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RuneScape Exposed Part 2

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April 2, 2007 6:15:07 AM

In Part 2, we look to see just how responsive Jagex Ltd., the company that owns and runs RuneScape, has been to the complaints from honest gamers and concerned parents.

More about : runescape exposed part

April 2, 2007 12:52:27 PM

Bitch moan bitch moan, same crap we hear from wow and the other hundred or so games, its a game period. if parents cant keep kid under control its their own damn fault.
April 2, 2007 1:26:22 PM

Quote:
Bitch moan bitch moan, same crap we hear from wow and the other hundred or so games, its a game period. if parents cant keep kid under control its their own damn fault.


How is it my fault if you can't control your kid?

I would have no problem with this if the game devs were being honest. But if the article is correct, they advertise the game as one way when it is really another. That is enough to prevent me from subscribing to the game or allowing any family member to subscribe.

It may be a game, but if you don't think kids learn some social behavior from games, you're deluded. Especially if the game is their main parent.
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April 2, 2007 1:48:30 PM

ROFLMAO@@@@@

Seriously, big fat XD deserved for this.

What level are you? What clans have you been part of?

I want to know, because most aspects of this game don't show until endgame.

it's like saying you've played WoW yet never raided.

But seriously, it did crack me up, so cred to you for that.
April 2, 2007 4:01:31 PM

I see only that children are replying, sorry to see. I refuse to quote any of you as you have not made any valid points to counter. One thing you do have to remember is yes, parents must try to have control, but more importantly teach your children control.

Mine is taught to use civility at all times, even on the Internet, where anonymity gives courage to speak your mind.
April 2, 2007 4:09:21 PM

Charles, that was extremely well written and informative. It will serve well to help parents make an informed decision whether they wish their children to play Runescape.

I have included both articles on my blog and emailed to friends, the school divisions and the libraries in town and those on the Internet that I had been conversing with.

Thank you so much for the articles, and for being a concerned parent!
April 2, 2007 5:04:43 PM

Granted, I started playing RuneScape when I was 10 (I'm 13 now, quit in January, the game got boring for me, I had over 1000 skill total and like you said, was making only about 250k an hour and I'm a horrible merchant because of the autoers, so I quit).

Children experiance the same teasing in the real world and in schools, you can't stop it even if you wanted to, it's apart of growing up.

We should raid this game cause it sucks so bad. I used to be obsessed, not addicted, just obsessed with this game. Now I think it is a poor excuse for a MMORPG.

Did I have a good time playing this game? Absolutely. I just shrugged off the noob comments (you do know that the LUL NOOBs are made fun of right, and that when I was level 3, I was insulted, but I didn't really care). I was 10 at that time, by the way.

Children are not as impressionable as adults believe, we are not idiots, and it's a little disgusting to be treated as such. I've used forums since I was 6 years old, and it's taught me a lot about life in general. I've learned how to spell better, use better grammar, gain intelligence in the field of computing (which without using forums as a 11 or 12 year old, I wouldn't have the knowledge I have today).

It was well-written, but your statement overall is false.
April 2, 2007 5:14:48 PM

Quote:
ROFLMAO@@@@@

Seriously, big fat XD deserved for this.

What level are you? What clans have you been part of?

I want to know, because most aspects of this game don't show until endgame.

it's like saying you've played WoW yet never raided.

But seriously, it did crack me up, so cred to you for that.


Did you read his posts in part 1 in this forum? He plays the game with his 2 kids.
April 2, 2007 5:20:54 PM

Quote:
ROFLMAO@@@@@

Seriously, big fat XD deserved for this.

What level are you? What clans have you been part of?

I want to know, because most aspects of this game don't show until endgame.

it's like saying you've played WoW yet never raided.

But seriously, it did crack me up, so cred to you for that.


Classy. If concern about the author's epeen size is your main issue with the article, then from the thread about part 1, his stats:

Level 117 combat, 1838 total levels, 73 million XP.

Props for illustrating his points about the Runescape community, and the MMORPG community in general, though.

LazyDriver's got a good point, in that whether Runescape is appropriate for kids really depends on the character of the kid. That's a decision that ultimately must be made by parents. Charles' point that Jagex is not providing, and is in fact suppressing, honest information to enable parents to make that decision still stands, however.

They're engaged in what amounts to deceptive marketing towards parents, and as long as that's the case, they're not only leaving themselves open to deservedly bad press, they're throwing fuel on the fire of the growing movement toward government censorship of games.
April 2, 2007 5:21:39 PM

Well I certianly agree, being a parent of four, that parents are in the end responsible for thier children, I don't think this is the spirit of the artical. This story is more about the developers of this game don't realy care on doing what it takes to make the game fair and a game for all ages. I have played both Everquest and WoW, but not Runescape, and in both of those there is a lot that has been done to prevent fraud, and luring.
EQ for example has a bazaar for sellers, that allows for player to player buying and selling in a shop like environment. You get warned by the game that you are in a PvP area, not that players can loot the other players anyways.
I think the point I am trying to make here is that it sounds like runescape has some issues that could be fixed and untill they are player be warned. Ohh and your not going to be warned on Runescapes forums.
April 2, 2007 7:20:27 PM

I think the author has a few valid points, but for me this statement sums the article up pretty well.

"the negative elements often ruin the good parts, and this sometimes occurs only after a lot of investment of time that goes to waste."

The author is investing his time and not playing a game. a game is a game, and any time playing them is assumed to be "wasted". if you have spent a thousand hours playing and don't want your time to be wasted, then do something useful with your time like helping the homeless or something. when you're ready to kill some time and relax, then log in to a game. if you spend 1000 hrs playing, then thats your decision, just don't expect the game owes you any return on your "investment".
April 2, 2007 7:43:05 PM

I have two young sons who play Runescape on and off and I have played on line RPGs myself as well (though not Runescape).

I have read the articles but they leave me feeling uneasy. Certainly the experience of my sons does not reflect the way the articles portray Runescape. While some of the complaints against RS may well be justified the same could be said about almost all the RPGs out there (the phrase 'basic problems that they could fix with a simple code change' appear in EVERY on line forum for a game I have ever seen).

Overall my sons have definetely enjoyed RS and found it a positive experience so the articles do not convince me.

I would ask what was the reason for writing the articles? While there are some complaints in there they do not seem strong enought to warrant what is, frankly, quite ferocious condemnation.
April 2, 2007 8:03:24 PM

Here is info from my blog. Charles , should the length be offensive I will gladly remove...let me know.

Here is a sampling of forum posts from those who lured. They are venting their anger that Jagex is now upholding rule 2 , and no longer allows them to lure other players to kill them and steal their items.

The anonymity of the internet is the perfect place lie and deceive. Unless you are playing the game with your child or looking over their shoulder, they can be doing or saying anything they please.

Please also remember, a child's bedroom is not the place to put a computer, be sure to talk often about internet safety and ask your children to behave on the internet as you have asked them to behave in real life. Do otherwise your child's values will be learned from online games.

All of the posts have been added in their entirety, spelling and grammar errors and all:


UP WITH THE PKERS AND LURERS!!!
DOWN WITH THE WHINNING, SLOBBERING 8 YEAR OLD NOOBS

You wish. Mentality of a lurer is "Let's find someone retarted enough to take something of value into a situation they know they can die from." And guess what. It works.
The good lurers, the ones who can actually succesfully lure someone for 10-450M+, are a lot smarter then you are because they can actually convince someone to take something of actual worth. Thats right, if you become a spectacular lurer you can practically make a living off a morons on RS. 100M+ in 5 Minutes? A tenth the risk of Staking and the same reward.
A great lurer, can have a blast on RS with their Lured Phats and Mils. You can stick to your RS "honor" of making money by skills and merchanting. But I'll stick to buying Skills and Rares with the money I made in a millionth of the time it took you, thanks.

