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Oblivion: any thoughts?

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Anonymous
September 20, 2005 10:49:04 AM

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This looks like the 'next big thing' in the CRPG area (especially
single player) and I wanted to get some impressions of what you folks
have seen so far. I'm an jaded mofo yet I feel the great weight of
can't wait for this title, mostly due to the sandboxing potential and
the fact that from what I've seen, the ES team is dedicated to creating
a living world with animals and people that actually do stuff rather
than an entire continent of store manniquins (moody dark elf store
manniquins at that!).

The only complaints I've read are that there's no horse combat and
something about a quest compass??

More about : oblivion thoughts

Anonymous
September 20, 2005 11:00:49 AM

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If they could only add online play to this game, it would be even
better. It would be awesome to travel around this world with a buddy
or two.

littlemute wrote:
> This looks like the 'next big thing' in the CRPG area (especially
> single player) and I wanted to get some impressions of what you folks
> have seen so far. I'm an jaded mofo yet I feel the great weight of
> can't wait for this title, mostly due to the sandboxing potential and
> the fact that from what I've seen, the ES team is dedicated to creating
> a living world with animals and people that actually do stuff rather
> than an entire continent of store manniquins (moody dark elf store
> manniquins at that!).
>
> The only complaints I've read are that there's no horse combat and
> something about a quest compass??
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 11:34:48 AM

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Why not just play Diablo, Everquest, Ultima Online, World of Warcraft
or Guild Wars?

The whole point of the design is a single player experience where you
can play in a big-ass world without all the other people around.
Related resources
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 12:17:34 PM

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littlemute wrote:
> This looks like the 'next big thing' in the CRPG area (especially
> single player) and I wanted to get some impressions of what you folks
> have seen so far. I'm an jaded mofo yet I feel the great weight of
> can't wait for this title, mostly due to the sandboxing potential and
> the fact that from what I've seen, the ES team is dedicated to creating
> a living world with animals and people that actually do stuff rather
> than an entire continent of store manniquins (moody dark elf store
> manniquins at that!).

I'm very interested in it so far. I've heard that every NPC is fully
voice acted in Oblivion which will be a much needed change from the
"signpost" NPC's of Morrowind. It sounds like they have seen some of
the things Gothic 1 & 2 have done and made some improvements. I'm sure
it will still have the ass-tastic "skills get better as you use them"
game system (which I hate) but I can probably overlook that if the game
world is highly immersive. With so few other RPGs to look forward to
Oblivion will probably be a must buy for me.

Is there a release date for the PC version yet?

> The only complaints I've read are that there's no horse combat and
> something about a quest compass??

No horse combat is really no big deal to me.

Knight37
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 12:51:41 PM

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Riding through the fields cutting down peasants on horseback has a
certain appeal though.

EB has it listed for 11/21. That's pushing it close to the Xmas bubble
but from what I've read it's pretty close to done.

As for the skills, I have an old camera that I used for Ultima Online
and Morrowind to hold down keys while I sleep and then wake up to 10
level ups and 100 skill in sneak or sword if needed! I wonder if
there's anything online about the skills sytem for Oblivion yet?

The modding is going to be tough having to voice all NPC's if one
wanted to make quests, but man that's a great addition. It's one of
the things that put Jagged Alliance into the stratosphere for
immersion. "There ain't nuthin' down there for you!" and "I'm looking
to get in on a good shootin'"
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 1:48:24 PM

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littlemute wrote:
> Riding through the fields cutting down peasants on horseback has a
> certain appeal though.
>
> EB has it listed for 11/21. That's pushing it close to the Xmas bubble
> but from what I've read it's pretty close to done.

Cool, right before the Xbox 360 launch then (11/22). I was worried they
were going to push it back until after the 360 version to try and sell
more 360's. This is good news.

> As for the skills, I have an old camera that I used for Ultima Online
> and Morrowind to hold down keys while I sleep and then wake up to 10
> level ups and 100 skill in sneak or sword if needed! I wonder if
> there's anything online about the skills sytem for Oblivion yet?

LOL. I guess now is the time to be doing some research about this game
but all the bits I've seen so far look very promising.

> The modding is going to be tough having to voice all NPC's if one
> wanted to make quests, but man that's a great addition. It's one of
> the things that put Jagged Alliance into the stratosphere for
> immersion. "There ain't nuthin' down there for you!" and "I'm looking
> to get in on a good shootin'"

I imagine that for modding there will be some kind of conversation
system that doesn't require voice work. I don't expect many mods to
have full voice work and the ones that do probably will have mediocre
at best voice work. :) 

Knight37
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 1:53:25 PM

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Mark Morrison wrote:
> I want a demo first - I'm no longer prepared to buy a new PC just to
> play the latest Elder Scrolls game. I'll see how it runs on my
> current system before buying.

I'm almost convinced to buy Oblivion sight unseen. I know I shouldn't,
but that's about how I feel about it now.

> Bunnies aren't just cute like everybody supposes !
> They got them hoppy legs and twitchy little noses !
> And what's with all the carrots ?
> What do they need such good eyesight for anyway ?
> Bunnies ! Bunnies ! It must be BUNNIES !

I finally saw the episode where this came from. Hilarious! That was my
favorite Buffy yet. That and Evil Willow totally kicked ass. Not to
mention the Tabula Rasa episode was great also. I am now about halfway
through season 7 so I'm almost to the end, but what a fun ride it's
been.

Knight37
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 2:23:16 PM

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Knight37 wrote:
> > As for the skills, I have an old camera that I used for Ultima Online
> > and Morrowind to hold down keys while I sleep and then wake up to 10
> > level ups and 100 skill in sneak or sword if needed! I wonder if
> > there's anything online about the skills sytem for Oblivion yet?

I wonder when they'll get rid of this. Maybe they should just get rid
of the levels altogether. Instead of a level 10 'jumper' you're just a
guy with 150 jumping skill
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 2:32:07 PM

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wolfing wrote:
> Knight37 wrote:
> > > As for the skills, I have an old camera that I used for Ultima Online
> > > and Morrowind to hold down keys while I sleep and then wake up to 10
> > > level ups and 100 skill in sneak or sword if needed! I wonder if
> > > there's anything online about the skills sytem for Oblivion yet?
>
> I wonder when they'll get rid of this. Maybe they should just get rid
> of the levels altogether. Instead of a level 10 'jumper' you're just a
> guy with 150 jumping skill

I would prefer they ditched the whole Elder Scrolls system all
together, but I'm realistic and I know that ain't gunna happen. What
I'd like to see is a point-buy system and you gain xp for completing
quests and killing stuff. You know, like any NORMAL RPG. :)  But since
that isn't going to happen, they could come up with a better way for
the stats to level up over time besides gaining "levels." The way it
worked in MW was just insanely unbalanced. Not to mention the magic
system was completely borked. But as long as you don't try to "play"
the system MW can be pretty fun and so I hope Oblivion just gets it at
least that right.

