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MMR: Can You Be a True Gamer If You're On Drugs?

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September 5, 2006 12:30:11 PM

Last week's story "Gaming's New Drug Culture" sparked a firestorm of criticism and spirited feedback from readers. But a central question remains: is it acceptable behavior for gamers to use drugs, either for simple enjoyment or to prolong and enhance their play? Readers weigh in on the controversial article and the sensitive subject.

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September 5, 2006 1:28:33 PM

Is this question for real?

I am going to answer this with a question… Is it ok for an athlete running in the Olympics to take performance enhancing drugs or illegal drugs before participating in an event? You could use this question in the general sense is it ok to take drugs, no.

It all depends in what sense you are asking this question. Is it ok to take drugs while playing in your house? No, but who cares. Some stoned person on the other side of the world fragging people is hardly doing it to game harder they are just taking drugs to recreate to enjoy them self in there own way. Even if they are taking drugs to make them perform better or last in the game for longer, as long as it is not in a competitive game then again who cares?

The thing is when substances are used in gaming tournaments and competitions, this is when it becomes wrong in all ways and people do care. Because if you believe what Fatality says that a gaming pro is an athlete in there own right, then it is against the rules and the organizers should introduce drug screening on said pro gamers.

The question is though are illegal drugs ok to take, according to the law that is a big NO in all cases weather it be to enjoy a night out more or game better than you normally do.

[EDIT]

On reading further, it’s like it is a shock when you say gamers take drugs. The fact is that people take drugs, not gamers. Horse riders take drugs, businessmen take drugs, racecar drivers take drugs, housewives take drugs, and school kids take drugs, hell I bet even space men take drugs.

You can’t make this in to a big story about people taking drugs, it happens in every sport or activity out there. It happens in war it happens in gang wars it happens in every thing in this world and your making it out that it is a big thing that it happens in gaming. It’s not it’s a fact of life, while people are still taking drugs there will be someone in everything taking drugs.

I invite you all to come to Edinburgh and walk down Nidry, if you don’t get stabbed first you will have a good time spotting junkies that don’t game.
September 5, 2006 1:47:38 PM

Interestingly the answer to this question isn’t as clear cut as one might think. For example, look at the muscle building community, they have contests, shows, get endorsements, so on... but it is pretty much known and accepted that they all take steroids. There’s no way they could get that big if they didn’t.

But most "respectable" sports do not allow drugs to be used by the players; gaming seems like a sport that should adopt this stance. Steroids may have bad side effects, but the kind of drugs that help that could help professional gamers stay up (and sharp) for several days at a time are potentially fatal and highly addictive. I speak of speed and coke here, not the mostly harmless caffeine.

As to whether the home gamer should be prohibited from using drugs… well technically they already are. But to answer the question anyways; people like to have fun. Some people like to hunt. Some people like to race. Some people like to commit violent crimes Some people like to play games. Some people like to do illicit drugs. Gaming can accurately simulate many things that it would be difficult to do through other avenues, but taking drugs isn’t something you can experience in a game. So it should be no surprise that some gamers are going to use drugs while playing, usually milder ones like pot or other hallucinogens. It comes down to personal choice and personal ethics.
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September 5, 2006 2:47:07 PM

Myself and Rob have a slightly different weltenschaung where it comes to this issue. I'm interested to see how our different (though not opposed) views of the subject play.
September 5, 2006 3:40:29 PM

Quote:
Interestingly the answer to this question isn’t as clear cut as one might think. For example, look at the muscle building community, they have contests, shows, get endorsements, so on... but it is pretty much known and accepted that they all take steroids. There’s no way they could get that big if they didn’t.

But most "respectable" sports do not allow drugs to be used by the players; gaming seems like a sport that should adopt this stance. Steroids may have bad side effects, but the kind of drugs that help that could help professional gamers stay up (and sharp) for several days at a time are potentially fatal and highly addictive. I speak of speed and coke here, not the mostly harmless caffeine.

As to whether the home gamer should be prohibited from using drugs… well technically they already are. But to answer the question anyways; people like to have fun. Some people like to hunt. Some people like to race. Some people like to commit violent crimes Some people like to play games. Some people like to do illicit drugs. Gaming can accurately simulate many things that it would be difficult to do through other avenues, but taking drugs isn’t something you can experience in a game. So it should be no surprise that some gamers are going to use drugs while playing, usually milder ones like pot or other hallucinogens. It comes down to personal choice and personal ethics.


As a bodybuilder myself (and a clean one) we don't all take steroids. Only IFBB professionals tend to take them (and amateur morons who can't seem to realise that they will never go pro, or lazy a***oles who need to look good for the "beach" and dont want to do the work :roll: ) and the federation doesn't test for them because natural BBers don't fill seats. Bet you didn't know there is a professional natural bodybuilding scene as well? (Here is a link of a guy I know who just got his natural pro-card, see a difference? http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/layne.htm )If you did cool, but if you didn't that is expected because it is not and will not get as big as the Mr. Olympia/NOC/Arnold Expo type IFBB competitions.

Anyways more on topic. Gaming is not a sport, although that doesn't mean that it can't have "professional" level competitions. Anybody who uses drugs for that purpose only is a double-idiot. Once for using the drugs in the first place, another for using it for competitive gaming.

If you want to take some LSD and play Doom at home or something that is your own business. Why not just fire up some legal Salvia 20x and have a real spiritual experience though?

Personally I think large LAN parties, unless specified for being over 18 or over 21 only, should be a place where kids of a reasonable age should be able to go and play games and be supervised by responsible adults. If I was running a LAN party and saw drugs of any kind being used or passed around in that situation, you better be damn sure the police would be brought in and that moron would go up on possesion charges. You want to do that stuff do it at home behind closed doors, I don't want to know about it.
September 5, 2006 4:16:21 PM

No, drugs should not be used to enhance ones performance when compeeting in any activity. Lets keep the playing field level to natural ability. If you suck, you just suck. Live with it, make the best of life and move on.

In the example of the LAN party with heavy drug use that the writer attended, you would need to put this into context and give a full history of all the people involved in the party to show that the gaming was cause/effect. If the people at the party had a history of drug use in other activities, or just a few of them did, it might have lead them to introducing it into the LAN party and it becoming a social interaction. It is the people not the activity which defines the acceptance of drug use. I have been to many parties where there is zero use, and to some that had some drug use, and in all situations it came down to the people involved and clasic personality interaction between the attendies.
September 5, 2006 4:44:49 PM

WHOOPIE!!! I was quoted.

TWICE!!!

Anyway, here's how it is.

-Can you get addicted to games? Yes.
-Is it the SAME as being addicted to drugs? No.
-Does the gaming community, as a whole, endorse either? Not really.

And that is where the easy yes/no answers end. Everything else is a set of degrees of severity. Will there be LAN's that have all this stuff? I have no doubt, but I believe they will probably be less prevalent than people gettnig high r tweaked watching Rocky Horror or just sitting around at a party.

