Oblivion: any thoughts?

Archived from groups: (More info?)

This looks like the 'next big thing' in the CRPG area (especially
single player) and I wanted to get some impressions of what you folks
have seen so far. I'm an jaded mofo yet I feel the great weight of
can't wait for this title, mostly due to the sandboxing potential and
the fact that from what I've seen, the ES team is dedicated to creating
a living world with animals and people that actually do stuff rather
than an entire continent of store manniquins (moody dark elf store
manniquins at that!).

The only complaints I've read are that there's no horse combat and
something about a quest compass??
90 answers Last reply
More about oblivion thoughts
  1. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    If they could only add online play to this game, it would be even
    better. It would be awesome to travel around this world with a buddy
    or two.

    littlemute wrote:
    > This looks like the 'next big thing' in the CRPG area (especially
    > single player) and I wanted to get some impressions of what you folks
    > have seen so far. I'm an jaded mofo yet I feel the great weight of
    > can't wait for this title, mostly due to the sandboxing potential and
    > the fact that from what I've seen, the ES team is dedicated to creating
    > a living world with animals and people that actually do stuff rather
    > than an entire continent of store manniquins (moody dark elf store
    > manniquins at that!).
    >
    > The only complaints I've read are that there's no horse combat and
    > something about a quest compass??
  2. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    Why not just play Diablo, Everquest, Ultima Online, World of Warcraft
    or Guild Wars?

    The whole point of the design is a single player experience where you
    can play in a big-ass world without all the other people around.
  3. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    littlemute wrote:
    > This looks like the 'next big thing' in the CRPG area (especially
    > single player) and I wanted to get some impressions of what you folks
    > have seen so far. I'm an jaded mofo yet I feel the great weight of
    > can't wait for this title, mostly due to the sandboxing potential and
    > the fact that from what I've seen, the ES team is dedicated to creating
    > a living world with animals and people that actually do stuff rather
    > than an entire continent of store manniquins (moody dark elf store
    > manniquins at that!).

    I'm very interested in it so far. I've heard that every NPC is fully
    voice acted in Oblivion which will be a much needed change from the
    "signpost" NPC's of Morrowind. It sounds like they have seen some of
    the things Gothic 1 & 2 have done and made some improvements. I'm sure
    it will still have the ass-tastic "skills get better as you use them"
    game system (which I hate) but I can probably overlook that if the game
    world is highly immersive. With so few other RPGs to look forward to
    Oblivion will probably be a must buy for me.

    Is there a release date for the PC version yet?

    > The only complaints I've read are that there's no horse combat and
    > something about a quest compass??

    No horse combat is really no big deal to me.

    Knight37
  4. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    Riding through the fields cutting down peasants on horseback has a
    certain appeal though.

    EB has it listed for 11/21. That's pushing it close to the Xmas bubble
    but from what I've read it's pretty close to done.

    As for the skills, I have an old camera that I used for Ultima Online
    and Morrowind to hold down keys while I sleep and then wake up to 10
    level ups and 100 skill in sneak or sword if needed! I wonder if
    there's anything online about the skills sytem for Oblivion yet?

    The modding is going to be tough having to voice all NPC's if one
    wanted to make quests, but man that's a great addition. It's one of
    the things that put Jagged Alliance into the stratosphere for
    immersion. "There ain't nuthin' down there for you!" and "I'm looking
    to get in on a good shootin'"
  5. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    littlemute wrote:
    > Riding through the fields cutting down peasants on horseback has a
    > certain appeal though.
    >
    > EB has it listed for 11/21. That's pushing it close to the Xmas bubble
    > but from what I've read it's pretty close to done.

    Cool, right before the Xbox 360 launch then (11/22). I was worried they
    were going to push it back until after the 360 version to try and sell
    more 360's. This is good news.

    > As for the skills, I have an old camera that I used for Ultima Online
    > and Morrowind to hold down keys while I sleep and then wake up to 10
    > level ups and 100 skill in sneak or sword if needed! I wonder if
    > there's anything online about the skills sytem for Oblivion yet?

    LOL. I guess now is the time to be doing some research about this game
    but all the bits I've seen so far look very promising.

    > The modding is going to be tough having to voice all NPC's if one
    > wanted to make quests, but man that's a great addition. It's one of
    > the things that put Jagged Alliance into the stratosphere for
    > immersion. "There ain't nuthin' down there for you!" and "I'm looking
    > to get in on a good shootin'"

    I imagine that for modding there will be some kind of conversation
    system that doesn't require voice work. I don't expect many mods to
    have full voice work and the ones that do probably will have mediocre
    at best voice work. :)

    Knight37
  6. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    Mark Morrison wrote:
    > I want a demo first - I'm no longer prepared to buy a new PC just to
    > play the latest Elder Scrolls game. I'll see how it runs on my
    > current system before buying.

    I'm almost convinced to buy Oblivion sight unseen. I know I shouldn't,
    but that's about how I feel about it now.

    > Bunnies aren't just cute like everybody supposes !
    > They got them hoppy legs and twitchy little noses !
    > And what's with all the carrots ?
    > What do they need such good eyesight for anyway ?
    > Bunnies ! Bunnies ! It must be BUNNIES !

    I finally saw the episode where this came from. Hilarious! That was my
    favorite Buffy yet. That and Evil Willow totally kicked ass. Not to
    mention the Tabula Rasa episode was great also. I am now about halfway
    through season 7 so I'm almost to the end, but what a fun ride it's
    been.

    Knight37
  7. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    Knight37 wrote:
    > > As for the skills, I have an old camera that I used for Ultima Online
    > > and Morrowind to hold down keys while I sleep and then wake up to 10
    > > level ups and 100 skill in sneak or sword if needed! I wonder if
    > > there's anything online about the skills sytem for Oblivion yet?

    I wonder when they'll get rid of this. Maybe they should just get rid
    of the levels altogether. Instead of a level 10 'jumper' you're just a
    guy with 150 jumping skill
  8. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    wolfing wrote:
    > Knight37 wrote:
    > > > As for the skills, I have an old camera that I used for Ultima Online
    > > > and Morrowind to hold down keys while I sleep and then wake up to 10
    > > > level ups and 100 skill in sneak or sword if needed! I wonder if
    > > > there's anything online about the skills sytem for Oblivion yet?
    >
    > I wonder when they'll get rid of this. Maybe they should just get rid
    > of the levels altogether. Instead of a level 10 'jumper' you're just a
    > guy with 150 jumping skill

    I would prefer they ditched the whole Elder Scrolls system all
    together, but I'm realistic and I know that ain't gunna happen. What
    I'd like to see is a point-buy system and you gain xp for completing
    quests and killing stuff. You know, like any NORMAL RPG. :) But since
    that isn't going to happen, they could come up with a better way for
    the stats to level up over time besides gaining "levels." The way it
    worked in MW was just insanely unbalanced. Not to mention the magic
    system was completely borked. But as long as you don't try to "play"
    the system MW can be pretty fun and so I hope Oblivion just gets it at
    least that right.