Knight37
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 2:39:43 PM

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Mark Morrison wrote:
> I loved Tabula Rasa - more laughs in that one ep that in most
> comedies.

I loved Spike thinking that Giles was his dad. That part was hilarious.
Oh and "I'm a vampire with a soul.", "Vampire with a soul? How stupid
is that?"

> My 6 year old niece is a Buffy fan, and her favourite ep is either
> Fear Itself (Anya in the bunny suit) or the one with the ghostly
> Native Americans. She's highly amused at Spike getting filled with
> arrows while tied to a chair.

I remember that one but it's been a while back. I liked it. I also have
been going back and rewatching the older episodes (late night try and
go to sleep thing) and I'm in season 2. Just saw one of my all time
favorite episodes "Passion", which I thought was a pivotal moment for
Buffy, showing they could do serious as well as funny.

Knight37
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 2:39:47 PM

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Mark Morrison wrote:

> Bunnies aren't just cute like everybody supposes !
> They got them hoppy legs and twitchy little noses !
> And what's with all the carrots ?
> What do they need such good eyesight for anyway ?
> Bunnies ! Bunnies ! It must be BUNNIES !

Great show. After Buffy and Angel ended, I had little reason to watch
TV (but eventually I got World of Warcraft and I had no time for TV
anyway). Firefly was cool in its own way, too- but doomed from the
start (looking forward to the movie, though, Serenity).
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 2:47:52 PM

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littlemute wrote:
> This looks like the 'next big thing' in the CRPG area (especially
> single player) and I wanted to get some impressions of what you folks
> have seen so far. I'm an jaded mofo yet I feel the great weight of
> can't wait for this title, mostly due to the sandboxing potential and
> the fact that from what I've seen, the ES team is dedicated to creating
> a living world with animals and people that actually do stuff rather
> than an entire continent of store manniquins (moody dark elf store
> manniquins at that!).

You know, I'm excited about this one too. Like others have mentioned
it sounds like the world is going to be more Gothic-esque, which could
be amazing. However, I'm worried about something... I'm concerned that
both Oblivion and Gothic III are going to sacrifice scope and length
for improved production values.

I forgave Morrowind's inadequacies (deadish world, deadish NPCs)
because the gameworld was just so huge. It really felt like something
to discover a dungeon you'd never seen before out in the middle of
nowhere.

If both games are able to present at least a Gothic II-sized world and
still pack in all the features they're claiming, Oblivion will be a
must-buy-and-play-ASAP title.

(Oh, and for the record, I liked Morrowind's levelling/skilling system.
Took a while to get used to, but once I understood it, it was easy to
shape my characters exactly the way I wanted.)
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 3:12:15 PM

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Memnoch wrote:
> Unbalanced or not it did make sense that if you practised with a sword you got
> better at using a sword. Other games don't make sense in that you could do the
> same and suddenly it would mean you could run faster or read another language.

I fall in the camp of "which is more fun" every time over "which is
more realistic." To me it's just more fun to have skill points awarded
for doing stuff and get to spend them however I want. It's one of the
things I dislike about DS2, but at least there is the skill tree now
and you can spend points in order to get the various skills and powers
in addition to the skills that level up from use. In that regard it's a
major improvement over DS1.

Knight37
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 4:32:15 PM

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I can't think of a better reason to upgrade. What are you going to
wait until there's a new version of Excel? If Doom 3 didn't do it, or
Halflife 2 (or the Vampire game), what's it' going to take to justify
an upgrade?
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 5:48:37 PM

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Knight37 wrote:
> Memnoch wrote:
> > Unbalanced or not it did make sense that if you practised with a sword you got
> > better at using a sword. Other games don't make sense in that you could do the
> > same and suddenly it would mean you could run faster or read another language.
>
> I fall in the camp of "which is more fun" every time over "which is
> more realistic." To me it's just more fun to have skill points awarded
> for doing stuff and get to spend them however I want. It's one of the
> things I dislike about DS2, but at least there is the skill tree now
> and you can spend points in order to get the various skills and powers
> in addition to the skills that level up from use. In that regard it's a
> major improvement over DS1.
>
> Knight37

Not me, I like the way Morrowind is (without the levels).
Immersiveness is something I always appreciate. If I use a sword for 1
month, that doesn't make me use a bow any better. Morrowind system is
just fine, you use a sword, you get better at it. What I didn't like
is the level thing.
Another thing I didn't like about Morrowind is that creatures adapted
to your level. So, if I was level 1 and decided to go around the
world, I'll be seeing level 1 creatures everywhere, but if I was lvl
100, then everything around me would be lvl 100. Forget that, set
creatures in the environment, and if I'm stupid enough to wander where
I shouldn't, so be it. Don't artificially restrict me in where I
should be, but don't change the world around me just because I am
'level 5'.
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 8:51:26 PM

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Nostromo wrote:
> I still don't get the yanks' association with the Gulf War with this gem of
> a series - it's sci-fi ffs! The fact you let Fox kill it because of your own
> stoopid fears & prejudice (not to mention there goes "Freedom of Expression"
> down the toilet every time you let politicians & businessmen do this to you)
> is just pathetic & sad.

I have no idea what you're talking about here. I even googled a bit
and I still don't know what you're talking about. Firefly was canceled
because people didn't watch it. (Or not enough people watched it,
anyway.)

[begin rant]
My wife keeps saying "If networks would just produce quality
programming, people would watch it!" But I disagree. Networks don't
care how smart or innovative their programming is- they just care that
people are watching the commercials. Also, networks LIKE shows that
generate controversy, because that gets viewers- temporarily anyway.

The reason we have 1,001 reality shows, and "talent" contests, and 23
spin-offs of Law & Order and CSI is because that's what the majority of
viewers want to see. If Firefly ever got American Idol's numbers, I
promise you that show would be on today.