What we are seeing here is kind of a crossover between the techies and the bad boys. Odd that somehow people always thought that the two were totally seperate entities. The party that Aaron went to was definitely not the norm and was WAY off the scale in regards to ANY get together. I think the only thing that was odd about it was that these guys included a LAN into the mix.



Now, as for criticism on the article this article referrs to, that is a difficult one to address without sounding like you are coming off and trying to defend your own way of life.

The main issue that people had here was probably the way the article combined two things that did not mesh well. The first part seems to be more clinical, and although people might disagree with Ms. Clinic, they cannot completely rule out all she is saying.

The second part, however, was a story of a Rave gone truly techno. Could it have happened? Yes, but I have not been, or heard of anyone I know of, going to a party where someone mixes speed and viagra together (was that the combo), gives it to the guy, and then the guy runs around naked with an... um... "axe to grind". It just went over the top.

And the lack of any defense of this situation, that these guys did not represent who (she?) was used to playing with made it seem like this story was more for shock and "awwwwwwwww" than to actually get a point across.

It may have indeed been that way, but how does that represent the mainstream and the issues that gamers, and parents should be aware of?
September 5, 2006 4:56:29 PM

Quote:
No, drugs should not be used to enhance ones performance when compeeting in any activity. Lets keep the playing field level to natural ability. If you suck, you just suck. Live with it, make the best of life and move on.


Well there is one large problem with this whole topic what is a drug anyway? for example, some places pot is not a problem in America it is illegal.

I quoted everygamer just because he or she said not drugs should be used. well some peoples faith tells them that things like soda are bad for the body and shuld not be consumed. Is mt. dew a drug just because of the caffeine in it? What if gamers started taking pills that were just caffeine?

so to answer this question the term "drug" needs to be clarified. is it just prescription drugs that a person doesn’t have a prescription for? is it over the counter products? is it just a plant that some say is bad? or is it something that alters your body chemistry? if it is that last one hell an apple is a drug.
September 5, 2006 4:57:47 PM

Should gamers be allowed to use drugs in professional contests?
NO!

That is an issue worth addressing and to be perfectly honest, you have addressed it as far as it needs to go.


Should gamers get stoned while playing games in nonprofessional venues?
I really don't care, its their bodies and minds. As long as they keep it private and don't let their addled brains take them out onto the streets and cause problems, more power to them. Judgement impairing drugs are the variety that I dislike, but I couldn't care less who uses them as long as they don't cause problems for other people while doing so.

This is an issue NOT worth addressing. It is pointless.

That is all.
September 5, 2006 6:10:46 PM

Quote:
No, drugs should not be used to enhance ones performance when compeeting in any activity. Lets keep the playing field level to natural ability. If you suck, you just suck. Live with it, make the best of life and move on.


Well there is one large problem with this whole topic what is a drug anyway? for example, some places pot is not a problem in America it is illegal.

I quoted everygamer just because he or she said not drugs should be used. well some peoples faith tells them that things like soda are bad for the body and shuld not be consumed. Is mt. dew a drug just because of the caffeine in it? What if gamers started taking pills that were just caffeine?

so to answer this question the term "drug" needs to be clarified. is it just prescription drugs that a person doesn’t have a prescription for? is it over the counter products? is it just a plant that some say is bad? or is it something that alters your body chemistry? if it is that last one hell an apple is a drug.

Just to clarify, I said No when when compeeting in any activity. I believe when competing no drugs that can affect your performance should be used, or, everyone should use the same stuff. Whats the point of compeeting if you need something to help you. Not no in general. I side with the previous poster (though he is a bit zelous in it) that be it caffeine or meth, a person can put in their body what ever they want, its their choice and they only get one body so long as they are willing to accept the consiquences of their actions while under the influence, good or bad.

Thing to note, the most heavily used drug by the gaming community is Caffeine. Coffee, Mountain Dew, Bawls, nodo's, etc. For every example someone can put out of a gamer doing pot or meth, you can easliy show 100 gamers getting the big C fix from a number of products, but I would say this is no worse than people who drink a lot of coffee when they are at work. I would also say it is driven by society, I dont remember when coffee drinks were so big with young adults since the Ice Coffee's and Coffee Coolatta's, or Coffee Frapachino's started coming out in the last 10 years. When I was a kid it was soda (fond memories of Jolt in Junior High).
September 5, 2006 6:29:00 PM

Up until a year ago I ran a team that has been together for about 8 years and is now playing WoW with over 400 toons and I've never heard of anything like this. I was pretty hardcore until I quit - married, working full-time, and playing WoW 60 hours a week.

The worst I've seen and personally done is the rare instance (like once or twice a year) where one gets drunk and wipes out in a dungeon and teamwork goes to hell.

My personal drug was caffiene - and I don't mean Red Bull level - just a half-decaf 16oz. coffee in the morning was all it took for me.

Anyway, I'm sure there are abusers of substances in every type of activity and gaming isn't any exception. The initial story made it sound like a much higher proportion of gamers are abusing drugs than my experience tells.
September 5, 2006 6:30:57 PM

I believe all things in moderation are okay. That includes cigarettes, alcohol, caffeine, pot, cocaine, prescription painkillers, ritilin etc.... I do use and have used all those at different times in my life. Each has it's own use and can enhance a given experience.

Better living through chemistry. I feel sorry for those who don't have easy access to these substances as needed. I'm not addicted to anything and can honestly say these substances have greatly improved the quality of my life and I've had no real negative consequences from their use.

Moderation.
September 5, 2006 6:37:57 PM

Can you be a true gamer if you're on drugs? I don't see why not.
Do you have to do drugs to be a good gamer? Hell no.
Do drugs and games have a legitimate connection? Hell no again.

Games and drugs do not lead to each other. A gamer won't necessarily get into drugs, and a drug user will not necessarily get into games. That party he went to (maybe thats the way they are where YOU'RE from) was out of control. That was like a drug/drinking party with a few computers in it. Maybe I'm just ignorant, but I'd think its safe to say that 90% of LAN parties aren't that ridiculous scene that Rob encountered.

Again, games and drugs don't have a connection. Sure people can do both, but that doesn't mean you HAVE to or that games lead to drugs in anyway. I think you'll find that a large majority of people will agree with this statement and that this LAN Party he went to was like the motherload of drug fests and doesn't happen 90% of the time.

So actually, I don't know why this thread is posted again or why the topic is up.
September 5, 2006 7:39:16 PM

Because there was a second article posted on it on the TG site.. ;) 

Oh, BTW, I think it was Aaron that went to the party, and I am not sure, but he might be a she........
September 5, 2006 8:36:50 PM

Quote:
No, drugs should not be used to enhance ones performance when compeeting in any activity. Lets keep the playing field level to natural ability. If you suck, you just suck. Live with it, make the best of life and move on.


Well there is one large problem with this whole topic what is a drug anyway? for example, some places pot is not a problem in America it is illegal.

