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Linking Two Houses

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  • Networking
  • Wireless Networking
Last response: in Wireless Networking
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July 19, 2004 12:55:32 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Hi there,

Before I ask my question take into account I only have a preliminary
understanding of networking and have virtually no idea about wireless
networking so don't go over my head.

Here is my question. I want to share my internet connection with my
mother who lives about 100-150 meters away. Line of site is not
obtainable. And my last point, I need to be able to do this as cheaply
as possible.

Any advice is appreciated.

More about : linking houses

Anonymous
a b F Wireless
July 19, 2004 12:55:33 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

What is blocking the LOS? e.g. another house (how many, what
construction, etc), trees, earth, etc.

-D

Strider <email-address@signature.okay> wrote in message news:<MPG.1b659cdf7d22116398a01e@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk>...
> Hi there,
>
> Before I ask my question take into account I only have a preliminary
> understanding of networking and have virtually no idea about wireless
> networking so don't go over my head.
>
> Here is my question. I want to share my internet connection with my
> mother who lives about 100-150 meters away. Line of site is not
> obtainable. And my last point, I need to be able to do this as cheaply
> as possible.
>
> Any advice is appreciated.
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
July 19, 2004 3:13:31 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 08:55:32 GMT, Strider
<email-address@signature.okay> wrote:

>Before I ask my question take into account I only have a preliminary
>understanding of networking and have virtually no idea about wireless
>networking so don't go over my head.

Homework:
http://www.practicallynetworked.com
http://www.tomsnetworking.com
Lots of FAQ's and white papers.

>Here is my question. I want to share my internet connection with my
>mother who lives about 100-150 meters away. Line of site is not
>obtainable. And my last point, I need to be able to do this as cheaply
>as possible.

Two methods that have nothing to do with wireless.

1. Just run CAT5 cable. Make sure you have a switched port at each
end and not a hub. That means buy a pair of 4 port ethernet switches.
The 10baseT specification allows for 100meters maximum cable run.
Going over slightly is not fatal, but you will have problems trying to
run 100baseT (100mbits/sec). Most switches do NOT have a means of
forceing 10mbit/sec operation, so you'll have to install a 10baseT hub
or switch at one end.

2. Try RG-58A/U coax cable running 10base2 ethernet (cheapernet).
I've gone about 950ft using coax cable without difficulty.

Buy two 10baseT (10mbit/sec only) hubs that have a 10base2 (BNC)
connector. Connect one at each end. You're done.

You can also use 10base2 to 10baseT media converters or a coax balun
made for the purpose. Two of these baluns:
http://www.multilet.com/us/baseband/product_range/produ...
should work. I prefer the hubs or media converters, but the baluns
are cheaper.

If you can't find RG-58A/U, try 75ohm RG-6/u cable TV coax. (Do NOT
use RG-59/u). You'll need some F to BNC adapters. Don't worry about
the mismatched impedances.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558
Related resources
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
July 19, 2004 5:50:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

"Strider" <email-address@signature.okay> wrote in message
news:MPG.1b659cdf7d22116398a01e@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk...
[snip]
> Here is my question. I want to share my internet connection with my
> mother who lives about 100-150 meters away. Line of site is not
> obtainable. And my last point, I need to be able to do this as cheaply
> as possible.

You can:

1. Use a modem at each end, and enable Internet Connection Sharing. It ties
up the phone line, but modems are cheap.
2. Try to "dogleg" from your house to a midpoint, and then to your mother's
house. You'll need a cooperative neighbor, and three antennas.
3. Run a wire along the fences, and put in line drivers.

HTH.

Bill
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
July 19, 2004 6:00:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Strider <email-address@signature.okay> wrote in
news:MPG.1b659cdf7d22116398a01e@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk:

> Here is my question. I want to share my internet connection with my
> mother who lives about 100-150 meters away. Line of site is not
> obtainable. And my last point, I need to be able to do this as cheaply
> as possible.

If LOS is not possible... Wireless most likely is not either. Can you place
a tower or mast on the house?

Can you run a cable from your house to her house? If so, you could run your
own DSL line to the house, then bridge the line into your network and
enable internet sharing on it. Blackbox.com and other network hardware
vendors sell DSL converters upto 8mbps.

Otherwise you're stuck with using 2 analog modems to connect the houses.
However, if you're using modems - you might as well get your mom her own
internet account.

--
Lucas Tam (REMOVEnntp@rogers.com)
Please delete "REMOVE" from the e-mail address when replying.
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/coolspot18/
July 20, 2004 12:33:33 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

William Warren proclaimed...