This applies to all other mass media. Why does Hollywood keep making
dreadful comic book movies, sequels to mediocre movies, and remakes of
films that have already been done? Why do The Sims and its expansion
packs occupy 5 of the top 10 PC game sales slots week after week after
week? Why were there 32,000 World War II and Vietnam FPS games
released this year and only 3 RPGs? Why do radio stations only play
stuff you've already heard a thousand times before?
[end rant]

Firefly was a good show though... great characters and dialogue, as
usual for Mr. Wheadon.
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 9:36:51 PM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

On 20 Sep 2005 06:49:04 -0700, "littlemute" <littlemute@woodenmen.org>
wrote:

>This looks like the 'next big thing' in the CRPG area (especially
>single player) and I wanted to get some impressions of what you folks
>have seen so far. I'm an jaded mofo yet I feel the great weight of
>can't wait for this title, mostly due to the sandboxing potential and
>the fact that from what I've seen, the ES team is dedicated to creating
>a living world with animals and people that actually do stuff rather
>than an entire continent of store manniquins (moody dark elf store
>manniquins at that!).
>
>The only complaints I've read are that there's no horse combat and
>something about a quest compass??

I want a demo first - I'm no longer prepared to buy a new PC just to
play the latest Elder Scrolls game. I'll see how it runs on my
current system before buying.

--

Bunnies aren't just cute like everybody supposes !
They got them hoppy legs and twitchy little noses !
And what's with all the carrots ?
What do they need such good eyesight for anyway ?
Bunnies ! Bunnies ! It must be BUNNIES !
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 9:59:47 PM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

On 20 Sep 2005 10:32:07 -0700, "Knight37" <knight37m@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>wolfing wrote:
>> Knight37 wrote:
>> > > As for the skills, I have an old camera that I used for Ultima Online
>> > > and Morrowind to hold down keys while I sleep and then wake up to 10
>> > > level ups and 100 skill in sneak or sword if needed! I wonder if
>> > > there's anything online about the skills sytem for Oblivion yet?
>>
>> I wonder when they'll get rid of this. Maybe they should just get rid
>> of the levels altogether. Instead of a level 10 'jumper' you're just a
>> guy with 150 jumping skill
>
>I would prefer they ditched the whole Elder Scrolls system all
>together, but I'm realistic and I know that ain't gunna happen. What
>I'd like to see is a point-buy system and you gain xp for completing
>quests and killing stuff. You know, like any NORMAL RPG. :)  But since
>that isn't going to happen, they could come up with a better way for
>the stats to level up over time besides gaining "levels." The way it
>worked in MW was just insanely unbalanced. Not to mention the magic
>system was completely borked. But as long as you don't try to "play"
>the system MW can be pretty fun and so I hope Oblivion just gets it at
>least that right.

Unbalanced or not it did make sense that if you practised with a sword you got
better at using a sword. Other games don't make sense in that you could do the
same and suddenly it would mean you could run faster or read another language.
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 10:21:30 PM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

On 20 Sep 2005 09:53:25 -0700, "Knight37" <knight37m@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>Mark Morrison wrote:
>> I want a demo first - I'm no longer prepared to buy a new PC just to
>> play the latest Elder Scrolls game. I'll see how it runs on my
>> current system before buying.
>
>I'm almost convinced to buy Oblivion sight unseen. I know I shouldn't,
>but that's about how I feel about it now.
>
>> Bunnies aren't just cute like everybody supposes !
>> They got them hoppy legs and twitchy little noses !
>> And what's with all the carrots ?
>> What do they need such good eyesight for anyway ?
>> Bunnies ! Bunnies ! It must be BUNNIES !
>
>I finally saw the episode where this came from. Hilarious! That was my
>favorite Buffy yet. That and Evil Willow totally kicked ass. Not to
>mention the Tabula Rasa episode was great also. I am now about halfway
>through season 7 so I'm almost to the end, but what a fun ride it's
>been.

I loved Tabula Rasa - more laughs in that one ep that in most
comedies.

My 6 year old niece is a Buffy fan, and her favourite ep is either
Fear Itself (Anya in the bunny suit) or the one with the ghostly
Native Americans. She's highly amused at Spike getting filled with
arrows while tied to a chair.


--

Bunnies aren't just cute like everybody supposes !
They got them hoppy legs and twitchy little noses !
And what's with all the carrots ?
What do they need such good eyesight for anyway ?
Bunnies ! Bunnies ! It must be BUNNIES !
Anonymous
September 21, 2005 1:02:37 AM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

Bitstring <1127229454.452474.288820@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, from
the wonderful person Knight37 <knight37m@gmail.com> said
>
>littlemute wrote:
>> This looks like the 'next big thing' in the CRPG area (especially
>> single player) and I wanted to get some impressions of what you folks
>> have seen so far. I'm an jaded mofo yet I feel the great weight of
>> can't wait for this title, mostly due to the sandboxing potential and
>> the fact that from what I've seen, the ES team is dedicated to creating
>> a living world with animals and people that actually do stuff rather
>> than an entire continent of store manniquins (moody dark elf store
>> manniquins at that!).
>
>I'm very interested in it so far. I've heard that every NPC is fully
>voice acted in Oblivion which will be a much needed change from the
>"signpost" NPC's of Morrowind

ha, never mind the signpost NPCs, even the signpost =signposts= were
screwed up (until you installed the user mod). 8>.

> It sounds like they have seen some of
>the things Gothic 1 & 2 have done and made some improvements. I'm sure
>it will still have the ass-tastic "skills get better as you use them"
>game system (which I hate)

YMMV, obviously, because I prefer it to the 'hey you got more
experienced by arrowing 10 orcs, now you can magically achieve +5 in
lock picking'.

Yes, it is open to abuse by people swimming upstream all day, but hey
who cares about what other people do ...

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
Contact recommends the use of Firefox; SC recommends it at gunpoint.
September 21, 2005 1:21:38 AM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

Josh Mayfield wrote:

> You know, I'm excited about this one too. Like others have mentioned
> it sounds like the world is going to be more Gothic-esque, which could
> be amazing. However, I'm worried about something... I'm concerned that
> both Oblivion and Gothic III are going to sacrifice scope and length
> for improved production values.
>
> I forgave Morrowind's inadequacies (deadish world, deadish NPCs)
> because the gameworld was just so huge. It really felt like something
> to discover a dungeon you'd never seen before out in the middle of
> nowhere.

