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Tropos Mesh Wireless at So. Calif. Wireless User Group Mee..

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July 22, 2004 11:54:08 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Cyrus Behroozi, the Chief Scientist of Tropos Networks
(http://www.troposnetworks.com) will be presenting the Tropos wireless mesh
technology at the next SOCALWUG meeting tonight, Thursday 7/22/04 at 7pm
(Pacific).

Tropos' products transform Wi-Fi into a scalable, reliable infrastructure by
layering intelligence on top of Wi-Fi to create a new class of products,
Wi-Fi cells. Wi-Fi cells self-organize and, using wireless backhaul, forward
data to each other along the optimal path to a wired network connection.
Tropos' system uniquely enables economical, metro-scale Wi-Fi by eliminating
the need for each Wi-Fi node to have a wired connection.

Tropos has been in recent news:

San Mateo County Beefs Up Security For Peterson Trial:
http://www.troposnetworks.com/company/releases/2004_05_...

Tropos: Supplier of Metro Wi-Fi:
http://www.wi-fiplanet.com/news/article.php/2210711

Tropos Unhooks New Orleans:
http://www.unstrung.com/document.asp?doc_id=51296


Who should attend?

Wireless ISPs
Wireless technicians and engineers
Business people interested in wireless
People working in the wireless community
Wireless Security professionals
People new to wireless
People interested in meeting others involved in the wireless community
Buyers of wireless technology products and services
Those interested in lively technical discussions ranging from beginner to
expert
People new to wireless

Meeting Cost: Free!


Agenda (times are approximate):

7:00pm Mixing - business/friend contacts
7:10pm Logon> Introductions to the group and key members
7:15pm Announcements & News Items
7:20pm General Q&A
7:30pm Presentation - Cyrus Behroozi, Tropos
8:40pm Mixing - break off into groups of discussions
9:00pm Logoff>


When:

Every Fourth Thursday
7:00pm to 9:00pm (Pacific)
Thursday 07/22/04 at 7pm
Meeting video streamed live: http://www.socalwug.org




Where:

Pasadena IHOP Restaurant (rear meeting room)
3521 E. Foothill Blvd
Pasadena, CA 91107
Location: http://ihop.know-where.com/ihop/cgi/site?00006
Wireless SSID: www.socalwug.org
GPS: N 34 09.032 - W 118 04.645


*NOW* Take the Train!

MTA Gold Line "Sierra Madre Villa" station Visit the MTA site for times and
stations:
http://www.mta.net/riding_metro/metro_rail/gold_line/de...
Click this MapQuest link for a walking map from the SMV station:
http://tinyurl.com/lhum

Note: Please come hungry and support our host. Food served during meeting.
Separate checks.


Please redistribute this notice.


Frank Keeney
http://www.wlanparts.com


----------------------------------
Co-Founder, Southern California Wireless User Group:
http://www.socalwug.org


IM: Yahoo: wlanparts, AIM: wlanparts, MSN: frank at pasadena.net
VOIP: Skype: wlanparts, FWD: 289372

---------------------------
List management: http://www.pasadena.net/list.html
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
July 22, 2004 2:59:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 07:54:08 -0700, "Frank" <la@pasadena.net> wrote:

>Cyrus Behroozi, the Chief Scientist of Tropos Networks
>(http://www.troposnetworks.com) will be presenting the Tropos wireless mesh
>technology at the next SOCALWUG meeting tonight, Thursday 7/22/04 at 7pm
>(Pacific).

I can't attend but you might ask them:

1. Why does their outoor data sheet advertise an illegal antenna
gain?
http://www.troposnetworks.com/pdf/5110_datasheet.pdf
1 watt is +30dBm, not +29dBm and the maximum omni gain allowed is
+6dBi, not 7.4dBi.

2. Why are all the outdoor mesh network poletops in their network
running maximum legal power? Isn't that overkill and no better than
jamming? Is that why the city of Milpitas wanted lower power units?
Or was it complaints from other wireless users.

3. How's the latency with only one radio in each poletop? Store and
forward is rather gross and inefficient as compared to multi-radio
networks by SkyPilot and BelAir. Sending the same packet through the
air over and over from node to node is not my idea of airtime
efficiency?

4. How does their "intelligent routeing algorithm" or "layer 3 NOS
routing intelligce" deal with broacast packets, topography that
requires a switchback, and recover from power failures?

Anyway, have a nice meeting.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558
July 22, 2004 3:29:42 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Jeff,

You can watch the meeting in streaming video see http://www.socalwug.org.
And ask the questions via IM or IRC:

AOL IM = socalwug -or- wlanparts
MSN IM = mox at transstellar.com -or- frank at pasadena.net
Yahoo IM = mikeoutmesguine -or- wlanparts
Skype = mikeoutmesguine -or- wlanparts
Internet Relay Chat - IRC

Server: irc.linux.com
Channel: #wireless

I'll ask your questions if you cannot watch it. BTW, we have many questions
like your's.