    Knight37
  9. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    Mark Morrison wrote:
    > I loved Tabula Rasa - more laughs in that one ep that in most
    > comedies.

    I loved Spike thinking that Giles was his dad. That part was hilarious.
    Oh and "I'm a vampire with a soul.", "Vampire with a soul? How stupid
    is that?"

    > My 6 year old niece is a Buffy fan, and her favourite ep is either
    > Fear Itself (Anya in the bunny suit) or the one with the ghostly
    > Native Americans. She's highly amused at Spike getting filled with
    > arrows while tied to a chair.

    I remember that one but it's been a while back. I liked it. I also have
    been going back and rewatching the older episodes (late night try and
    go to sleep thing) and I'm in season 2. Just saw one of my all time
    favorite episodes "Passion", which I thought was a pivotal moment for
    Buffy, showing they could do serious as well as funny.

    Knight37
  10. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    Mark Morrison wrote:

    > Bunnies aren't just cute like everybody supposes !
    > They got them hoppy legs and twitchy little noses !
    > And what's with all the carrots ?
    > What do they need such good eyesight for anyway ?
    > Bunnies ! Bunnies ! It must be BUNNIES !

    Great show. After Buffy and Angel ended, I had little reason to watch
    TV (but eventually I got World of Warcraft and I had no time for TV
    anyway). Firefly was cool in its own way, too- but doomed from the
    start (looking forward to the movie, though, Serenity).
  11. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    littlemute wrote:
    > This looks like the 'next big thing' in the CRPG area (especially
    > single player) and I wanted to get some impressions of what you folks
    > have seen so far. I'm an jaded mofo yet I feel the great weight of
    > can't wait for this title, mostly due to the sandboxing potential and
    > the fact that from what I've seen, the ES team is dedicated to creating
    > a living world with animals and people that actually do stuff rather
    > than an entire continent of store manniquins (moody dark elf store
    > manniquins at that!).

    You know, I'm excited about this one too. Like others have mentioned
    it sounds like the world is going to be more Gothic-esque, which could
    be amazing. However, I'm worried about something... I'm concerned that
    both Oblivion and Gothic III are going to sacrifice scope and length
    for improved production values.

    I forgave Morrowind's inadequacies (deadish world, deadish NPCs)
    because the gameworld was just so huge. It really felt like something
    to discover a dungeon you'd never seen before out in the middle of
    nowhere.

    If both games are able to present at least a Gothic II-sized world and
    still pack in all the features they're claiming, Oblivion will be a
    must-buy-and-play-ASAP title.

    (Oh, and for the record, I liked Morrowind's levelling/skilling system.
    Took a while to get used to, but once I understood it, it was easy to
    shape my characters exactly the way I wanted.)
  12. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    Memnoch wrote:
    > Unbalanced or not it did make sense that if you practised with a sword you got
    > better at using a sword. Other games don't make sense in that you could do the
    > same and suddenly it would mean you could run faster or read another language.

    I fall in the camp of "which is more fun" every time over "which is
    more realistic." To me it's just more fun to have skill points awarded
    for doing stuff and get to spend them however I want. It's one of the
    things I dislike about DS2, but at least there is the skill tree now
    and you can spend points in order to get the various skills and powers
    in addition to the skills that level up from use. In that regard it's a
    major improvement over DS1.

    Knight37
  13. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    I can't think of a better reason to upgrade. What are you going to
    wait until there's a new version of Excel? If Doom 3 didn't do it, or
    Halflife 2 (or the Vampire game), what's it' going to take to justify
    an upgrade?
  14. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    Knight37 wrote:
    > Memnoch wrote:
    > > Unbalanced or not it did make sense that if you practised with a sword you got
    > > better at using a sword. Other games don't make sense in that you could do the
    > > same and suddenly it would mean you could run faster or read another language.
    >
    > I fall in the camp of "which is more fun" every time over "which is
    > more realistic." To me it's just more fun to have skill points awarded
    > for doing stuff and get to spend them however I want. It's one of the
    > things I dislike about DS2, but at least there is the skill tree now
    > and you can spend points in order to get the various skills and powers
    > in addition to the skills that level up from use. In that regard it's a
    > major improvement over DS1.
    >
    > Knight37

    Not me, I like the way Morrowind is (without the levels).
    Immersiveness is something I always appreciate. If I use a sword for 1
    month, that doesn't make me use a bow any better. Morrowind system is
    just fine, you use a sword, you get better at it. What I didn't like
    is the level thing.
    Another thing I didn't like about Morrowind is that creatures adapted
    to your level. So, if I was level 1 and decided to go around the
    world, I'll be seeing level 1 creatures everywhere, but if I was lvl
    100, then everything around me would be lvl 100. Forget that, set
    creatures in the environment, and if I'm stupid enough to wander where
    I shouldn't, so be it. Don't artificially restrict me in where I
    should be, but don't change the world around me just because I am
    'level 5'.
  15. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    Nostromo wrote:
    > I still don't get the yanks' association with the Gulf War with this gem of
    > a series - it's sci-fi ffs! The fact you let Fox kill it because of your own
    > stoopid fears & prejudice (not to mention there goes "Freedom of Expression"
    > down the toilet every time you let politicians & businessmen do this to you)
    > is just pathetic & sad.

    I have no idea what you're talking about here. I even googled a bit
    and I still don't know what you're talking about. Firefly was canceled
    because people didn't watch it. (Or not enough people watched it,
    anyway.)

    [begin rant]
    My wife keeps saying "If networks would just produce quality
    programming, people would watch it!" But I disagree. Networks don't
    care how smart or innovative their programming is- they just care that
    people are watching the commercials. Also, networks LIKE shows that
    generate controversy, because that gets viewers- temporarily anyway.

    The reason we have 1,001 reality shows, and "talent" contests, and 23
    spin-offs of Law & Order and CSI is because that's what the majority of
    viewers want to see. If Firefly ever got American Idol's numbers, I
    promise you that show would be on today.

