oversize A button is used for primary action
functionality. It might be used to make a character jump in a first-person
shooter, for example. The X and Y buttons are more likely to be used when
the controller is turned on its side in order to accommodate classics NES
games.


Located in the middle of the controller are three menu-ready buttons:
select, home, and start (from left to right). Nintendo has not yet explained
what the home button is used for, but it is likely to bring up a
Revolution's central operations page -- something akin to Xbox Live. From
here, we suspect gamers will be able to manage their downloaded software or
go online, among other things.

The only other thing of note on the face of the controller are the blue LED
indicators, bottom, that show what controller port the unit is wirelessly
using.

The underbelly of the controller features an ergonomic indent directly
opposite the top's D-Pad. This area houses the B trigger, which is also
considered a primary action button. This button, easily accessed by players,
might be used to fire a weapon in a first-person shooter or to grasp an
object in a god game.

Q: Does the Revolution's free-hand-style controller use batteries?

A: Yes, although the specifics in that regard are still being determined. We
suspect that the unit will use rechargeable batteries and that a charging
dock station will be made available either with the console or sold
separately. Nintendo may have chosen to attach add-ons to the unit with
cables instead of wirelessly in order to avoid further battery issues.

Q: Can users wield two free-hand-style controllers with Revolution games?

A: Yes. Nintendo's Revolution controller promo video shows players using two
pointer controllers to execute various gameplay tasks, such as beating
virtual drums.


Q: Can four players wield two free-hand-style controllers each?

A: No. Only four free-hand-style controllers can be used total, according to
Nintendo. Therefore, if one person used two pointers in a multiplayer game,
only two additional people could play, each with one pointer.

Q: Won't potential light gun add-ons fail to work correctly with Revolution
owners who use high-definition televisions?

A: No. Revolution's sensory technology does not interface with TV scan
lines, as is the standard with traditional light guns. Because of that,
light gun games are entirely possible with Revolution regardless of
television type.

Q: Has Nintendo revealed all the features of the Revolution controller?

A: No, we don't believe so. Certain secondary features still remain hidden.
Nintendo itself may be defining these features even as it tests and reworks
the controller.
31 answers Last reply
More about understanding revolution controller
  1. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    Q: What does the conventional controller cradle/shell do?

    A: This add-on makes it possible to play Revolution games in a more
    traditional manner. The shell is designed to look and function like accepted
    "regular" controllers, such as the Wave Bird. After its bottom casing is
    removed, the Revolution's free-hand-style remote is inserted into a gap in
    the middle of the controller shell. Gamers can then use the shell as they
    would a traditional controller, with a notable difference: the pointer
    remote's sensory functionality remains active. As a result, gamers get the
    best of both worlds: more buttons and two analog sticks along with
    motion-sensing operations. In a Revolution version of Madden Football,
    gamers might be able to use the combo to control players with the shell's
    analog sticks and execute pinpoint passes with the pointer's improved
    accuracy.

    ______________________________________

    OK. I feel a lot better about this. The conventional controller
    cradle/shell sounds great.

    Craig
  2. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    > OK. I feel a lot better about this. The conventional controller
    > cradle/shell sounds great.
    >
    > Craig

    I really don't get the lukewarm reception and people being more concerned
    how conventional games are to be played. Nintendo have taken a risk, and
    come up with a new way of playing, if it works as well as described,
    possibly conventional games won't be as enticing.

    Imagine a tennis game, as well as hitting and adding power, you'll be able
    to add top/back spin in the same fashion as you would with a real tennis
    racket- with a twist of the handle. If the mechanics of the game work well,
    it'll relegate future versions of Virtua Tennis on the PS3 and Xbox360,
    however advanced graphically to the level of pong.
    Maybe the this version of the controller won't be as sophisticated as we
    wish, but at the very least it's a start and an eye opener for industry on
    what's possible besides improvements in graphics..

    ...and on top of that, the back catalog of Nintendo games will be available!
    Genuine innovation in gaming+traditional gaming+value for money, what more
    do people want?!!
  3. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    ln wrote:

    > I really don't get the lukewarm reception and people being more concerned
    > how conventional games are to be played. Nintendo have taken a risk, and
    > come up with a new way of playing, if it works as well as described,
    > possibly conventional games won't be as enticing.

    don't worry, nintendo loves new ways of playing games.
    Virtual Boy, anyone?
  4. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    >> I really don't get the lukewarm reception and people being more concerned
    >> how conventional games are to be played. Nintendo have taken a risk, and
    >> come up with a new way of playing, if it works as well as described,
    >> possibly conventional games won't be as enticing.
    >
    > don't worry, nintendo loves new ways of playing games.
    > Virtual Boy, anyone?

