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More PS3's than 360's?

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January 1, 2007 11:44:18 PM

Ok, so I was at the Best buy near me yesterday... and guess what? They actually had more PS3s sitting on their shelves than Xbox 360s. And the guy who worked there said theyre having a hard time selling the PS3s

More about : ps3 360

January 2, 2007 12:28:06 AM

I heard that about the $600 ones. $100 for wifi is probably not worth it. nvidia seemed surprised when few were buying their 8800 gtx graphics cards. it's not unlikely.
January 2, 2007 12:52:41 AM

Well they actually had 5 $600 ones and 7 $500 ones.
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January 4, 2007 7:48:27 PM

Yeah... PS3 launch has been a big, fat disappointment so far. Everything I'm reading is saying that this gen of games gets it's arse handed to it by Microsoft's offerings (I read an interview by MS people where they said they were going to try to stay one step ahead of Sony with their games). But, I have some hope that the PS3 will offer some better games in the future (even though I will never buy one at least it would be good for the people that got stabbed just to get one).
January 8, 2007 3:58:35 PM

Quote:
Yeah... PS3 launch has been a big, fat disappointment so far. Everything I'm reading is saying that this gen of games gets it's arse handed to it by Microsoft's offerings (I read an interview by MS people where they said they were going to try to stay one step ahead of Sony with their games). But, I have some hope that the PS3 will offer some better games in the future (even though I will never buy one at least it would be good for the people that got stabbed just to get one).


eh, most of them failed to sell their consoles on ebay and returned them to the stores, causing an excess of surplus and no interested buyers. A lot of the PS3s that sold on ebay were gyped by the buyer because it was a dummy account made by bitter people who wanted to hurt the scalpers. No buyer, console got returned.
January 8, 2007 4:42:33 PM

Well that's a suck/suck situation. Get shot and then get burned. Maybe the next console launch will be tamer?
January 8, 2007 4:46:11 PM

We can hope, the PS3s flopped and the Wiis oversaturated the ebay market. Not many people profited from this console generation.
January 8, 2007 5:37:41 PM

Thank goodness. I'd hate for this to be the start of a trend, as ebay wasn't a driving force in the last generation. Though I shudder to think what detterents would come from the big players to prevent a repeat incident.
January 8, 2007 10:45:07 PM

you have to realize though, that the people at ps3 have taken this into account... most consumers and actually just the American way of thinking is so short term... the ps3 was never supposed to overwhelm the market at its opening. The japanese never intended it to out sell the wii in 2006 ... however bleak the situation looks for ps3.. they will outdo the 360 and wii in a matter of 4 years... why?

1. blueray - as the technology of gaming and movies moves toward this new generation... the games for ps3 systems for incur about 1000% profit... are you reading this?. ... A 1000% profit... as opposed to the 200-700% profit of other systems therefore in the long run when people have the systems they want and are no longer buying systems but new games.... ps3 will far outsell (in profit) the competition hands down.

2. expandability - the amount of visual graphic improvements possible is quite limited to disk space/hd space for both the 360 and wii.. this is not a problem for the ps3 as its 5 year plan already has the prospects for EVEN better graphix and gameplay registered in its plan...

3. loyalty of customers/game makers - the ps family just like any other console family has its line of loyal followers... the 360 has the halo heads/madden heads... wii has the zelda series and the smash brothers craze... and ps3 will have... final fantasy, devil may cry series, winning eleven, metal gear solid, etc etc etc etc....

what am i trying to say here...? basically that ps has developed too strong of a following in its games and a loyalty to the creators (square enix back in the day, etc etc) for them to flop... yes its already 2007 but let's not forget... while we talk with hindsight of whats happened... around 100,000 people at the ps office have done years of research to forsee this happening... and they still released the system at the same time as wii..

their aim is not for instant domination but its of trust in their product and the faithfulness of their past customers....

let's not be so shallow as to look at the current maybe 2 month old figures... and shake our heads at ps... watch as in 4 years the tables will most likely drastically turn...

jae
mlb
January 9, 2007 1:49:52 PM

Quote:
you have to realize though, that the people at ps3 have taken this into account... most consumers and actually just the American way of thinking is so short term... the ps3 was never supposed to overwhelm the market at its opening. The japanese never intended it to out sell the wii in 2006 ... however bleak the situation looks for ps3.. they will outdo the 360 and wii in a matter of 4 years... why?


umm, they have been saying that it will in fact have unbelievably strong sales early on. what are you basing this on? Pure conjecture?

Quote:

1. blueray - as the technology of gaming and movies moves toward this new generation... the games for ps3 systems for incur about 1000% profit... are you reading this?. ... A 1000% profit... as opposed to the 200-700% profit of other systems therefore in the long run when people have the systems they want and are no longer buying systems but new games.... ps3 will far outsell (in profit) the competition hands down.


This is banking on the idea that blueray will win the next media war, and even then, what are you basing that 1000% profit off of? I've actually read that the profit margins for PS3 games, due to more expensive media and difficulty with development, will be narrower than previous, not wider.

Quote:

2. expandability - the amount of visual graphic improvements possible is quite limited to disk space/hd space for both the 360 and wii.. this is not a problem for the ps3 as its 5 year plan already has the prospects for EVEN better graphix and gameplay registered in its plan...


how will more disk space effect graphics? That makes no sense. The storage space affects how many save games you can store without extra storage and how many downloaded games you can store, but it has no effect at all on graphics. Maybe you are thinking RAM, which the 360 has twice as much of over the PS3.

Quote:

3. loyalty of customers/game makers - the ps family just like any other console family has its line of loyal followers... the 360 has the halo heads/madden heads... wii has the zelda series and the smash brothers craze... and ps3 will have... final fantasy, devil may cry series, winning eleven, metal gear solid, etc etc etc etc....


Yes they have some good developers in their corral, but there is little that can stop those developers from bailing ship. MS owns most of their top developers, as does Nintendo. I know several playstation fans who have turned their back on Sony as a result of the PS3. This point is a weak one.

