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Charging vs. non-charging USB cable for VX6000

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Anonymous
April 22, 2004 8:54:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

With a USB cable and BitPim I can transfer my Palm or Outlook Address Book
to my LG VX6000 right? Address book transfers go both ways? I see a lot of
talk about backing up the phone address book, but not that much about going
the opposite direction loading a PC's address book onto the phone.

One more question... I was hoping to coax out some trustworthy information
on charging vs. non-charging cables.. I'm seeing some conflicting info and
was looking for some cable purchasing advice.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=... -
this guy's auction for his non-charging OEM USB cable claims the charging
ones are not a good thing for the health of your phone.

http://www.howardforums.com/archive/topic/313695-1.html - here forum posters
get a little snippy back and forth about the danger of a charging cable.

In this thread, http://www.howardforums.com/archive/topic/248952-1.html we
have Robert Valentine, the owner of RPI Wireless, writing on behalf of his
product. To see the owner posting to newsgroups makes me more than just a
little concerned about his product.

Are all these cables just reverse engineered versions of this one?
http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/store/accessorydetai...

That earlier eBay ad warns that "some other sellers out there are selling
illegal aftermarket charging cables or cables with an obvious "box" on them
claiming to be similar to this or OEM."
Is this guy referring to the packaging (being non OEM?) or the square brick
in the middle of the cable. Do they all have that brick in the cable? Seems
like the brick would only be necessary for the charging cables.

Thanks for any wisdom you can share,
-Ethan

--
To e-mail me, replace "_nospamtoday_" with the "@" symbol when replying to
my address.
Anonymous
April 23, 2004 1:31:47 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

"hupjack" <hupjack_nospamtoday_yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:0oidna56yKq6xhXdRVn-hQ@comcast.com
>
> One more question... I was hoping to coax out some trustworthy
> information
> on charging vs. non-charging cables.. I'm seeing some conflicting
> info and
> was looking for some cable purchasing advice.
>
>
> Thanks for any wisdom you can share,
> -Ethan

It depends on what you are gonna use the phone for. IE, I use one for an
alarm, and I wanted it to stay online even if the AC power goes off (up to
the talk time on the battery), so it calls and stays connected 24/7. While
the phone can be charged while making a call, not a single one of those will
charge the phone at a greater rate than the phone uses making a call. In my
case, since the phone was on and calling out 24/7, it was more of how long
can the phone "charge" (I call it discharge since it loses ground) before
the battery was totally discharged since it was calling while charging. If
you aren't making calls, then why not use the ac charger and cable at the
same time? The AC charger puts out a lot more recharging power than any
cable does, and the application of a file (to file down the rubber/plastic
on the plugs) allows both a non-powered cable and charger to be plugged in
at the same time. That's what I ended up doing (allowed the AC charger and
non charging USB cable to both be plugged in at the same time). Since I
already had the file in my toolbox, it ended up being free, since I could
use what I already had, instead of buying new.

Turns out I ended up doing the same thing with Mobile Office. It allows the
phone to charge while connected and online when I am surfing (usually longer
than the talk time on the battery), result? no more unexpected disconnects
from the battery dying. Real handy when you want to start a long download
and go out to dinner.
Anonymous
April 23, 2004 1:49:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

hupjack wrote:
> In this thread, http://www.howardforums.com/archive/topic/248952-1.html we
> have Robert Valentine, the owner of RPI Wireless, writing on behalf of his
> product. To see the owner posting to newsgroups makes me more than just a
> little concerned about his product.

It should have the opposite effect. It means they are actually listening
to their (potential) customers. See http://www.cluetrain.com for
why this is a good thing.

> Are all these cables just reverse engineered versions of this one?
> http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/store/accessorydetai...

He stated how the RPI one was done based on all the different
chargers etc in one of the links.

You have the owner of the company, his guarantee, and the information
on how they did it. Can't ask for much more than that!

