??Motherboard recommendations??

Kathlin1963

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I'm new to the community and love this site.

I have one major question though. I am currently planning on building my first computer (owned three pre-builts). I'm lost on Motherboards. It seems the more I read, the more confused I get. I've read all the articles in Tom's.

I know I want Intel P4. I'm looking towards 845G chipset, but not sure. I've read all the articles with the features, et al. My question is which one would YOU recommend? Or is it a personal thing?

Thanks in advance.
Kathy
 

lhgpoobaa

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personally im not up with P4 motherboards... but what you get depends on how much money you have and what level of performance you desire.

currently the cream of the crop is the 850E chipset, supporting PC1066 rdram and 533mhz bus P4 'B' cpu's. such performance will cost you though.


<b>Before visiting THG i was a clueless noob. Now im still clueless, but look at my nice title!<b>
 

chuck232

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:eek: You love this site?? :tongue:

N E ways, to the real subject.

Well, it depends. What are gonna be doing with the system? The 845G is good for the extra RAM dividers. I wouldn't really suggest using the actual integrated graphics though. The 845E is also good if you're looking to overclock.

The 850/E is for RDRAM, which is usually the fastest of all the P4 chipsets. The only thing is RDRAM seems to be going by the wayside and RDRAM is still pretty expensive. If you need the ultimate performance, get the 850/E.

The SiS645DX mobos are really good at stock, since they have actual support DDR333. Overclocked they're pretty good too. Although, it doesn't have the PCI/AGP lock down.

If I were you, I'd wait for SiS648. It should be out near the end of this month. It'll have DDR400 support and will be able to lock down the PCI/AGP buses.

As for specific mobos:

845E - ABIT IT7 MAX
- GigaByte GA-8IEXP
- ASUS P4B533-E

845G - EPoX EP-4G4A+
- ABIT BG7 (seems to be ok...)

850/E - ABIT TH7II (good overclocker)(850)
- P4T533-C (the non *-C* is expensive and uses a different type of RDRAM, 32bit instead of 16bit Dual-Channel. The RAM is quite rare still)(850E)
- GigaByte GA-8IHXP (850E)

SiS645DX - ASUS P4S533 (only mobo in this category really worth getting)

SiS648 - ASUS P4S8X
- ABIT SR7-8X (both these mobos are not yet fully retailing, although some people have gotten the ABIT one)

Well, I'm gonna be building a P4 system soon too. I'm looking to get either the ABIT SR7-8X or the ASUS P4S8X. If I can't get either of those, I'll probably get the EPoX EP-4G4A+. Be aware, I'm making my decision based mainly on overclocking features and ability. You should see what you need this comp for.

<i>Past mistakes may make you look stupid, but avoiding future ones will make you look smart!</i>
 

lhgpoobaa

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actually... what are <b>YOU</b> looking for in the way of features? how tight is your budget? what do u plan on using this PC for? is DDR or RDRAM important?
If you can give us more details we can narrow down our reccomendations.

<b>Before visiting THG i was a clueless noob. Now im still clueless, but look at my nice title!<b>
 

JaeSun

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i am also in the same situation you are in ... so far, here is where my setup stands:

Shuttle AS45GTR (SiS 648 Chipset)
P4 2.53Ghz 533FSB
512MB Corsair XMS DDR 400 PC3200 CAS2 Ram
ATI Radeon 9700Pro /or\ Leadtek nVidia NV30 (core)
Win98SE/Win2000Pro
Silver Chieftec Aluminum Server Case w/ Window
2 Western Digital Caviar Series 40GB

honestly, for the features, you cant beat the Shuttle AS45GTR .... plenty of positive reviews, and decently priced. $120. it hasnt been released yet, even though it should be very soon.

<A HREF="http://www.spacewalker.com/english/mainboard_detail_info.asp?number=196" target="_new">http://www.spacewalker.com/english/mainboard_detail_info.asp?number=196</A>

RAID, USB2.0, AGP8x, official DDR333 (unofficial DDR400. rumoured to work very well when JEDEC approves DDR400 specs), Firewire, 1GB transfer between north and south bridges, Realtek ALC650 on board, Serial-ATA. the other abit and asus boards dont quite have all the features this have. while some may say that the average user might not use it all, its always good to have, and could mean less upgrades in the future.

as for DDR and RD Ram, RD will always be faster. but as someone said, RD is heading out the wayside. its too expensive, and for the average user, you wont see many performance differences. you can almost get the same performance with DDR400 (knowing that the DDR400 is really Overclocked DDR333, so being that when JEDEC approves specs for DDR400, itll only get faster.)

i mean, unless, you have to have the computer now, then id suggest waiting for the SiS648 and the Shuttle boards.

