SIS648!!!! HELP to make a Decision

[basquet_57]

Ever since I read the specs of the sis648 chipset, I`ve wanted to get it. That chipset pulled me away from getting an intel850-E.

But I have read a good deal about how I should NEVER buy a new mobo/chipset. That it would be a pain while the bugs are fixed.

Any suggestions as to which mobo I should get... or how long should I wait for this mobo to be stable?

I want some DDR400 support WITHOUT overclocking. I am planning on using this system for at least the next couple of years. So I don`t want to shorten its lifespan.

USB 2.0 could be nice too. RAID option and onbaord LAN would be welcomed. I`ve been thinking about the Abit it7 max.

LEt me know your thoughts and opinions.

thank you

 

[nichomach]

For what it's worth, even a chipset that's been out a while cannot be guaranteed to work in every configuration; I'd find a review site you can trust and see what they think of the actual shipping product - not reference boards, not samples, actual shipping product. Have a look at Anand's review of the Abit board, esp. stress testing:
<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.html?i=1684" target="_new">Anandtech ABIT SR7-8X</A>

 

[basquet_57]

How come there is basically no difference between DDR333 and DDR400?? and both running CL2.5.

This sounds like any DDR333 with CL2 will be faster then... than DDR400.

The board is feature less... which is kind of disappointing.. hopefully they will come out with a MAX version of it.

ASUS is out there also..
I might just go with DDR333.

thanks

 

[Oracle]

One word: FSB.
FSB is 266Mhz (DDR), so no matter the modules used above PC2100, only extremely marginal performance gain will be achieved. Processed data sent back from the RAM do not exceed a speed of 266Mhz, even if the RAM processed it at a speed of 333Mhz.
Only one solution to this FSB bottleneck: overclocking.


<font color=red>A platform is not an oil rig.</font color=red>

 

[BigBiggist]

In case your interested Asus has launched the Asus P4S-8X SiS 648 chipset. Soyo and Shuttle are also coming out with their boards. You will have to overclock to get the DDR 400 rating or change the memory timing or whatever. Or at least I believe that the chipsets only support DDR 333 because their is no standard yet. It should still run on DDR 400. You should also check out the Corsair XMS Series PC-3200C2. This is a 512 MB DDR 400 module that runs at CAS 2.0. If you do want feature rich you should check out the Asus P4S-8X, it is not being sold yet but it should be out be the time Intel starts to cut prices on Sept 1st.

 

[chuck232]

One word: FSB.
FSB is 266Mhz (DDR), so no matter the modules used above PC2100, only extremely marginal performance gain will be achieved. Processed data sent back from the RAM do not exceed a speed of 266Mhz, even if the RAM processed it at a speed of 333Mhz.
Only one solution to this FSB bottleneck: overclocking.

P4A have a bandwidth of 3.2GB/s and the P4Bs have 4.2GB.... I think you're thinking of the AXPs.

<i>Past mistakes may make you look stupid, but avoiding future ones will make you look smart!</i>

 

[noko]

I was dissappointed with the review of the Abit 648 board too. I will wait for an ASUS review using the SIS 648 chipset. Combined with a Radeon, a 2.0ghz a P4, 512mb corsair DDR400 should work pretty good, that is if the chipset is stable.

 

[Pettytheft]

I think Abit Rushed this board and it is meant only as a budget solution. It was released a couple of weeks prior to any other 648 board out there.

Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.

 

[JaeSun]

This sounds like any DDR333 with CL2 will be faster then... than DDR400.

ahh, you forget that any DDr400 memory right now is really overclocked DDR333? there is no official DDR400 ... there wont be until JEDEC approves the specs for it, which is expected to happen sometime by early next spring ....

and as far as the SiS648 chipset .... if your looking for a good priced one, and yet, feature packed, go with the Shuttle AS45GTR. it was reviewed here, and on other sites (like anandtech) and was given good reviews, along with good reviews with SiS648 chipset. Shuttle comes with RAID 0,1,0+1 .. USB2.0, Serial-ATA, ATA133 support, Firewire Support, supports P4 northwood socket 478 400/533FSB .. only thing is there is no onboard LAN ... but for all these features, and for only around $120-$130, you cant beat it .... it officially supports DDR333, but was intended to officially support DDR400, but since there is no spec for DDR400, they didnt throw it in there.