Roger
Related resources
Anonymous
April 23, 2004 8:07:35 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On 4/22/04 5:54 PM, in article 0oidna56yKq6xhXdRVn-hQ@comcast.com, "hupjack"
<hupjack_nospamtoday_yahoo.com> wrote:

> With a USB cable and BitPim I can transfer my Palm or Outlook Address Book
> to my LG VX6000 right? Address book transfers go both ways? I see a lot of
> talk about backing up the phone address book, but not that much about going
> the opposite direction loading a PC's address book onto the phone.

You'll need other software to transfer your Outlook's address book to your
phone (not sure about Palm's address book). BitPim allows you to type in
addresses on your PC and then transfer them to your phone which is a lot
easier than typing them in on the phones keypad. But it wasn't designed to
sync the phone with Outlook. And as you mentioned, it also let's you
copy/backup your phone's address book to your PC.

I use Futuredial's Snapsync to sync my Outlook address book with my phone.
I've only done it once, and worked ok, but I can't get it communicating
again right now. I only use it because I bought it a while back on a "free
after rebate" deal at CompUSA. But it doesn't sync my Outlook calendar. I'm
looking for other software to do that. Maybe someone else can recommend some
packages.
>
> One more question... I was hoping to coax out some trustworthy information
> on charging vs. non-charging cables.. I'm seeing some conflicting info and
> was looking for some cable purchasing advice.
>
The howard forums thread you referenced has a good description of the 3
types of cables in the original question. The VX6000 apparently can
communicate via the old RS232 protocol or via the USB 1.1
protocol--selectable through the menus (Menu-9-6-2). From what I've heard, I
would recommend getting a straight USB cable since, according to Roger Binns
(the author of BitPim), this phone supports it properly, unlike the 4400.

I purchased a Futuredial cable by ordering it at Radio Shack. I thought it
was a straight USB cable but it turns out to be a USB/RS232 cable with the
little converter box. I plan to return it and probably buy the straight USB
cable sold on eBay for $15.99 plus shipping ($23 total is the cheapest I've
seen for a straight USB cable for this phone. Anyone know of one cheaper?)

From my searching on eBay over the last month I see 3 people repeatedly
selling straight USB cables (one might be the USB/charging cable you
reference) and tons of USB/RS232 cables sold by others. I have all kinds of
problems getting mine to communicate via BitPim and Snapsync with this cable
and my feeling is that I never have problems when using other USB deviceds
compared to using the old RS232 and all its settings that have to be set
(com port, speed, etc.). So, I'm guessing a real USB cable will hopefully
make this work a lot more reliably.

My question is, why are the straight USB cables for the VX6000 so expensive
compared to similar cables for other phones?? Even from vendors on eBay
selling similar cables for two different phones. The Sanyo or Samsung USB
cables go for $6 before shipping while this LG cable is $16 to $25 before
shipping. What's up with that?? I have my address books synced so after
returning my Radio Shack cable, I may just wait for prices to drop.

> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=...
> d=1 -
> this guy's auction for his non-charging OEM USB cable claims the charging
> ones are not a good thing for the health of your phone.
>
> http://www.howardforums.com/archive/topic/313695-1.html - here forum posters
> get a little snippy back and forth about the danger of a charging cable.
>
> In this thread, http://www.howardforums.com/archive/topic/248952-1.html we
> have Robert Valentine, the owner of RPI Wireless, writing on behalf of his
> product. To see the owner posting to newsgroups makes me more than just a
> little concerned about his product.
>
> Are all these cables just reverse engineered versions of this one?
> http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/store/accessorydetai...
> ryMart&accessoryId=13993
>
> That earlier eBay ad warns that "some other sellers out there are selling
> illegal aftermarket charging cables or cables with an obvious "box" on them
> claiming to be similar to this or OEM."
> Is this guy referring to the packaging (being non OEM?) or the square brick
> in the middle of the cable. Do they all have that brick in the cable? Seems
> like the brick would only be necessary for the charging cables.

The little brick is also on the USB/RS232 cables.
>
> Thanks for any wisdom you can share,
> -Ethan
Anonymous
April 23, 2004 8:07:36 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Steve Johnson wrote:
> You'll need other software to transfer your Outlook's address book to your
> phone (not sure about Palm's address book).

BitPim will accept CSV exports from Outlook, Palm, Mozilla etc.

