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A Multiplayer Melee on Female Gamers

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April 11, 2006 5:14:42 PM

Women gamers are getting more notoriety these days, but do they have the stuff to beat the men in video game competitions? Or are they simply getting more attention for their looks and provocative pin-up pictures? Aaron McKenna, managing editor of Tom's Hardware UK
April 11, 2006 7:00:15 PM

First and Foremost, Aaron, I wanna smack you!

hrm anyway. I'd like to point out that being a female gamer is slightly a whirlwind. For the early years of my gaming I posed as a man to avoid the "OMG a Girl! Show us your boobs!" comments. You have no idea how common this is... and how common it is for girls to hide under the male mask.

I have been in a all girl clan. HEADACHE big time. It's not worth it IMO. And I'm sure almost all female gamers have either tried one, or heard the stories. There are alot of REAL girl gamer clans that don't do publicity stunts and don't show up to those gaming conventions cuz they just want to play the game and prefer not to have the attention. Some of the most skilled female players I know are in male populated clans, not whoring themselves, actually playing the game with other skilled players enjoying it like everyone else.

Yes, there are "attention whore" players.. but you can't base an opinion on every girl gamer based on a few of these "attention getters". As in everything, there are select people who like to say "woo! look at me!" and a few that like to hide in the shadows and just do what they do.

To me, this article is the same as saying that every gamer out there is a middle aged loser that is living in his parents basement going nowhere in life. Is that you?
April 11, 2006 8:18:20 PM

Quote:
First and Foremost, Aaron, I wanna smack you!

Hey, don't forget to read the editors note at the top. It's like debate team - you argue the PoV you're given to the best of your ability. Saying that I do agree with the gist of what I said (yes, I agree with myself, well done there Aaron...) in that most female clans that have gained success have not done so based on their gaming skills.

I also think that this cycle prevents a change in thinking that would allow women to play videogames with the stupid stuff going on.

Quote:

Yes, there are "attention whore" players.. but you can't base an opinion on every girl gamer based on a few of these "attention getters". As in everything, there are select people who like to say "woo! look at me!" and a few that like to hide in the shadows and just do what they do.

That's exactly what I'm saying - but so long as all we get at the top are the ones who whip 'em out at the first sign of their five minutes of fame and ten dollars of room service (I imagine myself saying that with Rob's accent) then the quiet ones will never get to the top.

A lot of the male professional gamers are very quiet types who, if they were women with the exact same skills, would not be able to get to the top as anything other than eye candy. That's my point, essentially.
Related resources
April 11, 2006 8:19:50 PM

I really dont care if I get beat by a guy or girl just that I got beat.
April 11, 2006 8:33:09 PM

I do see aaron's point. I think it is slightly blown out of proportion, but I do see it.

Female gamers are treated special because of their percieved rarity. Those that make a spectacle of themselves will get even more attention.

I disagree however that this prevents the ones who don't whore themselves out from succeeding. If a female clan does not whore themselves out then they will not be likely to be passed over for offers simply because they are female.

Yeah they will be encouraged to do so and it will give them a short term benefit, but it will not ruin it for the others, just themselves. Other female gamer clans who don't do that will likely be treated as any other group would with perhaps a slight preferance.

Personally I think the idea of female gamer clans is by its very nature sexualizing the issue. I would wager that the majority of really good female gamers are in mixed clans that are predominantly male.
April 11, 2006 10:24:22 PM

I am sick of sexism in the computing/ technology field in general. I have never been (and hopefully never will be) a member of a gaming clan, but I do play CS:S a lot. :oops:  Even though I only play one online game, the amount of sexism i see is disgusting.

Hoo-rah for Western culture :evil: 
April 11, 2006 10:43:09 PM

Quote:
i have to admit to making a few jokes when a female gamer turns up on a server. i mean no harm and say so but the odd what you wearing joke does crop up.

i haven't met too many female players playing CS:S and dod but the ones i have met tend to be quite good. one dod server i play on, is the E.F.F clans server. they have a few female clan members and even though i'm pretty good myself they are a challenge to beat or keep up with.

it is a shame that some women find it hard to be taken seriously but i will say this. since FPS games formeost require hand eye co-ordination, women are not in any inferior to women and so i mock them at your peril.

You admit to knocking off jokes simply because someone is a woman, and then say it's a shame that they find it hard to be taken seriously. I think that that's about the size of the problem...
April 11, 2006 11:02:05 PM

Well, it doesn't really matter if a game involves male or female, it just means 1 more person is playing the game you enjoy. Seriously, I'd rather meet a female who understands gaming rather than the "stereotypical" girlfriend who complains about their boyfriend's facination about video games.

On a side note, I did try Ragnarok Online and World of Warcraft (as an experimentation in a female's perspective). I'm a guy of course. Let's say I see more ridicule against females than gays. I'm not gay, btw... :?
April 11, 2006 11:43:29 PM

Anyone gaming online who advertises any personal info with no relevant reason--(ie, "hey im 13 and i beet u teeheehee How old r u", "hi im a gurl u know cani join ur clan", "I live 30 miles west of blah blah over blah blah...") I tend to ignore them.

I try not to get personal while playing games online at all. Therefore, I only know females from males when they volunteer that information. This way I avoid this entire debate altogether (uhoh I'm here--apparently not 8O ). Same way to avoid issues regarding race, age, etc. A person is a person, a gamer is a gamer--I may be in a clan of all girls and have no idea. It doesn't mean anything different about my playing style, why should it?

BTW, as a one time all-important single exception to my rule I shall ask here--CHEEZball (or any other girl who plays online), is this the wrong attitude for me to have? Am I wrong?
April 12, 2006 12:57:03 AM

Wow. How telling...some people game for fun, but still try to have a life outside of the computer. That's what I thought anyways...

...are all online gamers that immature? Maybe so...am I alone here?
April 12, 2006 1:43:31 AM

Quote:
Wow. How telling...some people game for fun, but still try to have a life outside of the computer. That's what I thought anyways...

...are all online gamers that immature? Maybe so...am I alone here?


definitely not all... that's a universal statement, and those are never true. There is almost always an exception, even if it be a tiny minority. And you are not alone,... but I know that some gamers can be pretty darn immature, and sexist/interested in sex (as if that's all girls are good for). Women are much more than just objects. I have many female friends, and our relationships as friends have nothing to do with gender. We're just ordinary friends,... however, sometimes it seems the rest of the world differs. We live in a sex crazed world.
April 12, 2006 1:44:14 AM

You know what really makes me HATE female gamers??

The fact that they give us gamer nerds crap for years, then come to play our games and expect us to treat them with respect and as equals!!

I am a 35 year old computer geek virgin. Girls have avoided me like the plague for as long as I can remember. It's not because I am over fat, ugly or poor. On the contrary, I am a 6'4" hulk with reasonable looks and money to burn. However the fact that I spent more time playing games, tinkering with computers and in general living the life of a techie, that branded me one of those computer geek freaks.