Quote:

what am i trying to say here...? basically that ps has developed too strong of a following in its games and a loyalty to the creators (square enix back in the day, etc etc) for them to flop... yes its already 2007 but let's not forget... while we talk with hindsight of whats happened... around 100,000 people at the ps office have done years of research to forsee this happening... and they still released the system at the same time as wii..


Lets not forget that if the system doesn't sell early on, then few people will have the system and therefore developers will not produce for the system, which means fewer sales of the system later on, which means fewer people own it, which means fewer developers will develop for it. Long sighted approaches to the console market die early. That is what happened to every other high dollar console that ever came out.

Quote:

their aim is not for instant domination but its of trust in their product and the faithfulness of their past customers....

let's not be so shallow as to look at the current maybe 2 month old figures... and shake our heads at ps... watch as in 4 years the tables will most likely drastically turn...


I'll give you waiting 6 months for better numbers, but if the PS3 has not established itself better in 6 months, then developers will start bailing out or making more cross platform games.
January 9, 2007 6:41:24 PM

japanese forums and homeland sites i guess... youre right, none of my claims are really supported in any american journal or anything... but you have to realize that business is different in japan... i've read the articles about developers jumping ship to 360 cuz its easier... but no one says a jump in technology is ever easy... cassete tapes to cd players.... wav to mp3s... though to younger ones seem like the technology just switched if you look at the trend it took a good while for the consumers to cling to the idea... and now look... those same trends are now household staples... (ok so cd players are out cuz of mp3 players... etc etc... ) but u get the idea...

the japanese OF COURSE said they were expecting to get big out the start.... what kind of company pr would allow them to say different? The big point of the marketers is that they want people to think they need the ps3 now! and whos gonna think that if they say "oh.. we expect it to be slow... but it'll pick up..." no company in their right mind (disclaimer: with such a large world media coverage) would EVER state that... but in knowing the trend of such companies i can predict that ps3 will not be a flop at all...

but you are right... only time will tell =)

thanks for the intelligent response ^^
^ this isnt sarcastic... just incase someone would think so... its sincere.. =)

jae
mlb
January 10, 2007 12:07:32 PM

I will be buying one, and most gamers like me that like consol RPG’s will be buying one too. I will of course be waiting till a game worthy of a purchase is released before doing this and most other people who like games like Final Fantasy and Metal Gear will too. The consumer is not stupid, just small percentages are and this is where most PS3’s have sold too currently.

Right now, and I am sure almost all of you will agree with me on this. The PS3 cannot offer me anything more than my 360 can, that is of course not to say that the tables will not turn in the future, as I am certain they will.
January 15, 2007 5:28:22 PM

Interesting to read this insider information (he must have an inside information source) telling us that Sony actually INTENDED to have poor release sales numbers. Kudos to you for torturing that information out of an actual Sony exec! :roll:

anyways, big surprise. it's got nothing on the xbox360 so far which has a year head start, and though I want neither, I will be nothing but happy if Sony crashes and burns on this in the long term. They are an arrogant company, and strongarm consumers without concern for what they want.

go Nintendo! Appealing to all of us long-term gamers being able to download our favourite classics for a reasonable price, and even appealing to older gamers who have never touched a console! Finally meeting their company objective from the beginning, which was to make a FAMILY entertainment system. They have gone one step further, even making it a SOCIAL system encouraging friends to get together!
January 15, 2007 10:17:17 PM

I don't appreciate the sarcasm... i didnt say they expected poor release...i said that they have taken into account the probability that it wouldnt sell like crazy. please don't use ur impatience to put words into my mouth... they havent even done too shabby... is it poor opening quarter? sure... but i'd say 1 million units sold before the new year is not exactly "oh let's give up on ps3" either... please hold your sarcasm for another site... :roll:

jae
mlb
January 16, 2007 6:19:46 PM

Quote:
I don't appreciate the sarcasm... i didnt say they expected poor release...i said that they have taken into account the probability that it wouldnt sell like crazy. please don't use ur impatience to put words into my mouth... they havent even done too shabby... is it poor opening quarter? sure... but i'd say 1 million units sold before the new year is not exactly "oh let's give up on ps3" either... please hold your sarcasm for another site... :roll:

jae
mlb


They didn't sell a million units. They shipped a million units by year's end. Big difference.

There are tons of PS3s sitting on shelves around here, and not one Wii. That doesn't bode well for Sony. With game developers seeing where their money can come from, would any developer want to spend money on a system that is still on shelves, or on one that is selling out the minute they hit the sales floor? Even those fools on eBay are finding out that they can't sell their PS3s for the outrageous prices, and some aren't even selling for retail prices now. Can't say the same for the Wii though.

Sony has to do something to push their console, and I don't believe that they can afford a price cut, since they are losing somewhere close to $200 a unit right now. They can only hope for a "must have" game to arrive, and soon, or they'll be in dire straits this year.

Here's a link of an analyst's prediction of the PS3 sales:
Red Herring article

Here's another article (more Blog) that collected statements from various developers and resources. One of the worse statements coming from Gabe Newell of Valve:
Quote:
"The PS3 is a total disaster on so many levels, I think It's really clear that Sony lost track of what customers and what developers wanted. I'd say, even at this late date, they should just cancel it and do a "do over". Just say, "This was a horrible disaster and we're sorry and we're going to stop selling this and stop trying to convince people to develop for it""

Games Blog

Take it for what you want, but again, it doesn't really bode well for Sony.
January 16, 2007 6:33:50 PM

Quote:
the japanese OF COURSE said they were expecting to get big out the start.... what kind of company pr would allow them to say different? The big point of the marketers is that they want people to think they need the ps3 now! and whos gonna think that if they say "oh.. we expect it to be slow... but it'll pick up..." no company in their right mind (disclaimer: with such a large world media coverage) would EVER state that... but in knowing the trend of such companies i can predict that ps3 will not be a flop at all...


