World of Warcraft: Trouble in Azeroth?
- Thread starter robwright
- Start date
Once Blizzard realised the implications of the honor system they'd implemented, I'm not surprised they were keen to knock it on the head as soon as possible.
The best thing Blizzard could have is a free therapy hotline for all those who got caught up in the mad rush to get to rank 14 before it was scrapped. Lets face it, the equipment will be redundant come BC, and so really it comes down to the prestige of having achieved the title of High Warlord/Grand Marshal - which given what you need to do to get there just flags you as either a cheater or someone who has no life at all.
Everyone has known this change has been coming, ironically so that WoW won't have to be a full time job to be competitive, so if there were people who thought they could beat the change, the best thing they could do is cancel their subscription in disgust and Learn2Live. Quite frankly unless something as compelling competes with WoW, Blizzard knows they'll be back as soon as Burning Crusades comes out.
The best thing Blizzard could have is a free therapy hotline for all those who got caught up in the mad rush to get to rank 14 before it was scrapped. Lets face it, the equipment will be redundant come BC, and so really it comes down to the prestige of having achieved the title of High Warlord/Grand Marshal - which given what you need to do to get there just flags you as either a cheater or someone who has no life at all.
Everyone has known this change has been coming, ironically so that WoW won't have to be a full time job to be competitive, so if there were people who thought they could beat the change, the best thing they could do is cancel their subscription in disgust and Learn2Live. Quite frankly unless something as compelling competes with WoW, Blizzard knows they'll be back as soon as Burning Crusades comes out.
I had to quit playing WoW. It's like a full time job, addicting, & expensive. I am not a huge RPG fan but I always was a HUGE Blizzard Fan I loved the warcraft series eversince the very first Warcraft, so naturally I had to play WoW. But now I stay away, I like having a normal life. LOL
Blizzard was very clear on what was happening, I don't think the patch and honor wipe should have come as a surprise to anyone. Especially not someone logging 16 hours a day in the game.
If you wanted to rush it knowing that a wipe was coming, that was a gamble you took. They didn't just spring this on us out of the blue.
If you wanted to rush it knowing that a wipe was coming, that was a gamble you took. They didn't just spring this on us out of the blue.
Article = Nice Rant. Unfortunately, I think every PvP player misconstrues what this means. The amount of PVP it takes to get to GM/HWL that is done in a week should be enough to get your entire PVP set plus weapons. One to two more weeks of grinding? Boohoo.
I think people just like knee-jerk reactions.
I think people just like knee-jerk reactions.
When obtaining a goal in a game becomes a "grind" and feels more like a really bad job, then there's something wrong.
The system was broke, the hardcore PvPer knew this better than anyone. Fixing a problem of this scale was bound to be painful, and I think Blizzard was right in the way they handled it. They would never be able to make even a few people happy with changes, so they did what they thought was necessary.
The system was broke, the hardcore PvPer knew this better than anyone. Fixing a problem of this scale was bound to be painful, and I think Blizzard was right in the way they handled it. They would never be able to make even a few people happy with changes, so they did what they thought was necessary.
OK, so you didn't get your cheap mount either. We can mourn together. But, I'm sick and tired of seeing people standing around in the cave of AV, which, you didn't mention. Hopefully, that will be gone now.
How about a follow up article the week before BC, to see if you really miss the crazy grind? Fortunately, I dropped the crazy grind months ago, and don't miss it at all. But, still enjoy the BG's very much. You will recover.
How about a follow up article the week before BC, to see if you really miss the crazy grind? Fortunately, I dropped the crazy grind months ago, and don't miss it at all. But, still enjoy the BG's very much. You will recover.
chewedtoothpick
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- Dec 5, 2006
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As a person who plays both PvE and PvP equally - I can say this is a welcome change. The current system is so very broke. I have a 19 Rogue that gets absolutely owned by some of the other 19s simply because they have better gear... Heck, I have even had my 36 lock 'owned' by a "twinked" 19 - because those people have enough time to grind their way for the better gear, be it in PvP or PvE. There are people like me (and I would assume the majority of players fall under this category) who simply don't have the time necessary to succeed under the (now old) system. I have already given up enough of my home life (don't care for it really anyways to be honest) to succeed as well as I have in the game, but to become 'Epic' I would have to become like some of those I know who absolutely disgust me.
There is a life outside the game. Just because other people can now succeed at something PRETEND, doesn't mean that it is all that bad. I agree that Blizzard would have been nice had they given a firm date, or allowed that very last minute to reap the fruit of your labor, but then it would have been "Why didn't they give us another week" or "Why didn't they just wait for the expansion" or even "Why didn't they just keep it how it was?"