> But it wasn't designed to sync the phone with Outlook.

It most certainly is designed to do syncing with Outlook and other
programs. The code just hasn't been written yet (which is why
the version number is less than 1.0).

Of course you and anyone else is welcome to participate in the
development process :-)

> From what I've heard, I
> would recommend getting a straight USB cable since, according to Roger Binns
> (the author of BitPim), this phone supports it properly, unlike the 4400.

Yes, if you can get a pure USB cable for any of the phones (with the exception
of the VX4400) then do so. They are way more reliable and easier to
deal with in the code.

> and tons of USB/RS232 cables sold by others. I have all kinds of
> problems getting mine to communicate via BitPim and Snapsync with this cable
> and my feeling is that I never have problems when using other USB deviceds
> compared to using the old RS232

The problem with the RS232 ones is that the phone may be in one of several
modes (diagnostic, AT command) and at one of several speeds (38400, 19200,
115200, 230400). When BitPim wants to do something, it starts by
trying to detect if the phone is already in the right mode at the
current speed. If it doesn't get a response it tries other speeds
and then tries the mode switching commands at various speeds, and
then goes back to verifying the mode has in fact changed.

(Put like that it seems to be a miracle it works at all :-)

> My question is, why are the straight USB cables for the VX6000 so expensive
> compared to similar cables for other phones??

I don't know the answer to that. I do know that the VX6000 and the
Audiovox CDM8900 share the same circuit board and use the same
cable, and that the phone/board is actually designed by Curitel
in Korea. That means that the cable is unique to those two phones.
I suspect that means less customers to spread the costs over
as compared to other cables.

Roger
Anonymous
April 23, 2004 2:38:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

> You have the owner of the company, his guarantee, and the information
> on how they did it. Can't ask for much more than that!

I would like to believe the word of Robert Valentine, but all I see when I
read a post from a man that stands to profit from the sale of an item he's
writing about, is a whole lot of bias. Not having any reason to assume
otherwise, I have to think he'd write anything to sell product and make
money.

I certainly am grateful for the clarification on the address book synching
ability. More importantly, I'd like some clarification on the charging vs.
non-charging USB cables. Looking at the links I posted in the first note,
we see a person selling a non-charging cable with a fair amount of time
spent in his advertisement badmouthing charging cables. We also have
discussion among other enthusiasts arguing whether the charging cables are
safe.

Can we get some informed discussion her and put this issue to rest? Are the
charging cables safe? Likely to toast your battery early? What of that
discussion I linked to about finite number of charging cycles? Are there
really cables sold by, endorsed by, certified by LG, or was that eBay ad I
linked to just a bunch of hot air talking about LG approved OEM... etc
..etc...

Thanks ya'all,
-Ethan
Anonymous
April 23, 2004 7:01:33 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On 4/23/04 12:33 AM, in article vupml1-h5c.ln1@home.rogerbinns.com, "Roger
Binns" <rogerb@rogerbinns.com> wrote:

> Steve Johnson wrote:
>> You'll need other software to transfer your Outlook's address book to your
>> phone (not sure about Palm's address book).
>
> BitPim will accept CSV exports from Outlook, Palm, Mozilla etc.

Roger, thanks for adding the CSV import information. I realized I left that
out after posting that last night, but figured you, or someone else, would
chime in with that.

>> But it wasn't designed to sync the phone with Outlook.
>
> It most certainly is designed to do syncing with Outlook and other
> programs. The code just hasn't been written yet (which is why
> the version number is less than 1.0).
>
> Of course you and anyone else is welcome to participate in the
> development process :-)

And glad to hear that Bitpim will include direct syncing with Outlook in
future versions.

