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Understanding the Revolution Controller

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September 17, 2005 12:42:36 AM

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http://cube.ign.com/articles/651/651559p1.html

Understanding the Revolution Controller
If you use two pointers, can four people still play? How will Revolution
handle more conventional games? We've got the facts.
by Matt Casamassina
September 16, 2005 - Nintendo's Revolution controller has set the videogame
industry abuzz with excitement and in some cases confusion. One glance
around popular community message boards proves that gamers are both blown
away by the possibilities and simultaneously scratching their collective
head about how the peripheral might interact with more traditional software.
The device is so dramatically different from the accepted norm that we'd be
surprised if readers weren't thrown for an initial double-take. But once the
details about the new controller sink in, it's not difficult to see the
gameplay possibilities lurking just beyond the horizon.


We've combed over all the controller details and put together a handy list
of facts about the peripheral that, we believe, will help clear up any
misconceptions about what it does and doesn't do. As readers will see below,
the Revolution's input mechanism is thoroughly flexible and preemptively
ready for any type of gameplay challenge.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q: What exactly is so special about the Revolution controller?

A: The Revolution controller may look like a stylish television remote, but
there's a lot more to the device than its glossy exterior suggests. The
remote-like peripheral, which has been called the "free-hand style
controller" and "pointer" by Nintendo, interacts with two motion sensors
placed on the left and right sides of a user's television. The marriage
transforms the pointer into a virtual wand of sorts, enabling users to move
objects and characters in games simply by moving the peripheral. The sensors
read the pointer's every move in real-time space. They can detect up, down,
left and right motion, and also translate forward and backward depth. The
controller's sensors also recognize twisting, rotating and tilting
movements. In short, any motion made by arms and wrists can be translated to
Revolution games.





The free-hand-style unit also comes standard with three gameplay-specific
face buttons, three menu-specific buttons, a D-Pad and an underbelly
trigger. In addition, the unit's bottom shell can be removed, revealing a
slot for expansion peripherals. Nintendo has several add-ons planned, some
of which we'll detail below. The pointer is completely wireless and features
built-in force feedback. Gamers can rotate the free-hand-style unit on its
side to play NES software on Revolution.

Q: Can you give us an example of how it might work in a game?

A: Sure. Imagine a fishing game in which the pointer essentially becomes the
fisherman's pole. Gamers simply make a casting motion to send the line
flying and pull back on the pointer to tug a fish upward once it has taken
the bait. In a sequel to Luigi's Mansion, the pointer might be used as a
flashlight. Gamers point to the area they want to illuminate and Luigi's
flashlight spotlights it. Voila. In a tennis game, the pointer becomes the
racquet. Players swing the device as they would a racquet to smash tennis
balls back at opponents. The list goes on and on and the options only
increase when the peripheral's expansion functionality is considered.

Q: What kinds of expansions are planned?

A: Wide assortments of peripherals are possible, but thus far Nintendo has
only officially confirmed two of them. The first is an analog stick/trigger
unit that Nintendo has dubbed the "nunchuck-style controller." The second is
a conventional controller cradle/shell. Nintendo has also indicated that it
might like to explore other expansions. It used Donkey Kong style bongos and
a light gun as examples.

Q: What does the nunchuck analog/trigger unit do?

A: The small, ergonomic peripheral attaches to the bottom of the pointer by
way of a short cable, and is easily grasped in one hand. The device features
a single analog stick on its top side and two triggers, labeled Z trigger 1
and 2, underneath. The unit extends the functionality of the pointer and
really shows its usefulness in certain genres, particularly first-person
shooters. Imagine the possibilities. With the analog stick in one hand,
users move Samus Aran around the environments in Metroid Prime 3, freeing up
the pointer to act as the heroine's gun. The result is a level of control so
responsive and accurate that its closest rival is a PC/mouse configuration.
Incidentally, Retro Studios created a demo of this very setup that was at
TGS 2005 previewed to a select group of editors, IGN included, and it was
very impressive.

"Our current plan is for each [Revolution] hardware system to be sold with
the free-hand-style controller and the nunchuck-style expansion controller,"
confirms Nintendo of America's senior director of public relations, Beth
Llewelyn.

Q: What does the conventional controller cradle/shell do?

A: This add-on makes it possible to play Revolution games in a more
traditional manner. The shell is designed to look and function like accepted
"regular" controllers, such as the Wave Bird. After its bottom casing is
removed, the Revolution's free-hand-style remote is inserted into a gap in
the middle of the controller shell. Gamers can then use the shell as they
would a traditional controller, with a notable difference: the pointer
remote's sensory functionality remains active. As a result, gamers get the
best of both worlds: more buttons and two analog sticks along with
motion-sensing operations. In a Revolution version of Madden Football,
gamers might be able to use the combo to control players with the shell's
analog sticks and execute pinpoint passes with the pointer's improved
accuracy.





Nintendo has not yet released official imagery of what the controller shell
might look like. However, we've created a mock-up (above) based on what we
know of its functionality. The real controller shell is likely to connect to
the free-hand-style pointer in a very similar fashion. Please note that we
realize our model is not entirely to scale, but this is the best we could do
on short notice.





Q: What do all of the buttons on the free-hand-style pointer do?


A: The main controller features a D-Pad, an on/off switch and several
different face buttons, three of which are dedicated solely to gameplay.
Directly below the unit's D-Pad is an oversized A button. Farther down are
two more buttons. In officially released screenshots, these buttons were
labeled "a" and "b" respectively. However, when Nintendo president Satoru
Iwata held the controller up at his Tokyo Game Show 2005 keynote speech, the
buttons were clearly labeled "X" and "Y." The buttons were also labeled "X"
and "Y" in Nintendo's Revolution controller promo video, which suggests that
the final product is much more likely to use the letters.
"The [Revolution controllers shown] are still prototypes so there may be
slight changes in the final versions," says Nintendo's Llewelyn.