Ok I'll quote your words. Above, you indicate that they could have said if it were not for marketing, "oh... we expect it to be slow... but it'll pick up...". I realize you are not quoting someone's actual words, but you make a HUGE assumption there about the company's position/thoughts.

Your post was full of assumptions of what the company is saying/thinking, and what they REALLY say/think behind closed doors. My sarcasm was in response to this post which was totally void of any information, but rather full of conjecture.

Of course this is just a forum and not a published article, so you can throw out all the guesses and assumptions you want. However, expect that others will take the same liberties to reply with sarcasm and/or disagreement with your point of view.
January 16, 2007 9:54:52 PM

youre right... guess i was just feeling like being a big baby at the moment of the retort. sorry ... no hard feelings but my opinion stands... i dont believe its that far of a reach to assume that a multi-million or billion dollar company would have done its research on the effects of ebaying and competition faring with the wii...

i could be giving them too much credit but i'd still like to believe that just like the trend with any big shift in technology(blueray) the important thing was patience... and it's been 2-3 months since ps3 has hit the market? I guess i should have been wiser with my choice of words... but thats a forum right?

thanks for the opinions and comments... hopefully in 6 months i'll start another post called "i told you so" hahaha jk

appreciate all the replies =)
good to know the community is alive and kickin even if it means i'm proven weak in my arguments

jae
mlb
February 1, 2007 5:33:34 PM

OK well i'm not sure about this. But i read somewhere that as of Christmas 2006, after just over a month after launch, that PS3 had just as many systems sold as Xbox360's identical launch period. (so like a month after 360's launch). If anyone has links (no unbacked info or opinions please) supporting or disproving this statement, i would like to see it. (I am at work, so i dont have access to many game related sites) It would be interesting to compare the two in that respect. because comparing current xbox360 games to current ps3 games, is like comparing ps2 games at the time of xbox's release to their release games.....YOU CAN'T DO IT. Give the developers time to release the quality games. Both consoles stand a great chance at becoming the next gen console winner. Lets face it though, in next gen terms, (HD, image quality, etc) Wii doesn't hold a candle. But they do take the cake for intuitive gaming! Now if casual gamers take over the gaming industry, Wii will win the sales contest and be the ultimate console....but as long as enthusists control the industry, Wii is just going to stay as that innovative game system everyone remembers that changed a portion of the industry.
February 2, 2007 11:31:19 AM

Quote:
OK well i'm not sure about this. But i read somewhere that as of Christmas 2006, after just over a month after launch, that PS3 had just as many systems sold as Xbox360's identical launch period. (so like a month after 360's launch). If anyone has links (no unbacked info or opinions please) supporting or disproving this statement, i would like to see it. (I am at work, so i dont have access to many game related sites) It would be interesting to compare the two in that respect. because comparing current xbox360 games to current ps3 games, is like comparing ps2 games at the time of xbox's release to their release games.....YOU CAN'T DO IT. Give the developers time to release the quality games. Both consoles stand a great chance at becoming the next gen console winner. Lets face it though, in next gen terms, (HD, image quality, etc) Wii doesn't hold a candle. But they do take the cake for intuitive gaming! Now if casual gamers take over the gaming industry, Wii will win the sales contest and be the ultimate console....but as long as enthusists control the industry, Wii is just going to stay as that innovative game system everyone remembers that changed a portion of the industry.


wii is the only "next gen" console. xbox360 and ps3 are more of the same with prettier pictures. If they come up with great new games power to them, but then it's the games themselves which are "next gen" and generate the success. as far as the console itself, you will get used to the HD picture quality very quickly. Once you've played on it for a month straight, the HD will look like standard definition, because that is what you are always seeing! PC's resolution has increased dramatically over the years too, does that mean that new games are all better than old games? Certainly not because of their resolution, but rather because of great ideas like internet multiplayer, new perspectives, ability to use vehicles, and the list goes on. arguably, there are some classic games which are just as good, with FAR worse resolution in PC games.

If you don't personally like the wii control concept, then I could understand your disinterest certainly. however, I strongly disagree with any suggestion that a console is not "next gen" without fancy resolution and pretty pictures. I saw a PS3 racing game in a store the other day playing in HD, beside myself playing excite truck on the Wii. I felt the PS3 looked moderately better, but there was a lot more interesting stuff going on with my screen than theirs, and I was much more "in to" the game with my physical movements.

Don't let the media and marketing convince you that anything not "HD" is bad and inferior. You do realize "HD" resolutions have been around in PC's for years right? now they're just giving 3 or 4 different resolution levels the "HiDef" label (720i, 1080i, etc). It's really not as special or new as it seems. I am more pissed off that they are so non-standardized, to the point where I am losing interest. I am not sure I could buy a LCD tv/plasma with all my needs, able to look OK for analog cable, 420p Nintendo Wii, 720i/p broadcast and commercials, and 1080i/p movies, with coax, component, composite, svideo, hdmi, digital in+out audio ports AND the soon to be required HDCP copyright protection.

even if I found a TV with all of that stuff, then I still need an external cable/satellite box to watch HD TV? that's retarded. cable boxes are ancient technology, they went out of analog cable MANY YEARS ago. get the damn decoders back into the TVs already. leave the recording capability in a vcr/dvd/blueray/hard drive type device. Why can't it be simplified like that THE WAY IT USED TO BE??? because of greedy Hollywood pissing off their customers.
February 2, 2007 1:06:21 PM

If your talking about "Next Gen" being just controller movement being put into games, then you have no idea what 'next gen' means. Like i said, it's a super neat idea and hands down the Wii is the most innovative system to date. Your view of Hidef is a rather uneducated one. Your comparing a computer signal to current hi definition. Wow. What a misjudgement. So i guess your arguing that you can't tell the difference in a game like fear between 800x600 and 1920x1080? Or the difference between regular dvds, (720x480p) and blu-ray dvds? (1920x1080p) Hmm. Comical. Quick math - standard dvd = 345600 pixels (720x480) vs bluray dvd = 2073600 pixels (1920x1080). That's SIX times the pixels. And if you knew anything about pixels. Pixels = sharpness/quality/clarity. The more pixels the more detail. Period.