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nja469

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Ok, as she said the more she reads, the more confused she gets. Terms like "memory dividers" and "PCI/AGP lock down" are not helping. She wants specific recommedations and no jargon! So I'll take a stab. All prices and items come with 2-day fedex and are on sale at googlegear, a reputable retailer.

Board: For the best performance and overall stability, and a decent manual get the <A HREF="http://usa.asus.com/mb/socket478/p4t533/overview.htm" target="_new">AsusTek P4T-E </A>. The board is available for <A HREF="http://www.googlegear.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=240223" target="_new">$148.</A>

256MB of Samsung PC1066 RDRAM will run you $120, get 2 sticks if 256 won't cut it. A single stick of 512MB PC1066 is too expensive still, and it makes more sense to save about $125 and get two exact sticks.

As for the CPU, a 2.26Ghz P4 with 533 FSB would be a good idea as it would take full advantage of the board and RDRAMS' bandwidth. It's reasonably priced @ $234.

All together - about $500 for the top of the line board, great RAM and processor. Not too bad really! Goodluck with whatever you do!

"Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one"
 

JaeSun

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well, even said, id go with the Shuttle AS45GTR ... should be hitting stores soon ..... most feature rich of boards for its price and what it has ....

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nja469

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Yes that board looks promising actually, but you never know how a new launch will go. Sometimes there are unforseen issues until mass release. Although Shuttle is a good board maker and more than likely it will go smoothly, in fact I have a Shuttle in my system. Typically though when recommeding to other people I go with boards that have been "in thw wild" so to speak, that way any issues have had a chance to be addressed in a BIOS flash. Plus until DDR-II comes out, RDRAM is still, in my opinion the way to go for the bandwidth hungry P4, especially the 533MHz FSB model.

"Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one"
 

chuck232

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256MB of Samsung PC1066 RDRAM will run you $120, get 2 sticks if 256 won't cut it. A single stick of 512MB PC1066 is too expensive still, and it makes more sense to save about $125 and get two exact sticks.
Um....... 2 things. You do realize you have to have 2 stick of RDRAM to run on that board? (P4T-E) Also, it's really not as good as the TH7II anyways.

$500 yes, but you still need a video card, sound card, case, PSU, monitor, speakers, and a whole lot of other stuff.

<i>Past mistakes may make you look stupid, but avoiding future ones will make you look smart!</i>
 

Cooj

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Actually, You can use a dummy chip instead of using 2 sticks of RDRAM. At least I know you can do that with some of the special P3 boards. I dunno if P4 boards can do that but I'm assuming they can.

Cooj
 

Cooj

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With Regards to Crashman's Post
"850/E - ABIT TH7II (good overclocker)(850)
- P4T533-C (the non *-C* is expensive and uses a different type of RDRAM, 32bit instead of 16bit Dual-Channel. The RAM is quite rare still)(850E)
- GigaByte GA-8IHXP (850E)"

Personally, I am also on the hunt for a new P4 board. I Currently I have 1 stick of 256mb of PC800 RDRAM. I am still quite split on the decision of the mobo.

In all honesty I am unsure as to what are the differences between the Asus, Abit and Gigabyte boards. Only difference I have seen is the abit TH7-II RAID has 4 ide channels. Are there any differences between the 3? Performance wise? Overclocking wise?

Some info would be great =)

Cooj
 

chuck232

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I don't know about PIII RDRAM stuff, but for the P4, you have to have 2 sticks of matching RAM for it to work.

As for the difference, the ABIT is the original RDRAM chipset and is probably one of the best o/cers. The ASUS is real reliable and the GigaByte has the most features.

<i>Past mistakes may make you look stupid, but avoiding future ones will make you look smart!</i>
 

AMD_Man

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Actually, You can use a dummy chip instead of using 2 sticks of RDRAM. At least I know you can do that with some of the special P3 boards. I dunno if P4 boards can do that but I'm assuming they can.
On the Pentium 3 yes, because the i820 chipset used single-channel RDRAM. Current Pentium 4s use dual-channel 16-bit RDRAM or single channel 32-bit RDRAM. With 16-bit RDRAM on the P4, it always has to be installed in pairs from the same manufacturer.

:wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
 

Cooj

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Ah!

Thanks for the update =) My friend is using a single stick + dummy stick but I just remembered he got the expensive 32bit stuff. Punk.

Since we're on the subject, what's the difference between the 16bit and 32bit?

Cooj
 

chuck232

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Basically right now, the only mobo that supports it is the ASUS P4T533. What the 32bit RDRAM is 2 16bit RDRAM put together. So it's single channel, but is basically the same as 2 16bit RDRAM modules. It's more expensive and quite rare, but it performs a bit better than DC RDRAM, probably by ~2-5%.