if you want official DDR400 support, VIA made one with DDR400 support, but its for AMD processors. if your wanting to stick with SiS648 (which it sounds like you do), then wait until the end of sept when the SiS648DX comes out. that is supposed to support officially DDR400, and even have added on features!! i mean, think about it, the fueatures it has already, yet, they gonna add more!!

reason many boards arent jumping the gun for SiS648 is mainly cuz of the fact SiS648DX is coming out in sept ....

id go for that ....

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100 Character Limit Sucks!!<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by JaeSun on 08/21/02 00:47 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[Crashman]

You are completely wrong, it's 533 for intel, not 266. Intel uses QDR technology, not DDR like AMD. So 133MHz is 533 for Intel and 266 for AMD. So the system bus issue does not address why DDR400 is not outperforming DDR333. I'd say it's a BIOS issue with memory timing.

Remember that DDR400 only has the bandwidth of PC800/i850, and that there IS an advantage to be had with using faster PC1066 on the i850E, proving once again that the bandwidth IS needed, just not properly used.

<font color=blue>You're posting in a forum with class. It may be third class, but it's still class!</font color=blue>

 

[Crashman]

VIA makes the P4X400 also, but it's the same old trash as the P4X333. VIA=Garbage, always has.

<font color=blue>You're posting in a forum with class. It may be third class, but it's still class!</font color=blue>

 

[Crashman]

Screw it, isn't that also when the 655 should hit the street, with Dual Channel DDR?

<font color=blue>You're posting in a forum with class. It may be third class, but it's still class!</font color=blue>

 

[Oracle]

Yeah, I know. I had AXP in mind when writing that post.
I became aware of it when I re-read that post this morning.
Sorry about that!
I'll pay more attention in the future!


<font color=red>A platform is not an oil rig.</font color=red>

 

[JaeSun]

SiS655? i think that is in oct-nov? DDR-II is still not even here yet, not until early next spring? releasing 655 with DDR-II support would almost be naive .... unless they changed release dates for them all?

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100 Character Limit Sucks!!

 

[chuck232]

SiS655 is the DC DDR chipset for the P4, no mention of DDRII yet... Just has support for DC DDR333. A very likely thing to come soon.

<i>Past mistakes may make you look stupid, but avoiding future ones will make you look smart!</i>

 

[JaeSun]

oh, for some reason, i thought DDR-II was DCDDR .... my bad ... must have got them confused...

anyways, with DCDDR, it should finally take the RDRam off the throne for highest performance for P4 .... that should be great!

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100 Character Limit Sucks!!

 

[Crashman]

That would be a little redudant, DDRII is supposed to be QDR I think. So if that's the case, they wouldn't need dual channel. Now, the 655 was supposed to be released about the same time as the 658, why it hasn't is anyone's guess, but it just may be that mobo manufacturers are too lazy to design a dual channel DDR board for the P4 since DDRII is on the horizon. After all, SiS has been getting very poor support from mobo manufacturers ever since VIA made those threats against the use of the 735 for AMD.

<font color=blue>You're posting in a forum with class. It may be third class, but it's still class!</font color=blue>

 

[JaeSun]

imagine a dual channel DDR-II .... that would be blazingly fast!

crash, have a link to any story regarding the 735 and AMD?

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100 Character Limit Sucks!!

 

[Crashman]

I don't feel like looking up a link, it was reported at Tom's and a couple other sites, VIA threatened to sanction any companies that produced motherboards using the SiS 735 chipset. Abit already had a board in testing, and both Asus and MSI had one in the works at the time, all three dropped them after the anouncement.

<font color=blue>You're posting in a forum with class. It may be third class, but it's still class!</font color=blue>

 

[basquet_57]

The 655 sounds interesting...