Your comparing a Wii game (480p) at the consoles best quality possible, to a ps3 game that isnt even starting to utilize the hardware (720p of a possible 1080p). The quality of the ps3's games in a year or so, will be up to 2.25 times better than it is right now.

If controller movement is next gen, then i guess ps3 tapped that keg. Sixaxis brought an idea and slowly introduced it to the market. Some say thats good, some say bad, who knows. I find it neat that i can smack a guy upside the head in CoD3 just by shaking my controller. I guess a new dvd format (hddvd + bluray) isnt considered 'next gen' to you. But to me, better picture quality and far superior sound quality is next gen to me. So i guess having a memory card reader and harddrive in your console so you can save your pictures to view on your 90" projector screen, isnt next gen? Wireless controllers with bluetooth 25 foot range, and rechargable batteries built in, isnt next gen? being able to 'add on' a high def dvd player, isnt next gen? quit being so closed minded. Wii = most intuitive system ever made, but thats as far as it takes it. It's a gamecube with a new style of controller. Oh yea, and to back that statement up more, about 80% of Wii's games right now, are remakes of others that dont even have all the functionality they used to (anyone read that game save issue?)

Maybe i'm biased because im not lazy, and am healthy. Pardon me but why do i play games? to get lost in a fantasy world, or to kick my friends butt in fightnight. If i wanted to bowl....i definately wouldnt think about turning on a game console...i'd probably say to my friends...lets go bowling. haha. sorry just seems funny.

No you don't 'get used to' HD quality. Go buy a sharp 52" LCD with 1080p, hook it up to a nice upconverting dvd player or bluray player, watch it for a month, and tell me you dont notice the good quality. Maybe your talking about how once you get used to it, it becomes a standard to you, and anything less is inferior...who knows.

Dont get me wrong, i dont have disinterest in the wii. If you read my post properly. I said it was the most intuitive thing ever in consoles. And how it will capture the whole 'casual' gamer market. But like i said, casual gamer markets do not make the industry, hardcore gamers do.

Oh and a note, my tv (52 sharp 1080p) does do all what you said (except the look good for analog, but what tv does?) Maybe you should pay more attention to the tv market if you play to use it in your argument, because your whole rant on HD and cable boxes....guess you've never heard of cablecard, or over the air HDTV (which is abundant in the states, but not much in canada yet) TV's do have decoders....get with the times.

I could go on, but why? Please don't take this as a flame or anything. I actually enjoy debating.
February 2, 2007 6:23:01 PM

I realize your post is no flame, I also appreciate the opportunity to debate.

I think part of the problem here is that you and I have different objectives for our game consoles. Personally I cannot afford any (large screen) HDTV anyways, but the ones in the price range I have looked at have never included all of the ports, inputs, etc I mentioned. I am actually glad to be wrong in this case, that there ARE some tv's available with all the functionality I would want. I appreciate you setting me straight there. However, I could not even afford the console to support that resolution anyways, so I'm WAY behind what I would need. :) 

HOWEVER, I am deeply frustrated with the fact that lower-cost alternatives (let's say a 42" for example), never seem to have all of these ports. I will withold absolute judgement on that, because I have not gone to a professional store yet (not a big box store) and asked for this, so perhaps a good brand name tv in my price range might be available with most (or all) of these functions.

I am glad you mentioned two things. Lack of almost any over the air HDTV in Canada (therefore making those tv tuners useless as I understand it), and also the cable cards. I am unwilling to pay the very high premiums for current HDTV availability in Canada. I feel the prices should not be ANY higher, but I could live with a low price. Due to the cost of digital cable with the "packages" I would be forced to purchase, for now I am stuck on old analog and downloading the shows I want to watch on my PC. I find it totally unreasonable how much the prices have increased for TV broadcast in the past 5 years or so, and am waiting while holding my breath for the day when I can pay for streamed HDTV over the internet, while only paying for the channels I WANT, hopefully while finally avoiding the horrible Canadian content rules (horribly limiting our available content).

I have heard of this cable card technology, but I did not think it was available yet. My understanding of this technology, is that it should be able to receive HDTV input directly from my cable company's coax in my house, thereby removing the need for a cable box? If that is the case (not just referring to free over the air which is virtually non-existant for me), I am immensely happy they are coming out.

I do understand that if you did become accustomed to HiDef movies, tv, etc, than inferior resolution would be very noticeable and distracting. However, I feel that video games are CURRENTLY somewhat immune to that problem. The reason I feel that way is because of limitations on graphics technology. Just today I was watching a demo of a PS3 basketball game in a Best Buy (dont know what game sorry), and though it was obviously high def with really nice reflections off the court, etc, the characters still look quite cartoony and move around strangely to my eye. Until games are generally quite close to true to life rendered movies (like FF7 Advent Children or better for example), I doubt I would really miss the resolution alone, when moving back and forth between HD and non-HD consoles (unless we're talking something more drastic like an Atari vs PS3). WoW is the perfect example of this where the graphics are really far below a number of PC titles now, and yet a LOT of people play those high-end titles AND WoW, going back and forth and enjoying both.

From this perspective of graphics alone, I do not feel the difference is that significant. Although the other features such as media center capabilities, Blue-Ray/HDDVD drives, hard drives, etc do make xb350 and ps3 stand out quite a bit, I do not feel that they are next gen GAMING consoles, but rather trying to implement technology I'd rather see better executed by a full-function HTPC (none of which I would be fully happy with at this point).

