A Multiplayer Melee on Politically Sensitive Games

[robwright]

Are some of today's video games crossing the line with their use of offensive racial and ethnic stereotypes, and how they cover sensitive political issues? Or are we just living in a world of over-the-top political correctness? That's the question at hand for editors Aaron McKenna and Rob Wright, who debate yet another hot topic.

 

[davesphone00]

I don't think any game should have to be politically correct or sensitive to any group. If games were to become totally politically correct we'd have a bunch of boring games where everyone works out their problems with kind words. I agree that, if a game is really offensive, few people will play it and no one will take it seriously.

 

[k2000k]

Rob I agree with Aaron on this one. Last thing I want are some tree huggin bleeding hearts trying to make me feel guilty about another thing I feel no reason to feel guilty over. Truly offensive games will never sell, do you think a Holocaust type game would? The only reason people reacted so badly about GTA was because you played a criminal; if it were a police officer slaughtering scum bags Jack Bauyer style, then it wouldn't even have registered at all. I don't see how people can whine and moan about video games being too offensive, when those same people will turn on the television and watch 'reality tv', which manages to only show the most disgusting and pathetic side of humanity. I mean really, does anyone feel good about themselves after watching an episode of MTV's Real World? Temptation Island? Road Rules? Deal or no deal? Wife Swap? Sweet Sixteen? Laguna Beach, and the rest of that filth? At least video games don't try to claim that they represent reality when in fact they are peddling distorted scripted/edited crap.

 

[Kiralon]

Games these days can go to far, thats why you dont buy them or play them, if a game is offensive to you, you have to be pretty stupid to buy it, play it and be offended, However i can understand people of some countries being upset if they are portrayed in an unfavourable light, but thats life. I have played games all my life, from cowboys and indians when i was young (and hey, i didn't go around slaughtering farm hands or indians), to games like Joint Ops later in life (no plans to invade indonesia either). Games do affect people, but people who act upon them aren't all there, but the day we start censoring a game because it might offend something somewhere will be a sad day for the gaming community as a whole, but generally people should use their (un)common sense about something they are writing/filming/programming, but ties to reality usually help a story.

 

[infornography42]

I personally dislike most games that go over the top. I will never lobby or picket or rant about how they should be banned, I just won't play them.

A lot of people love that stuff... I say more power to them.

Live and let live.

 

[tuna2517]

yes... in fact i think that a game about the Holocaust would sell. that game where you have to kill president JFK sold well on the net.

the only reasons we play video games in the first place is to live or feel like we're doing something we would never do in real life.

i would never run my car off a bridge while my friends yell out " YAHHH UNIQUE STUNT". and mybe a little 9 y/o would, but by the time he can get a licence or afforde a car he will have the sense of knowing its stupid.

and i am willing to bet everything i own that atleast 80% of all the whining mothers out there who complain about these games have kids that either, own a copy or play on a regulare basis at a friends house.

iv acctualy seen an article a few years back saying kids who dont play video games lack the creativity and in some cases are less social than the kids who play.

 

[r0x0r]

iv acctualy seen an article a few years back saying kids who dont play video games lack the creativity and in some cases are less social than the kids who play.

Not only that but a few months ago in a mag I read (PCPowerplay, for all the Aussies on the forums) reported that the 2 groups of people least likely to have their brains (can't think of the proper word but it's more than just memory) affected by old age are gamers and those whose are bilingual. Lucky I'm a bilingual gamer then!

I can imagine an old age gamer though. "Sonny, when I was your age I conquered Europe AND vanquished the demons from hell all in one day!"

 

[g3]

Hi all!

I am a Venezuelan citizen, and does not concern the idiot things to me that president Chavez says (if he is that him president can be called) I, and the Venezuelan gamers we will play Mercenaries 2: World in Flames although prohibits the government in our country.

Bye!

 

[ChaoticLusts]

"To the best of my knowledge, the only "group" of people that protested GTA is the Sex Workers' Outreach Project"

Just thought I'd point out the Haitian community (in New York I believe but not certain) filed a lawsuit against GTA for they're portrayal in the game.

 

[choknuti]

iv acctualy seen an article a few years back saying kids who dont play video games lack the creativity and in some cases are less social than the kids who play.

Hmmmmmmmm Makes you wonder what people did for creativity before there were video games ?

 

[M3th0d]

Hi all!

I am a Venezuelan citizen, and does not concern the idiot things to me that president Chavez says (if he is that him president can be called) I, and the Venezuelan gamers we will play Mercenaries 2: World in Flames although prohibits the government in our country.

Bye!

Chavez is fucking nuts plan and simple...
he thinks america is conspiring to invade venezula, LAFF!
hes a dictator, end of discussion. you know what? he will prolly say this game is a training tool for people to invade, over throw or attack venezula!

