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IBM keyboard on HP Pavilion

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Anonymous
May 23, 2004 7:06:04 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

It's time to ask again.

My wonderful old IBM clickclack will not work on my HP 505n Pavilion.
I tried three keyboards, none worked. They were a blue-label by
Lexmark, the old IBM-M, and old Keytronics. All worked on
my friend's HP Pavilion 764n. None work on my 505n.

My motherboard failed recently (in warranty) and HP replaced it.
They took 8 weeks but the good keyboards still don't work.

I've tried "everything" including adding recommended two
pull-up resistors.

Anyone have any idea? My wrists can't stand modern keyboards.

Can I turn the IBM keyboard into a wireless USB connection?
Can I rewire it?
Is there a "modern" good keyboard?

Mason C

More about : ibm keyboard pavilion

Anonymous
May 23, 2004 8:25:39 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

Mason,

I'm with you on the clickety-click 101-key old IBM keyboard. Hardware
designers seem to be messing with the chip that handles the keyboard, departing
from the old standard IC.

Two suggestions:

Try a PS/2-to-USB adapter and plug in the IBM keyboard that way. Let me know if
it works. The days of the PS/2 "legacy" keyboard connector are numbered.

Try a newer IBM keyboard. Not nearly as sturdy, but not a bad touch. Dell
keyboards are decent, too. Not sure about the schlock you find in the retail
stores... Ben Myers

On Sun, 23 May 2004 03:06:04 GMT, MasonC <masonc@ix.netcom.xyz.com> wrote:

>It's time to ask again.
>
>My wonderful old IBM clickclack will not work on my HP 505n Pavilion.
>I tried three keyboards, none worked. They were a blue-label by
>Lexmark, the old IBM-M, and old Keytronics. All worked on
>my friend's HP Pavilion 764n. None work on my 505n.
>
> My motherboard failed recently (in warranty) and HP replaced it.
>They took 8 weeks but the good keyboards still don't work.
>
>I've tried "everything" including adding recommended two
>pull-up resistors.
>
>Anyone have any idea? My wrists can't stand modern keyboards.
>
>Can I turn the IBM keyboard into a wireless USB connection?
>Can I rewire it?
>Is there a "modern" good keyboard?
>
> Mason C
>
>
Anonymous
May 23, 2004 10:02:33 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

I *love* those old keyboards... so much easier to type on..

I will be very much looking forward to hearing if the adapter works...

I know I hate the keyboards that HP and eMachines provide with their
computers.. I am presently using a "Microsoft Internet Keyboard" on
this Pavilion, which is one heck of a lot better than those provided
by the computer companies, but it still is not as good as the older,
coil-spring-under-each-key clicky-clack type keyboard..

JM


On Sun, 23 May 2004 04:25:39 GMT, ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net
(Ben Myers) wrote:

>Mason,
>
>I'm with you on the clickety-click 101-key old IBM keyboard. Hardware
>designers seem to be messing with the chip that handles the keyboard, departing
>from the old standard IC.
>
>Two suggestions:
>
>Try a PS/2-to-USB adapter and plug in the IBM keyboard that way. Let me know if
>it works. The days of the PS/2 "legacy" keyboard connector are numbered.
>
>Try a newer IBM keyboard. Not nearly as sturdy, but not a bad touch. Dell
>keyboards are decent, too. Not sure about the schlock you find in the retail
>stores... Ben Myers
>
Related resources
Anonymous
May 26, 2004 12:00:17 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

On Sun, 23 May 2004 04:25:39 GMT, ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben
Myers) wrote:

>Mason,
>
>I'm with you on the clickety-click 101-key old IBM keyboard. Hardware
>designers seem to be messing with the chip that handles the keyboard, departing
>from the old standard IC.
>
>Two suggestions:
>
>Try a PS/2-to-USB adapter and plug in the IBM keyboard that way. Let me know if
>it works. The days of the PS/2 "legacy" keyboard connector are numbered.

I tried a simple five-buck adapter. I suspect a more sophisticated
adapter would be needed. But also assume I'd need a driver -- not
to be found. Maybe I'll explore the local Weird Stuff junk warehouse
for a good keyboard. Buy a dozen for $12 and try them all.