    Yes, but it's Nintendo risk, not ours. Either it'll work like some of their
    previous ideas, or it will crash and burn like some others.
    Some people like new ideas and a fresh outlook, even if sometimes there's a
    risk of failing, and some people like to be safe and do the same thing
    again, and again, and again.....
  5. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    "ln" <ln@spam.com> a écrit dans le message de
    news:18zlkzxsdkqyu$.9e9kcl8jj07d.dlg@40tude.net...
    > > OK. I feel a lot better about this. The conventional controller
    > > cradle/shell sounds great.
    > >
    > > Craig
    >
    > I really don't get the lukewarm reception and people being more concerned
    > how conventional games are to be played. Nintendo have taken a risk, and
    > come up with a new way of playing, if it works as well as described,
    > possibly conventional games won't be as enticing.
    >
    > Imagine a tennis game, as well as hitting and adding power, you'll be able
    > to add top/back spin in the same fashion as you would with a real tennis
    > racket- with a twist of the handle. If the mechanics of the game work
    well,
    > it'll relegate future versions of Virtua Tennis on the PS3 and Xbox360,
    > however advanced graphically to the level of pong.
    > Maybe the this version of the controller won't be as sophisticated as we
    > wish, but at the very least it's a start and an eye opener for industry on
    > what's possible besides improvements in graphics..
    >
    > ..and on top of that, the back catalog of Nintendo games will be
    available!
    > Genuine innovation in gaming+traditional gaming+value for money, what more
    > do people want?!!

    Yes but changing the way we play games might work for some games, not
    others.
    You example of Tennis could apply as well to Golf, but how about team sport
    games (football, basketball, hockey...) ?
    So for those you still need a traditional controller.

    Antonin
  6. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 15:18:23 +0100, "Antonin PAVIL"
    <antonin@pavil.fslife.co.uk> wrote:

    >Yes but changing the way we play games might work for some games, not
    >others.
    >You example of Tennis could apply as well to Golf, but how about team sport
    >games (football, basketball, hockey...) ?
    >So for those you still need a traditional controller.
    >
    >Antonin
    >
    who says you do?
    --

    gamertag: chrisflynnuk
    Live Line-up: To Be Updated When I Can Be Arsed.
  7. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    >
    > Yes but changing the way we play games might work for some games, not
    > others.

    Its a new console with a new input method - I'm sure some type of games
    will die, but whole new styles of games will surface including improvements
    over old,(FPS, RTS, Sports).

    If people want a conventional system, the Xbox360 and PS3 will be available
    for them. What's the point of Nintendo offering the same? Besides they
    obviously don't have the resources to compete at sony/microsofts game.
    We've got a real choice next generation and it's a good thing IMO.

    > You example of Tennis could apply as well to Golf, but how about team sport
    > games (football, basketball, hockey...) ?

    Why not, you've got the analogue stick in one hand to control player
    movement and the remote for shooting/passing(and that's ignoring the
    buttons).If we want to play a lazy port from the likes of EA, we've also
    got the option of a rumoured cradle adopter for the remote.

    > So for those you still need a traditional controller.
    >
    Its also got a NES-style traditional control, already on the remote.
  8. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    ln wrote:
    >>Yes but changing the way we play games might work for some games, not
    >>others.
    >
    >
    > Its a new console with a new input method - I'm sure some type of games
    > will die, but whole new styles of games will surface including improvements
    > over old,(FPS, RTS, Sports).
    >
    > If people want a conventional system, the Xbox360 and PS3 will be available
    > for them. What's the point of Nintendo offering the same? Besides they
    > obviously don't have the resources to compete at sony/microsofts game.
    > We've got a real choice next generation and it's a good thing IMO.
    >
    >
    >>You example of Tennis could apply as well to Golf, but how about team sport
    >>games (football, basketball, hockey...) ?
    >
    >
    > Why not, you've got the analogue stick in one hand to control player
    > movement and the remote for shooting/passing(and that's ignoring the
    > buttons).If we want to play a lazy port from the likes of EA, we've also
    > got the option of a rumoured cradle adopter for the remote.
    >
    >
    >>So for those you still need a traditional controller.
    >>
    >
    > Its also got a NES-style traditional control, already on the remote.

    It's amzaing how all these people aer crying about all the games they
    won't be able to play. They don't seem to care about all the games they
    haven't even thought of that are now possible with a controller like this.

    "But, but... how will I play Halo? *sniff*"

    joemono
  9. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    "ln" <ln@spam.com> wrote in message
    news:18zlkzxsdkqyu$.9e9kcl8jj07d.dlg@40tude.net...
    > If the mechanics of the game work well,
    > it'll relegate future versions of Virtua Tennis on the PS3 and Xbox360,
    > however advanced graphically to the level of pong.

    No it won't. People still play and enjoy the likes of Tony Hawks on a
    controller, even though peripherals like dance mats and snowboards are
    available for games.
  10. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    > It's amzaing how all these people aer crying about all the games they
    > won't be able to play. They don't seem to care about all the games they
    > haven't even thought of that are now possible with a controller like this.
    >
    > "But, but... how will I play Halo? *sniff*"
    >
    > joemono

    Exactly,
    Looking at games charts is proof enough, people just want more of the same.

    And what's there to complain about - if it doesn't live up to its
    potential, we won't buy it, simple. At least it's given people something to
    talk about besides - OMG DID YOU SEE THE TRAILER. MGS4 and RIDGE RACER
    ROKZ!!
  11. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    Michael Cargill wrote:
    > "ln" <ln@spam.com> wrote in message
    > news:18zlkzxsdkqyu$.9e9kcl8jj07d.dlg@40tude.net...
    >
    >>If the mechanics of the game work well,
    >>it'll relegate future versions of Virtua Tennis on the PS3 and Xbox360,
    >>however advanced graphically to the level of pong.
    >
    >
    > No it won't. People still play and enjoy the likes of Tony Hawks on a
    > controller, even though peripherals like dance mats and snowboards are
    > available for games.
    >
    >

    Do you find playing DDR/Samba/Donkey Konga etc. etc. any fun with a
    joypad? As much as people rave about VT, there's really very little to
    it, even Super Tennis on SNES was more varied and challenging. People
    might still enjoy playing it with a pad, but compared to how it /could/
    be played it'll could seem fairly backwards in comparison. Depends on
    how such a thing'd be executed, but I know which way I'd rather be
    playing, if it were possible.