>> From what I've heard, I
>> would recommend getting a straight USB cable since, according to Roger Binns
>> (the author of BitPim), this phone supports it properly, unlike the 4400.
>
> Yes, if you can get a pure USB cable for any of the phones (with the exception
> of the VX4400) then do so. They are way more reliable and easier to
> deal with in the code.
>
>> and tons of USB/RS232 cables sold by others. I have all kinds of
>> problems getting mine to communicate via BitPim and Snapsync with this cable
>> and my feeling is that I never have problems when using other USB devices
>> compared to using the old RS232
>
> The problem with the RS232 ones is that the phone may be in one of several
> modes (diagnostic, AT command) and at one of several speeds (38400, 19200,
> 115200, 230400). When BitPim wants to do something, it starts by
> trying to detect if the phone is already in the right mode at the
> current speed. If it doesn't get a response it tries other speeds
> and then tries the mode switching commands at various speeds, and
> then goes back to verifying the mode has in fact changed.
>
> (Put like that it seems to be a miracle it works at all :-)

Miracle, how true. Thanks for explaining this.

>> My question is, why are the straight USB cables for the VX6000 so expensive
>> compared to similar cables for other phones??
>
> I don't know the answer to that. I do know that the VX6000 and the
> Audiovox CDM8900 share the same circuit board and use the same
> cable, and that the phone/board is actually designed by Curitel
> in Korea. That means that the cable is unique to those two phones.
> I suspect that means less customers to spread the costs over
> as compared to other cables.
>
> Roger
>
>
Anonymous
April 24, 2004 3:09:14 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

hupjack wrote:
> ability. More importantly, I'd like some clarification on the charging vs.
> non-charging USB cables.

Other than real OEM cables, the only guarantees you get are from
the vendors, and they wouldn't sell them if they didn't give some
sort of guarantee.

So if you want to be ultra-paranoid, only buy stuff from the cell
phone vendor and make sure there is nothing adverse in the small
print.

For my personal VX4400 I use a non-charging cable. I did have a
charging cable for a while but it didn't work right, and that
was noticable in how the phone behaved (like claiming it was
fully charged when it wasn't).

I have been loaned both a LG VX6000 and an Audiovox CDM8900 by
RPI Wireless. That also includes two identical cables. I
have the phones randomly connected to my Windows and Linux boxes,
sometimes directly and sometimes via USB hubs. And sometimes
they just lie on my desk not connected to anything.

I have not seen any electrical issues (or any others for that
matter). I am not an electrical engineer and cannot vouch
that nothing bad is going on, but my experience is fine.

Roger
Anonymous
April 24, 2004 4:52:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

sounds like I'm going to be hard pressed to get an overwhelming consensus of
scientific data one way or another as to if a charging USB cable is a
healthy thing for my phone. I don't feel I'm being super paranoid.. I
just don't want to wear out my battery prematurely... This is my first
phone. I don't have a laptop, but if I ever get one I'd be tickled by the
ability to use my phone as a free WiFi ISP. Since I'm currently not much of
a road warrior, the charging cable doesn't do me much good, but I don't mind
having one for future fun and games if they aren't detrimental to battery
lifespan.

I'm assuming the main benefit of the charging cable is keeping the cell
phone juiced from your laptop while the laptop is plugged into AC. And you
can also get more internet access time if you're charging up your phone at
the same time as your using it for WiFi.

-Ethan
Anonymous
April 24, 2004 6:34:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

"hupjack" <hupjack_nospamtoday_yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:__2dnQVE9p7MWBfdRVn-sQ@comcast.com
> sounds like I'm going to be hard pressed to get an overwhelming
> consensus of scientific data one way or another as to if a charging
> USB cable is a healthy thing for my phone. I don't feel I'm being
> super paranoid.. I just don't want to wear out my battery
> prematurely... This is my first phone. I don't have a laptop, but if
> I ever get one I'd be tickled by the ability to use my phone as a
> free WiFi ISP. Since I'm currently not much of a road warrior, the
> charging cable doesn't do me much good, but I don't mind having one
> for future fun and games if they aren't detrimental to battery
> lifespan.
>
> I'm assuming the main benefit of the charging cable is keeping the
> cell phone juiced from your laptop while the laptop is plugged into
> AC. And you can also get more internet access time if you're
> charging up your phone at the same time as your using it for WiFi.
>
> -Ethan

Not always. Never "assume" anything. There are some laptops and hubs that
don't have power pass alongs on the USB ports, and won't allow you to charge
while using.
Anonymous
April 25, 2004 2:43:27 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 21:31:47 -0700, "Peter Pan"
<Marcs1102NOSPAM@Hotmail.com> chose to add this to the great equation of
life, the universe, and everything:

>"hupjack" <hupjack_nospamtoday_yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:0oidna56yKq6xhXdRVn-hQ@comcast.com
>>
>> One more question... I was hoping to coax out some trustworthy
>> information
>> on charging vs. non-charging cables.. I'm seeing some conflicting
>> info and
>> was looking for some cable purchasing advice.
>
>It depends on what you are gonna use the phone for. IE, I use one for an
>alarm, and I wanted it to stay online even if the AC power goes off (up to
>the talk time on the battery), so it calls and stays connected 24/7. While
>the phone can be charged while making a call, not a single one of those will
>charge the phone at a greater rate than the phone uses making a call. In my
>case, since the phone was on and calling out 24/7, it was more of how long
>can the phone "charge" (I call it discharge since it loses ground) before
>the battery was totally discharged since it was calling while charging. If
>you aren't making calls, then why not use the ac charger and cable at the
>same time?

I have the RPI cable for my 4400 and I find that it does, in fact, charge
the phone even while online. The phone's display says "charging finished"
the entire time it's plugged in, but when I unplug it again, the battery
indicator always shows a higher charge level than before, even if I have it
online the entire time (and I usually start a continuous ping going so the
connection doesn't drop).

At the time I ordered the cable, RPI was in the middle of a recall of some
bad cables (which apparently caused them to take a few extra days to ship
mine), but they seemed to be truly concerned about their customers and
their reputation. It works just fine for me.

I already had the Futuredial USB/232 cable, and on the 4400 you can use it
while the phone sits in the charging cradle, but A: there were some issues
with Bitpim (see below) that are non-existent with the USB cable; and B: I
wanted to be able to use it online in the car (no, not while driving)
connected to my laptop (I bought an inverter to power the laptop) without
using up the battery.

Bitpim issues with the USB/232 cable:

-- the phone always shuts off its comm port when you finish using Bitpim,
so you have to go into the menu and reset it

-- despite Roger's claims, it will not work with the phone set to 230400,
so you have to go into the menu to change the port speed for Bitpim vs.
data use (I tried using it for data set to 115200, but that really does
affect the data burst speed)

(The behavior I observe is that with the phone set to 230400, Bitpim cycles
through various speeds from 115200 down but can't find it; if I change the
phone to 115200, Bitpim cycles though the speeds and eventually connects at
38400, so the straight USB cable is a LOT faster. (I tried an early test
version of Bitpim 0.7, but it wouldn't connect to the phone at all so I
reverted back to 0.62.))

None of these problems with Bitpim have shown up using the straight USB
cable from RPI. Bitpim also doesn't give a damn which USB port I connect
to; I can even plug it into a USB expansion hub and Bitpim still finds it
automatically. As a modem, OTOH, well, it's just a good idea to set it up
for one particular USB port on your computer and always use that same port.

--
David Streeter, "an internet god" -- Dave Barry
http://home.att.net/~dwstreeter
Remove the naughty bit from my address to reply
Expect a train on ANY track at ANY time.
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"I really don't know, Abbey, the day hasn't started yet." - President Jed
Bartlet
Anonymous
April 28, 2004 7:51:02 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 23:09:14 -0700, "Roger Binns" <rogerb@rogerbinns.com>
chose to add this to the great equation of life, the universe, and
everything:

>For my personal VX4400 I use a non-charging cable. I did have a
>charging cable for a while but it didn't work right, and that
>was noticable in how the phone behaved (like claiming it was
>fully charged when it wasn't).

Are you suggesting that I am damaging my phone or battery by using/charging
it in that condition?

--
David Streeter, "an internet god" -- Dave Barry
http://home.att.net/~dwstreeter
Remove the naughty bit from my address to reply
Expect a train on ANY track at ANY time.
"Also, you've got twins in there. You're basically a minivan. How are you
fitting into a seat?" - Toby Ziegler
<looking around> "Uh-uh! I saw him first, girls." - Andrea Wyatt (the
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!