Girls would make fun of me or just flatly refused to have anything to do with me during school, uni and work life. Any attempt to talk with them would end up with snide remarks about being a geek or the usual brush off because of [insert lame excuse here]. So in short women have pretty much disrespected me all my life.

What to I do to escape it, I immerse myself in my computer games. Getting online with my favourite MMO is like going down to the pub to mull over the troubles of the day with your mates.. in this case it was my online clan.

However, now I have to deal with women starting to play these games. No longer can I chat to my clan about the troubles of the day without someone reminding me to tone it down because so-and-so is a girl IRL and heaven forbid she might get offended. :x

Online games were once the boys only club that you could go to, as a refuge from the women that like to give is geeks grief. No longer this is the case. :( 

What's worse is that these girls now demand that we respect them... they can go and get f'ed if they think they can dump insults and remarks on us guy gamers, then expect us to treat them like the prim and proper princesses they want to me made out to be. :evil: 

The skanks should go back to "The Sims Online", and leave the REAL gaming to us men... like it SHOULD be.
April 12, 2006 2:00:46 AM

i dont care who is on the other side of the comp, console or handheld, if u play, u play and either you get owned or i do and thats all that matters
April 12, 2006 2:08:21 AM

wow you've just been unlucky :p  come idle with my clan and learn the ways my friend ;) 
April 12, 2006 2:28:15 AM

Personally it seems as if everything in the "extremist" portion of culture is portrayed far too much. I have several female friends I use to play Halo with, never really thought anything of it either, other than the fact they were fellow gamers. I do not look at male/female being anything important while gaming, becuase in the gaming world, your composed of one's and zero's... :lol:  ( I must say,the girls I played with were quite good too).

I agree, this "Suicide" girls gaming clan recieves un-due attention simply becuase there a 'minority' in their field (gaming that is) and they happen to be quite extreme.(ala, half naked ) and IMO mis-representing the majority of female gamers. Its the extreme factions that always get the attention: Ie...religous groups, private interest groups and lawmakers (lol)

@Cheezball

I understand why you would pose as a male while online.
I use to play CS 1.6 very heavily and if somebody would come on under
a name that eve sounded "female" they would be questioned to no end...

At the end of the day, if your playing a game with me, and you happen to be having fun while providing a good gaming atmosphere, good attitude and provide competition, I couldnt care what sex you are.

@Sandman

Where are the Browns on that list??
Where are the Indians too while I"m at it?????
April 12, 2006 7:49:26 AM

Wow - I really want to go off on a couple of these posts but I'm going to be nice and hold my tounge.

For any of you guys out there - I'm going to hand you this challenge - play a day as a female. Portray yourself as a girl online and see the difference in how you're treated. A lot of guys don't understand the flack girl gamers take for being just that - a girl. I take pride in being a girl and being able to hold my own with the boys.

I was one of the gamer girls at GDC with the PMS Clan and we actually were able to have a couple of the developers from Bungi over to our place and had them get on halo2 with us online as guests on our PMS tags. They've always heard about the crap talking and verbal abuse thats thrown our way - but were VERY surprised to actually hear what was coming out of the tv speakers. Now - everyone knows that XBL is filled with pre-pubscent boys who have raging hormones and cracking voices (much like Ripper (I couldn't resist that one dig) ) and pretty much fulfill the comic referenced above to a T - but there are respectful people who understand the concept of I'm-a-gamer-you're-a-gamer-let's-play. But the guys from Bungi were taken aback at what is said to us. And rightly so I might add.

Girl gamers use to the the title girl gamers (hence the title of the radio show at GameShout.com Gamer Girl Radio) to further themselves and seperate ourselves from the pack. Heck yes we're going to use our distinction as girls to help us get sponsors and to show to ignorant, closeminded, not very nice people that there ARE legitimate female gamers out there and to get credibility for girl gamers.

There are cute girl gamers who CAN game and who are serious gamers - who don't only pose for pinups. And as soon as guys realize that the sex doesn't matter - girls will stop using the distinction of girl gamer. It's up to the industry and society to accept us and let us game in peace.
April 12, 2006 8:35:13 AM

By the way, my personal views on the subject: I don't care who's on the other screen. They're just another bunch of pixels trying to destroy my bunch of pixels. Whether they're male, female, black, white, whatever doesn't matter. I regularly host LANs at my place with one or two girls and a few guys, nobody seems to care, and they manage to hold their own pretty well.
April 12, 2006 8:42:21 AM

Quote:
"OMG a Girl! Show us your boobs!" comments. You have no idea how common this is... and how common it is for girls to hide under the male mask.


Yes, yes. I can attest to this. Within 5 mins I made this remark to Cheez.

Horrendously sexist on my part.

But I dig the fact that female gamers are out there. Its all good. I get the shites dealing with a bunch of blokes all day long.

I've not come across any chicks who are up-themselves online.

In fact, why dont you do an article about the number of young guys who act like disrespectful asses? Thats a major problem.

In fact, harping back to my uni days, I wrote a thesis on the developed world's masculinity crisis. Azza, analyse juvenile male performances online and you'll discover some horror behavioural trends:- anti-social, sexist, narrow-minded, racist etc..

Interesting stuff. If anything, we should be lauding the fact that females are playing online, under what I can see as being rather tricky circumstances.
April 12, 2006 11:26:01 AM

Quote:
you'll discover some horror behavioural trends:- anti-social, sexist, narrow-minded, racist etc..


Don't forget the rampant homophobia. I swear, no one is more afraid of homosexuals than online males.
April 12, 2006 11:51:39 AM

When I was playing Guild Wars regularly, I had three characters, one of which was female (Why a female? Why not? At the time I thought the characteristics were differently weighted for female and male avatars - they weren't but I didn't want to start my Archer-Cleric over). I encountered some sexist comments but nothing I hadn't already observed occurring when male players thought they encountered other "women." (Btw, I suspect 80% of the "female" players in MMOs are males.)

I stopped playing MMOs because of the interactions with other players. Too many loafers (join the group and then do nothing while others work to complete the quest), drop-outs (get the loot they want and then leave the party while it's still fighting), cheaters (made CS impossible to play), team killers (even one of my favorite PC gaming magazines printed favorite TK tricks), professional farmers (standing over the respawn point and not letting anyone else get at the beast and/or treasure), and white boys trying to talk gangsta trash by spewing antigay, anti-everything verbiage that took all the fun out of the game (and no, I'm not that sensitive to bad language - I was a combat Marine and I've been called things that would melt paint, but why should I put up with amateurs?). These problems were, imho, far greater than whether or not a group of women on a professional gaming team relied on their gaming skills or their anatomy.

The reason women are hired by sponsors to show their skin is that a large proportion of gamers are adolescent boys (chronologically or mentally) and skin attracts attention. This is no more significant than product placement ads in games and both are about the same thing, making money.