Any of you guys there know the specs of dual channel DDR?

In other words...
How much faster is it supposed to be than regular DDR?

(I have seen in several "review" sites like THG, anandtech, extremetech...etc.. that DDR 333 with CL2 out performs pc800 RDRAM. And sometimes DDR 400 catches up with PC1066 RDRAM... I saw it in ALL the sites.. (just in a few benchmarks though.. but it still seems cheaper).

I might take a look at the ASUS board... It seems pretty good. The Abit was a good board.. but feature less. Maybe if the release a MAX version of it!!!
that would be awesome.

The shuttle board seems pretty good too.. But how could they neglect the on board LAN!!!!! that is just sad.

Hope to hear more inputs.

It seems like all of us are interested in this sis648 board.. So lets keep looking up reviews of the mobo`s to pick the best one to kick butt.


The sis648DX sounds good too.. but imagine when the boards will come out!!! Maybe like in January 2003. If the mobo`s for the sis648 are not available and the chip HAS been released like for a couple of months!!

How longer will it take to the other mobo manufacturers to include the DX chipset???

Let me know anyone if they see a high performance DDR400 working board. (sis648 of course).
The gain right now seems marginal. I wouldn`t pay the extra like 100 bucks to get DDR400 to get like a 1 or 2 more frames per second. that would be stupid.

maybe the BIOS upgrade will work.

thank you all who have contributed.
I will keep looking out for the mobos.

 

[basquet_57]

I know that DDR 400 is over-clocked DDR 300. Yet I still have some doubts.
Like corsairs offer of up to DDR433.
Plus its CMXs series. With CL2 and 400 DDR.

Even if it was over clocked, it still would`ve made sense for it to be FASTER than DDR333. I mean at least enough to notice. Not even an expert would notice the difference in speed without some benchmarking software to see the extra second or something. And all for a lot more money. Doesn`t look good.

I am renewing an interest in pc1066 RDRAM. I can get a GIG of it for 500 dollars. Which is a lot of money. But a GIG of DDR400 with CL2 is around 460 dollars. And for 40 bucks.....
The only thing keeping me is my choice of DDR333 that along with CL2 could go for just under 400. Plus the features of the sis648 chipset are just SOOOO much better than those of the intel 850-E.

thanks for the input.

I am going to buy soon though. I don`t feel like waiting and waiting for the new technology...

If we just keep waiting for that "next" chipset or board or whatever we would never buy anything...
as their will ALWAYS be something better coming real soon...

 

[chuck232]

Well, there is starting to be some *true* DDR400 now, such as the Samsung ones. They have 4ns RAM actually, so should do even better.

Ok, 1GB of RAM will cost you a lot no matter what, but at lower quantities such as 512MB, there should be a larger difference.

<i>Past mistakes may make you look stupid, but avoiding future ones will make you look smart!</i>

 

[JaeSun]

shuttle and onboard LAN, yea i was pretty suprised by that. im sure they be integrating it with the SiS648DX boards i mean, in the specs at the shuttle website, it lists 10/100 integrated LAN MAC .... what that is i dunno, but it would see they might have LAN. but from what i look at, and ask around, it doesnt come with it ...

well, from my research, OC ram and true ram can be different, like pretty big differences ... in some benchmarks with DDR400 and SiS648, it showed improvement in speed, but not much, and in some cases, was about the same as DDR333CL2 .....

and as far as samsung, i thought there wouldnt be "true" DDR400 ram until JEDEC approved specs of it? but then, it having only 4ns, what can you expect? i guess maybe the architecture to be different?

while waiting for the best thing will keep you waiting for an eternity, i have no problem waiting for the SiS648DX to come out, i mean, look at all the features it comes with! and a very good price, and with so many other things being released at the same time, its better to wait. dual channel DDR, maybe even release of DDR-II, NV30, by then 3.06 Ghz be released (and maybe even 3.2Ghz?) .... alot of things coming out at same time, so i think it be prudent to wait ..... but thats just imho

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100 Character Limit Sucks!!