I'm not smart? Because I have the correct timing to Special someone when I PK? Because I know how to get first hit in every stake? Because I probably have a higher total at 66 Combat then you do? Because I know how to PLAY THE GAME?
Yes. I lie. I deceive players for their items. I don't scam, nor would I ever, because that IS cheating. But luring in the wild is NOT cheating because you are given a CLEAR warning you CAN AND MOST LIKELY WILL DIE.
I'm a cheating brat. Already argued why I am not cheating, and I'm anything but spoiled so I'm not a brat. I'm just smarter then you are.

Survival of the fittest. (or in this, more like survivial of the smartest. After all, it helps kill off the idiots ingame. Evolution at its finest.

stop crying about everything. the word is not fair. people lie all the time.. for luring all you do is lie and they come to the wildy and you kill them.. your allowed to kill soem one in the wildy.. so there for you are only lieng.. and you are allowed to lie in runescape.

Before the update I used to lure a lot but not anymore *cough*
It teaches players to learn to aboid the dangers of the life
Luring needed skill and not the 'right way' which is repeteadly clicking a tree and then banking like a zombie
Luring needs inteligence skill patience anyway who cares about other people feelings.

And also killing people and make them suffer causes me a weird pleasure ;p
I love the how the humanity suffers.
Heh oh shame good-bye luring we will miss you.

Yes I'm a heartless person I only care for myself and those who I love
I lure for fun It's not my moneymaking way the way the humanity attraction to a game is not things like fishing firemaking or herbloring, normally it goes for the less destructive things like killing and that things and THAT is how the humanity is and will be forever The humanity prefers to do something in the 'dirty' way because we are like that Let me tell you that I never had any succeful attempts on luring but I go for the people who defend it Because all runescape will get is some overprotectived kids which will fail in their life thanks to runescape and they will regret playing forever

I mean Jagex is encouring people to play Runescape their way [by raising their skills and wasting a lot of time on their game] The real way to play was to just to chat walk around runescape do quests with your friends PK... And now these people got an affective love to their items which ain't sane at all A normal sane runescape player would not care if they lose their stuffs or not, unfairness and fariness in a game is ridiculous a game was intended for purely fun Now these people who lose for example rares by these methods will cry a lot and It's a strong hit on them because they spent too much time on working on an account which is not even their propety is Jagex propety Now that's unfair
The point of all that is just people should stop caring for their pixelated items whcih are propety of Jagex

I care because this game company should be spending less time babysitting, and more time doing other things. they are not our parents, they should not have to watch over everything we do. You learn from your mistakes. That's how life works. If you never get scammed or even something in real life, then you'll eventually throw a fit once it does happen. Best it happen when you're young, when it has less of an impact on your life, in game or not.

It's kind of like the United States Prohibition (Banning of alcohol, and Banning of making / distributing it). The moment that amendment wa sput into place, the amount of alcohol consmuption and distribution increased greatly. Notice how they once again allowed it after some time to think. There will be less luring if the warnings are more clear, and probably more luring if it's not allowed. Some people love to try to get away with rule breaking. It's a habit. You're not a noob if you've lured before. You were a follower of a rule, considering luring was allowed.

no, it wasnt scamming until a couple days ago... so it was making money fair and honestly

I really dc about luring, i almost got lured once by a lvl 103 when he asked me to help him with a clue scroll in the wildy at ardougne lever when i was walking by in full rune g. It is kind of the persons fault if they do go in, but idc because im not stupid enouf to fall for it.

why does everyone think that people lure thier own freinds? in some lures they do but not all... thers more than 1 kind of lure... ive never lured a friend, and would never try because i dont make friends with IDIOTS the easiest moneymaking activity out there ( for me and my friends ), not to mention kinda fun... hanging out with friends luring idiots... i do not lure anymore because i dont wanna get banned... and yes i am very dissapointed in jagex for making the rule

I NOW ITS A FO K 1 N 5 RUBBISH RULE ... I REALY DO OBJECT...
I DONT SEE WHY LURING IS BANNABLE BECAUSE THERE WARNED ON THE SIGN B4 THEY ENTER THE WILDI
April 2, 2007 9:05:07 PM

Lol Pauly, you took the extreme example. Very little people think like that lurer, even the other lurers. Like all the other cheaters in the game; they want fast, easy money, bottom-line. That guy seems to be some sort of gothic guy, or going through major teen angst.

In some other games, there is things 2 times worse than luring, not to mention legal and an intended part of gameplay. Before that US law about age, those games were for all ages. Now they are yrs 13+.

Of course, they are not as easy-access as Rs, but a kid 7 yrs old+ with some computer knowledge could download and play it. Pretty much, any kid that is familiar with computers can lie about their age and play ANY game. And pretty much, access to any online content you wouldn't want them to access, unless you put filters. No jokes, my 6 yrs old cousin last summer was talking me about a girl 'bleeding from the vagina' and laughing about it. I was like =O, I couldn't believe he knew those words already. And my cousin is a really normal kid, overprotected by his parents and everything.
So much for protecting the kids from Runescape, we should protect Runescape from the kids. :lol:  :?
April 2, 2007 9:53:03 PM

Sorry I have not had time to participate in the discussion today -- I've been going all out to get an initial version of TruthScape online, which I just did.

It's still in rough form but I wanted to get the content out there: http://www.truthscape.com/html/index.htm

Comments welcomed -- and I'll reply to some posts here either later or tomorrow.

c
April 2, 2007 10:29:18 PM

I have not had a chance to fully read TruthScape online but the title and front page are a bit worrying - I have problems with things that scream I AM THE TRUTH on the front page. Is what you are putting forward not your opinions (valid though they may be) not the absolute and unalterable TRUTH?

To start a discussion by claiming you speak the truth (and thus by implication that anyone who argues with you is lying) is not a good point to begin on. Many of the points you make are, I suspect, valid - but the overall argument that this adds up to an evil game is not one that I personally agree with. I have seen far worse in many other on-line games than the examples quoted - why the huge downer on RS?
April 2, 2007 11:29:57 PM

this guy is so stupid and one sided. Any online game will start trouble. You take a trouble kid who has a drug user mother father will act out. Due to the fact the computer becomes the parent. Then they act out like the other people in the game. Or there Parents.

I would love to point out Any Doom game. Any Battlefeild or medal of Honor. Can we say Gangs?

You can take any Online game. You will see the same problem.

There was one movie where it use the Light small cars. For racing Guess what. There was alot of death due to the movie. Let take Dukes of Hazzards. You know how many cars was Trash for stupid kids acting out a jump on the Show or Movie. We have people beleave what they see so they react doing it. It all comes down to Parents Not showing there kids Movies and games is Not real life.

Let go back and look at the pictures. We have someone who not showing his name. He also not showing facts. You know going your a noob is not a bad word. When people use @ or $ to write a cussword hay that what people have to report.
April 2, 2007 11:39:08 PM

Quote:
RobWright you are so stupid and one sided. Any online game will start trouble. You take a trouble kid who has a drug user mother father will act out. Due to the fact the computer becomes the parent. Then they act out like the other people in the game. Or there Parents.

I would love to point out Any Doom game. Any Battlefeild or medal of Honor. Can we say Gangs?

You can take any Online game. You will see the same problem.

There was one movie where it use the Light small cars. For racing Guess what. There was alot of death due to the movie. Let take Dukes of Hazzards. You know how many cars was Trash for stupid kids acting out a jump on the Show or Movie. We have people beleave what they see so they react doing it. It all comes down to Parents Not showing there kids Movies and games is Not real life.

Let go back and look at the pictures. We have someone who not showing his name. He also not showing facts. You know going your a noob is not a bad word. When people use @ or $ to write a cussword hay that what people have to report.