So I'll play Oblivion alone, MechWarrior online with my team from the nineties, and obtain female companionship the old fashioned way, by buying it. :oops:  No, I mean by dating... :wink:

Lobo
April 12, 2006 1:27:12 PM

You know... I completely agree with everything that was said in that article. A prefect example of the argument you offer comes from Lineage 2. During the time that I actively played L2 I found it beyond disturbing how in the "Faces for the Names" type threads, the girls that posted the "My face is cute but look! You can see my clevage" type pictures not only almost always had the BEST armor (after only playing for very limited amounts of time) but also had people willing to party up with them at the drop of a F'ing hat... or should I say the drop of a bra strap? Where as I, who am more of a geek than some of the guys I know, work hard at getting every item/point of exp I have. Which is how it has been and should be... but now I have to deal with these Power-Leveled/Twinked Out chicks that come along after a week and take me out with no chance at even getting a hit in cause all they want to do is be the highest lvl with the best stuff and the best PvP rating. Now don't get me wrong... if thats how they want to approach the game then well... I can't stop them. But for pete's sake haha don't take all the healers and tanks with you! But on the brightside... they help me to sort out the "real" gamers from the "hop and bop/hack and slash" types that tend to find their way into some MMO's. Anyone thats willing to fawn and follow them around isn't who I'd want to party up with anyway. So... now that I've completely rambled on... It's as much the fault of the guys as it is the girls... most guys like breasts and butts... these chicks like to show them... haha I suppose if more people had the "Your a girl... uhh... okay... So?" attitude haha and made them feel stupid for doing crap like that... maybe... *clasps her hands together and prays* maybe they'll just faaaade awaaayyyy....


Quote:
I suspect 80% of the "female" players in MMOs are males.


From what I find...your right. Who wouldn't when it means free stuff? :roll:

Quote:
white boys trying to talk gangsta trash by spewing antigay, anti-everything verbiage that took all the fun out of the game.


haha True. Teen(and some "adult")/|337 5p34k1n6/OMGWTFBBQ/Wut Up Maine kids do indeed ruin a lot of games... more-so than the attention whores haha

Quote:
The reason women are hired by sponsors to show their skin is that a large proportion of gamers are adolescent boys (chronologically or mentally) and skin attracts attention. This is no more significant than product placement ads in games and both are about the same thing, making money.


Also a valid point... Maybe theres a way to team the immature boys with the attention whores... that way everyones happy and us big kids can go back to what we were doing. HAHA Seems like a good idea...
April 12, 2006 2:17:02 PM

Quote:
Girl gamers use to the the title girl gamers (hence the title of the radio show at GameShout.com Gamer Girl Radio) to further themselves and seperate ourselves from the pack. Heck yes we're going to use our distinction as girls to help us get sponsors and to show to ignorant, closeminded, not very nice people that there ARE legitimate female gamers out there and to get credibility for girl gamers.

There are cute girl gamers who CAN game and who are serious gamers - who don't only pose for pinups. And as soon as guys realize that the sex doesn't matter - girls will stop using the distinction of girl gamer. It's up to the industry and society to accept us and let us game in peace.


I have to agree with just about everything you've written, but this part throws me a bit. If gender doesn't matter and shouldn't matter, aren't you contributing to the problem by advertising as a girl gamer? That smacks a bit of having your cake and eating it too. Or maybe I'm just missing the distinction ..?
April 12, 2006 2:17:36 PM

It's hard to classify female gamers as serious or as decorative, when Olympic athletes pose nude.
April 12, 2006 2:21:22 PM

I'm older, I'm female, and I've been gaming for over 15 yrs. In years gone by, if my gender came out (and I didn't hide it but I didn't spout it either), there was a definite tendency for guys to twink my chars.

Once I understood gaming, and why I was being twinked, I didn't want the "help". I also didn't like it that groups suddenly felt they had to change their language, joke topics, etc. because there was a female listening. I wasn't there as a social statement--I was there as a player who wanted to learn.

How better to learn than to do it the same way most guys do? Sure, after I have a handle on things and I'm part of a clan/guild, I'll accept help on quests or the odd piece of eq--just like any guy would. But I want to play and have the same kind of fun that the guys do and I offer the same help and free eq in return to guildies.

So, guys--don't do me any favors because I'm female. I've always played a priest/cleric and my gender probably influences that. But I'm damn good at it and treating me differently because of gender just takes away from my ability to learn to play and play well. If you want me to be a fab, dependable healer/buffer, then *I* have to be the one to know how to do that--same goes with any other class.

If you are uncomfortable using certain language around me, that's your problem, not mine. If you want to be gallant, go find a RL woman and be as gallant as you like-she'll probably appreciate it. But let me become a good player by treating me as just that--a player.
April 12, 2006 2:21:42 PM

Porno stars too.
April 12, 2006 4:25:28 PM

Re: Cheez....
You are correct. As I wrote in my end of the debate (while using Aaron as a human shield, of course), we tend to notice the people in life that draw attention to themselves and we generated sterotypes thinking those folks are the norm, when they're not. So we notice the naked female gamers and not the girls who shun the publicity stunts and are simply good gamers that can hold their own with the guys. Similarly, we notice the online gamers with sexist and homophobic attitudes more because they stand out against the millions of online gamers who don't.
"I love women!"
--Clerks

Re: RipperjackAU....
I'm just throwing this out there, but maybe girls avoid you because you hold raging, violently misogynistic attitudes toward the female gender and your Forum name is derived from a notorious serial killer. Honestly, if you think you're alone as being the only computer geek that was ever ridiculed by the cheerleaders and popular girls in school, then you're not only being sexist -- you're being incredibly self-centered. The difference is you still seem to want to carry that rage with you 20 years later and man, that's no way to live.
"Charlie, two word: therapy."
-- So I Married an Axe Murderer
April 12, 2006 5:01:33 PM

There are three types of players. Me, The Clan...and the enemy.

End of line.
April 12, 2006 5:56:00 PM

Wait a second, how come no one has pointed the absolute absurdity that is professional gaming? Wake up people, you are not athletes. Your skills with leet micromanagement are not a measure of athletic prowess.

Sexism in MMOs is something that still astounds me. Honestly if you want to play a female avatar in WoW then play a night elf rogue. Everyone assumes you are male, why? Because only men are attracted to the twitch gameplay style that is a WoW rogue, all the real women play healers, am I rite?

One would think with sites like SomethingAwful.com poking fun at male MMO players by posing as a female in an attempt to score free gold from them that they would get a little more wise to a few facts. A. Most women in MMOs are not B. Chances are the one you are sweet on is not C. Real women cannot be differentiated from any other unless they reveal it and D. In most cases, the ones that do reveal it are drama queens and will make your online life a living hell. This is double true if its an RP server.