It should be noted that the oversize A button is used for primary action
functionality. It might be used to make a character jump in a first-person
shooter, for example. The X and Y buttons are more likely to be used when
the controller is turned on its side in order to accommodate classics NES
games.



Located in the middle of the controller are three menu-ready buttons:
select, home, and start (from left to right). Nintendo has not yet explained
what the home button is used for, but it is likely to bring up a
Revolution's central operations page -- something akin to Xbox Live. From
here, we suspect gamers will be able to manage their downloaded software or
go online, among other things.

The only other thing of note on the face of the controller are the blue LED
indicators, bottom, that show what controller port the unit is wirelessly
using.

The underbelly of the controller features an ergonomic indent directly
opposite the top's D-Pad. This area houses the B trigger, which is also
considered a primary action button. This button, easily accessed by players,
might be used to fire a weapon in a first-person shooter or to grasp an
object in a god game.

Q: Does the Revolution's free-hand-style controller use batteries?

A: Yes, although the specifics in that regard are still being determined. We
suspect that the unit will use rechargeable batteries and that a charging
dock station will be made available either with the console or sold
separately. Nintendo may have chosen to attach add-ons to the unit with
cables instead of wirelessly in order to avoid further battery issues.

Q: Can users wield two free-hand-style controllers with Revolution games?

A: Yes. Nintendo's Revolution controller promo video shows players using two
pointer controllers to execute various gameplay tasks, such as beating
virtual drums.



Q: Can four players wield two free-hand-style controllers each?

A: No. Only four free-hand-style controllers can be used total, according to
Nintendo. Therefore, if one person used two pointers in a multiplayer game,
only two additional people could play, each with one pointer.

Q: Won't potential light gun add-ons fail to work correctly with Revolution
owners who use high-definition televisions?

A: No. Revolution's sensory technology does not interface with TV scan
lines, as is the standard with traditional light guns. Because of that,
light gun games are entirely possible with Revolution regardless of
television type.

Q: Has Nintendo revealed all the features of the Revolution controller?

A: No, we don't believe so. Certain secondary features still remain hidden.
Nintendo itself may be defining these features even as it tests and reworks
the controller.
Anonymous
September 17, 2005 6:02:34 AM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

Q: What does the conventional controller cradle/shell do?

A: This add-on makes it possible to play Revolution games in a more
traditional manner. The shell is designed to look and function like accepted
"regular" controllers, such as the Wave Bird. After its bottom casing is
removed, the Revolution's free-hand-style remote is inserted into a gap in
the middle of the controller shell. Gamers can then use the shell as they
would a traditional controller, with a notable difference: the pointer
remote's sensory functionality remains active. As a result, gamers get the
best of both worlds: more buttons and two analog sticks along with
motion-sensing operations. In a Revolution version of Madden Football,
gamers might be able to use the combo to control players with the shell's
analog sticks and execute pinpoint passes with the pointer's improved
accuracy.

______________________________________

OK. I feel a lot better about this. The conventional controller
cradle/shell sounds great.

Craig
Anonymous
September 17, 2005 5:16:19 PM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

> OK. I feel a lot better about this. The conventional controller
> cradle/shell sounds great.
>
> Craig

I really don't get the lukewarm reception and people being more concerned
how conventional games are to be played. Nintendo have taken a risk, and
come up with a new way of playing, if it works as well as described,
possibly conventional games won't be as enticing.

Imagine a tennis game, as well as hitting and adding power, you'll be able
to add top/back spin in the same fashion as you would with a real tennis
racket- with a twist of the handle. If the mechanics of the game work well,
it'll relegate future versions of Virtua Tennis on the PS3 and Xbox360,
however advanced graphically to the level of pong.
Maybe the this version of the controller won't be as sophisticated as we
wish, but at the very least it's a start and an eye opener for industry on
what's possible besides improvements in graphics..

...and on top of that, the back catalog of Nintendo games will be available!
Genuine innovation in gaming+traditional gaming+value for money, what more
do people want?!!
Related resources
Anonymous
September 17, 2005 6:42:04 PM

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ln wrote:

> I really don't get the lukewarm reception and people being more concerned
> how conventional games are to be played. Nintendo have taken a risk, and
> come up with a new way of playing, if it works as well as described,
> possibly conventional games won't be as enticing.

don't worry, nintendo loves new ways of playing games.
Virtual Boy, anyone?
Anonymous
September 17, 2005 6:42:05 PM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

>> I really don't get the lukewarm reception and people being more concerned
>> how conventional games are to be played. Nintendo have taken a risk, and
>> come up with a new way of playing, if it works as well as described,
>> possibly conventional games won't be as enticing.
>
> don't worry, nintendo loves new ways of playing games.
> Virtual Boy, anyone?

Yes, but it's Nintendo risk, not ours. Either it'll work like some of their
previous ideas, or it will crash and burn like some others.
Some people like new ideas and a fresh outlook, even if sometimes there's a
risk of failing, and some people like to be safe and do the same thing
again, and again, and again.....
Anonymous
September 17, 2005 7:18:23 PM

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"ln" <ln@spam.com> a écrit dans le message de
news:18zlkzxsdkqyu$.9e9kcl8jj07d.dlg@40tude.net...
> > OK. I feel a lot better about this. The conventional controller
> > cradle/shell sounds great.
> >
> > Craig
>
> I really don't get the lukewarm reception and people being more concerned
> how conventional games are to be played. Nintendo have taken a risk, and
> come up with a new way of playing, if it works as well as described,
> possibly conventional games won't be as enticing.
>
> Imagine a tennis game, as well as hitting and adding power, you'll be able
> to add top/back spin in the same fashion as you would with a real tennis
> racket- with a twist of the handle. If the mechanics of the game work
well,
> it'll relegate future versions of Virtua Tennis on the PS3 and Xbox360,
> however advanced graphically to the level of pong.
> Maybe the this version of the controller won't be as sophisticated as we
> wish, but at the very least it's a start and an eye opener for industry on
> what's possible besides improvements in graphics..
>
> ..and on top of that, the back catalog of Nintendo games will be
available!
> Genuine innovation in gaming+traditional gaming+value for money, what more
> do people want?!!