You do know that Rob DIDN'T write this article right? He just posted the link on the forums like he always does.
April 3, 2007 12:13:38 AM

Fix it. I am use to the cpu page where Most Post on something tomshardware. Where the same person who wrote it. Or the person who agree with Like Core 2 upgrade.

sorry.
April 3, 2007 12:45:14 AM

Quote:
this guy is so stupid and one sided. Any online game will start trouble. You take a trouble kid who has a drug user mother father will act out. Due to the fact the computer becomes the parent. Then they act out like the other people in the game. Or there Parents.

I would love to point out Any Doom game. Any Battlefeild or medal of Honor. Can we say Gangs?

You can take any Online game. You will see the same problem.


As Hergie pointed out, I didn't write the article -- Charles did -- and I'm just the managing editor here. But I'll throw in a couple things here.

First, Atol, have you played RuneScape? It sounds like you have, but I just wanted to clarify.

And second, you make a good point about Doom or Battlefield or any online game have objectionable content and player behavior in them. The difference with RuneScape, as Charles points out in his editorial, is that this MMO is aimed at kids and is purported to be a safe, educational alternative to other games like Doom and WoW.

Well, Charles is arguing that those claims are misleading. And you yourself are stating that online games are trouble. So the premise isn't why RuneScape is worse than other games -- it's not. The premise is, should free online games like RuneScape be targeted at kids when they have the same problems as more adult-oriented games?
April 3, 2007 1:20:26 AM

Quote:
I have not had a chance to fully read TruthScape online but the title and front page are a bit worrying - I have problems with things that scream I AM THE TRUTH on the front page. Is what you are putting forward not your opinions (valid though they may be) not the absolute and unalterable TRUTH?


But , it is true nonetheless. What he is putting forth is information which the game makers refuse to speak about or warn people about, even in the parents guide or to discuss on any Runescape forum. The site didn't scream at me, as he never said that, but i do see your point, to a degree. The site is in its infancy, as you may have noted.

Quote:
To start a discussion by claiming you speak the truth (and thus by implication that anyone who argues with you is lying) is not a good point to begin on. Many of the points you make are, I suspect, valid - but the overall argument that this adds up to an evil game is not one that I personally agree with. I have seen far worse in many other on-line games than the examples quoted - why the huge downer on RS?


My son brought home a Scholastic flyer today. The only offical Runescape guide ever made was listed there...and it said 'for ages 8 and up'. Do any of the games you are speaking of target children? If they do, let me know, and I will campaign as fiercely for change.
April 3, 2007 1:38:18 AM

Quote:
I think the author has a few valid points, but for me this statement sums the article up pretty well.

"the negative elements often ruin the good parts, and this sometimes occurs only after a lot of investment of time that goes to waste."

The author is investing his time and not playing a game. a game is a game, and any time playing them is assumed to be "wasted". if you have spent a thousand hours playing and don't want your time to be wasted, then do something useful with your time like helping the homeless or something. when you're ready to kill some time and relax, then log in to a game. if you spend 1000 hrs playing, then thats your decision, just don't expect the game owes you any return on your "investment".


I'm afraid you have completely misinterpreted that comment. I was not talking about myself -- I was referring to kids who spend months learning the game and saving up for items they want, only to lose it all to a scammer. And yes, this happens ALL the time.

c
April 3, 2007 1:43:19 AM

Quote:
Lol Pauly, you took the extreme example. Very little people think like that lurer, even the other lurers. Like all the other cheaters in the game; they want fast, easy money, bottom-line. That guy seems to be some sort of gothic guy, or going through major teen angst.


Ummmi said post(s)....'they' are venting....'all the posts', meaning that this was a sampling of post(s) I found. Yes they are the extreme examples. The ones which caught my eye. There are hundreds of lurers comments, should you wish to see. There are 5 discussions that I found on tipit, 3 on miniclip, and 4 on zybez and besides the luring/rule 2 game update sticky, i found over 100 lure and luring and scam hits in my forum search discussing luring in several forums.

Quote:
In some other games, there is things 2 times worse than luring, not to mention legal and an intended part of gameplay. Before that US law about age, those games were for all ages. Now they are yrs 13+.


That is exactly why we are trying to tell parents about Runescape so they can know what it entails before letting their children play.

Quote:
Of course, they are not as easy-access as Rs, but a kid 7 yrs old+ with some computer knowledge could download and play it. Pretty much, any kid that is familiar with computers can lie about their age and play ANY game. And pretty much, access to any online content you wouldn't want them to access, unless you put filters.


That is a very valid point. Thanks for reminding parents that they need to supervise their kids online Your last paragraph, which I didn't paste, brings home that issue.
April 3, 2007 1:46:31 AM

Quote:
I have not had a chance to fully read TruthScape online but the title and front page are a bit worrying - I have problems with things that scream I AM THE TRUTH on the front page. Is what you are putting forward not your opinions (valid though they may be) not the absolute and unalterable TRUTH?

It's just a catchy name. :)  But I do believe everything that I said factually is true. Clearly some is my opinion and I am sure that that is rather clear..

c
April 3, 2007 1:50:47 AM

Quote:

Lol Pauly, you took the extreme example. Very little people think like that lurer, even the other lurers.

Oh?

There's a lengthy discussion of luring on the RS forums right now, and I personally have seen over 100 comments very similar to those.

Here are some I saved for TruthScape:
• “There is a warning sign. If you ignore it .....then it's your own fault.”
• “In my opinion, scamming is not an offense. If people are stupid enough not to check the second trade screen, too bad for them. The same goes for luring.”
• “It's not our fault if those people being lured are stupid enough to not realize that they are being lured...” (Talk about getting things backwards.)
• “Why, Jagex, are you taking sides with STUPID people?”
• “If you don’t read [the Wilderness warning], I will kill you, take your stuff, sell it, and laugh at you for crying over your stuff.. point laugh and make you cry some more.”
• (In response to the question “have you ever felt guilt in committing the acts of luring that you have done?”): “Nope not at all. I even lured a player mod once.”
• “Luring is not scamming it’s a fun way of making money.”
• “I feel better knowing I've made someone cry.”
• “I think you’re taking it a little too seriously. There will always be bad guys, no matter where you are. I’m not trying to condone or try to act like I’m doing good deeds, because I’m not. I recognize that luring is dishonest and often harsh, but this is the path I have chosen.”
• “Luring isn’t scamming. It is lying.” (???)
Quote:

In some other games, there is things 2 times worse than luring, not to mention legal and an intended part of gameplay. Before that US law about age, those games were for all ages. Now they are yrs 13+.

Runescape isn't for 13+.
Quote:

Of course, they are not as easy-access as Rs, but a kid 7 yrs old+ with some computer knowledge could download and play it.

With Runescape, the 7-year-old doesn't even need to do that. All he needs is a browser and a net connection. There are kids playing Runescape in libraries and school computer labs because the game is portrayed as being 'safe' and directly marketed at kids.

That's wrong.

c
April 3, 2007 8:04:18 AM

Quote:
First, Atol, have you played RuneScape? It sounds like you have, but I just wanted to clarify.


Yes for the last 5 years. Look Up Atol Rank in the 1890s. I am in clan.

Quote:
And second, you make a good point about Doom or Battlefield or any online game have objectionable content and player behavior in them. The difference with RuneScape, as Charles points out in his editorial, is that this MMO is aimed at kids and is purported to be a safe, educational alternative to other games like Doom and WoW.


The thing with all games. Is they will teach you something. Some might be better some worse. One thing Runescape don't show blood and gore. All you see it Bones and mybe hides. But the game still has a challange. One is to fight Monsters that can kill you. Two Fighting someone in the Wilderness or safer area Dualing arana. Or in my case Skiller.

Quote:
Well, Charles is arguing that those claims are misleading. And you yourself are stating that online games are trouble. So the premise isn't why RuneScape is worse than other games -- it's not. The premise is, should free online games like RuneScape be targeted at kids when they have the same problems as more adult-oriented games?