    This applies to all other mass media. Why does Hollywood keep making
    dreadful comic book movies, sequels to mediocre movies, and remakes of
    films that have already been done? Why do The Sims and its expansion
    packs occupy 5 of the top 10 PC game sales slots week after week after
    week? Why were there 32,000 World War II and Vietnam FPS games
    released this year and only 3 RPGs? Why do radio stations only play
    stuff you've already heard a thousand times before?
    [end rant]

    Firefly was a good show though... great characters and dialogue, as
    usual for Mr. Wheadon.
  16. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    On 20 Sep 2005 06:49:04 -0700, "littlemute" <littlemute@woodenmen.org>
    wrote:

    >This looks like the 'next big thing' in the CRPG area (especially
    >single player) and I wanted to get some impressions of what you folks
    >have seen so far. I'm an jaded mofo yet I feel the great weight of
    >can't wait for this title, mostly due to the sandboxing potential and
    >the fact that from what I've seen, the ES team is dedicated to creating
    >a living world with animals and people that actually do stuff rather
    >than an entire continent of store manniquins (moody dark elf store
    >manniquins at that!).
    >
    >The only complaints I've read are that there's no horse combat and
    >something about a quest compass??

    I want a demo first - I'm no longer prepared to buy a new PC just to
    play the latest Elder Scrolls game. I'll see how it runs on my
    current system before buying.

    --

    Bunnies aren't just cute like everybody supposes !
    They got them hoppy legs and twitchy little noses !
    And what's with all the carrots ?
    What do they need such good eyesight for anyway ?
    Bunnies ! Bunnies ! It must be BUNNIES !
  17. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    On 20 Sep 2005 10:32:07 -0700, "Knight37" <knight37m@gmail.com> wrote:

    >
    >wolfing wrote:
    >> Knight37 wrote:
    >> > > As for the skills, I have an old camera that I used for Ultima Online
    >> > > and Morrowind to hold down keys while I sleep and then wake up to 10
    >> > > level ups and 100 skill in sneak or sword if needed! I wonder if
    >> > > there's anything online about the skills sytem for Oblivion yet?
    >>
    >> I wonder when they'll get rid of this. Maybe they should just get rid
    >> of the levels altogether. Instead of a level 10 'jumper' you're just a
    >> guy with 150 jumping skill
    >
    >I would prefer they ditched the whole Elder Scrolls system all
    >together, but I'm realistic and I know that ain't gunna happen. What
    >I'd like to see is a point-buy system and you gain xp for completing
    >quests and killing stuff. You know, like any NORMAL RPG. :) But since
    >that isn't going to happen, they could come up with a better way for
    >the stats to level up over time besides gaining "levels." The way it
    >worked in MW was just insanely unbalanced. Not to mention the magic
    >system was completely borked. But as long as you don't try to "play"
    >the system MW can be pretty fun and so I hope Oblivion just gets it at
    >least that right.

    Unbalanced or not it did make sense that if you practised with a sword you got
    better at using a sword. Other games don't make sense in that you could do the
    same and suddenly it would mean you could run faster or read another language.
  18. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    On 20 Sep 2005 09:53:25 -0700, "Knight37" <knight37m@gmail.com> wrote:

    >
    >Mark Morrison wrote:
    >> I want a demo first - I'm no longer prepared to buy a new PC just to
    >> play the latest Elder Scrolls game. I'll see how it runs on my
    >> current system before buying.
    >
    >I'm almost convinced to buy Oblivion sight unseen. I know I shouldn't,
    >but that's about how I feel about it now.
    >
    >> Bunnies aren't just cute like everybody supposes !
    >> They got them hoppy legs and twitchy little noses !
    >> And what's with all the carrots ?
    >> What do they need such good eyesight for anyway ?
    >> Bunnies ! Bunnies ! It must be BUNNIES !
    >
    >I finally saw the episode where this came from. Hilarious! That was my
    >favorite Buffy yet. That and Evil Willow totally kicked ass. Not to
    >mention the Tabula Rasa episode was great also. I am now about halfway
    >through season 7 so I'm almost to the end, but what a fun ride it's
    >been.

    I loved Tabula Rasa - more laughs in that one ep that in most
    comedies.

    My 6 year old niece is a Buffy fan, and her favourite ep is either
    Fear Itself (Anya in the bunny suit) or the one with the ghostly
    Native Americans. She's highly amused at Spike getting filled with
    arrows while tied to a chair.


    --

    Bunnies aren't just cute like everybody supposes !
    They got them hoppy legs and twitchy little noses !
    And what's with all the carrots ?
    What do they need such good eyesight for anyway ?
    Bunnies ! Bunnies ! It must be BUNNIES !
  19. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    Bitstring <1127229454.452474.288820@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, from
    the wonderful person Knight37 <knight37m@gmail.com> said
    >
    >littlemute wrote:
    >> This looks like the 'next big thing' in the CRPG area (especially
    >> single player) and I wanted to get some impressions of what you folks
    >> have seen so far. I'm an jaded mofo yet I feel the great weight of
    >> can't wait for this title, mostly due to the sandboxing potential and
    >> the fact that from what I've seen, the ES team is dedicated to creating
    >> a living world with animals and people that actually do stuff rather
    >> than an entire continent of store manniquins (moody dark elf store
    >> manniquins at that!).
    >
    >I'm very interested in it so far. I've heard that every NPC is fully
    >voice acted in Oblivion which will be a much needed change from the
    >"signpost" NPC's of Morrowind

    ha, never mind the signpost NPCs, even the signpost =signposts= were
    screwed up (until you installed the user mod). 8>.

    > It sounds like they have seen some of
    >the things Gothic 1 & 2 have done and made some improvements. I'm sure
    >it will still have the ass-tastic "skills get better as you use them"
    >game system (which I hate)

    YMMV, obviously, because I prefer it to the 'hey you got more
    experienced by arrowing 10 orcs, now you can magically achieve +5 in
    lock picking'.

    Yes, it is open to abuse by people swimming upstream all day, but hey
    who cares about what other people do ...

    --
    GSV Three Minds in a Can
    Contact recommends the use of Firefox; SC recommends it at gunpoint.
  20. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    Josh Mayfield wrote:

    > You know, I'm excited about this one too. Like others have mentioned
    > it sounds like the world is going to be more Gothic-esque, which could
    > be amazing. However, I'm worried about something... I'm concerned that
    > both Oblivion and Gothic III are going to sacrifice scope and length
    > for improved production values.
    >
    > I forgave Morrowind's inadequacies (deadish world, deadish NPCs)
    > because the gameworld was just so huge. It really felt like something
    > to discover a dungeon you'd never seen before out in the middle of
    > nowhere.