I quoted everygamer just because he or she said not drugs should be used. well some peoples faith tells them that things like soda are bad for the body and shuld not be consumed. Is mt. dew a drug just because of the caffeine in it? What if gamers started taking pills that were just caffeine?

so to answer this question the term "drug" needs to be clarified. is it just prescription drugs that a person doesn’t have a prescription for? is it over the counter products? is it just a plant that some say is bad? or is it something that alters your body chemistry? if it is that last one hell an apple is a drug.

Just to clarify, I said No when compeeting in any activity. I believe when competing no drugs that can affect your performance should be used, or, everyone should use the same stuff. Whats the point of compeeting if you need something to help you. Not no in general. I side with the previous poster (though he is a bit zelous in it) that be it caffeine or meth, a person can put in their body what ever they want, its their choice and they only get one body so long as they are willing to accept the consiquences of their actions while under the influence, good or bad.

Thing to note, the most heavily used drug by the gaming community is Caffeine. Coffee, Mountain Dew, Bawls, nodo's, etc. For every example someone can put out of a gamer doing pot or meth, you can easliy show 100 gamers getting the big C fix from a number of products, but I would say this is no worse than people who drink a lot of coffee when they are at work. I would also say it is driven by society, I dont remember when coffee drinks were so big with young adults since the Ice Coffee's and Coffee Coolatta's, or Coffee Frapachino's started coming out in the last 10 years. When I was a kid it was soda (fond memories of Jolt in Junior High).

I don’t mean to pick on you everygamer but you say things that I think many have wrong.

First you said that you don’t agree with it when competing in any activity, well sure me and my buddies get together for fun but yeah it is a competition. Ill assume that you meant in the "professional" realm of competing, but still, we have yet to say what is and is not a “drug.”

you later talk about caffeine as a drug, well does that mean that pro athletes cant have a cup of joe in the morning before a game? My thoughts on that one are they can, but hell whets the difference between a caffeine made from coffee beans and opium made from poppy seeds? why is one a "legal" drug and the other not?

the next thing about “what’s the point in competing if you need something to help you.” well that’s almost saying that no team should be allowed to practice before a game because it "helps" them. I know that’s not what you meant by that, the only reason I bring this up is because like with the term drug people use terms very loosely and this causes problems.

And I will say this again because I don’t want any problems. I don’t mean to be an as* to you everygamer, just you say things that I can make my point with.
September 5, 2006 11:56:15 PM

Quote:
Last week's story "Gaming's New Drug Culture" sparked a firestorm of criticism and spirited feedback from readers. But a central question remains: is it acceptable behavior for gamers to use drugs, either for simple enjoyment or to prolong and enhance their play? Readers weigh in on the controversial article and the sensitive subject.


this is even more stupid than the first article.

the obvious answer is no. is it acceptable for people to use ILLEGAL drugs when not playing games? no. so why would it be ok when they are playing games?

this is an obvious move to prolong your spot in the spotlight.
September 5, 2006 11:58:02 PM

Ok enough with the drug stuff I want a nice hardware review I can sink my teeth into.
September 6, 2006 12:09:28 AM

Quote:
Last week's story "Gaming's New Drug Culture" sparked a firestorm of criticism and spirited feedback from readers. But a central question remains: is it acceptable behavior for gamers to use drugs, either for simple enjoyment or to prolong and enhance their play? Readers weigh in on the controversial article and the sensitive subject.


I knew a guy that loved to talk about driving his car at over 160 mph, blowing past people on the Interstate. Everything in his life revolved around his fast car and how fast he drove it. But if someone had a couple of beers and drove home, he'd go off like a cannon. After all, drunk driving is illegal, right? Err, does 2 beers get you legally drunk? Whatever, the suggestion of any illegal substance like pot would launch this guy into Hypoctitical Hyperspace. He didn't like to hear me comparing him driving over double the speed limit to my friend having a couple of beers then driving.

Lots of people become holier-than-thou about drug abuse, as if it's the most horrible thing a person can do. I don't condone it but have studied medicinal chemistry history and the science of addiction enough to know that a certain segment of society WILL abuse substances. Period. There are fixes for some of those people, but for others, abuse seems to be a pillar of the core of their being. We're a ways away from a pure society that will gain approval from the more PC among us.
September 6, 2006 1:57:59 AM

I think that some people have brought up a pretty good point..what about caffiene? i can tell you right now that if i down a 2 liter of diet mt dew before a scrim that my shots will be more accurate and i get more pumped up..and this will never be made against the rules..it is proven that caffiene improves your reaction time

In terms of non-competitive gaming, I do know a lot of users who use drugs, in fact i would say that most of the hardcore players use some type of drug whether it be drinking at least a couple nights a week or smoking a large amount of pot..and

just as others have said, some people can live a normal life while doing drugs and some cant, a perfect example of this is an alcoholic , they cant control themselves and will drink until they are morphed into some kind of raving lunatic or until they pass out (repeatedly)

I dont really see where this discussion can go because of the attitude about drugs in america, people see this as either it is legal or it isnt (most people at least) there is no real solution when they are unwilling to address the reality that people will abuse drugs no matter how much they threaten , point the finger, or whine, and that they should only punish those who threaten the health of other citizens (such as drunk drivers)
September 6, 2006 2:01:49 AM

4 reasons.

Caffiene is legal

Caffiene is readily available

Caffiene is widely used

Caffiene is not particularly harmful to your body or judgement.

Illegal drugs are generally not any of those things.

Quote:
I dont really see where this discussion can go because of the attitude about drugs in america, people see this as either it is legal or it isnt (most people at least) there is no real solution when they are unwilling to address the reality that people will abuse drugs no matter how much they threaten , point the finger, or whine, and that they should only punish those who threaten the health of other citizens (such as drunk drivers)


For the record, I think alcohol is far worse than many illegal drugs and tobacco is no saint either.

Relative to those two killers caffiene is incredibly tame, though a few years ago I gave up caffiene permanently as well. I saw it as the only chemical addiction I had, so I quit cold turkey and never turned back.
September 6, 2006 2:04:12 AM

Quote:
4 reasons.


Caffiene is not particularly harmful to your body or judgement.



that one isnt really true, large amounts of caffiene consumption is one of the top links to heart attack
September 6, 2006 2:08:11 AM

Quote:
4 reasons.


Caffiene is not particularly harmful to your body or judgement.



that one isnt really true, large amounts of caffiene consumption is one of the top links to heart attack

And large amounts of water is one of the leading causes of drowning...

I have personally known people who have died from tobacco, alcohol, and cocaine. I have never even heard of someone dying of caffiene overdose. That takes an awful lot of caffiene.
September 6, 2006 2:25:52 AM

Quote:
4 reasons.


Caffiene is not particularly harmful to your body or judgement.



that one isnt really true, large amounts of caffiene consumption is one of the top links to heart attack

One more thing in regards to this. I did some quick research.

I found this frequently referenced article.

Here are some quick quotes from it.