Read the Rules the game is for 13 and up. Go on Runescape and click Create Account. And click 12 and under. Here what you get. At this time RuneScape is limited to users aged 13 and older. That where it take a Parent to watch over a game. Have the parent read the rules to the child. If the game says 13 or older the parent should go sorry you need to be older. Also The parent should play a demo of any game to see how the game Looks what it can teach a child. At the age 6 to 12 Children do not know right from Wrong. So The interact with games. But that can be seid with any Adult who drinks and deals with Drugs.
April 3, 2007 8:46:47 AM

Quote:
I have two young sons who play Runescape on and off and I have played on line RPGs myself as well (though not Runescape).

I have read the articles but they leave me feeling uneasy. Certainly the experience of my sons does not reflect the way the articles portray Runescape. While some of the complaints against RS may well be justified the same could be said about almost all the RPGs out there (the phrase 'basic problems that they could fix with a simple code change' appear in EVERY on line forum for a game I have ever seen).

Overall my sons have definetely enjoyed RS and found it a positive experience so the articles do not convince me.

I would ask what was the reason for writing the articles? While there are some complaints in there they do not seem strong enought to warrant what is, frankly, quite ferocious condemnation.


I thought EXACTLY the same thing -- it was like he (the author) is crazy or something... makes no sense. so I tried to figure out what his real motives for writing this outrageously ferocious article might be -- maybe Runescape would not advertise on their site? Maybe because it is a game that uses low system resources, and they are heavily involved with high-end system builders? I don't get it at all. It seemed like hatred. It was like he was writing about a different game.

my 2 sons age 10 and 11 and I LOVE this game. We have no problems with scammers at all. The stuff he's yelling about for so many pages are just not that big a deal. There is literally nothing to "Expose" about this wonderful game. He even slams the graphics as being simple and "cartoonish" which is ridiculous. This lower resource graphics is what I consider to be a very strong point. You can play it on any computer anywhere -- not just "high end" equipment. EVERYONE can play!

I think the game play is highly intelligent -- a marvel of design. You really need to think and plan and work for long-term goals. What could be better to teach your kids? Chess has very bad, even cartoonish graphics, but is still great to play. Graphics are cool, but come on. The graphics in Runescape are still cool to look at. This is a game that takes math ability, planning, thought, interaction. It is a GREAT TEACHING TOOL.

Someone beat up my kid at school... and once when I was a kid in school, another kid scammed me:

I had some coveted firecrackers that I traded some of my favorite toys for -- took me a year before I could finally find someone who had some of these coveted items. I was bragging and showing them around... then a kid named Jimmy came over tellingme he had some "Black Cat" firecrackers he could go get for me if I just gave him the ones I had.. He left with my firecrackers never to be seen again.

That doesn't mean SCHOOL is bad. Kids just can be mean and do bad stuff. Its part of life. Runescape is like life, cept noone gets beat up in reality or loses real stuff. A MUCH BETTER way to learn these lessons.

This article is WAY off base. They need one touting the WONDERS of Runescape. It comes off as crazy... I sincerely hope the author does not go postal and start PKing Runescapers... lol. maybe this is an April fools joke?? I hope.
April 3, 2007 9:54:55 AM

Quote:
I have not had a chance to fully read TruthScape online but the title and front page are a bit worrying - I have problems with things that scream I AM THE TRUTH on the front page. Is what you are putting forward not your opinions (valid though they may be) not the absolute and unalterable TRUTH?

It's just a catchy name. :)  But I do believe everything that I said factually is true. Clearly some is my opinion and I am sure that that is rather clear..

c

Your point is somewhat mendacious. The facts may be true but the assertion you make is that RS is deeply flawed and should not be used by children, this is not truth - this is your opinion/argument based around facts (which may themselves be true).
April 3, 2007 1:29:05 PM

Quote:

Read the Rules the game is for 13 and up.

Then, once more, why are they advertising the game towards pre-teens?
Quote:

At the age 6 to 12 Children do not know right from Wrong.

And those are the kids playing the game in school computer labs and libraries.

c
April 3, 2007 1:31:45 PM

Quote:

I thought EXACTLY the same thing -- it was like he (the author) is crazy or something... makes no sense. so I tried to figure out what his real motives for writing this outrageously ferocious article might be -- maybe Runescape would not advertise on their site? Maybe because it is a game that uses low system resources, and they are heavily involved with high-end system builders? I don't get it at all. It seemed like hatred. It was like he was writing about a different game.

my 2 sons age 10 and 11 and I LOVE this game. We have no problems with scammers at all.

I'm glad to hear your kids have been lucky. However, this is like living in a crime-infested city and then denigrating those who complain about it because you personally haven't been a victim yet.

I wrote the articles solely to express my concerns and hopefully prompt Jagex to make changes. Your insinuations are insulting and I will not waste my time dignifying them with any further response.

c
April 3, 2007 1:41:20 PM

The author of this article has been playing for 2 years.... Why play for so long if the game is so blatantly bad for everyone? Wouldn't a couple days be all he needed to realize this and jump ship?

Something else is motivating him to write such a scathing article. I'm thinking that either:

- Bashing Runescape will benefit him finacially in real life, or
- He was scammed very badly in Runescape and now has an axe to grind.

I don't know his motivation, nor do I really care.

I do know that I've been playing with my 2 boys (11 and 8 years old) for nearly 2 years and we've enjoyed nearly every aspect of the game.

I'll admit that there are jerks in the game. But there are jerks in real life too. I believe Jagex is doing what they can with the technology available to censor bad language and protect kids from the evils of life. But to be honest, my kids have heard worse while stopped at a gas station and hearing teenagers spout off profanity. How can you shield your children from this stuff forever?? YOU CAN'T! What you CAN do is educate your kids about what is socially acceptable behavior and let them know that there are people in this world that are 1) bad people, and 2) insensitive jerks. How are you going to stop a drug dealer from offering your kid free drugs on the street while they walk home from school? You can't. But you can educate your kids on what to do if that happens and teach them that drugs are bad and will ruin their lives.

Runescape is a lot like real life. There are generous people, helpful people, mean people and murderous people.

If you don't want to be scammed - DON'T TRADE WITH PEOPLE!!
If you don't want to die in the Wilderness - DON'T GO IN THE WILDERNESS!!!
If you don't want to hear language that by-passes the chat filter - TURN OFF PUBLIC CHAT!!!

To those that don't know the game, and CONTRARY to what the author says: there is NOT ONE MANDITORY aspect of the game that forces you to go the Wilderness. NOT ONE!!! It's all VOLUNTARY!!

Best way to raise Runecrafting? Yes, you have to enter the Wilderness. Oh you don't like the Wilderness, THEN IT'S NOT THE BEST WAY FOR YOU!!! Find another way.

The author is jaded, one-sided, biased and has a hidden agenda.

For the record, I have a level 112 Combat player with 99 Smithing and 1850 total levels. I have found more friends in Runescape than I have in any other online game I have ever tried. And my kids love it.
April 3, 2007 2:12:26 PM

====================
"But RuneScape is child-oriented, with some players as young as five online."
====================

Who's fault is this?? The parents. Parents have a responsibility to monitor what their kids do online, just like they do when they sit in front of the TV. Jagex says 13 is the minimum age.


======================
"Other skills are primarily for earning money (RuneScape gold) so the character can buy needed items for further advancement."
======================

This is a fundemental flaw in your arguement. If you think this way about the game, then you don't know Runescape at all. The Smithing skill allows you to make your own armour so you don't have to buy it.

The same can be said Herblore, Farming, Crafting, Fletching, Magic, Woodcutting, etc, etc. You raise these skills to be self-sufficient, not make money....