 

[Woohoo]

First off Rob cry me a river and Aaron I'm glad there are still some people in this world that don't try and make a problem out of everything. I found this site randomly when I was looking through some WoW stuff and reading this post made me sick. Rob first off you say "I'll point out that not everyone pays attention in class, nor are they all as intellectually enlightened as you and I." I fail to see you as very intellectually enlightened if you can't see the simple solution for yourself. I think crying, tree-hugging idiot is a better description. If you honestly think that people being able to use their right to freely express their ideas is wrong then at least offer a solution to this "problem." But naw you can't do that can you? The only way you could possibly stop people is government control if you think about this topic the way you are. But clearly as you stated in your last response, "I'm not suggesting in any way that the government clamp down." So which is it smart guy? Censorship or free speach? I'll help ya out since you fail to offer much enlightenment on a possible solution. Back in the day there was a game called Deer Hunter Avenger for PC. Basically you were a deer with tons of rediculous weapons and you walked through the woods and shot hunters. Now I'm sure that game was probably made by some PETA, animal-humping moron in protest to deer hunting sims, but honestly who cares...that game was fun as hell and I would have played it over a hunting sim anyday! You know what that person did? They didn't go crying to the government, they didn't try and make it a public issue; they retaliated by making a game that was more fun to play. Wow isn't that incredible? Could it be that instead of crying, taking action actually gets things done more effectively? Even if that wasn't the intention of the game, the strategy could be applied to these other games that you feel are so politically incorrect. For instance if the Native Americans didn't want people playing Gun or Custer's Revenge maybe they should have learned how to program and made a game of their own. That seems to make sense doesn't it? Fact of the matter is liberals like to instigate a ton of problems which they have no solution for. In reality if they would just shut up and do something instead of waiting for someone else (ex: the government) to do it for them, they would actually get something done. So anyways "intellectually enlightened" Rob as we say in WoW: pwnt QQ more. K thx.

P.S. Being politically correct is retarded. Let me say first of that I am in noway racist. But the fact is according to one of my highest ideals all men are created EQUAL. If an African American can call another African American a N***a without either of them getting offended, a white guy has every bit as much of a right as them to say it and they shouldn't be offended. Personally I never would say it because I think it's a horrible word, but it's a good, drastic example to prove my point.

 

[Woohoo]

Oh well then sorry for the attacks on Rob then (they were a bit too harsh and i apologize), like I said I just randomly found this and thought those were his actually opinions (If that is how you really think though then they still stand). However, true Republicans are conservative...that means they support smaller governments, not dictatorships which involve a government with total control over people. Liberals (Democrats) are the ones that want to make policy that encroaches on everyone's lives (like a dictatorship) soooooo maybe ya should get your facts straight (Bush is not a true Republican by the way). Also eventually in millions and millions of years from now (I know it's a long, long time but eventually it will get there) the sun is gonna expand and swallow the Earth and completely destroy all the tree hugger's attempts at having an animal to hump everyday when they wake up, and that's assuming something else doesn't wipe it out completely before the sun. Keep in mind now I'm thinkin about the future. Eventually (remember probably not in our life time) if humans want to survive they'll have to have a way to get off Earth and if that involves creating more industry to promote faster technological growth then I'm all for it. Think of the long term benefits...at the moment the Earth isn't going anywhere and there has been plenty of reform as far as the atmoshpere is concerned.

 

[Woohoo]

Haha man judging from your avatar I bet you smoke a lot of pot. You should stick with that...it helps idiots deal with reality. I love when people bring up the P word......btw I'm curious which part you think is propoganda. But if you knew anything you'd know Right=Conservative Left=Liberal obviously you haven't taken too many government classes in college. If you stick to what a rightist is supposed to be then yes they should support a more limited goverment and the exact opposite would be a liberal (leftist) who wants radical reform which requires a bigger government. Granted in the US politians misrepresent their politcial alignment all the time, like Bush who isn't a rightist at all. But the point still is that right=conservative, left=liberal is a fact.

 

[Woohoo]

Hehe wow you are stupid...so very very stupid. Take some government courses dumbass. Like I said keep smokin your pot...it helps ya think you're smarter than you are. Liberals=Reform, Conservatives=less change. I mean come on man think about what the word conservative means. Maybe ya'll just got it backwards over there in Scotland. K thx bye.

Oh and that stuff about the sun...that's just facts, you can sit here and cry about the ozone layer, and trees being cut down all day long. Regardless the point was it's all gonna be gone someday anyways.

 

[Woohoo]

wow lol still hung up on that sun thing eh? it's a dramatic example. i'm glad people like you stay hidden on internet forums....if you were running a country or i'd feel sorry for them. and yes change is good WHEN IT IS REQUIRED but why fix something when it isn't broken? you should only change policy if it is a necesity. but then you have your extreme leftist groups like PETA that would probably like the world to become vegetarians and after that would probably change their name to People for the Ethical Treatment of Plants. regardless it's nice to see that you can only focus on the sun thingy because you know you got destroyed about the conservative/liberal thing. either way nice chattin with ya. you should go smoke a bowl or something to escape reality a bit dont ya think hippie?