Quote:
Patients with multiple existing risk factors for coronary heart disease like high blood pressure, high cholesterol, obesity, diabetes as well as smoking are at more than double the risk for a heart attack. However the study could find no measurable effect on heavy coffee consumers.


Quote:
“However, reducing coffee consumption should take a back seat to other health precautions,” said Dr. Andy Wielgosz, of the Heart and Stroke Foundation. “If you have a heart condition, if you have multiple risk factors, the first priority is to attend to those. Reduce those risk factors, control you cholesterol, your blood pressure and discuss the matter with your physician,” Dr. Wielgosz said.


Apparently there is a small risk of heart attack for occasional drinkers of caffiene, but heavy drinkers have a very low chance of a caffiene related heart attack. As for it being one of the top links.. no.

Caffiene is one of the lower recognized risk factors for heart attacks. It is recognized as being a risk factor, but only just barely.
September 6, 2006 2:32:50 AM

Quote:
4 reasons.


Caffiene is not particularly harmful to your body or judgement.



that one isnt really true, large amounts of caffiene consumption is one of the top links to heart attack

One more thing in regards to this. I did some quick research.

I found this frequently referenced article.

Here are some quick quotes from it.

Quote:
Patients with multiple existing risk factors for coronary heart disease like high blood pressure, high cholesterol, obesity, diabetes as well as smoking are at more than double the risk for a heart attack. However the study could find no measurable effect on heavy coffee consumers.


Quote:
“However, reducing coffee consumption should take a back seat to other health precautions,” said Dr. Andy Wielgosz, of the Heart and Stroke Foundation. “If you have a heart condition, if you have multiple risk factors, the first priority is to attend to those. Reduce those risk factors, control you cholesterol, your blood pressure and discuss the matter with your physician,” Dr. Wielgosz said.


Apparently there is a small risk of heart attack for occasional drinkers of caffiene, but heavy drinkers have a very low chance of a caffiene related heart attack. As for it being one of the top links.. no.

Caffiene is one of the lower recognized risk factors for heart attacks. It is recognized as being a risk factor, but only just barely.

I personally believe it is debatable about the risks, my experience in school etc has lead me to believe that it is a cause of heart attack, however i will appreciate your point that it is a point under contention..

but..the issues associated with caffiene arent just limited to the heart ..there are many other commonly known issues, heres a link that displays many of them

# Nervousness
# Trembling
# Irritability
# Muscle tension
# Insomnia
# Tremors
# Gastrointestinal distress - nausea, upset stomach, diarrhea
# Rapid heartbeat
# Low potassium in the blood
# Depression
# Headaches
# Migraine headaches
# Elevated blood glucose
http://www.eatingdisordersonline.com/nutritional/caffie...

I personally have experienced many of these symptoms when consuming too much caffiene, which i commonly do ..I alone am at fault for this but it is difficult for me to overcome, and I even quit smoking cigarettes years ago..

Many of the people I play games online with talk about their caffiene consumption as well and it is common for me to hear, "im on my 5th 1 liter"

With the current overconsumption crisis in america I think that caffiene is becoming more of a threat than it would have been previously.
September 6, 2006 2:46:24 AM

As I said, I did quit caffiene a while back. The side effects were a large part of the reason I decided to.

I know all too well exactly what caffeine does to your body, but relative to the other drugs mentioned, it is very VERY mild.
September 6, 2006 5:52:33 AM

My reply to people who use drugs while playing
Do whatever you want. I'll win by living twice as long as you and enjoying a couple of DECADES more new titles when they hit the shelves.

Or I might just win anyways. I'm no slouch of a player and I'm sneaky. People who are high on drugs have almost no ability to be sneaky. They feel invincible and caution is the first thing they loose. The second problem they face is tunnel-vision/too focused.
September 6, 2006 7:48:48 AM

Firslty we need to ask the question what is a true gamer, I would call some one that is addicted (Obsessed is a better word) to gaming is a true Gamer, whether it be to one paticular game or games in general.

I think Jonathan Wendell (Fatal1ty http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Wendel) Is obsessed to gaming (and I DO NOT think that is a bad thing), Is he using Performance enhancing drugs, I have no Idea, I truly hope not, And I also hope that he and others like him are being tested for these drugs, like any other professinal sport moderates would.

Quote:

Anyways more on topic. Gaming is not a sport, although that doesn't mean that it can't have "professional" level competitions. Anybody who uses drugs for that purpose only is a double-idiot. Once for using the drugs in the first place, another for using it for competitive gaming.


Of course gaming is a sport, yes they might not be pass a ball around or lifting wieghts, but that doesnt mean its not a sport? If it did then I could name alot of things that should not be called sports.

Unfortunatley we are going to find drugs where ever we go, LAN's are not the exception, although they are a minority, Come to think about it I havent seen drugs being used at any of the LAN's I have been too, Drinking but no drugs.
September 6, 2006 9:42:47 AM

In a country where the discourse on drugs, medications, alcohol, over the counter medications, and legal supplements is so irrational, I don't expect that putting drugs and gaming together in the same discussion is going to yield any more than putting drugs together with anything and trying to talk about it. I'm not saying I can do any better, or that it's not worth discussing. But the issue of drugs at all brings in many issues, most of which don't involve the drugs per se but instead involve only certain drugs, or certain situations, or various ideas about proper individual conduct, proper societal norms, protecting the rights of individuals, communities, and the public interest, and so forth.

All chemical substances that we use for their functional or experiential effects are "drugs." The source of those substances matter to some people ("natural" versus "artificial"), but the fact is that that doesn't make any difference. That is, where a chemical comes from doesn't have anything to do with the fact, in the end, that someone is putting that chemical in their body, where it is interacting with something usually very small in the body and having some kind of effect on whatever is already going on in there. Similarly, whether they are legal or illegal, controlled or uncontrolled, harmful to most or harmful to just a few, available or unavailable, better or worse for society as a whole or for some individuals but not others, etc.

- Any drug can be harmful in certain circumstances.
- Some drugs are more accepted, some are less accepted.
- Some drugs are regulated, some are not.
- Some drugs do the same thing in most people, some have widely variable effects.
- Some drugs enhance performance, some don't.
- Some drugs enhance performance in some areas and have a neutral or deleterious effect in other areas.
- Most drug effects are both dose dependent and time dependent; only in a certain dose/time window is the drug most "effective".
- Sometimes it is morally unacceptable to not take drugs, sometimes is it morally unacceptable to take drugs.
- Some drugs will save your life in one instance and kill you in another.

E.g., in the US, caffeine is the most widely used drug; it is performance enhancing for most people at moderate doses, has a withdrawal effect, and demonstrates the typical patterns of tolerance and dependence. But it is completely socially accepted. Alcohol is the second most widely used drug, it is not performance enhancing, so much so that people are often sure that it is performance enhancing; and it has terrible side effects in long term use. Some people think any drinking is wrong, some think drinking in some amounts in some cricumstances is good, some don't think at all because they are always drunk or recovering from it, some think they shouldn't drink but they can't stop. And that's just two most popular drugs. 44% of Americans are on prescription medication.

