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WiFi Compass

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Anonymous
July 19, 2004 1:08:02 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Has anyone ever seen a program that acts like a compass for WiFi
networks?
i.e. which direction the network base station is realitive to you

Maybe something like an extreme Pinging tool - kinda like the old game
of "Hot and Cold"
- your getting hotter......your getting hotter.......

if anyone has any coments about this - email me matt.stroh@gmail.com

Thanks


--
R1cochet
brought to you by http://www.wifi-forum.com/

More about : wifi compass

Anonymous
July 19, 2004 1:08:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 21:08:02 GMT, R1cochet
<R1cochet.19lyaa@no-mx.forums.yourdomain.com.au> wrote:

>Has anyone ever seen a program that acts like a compass for WiFi
>networks?

http://www.wififofum.org



--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558
July 19, 2004 4:44:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

"R1cochet" <R1cochet.19lyaa@no-mx.forums.yourdomain.com.au> wrote :
>
> Has anyone ever seen a program that acts like a compass for WiFi
> networks?
> i.e. which direction the network base station is realitive to you
>
> Maybe something like an extreme Pinging tool - kinda like the old game
> of "Hot and Cold"
> - your getting hotter......your getting hotter.......
>
> if anyone has any coments about this - email me matt.stroh@gmail.com
>
> Thanks
>

The idea is not silly as it may seem to be at a first read.

The program is not difficult to write, with all those clients revealing
the signal strength, the only problem is that should be syncronized
knowing wich direction the antenna is pointed at, datum wich,
in terms of a portable computer, is slightly difficult to obtain,
since they have no direction indicator embedded (yet :) 
Related resources
Anonymous
July 22, 2004 12:23:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Hmm. Wouldn't you need two antennae for this to be most effective? Hard to
know where sounds are coming from if you only have one ear.

Dave

--
______________________________
Remove "yourclothes" to reply directly.

"R1cochet" <R1cochet.19lyaa@no-mx.forums.yourdomain.com.au> wrote in message
news:R1cochet.19lyaa@no-mx.forums.yourdomain.com.au...
>
> Has anyone ever seen a program that acts like a compass for WiFi
> networks?
> i.e. which direction the network base station is realitive to you
>
> Maybe something like an extreme Pinging tool - kinda like the old game
> of "Hot and Cold"
> - your getting hotter......your getting hotter.......
>
> if anyone has any coments about this - email me matt.stroh@gmail.com
>
> Thanks
>
>
> --
> R1cochet
> brought to you by http://www.wifi-forum.com/
>
Anonymous
July 22, 2004 7:56:39 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

R1cochet <R1cochet.19lyaa@no-mx.forums.yourdomain.com.au> wrote:

> Has anyone ever seen a program that acts like a compass for WiFi
> networks?
> i.e. which direction the network base station is realitive to you

> Maybe something like an extreme Pinging tool - kinda like the old game
> of "Hot and Cold"
> - your getting hotter......your getting hotter.......

The hot/cold idea, rather than direction, is part of NetStumbler.
If you have a gps, you can build a map of hotpsots, with the hotspot being
identified as being the point with the strongest signal.

Lacking a gps, there is a bar graph. I can walk down a hallway and tell
where a WAP is like the hot/cold game.

http://www.netstumbler.com

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8-122.5
Anonymous
July 22, 2004 7:56:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 15:56:39 +0000 (UTC),
dold@WiFiXCompa.usenet.us.com wrote:

>The hot/cold idea, rather than direction, is part of NetStumbler.
>If you have a gps, you can build a map of hotpsots, with the hotspot being
>identified as being the point with the strongest signal.

Yeah, but it produces some rather odd maps when used with:
http://www.dmzs.com/tools/files/wireless.phtml
Since I do my hotspot sniffing while driving down the road, it shows
that most of the hotspots are located in the middle of the highways.
If I pickup the hotspot from two roads, it shows multiple spots. If I
drive really close to the hotspot or it has a strong signal, I get a
larger diameter circle.

>Lacking a gps, there is a bar graph. I can walk down a hallway and tell
>where a WAP is like the hot/cold game.
>http://www.netstumbler.com

The best way to specifically locate a hot spot is with a rather
directional antenna. I'm a big 24dBi dish fan with its 5 degree
beamwidth. However, that will attract a bit too much attention. So,
put the dish inside a suitable cardboard box and pretend that you're
lugging the box around (I've done this and it works). The hard part
was playing transmitter hunt in a large office building. I could get
a really good signal from the outside through the glass, but I could
only determine the location within plus or minus 2 floors. Sniffing
the hallways was a problem because some of the offices occupied the
entire floor. I eventually threw together a Lorentz type beam
switcher dish feed and was able to narrow my effective beamwidth down
to about 0.5 degrees and locate the exact office.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558
Anonymous
July 22, 2004 10:09:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:
> Since I do my hotspot sniffing while driving down the road, it shows
> that most of the hotspots are located in the middle of the highways.

I've noticed that. What seems really odd about that to me is that I can't
pick up my WAP from the street in front of the house. How am I picking up
other people's WAPs from the middle of Highway 87, where I can't even see
the houses?

Leaving it on while driving down the street is marginally interesting. I
survey the rising count of WAPs in general verses the number of WEP enabled
sites. When I first started, I noticed with Boingo that there was a spot
called "SClara Shared" along El Camino Real. Since I had no access at the
time, I thought that was an inviting name, but I couldn't connect to it.

With NetStumbler, it appeared in a different spot than what I had observed
with Boingo, so I started driving up and down side streets to see if I
could find it. I didn't succeed in finding the spot. I think it must have
been up high in a building, and I couldn't locate it with my Orinoco and no
antenna. It seemed obvious that my original sighting was a reflection from
an old stucco building.