Yes but changing the way we play games might work for some games, not
others.
You example of Tennis could apply as well to Golf, but how about team sport
games (football, basketball, hockey...) ?
So for those you still need a traditional controller.

Antonin
Anonymous
September 17, 2005 7:18:24 PM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 15:18:23 +0100, "Antonin PAVIL"
<antonin@pavil.fslife.co.uk> wrote:

>Yes but changing the way we play games might work for some games, not
>others.
>You example of Tennis could apply as well to Golf, but how about team sport
>games (football, basketball, hockey...) ?
>So for those you still need a traditional controller.
>
>Antonin
>
who says you do?
--

gamertag: chrisflynnuk
Live Line-up: To Be Updated When I Can Be Arsed.
Anonymous
September 17, 2005 8:11:57 PM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

>
> Yes but changing the way we play games might work for some games, not
> others.

Its a new console with a new input method - I'm sure some type of games
will die, but whole new styles of games will surface including improvements
over old,(FPS, RTS, Sports).

If people want a conventional system, the Xbox360 and PS3 will be available
for them. What's the point of Nintendo offering the same? Besides they
obviously don't have the resources to compete at sony/microsofts game.
We've got a real choice next generation and it's a good thing IMO.

> You example of Tennis could apply as well to Golf, but how about team sport
> games (football, basketball, hockey...) ?

Why not, you've got the analogue stick in one hand to control player
movement and the remote for shooting/passing(and that's ignoring the
buttons).If we want to play a lazy port from the likes of EA, we've also
got the option of a rumoured cradle adopter for the remote.

> So for those you still need a traditional controller.
>
Its also got a NES-style traditional control, already on the remote.
Anonymous
September 17, 2005 8:11:58 PM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

ln wrote:
>>Yes but changing the way we play games might work for some games, not
>>others.
>
>
> Its a new console with a new input method - I'm sure some type of games
> will die, but whole new styles of games will surface including improvements
> over old,(FPS, RTS, Sports).
>
> If people want a conventional system, the Xbox360 and PS3 will be available
> for them. What's the point of Nintendo offering the same? Besides they
> obviously don't have the resources to compete at sony/microsofts game.
> We've got a real choice next generation and it's a good thing IMO.
>
>
>>You example of Tennis could apply as well to Golf, but how about team sport
>>games (football, basketball, hockey...) ?
>
>
> Why not, you've got the analogue stick in one hand to control player
> movement and the remote for shooting/passing(and that's ignoring the
> buttons).If we want to play a lazy port from the likes of EA, we've also
> got the option of a rumoured cradle adopter for the remote.
>
>
>>So for those you still need a traditional controller.
>>
>
> Its also got a NES-style traditional control, already on the remote.

It's amzaing how all these people aer crying about all the games they
won't be able to play. They don't seem to care about all the games they
haven't even thought of that are now possible with a controller like this.

"But, but... how will I play Halo? *sniff*"

joemono
Anonymous
September 17, 2005 11:25:24 PM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

"ln" <ln@spam.com> wrote in message
news:18zlkzxsdkqyu$.9e9kcl8jj07d.dlg@40tude.net...
> If the mechanics of the game work well,
> it'll relegate future versions of Virtua Tennis on the PS3 and Xbox360,
> however advanced graphically to the level of pong.

No it won't. People still play and enjoy the likes of Tony Hawks on a
controller, even though peripherals like dance mats and snowboards are
available for games.
Anonymous
September 18, 2005 1:16:28 AM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

> It's amzaing how all these people aer crying about all the games they
> won't be able to play. They don't seem to care about all the games they
> haven't even thought of that are now possible with a controller like this.
>
> "But, but... how will I play Halo? *sniff*"
>
> joemono

Exactly,
Looking at games charts is proof enough, people just want more of the same.

And what's there to complain about - if it doesn't live up to its
potential, we won't buy it, simple. At least it's given people something to
talk about besides - OMG DID YOU SEE THE TRAILER. MGS4 and RIDGE RACER
ROKZ!!
Anonymous
September 18, 2005 2:42:55 AM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

Michael Cargill wrote:
> "ln" <ln@spam.com> wrote in message
> news:18zlkzxsdkqyu$.9e9kcl8jj07d.dlg@40tude.net...
>
>>If the mechanics of the game work well,
>>it'll relegate future versions of Virtua Tennis on the PS3 and Xbox360,
>>however advanced graphically to the level of pong.
>
>
> No it won't. People still play and enjoy the likes of Tony Hawks on a
> controller, even though peripherals like dance mats and snowboards are
> available for games.
>
>

Do you find playing DDR/Samba/Donkey Konga etc. etc. any fun with a
joypad? As much as people rave about VT, there's really very little to
it, even Super Tennis on SNES was more varied and challenging. People
might still enjoy playing it with a pad, but compared to how it /could/
be played it'll could seem fairly backwards in comparison. Depends on
how such a thing'd be executed, but I know which way I'd rather be
playing, if it were possible.

--
[ste]
"Throw me your matches 'cause I like to burn stuff"
Anonymous
September 18, 2005 2:53:08 AM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

It's amzaing how all these people aer crying about all the games they won't
be able to play. They don't seem to care about all the games they haven't
even thought of that are now possible with a controller like this.

"But, but... how will I play Halo? *sniff*"

joemono

_______________________________

What games will people be able to play that they can't play now? I find it
hard to get excited about games no one has thought of.

What about people who never play sports games since sports should be played
for real?.