    Oblivion isn't shrinking, but that's not such great news. In an
    interview, one developers mentioned the world will be a few times
    bigger than MW. But he also said that alot of the wilderness terrain
    was being pre-generated - not handcrafted like Morrowind. There will be
    *more* to explore, but it will be, to a greater extent than in
    Morrowind, semi-random filler. I'm worried that exploration will no
    longer be its own reward.

    Fewer sidequests (confirmed) will compound the problem. In MW, the
    player might take a curcutious land trek to complete a few quests, but
    pick up a few more quests along the way. In Obl vion, the player might
    end up only hitting the roads and wilderness to follow the new "plot
    compass" or (whatever it's called) to a new main-plot or quest-centric
    location. Nothing on the way but monsters and maybe a dungeon or
    something. No sidequests to pick up, and everything too far apart to
    make completing any sidequest you already have impractical.

    And since I'm on a worry rant - what about the setting? The graphics
    will be stunning, but could the Imperial province be bland compared to
    Vvardenfell? Can they really pull off something like the distinct
    regional architecture of the three Great Houses in the Imperial
    province?


    Jacob
  21. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    wolfing <wolfing1@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >Immersiveness is something I always appreciate. If I use a sword for 1
    >month, that doesn't make me use a bow any better. Morrowind system is
    >just fine, you use a sword, you get better at it.

    If you use a sword in Morrowind you soon become insanely good at it and
    combat is no longer challenging. This realism argument is bogus to
    begin with, there's very little you can learn on how to fight better
    with a sword in combat and not die in the process. If you want learn
    how to fight with a sword you need to practice with someone who both
    can teach you something and isn't trying to kill you.

    Ross Ridge

    --
    l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
    [oo][oo] rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
    -()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/u/rridge/
    db //
  22. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    GSV Three Minds in a Can <GSV@quik.clara.co.uk> once tried to test me with:

    > Yes, it is open to abuse by people swimming upstream all day, but hey
    > who cares about what other people do ...

    Yeah but I'm more of a "gamist" rather than "simulationist". I just find it
    more fun to have a solid game system where you spend a specific amount of
    "points" that you earned via questing/killing/whatever and build out the
    character however you want it to without the drudgery of having to be a
    neophyte in whatever skill you happen to desire. Of course, different
    strokes and all and I'm glad that some people enjoyed MW's system, because
    other than that and the cardboard NPCs the game was solid. Well, it had
    pretty outrageous hardware requirements for it's release date also.

    --

    Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com

    Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.
  23. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    "Josh Mayfield" <ultibloo-usenet3@yahoo.com> once tried to test me with:

    >
    > Firefly was a good show though... great characters and dialogue, as
    > usual for Mr. Wheadon.

    I've been meaning to pick up the DVD set and watch it.

    --

    Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com

    Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.
  24. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    On 20 Sep 2005 08:17:34 -0700, "Knight37" <knight37m@gmail.com> wrote:

    >
    >Is there a release date for the PC version yet?
    >

    11/21 AFAIK. The same time as the Xbox360 version... maybe...

    It would be very wise of Bethesda to delay the Xbox360 release by
    about a month for the PC players to find most of the residual bugs,
    before cutting the Gold Xbox360 master.

    They delayed the Xbox release of Morrowind by several months.
    Considering the suspect line-up of release dates of other Xbox360
    games, I would not be the least surprised by a Xbox360 Oblivion
    delay.

    John Lewis
  25. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    "Josh Mayfield" <ultibloo-usenet3@yahoo.com> wrote in
    news:1127260286.660353.314610@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

    > Nostromo wrote:
    >> I still don't get the yanks' association with the Gulf War with this
    >> gem of a series - it's sci-fi ffs! The fact you let Fox kill it
    >> because of your own stoopid fears & prejudice (not to mention there
    >> goes "Freedom of Expression" down the toilet every time you let
    >> politicians & businessmen do this to you) is just pathetic & sad.
    >
    > I have no idea what you're talking about here. I even googled a bit
    > and I still don't know what you're talking about. Firefly was
    > canceled because people didn't watch it. (Or not enough people
    > watched it, anyway.)

    I didn't even know about it outside of a blurb about a year or two ago
    and, even then, it never appeared in my area's TV schedule(s). *shrug*

    (It did appear recently on DVD, though)

    Even so, I'm still a little skeptical...does the writing really compare
    with, say, 'Justice League' or 'Return of the Joker'?

    > [begin rant]
    > My wife keeps saying "If networks would just produce quality
    > programming, people would watch it!" But I disagree. Networks don't
    > care how smart or innovative their programming is- they just care that
    > people are watching the commercials.

    Actually, you're half right. :)

    They're also interested in selling action figures, cards and other
    useless or overpriced junk based on their animated offerings.

    Fortunately, there are some studios that are willing to look beyond such
    petty blandishments and produce something that's honestly entertaining.
    (although this has been known to produce some petty lawsuits from anti-
    animation pundits and those who *still* think that animation is strictly
    for children)

    > Also, networks LIKE shows that
    > generate controversy, because that gets viewers- temporarily anyway.

    Tell that to Mike Judge and the other crewmembers behind Beavis and
    Butthead. }X^Þ

    (Plus there is something to be said for a well-timed fart being funnier
    than 5-10 minutes of cleaning a clogged toilet, for lack of a better
    analogy)

    > The reason we have 1,001 reality shows, and "talent" contests, and 23
    > spin-offs of Law & Order and CSI is because that's what the majority
    > of viewers want to see.

    Or what the networks and studios *THINK* we want to see.

    Not everything the Neilson ratings and marketing departments tell them is
    correct. ^_^;;

    > If Firefly ever got American Idol's numbers,
    > I promise you that show would be on today.

    And yet we, the viewers were able to resurrect Family Guy via our DVD
    purchases.

    As much as I'd like to see some crossover shows and other imaginative
    fare that could be considered comparable to the flash flicks on
    Newgrounds, there are too many stupid people who are all-too-willing to
    whine and/or sue for the most ridiculous of reasons.

    Until those people are publicly shot, burned or otherwise eliminated from
    the gene pool, there will never really be a place for anything
    entertaining (that doesn't slip under the proverbial radar).

    > This applies to all other mass media. Why does Hollywood keep making
    > dreadful comic book movies, sequels to mediocre movies, and remakes of
    > films that have already been done?