I deleted my rant about girl gamer clans. Why? Because I felt it was a little too scathing and the longer I ranted, the more muddled the point became. So here it is...female gamers promoting their sex are not doing it out of the want for equality, but to attention whore and seek special treatment. It's also easier to gain recognition then to join a male dominated "clan" and work your way up from the bottom incognito.
April 12, 2006 6:05:57 PM

Quote:
There are three types of players. Me, The Clan...and the enemy.

End of line.


Right the F on. :twisted:



Would you say that was a design problem or an engineering problem?
(Did I get that right?) :roll:
April 12, 2006 6:10:47 PM

[/blatant add]

We need more females playing the multiplayer ww2 FPS Red Orchestra: Ostfront 41-45. It would not only be historically accurate (at least for the Russians), they were usually favorably given sniper rifles for their steadier hands and greater patience.

Also RO:o  does not offer a playable female character on either side (german vs russian) yet. I'm sure an influx of women would help with that.

www.redorchestragame.com

-Doobie

[blatant add]
April 12, 2006 6:13:31 PM

Quote:
Women gamers are getting more notoriety these days, but do they have the stuff to beat the men in video game competitions? Or are they simply getting more attention for their looks and provocative pin-up pictures? Aaron McKenna, managing editor of Tom's Hardware UK


Hey, I'm Al Suicide and y'all have a picture of me in the article this particular thread is discussing.

Why?

I am not a gamer, nor do I claim to be, nor do the majority of SGs claim to be, and if it was decided my picture would be used because I have a set where I pose with a Neo Geo box that my then boyfriend and I gutted and rebuilt to contain an NES emulator and a new controller, why wasn't a picture from that set used? Or at least a picture where I don't look all gimpy.

I'm a mathematician, so yeah, maybe that makes me a geek, but I'm just not a gamer. Sometimes I play Battlefield 2 online with the OMC but I suck at it.

Do I think it's weak that girls use their boobs to impress guys online and stand in for actual skills? Yes, but usually these girls do this in many facets of their lives (using their looks to get what they want), and I think it's rude and unfair of you to lump ME in with them. I am a relatively good mathematician. I am not superb, I am not good "for a girl", I'm just good, and I don't expect special treatment in my field just because I'm pretty. It doesn't make me any better at math, and it certainly doesn't make me any friends.

If y'all just decided to use my picture for some random reason, not because you think I'm a representation of SG gamers, fine, but I think it misrepresents me. You could have at least could have asked me first.
April 12, 2006 6:51:09 PM

Quote:
We had it in our records. See this article from a few months back.


Ah, that explains why you have the picture. I didn't even know who those questions were for at the time, to be honest..

I still feel that I am being unfairly lumped in with girl gamers who play online or in competitions (which is something I suppose I should have clarified in my initial statement); I'm not a competitive gamer, if I even qualify as a gamer in the first place, as anyone who reads my answers in that article will surely conclude. I haven't been playing video games more since moving as I still prefer to drink and be outside my house, have never even played a MMORPG, and don't aspire to own a PS3 or an X-Box 360.

Unrelately, I would wager that it's just as difficult for geniune girl geeks to get laid as it is for guy geeks.
April 12, 2006 9:08:08 PM

"Wow - I really want to go off on a couple of these posts but I'm going to be nice and hold my tongue."

Great job holding your tongue. You are a personification of everything that many of these "hateful men" are complaining about and it has ZERO to do with what "organs" you got from the stork. You can be a female and not act like a "girl". A "girl" uses looks as a crutch, a female has other assets like a brain and self respect, a girl sells her soul for 5 min of fame, a female does not, a girl uses lies to get free drinks, a female has enough self respect to buy her own drinks. I as a "GAMER" respect other gamers but it is out of a mutual love of tech and games. I do not respect "girl gamers", "girl power", girl this or girl that because it has nothing to do with gaming, its simply a marketing ploy!!! I do on the other hand respect females that are "GAMERS" and females in general. Do you see the difference? A "gamer" is someone who has a hobby of gaming, it has nothing sexual attached to it. It simply is what it is. So remember I am a "gamer", you are a "girl gamer" and you created this rift not me. You did say "separate ourselves from the pack." your words not mine. You obviously cant see the forest from the trees.

Girls (not females) need to learn to look past themselves and look at the rest of the world. Gaming was never about what sex you are until girls made it that way. Its like the episode of south park with the south park flag: just cause you perceive it one way doesn’t mean others look at it in the same context. I never thought or cared about what sex people are when playing games until its shoved in my face (pHs clan and suicide girls). You talk about being closed minded and childish yet you slam ripper for his OPINIONS. Sounds like something a pre pubescent boy on live would do don’t you think? Ripper can only go by what life has shown him, he makes some good points and some bad points yet you only touch on the bad points. The moral of your story is that you feel insulted (aka "I could go off") which is what the true motivation behind your post is and yet again this is the problem. Its all about you and what can be done for you or "your" cause or how this offends YOU. Could it be offensive to some that you are being a hypocrite? I know I am offended. Yet no one is talking about going off on you.

You wanna play with the boys and be treated equal with the boys yet you fail to realize that boys are mean as hell to one another! All this bad talk you get on live, well I hear it every day on live regardless of if a girl is on or not. If your name is vtech32 the mustang guys will talk trash, if your name is mastachief32 the half-life 2 guys will talk trash, rapper31 the white trash guys will talk trash and it has nothing to do with sex. You had a chance of coming out of this thread looking not to bad but you hung yourself with the "Heck yes we're going to use our distinction as girls to help us get sponsors " comment. Nice crutches, hope you can learn to walk on your own one day. Are you a new member of metallica or does being a sell out come naturally? Do you have no honor or self respect? The problem isn’t me respecting you its you respecting you. You want to have your cake (being a respected gamer) but you wanna eat it too (being a attention hungry bimbo with no self respect) and life doesn’t work that way...... Well for males and females at least.... girls are another story

Girls don’t seem to get the point that to "use" yourself against men that are weak (no point in fighting guys, it keeps the species going) to your charm for gain is a soulless act that can be referred to as "the easy path". The "Its okay to exploit myself and other girls as long as I gain from it" attitude that the media uses as control for young females these days is just sad. "Girls" have no shame, its their calling card. I can't remember the last time I saw a dude and a horse in the same vid, I can't remember the last time I saw a dude in a concert vid getting made fun of and hit with random objects, I cant remember that last time a read something about girl gamers that didn’t involve them in little outfits and most of all I cant remember that the last time I saw a guy on live with a name like iamadude7 or guygamersrock or anything pointing to what sex they are. Get off the ego trip and stop worrying so much what other people think. I bet 100 bucks no one thinks about you half as much as you think they do or even a 1/4th as much as you do.

I may seem harsh but I am not a buttered toast bs kind of guy. batgirlPms if you rock at games good for you but in a professional environment professionalism is just as important as skill. Getting half naked for cash is hardly professional unless done purely in the context of art rather than porn.