Craig
Anonymous
September 18, 2005 1:00:31 PM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

In article <1c8n86z5c9fkq.1vbhhwrn3hdwl.dlg@40tude.net>, ln wrote:
> > It's amzaing how all these people aer crying about all the games they
>> won't be able to play. They don't seem to care about all the games they
>> haven't even thought of that are now possible with a controller like this.
>>
>> "But, but... how will I play Halo? *sniff*"
>>
>> joemono
>
> Exactly,
> Looking at games charts is proof enough, people just want more of the same.

I think it's more a case of "the market is full of boringly similar
titles so people stick with brands they know."

Choobs

--
Sir Chewbury S. Gubbins
"Dreamers come and go but a dream's forever"
Gaming Diary: http://www.nelefa.org
"Roll for initiative, monkey boy!"
Anonymous
September 18, 2005 5:33:08 PM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

>> Exactly,
>> Looking at games charts is proof enough, people just want more of the same.
>
> I think it's more a case of "the market is full of boringly similar
> titles so people stick with brands they know."
>
> Choobs

Probably, but some of the more lazy sequels rocket up the charts, people
actively hunt them out. It's not a case of "oh well its all boring, I may
as well buy another FIFA game".

I'm not trying to be a snob about, I was the same with the Tekken games.
But seeing people moan about Nintento's fresh approach while others are
going crazy over yet another cinematic trailer for yet another sequel on
the PS3/XBOX is quite disheartening.
Anonymous
September 18, 2005 9:16:44 PM

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"Ben Allen" <"ben.allen"@\"your.tonsils\"btinternet.com> a écrit dans le
message de news:D gjui1$dcm$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...

> > I am really sick of those people who claim there is no fun beyond Mario,
> > Zelda and Nintendo, and constantly think they are entitled to impose
their
> > views as being universal.
>
> No-ones claiming that here
>

"Looking at games charts is proof enough, people just want more of the
same."
"the market is full of boringly similar titles so people stick with brands
they know."

That, plus other remarks over time about "those stupid casual gamer who no
nothin about true gaming and who buy playstations".
All the attitude in general of some people who constantly have nothing but
contempt for people playing on playstation or xbox.
Not that I feel targeted, console-wise I only own a gamecube and a GBA, and
I previoulsy had a megadrive, snes and dreamcast.


> > It never really occur to you that different people have different tastes
?
> > That the world is not split in two separate blocks of "I just want
realistic
> > games" and "All I want is fun/weird games made by Nintendo" ? Some
people
> > like fun/weird games and realistic ones AS WELL.
>
> Well Nintendo make 'their' games, 3rd parties provide the other, both do
> exist, even if they are only EA titles.
>
>
> > The one thing that some Nintendo fanboys do not understand (or don't
want to
> > understand) is that the reason why the playstation is successfull is not
bec
> > ause of GTA or MGS or GT, but because there are so many games on this
> > platform that every one can find what he/she likes. Did it never occur
to
> > people here that there are many xbox owner that never played Halo, or
> > playstation owner that never played GTA MGS, DMC, GT or Tekken ?
>
> Its 'owners' by the way, and this may well be true, but that doesn't
> mean the consoles offer anything different or exciting.
>

My point here is, yes you could be true about nintendo bringing something
entirely different, but why would I have to buy two consoles?

Personally I can afford it, but for the others, what if they they want to
enjoy both new usual type of games?
if the revolution could offer new revolutionary games and a wide third party
support, woudn't it be beter?


> > How many times I got frustrated on my gamecube because I either could
not
> > find a game I want (for example a ligh gun game) or have to buy the only
one
> > available (Capcom Vs SNK for example).
>
> If you don't like what it offers play on a different console, simple!
>
> > How many times did I realise there was a game genre that until recently
I
> > did not like and then realised my tastes changed (FPS, racing to take
two
> > examples) and unfortunately, less choice on the gamecube than on any
other
> > patform, or only average titles.
>
> Again, if you want main stream titles, use a different console
>

I bought the gamecube (unlike the N64 that I decided to skip) because at the
time I felt I would enjoy Nintendo games while at the same time there would
be a lot more third party support than on the N64, which it delivered to a
certain extent.


> > So yes I am worried about third party support, unlike some guys here who
> > don't like third party games and ONLY Nintendo or second party/third
party
> > exclusive games (but only when they are with Nintendo, because the day
Rare
> > or Fator 5 leave the boat, then all of a sudden everyone find their
games
> > were not that good after all).
>
> Even EA have said they are very excited to be working with the
> Revolutions controller.
>
> > Is is not just about the controller, it is the whole thing: the
revolution
> > to be less powerfull + the historical bad relationship of Nintendo with
> > third parties, since the end of the SNES, and now this weird controller
with
> > only 2 buttons.
>
> So you lack the ability to count then?

As far as I know on the main controller you have only two buttons (I do not
count the start/select ones) and the 'a' and 'b' ones seem to be only for
NES games).
So OK, 4 buttons then with the 'nunchaku' extension.

> > So I welcome the new controller and gameplay, but just because a new
breed
> > of games appear that does not mean I am bored with all the current ones.
> > And unlike people here I DO like sequels, because when you think about
it a
> > sequel is just a sequel for the one guy who played the prequels.
> > For others, an MGS'4' or GT'5' will be just an MGS'1' or GT'1', only
with
> > updated graphics, and that is better than emulation to play old games
with
> > outdated graphics.
>
> You genuinely think that GT5 was anymore fun that GT4? or that Fifa 2020
> will play much differently to Fifa 2005?

Like I said, sequels are only boring for those who played previous versions
of the game.
But sequels are not just targeted to people who played all previous titles
of the license, but as well for people who discover it.
The guy who will buy a PS3 and never owned a PS1 or PS2 before may be very
happy to play a nice version of GT/GTA/Tekken/MGS/Fifa/NFL/NHL/... that uses
all PS3 capabilities, rather than having to play old PS1/PS2 versions.
So yes the game won't be more fun, but with similar gameplay and better
graphics it won't be less fun either, but still nicer.