==============
"These factors, combined with Jagex' child-directed advertising, and efforts to make the game more user-friendly, have resulted in millions of kids signing on to play RuneScape. This influx has in turn led to many experienced players and adults losing interest in the game and moving on, which lowers the average age of gamers further, creating a self-reinforcing cycle that pushes the average age of RuneScape gamers steadily downwards."
===============

This is your opinion and only your opinion. You have no statistics of the ages of the players. I belong to a group of players where the average age is 30! Where are your facts regarding "many experienced players and adults losing interest"?? You have none, I guarantee you have none.

If you want to be convincing, try sticking to facts.


====================
"you can be called a "noob" for doing almost anything, which really annoys younger players."
====================

If "noob" bothers you, you shouldn't be online. Neither should your kids. Holy cow....


=====================
"This ensures that they "learn" this behavior and pass it on to new players that come after them."
=====================

Learned behavior comes from the home. If you can't monitor your kid's activities online, they shouldn't be online. I suggest you write less articles and spend more time with your kids on the b-ball court.


=====================
"RuneScape is nominally a role-playing game, but very few players actually take on the role of a character and, well, role-play it; most just focus on obtaining items, wealth and power. "
======================

Again, this is your opinion, you have no facts to back this up. Your use of the word "Most" really bothers me. It is totally unprofessional and only brings to light your jaded opinions of the game.



======================
"There are no consequences for walking into a town, for example, and just slaughtering every townsperson you find; in most places cutting down a guard in front of another guard won't even cause the second to take notice. (Jagex even jokes in a quest about the killing of innocent guards...)"
=======================

Okay, if the killing stuff bothers you, you should have quit the game and forbid your children from playing Runescape before you got off Tutorial Island! Your use of the word slaughter will almost certainly mislead people that don't know the game (I think this is your intention, btw). Is there even any graphic blood in combat? Nope. Only hit points being taken off in a red square. I assume you forbid your children from playing Whack-A-Mole as well?? Oh, such violence!!


Good greif, I could on with pointing out problems with this article but I just don't have the time...

To those that haven't played the game, or to parents considering whether or not to let their kids play this game. Please do yourself a favor. Login, create your own character, play it for a couple of days, give it a fair chance. If you don't think it's appropriate for your kids, don't let them play. If you, like me, find it interesting and challenging, then guide your kids into the world of online role playing responsibly and please don't let them run rampant in our Runescape world. They really tend to be messy and not pick up after themselves without parental supervision. :) 
April 3, 2007 2:34:19 PM

Scammed? Read your mail once in a while, everyone recieves junk mail thats trying to scam you out of your money. This just moves it to another enviroment.

Quote:
Children not only learn from the other players in the game and the tone they set, but from Jagex' example as well. Is the company open and honest about its policies? Does it take a tough stance on illegal and immoral behaviour? Does it make combating cheaters and scammers a priority? Is it willing to accurately convey the true nature of the game to parents? Read on and decide for yourself.


Have you taken the time to become more involved in the game rather than looking at one small area (those which the "lowbies" are usually found). Having previously been a (Player Moderator, or the voluntary police in Runescape) i can tell you, yes. Jagex does take a tough stance on illegal and immoral language, acts and behaviour. In-game there is an option for reporting players who are abusive. These are dealt with as soon as possible, and Jagex deals with hundreds of thousands of these reports each day, if not every hour. And Player Moderators have the option to mute (make them unable to speak) whenever they feel that a player is acting out of tone. Combating cheaters and and scammers is an extremely high priority, any scammer or "hacker" within the game who is caught is given 1-2 chances and then are banned, or permamently muted meaning the time they spent on their character is wasted.

Jagex showing the "trust" about their game to parents?
http://kbase.runescape.com/viewcategory.ws?cat_id=884
go there, that link has everything that a worried parent needs to know, from paying for membership (to the extra features), to the security within the game.

Quote:
RuneScape Is Limited To Users Aged 13 And Older


Yes, it is a 13+ game, why? Because it is addictive, yes. Although for children under or 13 years of age, it is the parents problem. They should learn to control their kids, that was straight to the point, but it is true. If a child falls in their friends back garden, who do you blame? The other childs parents. Because they should have been watching their children.

Quote:
So how old are the players in RuneScape? For starters, the game has been around for over five years, but the age-13 restriction is much more recent. As a result, there are tens of thousands - if not hundreds of thousands - of active RuneScape players right now who were under that age limit before it was put into place and are still under 13, playing completely within the rules.


The game runescape was mainly introduced to a college enviroment aimed at 16-21 year olds as most games are. You try to use this arguement, but i dont know any 8 year olds who can play a game on a computer, even more know how to control it. (That would be the minimum age that they could be without now being over the age limit.)

Quote:
If you are the parent of a player and would like to report a serious incident or concern, email: [image]. You must include the RuneScape account name of your child and a detailed description of the exact nature of your enquiry.


You have been given a e-mail address to erport any concerns you may have.

Finally, as a big fat blow to your arguement.

Read all of the Parents guide.http://kbase.runescape.com/viewarticle.ws?article_id=29...
Quote:
Finally, RuneScape is set in a traditional fantasy setting with the usual combat and conflict, so we only recommend the game for players aged 13+ (i.e. if you wouldn't want your kids to watch "Lord of the Rings", you probably wouldn't want them to play RuneScape).


For those who care, and bothered reading. Thankyou.
April 3, 2007 2:36:43 PM

Quote:

The author of this article has been playing for 2 years.... Why play for so long if the game is so blatantly bad for everyone? Wouldn't a couple days be all he needed to realize this and jump ship?

It would appear that you've missed the point of the articles entirely.
Quote:

Something else is motivating him to write such a scathing article. I'm thinking that either:

- Bashing Runescape will benefit him finacially in real life, or
- He was scammed very badly in Runescape and now has an axe to grind.

I don't know his motivation, nor do I really care.

You don't know my motivation, yet you say "something else is motivating him to write such a scathing article". :roll:

What motivated me is a desire for awareness and change. If you don't want to believe that, fine. I'm sure impugning my character is much easier than addressing the problems my article raises.
Quote:

Runescape is a lot like real life. There are generous people, helpful people, mean people and murderous people.

And parents should be told about that.

Most do not play the game, and Jagex misportrays what the game is like, while advertising the game to kids. That's what the article is about.
Quote:

To those that don't know the game, and CONTRARY to what the author says: there is NOT ONE MANDITORY aspect of the game that forces you to go the Wilderness. NOT ONE!!! It's all VOLUNTARY!!

Nonsense. There are quests that require going into the wild, and skills where it is either required or necessary to do the skill in any sort of efficient way.
Quote:

Best way to raise Runecrafting? Yes, you have to enter the Wilderness. Oh you don't like the Wilderness, THEN IT'S NOT THE BEST WAY FOR YOU!!! Find another way.

Completely misses the point -- that going in there is encouraged.
Quote:

The author is jaded, one-sided, biased and has a hidden agenda.

Wait -- I thought you say you didn't know my motivation and didn't care? It sure seems like you care a lot.
Quote:

For the record, I have a level 112 Combat player with 99 Smithing and 1850 total levels. I have found more friends in Runescape than I have in any other online game I have ever tried. And my kids love it.

Glad to hear it. I like playing the game too -- but that's really not the point.

c
April 3, 2007 2:42:54 PM

Quote:
====================
"But RuneScape is child-oriented, with some players as young as five online."
====================

Who's fault is this?? The parents. Parents have a responsibility to monitor what their kids do online, just like they do when they sit in front of the TV. Jagex says 13 is the minimum age.

Parents make the game child-oriented?

Parents published a Runescape guide through a kids' publisher and put it in book clubs for kids 8 to 12?

Parents put out a Parents' Guide that says the game is for 'all ages' and provides no useful information about the darker side of the community?

Parents made the game open for kids of all ages for years before finally putting in a 13+ requirement that is widely ignored?
Quote:

This is a fundemental flaw in your arguement. If you think this way about the game, then you don't know Runescape at all. The Smithing skill allows you to make your own armour so you don't have to buy it.