“Do I think it's weak that girls use their boobs to impress guys online and stand in for actual skills? Yes, but usually these girls do this in many facets of their lives (using their looks to get what they want), and I think it's rude and unfair of you to lump ME in with them.” Well said you are a perfect example of a female rather than a girl. Much respect.
April 12, 2006 10:30:25 PM

Well, well, well... you want to talk about hypocrisy, let me tell you of my 7 day ban I just coped for posting a link on their discussion about female gamers, at MMORPG.com, back to this discussion.

It appears that Dana Massey obviously cannot deal with a few home truths! :x

About your outcry on my anger toward women? Blame all the women who gave my grief over the past 35 years. I am just a product of their short-sighted need to put down men, to validate their own existence!
April 13, 2006 12:19:33 AM

Quote:
...if you want to play a female avatar in WoW then play a night elf rogue. Everyone assumes you are male, why? Because only men are attracted to the twitch gameplay style that is a WoW rogue, all the real women play healers, am I rite?


Forgive me here for a moment....

haha I played a rogue... albeit for a 2 week trial run... but thats usually my class of choice. Theres far too much pressure placed in the healer classes for my liking. Same goes for tanking... haha. But back to my entire point for this post...

Was that sarcasim or is that true? haha hmm come to think of it... *wanders into her memory banks aimlessly*


Off topic a second time....

Quote:
Unrelately, I would wager that it's just as difficult for geniune girl geeks to get laid as it is for guy geeks.


... maybe.... ... no.... definitely
April 13, 2006 12:41:48 AM

You just happened to be the end of the list. No connection to your post was intended.
April 13, 2006 12:45:16 AM

This actually is a really good post from VirusE - I don't have a whole lot of time to reply, but I'm going to see what I can squeeze in in a few minutes.


Quote:
"Wow - I really want to go off on a couple of these posts but I'm going to be nice and hold my tongue."

Great job holding your tongue. You are a personification of everything that many of these "hateful men" are complaining about and it has ZERO to do with what "organs" you got from the stork. You can be a female and not act like a "girl". A "girl" uses looks as a crutch, a female has other assets like a brain and self respect, a girl sells her soul for 5 min of fame, a female does not, a girl uses lies to get free drinks, a female has enough self respect to buy her own drinks.


Anyone who has SOME business savvy doesn't use labels as a crutch - instead they embrace the labels and use the stereotypes to their advantage as much as they can. This is a ruthless, cutthroat world and you've got to do what you can to get your name out there. Now - I DON'T agree with girls posing scantily clad (I triple dog dare you to find a photo of me that would fall under the "questionable" or "sellout" catagory). I will never pose in an adult magazine no matter they offered me - I have personal standards and everyone has their own. Some girls feel that's the only way they can get their names out there. Sadly they dont realize it sets us back 2 steps.

Yeah - and I'm not always good at holding my tounge - I've got a very sarcastic sense of humour and can't always resist the temptation to take a dig at people.


Quote:
I as a "GAMER" respect other gamers but it is out of a mutual love of tech and games. I do not respect "girl gamers", "girl power", girl this or girl that because it has nothing to do with gaming, its simply a marketing ploy!!! I do on the other hand respect females that are "GAMERS" and females in general. Do you see the difference? A "gamer" is someone who has a hobby of gaming, it has nothing sexual attached to it. It simply is what it is. So remember I am a "gamer", you are a "girl gamer" and you created this rift not me. You did say "separate ourselves from the pack." your words not mine. You obviously cant see the forest from the trees.


A "gamer" doesn't make their living off gaming. A Pro gamer does - a person who has a persona in the entertainment industry does and to do that you HAVE to seperate yourself from the pack and make sure you have your gimick and something that makes you memorible. THAT'S why we use the label girl gamers. It also allows younger girls to view us as role models and identify with us easier than if we were "female gamers" or "women gamers". You're totally 100% right. The label is a complete marketing ploy. But when this is your job - you have to have it.

Quote:
Girls (not females) need to learn to look past themselves and look at the rest of the world. Gaming was never about what sex you are until girls made it that way.


You try telling that to the immature boys that I'm always running into online.If it weren't about sex - then why are the phrases 'bitch', 'whore', 'cunt', 'pussy', and 'you're worse than a girl' thrown around as insults? Notice ALL those phrases are degrading to women. If it's not about sex - then why does it MATTER if I have a gender affiliation in my GT??????
IRL - we don't take NEAR as much flack - the boys don't have the nuts to say that stuff to our face. When we attend lans and events we get a lot of respect actually - it's quite interesting.

Quote:
Its like the episode of south park with the south park flag: just cause you perceive it one way doesn’t mean others look at it in the same context. I never thought or cared about what sex people are when playing games until its shoved in my face (pHs clan and suicide girls). You talk about being closed minded and childish yet you slam ripper for his OPINIONS.


I wasn't slamming ripper for his opinions - I was slamming ripper for being an ASS and derogatory. He's free to his opinions - more power to him - I'm not going to shove my opinions down his throat, but I'm not going to stand by and let someone who's on a power trip who thinks their safe hiding behind a computer screen get away with saying several of the things he said.

Quote:
Sounds like something a pre pubescent boy on live would do don’t you think? Ripper can only go by what life has shown him, he makes some good points and some bad points yet you only touch on the bad points.


Lol - And you've touched on positive points in my post? Kay kettle.

Quote:
The moral of your story is that you feel insulted (aka "I could go off") which is what the true motivation behind your post is and yet again this is the problem. Its all about you and what can be done for you or "your" cause or how this offends YOU. Could it be offensive to some that you are being a hypocrite? I know I am offended. Yet no one is talking about going off on you.


You're more than welcome to go off on me. But as I'm sure you've figured out - I dont stand by idle. I have no problem standing up and defending my views and opinions, but I wont resort to a flame war (not insinuating you are - just stating).

Quote:
You wanna play with the boys and be treated equal with the boys yet you fail to realize that boys are mean as hell to one another!


Lol - trust me I do - I grew up with two older brothers which is why I've always been more comfortable competing on the same levels as males.

Quote:
All this bad talk you get on live, well I hear it every day on live regardless of if a girl is on or not.


No - you don't get deragotory, degrading, insulting statements thrown at you like girls do. Come play a couple rounds of Halo with me in a room some day and you'll see. I really would like you see what is said when a girl comes into the room. You'll see how different it really is and how it's not an equal playing field.....YET.

Quote:
If your name is vtech32 the mustang guys will talk trash, if your name is mastachief32 the half-life 2 guys will talk trash, rapper31 the white trash guys will talk trash and it has nothing to do with sex.
It's not about talking trash - I'll talk trash with the best of them. It's certain lines being crosses that shouldn't be crossed.


Quote:
You had a chance of coming out of this thread looking not to bad but you hung yourself with the "Heck yes we're going to use our distinction as girls to help us get sponsors " comment. Nice crutches, hope you can learn to walk on your own one day. Are you a new member of metallica or does being a sell out come naturally? Do you have no honor or self respect?


