Linking Two Houses

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Hi there,

Before I ask my question take into account I only have a preliminary
understanding of networking and have virtually no idea about wireless
networking so don't go over my head.

Here is my question. I want to share my internet connection with my
mother who lives about 100-150 meters away. Line of site is not
obtainable. And my last point, I need to be able to do this as cheaply
as possible.

Any advice is appreciated.
16 answers Last reply
More about linking houses
  1. Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

    What is blocking the LOS? e.g. another house (how many, what
    construction, etc), trees, earth, etc.

    -D

    Strider <email-address@signature.okay> wrote in message news:<MPG.1b659cdf7d22116398a01e@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk>...
    > Hi there,
    >
    > Before I ask my question take into account I only have a preliminary
    > understanding of networking and have virtually no idea about wireless
    > networking so don't go over my head.
    >
    > Here is my question. I want to share my internet connection with my
    > mother who lives about 100-150 meters away. Line of site is not
    > obtainable. And my last point, I need to be able to do this as cheaply
    > as possible.
    >
    > Any advice is appreciated.
  2. Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

    On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 08:55:32 GMT, Strider
    <email-address@signature.okay> wrote:

    >Before I ask my question take into account I only have a preliminary
    >understanding of networking and have virtually no idea about wireless
    >networking so don't go over my head.

    Homework:
    http://www.practicallynetworked.com
    http://www.tomsnetworking.com
    Lots of FAQ's and white papers.

    >Here is my question. I want to share my internet connection with my
    >mother who lives about 100-150 meters away. Line of site is not
    >obtainable. And my last point, I need to be able to do this as cheaply
    >as possible.

    Two methods that have nothing to do with wireless.

    1. Just run CAT5 cable. Make sure you have a switched port at each
    end and not a hub. That means buy a pair of 4 port ethernet switches.
    The 10baseT specification allows for 100meters maximum cable run.
    Going over slightly is not fatal, but you will have problems trying to
    run 100baseT (100mbits/sec). Most switches do NOT have a means of
    forceing 10mbit/sec operation, so you'll have to install a 10baseT hub
    or switch at one end.

    2. Try RG-58A/U coax cable running 10base2 ethernet (cheapernet).
    I've gone about 950ft using coax cable without difficulty.

    Buy two 10baseT (10mbit/sec only) hubs that have a 10base2 (BNC)
    connector. Connect one at each end. You're done.

    You can also use 10base2 to 10baseT media converters or a coax balun
    made for the purpose. Two of these baluns:
    http://www.multilet.com/us/baseband/product_range/product_range.htm
    should work. I prefer the hubs or media converters, but the baluns
    are cheaper.

    If you can't find RG-58A/U, try 75ohm RG-6/u cable TV coax. (Do NOT
    use RG-59/u). You'll need some F to BNC adapters. Don't worry about
    the mismatched impedances.


    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
    150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558
  3. Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

    "Strider" <email-address@signature.okay> wrote in message
    news:MPG.1b659cdf7d22116398a01e@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk...
    [snip]
    > Here is my question. I want to share my internet connection with my
    > mother who lives about 100-150 meters away. Line of site is not
    > obtainable. And my last point, I need to be able to do this as cheaply
    > as possible.

    You can:

    1. Use a modem at each end, and enable Internet Connection Sharing. It ties
    up the phone line, but modems are cheap.
    2. Try to "dogleg" from your house to a midpoint, and then to your mother's
    house. You'll need a cooperative neighbor, and three antennas.
    3. Run a wire along the fences, and put in line drivers.

    HTH.

    Bill
  4. Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

    Strider <email-address@signature.okay> wrote in
    news:MPG.1b659cdf7d22116398a01e@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk:

    > Here is my question. I want to share my internet connection with my
    > mother who lives about 100-150 meters away. Line of site is not
    > obtainable. And my last point, I need to be able to do this as cheaply
    > as possible.

    If LOS is not possible... Wireless most likely is not either. Can you place
    a tower or mast on the house?

    Can you run a cable from your house to her house? If so, you could run your
    own DSL line to the house, then bridge the line into your network and
    enable internet sharing on it. Blackbox.com and other network hardware
    vendors sell DSL converters upto 8mbps.

    Otherwise you're stuck with using 2 analog modems to connect the houses.
    However, if you're using modems - you might as well get your mom her own
    internet account.

    --
    Lucas Tam (REMOVEnntp@rogers.com)
    Please delete "REMOVE" from the e-mail address when replying.
    http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/coolspot18/
  5. Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

    William Warren proclaimed...

    > You can:
    >
    > 1. Use a modem at each end, and enable Internet Connection Sharing. It ties
    > up the phone line, but modems are cheap.