I view this topic as being in part about gaming taking itself seriously as a competitive activity or sport, and not just a form of entertainment or amusement. In competitive sports, some substances are disallowed, some are not. If you have attention deficit disorder, you can't take your Ritalin during competition in, let's say, tennis, or whatever. You can be hyped up on caffeine though. The focus is usually on whether the use of a particular drug by some competitors but not others gives them a performance advantage that is "unfair." No one is concerned that a fellow competitor might be strung out on heroin, except in the usual way that that might be concerning (which it is). And if it's not allowed in regulated competition (which it probably isn't), that's not because it's not fair that some people can get heroin and others can't.

Can you be a "true" football player and use drugs? Apparently, yes, because it's very common. Can you be a "true" athlete and only play when you are using drugs? Probably not, but that has more to do with what is meant by adding the "true" to the concept of someone doing something. More practically, the issue becomes one of regulations; not being a "true" something, but someone who routinely and perhaps professionally participates in a regulated activity. Outside of that, the "true" descriptor represents more of an aesthetic or moral view we can take on almost any activity we can become passionate about, or anything that might gather a community of enthusiasts. As in: "Anyone can do a little Kung Fu here and there, but they are not true Kung Fu masters."

If you want to participate in regulated competition, you need to follow rules or risk being kicked. Those rules are finite, and there are certain means of detecting rule violators, and there are certain specified consequences. These issues matter to competitors and those that fund and financially benefit from regulated competition. But if a professional athlete does everything they can that is allowed to enhance their performance, including taking certain drugs at certain times (how about just non-steroidal anti-inflammatory pain medicaitons or intramuscular cortisone?), and carefully avoiding using disallowed drugs in a time frame that is detectable by the measures that are used professionally, does that mean he is or is not a true athlete? Because that is what it's like to be a professional athlete.

Regarding the comment about, what if gamers just used caffeine pills:

http://www.thinkgeek.com/caffeine/

What if, indeed... :lol: 

Or maybe we're just talking about marijuana, which is probably in some kind of competition with nicotine for 3rd place.

U! S! A! U! S! A! U! S! A!

-c
September 6, 2006 11:00:53 AM

things such as games are bringing up feelings and emotions,and in such situations people taking drugs to max the effect.
and i think its not right to start a new drug cult on lan partys and i hope there comes an drug info stand the just like on raves.

but i,m not the best person to warn these people,because i got ADHD and use ritalin myself(i dont got any stimulating effect but it helps me a lot for clearer thinkin) and i,m a heroine user for 20 years(no i dont rob old grannys i work,got 2shops,savings account and friends that not use 8O
September 6, 2006 11:41:36 AM

First off, let me introduce myself. I am a moderator at shroomery.org , a site devoted to stop misinformation about drugs and their use. The main subject is hallucinogenic mushrooms, but we deal with information about many other drugs.

I used to be an avid gamer, I'm still a gamer but not so avid anymore :wink: . I'm 31, i do have a good job as a programmer, i have a family and i don't have any problem doing drugs. Probably because i know their effects and i try to moderate their use. I mostly smoke ashish or weed, i do some hallucinogens now and then, probably 3 or 4 times per year. I never did opiates but I've tried stims like cocaine or speed but they're certainly not my thing.

I know US reality and people's mentality are much different than in most European countries. I do live in a European country where drugs are illegal, but it's not a crime to consume them.

Now to the question:
Quote:
is it acceptable behavior for gamers to use drugs, either for simple enjoyment or to prolong and enhance their play?


Some people responses are very open minded. I guess cobalts puts it very well: it doesn't matter much whether drugs are legal or illegal, they are substance that in one way or another will change ones perception about reality and will influence our actions.

Regarding a part of the question, one has to separate two different ideas: "enjoyment" and "enhancement". They differ on its purpose, such purpose is directly linked to the objective of the lan party itself.

Now, and this must be very clear, there are drugs like weed or alcohol that if taken in large amounts won't enhance a thing, in fact they will impair the consumers actions, making it an handicap competition wise. Weed, or THC, in small amounts works as a stimulant for a short period of time, probably no more than 15 or 20 minutes after being consumed, after that it works as a sedative. Alcohol, on the other hand, depends on the amount taken: 0.20 g per liter of blood will enhance the speed on focusing an object (in fact, this was tested on helicopter pilots when targeting, and the ones with such amount would do it faster than pilots with no alcohol in their blood) . So it means the tunneling vision can be a plus in games like fps's if you drink half a pint, but if you drink the whole pint things will work exactly the opposite: your miss rate will be higher than if sober.

Hallucinogens like LSD, mushrooms or salvia won't improve your reflexes at all. On the contrary, they will distract the consumer making him more aware of graphical details rather than the purpose of the game itself.

Therefore, the former mentioned drugs work as "enjoyment" rather than "enhancement" to the actual purpose of gaming. Low doses of alcohol can be the exception, but it isn't very feasible to control the intake, and you can end up with 0.40g/lt instead of the desirable 0.20, thus making things even worst.

Stims like cocaine, speed, mdma or even caffeine, will in fact improve or "enhance" the consumer reflexes for a period of time. But depending on the game, reflexes are not the only factor. Such drugs can and will impair ones judgement in certain situations. Besides, and contrary to weed, alcohol and most hallucinogens, stims are very detrimental to ones health, mainly the heart and the whole circulatory system. They also wear out the brain functions, which makes them dangerous in the long run if used excessively.

Now, regarding if it's an acceptable behavior or not, that's a whole different question. If a group, as a social factor on choosing a desirable environment, sees it as acceptable, then i see no problem at all.

Using drugs for "enjoyment" at a competitive level would certainly be a stupid thing to do. If the purpose is to win, it only makes sense to use drugs to "enhance". If such behavior is acceptable or not, it must be decided by the organizers or the people playing at the party. If you ask me about official events, i'm sure organizers won't let gamers use drugs, and i damn surely agree with them. On a fair competition, one has to be sure all players are at their natural state of consciousness, otherwise that would be cheating or unacceptable.

On the other hand, "home made" lan parties or unofficial lan parties mostly rely on a group of people that know each other and probably most of them trust each other. I'm used to attend at such meetings, where competition is secondary and having fun is primary. Of course i'm not talking about 16 or 18 years old kids, i'm talking about 25 to 30'ish years old peeps.

Anyway, all in all, what people has to realize is that it all depends on the purpose of the lan party itself. If my friends and i are happy with smoking joints, playing some fps till 6 or 7 am and laughing our asses out of it, then i see no problem at all. But if you are into competition or if you have no trust or ease with other people attending the lan party, then apply some respect and abstain the use of drugs. At the end, using some common sense will suffice ...

MAIA
September 6, 2006 1:41:49 PM

Nice post (you too cobalts)

Quote:
Anyway, all in all, what people has to realize is that it all depends on the purpose of the lan party itself. If my friends and i are happy with smoking joints, playing some fps till 6 or 7 am and laughing our asses out of it, then i see no problem at all. But if you are into competition or if you have no trust or ease with other people attending the lan party, then apply some respect and abstain the use of drugs. At the end, using some common sense will suffice ...