I DO recognise that the concept is interesting. I DO want a practical living room HTPC with excellent gaming capabilities. I feel both of the consoles currently trying to do so, fall short in some areas of both. I think Nintendo has done a good job focusing on only one aspect, which is gaming, while I believe the other two are not doing quite as good a job with the gaming aspect alone. My opinion on this may be pre-mature, because there are not a large number of Wii titles yet. However, I guarantee I'd have an easier time inviting friends to my home to play Wii, than I would for PS3 or Xbox360. Of course with those systems your friends could watch HiDef movies instead, but I have a projector and PC set up for that with a 5.1 receiver. It's not hidef, but it will be, and I'm not in that much of a hurry. :) 
February 2, 2007 7:29:33 PM

Your opinion is far from being pre-mature on the fact that nintendo is focusing on gaming more than the other 2 consoles. You are absolutely corrent that Microsoft and Sony have deviated from the gaming, to absorb some other aspects of the gamers life. But, right from the get go, that has been their said intention, so i can't knock on them for doing that. Honestly, it's great marketing strategy. It attacks a wider base of consumers.

I agree with you on how bad i wanna see RPG's look as good as something like advent children did. (By the way, i'm the self proclaimed biggest FF7 fan ever to exist haha) Truthfully though, i believe some of the RPG's to come out, (or even action games like the new metal gear solid) will reach the realism we are both looking for. I do not for a second, think that Xbox will reach that level though. I belive their media is holding them back. Until they can use their HDDVD addon to play games, they will be held back from the ultra high resolutions needed to look THAT good. Nobody realizes just how much space high definition takes up.

I would like to combat one of your points. The whole WoW vs new games. WoW (which i do occasionally play, no level 60's though, i have a job a girlfriend and a life haha) is meant to look more cartoonish and fantasy world based. It's tough for people to visualize a fantasy world that looks like a current movie does. I think the developers are smart to keep the graphics in that state of frame.

Besides that. I think agree with almost all of your points. I'm kinda glad how this turned from what looked like a potential flame war, to an open discussion. It's too bad all forum users weren't as mature as you are.

I myself run 2 HTPC's. One hooked up to a 32" LCD and one to hitachi's new hi-def projector, and one hooked up to the 52" LCD. What part of Canada are you from? I'm in Sask. I used to work at a non big box store electronics place, so i've had the chance to attend trainings and everything from manufacturers to let me learn what i need to about tvs. It was a great 2 years of experience.

I must ran away from work now and attack this weekend. Hope to hear more from you. Take care.
February 2, 2007 11:47:36 PM

Quote:
I will be buying one, and most gamers like me that like consol RPG’s will be buying one too. I will of course be waiting till a game worthy of a purchase is released before doing this and most other people who like games like Final Fantasy and Metal Gear will too. The consumer is not stupid, just small percentages are and this is where most PS3’s have sold too currently.

Right now, and I am sure almost all of you will agree with me on this. The PS3 cannot offer me anything more than my 360 can, that is of course not to say that the tables will not turn in the future, as I am certain they will.


I figured ps3 might be doing well as an rpg platform, but if you look at all the up coming games the 360 seems to have a more promising line up of rpgs... and I mean come on, there hasn't been a good final fantasy since 7 & 8... all real ff fans know that... and I have no faith in the japanese to fix the franchise... for some reason they always seem to ruin good things... don't even get me started on sonic.
February 6, 2007 7:01:40 PM

I am not convinced that HDDVD or Blue-Ray media are really required to contain a Hi-Def capable game. I am far from an expert in these matters, but my understanding is that many of these games consume a great deal of space with great-looking pre-rendered trailers and videos as well as the game itself. I think that a hidef game could probably easily fit on a single DVD, because the DVD just contains the code to tell the video card to generate the images with x number of pixels etc, simply with lines of text code. I'm sure there is more code required to generate a hidef picture, but I doubt it's so significant that no HD games could fit on a DVD (except perhaps due to extra content like pre-rendered videos etc).

If I'm correct, these pre-rendered videos could even be stored on a seperate disk (dvd or hddvd) for optional use with any game if they are really wanted. Of course that would not be as convenient, but generally most companies will always try to cater to the lowest common denominator, rather than excluding some of their potential market.

I feel that WoW is probably intentionally cartoonish, but moreso to allow simpler pc's to play the game, and therefore generate more revenue. Think of movies like LotR or Chronicles of Narnia, which are both very realistic looking and extremely fantasy-geared. Regardless of the reason though, the point is the graphics are quite poor to some other standards, and yet people play it. I feel that the most popular and profitable video game ever developed, lends credence to the fact that hidef content is not a requirement to take a gaming crown. :)  Otherwise, I believe Oblivion would be more successful than WoW.

Personally I have a self-built projector made of an overhead projector with a 15" LCD panel on top of it, with an audio-only receiver and 5.1 speaker set I got for christmas hooked up via optical audio output. This is used primarily for movie viewing, though I could see some wii games being fun on it where you don't have to stand up (due to my projector's design limitations, standing would put you in the field of projection).

My other tv is a 28" 5 year old CRT. I'd love to get a flat panel, but have not been able to put away the necessary money yet. One day!! :) 
February 7, 2007 7:04:28 PM

Quote:
I am not convinced that HDDVD or Blue-Ray media are really required to contain a Hi-Def capable game.


Its not the 360s games fit on a dvd +dl about 8gb space, granted these are 720p, 1080i games. non of the 360s games are on hd-dvd you only need the addon player for hd-dvd and that only for movies, the ps3 dont have to be either but sony kind of marketed there ps3 as a blu-ray player they can just drop it that would be admitting they lost the hd war.
February 7, 2007 7:20:36 PM

Quote:
I am not convinced that HDDVD or Blue-Ray media are really required to contain a Hi-Def capable game.


Its not the 360s games fit on a dvd +dl about 8gb space, granted these are 720p, 1080i games. non of the 360s games are on hd-dvd you only need the addon player for hd-dvd and that only for movies, the ps3 dont have to be either but sony kind of marketed there ps3 as a blu-ray player they can just drop it that would be admitting they lost the hd war.