Hopefully this new system will let me recover some time to spend with my fiance.
There is a life outside the game. Just because other people can now succeed at something PRETEND, doesn't mean that it is all that bad. I agree that Blizzard would have been nice had they given a firm date, or allowed that very last minute to reap the fruit of your labor, but then it would have been "Why didn't they give us another week" or "Why didn't they just wait for the expansion" or even "Why didn't they just keep it how it was?"
Hopefully this new system will let me recover some time to spend with my fiance.
captainlooney
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- Oct 4, 2006
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Good change in my opinion, WoW rewards the hardcore player shafts the casual player with the old system. Going by the old system, no matter how much total playing time a casual player could put in they would never be able to attain the PvP gear they wanted. Most people have lives, jobs, and family, they can't afford to put in 14-16 hour days on WoW consistently. Finally Blizzard did something about it, boohoo for those 14-16 hour losers whining about it.
Quite frankly I quit WoW, just because it rewarded the hardcore and shafted the casual (I've played it since release). Losing 10 hours a day to work/commutes only to log on and play for 1-2 hours a day doesn't get you rank 14 let alone 11. Those who are griping about this change the most are those who are Rank 13.9 and those (inclusive of the 13.9s) who have absolutely no lives.
Sad day for 13 year olds, class ditching college students, and unemployed WoW junkies. Oh well, no biggies... Blizzard has the money, they have the arrogance, they can do whatever they want and the masses will still bend over backwards willingly to hand Blizzard their money. There will always be whiners about game content changes, it happens in every MMO I've ever played. Do they really follow through with their threats to quit? Hah... only like 10% of them have the balls to quit their addictions cold turkey. Let em whine, they'll accept it like good little boys and girls in Sunday School shortly after the update.
Quite frankly I quit WoW, just because it rewarded the hardcore and shafted the casual (I've played it since release). Losing 10 hours a day to work/commutes only to log on and play for 1-2 hours a day doesn't get you rank 14 let alone 11. Those who are griping about this change the most are those who are Rank 13.9 and those (inclusive of the 13.9s) who have absolutely no lives.
Sad day for 13 year olds, class ditching college students, and unemployed WoW junkies. Oh well, no biggies... Blizzard has the money, they have the arrogance, they can do whatever they want and the masses will still bend over backwards willingly to hand Blizzard their money. There will always be whiners about game content changes, it happens in every MMO I've ever played. Do they really follow through with their threats to quit? Hah... only like 10% of them have the balls to quit their addictions cold turkey. Let em whine, they'll accept it like good little boys and girls in Sunday School shortly after the update.
I played WoW for nearly two years, and soon after I hit 60, aside from the casual MC/BWL/20-man runs, I spent my time pvp'ing since that was more entertaining than the alternative.
In my opinion, the game was much more fun when pvp was happening mostly outside of battlegrounds, when there were no clear rewards other than the satisfaction of victory. I never got on the honor grind bandwagon, since if I did I probably would have never gotten my degree.
This decision to transform honor points into directly redeemable "coins" seems very sensible to me, it takes the obsessive-compulsive aspect out of pvp (although I have to admit that those prone to it will likely find another way to feed the addiction).
For those who feel outraged because they wont get to achieve their "goal", just look at it in perspective. Your "goal" was a database entry in a server that services a game that will be outdated and likely closed in 2 years. If your main reason to play was that goal ... you need professional help. Otherwise, set another goal and enjoy the pwnage.
Cheers
In my opinion, the game was much more fun when pvp was happening mostly outside of battlegrounds, when there were no clear rewards other than the satisfaction of victory. I never got on the honor grind bandwagon, since if I did I probably would have never gotten my degree.
This decision to transform honor points into directly redeemable "coins" seems very sensible to me, it takes the obsessive-compulsive aspect out of pvp (although I have to admit that those prone to it will likely find another way to feed the addiction).
For those who feel outraged because they wont get to achieve their "goal", just look at it in perspective. Your "goal" was a database entry in a server that services a game that will be outdated and likely closed in 2 years. If your main reason to play was that goal ... you need professional help. Otherwise, set another goal and enjoy the pwnage.
Cheers
To quote a few of our goblin friends: "interesting"
But not entireley accurate
Blizzard have said again and again: honor will be reset in TBC. This will happen late Nov/early dec.