    Thanks. The idea however was for her to share my always on 1.5mbit
    connection though.

    > 2. Try to "dogleg" from your house to a midpoint, and then to your mother's
    > house. You'll need a cooperative neighbor, and three antennas.

    In Howdon. I don't think so...

    > 3. Run a wire along the fences, and put in line drivers.

    Not practical. Thanks for trying.
  6. Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

    Lucas Tam proclaimed...

    > If LOS is not possible... Wireless most likely is not either. Can you place
    > a tower or mast on the house?
    >
    > Can you run a cable from your house to her house? If so, you could run your
    > own DSL line to the house, then bridge the line into your network and
    > enable internet sharing on it. Blackbox.com and other network hardware
    > vendors sell DSL converters upto 8mbps.
    >
    > Otherwise you're stuck with using 2 analog modems to connect the houses.
    > However, if you're using modems - you might as well get your mom her own
    > internet account.

    She has already, I just figured she might as well share mine since she
    only browses and reads email.

    Thanks
  7. Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

    dep_blueman proclaimed...

    > What is blocking the LOS? e.g. another house (how many, what
    > construction, etc), trees, earth, etc.

    A three story flat. Nothing else really.
  8. Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

    Jeff Liebermann proclaimed...

    > Homework:
    > http://www.practicallynetworked.com
    > http://www.tomsnetworking.com
    > Lots of FAQ's and white papers.

    Thanks, I'll give them a read

    <snip>

    Running a cable is not an option.

    Thank you all for your posts. I'm very grateful.
  9. Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

    In article <MPG.1b6640d25a2c570398a027@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk>,
    Strider <email-address@signature.okay> wrote:
    :dep_blueman proclaimed...

    :> What is blocking the LOS? e.g. another house (how many, what
    :> construction, etc), trees, earth, etc.

    :A three story flat. Nothing else really.

    If you asked nicely (and especially if you offered some $$), the owner
    of the flat might be willing to let you put a reflector on top of the
    flat. It'd be like bouncing the signal off a mirror -- works fine if
    you can get the right angles.

    --
    I predict that you will not trust this prediction.
  10. Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

    On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 20:36:14 GMT, Strider
    <email-address@signature.okay> wrote:

    >Running a cable is not an option.

    Sure it is. Through the sewers, horizontal drilling under the
    roadway, up the phone poles and across the road, down the fence line,
    etc. There's usually a way.

    NLOS (non-line of sight) wireless is the holy grail of the industry.
    Everyone claims they can do it, but few succeed. From personal
    experience, any obstruction in the Fresnel zone are is going to yield
    flakey propogation, variable reliability, and weird problems as the
    signals go up and down. At 150 meters distance, there's almost always
    a way to get line of sight. Lacking that, you can bounce off the side
    of a building, or use a store and forward repeater:
    http://www.dlink.com/products/?pid=267
    located at some point that can see both ends.


    --
    # Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
    # 831.336.2558 voice http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    # jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
    # 831.421.6491 digital_pager jeffl@cruzio.com AE6KS
  11. Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

    On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 08:55:32 GMT, Strider
    <email-address@signature.okay> wrote:
    >
    >Here is my question. I want to share my internet connection with my
    >mother who lives about 100-150 meters away. Line of site is not
    >obtainable. And my last point, I need to be able to do this as cheaply
    >as possible.
    How are the phone wires in the neighborhood?
    Do both of your phone service drops come from the same box? Are there
    a couple of unused pairs in there from each premise? You could tone
    from your house to the box, and from her house to the box. Cross
    connect it. Run 10 base-T ethernet over it. Don't tell anyone, they
    will likely never notice. Shhhhh.
  12. Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

    On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 05:25:31 -0700, "Steevo@my-deja.com"
    <steevo@my-deja.com> wrote:

    >How are the phone wires in the neighborhood?
    >Do both of your phone service drops come from the same box? Are there
    >a couple of unused pairs in there from each premise? You could tone
    >from your house to the box, and from her house to the box. Cross
    >connect it. Run 10 base-T ethernet over it. Don't tell anyone, they
    >will likely never notice. Shhhhh.

    Telco cable works very well at 10baseT rates. I have a customer that
    has a single 25 pair telco bundle going between facilities buildings
    that are 750 ft apart (wire run distance). I have just about
    everything you can imagine running on those 25 pairs. Video, a pair
    of SDSL modems, ADSL, 10baseT ethernet, wireline remote radio
    controls, alarm signals, RS-422, Meridian phone system, and of course
    POTS telco. Since it's buried, I'm not concerned about radiation
    issues (it's at a radio site). You'll need two pairs for 10baseT.


    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
    150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558
  13. Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

    Jeff Liebermann proclaimed...