What he meant was that he is not convinced that you NEED the drives for a hi-def game. Has anyone actually been able to read a PS3 game yet? any facts on how big the games are at this point? I wouldnt expect them to be that big, its only 3 months into the release. I do recall ps2 games being released on CD (unreal tournament even). Now, 5 or so years later... games top out at 8 or 9 gigs. Lets do some math...8.5 gigs is 1200% compared to 700 mb (per cd) ...That means the quality and space required has increased that much...even if ps3 games are only using 1 DL dvd....it will grow.

Oh ya....if you or ANYONE has ever doubted blu-ray....i do recall some people and websites posting articles that hddvd has won the war....well please take a look at this article, and tell me if Sony didn't market their system 100% properly.....

http://www.dailytech.com/Bluray+Sales+Surpass+HD+DVD+Ne...

Gracias Senor.

*Edit* missed a few things
Also, maybe i misunderstood your post...but dont think anybody understood that haha.
February 8, 2007 10:23:17 AM

I have no doubt that games in the future will come out which will need more capacity, but you sidestepped one of my points that usually pre-rendered videos take up the largest amount of space (especially in those games you mention topping out around 8 or 9 gb now). Since you did not mention a specific game, I would not be able to verify that for the specific example you are citing, but I'm sure you can see this is a possibility.

What I'm talking about, is that if xbox is careful to exclude such fluff like pre-rendered movies, special features and previews etc, the hddvd drive will probably not be a requirement for a while (for games specifically). by the time it really is, I'd be willing to put money down that new purchased consoles would come by default with an HDDVD drive, and that the external unit will have come down in price significantly.

a personal friend told me microsoft is planning a new model under the xbox360 name, but he did not have any details. It's pure conjecture, but since PS2 did this with a newer model, I don't see why xbox would not do the same thing later to include the hddvd drive when it's becoming a gaming REQUIREMENT.

I realize that's not as convenient as already having the blue-ray in the ps3, but you end up delaying purchase of the external hddvd drive till it's more expensive and when you really NEED it, spreading out the purchase cost over years.

oh and btw, don't get too excited about the early 2007 sales numbers for blue-ray. every ps3 that sold came with coupons for blue-ray movies, and quite a number of them were sold in December/January to people who are willing to pay $600 for a console. It's logical to assume a large number of those people are simply using the coupons right away, and would have bought a movie or two anyways since they have the money. Clever marketing by Sony no doubt, but hardly conclusive about the future of the format wars.
February 8, 2007 11:55:11 AM

I agree with you that a large part of games like RPG's and FPS's can be pre-rendered movies...but when the game is tellings its progressing story, i wouldnt mind some hot eye candy. Having it on a seperate DVD is UNACCEPTABLE....who wants to swap a disk everytime you finish a level of Call of Duty 4? or everytime you beat an epic battle of final fantasy XIII?

I already covered the new model of xbox360 and what is supposed to be done with it i think, everything at this point is speculation except they have confirmed they will be moving to the 65nm technology, meaning cheaper production (more processors per wafer, less heat) and a much quieter dvd drive (finally!), and adding in an HD-DVD drive will completely combat microsofts advantage of being able to lower the price of their machine. Also, having games REQUIRE the HDDVD drive is definately a bad thing. Would i want to have to purchase a $200 addon or a completely new version of the system, JUST to play a few of the 'larger' games? Most definately not. I'd be willing to bet microsoft won't do that to its current buyers, they'd be pretty pissed off. Also, i don't believe the addon has the ability to send and recieve data like a regular drive, i could be wrong, but i'm sure it's been slated to be JUST for playback of movies, and no development has gone into making it into something different.

Torque, if you would have read the full article, it stated that the movies included in the PS3's were not even taken into account, in fact, no bundles for either HDDVD or BLURAY were takin into account. That is just sole purchases of the movies. That's the only 'coupon' ps3's came with from the factory, any other coupons would have been from the retailers if any, but i didnt see any in saskatchewan or on ebay.
February 8, 2007 12:19:53 PM

now here's a dilemma. I have to agree with you, I honestly really enjoy pre-rendered video content, and a media with more capacity allows for more of that (which I love, like in Blizzard and Squaresoft's past games). One option could be to release these games as a DVD, but also with a seperate HDDVD disk included. If you have the HDDVD addon drive, the pre-rendered videos can be loaded from the HDDVD, and the game entirely from the dvdrom.

Yeah, that'd piss some people off and they'd probably either buy the add-on drive then or not buy the game. That is only the educated purchaser though, and probably not most of the people who own the console.

It's just something I would propose as an option. At this point I doubt it would happen (and may not be possible without at least a firmware upgrade), which would mean PS3 has a lot more potential for nice pre-rendered videos. However, if it did happen, that would mean an Xbox game (8gb) then has another 20gb? to play with for extra features, videos, whatever. In the end the result could actually be better, but you'd have to buy the add-on drive (which would hopefully be cheaper by the time this happens).

sorry about my misunderstanding with regard to ps3 coupons etc. My access to information is a bit limited, as most of my time on this forum and reading these kinds of articles is done at work, and my internet access is extremely limited (I could not visit your link). Personally, I have no particular preference for either media besides my personal hatred for Sony as a company. That has nothing to do with their media though.
February 9, 2007 9:06:28 PM

I hate sony as a company and I don't like bluray as a technology.

The reason is that while they are more scratch resistant, if there is a scratch they are much more likely to fail. I look at my games and CDs that I have had for more than 3 years and almost all of them look like they lost a fight with a roll of sandpaper. I don't like the odds on losing bluray media so I prefer to more robust HDDVD
February 14, 2007 2:40:33 PM

PS3 is getting it's arse kicked by Wii and (to a lesser extent) X360.

In Japan, Wii has outsold PS3 by a 3 to 1 margin! Also, EA has announced it is allocating major resources to developing games for the Wii. EA bet big on the PS3... and has been bit hard in the arse.