Frank


"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote in message
news:edvvf0pgd923c94rp5snt49kufamjf8tl8@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 07:54:08 -0700, "Frank" <la@pasadena.net> wrote:
>
> >Cyrus Behroozi, the Chief Scientist of Tropos Networks
> >(http://www.troposnetworks.com) will be presenting the Tropos wireless
mesh
> >technology at the next SOCALWUG meeting tonight, Thursday 7/22/04 at 7pm
> >(Pacific).
>
> I can't attend but you might ask them:
>
> 1. Why does their outoor data sheet advertise an illegal antenna
> gain?
> http://www.troposnetworks.com/pdf/5110_datasheet.pdf
> 1 watt is +30dBm, not +29dBm and the maximum omni gain allowed is
> +6dBi, not 7.4dBi.
>
> 2. Why are all the outdoor mesh network poletops in their network
> running maximum legal power? Isn't that overkill and no better than
> jamming? Is that why the city of Milpitas wanted lower power units?
> Or was it complaints from other wireless users.
>
> 3. How's the latency with only one radio in each poletop? Store and
> forward is rather gross and inefficient as compared to multi-radio
> networks by SkyPilot and BelAir. Sending the same packet through the
> air over and over from node to node is not my idea of airtime
> efficiency?
>
> 4. How does their "intelligent routeing algorithm" or "layer 3 NOS
> routing intelligce" deal with broacast packets, topography that
> requires a switchback, and recover from power failures?
>
> Anyway, have a nice meeting.
>
>
Related resources
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Anonymous
a b F Wireless
July 23, 2004 5:13:17 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 11:29:42 -0700, "Frank" <la@pasadena.net> wrote:

>You can watch the meeting in streaming video see http://www.socalwug.org.
>And ask the questions via IM or IRC:

Thanks. I wanna see them squirm. In case it's not obvious, I
consider store and forward mesh networks to be no better than an
abomination. I would like to see such networks banned as a gross and
inefficient waste of air time and be considered no better than an
unintentional jammer.


--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831.336.2558 voice http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
# jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
# 831.421.6491 digital_pager jeffl@cruzio.com AE6KS
July 23, 2004 5:13:18 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Video is streaming now http://www.socalwug.org

Stream is up and down so retry.

Frank


"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote in message
news:06p0g0t8q44cqssbcvrirmtnf036ofd5p1@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 11:29:42 -0700, "Frank" <la@pasadena.net> wrote:
>
> >You can watch the meeting in streaming video see http://www.socalwug.org.
> >And ask the questions via IM or IRC:
>
> Thanks. I wanna see them squirm. In case it's not obvious, I
> consider store and forward mesh networks to be no better than an
> abomination. I would like to see such networks banned as a gross and
> inefficient waste of air time and be considered no better than an
> unintentional jammer.
>
>
> --
> # Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
> # 831.336.2558 voice http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> # jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
> # 831.421.6491 digital_pager jeffl@cruzio.com AE6KS
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
July 23, 2004 8:20:55 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 20:02:29 -0700, "Frank" <la@pasadena.net> wrote:

>Video is streaming now http://www.socalwug.org
>Stream is up and down so retry.

Well, it was more up than down. I was on from 8PM to 9:10PM and only
had to reconnect about 20 times. If you're using wireless for the
backhaul, it has a problem.

There were a few other problems. The talk was generally interesting
but I had to fight to hear anything. The speaker would say 5 words,
say "ahhh", 5 more words, another "ahhh", and then trail off in volume
at the end of every sentence. I could easily tell when he was
confident about his answers as the number of "ahhh's" were greatly
reduced. I could barely hear the questions from the audience. The
speaker did not repeat any of the questions. You might wanna buy a
fluorescent color correction filter for the video camera so everything
doesn't look green and perhaps some wireless microphones.

I was unimpressed with the speakers dismissal of Metricom's routeing
protocol as being "rather simple" (or something like that) because it
was not a true mesh network. He knows not of what he speaks. Let me
know when they re-discover Metricom's (patented) geographic routeing
system. There was probably more that I could complain about, but I
couldn't hear anything clearly or long enough to frame a suitable
denunciation.

Say hello to Jack Unger from me whom I noticed making a grab for the
free goodies at the end of the presentation.


--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831.336.2558 voice http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
# jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
# 831.421.6491 digital_pager jeffl@cruzio.com AE6KS
July 23, 2004 8:20:56 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Sound is not so good. We know.

The video problem was with the streaming server. Sorry about that.

The speaker is one of their engineers, not a sales droid. Information was
good. I'm not a fan of this type of mesh nor was I impressed by the product
(except for the outdoor enclosure). I've been working with Strix
(http://www.wlanparts.com/category/strix_wireless/) with good success.
Radios that use multiple frequencies perform much better.

I'll be encoding the video and have it available at a reliable server in
about a week.

Thanks for watching.

Seems, like everyone knows Jack Unger. He's one of our regulars.

Frank



"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote in message
news:nm31g0t32po9vq5ea4nkca1btcr0ji3nv1@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 20:02:29 -0700, "Frank" <la@pasadena.net> wrote:
>
> >Video is streaming now http://www.socalwug.org
> >Stream is up and down so retry.
>
> Well, it was more up than down. I was on from 8PM to 9:10PM and only
> had to reconnect about 20 times. If you're using wireless for the
> backhaul, it has a problem.
>
> There were a few other problems. The talk was generally interesting
> but I had to fight to hear anything. The speaker would say 5 words,
> say "ahhh", 5 more words, another "ahhh", and then trail off in volume
> at the end of every sentence. I could easily tell when he was
> confident about his answers as the number of "ahhh's" were greatly
> reduced. I could barely hear the questions from the audience. The
> speaker did not repeat any of the questions. You might wanna buy a
> fluorescent color correction filter for the video camera so everything
> doesn't look green and perhaps some wireless microphones.
>
> I was unimpressed with the speakers dismissal of Metricom's routeing
> protocol as being "rather simple" (or something like that) because it
> was not a true mesh network. He knows not of what he speaks. Let me
> know when they re-discover Metricom's (patented) geographic routeing
> system. There was probably more that I could complain about, but I
> couldn't hear anything clearly or long enough to frame a suitable
> denunciation.
>
> Say hello to Jack Unger from me whom I noticed making a grab for the
> free goodies at the end of the presentation.
>
>
> --
> # Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
> # 831.336.2558 voice http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> # jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
> # 831.421.6491 digital_pager jeffl@cruzio.com AE6KS
!