Oblivion isn't shrinking, but that's not such great news. In an
interview, one developers mentioned the world will be a few times
bigger than MW. But he also said that alot of the wilderness terrain
was being pre-generated - not handcrafted like Morrowind. There will be
*more* to explore, but it will be, to a greater extent than in
Morrowind, semi-random filler. I'm worried that exploration will no
longer be its own reward.

Fewer sidequests (confirmed) will compound the problem. In MW, the
player might take a curcutious land trek to complete a few quests, but
pick up a few more quests along the way. In Obl vion, the player might
end up only hitting the roads and wilderness to follow the new "plot
compass" or (whatever it's called) to a new main-plot or quest-centric
location. Nothing on the way but monsters and maybe a dungeon or
something. No sidequests to pick up, and everything too far apart to
make completing any sidequest you already have impractical.

And since I'm on a worry rant - what about the setting? The graphics
will be stunning, but could the Imperial province be bland compared to
Vvardenfell? Can they really pull off something like the distinct
regional architecture of the three Great Houses in the Imperial
province?


Jacob
Anonymous
September 21, 2005 2:33:26 AM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

wolfing <wolfing1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Immersiveness is something I always appreciate. If I use a sword for 1
>month, that doesn't make me use a bow any better. Morrowind system is
>just fine, you use a sword, you get better at it.

If you use a sword in Morrowind you soon become insanely good at it and
combat is no longer challenging. This realism argument is bogus to
begin with, there's very little you can learn on how to fight better
with a sword in combat and not die in the process. If you want learn
how to fight with a sword you need to practice with someone who both
can teach you something and isn't trying to kill you.

Ross Ridge

--
l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo] rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/u/rridge/
db //
Anonymous
September 21, 2005 6:37:13 AM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

GSV Three Minds in a Can <GSV@quik.clara.co.uk> once tried to test me with:

> Yes, it is open to abuse by people swimming upstream all day, but hey
> who cares about what other people do ...

Yeah but I'm more of a "gamist" rather than "simulationist". I just find it
more fun to have a solid game system where you spend a specific amount of
"points" that you earned via questing/killing/whatever and build out the
character however you want it to without the drudgery of having to be a
neophyte in whatever skill you happen to desire. Of course, different
strokes and all and I'm glad that some people enjoyed MW's system, because
other than that and the cardboard NPCs the game was solid. Well, it had
pretty outrageous hardware requirements for it's release date also.

--

Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com

Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.
Anonymous
September 21, 2005 6:40:06 AM

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"Josh Mayfield" <ultibloo-usenet3@yahoo.com> once tried to test me with:

>
> Firefly was a good show though... great characters and dialogue, as
> usual for Mr. Wheadon.

I've been meaning to pick up the DVD set and watch it.

--

Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com

Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.
Anonymous
September 21, 2005 6:41:04 AM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

On 20 Sep 2005 08:17:34 -0700, "Knight37" <knight37m@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>Is there a release date for the PC version yet?
>

11/21 AFAIK. The same time as the Xbox360 version... maybe...

It would be very wise of Bethesda to delay the Xbox360 release by
about a month for the PC players to find most of the residual bugs,
before cutting the Gold Xbox360 master.

They delayed the Xbox release of Morrowind by several months.
Considering the suspect line-up of release dates of other Xbox360
games, I would not be the least surprised by a Xbox360 Oblivion
delay.

John Lewis
September 21, 2005 8:15:00 AM

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"Josh Mayfield" <ultibloo-usenet3@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:1127260286.660353.314610@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

> Nostromo wrote:
>> I still don't get the yanks' association with the Gulf War with this
>> gem of a series - it's sci-fi ffs! The fact you let Fox kill it
>> because of your own stoopid fears & prejudice (not to mention there
>> goes "Freedom of Expression" down the toilet every time you let
>> politicians & businessmen do this to you) is just pathetic & sad.
>
> I have no idea what you're talking about here. I even googled a bit
> and I still don't know what you're talking about. Firefly was
> canceled because people didn't watch it. (Or not enough people
> watched it, anyway.)

I didn't even know about it outside of a blurb about a year or two ago
and, even then, it never appeared in my area's TV schedule(s). *shrug*

(It did appear recently on DVD, though)

Even so, I'm still a little skeptical...does the writing really compare
with, say, 'Justice League' or 'Return of the Joker'?

> [begin rant]
> My wife keeps saying "If networks would just produce quality
> programming, people would watch it!" But I disagree. Networks don't
> care how smart or innovative their programming is- they just care that
> people are watching the commercials.

Actually, you're half right. :) 

They're also interested in selling action figures, cards and other
useless or overpriced junk based on their animated offerings.

Fortunately, there are some studios that are willing to look beyond such
petty blandishments and produce something that's honestly entertaining.
(although this has been known to produce some petty lawsuits from anti-
animation pundits and those who *still* think that animation is strictly
for children)

> Also, networks LIKE shows that
> generate controversy, because that gets viewers- temporarily anyway.

Tell that to Mike Judge and the other crewmembers behind Beavis and
Butthead. }X^Þ

(Plus there is something to be said for a well-timed fart being funnier
than 5-10 minutes of cleaning a clogged toilet, for lack of a better
analogy)

> The reason we have 1,001 reality shows, and "talent" contests, and 23
> spin-offs of Law & Order and CSI is because that's what the majority
> of viewers want to see.

Or what the networks and studios *THINK* we want to see.

Not everything the Neilson ratings and marketing departments tell them is
correct. ^_^;;

> If Firefly ever got American Idol's numbers,
> I promise you that show would be on today.

And yet we, the viewers were able to resurrect Family Guy via our DVD
purchases.

As much as I'd like to see some crossover shows and other imaginative
fare that could be considered comparable to the flash flicks on
Newgrounds, there are too many stupid people who are all-too-willing to
whine and/or sue for the most ridiculous of reasons.

Until those people are publicly shot, burned or otherwise eliminated from
the gene pool, there will never really be a place for anything
entertaining (that doesn't slip under the proverbial radar).

> This applies to all other mass media. Why does Hollywood keep making
> dreadful comic book movies, sequels to mediocre movies, and remakes of
> films that have already been done?

Because it's easier to jump on a bandwagon than buy your own? (or, lat
least, pay for the gas)

> Why do The Sims and its expansion
> packs occupy 5 of the top 10 PC game sales slots week after week after
> week?