I am a high end gamer, BUT my family (esp. kids) and friends really want me to get a Wii because it is so darn "fun."

I will get a Wii for group entertainment purposes, and rely on PC for hardcore extreme gaming.

The Wii is the "must-have" system right now... that much is apparent and undeniable.

Now if Apple merged with Nintendo... dang that would be a combination of two amazing Consumer Brands. (for the record, I'm not an Apple fan, but I do recogonize their amazing brand strength).
March 13, 2007 12:47:25 PM

yes wii has won the console battle but anyone noticing the trend? i dunno but looks to me that the fight isnt over...many gaming analyst are seeing 360 vs playstation... sure people have to buy the console first but I think with the release of littlebigplanet and future titles from old faithfuls from the ps family line... i'm seeing the ps3's slowly dissapear off the shelves... and the wii's still being added to the shelves.. (probably cuz everyone has 1 now =P ) but regardless... I think this next quarter will be interesting to see who takes the share...

jae
mlb
March 13, 2007 12:57:22 PM

Quote:
yes wii has won the console battle but anyone noticing the trend? i dunno but looks to me that the fight isnt over...many gaming analyst are seeing 360 vs playstation... sure people have to buy the console first but I think with the release of littlebigplanet and future titles from old faithfuls from the ps family line... i'm seeing the ps3's slowly dissapear off the shelves... and the wii's still being added to the shelves.. (probably cuz everyone has 1 now =P ) but regardless... I think this next quarter will be interesting to see who takes the share...

jae
mlb


Actually, I see zero Wii's on shelves and plenty of PS3s... I've been trying to get a wii through retailers for months.

Don't believe me... go to Walmart.com. Plenty of PS3's in stock, nadda on Wiis.
March 13, 2007 1:01:52 PM

I'm in Ontario, Canada. All of my local best buy stores get around 25 wii's per week, and there is a lineup in the store every Monday a few hours before they arrive... 4 months after the release date. I only got one by heading straight there after work and waiting in line until almost 7, and I finish at 4pm.

I still can't find a second nunchuck controller anywhere, and want to buy 2 more wiimotes as well.

This system has me considering games I never would have looked at twice in the past, such as Warioware. Everybody wants to come over to my place to play Wii.
March 17, 2007 6:39:55 PM

dont like the direction nintendo is taking wit the wii and its crappy hardware, the 360 cant store any high res gfx details because of limited space/their live player hosting sucks. ps3 on the other hand lets the devs choose the type of hosting and its all dedicated or matchmaking servers+better hardware then the 360. honestly that console got maxed out on gow and it even struggles on that game sometimes
March 19, 2007 8:05:39 PM

Quote:
dont like the direction nintendo is taking wit the wii and its crappy hardware, the 360 cant store any high res gfx details because of limited space/their live player hosting sucks.


I love the direction the Wii is going with adequate hardware for reasonable prices and a controller scheme that is intuitive and fun. I fail to see what storage and hosting have to do with an ability to use high res graphics detail. The details are stored on the media, only savegames and downloaded games are stored on the hard drive.

Quote:
ps3 on the other hand lets the devs choose the type of hosting and its all dedicated or matchmaking servers+better hardware then the 360.


once again... what does this have to do with high res graphics? The 360 uses a proprietary solution for its game hosting service because they are trying to merge markets and allow consoles to play against PCs. While I personally do not care one way or the other I find this an interesting effort and fail to see why it is a particularly bad thing that all 360 games have the same matchmaking interface.

Quote:
honestly that console got maxed out on gow and it even struggles on that game sometimes


This sounds like pure conjecture based on little to nothing. Optimization will lead to better and better graphics throughout the console lifecycle. Hell I've had a PS2 lag on Disgaea, that doesn't mean that 2D sprites are the limit of what a PS2 can do.

I swear your PS3 evangelism is downright ridiculous. Why can't you deal with the fact that your console just isn't selling as well and is targeted at a (richer) smaller niche market.
March 26, 2007 8:40:42 PM

Quote:

I swear your PS3 evangelism is downright ridiculous. Why can't you deal with the fact that your console just isn't selling as well and is targeted at a (richer) smaller niche market.



Man why cant you leave them be, Wanting facts .......this is the internet there are no such thing as facts. Let them be happy defending there waste of $600....ignorance is bliss afterall.
March 26, 2007 10:26:33 PM

This might be a good suggestion, but in a Category as slow as Games, and a section as slow as Console Gaming, you gotta take what you can get...
March 27, 2007 3:29:13 PM

For the record, it's almost April... and I still cannot get a Wii at any of my local retailers.

PS3 = no problem
March 27, 2007 4:04:44 PM

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/26261/Record-breaking-165000-...

http://www.n4g.com/ps3/News-31881.aspx


http://www.chart-track.co.uk/index.jsp?c=p/software/uk/...

Not bad for an over-priced console that has apparently sold barely any units, or is all the above lies...!!!

And what exactly is wrong with a company actually having enough consoles to meet with demand & then some, instead of too few like nintendo.... giving the touts on Ebay something to gain from?

I am pleased that those selling PS3 on ebay are getting it tight, couldn't happen to a better bunch of wanks-stains..
March 27, 2007 5:08:02 PM

Quote:
For the record, it's almost April... and I still cannot get a Wii at any of my local retailers.

I had to pull in a favor from an old co-worker to get a Wii before Christmas. They still aren't on shelves here, either.

Though I do have a bit of good news. I ordered some Wii-motes directly off of Nintendo's website (sorry, consoles are not sold through their website). It gave me the usual, "Due to demand blah blah expect delays blah blah." But they still came three days later. :D 

Now I have a Nintendo of America building a little over an hour from my house, so your mileage may vary. As I said, you can't order a Wii from the site, but I figured that that might be a good place to start for anyone else with an accessory shortage.
March 27, 2007 5:10:05 PM

a uk high sales number for initial release is not exactly a surprise. because they are crowding shelves in NA, does not mean that people who have been waiting for months in the UK are not going to buy it when finally released.