    --
    [ste]
    "Throw me your matches 'cause I like to burn stuff"
  12. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    It's amzaing how all these people aer crying about all the games they won't
    be able to play. They don't seem to care about all the games they haven't
    even thought of that are now possible with a controller like this.

    "But, but... how will I play Halo? *sniff*"

    joemono

    _______________________________

    What games will people be able to play that they can't play now? I find it
    hard to get excited about games no one has thought of.

    What about people who never play sports games since sports should be played
    for real?.

    Craig
  13. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    In article <1c8n86z5c9fkq.1vbhhwrn3hdwl.dlg@40tude.net>, ln wrote:
    > > It's amzaing how all these people aer crying about all the games they
    >> won't be able to play. They don't seem to care about all the games they
    >> haven't even thought of that are now possible with a controller like this.
    >>
    >> "But, but... how will I play Halo? *sniff*"
    >>
    >> joemono
    >
    > Exactly,
    > Looking at games charts is proof enough, people just want more of the same.

    I think it's more a case of "the market is full of boringly similar
    titles so people stick with brands they know."

    Choobs

    --
    Sir Chewbury S. Gubbins
    "Dreamers come and go but a dream's forever"
    Gaming Diary: http://www.nelefa.org
    "Roll for initiative, monkey boy!"
  14. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    >> Exactly,
    >> Looking at games charts is proof enough, people just want more of the same.
    >
    > I think it's more a case of "the market is full of boringly similar
    > titles so people stick with brands they know."
    >
    > Choobs

    Probably, but some of the more lazy sequels rocket up the charts, people
    actively hunt them out. It's not a case of "oh well its all boring, I may
    as well buy another FIFA game".

    I'm not trying to be a snob about, I was the same with the Tekken games.
    But seeing people moan about Nintento's fresh approach while others are
    going crazy over yet another cinematic trailer for yet another sequel on
    the PS3/XBOX is quite disheartening.
  15. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    "Ben Allen" <"ben.allen"@\"your.tonsils\"btinternet.com> a écrit dans le
    message de news:dgjui1$dcm$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...

    > > I am really sick of those people who claim there is no fun beyond Mario,
    > > Zelda and Nintendo, and constantly think they are entitled to impose
    their
    > > views as being universal.
    >
    > No-ones claiming that here
    >

    "Looking at games charts is proof enough, people just want more of the
    same."
    "the market is full of boringly similar titles so people stick with brands
    they know."

    That, plus other remarks over time about "those stupid casual gamer who no
    nothin about true gaming and who buy playstations".
    All the attitude in general of some people who constantly have nothing but
    contempt for people playing on playstation or xbox.
    Not that I feel targeted, console-wise I only own a gamecube and a GBA, and
    I previoulsy had a megadrive, snes and dreamcast.


    > > It never really occur to you that different people have different tastes
    ?
    > > That the world is not split in two separate blocks of "I just want
    realistic
    > > games" and "All I want is fun/weird games made by Nintendo" ? Some
    people
    > > like fun/weird games and realistic ones AS WELL.
    >
    > Well Nintendo make 'their' games, 3rd parties provide the other, both do
    > exist, even if they are only EA titles.
    >
    >
    > > The one thing that some Nintendo fanboys do not understand (or don't
    want to
    > > understand) is that the reason why the playstation is successfull is not
    bec
    > > ause of GTA or MGS or GT, but because there are so many games on this
    > > platform that every one can find what he/she likes. Did it never occur
    to
    > > people here that there are many xbox owner that never played Halo, or
    > > playstation owner that never played GTA MGS, DMC, GT or Tekken ?
    >
    > Its 'owners' by the way, and this may well be true, but that doesn't
    > mean the consoles offer anything different or exciting.
    >

    My point here is, yes you could be true about nintendo bringing something
    entirely different, but why would I have to buy two consoles?

    Personally I can afford it, but for the others, what if they they want to
    enjoy both new usual type of games?
    if the revolution could offer new revolutionary games and a wide third party
    support, woudn't it be beter?


    > > How many times I got frustrated on my gamecube because I either could
    not
    > > find a game I want (for example a ligh gun game) or have to buy the only
    one
    > > available (Capcom Vs SNK for example).
    >
    > If you don't like what it offers play on a different console, simple!
    >
    > > How many times did I realise there was a game genre that until recently
    I
    > > did not like and then realised my tastes changed (FPS, racing to take
    two
    > > examples) and unfortunately, less choice on the gamecube than on any
    other
    > > patform, or only average titles.
    >
    > Again, if you want main stream titles, use a different console
    >

    I bought the gamecube (unlike the N64 that I decided to skip) because at the
    time I felt I would enjoy Nintendo games while at the same time there would
    be a lot more third party support than on the N64, which it delivered to a
    certain extent.