 

[lance525]

Thread Hijack!!

Courtesy of Neoconservatives and Socialists.

What happened to the original debate?

Tree hugging?
Poor education systems?

You guys have confused politics with government. Nothing to do with what is essentially a sociology question.

 

[wonkers]

I was tought in grade one that sticks and stones may brake my bones but words will never hurt me. As all Canadian children learn at a young age...mere words, images or general media can't harm you.

Such debates are childish to even be considered.

 

[capnbfg]

Personally, I have always hated political correctness of any kind with a passion, which is complemented by my firm belief in the importance of humor. I believe that people need to be able to joke about absolutely everything. No matter how how vile or disturbing something might be, people need to be in good enough spirits to joke about it. You don't need to be racist to tell a racist joke and enjoy it. Who here has heard a Hellen Keller joke and enjoyed it?

That said, as I was reading this debate I got quite a chuckle out of some of the points that were made by Rob. Regardless of whether they were his opinions, I just couldn't bring myself to take them seriously. The games that were mentioned all just sounded too good to shun. GTA is an awesome franchise, I've played the Custer game, and I downloaded the Columbine game as soon as I saw the link. What can I say? Insensitivity fuels me. I saw The Aristocrats and enjoyed every minute of it. I like to randomly interject comments about space docking because of that movie.

One noteworthy thing about me is that I am very hard to offend, just because I don't grant any kind of merit to what people think of me. Not to say that I don't take anything seriously, just that I know what to take seriously and when. If someone wants to make a game where you play as a black person who robs and kills Irish/Italian mix-breeds, I will absolutely play it. Some would say that I should be horrified by such hatred towards my ethnic heritage, but to be honest, such a game falls in the "not important" category. Does the game adversely affect my life? No. Am I or anyone else going to die because of the game? No. Am I going to burn in Hell for playing the game? If Hell exists, then maybe, but I'll worry about that when the time comes. Until then, does anyone know of a good game that lets me play as Hitler?

 

[qwertz82]

I would just like to point out a quote by Aaron McKenna: "Rob, videogames are not influential." This statement is almost as outrageous as the belief that videogames cause violent behavior in children. Do movies or books influence people? If anything, video games have just as much influence on the players as the books they read and the movies they watch. The only thing that differentiates video games is that they have a narrower audience: teenage and young adult males. Nevertheless, gaming is a huge part of society: videogaming is becoming a billion-dollar industry and millions of players around the world are actively engaged in gaming (mmorpgs). Now, i'm not saying that 20 years from now, the future president of the United States is going to feel like taking over Venezuela simply because he played Mercenaries 2, but the fact is that kids learn from from what they see in games, just as they would in books or movies. I understand that Mercenaries 2 was made simply for entertainment, like a Tom Clancy novel, but when other truly controversial games like GTA: San Andreas or Super Columbine Massacre are exposed to adolescent teens, who knows what the players may think of the content in the game? Whether these games would make them more culturally aware or more culturally ignorant is beyond my knowledge, but it would be completely inane to state that these games will just fly over the players' heads and that the content in the games will have no influence on their views of society.

 

[lance525]

Well said.

I think some feel these games have no influence because they come and go so quickly. But there are definately "themes" that run through some game genre's. Opinion only, but these games do desensitize some (and I want to emphasize SOME) people to violence and hatred. Not that they then go out and commit crimes, but at the very least, they are less appalled by what would be shocking and unimaginable to most.

Many see these for what they are, illusion and fantasy, but there are those out there who have trouble with telling the difference. You need only look at the furor over OBVIOUS fiction in the "DaVinci Code". It was fake, yet you have serious debate over statements the author has repeatedly admitted he made up. Some folks just can't or won't differentiate reality from fantasy.

For the individual who has to make reasoned decisions for themselves regarding what is objectionable and what is not, I say go ahead do what you want. But when a parent has a responsibility to raise a well balanced and clear thinking child who knows right from wrong, the decisions become less clear. And considering we don't legislate who can procreate and and can't (thank goodness), we can't assume all parents are going to make the appropriate decisions for their children.

I'm not a big fan of censorship, but I do believe there has to be control over access to some of this more objectionable (in my opinion, admittedly) material. Right now any kid with decent computer knowledge can download or in most cases just go buy these titles whether his parents are ok with it or not. The current controls don't work.

I don't have the answer, and would like to hear any suggestions. But at this point, I'm leaning toward Mr. Wright's side of this debate.

 

[r0x0r]

As all Canadian children learn at a young age...mere words, images or general media can't harm you.
.