They delayed TBC but then said we will be bringing patch 2.0 out instead. The mob howled. We need confirmation they howled. As always with any major patch: about 3 weeks after the PTR. So here it is. With an unprecedented weeks confirmation. Right on schedule for early Dec.
The people that didn't make it will still be able to get the gear - a lot quicker than the people they regularly beat up in BG's. The only thing that is altered by this patch ir the highest lifetime rank is now set in stone.
The thing I found most interesting in the article is the comparison to PvE. The interesting thing is that that already did it. It was the great NR gear debacle. You may recall when AQ40 came out the only NR gear that was up to the job came from the world dragons - And farming them was pretty happhazard and extremely competitive. So they added other ways of getting NR gear (CC rep). And the raiders said "yay - good job"
From my pov all the old system did was make me not want to PvP - there was no fun and no point. And the PvE grind became repetitive and overly difficult. So I had pretty much cut down to playing alts a couple of nights a week while my subscription ran down.
The excessive unrealistic behaviour of a relatively small minority has been knocked out. Maybe now it can return to being a game for fun and enjoyment.
But not entireley accurate
Blizzard have said again and again: honor will be reset in TBC. This will happen late Nov/early dec.
They delayed TBC but then said we will be bringing patch 2.0 out instead. The mob howled. We need confirmation they howled. As always with any major patch: about 3 weeks after the PTR. So here it is. With an unprecedented weeks confirmation. Right on schedule for early Dec.
The people that didn't make it will still be able to get the gear - a lot quicker than the people they regularly beat up in BG's. The only thing that is altered by this patch ir the highest lifetime rank is now set in stone.
The thing I found most interesting in the article is the comparison to PvE. The interesting thing is that that already did it. It was the great NR gear debacle. You may recall when AQ40 came out the only NR gear that was up to the job came from the world dragons - And farming them was pretty happhazard and extremely competitive. So they added other ways of getting NR gear (CC rep). And the raiders said "yay - good job"
From my pov all the old system did was make me not want to PvP - there was no fun and no point. And the PvE grind became repetitive and overly difficult. So I had pretty much cut down to playing alts a couple of nights a week while my subscription ran down.
The excessive unrealistic behaviour of a relatively small minority has been knocked out. Maybe now it can return to being a game for fun and enjoyment.
guruofchem
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- Apr 3, 2006
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Hear, Hear! I have avoided PvP for 2 reasons - the grind needed to get any decent perks or gear, and the insane behavior of many in the PvP community that made it so difficult to get the ranks in the first place. If I understand the system correctly, I can gain access to the same gear without the grind for rank by accumulating tokens to purchase it - at whatever pace I choose! What a concept!
I would equate what the hardcore PvPers are going through to what the horse/buggy industries went through when the automobile became widely available, only without the loss of job, livelihood, ability to feed and clothe family, etc. Wait, now that I think about it, there is no comparison, because WoW is a game, and that was real life hardship. :roll:
The rant is fine, and at some level I am sorry that the hardcore PvPers had their sandbox upended, but the change is undoubtedly good for the non-hardcore player, which makes up maybe 95% (and likely more) of the accounts Blizzard has. Let us not fear the tyranny of the sullen minority, I say to Blizzard, and thanks for trying to make an already great game better.
torque79
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- Jun 14, 2006
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I've only been playing WOW for about 2 months now, so forgive me if I seem ignorant, but I don't get where the advantage is. Okay, the "honor" you gain in PVP degraded over time so you had to keep fighting frequently. Now, you can go months between with no penalty, simply by keeping the tokens or whatever. Seems like a somewhat minor improvement to me, but a good one to be sure.
However, to get high-end gear, they could simply charge 30 trillion tokens. The end result, is you still have to PVP for ungodly hours to gain whatever it is you want. Without knowing how much the gear costs yet, how do we know this system is genuinely aiding the casual gamer? sure you can play occasionally and buy gear, but then you'd have to play for 2 years with one toon to get sufficient tokens to buy the BEST gear? If it's not set up that way, a hardcore gamer can play 7 hours a day for a couple of weeks and have all the gear that takes the casual gamer 2 years.
I think my understanding of this system is all screwed up.
However, to get high-end gear, they could simply charge 30 trillion tokens. The end result, is you still have to PVP for ungodly hours to gain whatever it is you want. Without knowing how much the gear costs yet, how do we know this system is genuinely aiding the casual gamer? sure you can play occasionally and buy gear, but then you'd have to play for 2 years with one toon to get sufficient tokens to buy the BEST gear? If it's not set up that way, a hardcore gamer can play 7 hours a day for a couple of weeks and have all the gear that takes the casual gamer 2 years.