My overall point is that some always see sequels as the same game over and
over again, I see them as a way to make the same game available to new
gamers on a new platform, and doing that while exploiting the new gen
capabilities.
Now if some people buy every Fifa game that is released, this is their
choice.
There is also a lot of people who skip some releases, for example whoever
played GT3 os PS2 may have decided to skip GT4, but will be please with a
GT5.

So having sequels is not that bad either. Off course we need new games as
well otherwise over time it would get boring.

> > And talking about sequels and boredom: what about Mario Party 7, the
> > upcoming Zelda '8' (if you do not count GB and GBA games), Super Mario
(5?
> > 6? 7?).
>
> Mario Party yer, i think thats pretty much just regurgitated but you
> would have to be stupid about making the same comparison between the
> Zelda and Mario Games, they have changed so much with age, and benefited
> from the changes in technology, I mean Zelda 1 plays so much differently
> to Wind Waker same with Super Mario 1 and Sunshine. You cant say the
> same for GT
>

Yes but the comparison is not entirely fair. Mario and Zelda changed a lot
because they went from 2D to 3D, and I rarely find that games who went from
2D to 3D kept their original gameplay.
On the other hand, there wasn't a Sony:Microsoft console at the time of
theNES (I think for Sony there was the MSX but I'm not sure it applies here)
so we never experienced a 2D Halo or a 2D GT or Tekken.

I only played Zelda WW and after I played OOT, and I was retrospectively
disappointed about how few changes there were in WW compared to OOT.
Same objects (boomerang, bomb, arrows, hammer,...) same puzzles (reflect the
light with the shield to open something) same monsters (bats, skulls), same
sound effects, same story oover and over again wit hthe same bad guy
(Ganondorf). I mean I understand you have to keep some stuff from the
previous game but I really felt Nintendo did not much effort to bring
variety in the puzzles and situations.
And the new zelda, apart from the improved gfx, what will it bring ? Well
there is still the day/nigh thing and the transformation int wolf and so on,
but the day/nigh thing reminds me of the present/future worlds in OOT.

> Nintendo's new console is offering a CHOICE, people who want to play the
> new GT, go buy a PS3, for people who want something different, Nintendo
> are offering that. It doesn't really matter how powerful (or less
> powerful) the Revolution will be as it won't be running PGR3 at 30fps.
>

Yes but a lot of people like the idea of new type of games and at the same
time want to be able to play sequels of some license they liked.
So all of them having to buy a PS3/Xbox plus a revolution ? Well if the
revolution is so cheap why not, otherwise people will have to make choices.
Anonymous
September 18, 2005 10:04:06 PM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

Antonin PAVIL wrote:
> "Ben Allen" <"ben.allen"@\"your.tonsils\"btinternet.com> a écrit dans le
> message de news:D gjui1$dcm$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
>
>
>>>I am really sick of those people who claim there is no fun beyond Mario,
>>>Zelda and Nintendo, and constantly think they are entitled to impose
>>>their views as being universal.
>>
>>No-ones claiming that here
>>
>
> "Looking at games charts is proof enough, people just want more of the
> same."
> "the market is full of boringly similar titles so people stick with brands
> they know."
>

What has that got to do with your "no fun beyond Mario, Zelda and
Nintendo" comment?

>
> My point here is, yes you could be true about nintendo bringing something
> entirely different, but why would I have to buy two consoles?
>
> Personally I can afford it, but for the others, what if they they want to
> enjoy both new usual type of games?
> if the revolution could offer new revolutionary games and a wide third party
> support, woudn't it be beter?
>

What makes you think it's not going to? OK, it's fair enough to guess
that things could quickly go the same way as with the Gamecube re: 3rd
party support, but initially at least it seema like Nintendo are keen
for 3rd party support.

>
> As far as I know on the main controller you have only two buttons (I do not
> count the start/select ones) and the 'a' and 'b' ones seem to be only for
> NES games).
> So OK, 4 buttons then with the 'nunchaku' extension.
>

Or the same buttons as a GC pad if you plug a GC pad in, or if you plug
the remote into a shell of a pad-with-more-buttons-available setup which
is apparently going to happen too.

> My overall point is that some always see sequels as the same game over and
> over again, I see them as a way to make the same game available to new
> gamers on a new platform, and doing that while exploiting the new gen
> capabilities.

So what do you see as the point of releasing the same game over and over
on the same platform then, once or maybe twice each year?

>
> Yes but the comparison is not entirely fair. Mario and Zelda changed a lot
> because they went from 2D to 3D, and I rarely find that games who went from
> 2D to 3D kept their original gameplay.

EA's NHL & Madden series didn't change particularly much gameplay wise
in their transition from 2D to 3D.


> I only played Zelda WW and after I played OOT, and I was retrospectively
> disappointed about how few changes there were in WW compared to OOT.
> Same objects (boomerang, bomb, arrows, hammer,...) same puzzles (reflect the
> light with the shield to open something) same monsters (bats, skulls), same
> sound effects, same story oover and over again wit hthe same bad guy
> (Ganondorf). I mean I understand you have to keep some stuff from the
> previous game but I really felt Nintendo did not much effort to bring
> variety in the puzzles and situations.

Yeah, I agree. It was a toally different setting with the islands and
the sailing, but other than that it was mainly the same game mechanics
as OoT.

>
> Yes but a lot of people like the idea of new type of games and at the same
> time want to be able to play sequels of some license they liked.
> So all of them having to buy a PS3/Xbox plus a revolution ? Well if the
> revolution is so cheap why not, otherwise people will have to make choices.
>

Depends on what people think really. If they want the next EA Sports
game with better graphics then they'll go for that, if they don't care
that it's essentially exactly the same game as the one they have then to
me that's their stupidity for paying over the odds for something they
already have. But you could say that about many different types of game
on any platform....