<i>Past mistakes may make you look stupid, but avoiding future ones will make you look smart!</i>
 

Thrymm

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Im in the same boat. I used to build P2/P3 systems when it was easy with the BX boards. Now I have been dying to upgrade and this weekend is a show. I know I want a P4, and I want to go with DDR Ram. What I would plan to use it for is mainly gaming, and overclocking was always fun as well.

I have all the other goodies, hard disk, Geforce4 ti 4600, and good sound. Any recommendations on board/P4 chip(between 1.9 and 2.3ghz since I dont want to break the bank on CPUS, but board is ok since I would like one which could support higher CPUs in the future)?
Thanks!


<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Thrymm on 08/16/02 10:45 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
 

chuck232

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Ok... the ABIT IT7 MAx is real good if you can do without your PS/2 and serial ports. It only has USB and Firewire. If not, then the ASUS P4B533/-E is also a real good mobo.

Also, as for CPUs, you'll want a northwood core, not a willamette. The NW has 512K L2 cache and is made on .13u process, while the willy has 256K and is made on .18u process.

How much are you looking to pay? A 1.8A will give you good o/cing ability for ~$150USD at on-line vendors. I'm not sure what that tech show will give you ... usually they're pretty good though. Also, a 2.26B would cost you ~$240USD at on-line places. That also o/cs very well. I'm looking to get it and try and take it to 3GHz.

Now, what I'm doing is I'm gonna try and get an IT7 and a 2.26B and some Samsung RAM (although the newer DTL chips suck at o/cing...). You should look for some good RAM if you want to overclock. Mushkin high performance and Corsair XMS RAM are both pretty good for o/cing. Also, if you can get your hands on Samsung DDR400, get it. It's probably one of the best kinds of RAM you can get. Comes with 4ns RAM!!*slobber**drool*.... It's only rated at CAS3, but that's really conservative. It should also be pretty cheap too, compared to the Mushkin and Corsair.

<i>Past mistakes may make you look stupid, but avoiding future ones will make you look smart!</i>
 

Thrymm

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Thanks Chuck,
I was on Abit's site and see the IT7 Max and Max2, Max2 seems to have the PS2 ports. Although I could care less, its only a keyboard and my mouse is already USB. The kicker that really confuses me now is the DDR ram. Abit shows it supports DDR200/266, so is that really the DDR400(PC3200)?

I like the sound of the 1.8A chip to get to 2.4ghz, just tight on the cash or I would try the 2.26B!

Thanks for the info, since I havent been involved with the P4, or Athlon's Ive been out of touch and back to that newbie feeling again!
 

chuck232

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Yeah, the IT7 MAX2 is also not yet out :tongue: .

Yes, it only has dividers for DDR200 and DDR266 <i><b>at stock speeds</i></b>, but with o/cing, the sky's the limit.

For exmaple, a P4 1.8A @ 133MHz FSB would give you 2.4GHz. At that speed and using the 3:4 divider, you'll get DDR354.

Another exmaple, a 2.26B at 166MHz FSB would give you 2.82GHz. Then using 3:4 ratio again, you'd get DDR443. Now that's high bandwidth!! Also, with the 2.26B, you're already at 133MHz FSB, so using the 3:4 ratio right there would get your DDR354.

Now, at stock speeds, really you're only supposed to get DDR200 and DDR266, but with overclocking you'll need the better RAM.

<i>Past mistakes may make you look stupid, but avoiding future ones will make you look smart!</i>
 

chuck232

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EDIT: Double post.

<i>Past mistakes may make you look stupid, but avoiding future ones will make you look smart!</i><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Chuck232 on 08/16/02 01:29 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
 

Thrymm

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Great thanks Chuck for clearing it up for me. Makes much more sense. I'll go for the IT7 Max, P4 1.8A @ 133mhz and look for the Samsung(I know this wont be at the tech show, but perhaps I can order it off one of the vendors on Pricewatch).

Last stupid question of the day: WTF is PC3500 then? DDR433?
 
Check out the Abit IT7 with either DDR 333 or DDR 400. I have the board with DDR 333 and it's great. has all the stuff i'll need later. such as firewire, and usb 2.0 ...

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=9933" target="_new"> My Rig </A>
 

chuck232

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PC3500 is DDR433, but never get that. It's crap. It's just DDR266 or DDR333 o/ced. Not good quality at all. Instead, Corsair, Mushkin or Samsung are better.

That 1.8A might be able to do 150MHz FSB too, with some vcore bumps. Then you'll be able to run DDR400 :smile: .

<i>Past mistakes may make you look stupid, but avoiding future ones will make you look smart!</i>
 

Thrymm

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Thanks again Chuck,
I dont mean to bump this baby but you are a great help! I should be buying this in a few hours :)