    > > So yes I am worried about third party support, unlike some guys here who
    > > don't like third party games and ONLY Nintendo or second party/third
    party
    > > exclusive games (but only when they are with Nintendo, because the day
    Rare
    > > or Fator 5 leave the boat, then all of a sudden everyone find their
    games
    > > were not that good after all).
    >
    > Even EA have said they are very excited to be working with the
    > Revolutions controller.
    >
    > > Is is not just about the controller, it is the whole thing: the
    revolution
    > > to be less powerfull + the historical bad relationship of Nintendo with
    > > third parties, since the end of the SNES, and now this weird controller
    with
    > > only 2 buttons.
    >
    > So you lack the ability to count then?

    As far as I know on the main controller you have only two buttons (I do not
    count the start/select ones) and the 'a' and 'b' ones seem to be only for
    NES games).
    So OK, 4 buttons then with the 'nunchaku' extension.

    > > So I welcome the new controller and gameplay, but just because a new
    breed
    > > of games appear that does not mean I am bored with all the current ones.
    > > And unlike people here I DO like sequels, because when you think about
    it a
    > > sequel is just a sequel for the one guy who played the prequels.
    > > For others, an MGS'4' or GT'5' will be just an MGS'1' or GT'1', only
    with
    > > updated graphics, and that is better than emulation to play old games
    with
    > > outdated graphics.
    >
    > You genuinely think that GT5 was anymore fun that GT4? or that Fifa 2020
    > will play much differently to Fifa 2005?

    Like I said, sequels are only boring for those who played previous versions
    of the game.
    But sequels are not just targeted to people who played all previous titles
    of the license, but as well for people who discover it.
    The guy who will buy a PS3 and never owned a PS1 or PS2 before may be very
    happy to play a nice version of GT/GTA/Tekken/MGS/Fifa/NFL/NHL/... that uses
    all PS3 capabilities, rather than having to play old PS1/PS2 versions.
    So yes the game won't be more fun, but with similar gameplay and better
    graphics it won't be less fun either, but still nicer.

    My overall point is that some always see sequels as the same game over and
    over again, I see them as a way to make the same game available to new
    gamers on a new platform, and doing that while exploiting the new gen
    capabilities.
    Now if some people buy every Fifa game that is released, this is their
    choice.
    There is also a lot of people who skip some releases, for example whoever
    played GT3 os PS2 may have decided to skip GT4, but will be please with a
    GT5.

    So having sequels is not that bad either. Off course we need new games as
    well otherwise over time it would get boring.

    > > And talking about sequels and boredom: what about Mario Party 7, the
    > > upcoming Zelda '8' (if you do not count GB and GBA games), Super Mario
    (5?
    > > 6? 7?).
    >
    > Mario Party yer, i think thats pretty much just regurgitated but you
    > would have to be stupid about making the same comparison between the
    > Zelda and Mario Games, they have changed so much with age, and benefited
    > from the changes in technology, I mean Zelda 1 plays so much differently
    > to Wind Waker same with Super Mario 1 and Sunshine. You cant say the
    > same for GT
    >

    Yes but the comparison is not entirely fair. Mario and Zelda changed a lot
    because they went from 2D to 3D, and I rarely find that games who went from
    2D to 3D kept their original gameplay.
    On the other hand, there wasn't a Sony:Microsoft console at the time of
    theNES (I think for Sony there was the MSX but I'm not sure it applies here)
    so we never experienced a 2D Halo or a 2D GT or Tekken.

    I only played Zelda WW and after I played OOT, and I was retrospectively
    disappointed about how few changes there were in WW compared to OOT.
    Same objects (boomerang, bomb, arrows, hammer,...) same puzzles (reflect the
    light with the shield to open something) same monsters (bats, skulls), same
    sound effects, same story oover and over again wit hthe same bad guy
    (Ganondorf). I mean I understand you have to keep some stuff from the
    previous game but I really felt Nintendo did not much effort to bring
    variety in the puzzles and situations.
    And the new zelda, apart from the improved gfx, what will it bring ? Well
    there is still the day/nigh thing and the transformation int wolf and so on,
    but the day/nigh thing reminds me of the present/future worlds in OOT.

    > Nintendo's new console is offering a CHOICE, people who want to play the
    > new GT, go buy a PS3, for people who want something different, Nintendo
    > are offering that. It doesn't really matter how powerful (or less
    > powerful) the Revolution will be as it won't be running PGR3 at 30fps.
    >

    Yes but a lot of people like the idea of new type of games and at the same
    time want to be able to play sequels of some license they liked.
    So all of them having to buy a PS3/Xbox plus a revolution ? Well if the
    revolution is so cheap why not, otherwise people will have to make choices.
  16. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    Antonin PAVIL wrote:
    > "Ben Allen" <"ben.allen"@\"your.tonsils\"btinternet.com> a écrit dans le
    > message de news:dgjui1$dcm$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
    >
    >
    >>>I am really sick of those people who claim there is no fun beyond Mario,
    >>>Zelda and Nintendo, and constantly think they are entitled to impose
    >>>their views as being universal.
    >>
    >>No-ones claiming that here
    >>
    >
    > "Looking at games charts is proof enough, people just want more of the
    > same."
    > "the market is full of boringly similar titles so people stick with brands
    > they know."
    >

    What has that got to do with your "no fun beyond Mario, Zelda and
    Nintendo" comment?