The same can be said Herblore, Farming, Crafting, Fletching, Magic, Woodcutting, etc, etc. You raise these skills to be self-sufficient, not make money....

You're entitled to your opinion. Please tell me how fishing sharks above level 81 or cutting wood above level 75 improves "self-sufficiency"?
Quote:

This is your opinion and only your opinion. You have no statistics of the ages of the players. I belong to a group of players where the average age is 30! Where are your facts regarding "many experienced players and adults losing interest"?? You have none, I guarantee you have none.

Many months on the forums seeing older players talking about the game, and personal experience with adults quitting because of the influx of kids.
Quote:

Learned behavior comes from the home.

Kids who spend time online learn behavior online as well. I've witnessed it.
Quote:

Good greif, I could on with pointing out problems with this article but I just don't have the time...

You actually haven't pointed out many problems, you've mostly just attacked me personally with sarcasm and anger. And that's fine, but by trying to make this out as someone I did because of the impact of the game on me personally, you've entirely missed the point.

I'm smart, I'm an adult, and I know how to play the game safely and avoid problems. Many newer and younger players do not, and their parents have been deliberately misled about the nature of the game.

It also bothers me a great deal to see the Runescape Handbook in Scholastic Book Club flyers and to find out that Runescape is being played in the computer labs of elementary schools.

c
April 3, 2007 2:48:42 PM

Positive aspects of Runescape....

Math Skills
If I have 1,500 experience points, and I need 500 experience points (xp) to reach the next level of Woodcutting, how many Oak logs will I need to cut to reach my goal if each Oak log gives me 30 xp?

Player X is selling 2,000 logs for 40,000gp (gold pieces), Player Y is selling 1,500 logs at 35,000gp. Which is the better deal?

These are the types of math problems 6 and 7 years are doing in Runescape. In school they are still doing 2x2=4....

Other valuable skills to be learned:
Knowing the value of items and negotiating your best price for a desired item.

Appreciating the value of hard-earned money.

Teamwork skills: There are many team-based activities in the game. Many team games require players to assume different roles, each role helping the others to meet an objective.

Strategy and Planning skills: Examples of this are inumerable. Leveling skills always requires planning; killing very tough monsters takes strategy and very often multiple players helping in one way or another. Just getting around the vast world of Runescape takes planning and preparation. Take Farming for example... The only way to effectively train farming is to have a well planned "Farming Route" to quickly travel to all the Farming plots across the world.

Typing skills - who's going to say typing is not important now-a-days??

Patience - yes, patience is learned in Runescape. You get 15xp for mining one Iron Ore, 125xp for the best ore (Rune) - which is extremely rare in runescape and never used for massive leveling. To become the top miner would require you to earn 90,000,000 xp right now. Can you imagine the patience this player had to have to get that high? It boggles the mind.

Communication and Personal Interaction - In order for you to be successful in the world of Runescape, you need good communication skills and you need to be able to interact maturely with other players. The rude, abusive players don't stick around long enough to learn this. The real players are courteous and polite which, in turn, makes other players want to help them and trade with them in their pursuit of resources to help them gain levels.

Dealing with jerks - If you think this isn't a necessary skill in life, go back to the deserted island you've been living on. Grown-ups deal with difficult people nearly everyday. Sometimes we even have to deal with unbelievable, insensitive, complete, total moronic jerks! How did we learn to deal with them-before the Internet? From the bullies on the school playground probably... With no parents in sight. Would it not have been better to learn how to deal with someone like that with your parent sitting next to you to calm you down and help you get through it. Even give you coping techniques that lower stress and put a better view on it. EG: "Don't worry about it, son, he probably is just having a bad day." Or, "Actually, son, I feel sorry for that guy, he seems very unhappy at the world. Just leave him be...." wouldn't that be a nice way to teach love and understanding to your kids??

I think the positive aspects of the game far out-weigh the negative aspects. And I feel sorry for people like this author who can't get passed having his child being called a "noob."
April 3, 2007 2:48:48 PM

Quote:

Have you taken the time to become more involved in the game rather than looking at one small area (those which the "lowbies" are usually found).

My stats have been posted here. I'm no newbie.
Quote:

Having previously been a (Player Moderator, or the voluntary police in Runescape) i can tell you, yes. Jagex does take a tough stance on illegal and immoral language, acts and behaviour.

Then why did they legalize item scamming through luring until pressured to change it?
Quote:

Jagex showing the "trust" about their game to parents?
http://kbase.runescape.com/viewcategory.ws?cat_id=884
go there, that link has everything that a worried parent needs to know, from paying for membership (to the extra features), to the security within the game.

Sorry, but that's not true. I specifically covered omissions from the Parent's Guide in my article, so I see no point in repeating them here.
Quote:

Yes, it is a 13+ game, why? Because it is addictive, yes.

It isn't 13+, that's just Jagex's PR machine. Again, look at what they do, not what they say.
Quote:

The game runescape was mainly introduced to a college enviroment aimed at 16-21 year olds as most games are. You try to use this arguement, but i dont know any 8 year olds who can play a game on a computer, even more know how to control it. (That would be the minimum age that they could be without now being over the age limit.)

I know many people who have kids aged 8 or even younger who play. One posted right in this thread!
Quote:

Read all of the Parents guide.http://kbase.runescape.com/viewarticle.ws?article_id=29...
Finally, RuneScape is set in a traditional fantasy setting with the usual combat and conflict, so we only recommend the game for players aged 13+ (i.e. if you wouldn't want your kids to watch "Lord of the Rings", you probably wouldn't want them to play RuneScape).


For those who care, and bothered reading. Thankyou.

They added that within the last 24 hours -- likely in direct response to my articles. Hardly a "big fat blow" to my argument. ;) 

And I'm still waiting for one of you apologists to explain why the Official Runescape Handbook is being marketed to 8-12 year olds?

c
April 3, 2007 2:52:55 PM

Quote:
Positive aspects of Runescape....

I have always said there are positive aspects to the game. There are also negative aspects, but nobody wants to talk about those, it seems...
Quote:

I think the positive aspects of the game far out-weigh the negative aspects. And I feel sorry for people like this author who can't get passed having his child being called a "noob."


Well, you're certainly entitled to your opinions. It's unfortunate that you feel the need to mischaracterize the article and my motives due to your anger, but again, that's your choice.

c
April 3, 2007 2:59:35 PM

Quote:

Have you taken the time to become more involved in the game rather than looking at one small area (those which the "lowbies" are usually found).

My stats have been posted here. I'm no newbie.
Well then you will know that Jagex does put a lot of effort into preventing scamming and hacking within their game.

Quote:

Having previously been a (Player Moderator, or the voluntary police in Runescape) i can tell you, yes. Jagex does take a tough stance on illegal and immoral language, acts and behaviour.

Then why did they legalize item scamming through luring until pressured to change it?

They didnt legalize it, they felt that it was part of the wilderness, (where for those unaware you recieve a full screen loading screen and warning signs all over the edge of the wilderness, there is also an X in the corner of the screen, peoples own stupidity should not mean that jagex should protect them and make it illegal to kill in the wilderness.

Quote:

Jagex showing the "trust" about their game to parents?
http://kbase.runescape.com/viewcategory.ws?cat_id=884
go there, that link has everything that a worried parent needs to know, from paying for membership (to the extra features), to the security within the game.

Sorry, but that's not true. I specifically covered omissions from the Parent's Guide in my article, so I see no point in repeating them here.

Which i made points about and proved most of them wrong throughout my post.

Quote:

Yes, it is a 13+ game, why? Because it is addictive, yes.

It isn't 13+, that's just Jagex's PR machine. Again, look at what they do, not what they say.

Their game is not a 13+ game, in my opinion it is a PG at the very most, the only factor that could even affect it is the addiction, which once again is the parents fault.