--
[ste]
"Throw me your matches 'cause I like to burn stuff"
Anonymous
September 18, 2005 10:14:41 PM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

> Yes, but not everyone falls in a category "all nintendo/ new gameplay" or
> "PS3/Xbox360 for old gameplay".
> Some may want to have both, and not everyone will be able to afford an Xbox
> or PS3 plus a revolution.
>
Your logic beggars belief, really. So Nintendo try something new and it's a
bad thing because you might want it as well as a PS3/XBOX360.
What about if you want Halo and Gran Turismo, did you think of that?
I suppose to save us the hassle and expense, all 3 consoles should be
exactly the same. ;) 

> So if Nintendo could make a console able to support both new type of games
> and current games as well it would be better.

IT DOES! A cradle has been discussed/confirmed(?) by Nintendo to allow a
Gamecube style control possible.

>
> As for being a Nintendo group, that does not mean we have to agree with
> everything Nintendo does.

Of course not, no-one said people should all agree. I personally think the
Gamecube has been a let down overall, not enough games.

> And after all there is speculation about all systems, not everyone likes
> necessarily what Sony or Microsoft will offer (even in xbox or playstation
> newsgroup) and they talk about it in the respective newgroup.

Exactly! But I'm not going into PS groups saying "people don't see beyond
MGS / Gran Turismo" As I said in previous post, "that would be stupid" It's
basically trolling, and plainly not true. Get it?

> So if I was, say, anti-nintendo (which I'm not, I own a GC and a GBA) I
> would get the point: go post somewhere else.
> But if I am curious/worried about some stuff nintendo does, I am not going
> to post my concerns in uk.games.video.xbox.

I don't think people have a problem with you or any of us having worries
about the controller.
Anonymous
September 18, 2005 10:37:39 PM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

"[ste parker]" <imaginey@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3p3gujF8i37hU1@individual.net...
>
> Do you find playing DDR/Samba/Donkey Konga etc. etc. any fun with a
> joypad? As much as people rave about VT, there's really very little to
> it, even Super Tennis on SNES was more varied and challenging. People
> might still enjoy playing it with a pad, but compared to how it /could/
> be played it'll could seem fairly backwards in comparison. Depends on
> how such a thing'd be executed, but I know which way I'd rather be
> playing, if it were possible.

It might well be better, but that wouldn't make more conventional pads
obsolete. Whilst a steering wheel is the best way to play a driving game, I
still have no problems playing driving games with the D-pad on a controller.
The same goes for playing FPS's - it is far, far better on a mouse and
keyboard but I have no problems playing them on a controller.
Anonymous
September 18, 2005 10:55:50 PM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

"[ste parker]" <imaginey@hotmail.com> a écrit dans le message de
news:3p5kvmF8haoqU1@individual.net...
> > "Looking at games charts is proof enough, people just want more of the
> > same."
> > "the market is full of boringly similar titles so people stick with
brands
> > they know."
> >
>
> What has that got to do with your "no fun beyond Mario, Zelda and
> Nintendo" comment?

It is more a reaction about the snobbish attitude in general in the nintendo
'world' that consist in always criticizing people choices and charts,
because they differ from theirs.

You like MGS/GT/GTA? you enjoyed a game that is successful and in in the
charts? But... but... you are not a TRUE gamer! Shame on you!
TRUE gamers play only games that do not sell well, because if they do, they
are necessarily boring (but if a nintendo game sells well we forgive
nintendo).

I just reacted because some people, because they are excited about the new
possibilities, do not understand that some others while excited at new
gameplay may want as well to be able to play 'usual' games as well and may
welcome the though of a 'standard' controller shell to plug into the
'remote'.

> > if the revolution could offer new revolutionary games and a wide third
party
> > support, woudn't it be beter?
> >
>
> What makes you think it's not going to? OK, it's fair enough to guess
> that things could quickly go the same way as with the Gamecube re: 3rd
> party support, but initially at least it seema like Nintendo are keen
> for 3rd party support.

Of course, at this point without knowing who will support the revolution,
and see any footage of revolution games, we are not sure that it's not going
to, but we are not sure it's going to either.
Now what do people do when they don't know something? They speculate about
it. Specutlation don't always have to be positive.

However I can understand that with the constant "Nintendo is gonna
dieeeee..." stance of some people, some may grow tired af any negative
comment about nintendo or the revolution.

> > As far as I know on the main controller you have only two buttons (I do
not
> > count the start/select ones) and the 'a' and 'b' ones seem to be only
for
> > NES games).
> > So OK, 4 buttons then with the 'nunchaku' extension.
> >
>
> Or the same buttons as a GC pad if you plug a GC pad in, or if you plug
> the remote into a shell of a pad-with-more-buttons-available setup which
> is apparently going to happen too.

I am more interested in the 'shell' thing, as according to Perry Kaplan the
GC controllers will be used for GC games only, not revolution ones.
I hope it will be designed to accomodate not only GC but SNES and N64 games,
so that we don't need to buy an extra 'SNES shell' or a 'N6 shell'.

> > My overall point is that some always see sequels as the same game over
and
> > over again, I see them as a way to make the same game available to new
> > gamers on a new platform, and doing that while exploiting the new gen
> > capabilities.
>
> So what do you see as the point of releasing the same game over and over
> on the same platform then, once or maybe twice each year?
>

Yes true. But I think it is still usefull. The one guy who did not buy the
first game may want the new one because it may bring, even if few, more
features.
And for the rest, you can buy the first game at a reduced price (I buy most
of my games preowned, but some like to buy only new games).

> >
> > Yes but the comparison is not entirely fair. Mario and Zelda changed a
lot
> > because they went from 2D to 3D, and I rarely find that games who went
from
> > 2D to 3D kept their original gameplay.
>
> EA's NHL & Madden series didn't change particularly much gameplay wise
> in their transition from 2D to 3D.