    >
    > My point here is, yes you could be true about nintendo bringing something
    > entirely different, but why would I have to buy two consoles?
    >
    > Personally I can afford it, but for the others, what if they they want to
    > enjoy both new usual type of games?
    > if the revolution could offer new revolutionary games and a wide third party
    > support, woudn't it be beter?
    >

    What makes you think it's not going to? OK, it's fair enough to guess
    that things could quickly go the same way as with the Gamecube re: 3rd
    party support, but initially at least it seema like Nintendo are keen
    for 3rd party support.

    >
    > As far as I know on the main controller you have only two buttons (I do not
    > count the start/select ones) and the 'a' and 'b' ones seem to be only for
    > NES games).
    > So OK, 4 buttons then with the 'nunchaku' extension.
    >

    Or the same buttons as a GC pad if you plug a GC pad in, or if you plug
    the remote into a shell of a pad-with-more-buttons-available setup which
    is apparently going to happen too.

    > My overall point is that some always see sequels as the same game over and
    > over again, I see them as a way to make the same game available to new
    > gamers on a new platform, and doing that while exploiting the new gen
    > capabilities.

    So what do you see as the point of releasing the same game over and over
    on the same platform then, once or maybe twice each year?

    >
    > Yes but the comparison is not entirely fair. Mario and Zelda changed a lot
    > because they went from 2D to 3D, and I rarely find that games who went from
    > 2D to 3D kept their original gameplay.

    EA's NHL & Madden series didn't change particularly much gameplay wise
    in their transition from 2D to 3D.


    > I only played Zelda WW and after I played OOT, and I was retrospectively
    > disappointed about how few changes there were in WW compared to OOT.
    > Same objects (boomerang, bomb, arrows, hammer,...) same puzzles (reflect the
    > light with the shield to open something) same monsters (bats, skulls), same
    > sound effects, same story oover and over again wit hthe same bad guy
    > (Ganondorf). I mean I understand you have to keep some stuff from the
    > previous game but I really felt Nintendo did not much effort to bring
    > variety in the puzzles and situations.

    Yeah, I agree. It was a toally different setting with the islands and
    the sailing, but other than that it was mainly the same game mechanics
    as OoT.

    >
    > Yes but a lot of people like the idea of new type of games and at the same
    > time want to be able to play sequels of some license they liked.
    > So all of them having to buy a PS3/Xbox plus a revolution ? Well if the
    > revolution is so cheap why not, otherwise people will have to make choices.
    >

    Depends on what people think really. If they want the next EA Sports
    game with better graphics then they'll go for that, if they don't care
    that it's essentially exactly the same game as the one they have then to
    me that's their stupidity for paying over the odds for something they
    already have. But you could say that about many different types of game
    on any platform....

    --
    [ste]
    "Throw me your matches 'cause I like to burn stuff"
  17. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    > Yes, but not everyone falls in a category "all nintendo/ new gameplay" or
    > "PS3/Xbox360 for old gameplay".
    > Some may want to have both, and not everyone will be able to afford an Xbox
    > or PS3 plus a revolution.
    >
    Your logic beggars belief, really. So Nintendo try something new and it's a
    bad thing because you might want it as well as a PS3/XBOX360.
    What about if you want Halo and Gran Turismo, did you think of that?
    I suppose to save us the hassle and expense, all 3 consoles should be
    exactly the same. ;)

    > So if Nintendo could make a console able to support both new type of games
    > and current games as well it would be better.

    IT DOES! A cradle has been discussed/confirmed(?) by Nintendo to allow a
    Gamecube style control possible.

    >
    > As for being a Nintendo group, that does not mean we have to agree with
    > everything Nintendo does.

    Of course not, no-one said people should all agree. I personally think the
    Gamecube has been a let down overall, not enough games.

    > And after all there is speculation about all systems, not everyone likes
    > necessarily what Sony or Microsoft will offer (even in xbox or playstation
    > newsgroup) and they talk about it in the respective newgroup.

    Exactly! But I'm not going into PS groups saying "people don't see beyond
    MGS / Gran Turismo" As I said in previous post, "that would be stupid" It's
    basically trolling, and plainly not true. Get it?

    > So if I was, say, anti-nintendo (which I'm not, I own a GC and a GBA) I
    > would get the point: go post somewhere else.
    > But if I am curious/worried about some stuff nintendo does, I am not going
    > to post my concerns in uk.games.video.xbox.

    I don't think people have a problem with you or any of us having worries
    about the controller.
  18. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    "[ste parker]" <imaginey@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:3p3gujF8i37hU1@individual.net...
    >
    > Do you find playing DDR/Samba/Donkey Konga etc. etc. any fun with a
    > joypad? As much as people rave about VT, there's really very little to
    > it, even Super Tennis on SNES was more varied and challenging. People
    > might still enjoy playing it with a pad, but compared to how it /could/
    > be played it'll could seem fairly backwards in comparison. Depends on
    > how such a thing'd be executed, but I know which way I'd rather be
    > playing, if it were possible.

    It might well be better, but that wouldn't make more conventional pads
    obsolete. Whilst a steering wheel is the best way to play a driving game, I
    still have no problems playing driving games with the D-pad on a controller.
    The same goes for playing FPS's - it is far, far better on a mouse and
    keyboard but I have no problems playing them on a controller.
  19. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    "[ste parker]" <imaginey@hotmail.com> a écrit dans le message de
    news:3p5kvmF8haoqU1@individual.net...
    > > "Looking at games charts is proof enough, people just want more of the
    > > same."
    > > "the market is full of boringly similar titles so people stick with
    brands
    > > they know."
    > >
    >
    > What has that got to do with your "no fun beyond Mario, Zelda and
    > Nintendo" comment?