    Because it's easier to jump on a bandwagon than buy your own? (or, lat
    least, pay for the gas)

    > Why do The Sims and its expansion
    > packs occupy 5 of the top 10 PC game sales slots week after week after
    > week?

    I don't know, but it's certainly not on *my* hard drive. }:^)

    (I'll stick with the 'stand-alones', thank you very much)

    > Why were there 32,000 World War II and Vietnam FPS games
    > released this year and only 3 RPGs?

    Because it's easier to build a shooting gallery than a theme park?

    It's one thing to hunt and kill 50 ogres with an Uzi but it's quite
    another to flesh out the species with a comprehensive history, individual
    personalities and faults. Even with the number of engines available, the
    game's author will have to be pretty versatile in order to attract and
    keep his/her audiance.

    > Why do radio stations only play
    > stuff you've already heard a thousand times before?
    > [end rant]

    I blame the various middlemen hired by the RIAA to buy out playlists but
    there's also something to be said for station manager or DJ's poor taste.

    > Firefly was a good show though... great characters and dialogue, as
    > usual for Mr. Wheadon.

    To each their own.

    Signed,
    Warewolf
  26. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    On 20 Sep 2005 11:12:15 -0700, Knight37 wrote:

    > I fall in the camp of "which is more fun" every time over "which is
    > more realistic."

    Exactly. Which is why I always preferred the "by-use" system that UO, the
    Elder Scrolls games and a few other titles feature.

    M.
  27. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    "wolfing" <wolfing1@yahoo.com> wrote in
    news:1127249317.908307.317200@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

    >
    > Not me, I like the way Morrowind is (without the levels).
    > Immersiveness is something I always appreciate. If I use a sword for 1
    > month, that doesn't make me use a bow any better. Morrowind system is
    > just fine, you use a sword, you get better at it. What I didn't like
    > is the level thing.
    I would like to see practice and buying lessons balanced. Something like:
    - your current sword proficiency is 20,
    - your current "theoretical" sword skill is 28 (meaning that you know some
    moves valued at 28, but you can't always do them properly).
    Practice will allow you to get closer to 28. For example, 1 units of
    [combat] practice will get you halfway to your theoretical limit. So after
    1 units of practice the proficiency will go to 24 after 2 - to 26, after 3
    - to 27, after 4 - to 27.5 etc...
    Now, let's say you got your level to 27 and if you've found a teacher. You
    can take lesson which will raise your "theoretical" level to 35. You can't
    take more lessons until you raise your proficiency. Obviously, teachers who
    can raise your "theoretical" skill higher become more and more rare. That
    will mean that with practice and lessons one can reach decent sword
    proficiency relatively easy, but getting a real expert will be really hard.

    This approach sort of sounds nice, but it may backfire by making "jack-of-
    all-trades" the most common and practical character. Maybe practical
    proficiency should drop if one is not using skill. At some point one will
    have only so much time to maintain his current set skills at their current
    level :)


    > Another thing I didn't like about Morrowind is that creatures adapted
    > to your level. So, if I was level 1 and decided to go around the
    > world, I'll be seeing level 1 creatures everywhere, but if I was lvl
    > 100, then everything around me would be lvl 100. Forget that, set
    > creatures in the environment, and if I'm stupid enough to wander where
    > I shouldn't, so be it. Don't artificially restrict me in where I
    > should be, but don't change the world around me just because I am
    > 'level 5'.
    Yeah, I hate that too. Level of creature attached to the area seems to be
    more sensible, though I'd prefer to have some clues what to expect where.
    For example, I'd not expect to meet level 999 monster just outside of the
    capital city. But if everybody is saying that 2 groups of renown heroes has
    tried to take dark citadel and has not returned, I'd be wary about what I
    can meet there.

    Alex.
  28. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    John Lewis wrote:
    > On 20 Sep 2005 08:17:34 -0700, "Knight37" <knight37m@gmail.com> wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >Is there a release date for the PC version yet?
    > >
    >
    > 11/21 AFAIK. The same time as the Xbox360 version... maybe...
    >
    > It would be very wise of Bethesda to delay the Xbox360 release by
    > about a month for the PC players to find most of the residual bugs,
    > before cutting the Gold Xbox360 master.
    >
    > They delayed the Xbox release of Morrowind by several months.
    > Considering the suspect line-up of release dates of other Xbox360
    > games, I would not be the least surprised by a Xbox360 Oblivion
    > delay.

    And miss the launch date? I would be very surprised. Oblivion stands a
    very good chance of being a huge seller on launch day since it's the
    only RPG available at launch AFAIK.

    Knight37
  29. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    Greg Johnson wrote:
    > On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 05:28:48 GMT, "James Gassaway" <dtravel@sonic.net>
    > wrote:
    >
    > >"Greg Johnson" <greg.gsj@gmail.com> wrote in message
    > >news:5a61j1te2hjp27fs7s7r7lil5c9ac49knp@4ax.com...
    >
    > >> Only if there was someone watching who was bad enough at sneak
    > >> themselves that you could successfully hide from them. You only got
    > >> points for a successful hide attempt, failed ones were worth nothing. Of
    > >> course, most shopkeepers looked away now and then, and didn't have uber
    > >> stealth skills, so sneaking in a shop could gain you skill.
    > >
    > >You could also raise it by sneaking around in the wilderness. It may not
    > >raise your skill by much to sneak past a rat, but do it enough times....
    >
    > No, that was how the system was broken; 1 successful attempt was worth
    > exactly the same, whether you were hiding from a highly trained assassin
    > or a mudcrab. This meant that once your skills got to a reasonable
    > level, it became much easier to increase them. To fix the system, it
    > would have made sense to have different successes provide different
    > amounts of experience according to the level of difficulty(with the
    > easiest successes quickly dropping to 0), and let each level of skill
    > require more than the last. This would let you get to low levels of
    > skill quickly, but higher levels would actually need effort on the
    > player's part.
    >
    > --
    > Greg Johnson
    Exactly, improvement should come from challenge. If I know nothing
    about swords, swinging a sword at a scarecrow could earn me just a few
    basic skill advances, to learn more I need a better challenge. Kind of
    like what they do in MMORPGs, 'grey' opponents yield no exp, 'green'
    yield little, 'blue' yield some, 'white' yield good, etc.
    Incorporate challenge in the skill advancement equation, and remove the
    levels, and Morrowind's system should be just fine
  30. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    Gerry Quinn wrote:
    > In article <1127235205.805483.255710@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
    > knight37m@gmail.com says...
    > >
    > > Mark Morrison wrote:
    > > > I want a demo first - I'm no longer prepared to buy a new PC just to
    > > > play the latest Elder Scrolls game. I'll see how it runs on my
    > > > current system before buying.
    > >
    > > I'm almost convinced to buy Oblivion sight unseen. I know I shouldn't,
    > > but that's about how I feel about it now.
    >
    > With CRPGs, it's usually wise to wait for the patch. I might give
    > Dungeon Siege a try in a while.