Mmmm...I do have honor, self respect, and oh yeah, I also have sponsors. You can get sponsors without selling out. Take a marketing class some day or a business class.

Quote:
The problem isn’t me respecting you its you respecting you. You want to have your cake (being a respected gamer) but you wanna eat it too (being a attention hungry bimbo with no self respect) and life doesn’t work that way...... Well for males and females at least.... girls are another story


Lol - and you said no one was going off on me? See you instantly decide what and who I am and what I stand for and believe in. These types of closeminded thoughts are what we're working to overcome. Try taking the blinders off for once and looking at the issue from a DIFFERENT point of view.

Quote:
Girls don’t seem to get the point that to "use" yourself against men that are weak (no point in fighting guys, it keeps the species going) to your charm for gain is a soulless act that can be referred to as "the easy path". The "Its okay to exploit myself and other girls as long as I gain from it" attitude that the media uses as control for young females these days is just sad. "Girls" have no shame, its their calling card. I can't remember the last time I saw a dude and a horse in the same vid, I can't remember the last time I saw a dude in a concert vid getting made fun of and hit with random objects, I cant remember that last time a read something about girl gamers that didn’t involve them in little outfits and most of all I cant remember that the last time I saw a guy on live with a name like iamadude7 or guygamersrock or anything pointing to what sex they are. Get off the ego trip and stop worrying so much what other people think. I bet 100 bucks no one thinks about you half as much as you think they do or even a 1/4th as much as you do.


Lol - trust me, I've worked my entire life to stay humble and not be on an ego trip. I don't care what people think of me - I care how people treat me and how other people are treated. There's a HUGE difference there.

Quote:
I may seem harsh but I am not a buttered toast bs kind of guy. batgirlPms if you rock at games good for you but in a professional environment professionalism is just as important as skill. Getting half naked for cash is hardly professional unless done purely in the context of art rather than porn.


I wear pull ups - I'd rather you didn't butter things. Nothing is more insulting to me than when someone tries to sugar coat thing. You brought up a couple good rebuttles - I enjoyed reading it.

Quote:
“Do I think it's weak that girls use their boobs to impress guys online and stand in for actual skills? Yes, but usually these girls do this in many facets of their lives (using their looks to get what they want), and I think it's rude and unfair of you to lump ME in with them.” Well said you are a perfect example of a female rather than a girl. Much respect.


Agreed.
April 13, 2006 2:00:56 AM




You two are confusing me...


anyway... a point to be made... anyone that is offended by any words that may or may not be typed directly or indirectly in response to them... no matter what those words are... is just silly. Personally I like the phrases
Quote:
'bitch', 'whore', 'cunt', 'pussy', and 'you're worse than a girl'
... I use them often haha in refrence to both genders.. i'm not picky. And if their offended... *shrug* The shoe must fit cause the truth hurts.
April 13, 2006 2:03:48 AM

Quote:
IRL - we don't take NEAR as much flack - the boys don't have the nuts to say that stuff to our face.


I do. Just because you may be a girl, does not mean I will cut you any slack on or off line.

Quote:
I wasn't slamming ripper for his opinions - I was slamming ripper for being an ASS and derogatory. He's free to his opinions - more power to him - I'm not going to shove my opinions down his throat, but I'm not going to stand by and let someone who's on a power trip who thinks their safe hiding behind a computer screen get away with saying several of the things he said.


Power trip?

No, just telling it how it is for me.

Hiding behind my computer screen?

Phfft. Yea right. I am not afraid of anybody online, especially an upstart wannabe female libber. I will quite happy voice my opinions, or "insult" you as you so eloquently put it, on of off line without any hesitation.
April 13, 2006 6:33:54 AM

Ripperjack.... seriously your statements are some of the most misogynistic filth I have seen in a long time. I grew up with the ridicule in jr high too, you know what? I grew up, they grew up, and it doesn't matter anymore.

Drop the anger and hatred and maybe you will notice that it is only the very small minority that is mocking you unjustly. If you walk around RL like you have in this forum it is no wonder you catch hell.

As for the rest of this, females who join girl gamer clans generally do it for the attention, good or ill.

In Tribes, I used a female model because it was slightly smaller and therefore less noticable at a distance behind terrain. I saw very little anti female trashtalk.

In City of Heroes, my highlev was a female character. Only once did I ever recieve sexist commentary and that was surprisingly enough in character for the one delivering the lines (we had a very amusing ooc chat about it).

In 3kingdoms (an old MUD I used to play on) I had a female character and stayed IN CHARACTER. Yes I did get some extra twinkage out of it, but not much, and there was only one other player I encountered in over 3 years who I felt was out of line.

What I did see were the occasional attention whores (female characters who drew attention to themselves) who did get a lot of the negative attention. Play like a normal person and it really doesn't happen all that much. Play like an attention starved girl and you will catch more than your share of hell. Thats been my experience in every online game I've ever played.

I couldn't honestly care less if some ladies want to show off a bit to get sponsors. Its a business deal and one that hurts noone as far as I am concerned.
April 13, 2006 6:45:39 AM

Quote:
Women gamers are getting more notoriety these days, but do they have the stuff to beat the men in video game competitions? Or are they simply getting more attention for their looks and provocative pin-up pictures? Aaron McKenna, managing editor of Tom's Hardware UK


I think its a damned shame what ever happened to nice little girls that stayed at home with the kids never said anything unless spoken to and otherwise knew nothing outside of the home....

I tell you we let them vote, drive and have a opinion eveything fell apart.

:wink:
April 13, 2006 6:52:42 AM

Quote:
Ripperjack.... seriously your statements are some of the most misogynistic filth I have seen in a long time. I grew up with the ridicule in jr high too, you know what? I grew up, they grew up, and it doesn't matter anymore.


It's because of people like you, I carry this anger to this day!

Quote:
Drop the anger and hatred and maybe you will notice that it is only the very small minority that is mocking you unjustly. If you walk around RL like you have in this forum it is no wonder you catch hell.


I DO live my live like this, and people fear me bacause of it! Just pray I never bump into IRL!
April 13, 2006 7:00:21 AM

Quote:
Ripperjack.... seriously your statements are some of the most misogynistic filth I have seen in a long time. I grew up with the ridicule in jr high too, you know what? I grew up, they grew up, and it doesn't matter anymore.


It's because of people like you, I carry this anger to this day!

Quote:
Drop the anger and hatred and maybe you will notice that it is only the very small minority that is mocking you unjustly. If you walk around RL like you have in this forum it is no wonder you catch hell.


I DO live my live like this, and people fear me bacause of it! Just pray I never bump into IRL!

8O
April 13, 2006 8:56:41 AM

Quote:
Ripperjack.... seriously your statements are some of the most misogynistic filth I have seen in a long time. I grew up with the ridicule in jr high too, you know what? I grew up, they grew up, and it doesn't matter anymore.