> You can:
>
> 1. Use a modem at each end, and enable Internet Connection Sharing. It ties
> up the phone line, but modems are cheap.

Thanks. The idea however was for her to share my always on 1.5mbit
connection though.

> 2. Try to "dogleg" from your house to a midpoint, and then to your mother's
> house. You'll need a cooperative neighbor, and three antennas.

In Howdon. I don't think so...

> 3. Run a wire along the fences, and put in line drivers.

Not practical. Thanks for trying.
July 20, 2004 12:34:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Lucas Tam proclaimed...

> If LOS is not possible... Wireless most likely is not either. Can you place
> a tower or mast on the house?
>
> Can you run a cable from your house to her house? If so, you could run your
> own DSL line to the house, then bridge the line into your network and
> enable internet sharing on it. Blackbox.com and other network hardware
> vendors sell DSL converters upto 8mbps.
>
> Otherwise you're stuck with using 2 analog modems to connect the houses.
> However, if you're using modems - you might as well get your mom her own
> internet account.

She has already, I just figured she might as well share mine since she
only browses and reads email.

Thanks
July 20, 2004 12:35:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

dep_blueman proclaimed...

> What is blocking the LOS? e.g. another house (how many, what
> construction, etc), trees, earth, etc.

A three story flat. Nothing else really.
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
July 20, 2004 2:09:42 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

In article <MPG.1b6640d25a2c570398a027@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk>,
Strider <email-address@signature.okay> wrote:
:D ep_blueman proclaimed...

:> What is blocking the LOS? e.g. another house (how many, what
:> construction, etc), trees, earth, etc.

:A three story flat. Nothing else really.

If you asked nicely (and especially if you offered some $$), the owner
of the flat might be willing to let you put a reflector on top of the
flat. It'd be like bouncing the signal off a mirror -- works fine if
you can get the right angles.

--
I predict that you will not trust this prediction.
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
July 20, 2004 6:47:40 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 20:36:14 GMT, Strider
<email-address@signature.okay> wrote:

>Running a cable is not an option.

Sure it is. Through the sewers, horizontal drilling under the
roadway, up the phone poles and across the road, down the fence line,
etc. There's usually a way.

NLOS (non-line of sight) wireless is the holy grail of the industry.
Everyone claims they can do it, but few succeed. From personal
experience, any obstruction in the Fresnel zone are is going to yield
flakey propogation, variable reliability, and weird problems as the
signals go up and down. At 150 meters distance, there's almost always
a way to get line of sight. Lacking that, you can bounce off the side
of a building, or use a store and forward repeater:
http://www.dlink.com/products/?pid=267
located at some point that can see both ends.


--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831.336.2558 voice http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
# jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
# 831.421.6491 digital_pager jeffl@cruzio.com AE6KS
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
July 20, 2004 9:25:31 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 08:55:32 GMT, Strider
<email-address@signature.okay> wrote:
>
>Here is my question. I want to share my internet connection with my
>mother who lives about 100-150 meters away. Line of site is not
>obtainable. And my last point, I need to be able to do this as cheaply
>as possible.
How are the phone wires in the neighborhood?
Do both of your phone service drops come from the same box? Are there
a couple of unused pairs in there from each premise? You could tone
from your house to the box, and from her house to the box. Cross
connect it. Run 10 base-T ethernet over it. Don't tell anyone, they
will likely never notice. Shhhhh.
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
July 20, 2004 12:10:43 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 05:25:31 -0700, "Steevo@my-deja.com"
<steevo@my-deja.com> wrote:

>How are the phone wires in the neighborhood?
>Do both of your phone service drops come from the same box? Are there
>a couple of unused pairs in there from each premise? You could tone
>from your house to the box, and from her house to the box. Cross
>connect it. Run 10 base-T ethernet over it. Don't tell anyone, they
>will likely never notice. Shhhhh.

Telco cable works very well at 10baseT rates. I have a customer that
has a single 25 pair telco bundle going between facilities buildings
that are 750 ft apart (wire run distance). I have just about
everything you can imagine running on those 25 pairs. Video, a pair
of SDSL modems, ADSL, 10baseT ethernet, wireline remote radio
controls, alarm signals, RS-422, Meridian phone system, and of course
POTS telco. Since it's buried, I'm not concerned about radiation
issues (it's at a radio site). You'll need two pairs for 10baseT.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558
July 20, 2004 12:24:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Jeff Liebermann proclaimed...