I wish I could agree with you but there are a lot of gullible people out there who believe the crap they are fed. I believe the crap that is fed is called "news".

And the television executives wonder why the younger generation is switching off the television in favour of other forms of entertainment (such as video games. It would be interesting to see how many people purchase a T.V. mainly for gaming purposes).

 

[robwright]

Am I going to burn in Hell for playing the game? If Hell exists, then maybe, but I'll worry about that when the time comes. Until then, does anyone know of a good game that lets me play as Hitler?

CapnBFG, meet Jean-Paul Sartre...
Seriously, I can understand your hatred of political correctness. And I'll admit, I laughed my arse of when Martin Lawrence carjacked Tim Robbins in "Nothing to Lose" and made a Hellen Keller joke. However, I don't find anything remotely humorous about Custer's Revenge. So, serious question, does that make me a hypocrite? If Aaron weren't on a 18-hour flight back from Computex, he'd probably say yes.[/quote]

 

[capnbfg]

I'm not one to say whether that makes you a hypocrite or not, because everyone does have a personal limit as to what they can find amusing. I just think that people in general need to expand that limit, which is I guess how my opinion relates to the topic at hand.

The General Custer game in itself wasn't funny. On a matter of ethics, the premise of the game should be absolutely horrifying, just as you said. What's funny about it though is that someone wasted time making such a worthless game, and I wasted time playing it. I guess I can't really explain why I found it funny. All I can say is that things that I know are not real do not affect me. While playing GTA, I can pick up a hooker, drive my car into the water, and then snipe her head off while she is drowning, and enjoy any second of it, yet when I go out into the real world I'm still the same polite and friendly person that I've always been.

Also, I should probably elaborate on my opinion about political correctness. I have nothing against respect, in fact I think it is very important for people to respect each other. What I despise is when people go out of their way to eliminate any possibility of offending anyone who could ever conceivably catch wind of what they have said. For example, we have the continually evolving descriptive words for disabled persons. Originally we had the word "crippled," then "disabled," then "handicapped," and now it's "people with diverse ranges of abilities." I kid you not, that is the phrase that is used now, as well as "differently-abled persons." I participated in a problem solving course last fall at my university where we worked on making the campus more accessible, so that's why I know about the transition of these politically correct phrases.

So, what bugs me is not being respectful, but doing so to the point that it gets completely rediculous. It makes much more sense for everyone to just take things lightly and not be offended at the drop of a hat. We shouldn't need to continually update how we refer to categories of people, nor should we have to worry about what content is in games. Some people like me already don't care, and I think that more people need to learn to be that way.

I have to grant to your side of the argument that my opinion represents an ideal case and the real world is not so perfect. People do get offended by things. My response to them is "too bad, look the other way." I won't impose myself on them as long as they don't try to limit my fun. Kids do get ahold of games that their parents don't like. My response is that the parents have failed to do their job on several levels. First, they failed by being naive about the abilities of kids to get what they want. Second, they failed because instead of teaching their kids about life, they tried to shelter them. Third, they failed by being closed-minded and uptight about something that is not real.

We can put all the warning labels and boycotts that we want on games or any other kind of media, but what the problem always falls back on is an issue of family values. Parents need to teach their kids right from wrong, real from virtual, and harmless from offensive. If this has been accomplished, kids can be exposed to nearly anything and not have negative results. I've been exposed to violent entertainment all my life. I used to play River Raid when I was 4, Eye of the Beholder II: Legend of Darkmoon in 3rd grade, Wolfenstein and DOOM in 5th grade, Duke Nukem in 6th grade, and so on. My favorite movie ever since about third grade has been Commando (I liked it then because it had good violence, now I like it just because it's so corny and lame). Where were my parents through all of this? They were with me. I don't remember ever watching a movie without my parents knowledge until about 11th grade, nor did they ever tell me I couldn't watch something. As for the games, my dad played them with me. We still do Call of Duty deathmatches as a family whenever I'm home from college for vacation. I haven't even mentioned yet the fact that I've been shooting guns, real fireams, for as long as I can remember (since about 3 I guess). I grew up with violence all around me and I loved it. And after all this, I somehow am still a stable and respectful individual.

As for how to spread the concepts of openness and levity....I'm stumped. I don't know how to convince people to think logically when they are so absorbed by illogic. A worldwide decrease in religion and increased focus on intuitive ethics would probably help immensely, but again, how do you make such a transition? I wish I knew....

 

[sobank]

i like to add that i want to kick those parents a$$es who dont have brain to check the ratings of the game. if your child ended up with a GTA in his ps, its not his fault. You letting him play and not checking the rating is the fault. so check the freaking ratings before blaming games. Its like renting a porno for the kid and then blaming porno industry for making adult entertainment. so to hell with you all parents who dont take responsibility for their own actions or lack of it.