You're right, having sufficient numbers to meet demand IS a good thing, I would love if I could actually find a second nunchuk for my wii. There's a delicate balance to be reached there. However, the PS3 has been overstocked for so long it's obviously a failure at least from their expected numbers, as it should be at least marginally hard to obtain if they were trying to strike the balance between paying for more production capacity and providing enough units for consumers to buy. The sales numbers continue to speak for themselves though.

I confess, the God of War commercials look really amazing to me. I would be very impressed if they are all in-game play and not cutscenes (I do not know which is the case). I would like to try that game, but playing that by myself is by far less interesting to me than playing Wii sports or Wario with a group of people I invited over to my house.

(yes I know GOW is a ps2 release, it is just the only mild influence for me to consider a Sony console, when I would never buy a Sony product on principle anyways).
March 30, 2007 9:49:32 PM

Quote:
I hate sony as a company and I don't like bluray as a technology.

The reason is that while they are more scratch resistant, if there is a scratch they are much more likely to fail. I look at my games and CDs that I have had for more than 3 years and almost all of them look like they lost a fight with a roll of sandpaper. I don't like the odds on losing bluray media so I prefer to more robust HDDVD


Ok why do you hate sony and Beta is not an acceptable answer (doubt you would use that one anyway, just making sure). I never understood why some people hate companies there are reasons yes but people site one stupid reason that does picture the company as a whole. Like I hate Apple for multiple reasons.

1. They say there operating system is the best and most secure (for the last half of 2006 Symantec Corporation said that Windows XP was the most secure operating system on it's own. Apple's OSX Tiger was 3rd.)
2. The purposely program Itunes to run sluggishly and hog system resources on PC's while it runs amazingly smooth on some crappy 4 or 5 year old Imac. For this to happen you have to be the most horrible programer around or doing it on purpose.
3. Ipod's aren't that great and I'm tired of hearing about it.
4. Everyone is already saying that the Iphone is going to be this amazing phone even though Apple has never made a phone and dwho pays $600 for a phone, well morons do and and atleast 70% of the people in the world are morons.

Ok enough with Apple my point is the Playstation 3 is a safe bet and with Blu-ray software currently raping (yes i consider outselling three to one raping) HD-DVD a sure bet. Also HD-DVD is not more durable whoever is saying that has absolutely no proof or back up. so HD-DVD and Blu-ray are the same Blu-ray can just hold more data so why not. Crap I've written so much I forgot my other points, but I'm sure I will make them later when my mind isn't on other things, thanks for reading.
April 2, 2007 11:39:07 AM

you actually need us to give you reasons for hating sony? ok here you go

1. DRM. Sony is a huge supporter and pusher of DRM technology, which punishes paying customers more than pirates. I have to sit through like 5 warnings (which I CANNOT skip, on MY PAID FOR dvds) on every dvd I BUY largely because of them and their coporate associates. Plus, HDCP technolody is forcing us to replace LCD computer monitors and even tv's if we want to have 720p+ HD output which one has PAID FOR with a blue ray player and movie but cannot see without some crazy copyright paranoia hardware.
2. exploding laptop batteries. Need I say more? How long has battery technology been around, that was just stupid.
3. Proprietary. Boy do I hate that word, and Sony is king. All kinds of things they make from MP3 players to cameras to even disk media now is proprietary Sony technology, meaning you can't use a memory stick in any non-Sony camera etc.

and the biggest one....

4. Installing HIDDEN ROOTKITS on your computer as hidden DRM/spyware which you are NOT AWARE OF until you read about it on the internet, which also leaves vulnerabilities in your OS. Thanks for that, from a PURCHASED PRODUCT.

Even if the PS3 was the best product in this market (and it is'nt in my opinion), I would not be considering it. I know I'm forgetting some of my reasons, but I'm sure you get the point.
April 2, 2007 5:13:39 PM

Thanks torque, I appreciate your dislike of Sony especially that you have reasons and they did lose a few points from me when they did that with the last Foo Fighter's CD I bought.

Another point since someone took the Blu-ray sucks opinion I would like to know why it sucks and why HD-DVD is better and the anti-scratch thing is some koo-koo yip-yap that people who are crazed fan boys are making up so that isn't a viable reason.
April 5, 2007 12:04:45 AM

Well Torque79 beat me to pretty much the majority of reasons I was going to post.

Here are a couple more.
Sony has tried to stiffarm their proprietary media IP into every new media generation and even tried to invent new media generations to stiffarm them into. Every time (except debatably BluRay) they failed miserably.

Sony heads up almost every mislead assault from the MPAA and the RIAA. They are one of the more outspoken opponents of file sharing and open formats.

Sony Consistently screws stuff up and yet for some inexplicable reason the Japanese government consistently bails them out when they sink too deep. They are incompetently managed and seem to act like they are at war with their own customers. They are a big evil company that needs to be removed like the malignant tumor that they are. They don't even pull in a significant positive revenue stream to make up for their despicable behavior.
April 5, 2007 8:17:00 AM

Wow so much bitter, bitter hatred towards a company, I haven't experienced so many problems from a single company before...

But I do remember Microsoft getting alot of flak in previous years, but heck better an American company dominates the world than a japanese one eh, oh such cynicism :oops: 
April 5, 2007 5:35:01 PM

Oh, don't get me wrong. I hate Microsoft too. But Sony is just completely unredeemable.
April 11, 2007 2:54:13 PM

Walked into my local Gamestop yesterday...

PS3's plentiful... no Wiis.

Wii's are sold as soon as they come in the door... and you can't even reserve!!!
April 11, 2007 7:56:33 PM

well yeah i like the wii too but it's gonna die soon cause it just doesn't keep up hardware wise but it is fun so if you ask me I think they're getting people hooked with the cheap one and then they're gonna upgrade to a new better machine during mid generation of sony and microsoft.
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