I think my understanding of this system is all screwed up.
You're right on the money there, the difference though is that it IS achievable by anyone over time. Quite frankly they still want people spending as much time as possible in front of the game, and the game will always reward that. The difference is psychological. If you want to go hard at the PvP grind for a month you can, but if you start to resent having to put in 10+ hours a day just to keep up, then you can stop without being penalised.
The brilliance of Blizzard is that they designed a game that has similar addictive qualities to a poker/slot machine - constant small rewards to keep everyone feeding the money in with a jackpot that appears that anyone could get it. Once you get there of course they up the jackpot through expansion packs and new gear.
Snorkius
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To those that whine about hardcore addicts: a game should reward dedication and the time put into it. A system that gives great gear to all casual players is going to be much, much worse.
That the amount of work is proportional to the reward is just logical.
That said, most players are casual and must be appeased.
What Blizzard has done seems like a good balance.
I guess it's the reason I've never gotten into MMORPGs. They all seem so restricted and... fake I guess. The game designers have to implement tortured systems of rules and limitations in order to keep balance and appease everyone - it sucks.
I long for something like Second Life except with death and killing and leveling.
That the amount of work is proportional to the reward is just logical.
That said, most players are casual and must be appeased.
What Blizzard has done seems like a good balance.
I guess it's the reason I've never gotten into MMORPGs. They all seem so restricted and... fake I guess. The game designers have to implement tortured systems of rules and limitations in order to keep balance and appease everyone - it sucks.
I long for something like Second Life except with death and killing and leveling.
torque79
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this is way off topic, but I keep seeing references to this "second life" thing on TomsHardware lately. what is it? It sounds just like the sims, but online? Sims was immensely boring, I am surprised anyone would be talking about something similar on THIS site.
Second life is a world made by the users using the tools that come with the game. It has a legal exchange rate with US$ currency (both to and from Linden dollars). The thing is that the world is as big as the users who lease space, so has grown pretty fast. Unlike WoW which has the world downloaded to the client, there is no possible way the entire Secondlife world would fit in the client so it has to be dynamically rendered hence the graphics are a bit average.
Blizzard flirted with the idea of player housing in WoW, but discarded it pretty quickly. I agree with the OP, something like secondlife merged with WoW would be fantastic.
torque79
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I'm lost. You mean you buy the game, it has moderate graphics, you have to design it yourself, and then you actually have to pay real money to acquire the in-game "linden dollars"? I read the article saying that you can buy Dell computers in that game now, but it would involve some math to figure out if you're paying more after conversion from US to linden dollars.
can you actually acquire/earn "linden dollars" by playing the "game"? At that point, because the linden dollars have actual conversion rate to USD, I assume you can convert it back and get cash? So, "playing" this "game" could be your full-time job? that blows my mind.
Does this even meet the general definition of a "game"? it sounds like an online shopping mall, using artificial money with a conversion rate to make it confusing to understand if you're paying more/less for products than in a real life retail store.
I think I'll have to go read up on this, because I must be way off track, this sounds rediculous to me.
Last post on this topic, but yeah someone made their first US$ million by buying and reselling land, and designing houses for second life.
You might be interested in this video of the founders giving a google talk about secondlife http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5182759758975402950
You might be interested in this video of the founders giving a google talk about secondlife http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5182759758975402950
hypnotic_frog
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(korndawg64
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Rob,
An interesting article but, I cannot fathom the biased and seemingly misinformed nature of the article as a slam on PvPing in WoW.
My first instance is that the changes were dropped on unsuspecting players who had no idea they were coming.
Posted 11-14-06
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/patchnotes/test-realm-patchnotes.html
And here 11/28/06
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=51145118&sid=1
You imply that the changes were made veritably with out notice. Historically, any patches that are on the PTR (public test realm) are implementend within 1.5 months depending on the scope and complexity of the patches.
If you have any interaction with software developement you will realize that they CANNOT give you a precise release date on a patch that is this sweeping, for the exact reason that they had to push back TBC expansion. Developement is a processs. It is developement. You do your best to make a release date, but ultimately, it comes down to the reliability of the software and its readiness. If it isnt ready, its not released. Do not think for a second that Blizzard wanted to miss the holiday shopping season entirely for their release. Your claim is simply uninformed and misleading.