    It is more a reaction about the snobbish attitude in general in the nintendo
    'world' that consist in always criticizing people choices and charts,
    because they differ from theirs.

    You like MGS/GT/GTA? you enjoyed a game that is successful and in in the
    charts? But... but... you are not a TRUE gamer! Shame on you!
    TRUE gamers play only games that do not sell well, because if they do, they
    are necessarily boring (but if a nintendo game sells well we forgive
    nintendo).

    I just reacted because some people, because they are excited about the new
    possibilities, do not understand that some others while excited at new
    gameplay may want as well to be able to play 'usual' games as well and may
    welcome the though of a 'standard' controller shell to plug into the
    'remote'.

    > > if the revolution could offer new revolutionary games and a wide third
    party
    > > support, woudn't it be beter?
    > >
    >
    > What makes you think it's not going to? OK, it's fair enough to guess
    > that things could quickly go the same way as with the Gamecube re: 3rd
    > party support, but initially at least it seema like Nintendo are keen
    > for 3rd party support.

    Of course, at this point without knowing who will support the revolution,
    and see any footage of revolution games, we are not sure that it's not going
    to, but we are not sure it's going to either.
    Now what do people do when they don't know something? They speculate about
    it. Specutlation don't always have to be positive.

    However I can understand that with the constant "Nintendo is gonna
    dieeeee..." stance of some people, some may grow tired af any negative
    comment about nintendo or the revolution.

    > > As far as I know on the main controller you have only two buttons (I do
    not
    > > count the start/select ones) and the 'a' and 'b' ones seem to be only
    for
    > > NES games).
    > > So OK, 4 buttons then with the 'nunchaku' extension.
    > >
    >
    > Or the same buttons as a GC pad if you plug a GC pad in, or if you plug
    > the remote into a shell of a pad-with-more-buttons-available setup which
    > is apparently going to happen too.

    I am more interested in the 'shell' thing, as according to Perry Kaplan the
    GC controllers will be used for GC games only, not revolution ones.
    I hope it will be designed to accomodate not only GC but SNES and N64 games,
    so that we don't need to buy an extra 'SNES shell' or a 'N6 shell'.

    > > My overall point is that some always see sequels as the same game over
    and
    > > over again, I see them as a way to make the same game available to new
    > > gamers on a new platform, and doing that while exploiting the new gen
    > > capabilities.
    >
    > So what do you see as the point of releasing the same game over and over
    > on the same platform then, once or maybe twice each year?
    >

    Yes true. But I think it is still usefull. The one guy who did not buy the
    first game may want the new one because it may bring, even if few, more
    features.
    And for the rest, you can buy the first game at a reduced price (I buy most
    of my games preowned, but some like to buy only new games).

    > >
    > > Yes but the comparison is not entirely fair. Mario and Zelda changed a
    lot
    > > because they went from 2D to 3D, and I rarely find that games who went
    from
    > > 2D to 3D kept their original gameplay.
    >
    > EA's NHL & Madden series didn't change particularly much gameplay wise
    > in their transition from 2D to 3D.

    Yes but when you talk about sport games, there is not so much you can do
    about the core gameplay.
    Football will always be about 11 players-a-side kicking a ball with their
    legs and heads and two goalkeepers at each end.
    You can add 5/6/7-a-side games, or change the background (FIFA/NFL/NBA
    street) to vary a bit, but you are constrained by the very definition of the
    game itself.
  20. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    "ln" <ln@spam.com> a écrit dans le message de
    news:x158cmy6t7mk$.1mdxcwe9q9uhe.dlg@40tude.net...
    >
    > > Yes, but not everyone falls in a category "all nintendo/ new gameplay"
    or
    > > "PS3/Xbox360 for old gameplay".
    > > Some may want to have both, and not everyone will be able to afford an
    Xbox
    > > or PS3 plus a revolution.
    > >
    > Your logic beggars belief, really. So Nintendo try something new and it's
    a
    > bad thing because you might want it as well as a PS3/XBOX360.
    > What about if you want Halo and Gran Turismo, did you think of that?
    > I suppose to save us the hassle and expense, all 3 consoles should be
    > exactly the same. ;)

    No but I would like a console with a decent amount of games and third party
    games.
    For me the problem with the cube is not so much quantity but the fact some
    genres are non or under represented.

    For example in racing games, if you want an arcade game, all you have is
    burnout. A more realistic one? Then R:Racing or nothing. A compromise? then
    you have NFS or SRS, but unfortunately you have to drive only at night and
    like 'chavvy' games.


    > > So if Nintendo could make a console able to support both new type of
    games
    > > and current games as well it would be better.
    >
    > IT DOES! A cradle has been discussed/confirmed(?) by Nintendo to allow a
    > Gamecube style control possible.
    >

    Yes I know but my first post was precisely in reaction to someone who seemed
    not to understand the need to this shell extension.
    And then others reacted by saying, in substance "who cares if traditional
    games disappear".
    And so on...