I wish more people were like you and I, that is as simple as it gets. I was trying to end up at a simmiler point but I try to start at the basics first. I at least got people to consider caffeine. its one of those "okay" or "legal" drugs and what people need to realize is that choosing to use or not to use one drug or another is just like choosing or following a religion (or lack there of). No one can say that one or another is right or wrong it just a matter of what a group of people decide upon, and agree to abide by.
September 6, 2006 2:08:05 PM

Quote:
If my friends and i are happy with smoking joints, playing some fps till 6 or 7 am and laughing our asses out of it, then i see no problem at all. But if you are into competition or if you have no trust or ease with other people attending the lan party, then apply some respect and abstain the use of drugs. At the end, using some common sense will suffice ...


Unfortunately, as the venerable Twain once remarked, "Common sense isn't." Many of these substances have adverse effects on judgment and cause impairment of common sense (isn't that why most people use them anyway?). I can't say I really object to your first scenario, so long as no one is driving high, but for many people casual drug use begins a long, slippery slide into serious drug abuse, and that is what is of greatest concern to me. As a father of 4 and a teacher of teenagers (I know, I'm a masochist), drugs frighten me - I have seen far too many kids with bright futures get derailed, jailed, or killed because of the direct effects of illegal drugs or the indirect results of the culture that surrounds them.

It strikes me that the percentage of people who can genuinely control their drug usage and not EVER pose a threat to anyone else is quite small; one need only look at the failure rates of people trying to quit smoking to understand how difficult it is to quit using an addictive substance, even when the evidence shows overwhelmingly how harmful cigarettes are. Nicotine has relatively little potential to harm anyone aside from the direct user, which cannot be said about many other drugs of abuse. No matter how you look at it, the costs of using these sorts of drugs, either recreationally or competitively, far outweigh the benefits of them, and that makes it difficult for me to condone any use of even the legal drugs of abuse (alcohol, nicotine, etc.). I guess that's why I always seem to end up as the designated driver... :lol: 
September 6, 2006 2:25:02 PM

I understand you guruofchem. I'm also a father of a 9 year old girl, and i surely don't do drugs in front of her, or advocate their use to her. I'm in favor of a conscious use of such substances by people that feels at ease with them, but I'm all against young people using and abusing such drugs, mostly because they are not fully conscious of its danger. Drugs can be an overwhelming and powerful experience, and like a famous uncle said: "With great power, comes great responsibility".

EDIT: Btw, don't get the idea we're all a bunch of junkies, far from it. We also have many girls that love gaming, as well as some people that just don't do drugs anymore or never did at all. One thing we have in common: we all respect other people choices and we all have fun together.

MAIA
September 6, 2006 2:44:43 PM

Thanks samir_nayanajaad. In fact caffeine can be a dangerous drug, and if taken in large amounts it can produce an adverse effect regarding coordination and attention, which is detrimental to gaming itself. Actually people can die with a caffeine overdose, and amazingly it might seem, it won't happen with drugs such as marijuana.

Quote:
Symptoms in adults may include:

* Sleeping trouble
* Muscle twitching
* Confusion
* In and out of consciousness
* Urination - increased
* Increased thirst
* Death
* Fever
* Breathing trouble
* Vomiting
* Diarrhea
* Irregular heartbeat
* Rapid heart beat
* Hallucinations
* Dizziness
* Convulsions


Source: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002579....

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

... and this is a good link to anyone wanting to know more about drugs, their dangers and effects:

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/caffeine/caffeine_effec...

Quote:
What are the short term effects of caffeine on the body?

Caffeine increases heartbeat, respiration, basal metabolic rate, gastroenteric reflexes, and the production of stomach acid and urine; and it relaxes smooth muscles, notably the bronchial muscle. All of these changes vary considerably among people and may depend upon the individual's sensitivity to this drug, his/her metabolism, or upon whether the consumer habitually uses or rarely uses caffeine. How long caffeine's effects last is influenced by the person's hormonal status, whether he/she smokes or takes medications, or has a disease that impairs liver functioning.

Subjectively, people report that caffeine gives them a "lift." They feel less drowsy, less fatigued, more capable of rapid and sustained intellectual effort. They also report improved performance of some manual tasks such as driving. However, caffeine may restore only those abilities or feelings the person had before fatigue or boredom set in. Studies have also shown that caffeine decreases reaction time to both visual and auditory stimuli; it does not significantly alter numerical reasoning (arithmetic skills) or short-term memory; and it can diminish performance of manual tasks that involve delicate muscular coordination and accurate timing.

When caffeine is taken in high doses it can cause many unwanted side effects. To learn more about these, please read "What are the symptoms of caffeine overdose?"


MAIA
September 6, 2006 2:48:29 PM

Quote:
If my friends and i are happy with smoking joints, playing some fps till 6 or 7 am and laughing our asses out of it, then i see no problem at all. But if you are into competition or if you have no trust or ease with other people attending the lan party, then apply some respect and abstain the use of drugs. At the end, using some common sense will suffice ...


Unfortunately, as the venerable Twain once remarked, "Common sense isn't." Many of these substances have adverse effects on judgment and cause impairment of common sense (isn't that why most people use them anyway?). I can't say I really object to your first scenario, so long as no one is driving high, but for many people casual drug use begins a long, slippery slide into serious drug abuse, and that is what is of greatest concern to me. As a father of 4 and a teacher of teenagers (I know, I'm a masochist), drugs frighten me - I have seen far too many kids with bright futures get derailed, jailed, or killed because of the direct effects of illegal drugs or the indirect results of the culture that surrounds them.

It strikes me that the percentage of people who can genuinely control their drug usage and not EVER pose a threat to anyone else is quite small; one need only look at the failure rates of people trying to quit smoking to understand how difficult it is to quit using an addictive substance, even when the evidence shows overwhelmingly how harmful cigarettes are. Nicotine has relatively little potential to harm anyone aside from the direct user, which cannot be said about many other drugs of abuse. No matter how you look at it, the costs of using these sorts of drugs, either recreationally or competitively, far outweigh the benefits of them, and that makes it difficult for me to condone any use of even the legal drugs of abuse (alcohol, nicotine, etc.). I guess that's why I always seem to end up as the designated driver... :lol: 

Once again I will play devils advocate, I do agree with you, but I like to debate topics even if that means taking a side I don’t necessarily believe in. And it seems as though this topic has brought out some good points on both sides in a respectable manner.

You mention that people take some drugs to alter their common sense and judgment, or alter their perception of reality as MAIA mentioned. Well as a teacher you should be trying to get kids to think outside the box so to speak, at least I hope you do. The main way of getting people to think outside the box is to get them to look at the box from some other point of view. Some people can think of the greatest things when on some drugs. Edger Alan Poe for example was addicted to opium if I remember correctly and look at what great works he could write. Some of the world greatest artisans and craftsmen were bipolar (they would be extremely happy at one time then fall into a deep depression), mark twain was bipolar too. Some drugs can have one or both of those effects on the body and mind so hey maybe a coke addict who has a phd will think of a cure for cancer someday.