It's because of people like you, I carry this anger to this day!

Quote:
Drop the anger and hatred and maybe you will notice that it is only the very small minority that is mocking you unjustly. If you walk around RL like you have in this forum it is no wonder you catch hell.


I DO live my live like this, and people fear me bacause of it! Just pray I never bump into IRL!

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Wow - could this be the reason chicks avoid him?
Yeah......really scarey....lol - pray I never bump into IRL. :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol: 
Thanks - I haven't had a laugh that hard in a LONG time.
April 13, 2006 1:16:31 PM

Quote:
Thanks - I haven't had a laugh that hard in a LONG time.


The tragedy though is when you consider his perspective and think about how he must be interpreting this thread. I'll bet he sees these comments as YET ANOTHER example of everyone ganging up on him, especially the girls, making fun of him unjustly, blah-blah-blah ... without ever considering that maybe his behavior is (at least partially, RipperjackAU, will you give me that?) to blame.

I'm picturing somebody who keeps a list of People to Kill Someday in the back of a desk drawer, and now you're all on it. (Oh, I guess I mean WE'RE all on it. Is it suddenly colder in here?) ;) 
April 13, 2006 6:27:20 PM

“Anyone who has SOME business savvy doesn't use labels as a crutch - instead they embrace the labels and use the stereotypes to their advantage as much as they can. This is a ruthless, cutthroat world and you've got to do what you can to get your name out there.”

Being a horrible person for a check because “its my job and I need to be on top of my game” doesn’t win any points with me (not directed at you but your statement).

“Sadly they don’t realize it sets us back 2 steps.”

I agree, if females look at themselves as objects to be used for profit it will only feed into the perception that all females are objects. For this perception to stop the females need to stop.

“A "gamer" doesn't make their living off gaming. A Pro gamer does - a person who has a persona in the entertainment industry does and to do that you HAVE to separate yourself from the pack “

You are correct in a sense but are missing that the male “pro-gamers” generally get their sponsorships from kicking ass rather than showing ass. If you can only break in by differentiating yourself that’s your choice and is hardly wrong but look at it for what it is, the easy path. It’s no different than buying your WOW persona off of eBay. Its not wrong but its hardly the honorable thing to do. If you take the “easy path” and are okay with not being respected so be it, at least you are being honest to yourself but if you want respect and want to take the easy path you need to wake up.

“You try telling that to the immature boys that I'm always running into online.If it weren't about sex - then why are the phrases 'bitch', 'whore', 'cunt', 'pussy',”

Yes I am telling you that because its true. You are taking their comments personal and then emotion blinds you to the truth. The truth is these people are simply just bullies. They are in it to make you feel bad in an effort to look better. The second you bite into their bait you are getting what you deserve. If your name is harley07 the bullies that like sport bikes will rip on you and vice versa, if your name is mitsuevo32 the bullies that happen to own stangs will rip on you and vice versa, if you have a high voice the bullies that don’t have high voices will again make fun of you. The problem isn’t that you’re a female it’s that you use your screen name to portray real traits about yourself unlike most men. If you put girl this or that in your name you are doing so to advertise yourself. If you wear a target as a shirt and get shot you shouldn’t bitch.

“Notice ALL those phrases are degrading to women.”

No they are degrading to females who let themselves be degraded by childish non-sense. They are just words, its the context you give them that makes them more. Personally I don’t let comments 12 year olds that have never met me, know nothing about me and will never meet me get under my skin.. I know how perception works and that no matter what I do I will piss someone off and or someone will hate me for what ever view I take in life no matter how much “I” perceive my view as right or wrong. If you take anything in life personal you are missing how human interaction really works or you are to self absorbed to care.

“then why does it MATTER if I have a gender affiliation in my GT”

I wasn’t aware that it did. I know that in the billing info you had to give it (which is legit) but can one look at my xbox live tag and see it? If so then you bring up a good point. I don’t agree with it being listed if it is. Then again its not like ms is good old friendly people loving company.

“the boys don't have the nuts to say that stuff to our face.”

Again you are missing the truth behind this but you are correct in your statement. What you are missing is the fact that this has nothing to do with being a female, you are adding that context yourself. 9 out of 10 of these “kids” would never say any of that crap in public. I hear rich white 12 year olds drop the N bomb in EVERYGAME I play it seems like. Do you think these kids would say that crap in public? I don’t see people walk into Wendy’s calling the clerk a newb fag, getting a burger and then walking away. You are again taking this personal and playing the “it must be cause I am a girl card”. Could it be these people are just a-holes who will use ANY advantage to get a leg up on you? Keep in mind if you are pissed from a pre game brawl you will not be on the top of your game. Shiat talking is a very effective way to get a leg up on the weak minded and egocentric but is no different than using your body to get a leg up. Its all the easy path, its not “wrong” but it is the path of the weak.

“Lol - And you've touched on positive points in my post? Kay kettle.”

Owned me on that one! In all honest I write slllllooooooww as all hell and am very long winded. My first post got edited 3 times and I had to trim out some fat. Originally I did touch on some of you positive points but it got trimmed and some how I didn’t trim that statement. So I am sorry for what I said as I created only negative context and said otherwise

“But as I'm sure you've figured out - I don’t stand by idle.”

Not many people do these days, everyone has an opinion, everyone’s opinion is right, everyone suffers from cognitive dissonance and few people takes time to stand by at idle and think things through. Its easy to just let emotion run the show and be a creature of impulse.

“no problem standing up and defending my views and opinions”

Well yeah that kinda is a problem. Your “views and opinions” are just that “yours”. To defend ones views is to oppress the views of others. If you can speak you should be able to sit idle and listen from time to time.

“Lol - trust me I do - I grew up with two older brothers which is why I've always been more comfortable competing on the same levels as males. “

My statement was more to point out how mean boys are to one another in general.

“I really would like you see what is said when a girl comes into the room.”

Give me some credit, I game quite a bit and have played many games with and against girls. Do girls get flak? Yes but so does everyone else who puts personal info in their name, you on the other hand want a cookie for the flak you get. A buddy of mine is black and his name is dreadlok on live and he gets the n-bomb dropped on him by people in EVERY game even people in our clan would do it. You are not a unique and beautiful snow flake get over yourself.

“Lol - and you said no one was going off on me? See you instantly decide what and who I am and what I stand for and believe in.”

I was hardly going off on you. You like to create context that does not exist. You made statements in your first post that made you look like you thought some of this “girl” behavior was okay. In your second post you show that in “some” areas you do in fact not respect yourself or even some of the idea you are speaking of. You did clarify your point of view which was well done.

“Try taking the blinders off for once and looking at the issue from a DIFFERENT point of view.”

You are so blinded by YOU that you can not see that I am the one looking at it from other perspectives. The difference between us is that I know I, like EVERY human am at some point or another the asshole, the hypocrite, the liar and most of all wrong. All of your problems you have brought up fall back on you and how you CHOOSE to see the world but you just can’t see it because “everyone is against me”.