    All that to say that I am pleased this extension exists.
    Now if it turns out that not only the revolution is successfull with a lot
    of third party titles, and that third party developpers manage to use the
    new controller for all games, then even better.
    But I like the idea to have a traditional controller as a 'backup', in case
    thing go wrong and few support the new controller.


    Ant.
  21. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 19:11:24 +0100, "Antonin PAVIL"
    <antonin@pavil.fslife.co.uk> wrote:


    >But I like the idea to have a traditional controller as a 'backup', in case
    >thing go wrong and few support the new controller.
    >
    >
    >Ant.
    >
    which is exactly what nintendo are doing (even though just about every
    major developer has been singing the praises of the new controller)

    so why the flippin heck are you going absolutely, rabidly schizoid
    over what is currently nothing but a hypothetical situation?
    --

    gamertag: chrisflynnuk
    Live Line-up: To Be Updated When I Can Be Arsed.
  22. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    "Chris F" <chris@asifimtellingyoulot.com> wrote in message
    news:qmcri15139873b0n4mrokgvrd50jvc4prm@4ax.com...
    >
    > so why the flippin heck are you going absolutely, rabidly schizoid
    > over what is currently nothing but a hypothetical situation?

    I would have a guess it is in reaction to the usual (and completely
    predictable) response from all the Nintendo fans who always claim that the
    latest thing they have announced is suddenly the saviour of the world.

    It isn't so much in this newsgroup, but that 'In' bloke did sound rather
    fanboyish to me at first.
  23. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    > No but I would like a console with a decent amount of games and third party
    > games.

    XBOX360 and PS3 practically guarantees you that. What is the issue here?!

    > For me the problem with the cube is not so much quantity but the fact some
    > genres are non or under represented.
    >

    I really don't get what you're getting at! Hope you didn't buy a cube, I
    guess. If you're pissed at Nintendo for letting you down, don't buy the
    next one from Nintendo. It's that simple. If PS3 looks tempting buy that.

    > For example in racing games, if you want an arcade game, all you have is
    > burnout. A more realistic one? Then R:Racing or nothing. A compromise? then
    > you have NFS or SRS, but unfortunately you have to drive only at night and
    > like 'chavvy' games.

    In a perfect world the console you purchase will have every game you
    want..... but it's a compromise, if one console has more of what you want,
    buy that one.

    Nintendo are desperate for our money, just the same as the others. Maybe,
    they're trying something different in hope of avoiding the fruitless task
    of direct competition with PS3 and XBOX. I dunno, whatever it is, I'll just
    pick the one I like best, if that's ok with everyone!
  24. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    In article <dgkamg$2rs$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>, Antonin PAVIL wrote:
    >
    > Yes I know but my first post was precisely in reaction to someone who seemed
    > not to understand the need to this shell extension.

    No it wasn't - your response was to me and all I said is that sequels
    fill the charts because there are so many of them. It's you that went off
    on a giant exploding powder-puff attack.

    Choobs

    --
    Sir Chewbury S. Gubbins
    "Dreamers come and go but a dream's forever"
    Gaming Diary: http://www.nelefa.org
    "Roll for initiative, monkey boy!"
  25. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    "WildStyle24_7" <wildstyle247@gmail.com> wrote in message
    news:1127122015.839400.51450@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
    >
    > ln wrote:
    >>
    >> Imagine a tennis game, as well as hitting and adding power, you'll be
    >> able
    >> to add top/back spin in the same fashion as you would with a real tennis
    >> racket- with a twist of the handle.
    >>
    > Or Soul Calibur where you use the controller to actually weild the
    > sword...
    >

    Has anyone considered that the household ornaments may take a pumelling if
    you take this "physical" controller manipulation to extremes.......

    I also hate to think what passers by may think if they catch a glimpse of a
    guy giving it a little too much repetitive wrist action through the lounge
    window ;-)


    --
    Fik
  26. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    Dan Mazurowski wrote:

    >>I really don't get the lukewarm reception
    >
    >
    > Remember how badly everyone ragged on the DS? The "gimmicky" design?
    > And now that there are a few good titles out there, what do people say?
    >
    > Gamers can be just as conservative as any other group. They fear what
    > they don't understand. It took a while for them to understand the DS,
    > but now they get it. Right now, they don't understand the Revolution.
    > Once we have good games that use it, they'll accept it. Well, except
    > the trolls.
    >

    I agree, people ragging on a a company that is making a genuine effort
    with creativity seems very strange to me and I think says more about the
    people posting than Nintendo. The only criticisms I hear are by people
    who haven't bothered to imagine or investigate the possibilities offered
    "How will I play Halo?", "I'm not going to wave my arms around" etc. -
    when it's clear that an fps would be more than perfect for this and that
    it's proven that very little movement is needed at all.
    Sure it's funny looking but ask yourself? Do you have a closed or open
    mind when it comes to new things? Are you going to become one of those
    old people who sits and complains about new fangled technology and how
    it used to be?

    The only criticism that I have is that it's a bit sterile looking - but
    since Nintendo's last 'fun' looking console wasn't exactly a success in
    comparison that's a logical move.
  27. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    "WildStyle24_7" <wildstyle247@gmail.com> writes:

    > Or Soul Calibur where you use the controller to actually weild the
    > sword...

    My kids' play room will be a shambles if the Tennis idea comes to
    fruition, much less Soul Calibur Revolution...