Another thing you mention is that there is no benefit in taking some drugs because of the adverse affects it causes on the body. Well I will look at one example to draw a parallel, scalping tickets. Some feel this is wrong because it rips off the customer, but is it so bad? One person values seeing a super bowl very highly another values money very highly. They can both be much happier if the person with a ticket to the game sells the ticket to the other who values the game. Both parties are happy because they have both obtained what makes them happy. Is that so wrong?

Now with drugs maybe one person values the experiences in life as to the quantity of life, so if taking drugs to alter their experience to something they have not yet experienced is that a bad thing if it cuts their life by 20 years. Hey lets face it anyone of us can be hit by a bus tomorrow or we could live to be 110.

On a final note I will say that you being a teacher is one of the most respectable jobs around and thank you for you work. Also thanks for driving some of the drunk people around, because although they have all the right in the world to get drunk, everyone else also has all the right in the world to live.
September 6, 2006 5:58:42 PM

Caffiene's negative effects are all very minor however.

It is only when in conjuction to much higher risk activities/situations/drugs that caffiene becomes dangerous.

Also many people do not realize that Caffiene is not a pure stimulant. Part of how it works is by binding to, and mostly not activating, the landing sites on cells for the neurotransmitter that causes you to feel sleepy. This prevents this neurotransmitter (which is always present in your bloodstream even if you are wide awake) from having its full effect.

However in binding to that landing site it also closes your ATP transports on the cell. ATP is the type of chemical that cells use for energy so this effectively cuts your cells off from getting new energy. This generally results in a "floaty" feeling. You are awake but not entirely aware of whats going on around you.

That is also why fine motor skills and such activities are diminished by its consumption.

There are ways to avoid many of the more immediate negative side effects of caffiene, but usually at the cost of different side effects instead.

Caffeine still remains one of the least damaging mainstream drugs available in the US which is why it is so widespread.

Also the only harm marajana does is inhibit your judgement and perception. This is fine if you are staying indoors among friends who know what to expect, but it can be extremely dangerous in an uncontrolled environment for those reasons.
September 6, 2006 6:33:25 PM

*checks*

I think I can assure you that I am a he.
September 6, 2006 6:52:33 PM

One word: NO.

Drugs only enhance your suffering on earth. Get sucked in and you'll never be the same, ever again. And, you won't like it.
September 6, 2006 7:26:46 PM

Quote:
One word: NO.

Drugs only enhance your suffering on earth. Get sucked in and you'll never be the same, ever again. And, you won't like it.


First - all drugs may not enhance your suffering, what about painkillers? Or would you like a surgeon to just cut right into you, possibly have your dentist pull those wisdom teeth with no Novocain or knocking you out.

Second - of course you won’t be the same everything affects who you are, even down to what you see. This is why high school football is played in the fall and at dusk. The leaves are changing to a red orange color and the sunsets make the sky look red, all this red color is shown in increase aggression especially in adolescent boys.

Third - just because you don't like what someone else is, that doesn’t mean they don’t like it. It was either 60 minutes or the cbs evening news that did a story about people who love their jobs. One that I remember is a 65 year old guy that was getting ready to retire who had worked as a garbage man in new york most of his life, and loved doing it because of all the people he got to meet and know. I couldn’t ever do that for a living my whole life like that man did and love it, as he probably couldnt sit at a coumputer all day as I do and love it.
September 6, 2006 8:35:41 PM

Samir,

You assumed too much.

Of course I was talking about drugs that are abused. Wasn't that obvious enough? You seem to have a grudge, or are on those abusive drugs. Think before you spout, OK?
September 6, 2006 9:00:01 PM

Quote:
Samir,

You assumed too much.

Of course I was talking about drugs that are abused. Wasn't that obvious enough? You seem to have a grudge, or are on those abusive drugs. Think before you spout, OK?


Ok, I know you were talking about drugs that are abused and abuse of painkillers such as oxicondin and even morphine is quite a problem. Also if you read a little more of this thread you would note that the heavy abuse of caffeine was also brought up partly by myself and mostly others after I mentioned it.

I have no grudge against you or anyone for that matter nor do I use those abused drugs, I am on your side of this. I don’t think drugs that are illegal or are required to have a prescription should be allowed in professional sports. And to clarify that I think prescription drugs can be allowed but only to the extent of the prescription the person has for that drug, so as to correct the imbalance the person has and not put them at a disadvantage.

As for assuming to much I think it is you not I that assume too much, such as you assuming I am attacking you when all I did was to point out the faults in your argument or statements whatever you would call them. I am not attacking you just trying to help by getting more out of you than just the typical "its this way because I say so" and I needed to take what you said to an extreme so you might see where I think you went wrong

Maybe you would care to clarify why you think drugs enhance your suffering on earth why you won’t be the same and why you won’t like it. Heck even if you tell me that you have some personal experience that I in no way can relate to, and that is your reason it will be fine. Opinions are fine; just say why you have them, not just the opinion.
September 6, 2006 11:35:57 PM

Quote:
Last week's story "Gaming's New Drug Culture" sparked a firestorm of criticism and spirited feedback from readers. But a central question remains: is it acceptable behavior for gamers to use drugs, either for simple enjoyment or to prolong and enhance their play? Readers weigh in on the controversial article and the sensitive subject.


There is a recreational drug culture in most, if not all, developed societies and the key word in that turn of phrase is recreational.

If adults accept the dangers of doing illegal--and legal--substances, and they use them in a recreational sense whilst playing/enjoying a game then that is there choice. If they're caught then they will naturally face the long arm of the law.

But gaming is a hobby thats most enjoyed by juveniles (per capita, although I know the stats are changing on this) and if they're around events that see adults or other juveniles off their trees on whatever then I believe you have a very serious ethical dilemma to face.

As with professional sports, drugs are not tolerated and if gaming was to ever go that way (go pro) then I'm sure there'd be a governing body which would stipulate a zero tolerance policy.

Personally, apart from having enjoyed a few beers one night with UT2004, capture the flag, Instagib, I'd never wish to get high and play games; in fact, I'd see that as a major waste. :wink:

On a side note: I could certaily see how meth could enhance some dude's FPS afternoon with the lads via his local lan party and tragically-- having seen first hand the ultra-destructive nature of that drug--I think it could become a sad norm for some players.
September 7, 2006 5:10:42 AM

absolutley GUI- gaming under the influence should be punishable by forcing players to play mario brothers for 1 year, repeat offenders must do 100 hours community service in their Sim's community!
September 7, 2006 5:20:28 AM

Quote:
There is a recreational drug culture in most, if not all, developed societies and the key word in that turn of phrase is recreational.