“I wear pull ups - I'd rather you didn't butter things.”

Rock on, I don’t want you to think I am down on you or that I think you are wrong. Someone has to play the devils advocate and EVERY story has two sides to deny that is to be one sided. You have balls, (a good example of a word that can be sexual but in the end gets meaning from the context in which its used) you fight a good fight and though I am giving you a good amount of shait you seem to be a female rather than a girl. Just please realize your suffering is hardly unique.
April 13, 2006 7:03:36 PM

Quote:
“Anyone who has SOME business savvy doesn't use labels as a crutch - instead they embrace the labels and use the stereotypes to their advantage as much as they can. This is a ruthless, cutthroat world and you've got to do what you can to get your name out there.”

Being a horrible person for a check because “its my job and I need to be on top of my game” doesn’t win any points with me (not directed at you but your statement).

“Sadly they don’t realize it sets us back 2 steps.”

I agree, if females look at themselves as objects to be used for profit it will only feed into the perception that all females are objects. For this perception to stop the females need to stop.

“A "gamer" doesn't make their living off gaming. A Pro gamer does - a person who has a persona in the entertainment industry does and to do that you HAVE to separate yourself from the pack “

You are correct in a sense but are missing that the male “pro-gamers” generally get their sponsorships from kicking ass rather than showing ass. If you can only break in by differentiating yourself that’s your choice and is hardly wrong but look at it for what it is, the easy path. It’s no different than buying your WOW persona off of eBay. Its not wrong but its hardly the honorable thing to do. If you take the “easy path” and are okay with not being respected so be it, at least you are being honest to yourself but if you want respect and want to take the easy path you need to wake up.

“You try telling that to the immature boys that I'm always running into online.If it weren't about sex - then why are the phrases 'bitch', 'whore', 'cunt', 'pussy',”

Yes I am telling you that because its true. You are taking their comments personal and then emotion blinds you to the truth. The truth is these people are simply just bullies. They are in it to make you feel bad in an effort to look better. The second you bite into their bait you are getting what you deserve. If your name is harley07 the bullies that like sport bikes will rip on you and vice versa, if your name is mitsuevo32 the bullies that happen to own stangs will rip on you and vice versa, if you have a high voice the bullies that don’t have high voices will again make fun of you. The problem isn’t that you’re a female it’s that you use your screen name to portray real traits about yourself unlike most men. If you put girl this or that in your name you are doing so to advertise yourself. If you wear a target as a shirt and get shot you shouldn’t bitch.

“Notice ALL those phrases are degrading to women.”

No they are degrading to females who let themselves be degraded by childish non-sense. They are just words, its the context you give them that makes them more. Personally I don’t let comments 12 year olds that have never met me, know nothing about me and will never meet me get under my skin.. I know how perception works and that no matter what I do I will piss someone off and or someone will hate me for what ever view I take in life no matter how much “I” perceive my view as right or wrong. If you take anything in life personal you are missing how human interaction really works or you are to self absorbed to care.

“then why does it MATTER if I have a gender affiliation in my GT”

I wasn’t aware that it did. I know that in the billing info you had to give it (which is legit) but can one look at my xbox live tag and see it? If so then you bring up a good point. I don’t agree with it being listed if it is. Then again its not like ms is good old friendly people loving company.

“the boys don't have the nuts to say that stuff to our face.”

Again you are missing the truth behind this but you are correct in your statement. What you are missing is the fact that this has nothing to do with being a female, you are adding that context yourself. 9 out of 10 of these “kids” would never say any of that crap in public. I hear rich white 12 year olds drop the N bomb in EVERYGAME I play it seems like. Do you think these kids would say that crap in public? I don’t see people walk into Wendy’s calling the clerk a newb fag, getting a burger and then walking away. You are again taking this personal and playing the “it must be cause I am a girl card”. Could it be these people are just a-holes who will use ANY advantage to get a leg up on you? Keep in mind if you are pissed from a pre game brawl you will not be on the top of your game. Shiat talking is a very effective way to get a leg up on the weak minded and egocentric but is no different than using your body to get a leg up. Its all the easy path, its not “wrong” but it is the path of the weak.

“Lol - And you've touched on positive points in my post? Kay kettle.”

Owned me on that one! In all honest I write slllllooooooww as all hell and am very long winded. My first post got edited 3 times and I had to trim out some fat. Originally I did touch on some of you positive points but it got trimmed and some how I didn’t trim that statement. So I am sorry for what I said as I created only negative context and said otherwise

“But as I'm sure you've figured out - I don’t stand by idle.”

Not many people do these days, everyone has an opinion, everyone’s opinion is right, everyone suffers from cognitive dissonance and few people takes time to stand by at idle and think things through. Its easy to just let emotion run the show and be a creature of impulse.

“no problem standing up and defending my views and opinions”

Well yeah that kinda is a problem. Your “views and opinions” are just that “yours”. To defend ones views is to oppress the views of others. If you can speak you should be able to sit idle and listen from time to time.

“Lol - trust me I do - I grew up with two older brothers which is why I've always been more comfortable competing on the same levels as males. “

My statement was more to point out how mean boys are to one another in general.

“I really would like you see what is said when a girl comes into the room.”

Give me some credit, I game quite a bit and have played many games with and against girls. Do girls get flak? Yes but so does everyone else who puts personal info in their name, you on the other hand want a cookie for the flak you get. A buddy of mine is black and his name is dreadlok on live and he gets the n-bomb dropped on him by people in EVERY game even people in our clan would do it. You are not a unique and beautiful snow flake get over yourself.

“Lol - and you said no one was going off on me? See you instantly decide what and who I am and what I stand for and believe in.”

I was hardly going off on you. You like to create context that does not exist. You made statements in your first post that made you look like you thought some of this “girl” behavior was okay. In your second post you show that in “some” areas you do in fact not respect yourself or even some of the idea you are speaking of. You did clarify your point of view which was well done.

“Try taking the blinders off for once and looking at the issue from a DIFFERENT point of view.”

You are so blinded by YOU that you can not see that I am the one looking at it from other perspectives. The difference between us is that I know I, like EVERY human am at some point or another the asshole, the hypocrite, the liar and most of all wrong. All of your problems you have brought up fall back on you and how you CHOOSE to see the world but you just can’t see it because “everyone is against me”.

“I wear pull ups - I'd rather you didn't butter things.”

Rock on, I don’t want you to think I am down on you or that I think you are wrong. Someone has to play the devils advocate and EVERY story has two sides to deny that is to be one sided. You have balls, (a good example of a word that can be sexual but in the end gets meaning from the context in which its used) you fight a good fight and though I am giving you a good amount of shait you seem to be a female rather than a girl. Just please realize your suffering is hardly unique.


Word.
April 13, 2006 7:07:13 PM

That's like--1500 words or something man :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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