Or put a new motherboard in my P1 200Mhz and hope.

>
>Try a newer IBM keyboard. Not nearly as sturdy, but not a bad touch. Dell
>keyboards are decent, too. Not sure about the schlock you find in the retail
>stores... Ben Myers

I tapped on the local schlock and got the best I found -- it's pretty bad.

Isn't there some worker's safety law against these things?


Thanks for the suggestions,

Mason C
>
>On Sun, 23 May 2004 03:06:04 GMT, MasonC <masonc@ix.netcom.xyz.com> wrote:
>
>>It's time to ask again.
>>
>>My wonderful old IBM clickclack will not work on my HP 505n Pavilion.
>>I tried three keyboards, none worked. They were a blue-label by
>>Lexmark, the old IBM-M, and old Keytronics. All worked on
>>my friend's HP Pavilion 764n. None work on my 505n.
>>
>> My motherboard failed recently (in warranty) and HP replaced it.
>>They took 8 weeks but the good keyboards still don't work.
>>
>>I've tried "everything" including adding recommended two
>>pull-up resistors.
>>
>>Anyone have any idea? My wrists can't stand modern keyboards.
>>
>>Can I turn the IBM keyboard into a wireless USB connection?
>>Can I rewire it?
>>Is there a "modern" good keyboard?
>>
>> Mason C
>>
>>
Anonymous
May 26, 2004 1:38:32 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

Ya know, a keyboard should NOT be this big a problem. Something else
is going on here.

Wild guess #1:
Are you testing these keyboards by plugging them in and unplugging
them with the computer turned on?
If so, every one of them may very well be toast. "Hot" plugging a
keyboard is the best way in the world to blow it out. You can hot plug
a ps2 mouse, but not a keyboard. Always turn the computer off before
plugging or unplugging a keyboard.

Wild guess #2:
Are you absolutely sure that you aren't plugging these things into
your ps/2 MOUSE connector? After all. it's physically identical to the
keyboard connector.
That would nicely explain why none of them work on your system but
work fine on your friend's system (whose mouse/keyboard connectors
might be more clearly labeled)
Anonymous
May 26, 2004 4:41:19 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

Maon,

PS/2-to-USB adapters are inherently simple devices. A small IC converts the
signals from one interface to the other. Except for the larger, more
complicated and more functional USB hubs, there is no need for more
sophisticated technology here.

No driver is required for any basic 101-key or 104-key (Windows!) keyboard. The
keyboards with all the silly buttons on the top like the so-called internet
keyboards and the other keyboards with special function keys and gizmos are the
ones which require drivers to handle the new wave of great functionality. Gag!

As a previous posting noted, there is something else going on here. I can't put
my finger on it without fingering an actual system and keyboard. My guess is
that HP has made a fundamental change in the keyboard circuitry and/or BIOS to
lock people into their brand of keyboard. If so, here we go again with yet
another attempt to lock people into proprietary garbage! It's the history of
the computer industry... Ben Myers

On Wed, 26 May 2004 08:00:17 GMT, Mason A. Clark <masoncNOT@THISix.netcom.comQ>
wrote:

>On Sun, 23 May 2004 04:25:39 GMT, ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben
>Myers) wrote:
>
>>Mason,
>>
>>I'm with you on the clickety-click 101-key old IBM keyboard. Hardware
>>designers seem to be messing with the chip that handles the keyboard, departing
>>from the old standard IC.
>>
>>Two suggestions:
>>
>>Try a PS/2-to-USB adapter and plug in the IBM keyboard that way. Let me know if
>>it works. The days of the PS/2 "legacy" keyboard connector are numbered.
>
>I tried a simple five-buck adapter. I suspect a more sophisticated
>adapter would be needed. But also assume I'd need a driver -- not
>to be found. Maybe I'll explore the local Weird Stuff junk warehouse
>for a good keyboard. Buy a dozen for $12 and try them all.
>
>Or put a new motherboard in my P1 200Mhz and hope.
>
>>
>>Try a newer IBM keyboard. Not nearly as sturdy, but not a bad touch. Dell
>>keyboards are decent, too. Not sure about the schlock you find in the retail
>>stores... Ben Myers
>
>I tapped on the local schlock and got the best I found -- it's pretty bad.
>
>Isn't there some worker's safety law against these things?
>
>
> Thanks for the suggestions,
>
> Mason C
>>
>>On Sun, 23 May 2004 03:06:04 GMT, MasonC <masonc@ix.netcom.xyz.com> wrote:
>>
>>>It's time to ask again.
>>>
>>>My wonderful old IBM clickclack will not work on my HP 505n Pavilion.
>>>I tried three keyboards, none worked. They were a blue-label by
>>>Lexmark, the old IBM-M, and old Keytronics. All worked on
>>>my friend's HP Pavilion 764n. None work on my 505n.
>>>
>>> My motherboard failed recently (in warranty) and HP replaced it.
>>>They took 8 weeks but the good keyboards still don't work.
>>>
>>>I've tried "everything" including adding recommended two
>>>pull-up resistors.
>>>
>>>Anyone have any idea? My wrists can't stand modern keyboards.
>>>
>>>Can I turn the IBM keyboard into a wireless USB connection?
>>>Can I rewire it?
>>>Is there a "modern" good keyboard?
>>>
>>> Mason C
>>>
>>>
>
Anonymous
May 27, 2004 12:30:12 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

On Wed, 26 May 2004 09:38:32 GMT, Howd E. Doodat <Howd@freagin.happen> wrote:

>
>Ya know, a keyboard should NOT be this big a problem. Something else
>is going on here.
>
>Wild guess #1:
>Are you testing these keyboards by plugging them in and unplugging
>them with the computer turned on?
>If so, every one of them may very well be toast. "Hot" plugging a
>keyboard is the best way in the world to blow it out. You can hot plug
>a ps2 mouse, but not a keyboard. Always turn the computer off before
>plugging or unplugging a keyboard.
>
>Wild guess #2:
>Are you absolutely sure that you aren't plugging these things into
>your ps/2 MOUSE connector? After all. it's physically identical to the
>keyboard connector.
>That would nicely explain why none of them work on your system but
>work fine on your friend's system (whose mouse/keyboard connectors
>might be more clearly labeled)
>
Put simply: none of the above is applicable.

Maybe I didn't give enough detail in my last posts.

In addition, I took the computer and keyboards to a competent
repair shop and they had no better luck.

I need more than "wild guesses".

Mason C
Anonymous
May 27, 2004 12:35:17 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

On Wed, 26 May 2004 12:41:19 GMT, ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben
Myers) wrote:

>Maon,
>
>PS/2-to-USB adapters are inherently simple devices. A small IC converts the
>signals from one interface to the other. Except for the larger, more
>complicated and more functional USB hubs, there is no need for more
>sophisticated technology here.
>
>No driver is required for any basic 101-key or 104-key (Windows!) keyboard. The
>keyboards with all the silly buttons on the top like the so-called internet
>keyboards and the other keyboards with special function keys and gizmos are the
>ones which require drivers to handle the new wave of great functionality. Gag!
>
>As a previous posting noted, there is something else going on here. I can't put
>my finger on it without fingering an actual system and keyboard. My guess is
>that HP has made a fundamental change in the keyboard circuitry and/or BIOS to
>lock people into their brand of keyboard. If so, here we go again with yet
>another attempt to lock people into proprietary garbage! It's the history of
>the computer industry... Ben Myers
>

However, right now I'm typing on a (squishy) Kensington keyboard on the HP
Pavilion 505n. I have only had failure with the 1992 IBM M and an older similar
Keytronics. The IBM is working perfectly on my old P1 200Mhz ASUS Win 98
computer.