Yes but when you talk about sport games, there is not so much you can do
about the core gameplay.
Football will always be about 11 players-a-side kicking a ball with their
legs and heads and two goalkeepers at each end.
You can add 5/6/7-a-side games, or change the background (FIFA/NFL/NBA
street) to vary a bit, but you are constrained by the very definition of the
game itself.
Anonymous
September 18, 2005 11:11:24 PM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

"ln" <ln@spam.com> a écrit dans le message de
news:x158cmy6t7mk$.1mdxcwe9q9uhe.dlg@40tude.net...
>
> > Yes, but not everyone falls in a category "all nintendo/ new gameplay"
or
> > "PS3/Xbox360 for old gameplay".
> > Some may want to have both, and not everyone will be able to afford an
Xbox
> > or PS3 plus a revolution.
> >
> Your logic beggars belief, really. So Nintendo try something new and it's
a
> bad thing because you might want it as well as a PS3/XBOX360.
> What about if you want Halo and Gran Turismo, did you think of that?
> I suppose to save us the hassle and expense, all 3 consoles should be
> exactly the same. ;) 

No but I would like a console with a decent amount of games and third party
games.
For me the problem with the cube is not so much quantity but the fact some
genres are non or under represented.

For example in racing games, if you want an arcade game, all you have is
burnout. A more realistic one? Then R:Racing or nothing. A compromise? then
you have NFS or SRS, but unfortunately you have to drive only at night and
like 'chavvy' games.


> > So if Nintendo could make a console able to support both new type of
games
> > and current games as well it would be better.
>
> IT DOES! A cradle has been discussed/confirmed(?) by Nintendo to allow a
> Gamecube style control possible.
>

Yes I know but my first post was precisely in reaction to someone who seemed
not to understand the need to this shell extension.
And then others reacted by saying, in substance "who cares if traditional
games disappear".
And so on...

All that to say that I am pleased this extension exists.
Now if it turns out that not only the revolution is successfull with a lot
of third party titles, and that third party developpers manage to use the
new controller for all games, then even better.
But I like the idea to have a traditional controller as a 'backup', in case
thing go wrong and few support the new controller.


Ant.
Anonymous
September 18, 2005 11:11:25 PM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 19:11:24 +0100, "Antonin PAVIL"
<antonin@pavil.fslife.co.uk> wrote:


>But I like the idea to have a traditional controller as a 'backup', in case
>thing go wrong and few support the new controller.
>
>
>Ant.
>
which is exactly what nintendo are doing (even though just about every
major developer has been singing the praises of the new controller)

so why the flippin heck are you going absolutely, rabidly schizoid
over what is currently nothing but a hypothetical situation?
--

gamertag: chrisflynnuk
Live Line-up: To Be Updated When I Can Be Arsed.
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 12:16:11 AM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

"Chris F" <chris@asifimtellingyoulot.com> wrote in message
news:qmcri15139873b0n4mrokgvrd50jvc4prm@4ax.com...
>
> so why the flippin heck are you going absolutely, rabidly schizoid
> over what is currently nothing but a hypothetical situation?

I would have a guess it is in reaction to the usual (and completely
predictable) response from all the Nintendo fans who always claim that the
latest thing they have announced is suddenly the saviour of the world.

It isn't so much in this newsgroup, but that 'In' bloke did sound rather
fanboyish to me at first.
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 12:29:58 AM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

> No but I would like a console with a decent amount of games and third party
> games.

XBOX360 and PS3 practically guarantees you that. What is the issue here?!

> For me the problem with the cube is not so much quantity but the fact some
> genres are non or under represented.
>

I really don't get what you're getting at! Hope you didn't buy a cube, I
guess. If you're pissed at Nintendo for letting you down, don't buy the
next one from Nintendo. It's that simple. If PS3 looks tempting buy that.

> For example in racing games, if you want an arcade game, all you have is
> burnout. A more realistic one? Then R:Racing or nothing. A compromise? then
> you have NFS or SRS, but unfortunately you have to drive only at night and
> like 'chavvy' games.

In a perfect world the console you purchase will have every game you
want..... but it's a compromise, if one console has more of what you want,
buy that one.

Nintendo are desperate for our money, just the same as the others. Maybe,
they're trying something different in hope of avoiding the fruitless task
of direct competition with PS3 and XBOX. I dunno, whatever it is, I'll just
pick the one I like best, if that's ok with everyone!
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 1:20:49 PM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

In article <dgkamg$2rs$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>, Antonin PAVIL wrote:
>
> Yes I know but my first post was precisely in reaction to someone who seemed
> not to understand the need to this shell extension.

No it wasn't - your response was to me and all I said is that sequels
fill the charts because there are so many of them. It's you that went off
on a giant exploding powder-puff attack.

Choobs

--
Sir Chewbury S. Gubbins
"Dreamers come and go but a dream's forever"
Gaming Diary: http://www.nelefa.org
"Roll for initiative, monkey boy!"
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 2:51:59 PM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

"WildStyle24_7" <wildstyle247@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1127122015.839400.51450@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> ln wrote:
>>
>> Imagine a tennis game, as well as hitting and adding power, you'll be
>> able
>> to add top/back spin in the same fashion as you would with a real tennis
>> racket- with a twist of the handle.
>>
> Or Soul Calibur where you use the controller to actually weild the
> sword...
>

Has anyone considered that the household ornaments may take a pumelling if
you take this "physical" controller manipulation to extremes.......

I also hate to think what passers by may think if they catch a glimpse of a
guy giving it a little too much repetitive wrist action through the lounge
window ;-)



--
Fik
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 3:36:23 PM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

Dan Mazurowski wrote:

>>I really don't get the lukewarm reception
>
>
> Remember how badly everyone ragged on the DS? The "gimmicky" design?
> And now that there are a few good titles out there, what do people say?
>
> Gamers can be just as conservative as any other group. They fear what
> they don't understand. It took a while for them to understand the DS,
> but now they get it. Right now, they don't understand the Revolution.
> Once we have good games that use it, they'll accept it. Well, except
> the trolls.
>

I agree, people ragging on a a company that is making a genuine effort
with creativity seems very strange to me and I think says more about the
people posting than Nintendo. The only criticisms I hear are by people
who haven't bothered to imagine or investigate the possibilities offered
"How will I play Halo?", "I'm not going to wave my arms around" etc. -
when it's clear that an fps would be more than perfect for this and that
it's proven that very little movement is needed at all.
Sure it's funny looking but ask yourself? Do you have a closed or open
mind when it comes to new things? Are you going to become one of those
old people who sits and complains about new fangled technology and how
it used to be?