I don't know, but it's certainly not on *my* hard drive. }:^)

(I'll stick with the 'stand-alones', thank you very much)

> Why were there 32,000 World War II and Vietnam FPS games
> released this year and only 3 RPGs?

Because it's easier to build a shooting gallery than a theme park?

It's one thing to hunt and kill 50 ogres with an Uzi but it's quite
another to flesh out the species with a comprehensive history, individual
personalities and faults. Even with the number of engines available, the
game's author will have to be pretty versatile in order to attract and
keep his/her audiance.

> Why do radio stations only play
> stuff you've already heard a thousand times before?
> [end rant]

I blame the various middlemen hired by the RIAA to buy out playlists but
there's also something to be said for station manager or DJ's poor taste.

> Firefly was a good show though... great characters and dialogue, as
> usual for Mr. Wheadon.

To each their own.

Signed,
Warewolf
Anonymous
September 21, 2005 8:30:27 AM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

On 20 Sep 2005 11:12:15 -0700, Knight37 wrote:

> I fall in the camp of "which is more fun" every time over "which is
> more realistic."

Exactly. Which is why I always preferred the "by-use" system that UO, the
Elder Scrolls games and a few other titles feature.

M.
Anonymous
September 21, 2005 8:58:47 AM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

"wolfing" <wolfing1@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:1127249317.908307.317200@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

>
> Not me, I like the way Morrowind is (without the levels).
> Immersiveness is something I always appreciate. If I use a sword for 1
> month, that doesn't make me use a bow any better. Morrowind system is
> just fine, you use a sword, you get better at it. What I didn't like
> is the level thing.
I would like to see practice and buying lessons balanced. Something like:
- your current sword proficiency is 20,
- your current "theoretical" sword skill is 28 (meaning that you know some
moves valued at 28, but you can't always do them properly).
Practice will allow you to get closer to 28. For example, 1 units of
[combat] practice will get you halfway to your theoretical limit. So after
1 units of practice the proficiency will go to 24 after 2 - to 26, after 3
- to 27, after 4 - to 27.5 etc...
Now, let's say you got your level to 27 and if you've found a teacher. You
can take lesson which will raise your "theoretical" level to 35. You can't
take more lessons until you raise your proficiency. Obviously, teachers who
can raise your "theoretical" skill higher become more and more rare. That
will mean that with practice and lessons one can reach decent sword
proficiency relatively easy, but getting a real expert will be really hard.

This approach sort of sounds nice, but it may backfire by making "jack-of-
all-trades" the most common and practical character. Maybe practical
proficiency should drop if one is not using skill. At some point one will
have only so much time to maintain his current set skills at their current
level :) 



> Another thing I didn't like about Morrowind is that creatures adapted
> to your level. So, if I was level 1 and decided to go around the
> world, I'll be seeing level 1 creatures everywhere, but if I was lvl
> 100, then everything around me would be lvl 100. Forget that, set
> creatures in the environment, and if I'm stupid enough to wander where
> I shouldn't, so be it. Don't artificially restrict me in where I
> should be, but don't change the world around me just because I am
> 'level 5'.
Yeah, I hate that too. Level of creature attached to the area seems to be
more sensible, though I'd prefer to have some clues what to expect where.
For example, I'd not expect to meet level 999 monster just outside of the
capital city. But if everybody is saying that 2 groups of renown heroes has
tried to take dark citadel and has not returned, I'd be wary about what I
can meet there.

Alex.
Anonymous
September 21, 2005 10:16:08 AM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

John Lewis wrote:
> On 20 Sep 2005 08:17:34 -0700, "Knight37" <knight37m@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Is there a release date for the PC version yet?
> >
>
> 11/21 AFAIK. The same time as the Xbox360 version... maybe...
>
> It would be very wise of Bethesda to delay the Xbox360 release by
> about a month for the PC players to find most of the residual bugs,
> before cutting the Gold Xbox360 master.
>
> They delayed the Xbox release of Morrowind by several months.
> Considering the suspect line-up of release dates of other Xbox360
> games, I would not be the least surprised by a Xbox360 Oblivion
> delay.

And miss the launch date? I would be very surprised. Oblivion stands a
very good chance of being a huge seller on launch day since it's the
only RPG available at launch AFAIK.

Knight37
Anonymous
September 21, 2005 10:20:31 AM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

Greg Johnson wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 05:28:48 GMT, "James Gassaway" <dtravel@sonic.net>
> wrote:
>
> >"Greg Johnson" <greg.gsj@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:5a61j1te2hjp27fs7s7r7lil5c9ac49knp@4ax.com...
>
> >> Only if there was someone watching who was bad enough at sneak
> >> themselves that you could successfully hide from them. You only got
> >> points for a successful hide attempt, failed ones were worth nothing. Of
> >> course, most shopkeepers looked away now and then, and didn't have uber
> >> stealth skills, so sneaking in a shop could gain you skill.
> >
> >You could also raise it by sneaking around in the wilderness. It may not
> >raise your skill by much to sneak past a rat, but do it enough times....
>
> No, that was how the system was broken; 1 successful attempt was worth
> exactly the same, whether you were hiding from a highly trained assassin
> or a mudcrab. This meant that once your skills got to a reasonable
> level, it became much easier to increase them. To fix the system, it
> would have made sense to have different successes provide different
> amounts of experience according to the level of difficulty(with the
> easiest successes quickly dropping to 0), and let each level of skill
> require more than the last. This would let you get to low levels of
> skill quickly, but higher levels would actually need effort on the
> player's part.
>
> --
> Greg Johnson
Exactly, improvement should come from challenge. If I know nothing
about swords, swinging a sword at a scarecrow could earn me just a few
basic skill advances, to learn more I need a better challenge. Kind of
like what they do in MMORPGs, 'grey' opponents yield no exp, 'green'
yield little, 'blue' yield some, 'white' yield good, etc.
Incorporate challenge in the skill advancement equation, and remove the
levels, and Morrowind's system should be just fine
Anonymous
September 21, 2005 10:33:18 AM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

Gerry Quinn wrote:
> In article <1127235205.805483.255710@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
> knight37m@gmail.com says...
> >
> > Mark Morrison wrote:
> > > I want a demo first - I'm no longer prepared to buy a new PC just to
> > > play the latest Elder Scrolls game. I'll see how it runs on my
> > > current system before buying.
> >
> > I'm almost convinced to buy Oblivion sight unseen. I know I shouldn't,
> > but that's about how I feel about it now.
>
> With CRPGs, it's usually wise to wait for the patch. I might give
> Dungeon Siege a try in a while.