Quote:

The game runescape was mainly introduced to a college enviroment aimed at 16-21 year olds as most games are. You try to use this arguement, but i dont know any 8 year olds who can play a game on a computer, even more know how to control it. (That would be the minimum age that they could be without now being over the age limit.)

I know many people who have kids aged 8 or even younger who play. One posted right in this thread!

Well then it is the parents fault. Would you like them to ID every single person who registers to the game? A passport photo from their representing governments sent to their HQ in England just so they can register? Jagex does what it can, if you have any other suggestions. Point them out and i shall apologize.
Quote:

Read all of the Parents guide.http://kbase.runescape.com/viewarticle.ws?article_id=29...
Finally, RuneScape is set in a traditional fantasy setting with the usual combat and conflict, so we only recommend the game for players aged 13+ (i.e. if you wouldn't want your kids to watch "Lord of the Rings", you probably wouldn't want them to play RuneScape).


For those who care, and bothered reading. Thankyou.

They added that within the last 24 hours -- likely in direct response to my articles. Hardly a "big fat blow" to my argument. ;) 

And I'm still waiting for one of you apologists to explain why the Official Runescape Handbook is being marketed to 8-12 year olds?

[/quote]

It is true that the Knowledge base is updated daily, although that has been there for a long time. I have read all of the rules thouroughly as a Player Moderator as i saw it my duty to understand them as best i could. So yes, that has been there for a long time and your article is not bookmarked on their browser making sure they edit everything for you. Blunt.. again. But you arent listening to peoples point.

The Runescape Handbook is aimed to be simple. Some people who play Runescape suffer from mental illness or arent from the country and english is not their strong point. Throughout my adventures in runescape i have met people from countries i had never even heard of before. All mature, law abiding people, some even player moderators.
April 3, 2007 3:05:56 PM

Quote:

Well then you will know that Jagex does put a lot of effort into preventing scamming and hacking within their game.

Hacking yes, scamming no.
Quote:

They didnt legalize it, they felt that it was part of the wilderness

They did legalize it... they said it was not reportable, and luring exploded as a result.

In fact, they used the exact same arguments to rationalize its legalization that the lurers are now using since it was made illegal.
Quote:

Which i made points about and proved most of them wrong throughout my post.

You're entitled to your opinion.
Quote:

Their game is not a 13+ game, in my opinion it is a PG at the very most, the only factor that could even affect it is the addiction, which once again is the parents fault.

Not when they are misled about the game's safety and Jagex is marketing it at their kids directly.
Quote:

Well then it is the parents fault.

See above.
Quote:

It is true that the Knowledge base is updated daily, although that has been there for a long time.

It most certainly has NOT been there for a long time. There were only 8 pages in the Parents' Guide when I wrote my articles.

If you check the KB article numbers, you'll find the page ID's of the original 8 pages are 2662, 2664, 2665, 2666, 2667, 2668, 2669 and 2692. The new page is 2963. And page 2958 was added on March 13th.
Quote:

The Runescape Handbook is aimed to be simple. Some people who play Runescape suffer from mental illness or arent from the country and english is not their strong point. Throughout my adventures in runescape i have met people from countries i had never even heard of before. All mature, law abiding people, some even player moderators.

You didn't answer my simple question. Why was the book written by a children's author, designed to be attractive to children, published with a children's publishing company and advertised in children's book clubs?

c
April 3, 2007 3:26:28 PM

Ok, you have your opinions and I respect that. And you have concerns regarding the so-called cover-up of the "darker" side of Runescape. That's valid. But I think the way you are going about it is very heavy-handed. You bash the game like an evangalist, yet you continue to play. That in itself seems contradictory to me. I'm not going to go back forth with the argument because we are looking at it from two totally different points of view. But two items in your responses erk'ed me.

1) "Please tell me how fishing sharks above level 81 or cutting wood above level 75 improves "self-sufficiency"?"

I use sharks to heal myself when I train slayer tasks. I fish and cook the sharks myself so I don't have to buy them. I don't have a lot of money as I give a lot away to friends and family in the game. Going to slayer tasks with my own sharks is self-sufficient. Do you not understand this?

I cut magic logs to fletch longbows which I, in turn, Hi Alch using the Nature runes I made from running back and forth from the Gnome Gliders that I use because I despise the Wilderness. This process gives me woodcutting, fletching, runecrafting and magic experience. (Totally self-sufficent). I don't understand how a high level player as you say you are doesn't understand this (or practice it yourself)????

Why would I stop fishing when I have only just begun to catch the best fishable food in the game?? Why would I stop cutting Magic Logs when I've just reached level 75 and now have access to the best logs in the game??? Your statement is completely illogical. Please think about it.




And #2) "Nonsense. There are quests that require going into the wild, and skills where it is either required or necessary to do the skill in any sort of efficient way. "

Again, you come across as a person with very limited knowledge of the game. Quests are completely, 100% optional, my friend. No one is making you do them. If you don't like the wilderness, then don't do those quests.

And as for skills, you say the most "efficient way" to do the skill is through the wilderness. And let's be honest, we are talking about using the Abyss to travel to the Runecrafting alters. The only way into the Abyss is to go to level 5 wilderness. Yes, this stinks. But do you think it is a way for the bravest runecrafters to level their runecrafting faster than anyone else. It's not true, you can work for the Law Making company on World 66 and never leave the altar. They level faster than anyone.

The best way to make runes and keep them to sell is through the abyss, that's true. It sounds like you want your cake and eat it too. You can't have both buddy. The bravest souls can use the abyss, make their runes, and sell them or use them themselves. They deserve to level their runecrafting skill faster than you because they put themselves out their, vulnerable to the Pk'ers. That's great for them, more power to them. I don't do it, you shouldn't either. Niether should kids that don't like the wilderness.

The Wilderness is and always has been voluntary. Nothing in the game says you have to go there. Got a clue scroll that points to the wilderness? just drop it. Wanna make Nature runes, walk the long way. Don't want to go into the Wilderness for a God staff, don't get the god staff. There are rewards for bravery - hmm, just like life!

You shouldn't mislead readers into thinking that much (or even a small fraction) of the game takes place in the Wilderness. I've played for nearly two years and have spent a total of maybe 1 hour in the Wilderness because I CHOOSE to do dangerous clue scrolls. My sons have spent about 5 minutes in the wilderness in the 2 years they've played. They don't like it, they don't go there. It's that simple.

Parents of young players (or potential players) need to be aware of the dangers of the Internet as a whole. Runescape is not immune to those dangers. When you design an impregnable, 100% kid-safe MMORPG, you will be richer than Bill Gates. But singling out Runescape misleads people into thinking that Runescape alone is worse than other online activites, which as a smart, computer savy adult, you should know is just not true.
April 3, 2007 3:44:01 PM

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Well then you will know that Jagex does put a lot of effort into preventing scamming and hacking within their game.

Hacking yes, scamming no.

I made a point in my original post about scamming. There are alot of measures to stop this happening, such as a second trade screen, the accept button being moved for the second accept. It is the users own responsibility to make sure that they are not scammed.

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They didnt legalize it, they felt that it was part of the wilderness

They did legalize it... they said it was not reportable, and luring exploded as a result.

Luring happens when a player says to another "come this way" they do so, and must pass a WARNING sign that they will be entering dangerous territory, once they pass that warning sign (that appears every time they log out, then log in and re-enter the wilderness unless they request it not to) incidentally.

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In fact, they used the exact same arguments to rationalize its legalization that the lurers are now using since it was made illegal.

I dont understand this comment, sorry. re-iterate?

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Their game is not a 13+ game, in my opinion it is a PG at the very most, the only factor that could even affect it is the addiction, which once again is the parents fault.

Not when they are misled about the game's safety and Jagex is marketing it at their kids directly.
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Well then it is the parents fault.

See above.