Mason C
\
>On Wed, 26 May 2004 08:00:17 GMT, Mason A. Clark <masoncNOT@THISix.netcom.comQ>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 23 May 2004 04:25:39 GMT, ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben
>>Myers) wrote:
>>
>>>Mason,
>>>
>>>I'm with you on the clickety-click 101-key old IBM keyboard. Hardware
>>>designers seem to be messing with the chip that handles the keyboard, departing
>>>from the old standard IC.
>>>
>>>Two suggestions:
>>>
>>>Try a PS/2-to-USB adapter and plug in the IBM keyboard that way. Let me know if
>>>it works. The days of the PS/2 "legacy" keyboard connector are numbered.
>>
>>I tried a simple five-buck adapter. I suspect a more sophisticated
>>adapter would be needed. But also assume I'd need a driver -- not
>>to be found. Maybe I'll explore the local Weird Stuff junk warehouse
>>for a good keyboard. Buy a dozen for $12 and try them all.
>>
>>Or put a new motherboard in my P1 200Mhz and hope.
>>
>>>
>>>Try a newer IBM keyboard. Not nearly as sturdy, but not a bad touch. Dell
>>>keyboards are decent, too. Not sure about the schlock you find in the retail
>>>stores... Ben Myers
>>
>>I tapped on the local schlock and got the best I found -- it's pretty bad.
>>
>>Isn't there some worker's safety law against these things?
>>
>>
>> Thanks for the suggestions,
>>
>> Mason C
>>>
>>>On Sun, 23 May 2004 03:06:04 GMT, MasonC <masonc@ix.netcom.xyz.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>It's time to ask again.
>>>>
>>>>My wonderful old IBM clickclack will not work on my HP 505n Pavilion.
>>>>I tried three keyboards, none worked. They were a blue-label by
>>>>Lexmark, the old IBM-M, and old Keytronics. All worked on
>>>>my friend's HP Pavilion 764n. None work on my 505n.
>>>>
>>>> My motherboard failed recently (in warranty) and HP replaced it.
>>>>They took 8 weeks but the good keyboards still don't work.
>>>>
>>>>I've tried "everything" including adding recommended two
>>>>pull-up resistors.
>>>>
>>>>Anyone have any idea? My wrists can't stand modern keyboards.
>>>>
>>>>Can I turn the IBM keyboard into a wireless USB connection?
>>>>Can I rewire it?
>>>>Is there a "modern" good keyboard?
>>>>
>>>> Mason C
>>>>
>>>>
>>
May 27, 2004 12:35:18 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

"Mason A. Clark" <masoncNOT@THISix.netcom.comQ> wrote in message
news:rjv9b0t3sog02vigj0j9iguh4eok6r2sov@4ax.com...
> >
>
> However, right now I'm typing on a (squishy) Kensington keyboard on the HP
> Pavilion 505n. I have only had failure with the 1992 IBM M and an older
similar
> Keytronics. The IBM is working perfectly on my old P1 200Mhz ASUS Win 98
> computer.
>
> Mason C
> \

Mason,

Unless I missed the details in a post I didn't see, Is your problem that the
keyboard doesn't work in Windows?

Does it work while booting? Can you go into the BIOS setup?

If the keyboard works in the BIOS setup and not in windows, it probably
indicates the BIOS and electrical connections are OK.

If it fails in Windows, is the multimedia keyboard driver still being
loaded? Can you boot into safe mode where most drivers are not loaded?

It is possible that a multimedia keyboard driver is causing the problem?
You'll have to provide the information that tells us what is happening.

As the computer starts up, do you see the keyboard lights flash as the
keyboard is reset?

Does the BIOS report the keyboard as it starts? You may have to try this
with a keyboard that works and the one that doesn't to see if any
differences are reported.

Perhaps the answers to these questions will help others point you in the
right direction.

craigm
Anonymous
May 27, 2004 12:52:11 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

Mason,

All we have around our office and house are computers with old IBM 101-key
clicky keyboards. Whenever I have a spare moment (almost never), I clean them
up and sell them with all brands of refurb gear. I use one to test new
brand-name computers, and to work with all the computers loaded with spyware and
browser hijackers that show up here for repair. But every so often, a computer
refuses to work with the IBM keyboard. I have not kept track of exactly which
brands and models, but $#it happens.