    Nick

    --
    #include<stdio.h> /* sigmask (sig.c) 20041028 PUBLIC DOMAIN */
    int main(c,v)char *v;{return !c?putchar(* /* cc -o sig sig.c */
    v-1)&&main(0,v+1):main(0,"Ojdl!Wbshjti!=ojdlAwbshjti/psh?\v\1");}
  28. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    "Dan Mazurowski" <kingsmedley@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:1127117991.687308.246710@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
    >
    >> I really don't get the lukewarm reception
    >
    > Remember how badly everyone ragged on the DS? The "gimmicky" design?
    > And now that there are a few good titles out there, what do people say?

    Considering that 44% of all game sales in Japan last week were DS titles,
    I'd hardly call it a gimmick anymore. ;-) I'm not sure if the gaming press
    has changed it's tune, but people are speaking with their pocketbooks.
  29. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    "ln" <ln@spam.com> a écrit dans le message de
    news:dqaps93ns05x.elhptg9u7mka.dlg@40tude.net...
    > > No but I would like a console with a decent amount of games and third
    party
    > > games.
    >
    > XBOX360 and PS3 practically guarantees you that. What is the issue here?!
    >
    > > For me the problem with the cube is not so much quantity but the fact
    some
    > > genres are non or under represented.
    > >
    >
    > I really don't get what you're getting at! Hope you didn't buy a cube, I
    > guess. If you're pissed at Nintendo for letting you down, don't buy the
    > next one from Nintendo. It's that simple. If PS3 looks tempting buy that.
    >
    > > For example in racing games, if you want an arcade game, all you have is
    > > burnout. A more realistic one? Then R:Racing or nothing. A compromise?
    then
    > > you have NFS or SRS, but unfortunately you have to drive only at night
    and
    > > like 'chavvy' games.
    >
    > In a perfect world the console you purchase will have every game you
    > want..... but it's a compromise, if one console has more of what you want,
    > buy that one.
    >
    > Nintendo are desperate for our money, just the same as the others. Maybe,
    > they're trying something different in hope of avoiding the fruitless task
    > of direct competition with PS3 and XBOX. I dunno, whatever it is, I'll
    just
    > pick the one I like best, if that's ok with everyone!

    Off course I am not dreaming of the perfect console that would have all
    games. I know perfectly well that even if you buy the most successfull
    console (namely the playstation so far) there would be games that I don't
    have.

    OK we will have just to "agree to disagree" on this.

    You are OK with a console that is so revolutionary that it could be almost
    exclusively dedicated to new gameplay.
    I just want something with a FAIR third party support, even if the weakest
    of the thre consoles, on top of revolutionary games, hence I am happy with
    the 'shell controller' option.
    For example the xbox, while having sold more or less like the gamecube
    worldwide had twice as much games released.

    The gamecube did not do so bad, but I would never have bought a N64 for
    example for this reason.
    I just hope the revolution will follow more the gamecube path than the N64
    one.

    Antonin
  30. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    "Sir Chewbury Gubbins" <chewbury.gubbins@nelefa.org> a écrit dans le message
    de news:109203-djs.ln1@cadmium.nelefa.org...
    > In article <dgkamg$2rs$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>, Antonin PAVIL wrote:
    > >
    > > Yes I know but my first post was precisely in reaction to someone who
    seemed
    > > not to understand the need to this shell extension.
    >
    > No it wasn't - your response was to me and all I said is that sequels
    > fill the charts because there are so many of them. It's you that went off
    > on a giant exploding powder-puff attack.
    >
    > Choobs
    >
    > --
    > Sir Chewbury S. Gubbins
    > "Dreamers come and go but a dream's forever"
    > Gaming Diary: http://www.nelefa.org
    > "Roll for initiative, monkey boy!"

    Yes I apologize for that, but I wanted to answer to the two/three posts in
    answer to mine, without targeting someone in particular.
    What annoyed me is the tone that was used in answer to my post, mocking the
    fact that some people might have doubt about the controller.

    I am excited as well by the new controller, but not entirely convinced yet
    until I saw some REAL game footage.
    The video is promising but it is a commercial, and although it appears from
    the presentation at the TGS that it was quite precise (and if so many people
    said they were impressed with it I trust them), I still need to see the real
    thing rather than actors pretending to play with it.

    In due time I may be wrong, and it may turn out that games will be easy to
    adapt to it, or I may be right and it may turn out that some game really
    cannot be adapted to it, in which case we will be happy to have a 'classic'
    controller option.

    Antonin.
  31. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    > OK we will have just to "agree to disagree" on this.
    >
    > You are OK with a console that is so revolutionary that it could be almost
    > exclusively dedicated to new gameplay.

    I never said that. I'm not analysing the whole package or reviewing the
    final product. The new controller caught my imagination, I wanted to speak
    about it, that's it. I suppose I'm more interested in the controller at the
    moment, rather than worrying about what makes a viable system.

    > I just want something with a FAIR third party support, even if the weakest
    > of the thre consoles, on top of revolutionary games, hence I am happy with
    > the 'shell controller' option.

    I think most people will expect at least that. Anyway that's Nintendo's
    concern not ours.

    To be honest I don't think we disagree on anything, its just we're talking
    about different things. You're saying what you want/expect in a console,
    and I'm caught up solely on how great the controller sounds.
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