Correctamundo. Studies from the last 50 years of isolated 3rd world and some primitive cultures have shown trends somewhat similar to those of more "civilized" societies.

Quote:
As with professional sports, drugs are not tolerated and if gaming was to ever go that way (go pro) then I'm sure there'd be a governing body which would stipulate a zero tolerance policy.


If that happens, let's hope they do a better job than pro soccer, bike racing, baseball, etc.
September 20, 2006 5:38:13 AM

If you use drugs, your a loser.

Regardless of whether or not your on your PC 24/7, when you take drugs, you are no longer a human being, you are the drug you are doing.

Beer however, is ok :wink:
September 21, 2006 2:06:05 AM

Quote:
If you use drugs, your a loser.

Regardless of whether or not your on your PC 24/7, when you take drugs, you are no longer a human being, you are the drug you are doing.

Beer however, is ok :wink:


OK I don't know if you are drunk or just making a joke but I think this has to be the dumbest thing I have read all day long. First of Beer is one of the worst drugs I have ever seen in my life. I have had a friend die from that drug and much of my family torn a part by it. Many people I know are alcoholics and they have destroyed many peoples lives. And I'm not even talking about drunk driving I'm just talking about the people that drink all the time hit there kids and beat there wife just for the kicks they get out of it. Because they cant control there anger because the are to messed up to understand what they are doing.

Now I'm not saying that beer and the like are the only bad drug out there hell its legal but I think that it is one of the worse and not because it is legal because of what it does to the family what it does to your mind (the brain is forever damaged if you over drink) and what it can do to the body (ever heard of a beer belly?) Now I would also like to say that yes I drink and yes every once in a while I will get drunk but I control my self and what I do when I drink as much as I can. I make sure to control my consumption of the drug and I know lots of people who do and they lead normal lives. I also know pot heads that smoke way to much pot and have never hurt anyone out side of that fly that got freaked out by the slow moving hand that try to hit it. The reason I bring this up is because from what I understand from what i have been reading is that you people are harping on all illegal drugs and don't even consider the legal ones to be bad at all. Now if I was 21 and had a LAN with all 21+ aged people and we where all drinking and having fun most on here seem to think this is cool and OK. Hell I am fallowing the law and that makes it just great. How ever if I where to have a LAN with everyone there being 21+ and all smoking pot (no other illegal drugs and hell lets say no other legal drugs) then we should all have the cops called on us and we should all spend the rest of our lives (well at least take the rest of our lives away) in jail. At least that's what I'm getting out of most posts here. Now the worse thing I can think of happening in LAN B is everyone falling asleep before the night is over and the worse thing I can think of happening in LAN A (from the drug) is an angry fight because some one shot some guy in the back in a FPS and that drunk punk get up and smash everyone's computer because well his mad and he need to brake something.

Just so that you also understand I do not think that any pro should use drugs to enhance his/her performance at all. This is stupid and should be band (it normally is :p ) Anyway if you want to do drugs (of what ever kind) in your home that up to you but once you start hurting people I do have a problem with it but if you can control your self I say do what you want even if it is against the law because well have you looked at who makes our laws? Illegal legal a drug is a drug.

Anyway hope you all have fun gaming and hope you don't be come a druggie :p 
September 21, 2006 3:59:55 AM

Quote:
If you use drugs, your a loser.

Regardless of whether or not your on your PC 24/7, when you take drugs, you are no longer a human being, you are the drug you are doing.

Beer however, is ok :wink:


Ok I don't know if you are drunk or just making a joke but I think this has to be the dumbest thing I have read all day long. Frist of Beer is one of the worst drugs I have ever seen in my life. I have had a friend die from that drug and much of my family torn a part by it. Many people I know are alchoholics and they have destroyed many peoples lives. And Im not even talking about drunk driving Im just talking about the people that drink all the time hit there kids and beat there wifes just for the kicks they get out of it. Because they cant control there anger because the are to messed up to understand what they are doing.

Now Im not saying that beer and the like are the only bad drug out there hell its legal but I think that it is one of the worse and not because it is legal because of what it does to the family what it does to your mind (the brain is forever damaged if you over drink) and what it can do to the body (ever heard of a beer belly?) Now I would also like to say that yes I drink and yes every once in a while I will get drunk but I control my self and what I do when I drink as much as I can. I make sure to control my consuption of the drug and I know lots of people who do and they lead normal lives. I also know pot heads that smoke way to much pot and have never hurt anyone out side of that fly that got freaked out by the slow moving hand that try to hit it. The reason I bring this up is because from what I understand from what i have been reading is that you people are harping on all illegal drugs and don't even consider the legal ones to be bad at all. Now if I was 21 and had a lan with all 21+ aged people and we where all drinking and having fun most on here seem to think this is cool and ok. Hell I am fallowing the law and that makes it just great. How ever if I where to have a lan with everyone there being 21+ and all smoking pot (no othere illegal drugs and hell lets say no other legal drugs) then we should all have the cops called on us and we should all spend the rest of our lives (well at least take the rest of our lives away) in jail. Atleast thats what Im getting out of most posts here. Now the worse thing I can think of happening in Lan B is everyone falling asleep before the night is over and the worse thing I can think of happening in Lan A (from the drug) is an angry fight because some one shot some guy in the back in a FPS and that drunk punk get up and smash everyones computer because well his mad and he need to brake something.

Just so that you also understand I do not think that any pro should use drugs to inhance his/her proformance at all. This is stupid and should be band (it normaly is :p ) Anyway if you want to do drugs (of what ever kind) in your home that up to you and I have no opion but once you start hurting people I do have a problem with it but if you can control your self I say do what you want even if it is agenst the law because well have you looked at who makes our laws? Illigal legal a drug is a drug.

Anyway hope you all have fun gaming and hope you don't be come a druggy :p 

(sorry for the spelling don't have time to spell check it but I will edit it once I have the time if you guys get cranky. Im doing this from work and I have to go home :p )

You didnt read what I said did you?
September 21, 2006 8:06:11 PM

I think I read what you said if you are talking about...

If you use drugs, your a loser.

Regardless of whether or not your on your PC 24/7, when you take drugs, you are no longer a human being, you are the drug you are doing.

Beer however, is OK

Then yes I read it and I have looked through the rest of the posts and I haven't seen you post anything else on this topic. I'm sorry if I took the statement the wrong way but as I said at the start of my post I didn't know if this was a joke or not.

Also I was mostly I was just up set at how people are attacking illegal drugs and not even considering how bad drugs legal or illegal are. It comes down to how you use the drug not what drug you are using. Its a fact that millions of Americans take drugs for headaches to a good old trip and there are people who can use drugs and lead normal every day lives and not be all messed up and some that cant. It comes down more to the person using the drugs and they way a person was raised with education and parents that raised them. And I really hate it when people praise beer and the like and think that all legal drugs are great but illegal will destroy the lives of anyone that use them.
September 21, 2006 11:51:40 PM

I think we can all agree that it is best advised to stay sober.
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