    > Sure it is. Through the sewers, horizontal drilling under the
    > roadway, up the phone poles and across the road, down the fence line,
    > etc. There's usually a way.

    I'm sure you're speaking from the viewpoint of the Country you're in. In
    England you'd get into a lot of trouble for doing stuff like this.

    > NLOS (non-line of sight) wireless is the holy grail of the industry.
    > Everyone claims they can do it, but few succeed. From personal
    > experience, any obstruction in the Fresnel zone are is going to yield
    > flakey propogation, variable reliability, and weird problems as the
    > signals go up and down. At 150 meters distance, there's almost always
    > a way to get line of sight. Lacking that, you can bounce off the side
    > of a building, or use a store and forward repeater:
    > http://www.dlink.com/products/?pid=267
    > located at some point that can see both ends.

    I can see this is going to be a lot more difficult/expensive than I
    thought it would be.

    I'll wait till technology improves and prices fall.
  14. Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

    "Strider" <email-address@signature.okay> wrote in message
    news:MPG.1b66407be2c312d598a025@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk...
    > William Warren proclaimed...
    >
    > > You can:
    > >
    > > 1. Use a modem at each end, and enable Internet Connection Sharing. It
    ties
    > > up the phone line, but modems are cheap.
    >
    > Thanks. The idea however was for her to share my always on 1.5mbit
    > connection though.

    Well, she _would_ be sharing it: she just wouldn't be paying an ISP for the
    connection. It would always be on when she dialed up your home ;-).

    > > 2. Try to "dogleg" from your house to a midpoint, and then to your
    mother's
    > > house. You'll need a cooperative neighbor, and three antennas.
    >
    > In Howdon. I don't think so...

    If you know some tenants in the building that's in the way, you can do a
    deal with them and put wireless bridges in their apartment(s), with
    directional antennas aimed at your mother's and your houses. Of course,
    they'd share the connection too, but in return you get power, a dry
    environment, and no insurance bill.

    > > 3. Run a wire along the fences, and put in line drivers.
    >
    > Not practical. Thanks for trying.

    You're welcome: I also suggest you chat up your local ham radio operators.
    You can find out who they are by contacting the Radio Society of Great
    Britain (RSGB) at http://www.rsgb.org.uk/. Hams are always glad to help, and
    you're in a lot of luck because of your location: microwave is _very_ big in
    the Great Britain ham community, so there's an excellent chance that an
    "Elmer" can advise you on how to solve the problem.

    Of course, _THEY_ might want to share your connection, too, but if they have
    access to a tower or other tall structure with LOS to both houses, that's
    only fair.

    Good luck. Trust me: there's a way, even if it means putting on a climbing
    belt and doing it yourself.

    Bill
  15. Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

    Experiment with a laptop to see what kind of range you get, then take 20
    minutes to make a directional antenna and see if you get significantly
    more range. They can be made cheaply with cardboard and aluminum foil
    (do some searchs on the web for construction info). Based on that, you
    might be able to make an assessment as to whether more investment is
    worth it.

    Finally, and this is just a thought, but there are
    ethernet-over-power-line devices that are available. I have no
    experience with them and I am not sure how far the range goes...but
    since you are all likely on the same little section of the grid...might
    be worth testing. You just might be able to plug in a couple adapters
    in the wall and be done.

    http://www.linksys.com/products/product.asp?grid=34&scid=33&prid=541

    --
    jP
  16. Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

    On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 08:24:04 GMT, in alt.internet.wireless , Strider
    <email-address@signature.okay> wrote:

    >Jeff Liebermann proclaimed...
    >
    >> Sure it is. Through the sewers, horizontal drilling under the
    >> roadway, up the phone poles and across the road, down the fence line,
    >> etc. There's usually a way.
    >
    >I'm sure you're speaking from the viewpoint of the Country you're in. In
    >England you'd get into a lot of trouble for doing stuff like this.

    Even in England you can do this. It will however be expensive as you'll
    need wayleave (or whatever its called) over all the intervening land.

    >I can see this is going to be a lot more difficult/expensive than I
    >thought it would be.

    Basically with unlicensed radio its a nonstarter unless you can get
    planning permission to erect a mast high enough to have LOS to your target
    machine. And then you have a massive security problem as you're
    broadcasting to a wide area.

    >I'll wait till technology improves and prices fall.

    If you think about it, the technology is there already. Consider: you can
    get FM radio signals in both houses that comes from a mast some miles away
    without LOS to both premises, and works in every room, through walls and
    even underground. So what you need is adequate power, and the right
    freqency. Both are likely to be in the licensed band.
    --
    Mark McIntyre
    CLC FAQ <http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html>
    CLC readme: <http://www.angelfire.com/ms3/bchambless0/welcome_to_clc.html>


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