Secondly, you paint a picture of PvPers that isnt really truthful either. less than 1% of server populations actually achieve raink 11, 12 or 13. The highest eschelons are experienced by only a very small number of players. Blizzard has stated in the past that the old honor system you described was not conducive to the general populace's PvP experience.
Additionally they claim that the INTEND the top end pvp gear to be accessible by ALL players, not soley those college students who band together to play a single account 24/7. I cannot believe you would discourage encouraging all levels of PvP play to 'mix it up'.
The battle grounds servers are experiencing record highs in play. Players who previously had no chance to casually earn desired rewards for PvPing have a whole new world opened to them, and they are taking full opportunity. If you were at all the PvP enthusiast you claim, I should think you would be extatic over the inclusion of a much more broad base of players. It is completely refreshing to play games now, because you no longer run into the 'hardcore groups' over and over and over. You do still meet them, but they are always peppered with some even matched challenges.
Overall, making flat rewards for time spent on PvP only makes sense for players of all types. Equating the change to BWL as a sudden game sweeping punishment only shows that you were poorly informed on the situation, because it only negatively affected those top 1% of people who were even going for the high ranks, and of them, only the ones, like yourself, who never read the announcements or message boards regarding a game you spend so much time playing.
The new system has breathed life into a frustrating and nonfunctioning PvP system. People who would never have considered PvPing are now regulars in the PvP battles. At the end of the day, that is always a good thing. Regardless of your feelings of betrayal at the time you feel wasted.
Personally, if you wouldnt PvP for the love of PvP, regardless of the rewards (like in Unreal tournament, or Counter Strike) then you probably would have whined about the changes. But if you simply like the competition of PvP, you would see the benefit of millions of more opponents in your battle fields. Blizzard is doing a FINE job, of including the masses in the struggle.
Less QQ more Pew Pew.
An interesting article but, I cannot fathom the biased and seemingly misinformed nature of the article as a slam on PvPing in WoW.
My first instance is that the changes were dropped on unsuspecting players who had no idea they were coming.
Posted 11-14-06
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/patchnotes/test-realm-patchnotes.html
And here 11/28/06
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=51145118&sid=1
You imply that the changes were made veritably with out notice. Historically, any patches that are on the PTR (public test realm) are implementend within 1.5 months depending on the scope and complexity of the patches.
If you have any interaction with software developement you will realize that they CANNOT give you a precise release date on a patch that is this sweeping, for the exact reason that they had to push back TBC expansion. Developement is a processs. It is developement. You do your best to make a release date, but ultimately, it comes down to the reliability of the software and its readiness. If it isnt ready, its not released. Do not think for a second that Blizzard wanted to miss the holiday shopping season entirely for their release. Your claim is simply uninformed and misleading.
Secondly, you paint a picture of PvPers that isnt really truthful either. less than 1% of server populations actually achieve raink 11, 12 or 13. The highest eschelons are experienced by only a very small number of players. Blizzard has stated in the past that the old honor system you described was not conducive to the general populace's PvP experience.
Additionally they claim that the INTEND the top end pvp gear to be accessible by ALL players, not soley those college students who band together to play a single account 24/7. I cannot believe you would discourage encouraging all levels of PvP play to 'mix it up'.
The battle grounds servers are experiencing record highs in play. Players who previously had no chance to casually earn desired rewards for PvPing have a whole new world opened to them, and they are taking full opportunity. If you were at all the PvP enthusiast you claim, I should think you would be extatic over the inclusion of a much more broad base of players. It is completely refreshing to play games now, because you no longer run into the 'hardcore groups' over and over and over. You do still meet them, but they are always peppered with some even matched challenges.
Overall, making flat rewards for time spent on PvP only makes sense for players of all types. Equating the change to BWL as a sudden game sweeping punishment only shows that you were poorly informed on the situation, because it only negatively affected those top 1% of people who were even going for the high ranks, and of them, only the ones, like yourself, who never read the announcements or message boards regarding a game you spend so much time playing.
The new system has breathed life into a frustrating and nonfunctioning PvP system. People who would never have considered PvPing are now regulars in the PvP battles. At the end of the day, that is always a good thing. Regardless of your feelings of betrayal at the time you feel wasted.
Personally, if you wouldnt PvP for the love of PvP, regardless of the rewards (like in Unreal tournament, or Counter Strike) then you probably would have whined about the changes. But if you simply like the competition of PvP, you would see the benefit of millions of more opponents in your battle fields. Blizzard is doing a FINE job, of including the masses in the struggle.
Less QQ more Pew Pew.
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