I recommend Dungeon Siege 2 over the first one.

> Plus when everyone has stopped talking about the game, you can look up
> spoilers in Google Groups, but you don't see them by accident ;-)

Heh.

Knight37
Anonymous
September 21, 2005 11:02:47 AM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

Yeah, didn't know about the random generation stuff. How many areas of
morrowind were just trackless waste with those leaf-less trees and had
nothing anywhere? Someone, some poor bastard, had to go in and fill
out all those areas with rocks, trees, a cliff racer
here..there...everywhere. So maybe the random areas are a good
thing...as long as we don't KNOW that it's being randomly generated or
there is a good return on time invested in random areas.

I see Oblivion as an engine, the modding community and I'll bet
Bethesda itself will be using this engine for awhile to tell more
stories, more quests more stuff especially with the fact that the
console release will have an internet connection. They may be focused
this time around with getting one, easier to follow, story told this
time. Hell I had my fortress started with Redoran before I ever
finished that Andrano Tomb/Skull mission that starts to open up the
main plot. I just had no idea what to do to. Now I'm sort of afraid
to wander around and murder stuff because it's frustrating to get
missions where you can get the mission and click and get the reward in
the same conversation.

People had a lot of fun with modding morrowind (myself included) but I
think from what we've seen of the new tools, it appears to be a lot
more like building stuff for Quake 3 or UT2004 than the lego-drop
editor. This makes the learning curve over what a lot of casual modders
that just want to make their own house will deal with (finding leaks,
24 hours for one area to compile, etc.) but those slightly more
hardcore will be able to create amazing stuff that players won't just
say: 'oh here's a dungeon that's from a mod, it looks like all the
other dungeons...'
Anonymous
September 21, 2005 11:03:51 AM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

Knight37 wrote:
> Gerry Quinn wrote:
> > In article <1127235205.805483.255710@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
> > knight37m@gmail.com says...
> > >
> > > Mark Morrison wrote:
> > > > I want a demo first - I'm no longer prepared to buy a new PC just to
> > > > play the latest Elder Scrolls game. I'll see how it runs on my
> > > > current system before buying.
> > >
> > > I'm almost convinced to buy Oblivion sight unseen. I know I shouldn't,
> > > but that's about how I feel about it now.
> >
> > With CRPGs, it's usually wise to wait for the patch. I might give
> > Dungeon Siege a try in a while.
>
> I recommend Dungeon Siege 2 over the first one.
>
And I recommend not buying over getting DS2 :)  but that's just me, I
hate games where saving a game is not really saving a game
September 21, 2005 11:39:25 AM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

Thus spake "littlemute" <littlemute@woodenmen.org>, 20 Sep 2005 08:51:41
-0700, Anno Domini:

>As for the skills, I have an old camera that I used for Ultima Online
>and Morrowind to hold down keys while I sleep and then wake up to 10
>level ups and 100 skill in sneak or sword if needed!

And there you have it kids. All you need to know about just how pathetic
Bethesda's whack-a-mole skill system really is. I'm hoping they change it
all to combos of at least 2 or 3 buttons. Hope you have 2 or 3 'smart'
cameras handy ;-p

--
A killfile is a friend for life.

Replace 'spamfree' with the other word for 'maze' to reply via email.
Anonymous
September 21, 2005 11:39:26 AM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

"Nostromo" <nostromo@spamfree.net.au> wrote in message
news:3901j1hh183gg8gnajsgbq57npl2s60fsg@4ax.com...
> Thus spake "littlemute" <littlemute@woodenmen.org>, 20 Sep 2005 08:51:41
> -0700, Anno Domini:
>
> >As for the skills, I have an old camera that I used for Ultima Online
> >and Morrowind to hold down keys while I sleep and then wake up to 10
> >level ups and 100 skill in sneak or sword if needed!
>
> And there you have it kids. All you need to know about just how pathetic
> Bethesda's whack-a-mole skill system really is. I'm hoping they change it
> all to combos of at least 2 or 3 buttons. Hope you have 2 or 3 'smart'
> cameras handy ;-p

It's pathetic because some people abuse it? Why do you care how
someone else plays? Seriously, play the game your way and enjoy it.
Other people abusing a system doesn't have any effect on you.

UO and Morrowind have far more realisitic skill models than any other
RPGs. I'm glad that they are the way they are and I hope they never
change. If the best complaint someone can muster is that other people
abuse it.. that's pretty weak.
Anonymous
September 21, 2005 11:39:27 AM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

Jim Vieira <WhiplashrAT@wiDOT.rrDOT.com> wrote:
>It's pathetic because some people abuse it?

It's pathetic because Morrowind's skill system is so easily abused that
it's hard not to.

>Seriously, play the game your way and enjoy it.

I did. But then I found I was leveling up way too fast. So I changed
how I played the game. But I was still leveling up way too fast. So I
changed how I played the game again. I ended up no longer playing the
game "my way", and I wasn't enjoying it very much. There are lots of
good skill-centric chararacter development systems, but Morrowind's is
the worst I've ever encountered.

Of course, if you actually took the time to read Nostromo's post you'ld
have found that he was making a different point.

Ross Ridge

--
l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo] rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/u/rridge/
db //
Anonymous
September 21, 2005 11:39:28 AM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca (Ross Ridge) wrote in
news:D gq8mm$etd$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca:

> Jim Vieira <WhiplashrAT@wiDOT.rrDOT.com> wrote:
>>It's pathetic because some people abuse it?
>
> It's pathetic because Morrowind's skill system is so easily abused that
> it's hard not to.
>
>>Seriously, play the game your way and enjoy it.
>
> I did. But then I found I was leveling up way too fast. So I changed
> how I played the game. But I was still leveling up way too fast. So I
> changed how I played the game again.
It wasn't that much problem of the system as of the particular numbers.
With mega-morrowind mod the game was pretty challenging until really late
stages.

Alex.
September 21, 2005 11:41:59 AM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

Thus spake "Knight37" <knight37m@gmail.com>, 20 Sep 2005 09:53:25 -0700,
Anno Domini:

>
>Mark Morrison wrote:
>> I want a demo first - I'm no longer prepared to buy a new PC just to
>> play the latest Elder Scrolls game. I'll see how it runs on my
>> current system before buying.
>
>I'm almost convinced to buy Oblivion sight unseen. I know I shouldn't,
>but that's about how I feel about it now.