    I recommend Dungeon Siege 2 over the first one.

    > Plus when everyone has stopped talking about the game, you can look up
    > spoilers in Google Groups, but you don't see them by accident ;-)

    Heh.

    Knight37
  31. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    Yeah, didn't know about the random generation stuff. How many areas of
    morrowind were just trackless waste with those leaf-less trees and had
    nothing anywhere? Someone, some poor bastard, had to go in and fill
    out all those areas with rocks, trees, a cliff racer
    here..there...everywhere. So maybe the random areas are a good
    thing...as long as we don't KNOW that it's being randomly generated or
    there is a good return on time invested in random areas.

    I see Oblivion as an engine, the modding community and I'll bet
    Bethesda itself will be using this engine for awhile to tell more
    stories, more quests more stuff especially with the fact that the
    console release will have an internet connection. They may be focused
    this time around with getting one, easier to follow, story told this
    time. Hell I had my fortress started with Redoran before I ever
    finished that Andrano Tomb/Skull mission that starts to open up the
    main plot. I just had no idea what to do to. Now I'm sort of afraid
    to wander around and murder stuff because it's frustrating to get
    missions where you can get the mission and click and get the reward in
    the same conversation.

    People had a lot of fun with modding morrowind (myself included) but I
    think from what we've seen of the new tools, it appears to be a lot
    more like building stuff for Quake 3 or UT2004 than the lego-drop
    editor. This makes the learning curve over what a lot of casual modders
    that just want to make their own house will deal with (finding leaks,
    24 hours for one area to compile, etc.) but those slightly more
    hardcore will be able to create amazing stuff that players won't just
    say: 'oh here's a dungeon that's from a mod, it looks like all the
    other dungeons...'
  32. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    Knight37 wrote:
    > Gerry Quinn wrote:
    > > In article <1127235205.805483.255710@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
    > > knight37m@gmail.com says...
    > > >
    > > > Mark Morrison wrote:
    > > > > I want a demo first - I'm no longer prepared to buy a new PC just to
    > > > > play the latest Elder Scrolls game. I'll see how it runs on my
    > > > > current system before buying.
    > > >
    > > > I'm almost convinced to buy Oblivion sight unseen. I know I shouldn't,
    > > > but that's about how I feel about it now.
    > >
    > > With CRPGs, it's usually wise to wait for the patch. I might give
    > > Dungeon Siege a try in a while.
    >
    > I recommend Dungeon Siege 2 over the first one.
    >
    And I recommend not buying over getting DS2 :) but that's just me, I
    hate games where saving a game is not really saving a game
  33. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    Thus spake "littlemute" <littlemute@woodenmen.org>, 20 Sep 2005 08:51:41
    -0700, Anno Domini:

    >As for the skills, I have an old camera that I used for Ultima Online
    >and Morrowind to hold down keys while I sleep and then wake up to 10
    >level ups and 100 skill in sneak or sword if needed!

    And there you have it kids. All you need to know about just how pathetic
    Bethesda's whack-a-mole skill system really is. I'm hoping they change it
    all to combos of at least 2 or 3 buttons. Hope you have 2 or 3 'smart'
    cameras handy ;-p

    --
    A killfile is a friend for life.

    Replace 'spamfree' with the other word for 'maze' to reply via email.
  34. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    "Nostromo" <nostromo@spamfree.net.au> wrote in message
    news:3901j1hh183gg8gnajsgbq57npl2s60fsg@4ax.com...
    > Thus spake "littlemute" <littlemute@woodenmen.org>, 20 Sep 2005 08:51:41
    > -0700, Anno Domini:
    >
    > >As for the skills, I have an old camera that I used for Ultima Online
    > >and Morrowind to hold down keys while I sleep and then wake up to 10
    > >level ups and 100 skill in sneak or sword if needed!
    >
    > And there you have it kids. All you need to know about just how pathetic
    > Bethesda's whack-a-mole skill system really is. I'm hoping they change it
    > all to combos of at least 2 or 3 buttons. Hope you have 2 or 3 'smart'
    > cameras handy ;-p

    It's pathetic because some people abuse it? Why do you care how
    someone else plays? Seriously, play the game your way and enjoy it.
    Other people abusing a system doesn't have any effect on you.

    UO and Morrowind have far more realisitic skill models than any other
    RPGs. I'm glad that they are the way they are and I hope they never
    change. If the best complaint someone can muster is that other people
    abuse it.. that's pretty weak.
  35. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    Jim Vieira <WhiplashrAT@wiDOT.rrDOT.com> wrote:
    >It's pathetic because some people abuse it?

    It's pathetic because Morrowind's skill system is so easily abused that
    it's hard not to.

    >Seriously, play the game your way and enjoy it.

    I did. But then I found I was leveling up way too fast. So I changed
    how I played the game. But I was still leveling up way too fast. So I
    changed how I played the game again. I ended up no longer playing the
    game "my way", and I wasn't enjoying it very much. There are lots of
    good skill-centric chararacter development systems, but Morrowind's is
    the worst I've ever encountered.

    Of course, if you actually took the time to read Nostromo's post you'ld
    have found that he was making a different point.

    Ross Ridge

    --
    l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
    [oo][oo] rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
    -()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/u/rridge/
    db //
  36. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca (Ross Ridge) wrote in
    news:dgq8mm$etd$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca:

    > Jim Vieira <WhiplashrAT@wiDOT.rrDOT.com> wrote:
    >>It's pathetic because some people abuse it?
    >
    > It's pathetic because Morrowind's skill system is so easily abused that
    > it's hard not to.
    >
    >>Seriously, play the game your way and enjoy it.
    >
    > I did. But then I found I was leveling up way too fast. So I changed
    > how I played the game. But I was still leveling up way too fast. So I
    > changed how I played the game again.
    It wasn't that much problem of the system as of the particular numbers.
    With mega-morrowind mod the game was pretty challenging until really late
    stages.

    Alex.
  37. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    Thus spake "Knight37" <knight37m@gmail.com>, 20 Sep 2005 09:53:25 -0700,
    Anno Domini:

    >
    >Mark Morrison wrote:
    >> I want a demo first - I'm no longer prepared to buy a new PC just to
    >> play the latest Elder Scrolls game. I'll see how it runs on my
    >> current system before buying.
    >
    >I'm almost convinced to buy Oblivion sight unseen. I know I shouldn't,
    >but that's about how I feel about it now.