It is the parents responsibility to research into something like this. Jagex is not misleading about its security.

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It is true that the Knowledge base is updated daily, although that has been there for a long time.

It most certainly has NOT been there for a long time. There were only 8 pages in the Parents' Guide when I wrote my articles.
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The Runescape Handbook is aimed to be simple. Some people who play Runescape suffer from mental illness or arent from the country and english is not their strong point. Throughout my adventures in runescape i have met people from countries i had never even heard of before. All mature, law abiding people, some even player moderators.

You didn't answer my simple question. Why was the book written by a children's author, designed to be attractive to children, published with a children's publishing company and advertised in children's book clubs?

c[/quote]

Because the game is thirteen plus. There is 3 years of children (some would argue more) years left in that category.
April 3, 2007 3:46:17 PM

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Parents make the game child-oriented?

Parents published a Runescape guide through a kids' publisher and put it in book clubs for kids 8 to 12?

Parents put out a Parents' Guide that says the game is for 'all ages' and provides no useful information about the darker side of the community?

Parents made the game open for kids of all ages for years before finally putting in a 13+ requirement that is widely ignored?


I myself saw this book advertised in the Scholastic book pamphlet and was confused and concerned. I did some research and found out that the reading level is intended for kids 8-12 and there was no intention for the book's reading level to imply that kids younger than 13 were allowed to play Runescape.

Runescape is certainly "dumb'ed down" because of it's international popularity and breadth of ages allowed. It would be foolish to assume all 13 year olds read as well as you might think or that a young man in France can understand English as well as you and I.

I don't see this book as being a sturdy foundation on which to build your argument. It's not even a load bearing wall.....
April 3, 2007 3:49:02 PM

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Parents make the game child-oriented?

Parents published a Runescape guide through a kids' publisher and put it in book clubs for kids 8 to 12?

Parents put out a Parents' Guide that says the game is for 'all ages' and provides no useful information about the darker side of the community?

Parents made the game open for kids of all ages for years before finally putting in a 13+ requirement that is widely ignored?


I myself saw this book advertised in the Scholastic book pamphlet and was confused and concerned. I did some research and found out that the reading level is intended for kids 8-12 and there was no intention for the book's reading level to imply that kids younger than 13 were allowed to play Runescape.

Runescape is certainly "dumb'ed down" because of it's international popularity and breadth of ages allowed. It would be foolish to assume all 13 year olds read as well as you might think or that a young man in France can understand English as well as you and I.

I don't see this book as being a sturdy foundation on which to build your argument. It's not even a load bearing wall.....

Just to re-iterate the point. That book is more than likely useless. It contains things which one would pick up attaining decent skills within the game. The book must also be purchased with money. Something that parents must give to children, so it is also their responsibility to moderate that.
April 3, 2007 3:55:17 PM

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I myself saw this book advertised in the Scholastic book pamphlet and was confused and concerned. I did some research and found out that the reading level is intended for kids 8-12 and there was no intention for the book's reading level to imply that kids younger than 13 were allowed to play Runescape.


Qhenur, I'm entirely confused by the above statement so you may need to clarify it for me. It sounds like you're saying that just because Jagex is advertising at an audience that includes 8-12 year-olds that it doesn't mean they advocate selling the product to that age group. I could be wrong, but this sounds a little like a tobacco company justifying its placements of cigarette billboards near a school by saying, hey, it's for the adult teachers, not the kids.
April 3, 2007 4:07:01 PM

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Just to re-iterate the point. That book is more than likely useless. It contains things which one would pick up attaining decent skills within the game. The book must also be purchased with money. Something that parents must give to children, so it is also their responsibility to moderate that.


That's actually a good point, Trendyhaz. Parents definitely need to know what they're buying, even if it's a Scholastic book. But I also think that in order to moderate such material, they need to know a little bit more about RuneScape than perhaps just the company line from Jagex -- which is what Charles is attempting to do.
April 3, 2007 4:41:01 PM

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Qhenur, I'm entirely confused by the above statement so you may need to clarify it for me. It sounds like you're saying that just because Jagex is advertising at an audience that includes 8-12 year-olds that it doesn't mean they advocate selling the product to that age group. I could be wrong, but this sounds a little like a tobacco company justifying its placements of cigarette billboards near a school by saying, hey, it's for the adult teachers, not the kids.


I don't mind explaining what "reading level" means at all. :)  Books have a read level associated with them so that people can gauge if they will be able to comprehend the words contained therein. A man might be 45 years old but reads at an 8 year old level. Reading level doesn't (or shouldn't) imply "intended audience" age level.

Newspapers are written to the 8th grade reading level. But I venture to guess 8th graders make up less than half of a the Washington Post's reader audience... :) 
April 3, 2007 4:58:19 PM

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That's actually a good point, Trendyhaz. Parents definitely need to know what they're buying, even if it's a Scholastic book. But I also think that in order to moderate such material, they need to know a little bit more about RuneScape than perhaps just the company line from Jagex -- which is what Charles is attempting to do.


I am 100% in favor of close parental supervision. Please don't get me wrong. But bashing Runescape for the inherent flaws of the Internet doesn't make sense. The technology (or intellegence of software) to weed out offensive language will always play second fiddle to human ingenuity to bypass said intelligence.

There's one online game that I know of that stops the offensive language, that's Dinsey's Toontown. They do this by limiting what you can say down to a list of pre-written meesages that you choose from a menu. There's no bad-mouthing, no teasing, no verbal abuse, no trading, no meaningful conversations, no plans being made, no strategies, no new ideas, no real friends being made.

Censorship is a double-edged sword. For those that find the risks of being online outweighing the benefits of being online, it's time to turn off the PC and go find another hobby.

To parents that have children in this day and age that are unaware of the internet, it's appeal to kids and it's dangers, well, that's sad. But so are the parents that still smoke in front of their kids, or shoot up drugs. Sad, but it happens.

"You need a license to drive a car, you need a license to hunt, you even need a license to go fishing. But they let any swinging **** be a father."
April 3, 2007 5:21:52 PM

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Just to re-iterate the point. That book is more than likely useless. It contains things which one would pick up attaining decent skills within the game. The book must also be purchased with money. Something that parents must give to children, so it is also their responsibility to moderate that.


That's actually a good point, Trendyhaz. Parents definitely need to know what they're buying, even if it's a Scholastic book. But I also think that in order to moderate such material, they need to know a little bit more about RuneScape than perhaps just the company line from Jagex -- which is what Charles is attempting to do.

Personally i feel this will just go around in circles, lol. Despite what may have been there "24 hours ago" Jagex has now updated their website and adequate information has been posted.

Luring - some descisions within every company require tuning and managing. Luring was one of them.
April 3, 2007 6:10:02 PM

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I myself saw this book advertised in the Scholastic book pamphlet and was confused and concerned. I did some research and found out that the reading level is intended for kids 8-12 and there was no intention for the book's reading level to imply that kids younger than 13 were allowed to play Runescape.


Qhenur, I'm entirely confused by the above statement so you may need to clarify it for me. It sounds like you're saying that just because Jagex is advertising at an audience that includes 8-12 year-olds that it doesn't mean they advocate selling the product to that age group. I could be wrong, but this sounds a little like a tobacco company justifying its placements of cigarette billboards near a school by saying, hey, it's for the adult teachers, not the kids.

Well said...

I am not confused. Methinks there is some rather green, leafy material here, trying to dispel the obvious. That book is the ONLY official GUIDE endorsed byJagex, on their game, Runescape. It said ages 8 to 12 right on the flyer I have in my hands.

My son got it at school and it is from Scholastic, so parents will be lulled into thinking oh, Runescape is for 8+. Jagex official statements may say otherwise , and the terms and conditions are now required to say 13+ by COPPA as Jagex asked for private information, but....but, an official guide is released for people to use while playing the game. To say otherwise is ludicrous.
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