Tell us how the patching process goes K. I think you'll find that the most
'challenging' part of the gameplay within the first 3-6 months rofl! ;-p
*duck*

--
A killfile is a friend for life.

Replace 'spamfree' with the other word for 'maze' to reply via email.
Anonymous
September 21, 2005 11:42:00 AM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

Nostromo <nostromo@spamfree.net.au> once tried to test me with:

> Thus spake "Knight37" <knight37m@gmail.com>, 20 Sep 2005 09:53:25
> -0700, Anno Domini:
>
>>
>>Mark Morrison wrote:
>>> I want a demo first - I'm no longer prepared to buy a new PC just to
>>> play the latest Elder Scrolls game. I'll see how it runs on my
>>> current system before buying.
>>
>>I'm almost convinced to buy Oblivion sight unseen. I know I shouldn't,
>>but that's about how I feel about it now.
>
> Tell us how the patching process goes K. I think you'll find that the
> most 'challenging' part of the gameplay within the first 3-6 months
> rofl! ;-p *duck*

You may be right. MW certainly wasn't a paragon of software engineering.

--

Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com

Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.
September 21, 2005 11:49:35 AM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

Thus spake "Josh Mayfield" <ultibloo-usenet3@yahoo.com>, 20 Sep 2005
10:39:47 -0700, Anno Domini:

>Firefly was cool in its own way, too- but doomed from the
>start (looking forward to the movie, though, Serenity).

I still don't get the yanks' association with the Gulf War with this gem of
a series - it's sci-fi ffs! The fact you let Fox kill it because of your own
stoopid fears & prejudice (not to mention there goes "Freedom of Expression"
down the toilet every time you let politicians & businessmen do this to you)
is just pathetic & sad. And what's worse, they 'own' the rights, so Joss
can't even continue to make the series, even though I've heard all the
actors would jump on the bandwagon in a heartbeat if he did. Sad, sad,
sad...

--
A killfile is a friend for life.

Replace 'spamfree' with the other word for 'maze' to reply via email.
September 21, 2005 11:52:33 AM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

littlemute wrote:
> Yeah, didn't know about the random generation stuff.

I don't want to mislead anybody. I didn't read that Oblivion has any
"on-the-fly" randomly generated maps. The interview (I still can't find
it again) said that they were randomly generating terrain, but then
fitting it into the fully . . . um . . .rendered? . . . areas. We'll
all have identical terrain to explore.
Anonymous
September 21, 2005 12:08:32 PM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

Quoth The Raven: Knight37 <knight37m@gmail.com> in
1127229454.452474.288820@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
> littlemute wrote:
>> This looks like the 'next big thing' in the CRPG area (especially
>> single player) and I wanted to get some impressions of what you folks
>> have seen so far. I'm an jaded mofo yet I feel the great weight of
>> can't wait for this title, mostly due to the sandboxing potential and
>> the fact that from what I've seen, the ES team is dedicated to
>> creating a living world with animals and people that actually do
>> stuff rather than an entire continent of store manniquins (moody
>> dark elf store manniquins at that!).
>
> I'm very interested in it so far. I've heard that every NPC is fully
> voice acted in Oblivion which will be a much needed change from the
> "signpost" NPC's of Morrowind. It sounds like they have seen some of
> the things Gothic 1 & 2 have done and made some improvements. I'm sure
> it will still have the ass-tastic "skills get better as you use them"
> game system (which I hate) but I can probably overlook that if the
> game world is highly immersive. With so few other RPGs to look
> forward to Oblivion will probably be a must buy for me.
>
> Is there a release date for the PC version yet?
>
>> The only complaints I've read are that there's no horse combat and
>> something about a quest compass??
>
> No horse combat is really no big deal to me.
>
> Knight37

i have seen horses being ridden in screenshots, i assume that means you
can fight while on one

--
Glibido: All talk and no action.

Take out the _CURSING to reply to me
Anonymous
September 21, 2005 12:08:33 PM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

"Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSING@dodo.com.au> once tried to test me with:

>> No horse combat is really no big deal to me.
>>
>> Knight37
>
> i have seen horses being ridden in screenshots, i assume that means you
> can fight while on one
>

Why would you assume that? Maybe the horses are just for transportation?

--

Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com

Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.
Anonymous
September 21, 2005 12:08:39 PM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

Highlandish wrote:
> Quoth The Raven: Knight37 <knight37m@gmail.com> in
> Xns96D7DC0B876DDknight37m@130.133.1.4
> > "Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSING@dodo.com.au> once tried to test me
> > with:
> >
> >>> No horse combat is really no big deal to me.
> >>>
> >>> Knight37
> >>
> >> i have seen horses being ridden in screenshots, i assume that means
> >> you can fight while on one
> >>
> >
> > Why would you assume that? Maybe the horses are just for
> > transportation?
>
> like the stilt riders? you click on the horse and select you destination
> to appear at?

No, like you can "drive" them, but you can't attack from them. In other
words, you can't attack unless you dismount. I don't know if that's how
Oblivion is going to do it, but that's certainly one way to do it
without allowing attack while on horse. I didn't mention the
no-attack-on-horse thing, that was brought up by the OP.

Knight37
Anonymous
September 21, 2005 12:11:11 PM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

Quoth The Raven: littlemute <littlemute@woodenmen.org> in
1127231501.273804.155050@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
> Riding through the fields cutting down peasants on horseback has a
> certain appeal though.
>
> EB has it listed for 11/21. That's pushing it close to the Xmas
> bubble but from what I've read it's pretty close to done.
>
> As for the skills, I have an old camera that I used for Ultima Online
> and Morrowind to hold down keys while I sleep and then wake up to 10
> level ups and 100 skill in sneak or sword if needed! I wonder if
> there's anything online about the skills sytem for Oblivion yet?
>
> The modding is going to be tough having to voice all NPC's if one
> wanted to make quests, but man that's a great addition. It's one of
> the things that put Jagged Alliance into the stratosphere for
> immersion. "There ain't nuthin' down there for you!" and "I'm
> looking to get in on a good shootin'"

did holding down keys while sneaking really work for usage gained
skills? bugger I wish I had thought of that, I mightn't have used
console cheats.