    Tell us how the patching process goes K. I think you'll find that the most
    'challenging' part of the gameplay within the first 3-6 months rofl! ;-p
    *duck*

    --
    A killfile is a friend for life.

    Replace 'spamfree' with the other word for 'maze' to reply via email.
  38. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    Nostromo <nostromo@spamfree.net.au> once tried to test me with:

    > Thus spake "Knight37" <knight37m@gmail.com>, 20 Sep 2005 09:53:25
    > -0700, Anno Domini:
    >
    >>
    >>Mark Morrison wrote:
    >>> I want a demo first - I'm no longer prepared to buy a new PC just to
    >>> play the latest Elder Scrolls game. I'll see how it runs on my
    >>> current system before buying.
    >>
    >>I'm almost convinced to buy Oblivion sight unseen. I know I shouldn't,
    >>but that's about how I feel about it now.
    >
    > Tell us how the patching process goes K. I think you'll find that the
    > most 'challenging' part of the gameplay within the first 3-6 months
    > rofl! ;-p *duck*

    You may be right. MW certainly wasn't a paragon of software engineering.

    --

    Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com

    Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.
  39. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    Thus spake "Josh Mayfield" <ultibloo-usenet3@yahoo.com>, 20 Sep 2005
    10:39:47 -0700, Anno Domini:

    >Firefly was cool in its own way, too- but doomed from the
    >start (looking forward to the movie, though, Serenity).

    I still don't get the yanks' association with the Gulf War with this gem of
    a series - it's sci-fi ffs! The fact you let Fox kill it because of your own
    stoopid fears & prejudice (not to mention there goes "Freedom of Expression"
    down the toilet every time you let politicians & businessmen do this to you)
    is just pathetic & sad. And what's worse, they 'own' the rights, so Joss
    can't even continue to make the series, even though I've heard all the
    actors would jump on the bandwagon in a heartbeat if he did. Sad, sad,
    sad...

    --
    A killfile is a friend for life.

    Replace 'spamfree' with the other word for 'maze' to reply via email.
  40. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    littlemute wrote:
    > Yeah, didn't know about the random generation stuff.

    I don't want to mislead anybody. I didn't read that Oblivion has any
    "on-the-fly" randomly generated maps. The interview (I still can't find
    it again) said that they were randomly generating terrain, but then
    fitting it into the fully . . . um . . .rendered? . . . areas. We'll
    all have identical terrain to explore.
  41. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    Quoth The Raven: Knight37 <knight37m@gmail.com> in
    1127229454.452474.288820@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
    > littlemute wrote:
    >> This looks like the 'next big thing' in the CRPG area (especially
    >> single player) and I wanted to get some impressions of what you folks
    >> have seen so far. I'm an jaded mofo yet I feel the great weight of
    >> can't wait for this title, mostly due to the sandboxing potential and
    >> the fact that from what I've seen, the ES team is dedicated to
    >> creating a living world with animals and people that actually do
    >> stuff rather than an entire continent of store manniquins (moody
    >> dark elf store manniquins at that!).
    >
    > I'm very interested in it so far. I've heard that every NPC is fully
    > voice acted in Oblivion which will be a much needed change from the
    > "signpost" NPC's of Morrowind. It sounds like they have seen some of
    > the things Gothic 1 & 2 have done and made some improvements. I'm sure
    > it will still have the ass-tastic "skills get better as you use them"
    > game system (which I hate) but I can probably overlook that if the
    > game world is highly immersive. With so few other RPGs to look
    > forward to Oblivion will probably be a must buy for me.
    >
    > Is there a release date for the PC version yet?
    >
    >> The only complaints I've read are that there's no horse combat and
    >> something about a quest compass??
    >
    > No horse combat is really no big deal to me.
    >
    > Knight37

    i have seen horses being ridden in screenshots, i assume that means you
    can fight while on one

    --
    Glibido: All talk and no action.

    Take out the _CURSING to reply to me
  42. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    "Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSING@dodo.com.au> once tried to test me with:

    >> No horse combat is really no big deal to me.
    >>
    >> Knight37
    >
    > i have seen horses being ridden in screenshots, i assume that means you
    > can fight while on one
    >

    Why would you assume that? Maybe the horses are just for transportation?

    --

    Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com

    Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.
  43. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    Highlandish wrote:
    > Quoth The Raven: Knight37 <knight37m@gmail.com> in
    > Xns96D7DC0B876DDknight37m@130.133.1.4
    > > "Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSING@dodo.com.au> once tried to test me
    > > with:
    > >
    > >>> No horse combat is really no big deal to me.
    > >>>
    > >>> Knight37
    > >>
    > >> i have seen horses being ridden in screenshots, i assume that means
    > >> you can fight while on one
    > >>
    > >
    > > Why would you assume that? Maybe the horses are just for
    > > transportation?
    >
    > like the stilt riders? you click on the horse and select you destination
    > to appear at?

    No, like you can "drive" them, but you can't attack from them. In other
    words, you can't attack unless you dismount. I don't know if that's how
    Oblivion is going to do it, but that's certainly one way to do it
    without allowing attack while on horse. I didn't mention the
    no-attack-on-horse thing, that was brought up by the OP.

    Knight37
  44. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    Quoth The Raven: littlemute <littlemute@woodenmen.org> in
    1127231501.273804.155050@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
    > Riding through the fields cutting down peasants on horseback has a
    > certain appeal though.
    >
    > EB has it listed for 11/21. That's pushing it close to the Xmas
    > bubble but from what I've read it's pretty close to done.
    >
    > As for the skills, I have an old camera that I used for Ultima Online
    > and Morrowind to hold down keys while I sleep and then wake up to 10
    > level ups and 100 skill in sneak or sword if needed! I wonder if
    > there's anything online about the skills sytem for Oblivion yet?
    >
    > The modding is going to be tough having to voice all NPC's if one
    > wanted to make quests, but man that's a great addition. It's one of
    > the things that put Jagged Alliance into the stratosphere for
    > immersion. "There ain't nuthin' down there for you!" and "I'm
    > looking to get in on a good shootin'"

    did holding down keys while sneaking really work for usage gained
    skills? bugger I wish I had thought of that, I mightn't have used
    console cheats.