The only criticism that I have is that it's a bit sterile looking - but
since Nintendo's last 'fun' looking console wasn't exactly a success in
comparison that's a logical move.
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 3:42:51 PM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

"WildStyle24_7" <wildstyle247@gmail.com> writes:

> Or Soul Calibur where you use the controller to actually weild the
> sword...

My kids' play room will be a shambles if the Tennis idea comes to
fruition, much less Soul Calibur Revolution...

Nick

--
#include<stdio.h> /* sigmask (sig.c) 20041028 PUBLIC DOMAIN */
int main(c,v)char *v;{return !c?putchar(* /* cc -o sig sig.c */
v-1)&&main(0,v+1):main(0,"Ojdl!Wbshjti!=ojdlAwbshjti/psh?\v\1");}
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 8:46:40 PM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

"Dan Mazurowski" <kingsmedley@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1127117991.687308.246710@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>> I really don't get the lukewarm reception
>
> Remember how badly everyone ragged on the DS? The "gimmicky" design?
> And now that there are a few good titles out there, what do people say?

Considering that 44% of all game sales in Japan last week were DS titles,
I'd hardly call it a gimmick anymore. ;-) I'm not sure if the gaming press
has changed it's tune, but people are speaking with their pocketbooks.
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 10:42:20 PM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

"ln" <ln@spam.com> a écrit dans le message de
news:D qaps93ns05x.elhptg9u7mka.dlg@40tude.net...
> > No but I would like a console with a decent amount of games and third
party
> > games.
>
> XBOX360 and PS3 practically guarantees you that. What is the issue here?!
>
> > For me the problem with the cube is not so much quantity but the fact
some
> > genres are non or under represented.
> >
>
> I really don't get what you're getting at! Hope you didn't buy a cube, I
> guess. If you're pissed at Nintendo for letting you down, don't buy the
> next one from Nintendo. It's that simple. If PS3 looks tempting buy that.
>
> > For example in racing games, if you want an arcade game, all you have is
> > burnout. A more realistic one? Then R:Racing or nothing. A compromise?
then
> > you have NFS or SRS, but unfortunately you have to drive only at night
and
> > like 'chavvy' games.
>
> In a perfect world the console you purchase will have every game you
> want..... but it's a compromise, if one console has more of what you want,
> buy that one.
>
> Nintendo are desperate for our money, just the same as the others. Maybe,
> they're trying something different in hope of avoiding the fruitless task
> of direct competition with PS3 and XBOX. I dunno, whatever it is, I'll
just
> pick the one I like best, if that's ok with everyone!

Off course I am not dreaming of the perfect console that would have all
games. I know perfectly well that even if you buy the most successfull
console (namely the playstation so far) there would be games that I don't
have.

OK we will have just to "agree to disagree" on this.

You are OK with a console that is so revolutionary that it could be almost
exclusively dedicated to new gameplay.
I just want something with a FAIR third party support, even if the weakest
of the thre consoles, on top of revolutionary games, hence I am happy with
the 'shell controller' option.
For example the xbox, while having sold more or less like the gamecube
worldwide had twice as much games released.

The gamecube did not do so bad, but I would never have bought a N64 for
example for this reason.
I just hope the revolution will follow more the gamecube path than the N64
one.

Antonin
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 10:51:44 PM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

"Sir Chewbury Gubbins" <chewbury.gubbins@nelefa.org> a écrit dans le message
de news:109203-djs.ln1@cadmium.nelefa.org...
> In article <dgkamg$2rs$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>, Antonin PAVIL wrote:
> >
> > Yes I know but my first post was precisely in reaction to someone who
seemed
> > not to understand the need to this shell extension.
>
> No it wasn't - your response was to me and all I said is that sequels
> fill the charts because there are so many of them. It's you that went off
> on a giant exploding powder-puff attack.
>
> Choobs
>
> --
> Sir Chewbury S. Gubbins
> "Dreamers come and go but a dream's forever"
> Gaming Diary: http://www.nelefa.org
> "Roll for initiative, monkey boy!"

Yes I apologize for that, but I wanted to answer to the two/three posts in
answer to mine, without targeting someone in particular.
What annoyed me is the tone that was used in answer to my post, mocking the
fact that some people might have doubt about the controller.

I am excited as well by the new controller, but not entirely convinced yet
until I saw some REAL game footage.
The video is promising but it is a commercial, and although it appears from
the presentation at the TGS that it was quite precise (and if so many people
said they were impressed with it I trust them), I still need to see the real
thing rather than actors pretending to play with it.

In due time I may be wrong, and it may turn out that games will be easy to
adapt to it, or I may be right and it may turn out that some game really
cannot be adapted to it, in which case we will be happy to have a 'classic'
controller option.

Antonin.
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 2:13:06 AM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

> OK we will have just to "agree to disagree" on this.
>
> You are OK with a console that is so revolutionary that it could be almost
> exclusively dedicated to new gameplay.

I never said that. I'm not analysing the whole package or reviewing the
final product. The new controller caught my imagination, I wanted to speak
about it, that's it. I suppose I'm more interested in the controller at the
moment, rather than worrying about what makes a viable system.

> I just want something with a FAIR third party support, even if the weakest
> of the thre consoles, on top of revolutionary games, hence I am happy with
> the 'shell controller' option.

I think most people will expect at least that. Anyway that's Nintendo's
concern not ours.

To be honest I don't think we disagree on anything, its just we're talking
about different things. You're saying what you want/expect in a console,
and I'm caught up solely on how great the controller sounds.
!