--
"Mosquitoes have caused more deaths than all the wars... Guppies devour
mosquito larvae so may be the best defense against them.... We budget
billions for military systems. Preposterous! Spend it on guppies!" -
letter to the editor, Eugene newspaper

Take out the _CURSING to reply to me
Anonymous
September 21, 2005 12:12:46 PM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 00:15:18 +0000 (UTC), rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
(Ross Ridge) wrote:

>Jim Vieira <WhiplashrAT@wiDOT.rrDOT.com> wrote:
>>It's pathetic because some people abuse it?
>
>It's pathetic because Morrowind's skill system is so easily abused that
>it's hard not to.
>
>>Seriously, play the game your way and enjoy it.
>
>I did. But then I found I was leveling up way too fast. So I changed
>how I played the game. But I was still leveling up way too fast. So I
>changed how I played the game again. I ended up no longer playing the
>game "my way", and I wasn't enjoying it very much. There are lots of
>good skill-centric chararacter development systems, but Morrowind's is
>the worst I've ever encountered.
>
>Of course, if you actually took the time to read Nostromo's post you'ld
>have found that he was making a different point.
>
> Ross Ridge

There are mods out for Morrowind that slowed down advancement, IIRC.
So you'd need 15 points to level up, and not 10, and so on.

--

Bunnies aren't just cute like everybody supposes !
They got them hoppy legs and twitchy little noses !
And what's with all the carrots ?
What do they need such good eyesight for anyway ?
Bunnies ! Bunnies ! It must be BUNNIES !
Anonymous
September 21, 2005 12:14:28 PM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

Quoth The Raven: littlemute <littlemute@woodenmen.org> in
1127224144.558161.193890@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com
> This looks like the 'next big thing' in the CRPG area (especially
> single player) and I wanted to get some impressions of what you folks
> have seen so far. I'm an jaded mofo yet I feel the great weight of
> can't wait for this title, mostly due to the sandboxing potential and
> the fact that from what I've seen, the ES team is dedicated to
> creating a living world with animals and people that actually do
> stuff rather than an entire continent of store manniquins (moody dark
> elf store manniquins at that!).
>
> The only complaints I've read are that there's no horse combat and
> something about a quest compass??

I've seen screenies of horses being ridden, I assume you can fight while
riding.

I'm gunna have to finish GW real soon then, morrowind took me 6 months
of solid play before I decided to take on the main quest, this one is
going to be bigger. of course that was mostly because of the novelty of
the game, this time it might not be so new a concept for me that I'll
just fly through it with no immersion.

--
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought
without accepting it. - Aristotle (384 BC - 322 BC)

Take out the _CURSING to reply to me
Anonymous
September 21, 2005 12:17:24 PM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

Quoth The Raven: wolfing <wolfing1@yahoo.com> in
1127236996.358810.131980@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com
> Knight37 wrote:
>>> As for the skills, I have an old camera that I used for Ultima
>>> Online and Morrowind to hold down keys while I sleep and then wake
>>> up to 10 level ups and 100 skill in sneak or sword if needed! I
>>> wonder if there's anything online about the skills sytem for
>>> Oblivion yet?
>
> I wonder when they'll get rid of this. Maybe they should just get
> rid of the levels altogether. Instead of a level 10 'jumper' you're
> just a guy with 150 jumping skill

I could jump from one end of morrowind to another in a single leap after
all the training I gave my guy. I was in the clouds in a few seconds,
and I just hovered with the feather spell over where I wanted to land
until I finally dropped. cliff racers never bothered me that way.
incidentally I'm glad to hear they're gone in oblivion

--
It's a myth that there's a "curse of King Tut's tomb" and 'most ' of
the people who were present at the opening of the tomb died swift,
horrible deaths. Of the 22 present at it's opening, 21 were alive 10
years later

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Anonymous
September 21, 2005 12:20:26 PM

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Quoth The Raven: Knight37 <knight37m@gmail.com> in
1127239934.965836.323790@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
> Memnoch wrote:
>> Unbalanced or not it did make sense that if you practised with a
>> sword you got better at using a sword. Other games don't make sense
>> in that you could do the same and suddenly it would mean you could
>> run faster or read another language.
>
> I fall in the camp of "which is more fun" every time over "which is
> more realistic." To me it's just more fun to have skill points awarded
> for doing stuff and get to spend them however I want. It's one of the
> things I dislike about DS2, but at least there is the skill tree now
> and you can spend points in order to get the various skills and powers
> in addition to the skills that level up from use. In that regard it's
> a major improvement over DS1.
>
> Knight37

nah, I'm a usage fan, in GW I always have spare skill points left over
not being used and spent on useless skills. thankfully you can take them
back any time, but at least in ES system, I don't have to park skill
points where I don't want them. to get better as I play the way I play
sound and works a lot better for me.

--
"Bother," said Pooh, as he walked through the security beam.

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Anonymous
September 21, 2005 12:26:45 PM

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Quoth The Raven: Mark Morrison <drdpikeuk@aol.com> in
3tg0j1d106k63uf7jcj01m4gq86n01d9dv@4ax.com
> On 20 Sep 2005 09:53:25 -0700, "Knight37" <knight37m@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Mark Morrison wrote:
>>> I want a demo first - I'm no longer prepared to buy a new PC just to
>>> play the latest Elder Scrolls game. I'll see how it runs on my
>>> current system before buying.
>>
>> I'm almost convinced to buy Oblivion sight unseen. I know I
>> shouldn't, but that's about how I feel about it now.
>>
>>> Bunnies aren't just cute like everybody supposes !
>>> They got them hoppy legs and twitchy little noses !
>>> And what's with all the carrots ?
>>> What do they need such good eyesight for anyway ?
>>> Bunnies ! Bunnies ! It must be BUNNIES !
>>
>> I finally saw the episode where this came from. Hilarious! That was
>> my favorite Buffy yet. That and Evil Willow totally kicked ass. Not
>> to mention the Tabula Rasa episode was great also. I am now about
>> halfway through season 7 so I'm almost to the end, but what a fun
>> ride it's been.
>
> I loved Tabula Rasa - more laughs in that one ep that in most
> comedies.
>
> My 6 year old niece is a Buffy fan, and her favourite ep is either
> Fear Itself (Anya in the bunny suit) or the one with the ghostly
> Native Americans. She's highly amused at Spike getting filled with
> arrows while tied to a chair.


I have all 7 seasons in box sets, any anya centric episode is my
favourite, she is gorgeous
--
Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person
who doesn't get it.

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