    --
    "Mosquitoes have caused more deaths than all the wars... Guppies devour
    mosquito larvae so may be the best defense against them.... We budget
    billions for military systems. Preposterous! Spend it on guppies!" -
    letter to the editor, Eugene newspaper

    Take out the _CURSING to reply to me
  45. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 00:15:18 +0000 (UTC), rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
    (Ross Ridge) wrote:

    >Jim Vieira <WhiplashrAT@wiDOT.rrDOT.com> wrote:
    >>It's pathetic because some people abuse it?
    >
    >It's pathetic because Morrowind's skill system is so easily abused that
    >it's hard not to.
    >
    >>Seriously, play the game your way and enjoy it.
    >
    >I did. But then I found I was leveling up way too fast. So I changed
    >how I played the game. But I was still leveling up way too fast. So I
    >changed how I played the game again. I ended up no longer playing the
    >game "my way", and I wasn't enjoying it very much. There are lots of
    >good skill-centric chararacter development systems, but Morrowind's is
    >the worst I've ever encountered.
    >
    >Of course, if you actually took the time to read Nostromo's post you'ld
    >have found that he was making a different point.
    >
    > Ross Ridge

    There are mods out for Morrowind that slowed down advancement, IIRC.
    So you'd need 15 points to level up, and not 10, and so on.

    --

    Bunnies aren't just cute like everybody supposes !
    They got them hoppy legs and twitchy little noses !
    And what's with all the carrots ?
    What do they need such good eyesight for anyway ?
    Bunnies ! Bunnies ! It must be BUNNIES !
  46. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    Quoth The Raven: littlemute <littlemute@woodenmen.org> in
    1127224144.558161.193890@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com
    > This looks like the 'next big thing' in the CRPG area (especially
    > single player) and I wanted to get some impressions of what you folks
    > have seen so far. I'm an jaded mofo yet I feel the great weight of
    > can't wait for this title, mostly due to the sandboxing potential and
    > the fact that from what I've seen, the ES team is dedicated to
    > creating a living world with animals and people that actually do
    > stuff rather than an entire continent of store manniquins (moody dark
    > elf store manniquins at that!).
    >
    > The only complaints I've read are that there's no horse combat and
    > something about a quest compass??

    I've seen screenies of horses being ridden, I assume you can fight while
    riding.

    I'm gunna have to finish GW real soon then, morrowind took me 6 months
    of solid play before I decided to take on the main quest, this one is
    going to be bigger. of course that was mostly because of the novelty of
    the game, this time it might not be so new a concept for me that I'll
    just fly through it with no immersion.

    --
    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought
    without accepting it. - Aristotle (384 BC - 322 BC)

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    Quoth The Raven: wolfing <wolfing1@yahoo.com> in
    1127236996.358810.131980@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com
    > Knight37 wrote:
    >>> As for the skills, I have an old camera that I used for Ultima
    >>> Online and Morrowind to hold down keys while I sleep and then wake
    >>> up to 10 level ups and 100 skill in sneak or sword if needed! I
    >>> wonder if there's anything online about the skills sytem for
    >>> Oblivion yet?
    >
    > I wonder when they'll get rid of this. Maybe they should just get
    > rid of the levels altogether. Instead of a level 10 'jumper' you're
    > just a guy with 150 jumping skill

    I could jump from one end of morrowind to another in a single leap after
    all the training I gave my guy. I was in the clouds in a few seconds,
    and I just hovered with the feather spell over where I wanted to land
    until I finally dropped. cliff racers never bothered me that way.
    incidentally I'm glad to hear they're gone in oblivion

    --
    It's a myth that there's a "curse of King Tut's tomb" and 'most ' of
    the people who were present at the opening of the tomb died swift,
    horrible deaths. Of the 22 present at it's opening, 21 were alive 10
    years later

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  48. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    Quoth The Raven: Knight37 <knight37m@gmail.com> in
    1127239934.965836.323790@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
    > Memnoch wrote:
    >> Unbalanced or not it did make sense that if you practised with a
    >> sword you got better at using a sword. Other games don't make sense
    >> in that you could do the same and suddenly it would mean you could
    >> run faster or read another language.
    >
    > I fall in the camp of "which is more fun" every time over "which is
    > more realistic." To me it's just more fun to have skill points awarded
    > for doing stuff and get to spend them however I want. It's one of the
    > things I dislike about DS2, but at least there is the skill tree now
    > and you can spend points in order to get the various skills and powers
    > in addition to the skills that level up from use. In that regard it's
    > a major improvement over DS1.
    >
    > Knight37

    nah, I'm a usage fan, in GW I always have spare skill points left over
    not being used and spent on useless skills. thankfully you can take them
    back any time, but at least in ES system, I don't have to park skill
    points where I don't want them. to get better as I play the way I play
    sound and works a lot better for me.

    --
    "Bother," said Pooh, as he walked through the security beam.

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  49. Archived from groups: (More info?)

    Quoth The Raven: Mark Morrison <drdpikeuk@aol.com> in
    3tg0j1d106k63uf7jcj01m4gq86n01d9dv@4ax.com
    > On 20 Sep 2005 09:53:25 -0700, "Knight37" <knight37m@gmail.com> wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> Mark Morrison wrote:
    >>> I want a demo first - I'm no longer prepared to buy a new PC just to
    >>> play the latest Elder Scrolls game. I'll see how it runs on my
    >>> current system before buying.
    >>
    >> I'm almost convinced to buy Oblivion sight unseen. I know I
    >> shouldn't, but that's about how I feel about it now.
    >>
    >>> Bunnies aren't just cute like everybody supposes !
    >>> They got them hoppy legs and twitchy little noses !
    >>> And what's with all the carrots ?
    >>> What do they need such good eyesight for anyway ?
    >>> Bunnies ! Bunnies ! It must be BUNNIES !
    >>
    >> I finally saw the episode where this came from. Hilarious! That was
    >> my favorite Buffy yet. That and Evil Willow totally kicked ass. Not
    >> to mention the Tabula Rasa episode was great also. I am now about
    >> halfway through season 7 so I'm almost to the end, but what a fun
    >> ride it's been.
    >
    > I loved Tabula Rasa - more laughs in that one ep that in most
    > comedies.
    >
    > My 6 year old niece is a Buffy fan, and her favourite ep is either
    > Fear Itself (Anya in the bunny suit) or the one with the ghostly
    > Native Americans. She's highly amused at Spike getting filled with
    > arrows while tied to a chair.


    I have all 7 seasons in box sets, any anya centric episode is my
    favourite, she is gorgeous
    --
    Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person
    who doesn't get it.

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