I've been playing with a DWL-122 mini-USB in several different sized cans.
NetStumbler seems to max out in signal strength. I need to get some more
distance between myself and the WAP in order to make further measurements.
I'm going to use the same cans with the Orinoco and a bare radiator
as well as the mini-USB inside the can.

---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8-122.5
Anonymous
July 22, 2004 11:31:43 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

"David Shorthouse" <davidshorthouse@shawyourclothes.ca> wrote in message news:<GPKLc.78651$Mr4.62089@pd7tw1no>...
> Hmm. Wouldn't you need two antennae for this to be most effective? Hard to
> know where sounds are coming from if you only have one ear.
>
> Dave
>
> --
> ______________________________
> Remove "yourclothes" to reply directly.
>
> "R1cochet" <R1cochet.19lyaa@no-mx.forums.yourdomain.com.au> wrote in message
> news:R1cochet.19lyaa@no-mx.forums.yourdomain.com.au...
> >
> > Has anyone ever seen a program that acts like a compass for WiFi
> > networks?
> > i.e. which direction the network base station is realitive to you
> >
> > Maybe something like an extreme Pinging tool - kinda like the old game
> > of "Hot and Cold"
> > - your getting hotter......your getting hotter.......
> >
> > if anyone has any coments about this - email me matt.stroh@gmail.com
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> > --
> > R1cochet
> > brought to you by http://www.wifi-forum.com/
> >

Hmm.
Naw... Actually antennas, even only a single antenna can be much more
directional than two ears. Let me ask you a question. If I required
you to cover your right ear and turn in a circle to locate the
direction of a signal, do you suppose you could do it?

Well then, if you use the right type of antenna, in the right way, you
can more accurately locate the direction of arrival of a signal.
Anonymous
July 23, 2004 2:56:44 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 18:09:40 +0000 (UTC),
dold@WiFiXCompa.usenet.us.com wrote:

>I've been playing with a DWL-122 mini-USB in several different sized cans.
>NetStumbler seems to max out in signal strength. I need to get some more
>distance between myself and the WAP in order to make further measurements.
>I'm going to use the same cans with the Orinoco and a bare radiator
>as well as the mini-USB inside the can.

I loaned my DWL-122 to a friend for "testing". I may get it back
before the next ice age.

Here's something that might be fun to try. Stuff a DWL-122 or other
thumb size USB radio into a Pacific Wireless dish feed. See:
http://apache.airnet.com.au/~fastinfo/wireless/PacMon/
http://www.alphalink.com.au/~vak/galaxy/
Remove PIFA antenna from DWL-122 board.
Butcher downconverter as shown, but leave the dipole and reflector
circuit board. Connect DWL-122 to dipole with short coax. Instant
client radio with lots of gain.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558
Anonymous
July 23, 2004 4:00:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 18:09:40 +0000 (UTC),
dold@WiFiXCompa.usenet.us.com wrote:

>Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:
>> Since I do my hotspot sniffing while driving down the road, it shows
>> that most of the hotspots are located in the middle of the highways.
>
>I've noticed that. What seems really odd about that to me is that I can't
>pick up my WAP from the street in front of the house. How am I picking up
>other people's WAPs from the middle of Highway 87, where I can't even see
>the houses?

Because your vehicle isn't driving down the middle of their living
rooms. Your GPS give the location of the vehicle, not the access
point. As for coverage and such, it varies dramatically by the home
construction, elevation, and position of the access point. You
probably have chicken wire or foil back insulation in the walls.

>I've been playing with a DWL-122 mini-USB in several different sized cans.
>NetStumbler seems to max out in signal strength. I need to get some more
>distance between myself and the WAP in order to make further measurements.
>I'm going to use the same cans with the Orinoco and a bare radiator
>as well as the mini-USB inside the can.

Well, ok. Whatever sorta works.

You might be interested in reading RFC3825.
ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc3825.txt
Basically, it pre-loads the Lat-Long and altitude (or floor number) in
the access point. When a user associates, it delivers the location
info the users computer. When they call 911 using a VoIP phone, the
location info is forwarded to the PSAP (public safety answering
point). If Netstumbler can add a feature to convince the wireless
router to disgourge the required info, the maps might be more useful.


--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831.336.2558 voice http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
# jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
# 831.421.6491 digital_pager jeffl@cruzio.com AE6KS
Anonymous
July 26, 2004 1:15:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

>> Hmm. Wouldn't you need two antennae for this to be most effective? Hard
>> to
>> know where sounds are coming from if you only have one ear.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> --
>> ______________________________
>> Remove "yourclothes" to reply directly.
>>
>> "R1cochet" <R1cochet.19lyaa@no-mx.forums.yourdomain.com.au> wrote in
>> message
>> news:R1cochet.19lyaa@no-mx.forums.yourdomain.com.au...
>> >
>> > Has anyone ever seen a program that acts like a compass for WiFi
>> > networks?
>> > i.e. which direction the network base station is realitive to you
>> >
>> > Maybe something like an extreme Pinging tool - kinda like the old game
>> > of "Hot and Cold"
>> > - your getting hotter......your getting hotter.......
>> >
>> > if anyone has any coments about this - email me matt.stroh@gmail.com
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > R1cochet
>> > brought to you by http://www.wifi-forum.com/
>> >
>
> Hmm.
> Naw... Actually antennas, even only a single antenna can be much more
> directional than two ears. Let me ask you a question. If I required
> you to cover your right ear and turn in a circle to locate the
> direction of a signal, do you suppose you could do it?
>
> Well then, if you use the right type of antenna, in the right way, you
> can more accurately locate the direction of arrival of a signal.

Indeed, but without turning in a circle, how would this be possible? Still
seems like a hot/cold game to me whereas two antennae would permit immediate
and accurate pinpointing of signal source.
!