> Sure it is. Through the sewers, horizontal drilling under the
> roadway, up the phone poles and across the road, down the fence line,
> etc. There's usually a way.

I'm sure you're speaking from the viewpoint of the Country you're in. In
England you'd get into a lot of trouble for doing stuff like this.

> NLOS (non-line of sight) wireless is the holy grail of the industry.
> Everyone claims they can do it, but few succeed. From personal
> experience, any obstruction in the Fresnel zone are is going to yield
> flakey propogation, variable reliability, and weird problems as the
> signals go up and down. At 150 meters distance, there's almost always
> a way to get line of sight. Lacking that, you can bounce off the side
> of a building, or use a store and forward repeater:
> http://www.dlink.com/products/?pid=267
> located at some point that can see both ends.

I can see this is going to be a lot more difficult/expensive than I
thought it would be.

I'll wait till technology improves and prices fall.
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
July 20, 2004 6:00:55 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

"Strider" <email-address@signature.okay> wrote in message
news:MPG.1b66407be2c312d598a025@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk...
> William Warren proclaimed...
>
> > You can:
> >
> > 1. Use a modem at each end, and enable Internet Connection Sharing. It
ties
> > up the phone line, but modems are cheap.
>
> Thanks. The idea however was for her to share my always on 1.5mbit
> connection though.

Well, she _would_ be sharing it: she just wouldn't be paying an ISP for the
connection. It would always be on when she dialed up your home ;-).

> > 2. Try to "dogleg" from your house to a midpoint, and then to your
mother's
> > house. You'll need a cooperative neighbor, and three antennas.
>
> In Howdon. I don't think so...

If you know some tenants in the building that's in the way, you can do a
deal with them and put wireless bridges in their apartment(s), with
directional antennas aimed at your mother's and your houses. Of course,
they'd share the connection too, but in return you get power, a dry
environment, and no insurance bill.

> > 3. Run a wire along the fences, and put in line drivers.
>
> Not practical. Thanks for trying.

You're welcome: I also suggest you chat up your local ham radio operators.
You can find out who they are by contacting the Radio Society of Great
Britain (RSGB) at http://www.rsgb.org.uk/. Hams are always glad to help, and
you're in a lot of luck because of your location: microwave is _very_ big in
the Great Britain ham community, so there's an excellent chance that an
"Elmer" can advise you on how to solve the problem.

Of course, _THEY_ might want to share your connection, too, but if they have
access to a tower or other tall structure with LOS to both houses, that's
only fair.

Good luck. Trust me: there's a way, even if it means putting on a climbing
belt and doing it yourself.

Bill
July 20, 2004 10:13:55 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Experiment with a laptop to see what kind of range you get, then take 20
minutes to make a directional antenna and see if you get significantly
more range. They can be made cheaply with cardboard and aluminum foil
(do some searchs on the web for construction info). Based on that, you
might be able to make an assessment as to whether more investment is
worth it.

Finally, and this is just a thought, but there are
ethernet-over-power-line devices that are available. I have no
experience with them and I am not sure how far the range goes...but
since you are all likely on the same little section of the grid...might
be worth testing. You just might be able to plug in a couple adapters
in the wall and be done.

http://www.linksys.com/products/product.asp?grid=34&sci...

--
jP
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
July 21, 2004 3:04:40 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 08:24:04 GMT, in alt.internet.wireless , Strider
<email-address@signature.okay> wrote:

>Jeff Liebermann proclaimed...
>
>> Sure it is. Through the sewers, horizontal drilling under the
>> roadway, up the phone poles and across the road, down the fence line,
>> etc. There's usually a way.
>
>I'm sure you're speaking from the viewpoint of the Country you're in. In
>England you'd get into a lot of trouble for doing stuff like this.

Even in England you can do this. It will however be expensive as you'll
need wayleave (or whatever its called) over all the intervening land.

>I can see this is going to be a lot more difficult/expensive than I
>thought it would be.

Basically with unlicensed radio its a nonstarter unless you can get
planning permission to erect a mast high enough to have LOS to your target
machine. And then you have a massive security problem as you're
broadcasting to a wide area.

>I'll wait till technology improves and prices fall.

If you think about it, the technology is there already. Consider: you can
get FM radio signals in both houses that comes from a mast some miles away
without LOS to both premises, and works in every room, through walls and
even underground. So what you need is adequate power, and the right
freqency. Both are likely to be in the licensed band.
--
Mark McIntyre
CLC FAQ <http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html&gt;
CLC readme: <http://www.angelfire.com/ms3/bchambless0/welcome_to_clc...;


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