My best guess still remains that HP has somehow departed from a long-time
standard with the 505n. Another reason not by an HP? Because it won't work
reliably with non-HP keyboards? Go figure... Ben Myers

On Wed, 26 May 2004 20:35:17 GMT, Mason A. Clark <masoncNOT@THISix.netcom.comQ>
wrote:

>On Wed, 26 May 2004 12:41:19 GMT, ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben
>Myers) wrote:
>
>>Maon,
>>
>>PS/2-to-USB adapters are inherently simple devices. A small IC converts the
>>signals from one interface to the other. Except for the larger, more
>>complicated and more functional USB hubs, there is no need for more
>>sophisticated technology here.
>>
>>No driver is required for any basic 101-key or 104-key (Windows!) keyboard. The
>>keyboards with all the silly buttons on the top like the so-called internet
>>keyboards and the other keyboards with special function keys and gizmos are the
>>ones which require drivers to handle the new wave of great functionality. Gag!
>>
>>As a previous posting noted, there is something else going on here. I can't put
>>my finger on it without fingering an actual system and keyboard. My guess is
>>that HP has made a fundamental change in the keyboard circuitry and/or BIOS to
>>lock people into their brand of keyboard. If so, here we go again with yet
>>another attempt to lock people into proprietary garbage! It's the history of
>>the computer industry... Ben Myers
>>
>
>However, right now I'm typing on a (squishy) Kensington keyboard on the HP
>Pavilion 505n. I have only had failure with the 1992 IBM M and an older similar
>Keytronics. The IBM is working perfectly on my old P1 200Mhz ASUS Win 98
>computer.
>
> Mason C
>\
>>On Wed, 26 May 2004 08:00:17 GMT, Mason A. Clark <masoncNOT@THISix.netcom.comQ>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 23 May 2004 04:25:39 GMT, ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben
>>>Myers) wrote:
>>>
>>>>Mason,
>>>>
>>>>I'm with you on the clickety-click 101-key old IBM keyboard. Hardware
>>>>designers seem to be messing with the chip that handles the keyboard, departing
>>>>from the old standard IC.
>>>>
>>>>Two suggestions:
>>>>
>>>>Try a PS/2-to-USB adapter and plug in the IBM keyboard that way. Let me know if
>>>>it works. The days of the PS/2 "legacy" keyboard connector are numbered.
>>>
>>>I tried a simple five-buck adapter. I suspect a more sophisticated
>>>adapter would be needed. But also assume I'd need a driver -- not
>>>to be found. Maybe I'll explore the local Weird Stuff junk warehouse
>>>for a good keyboard. Buy a dozen for $12 and try them all.
>>>
>>>Or put a new motherboard in my P1 200Mhz and hope.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Try a newer IBM keyboard. Not nearly as sturdy, but not a bad touch. Dell
>>>>keyboards are decent, too. Not sure about the schlock you find in the retail
>>>>stores... Ben Myers
>>>
>>>I tapped on the local schlock and got the best I found -- it's pretty bad.
>>>
>>>Isn't there some worker's safety law against these things?
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for the suggestions,
>>>
>>> Mason C
>>>>
>>>>On Sun, 23 May 2004 03:06:04 GMT, MasonC <masonc@ix.netcom.xyz.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>It's time to ask again.
>>>>>
>>>>>My wonderful old IBM clickclack will not work on my HP 505n Pavilion.
>>>>>I tried three keyboards, none worked. They were a blue-label by
>>>>>Lexmark, the old IBM-M, and old Keytronics. All worked on
>>>>>my friend's HP Pavilion 764n. None work on my 505n.
>>>>>
>>>>> My motherboard failed recently (in warranty) and HP replaced it.
>>>>>They took 8 weeks but the good keyboards still don't work.
>>>>>
>>>>>I've tried "everything" including adding recommended two
>>>>>pull-up resistors.
>>>>>
>>>>>Anyone have any idea? My wrists can't stand modern keyboards.
>>>>>
>>>>>Can I turn the IBM keyboard into a wireless USB connection?
>>>>>Can I rewire it?
>>>>>Is there a "modern" good keyboard?
>>>>>
>>>>> Mason C
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>
Anonymous
May 27, 2004 5:20:50 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

Good thinking and excellent suggestions for all to remember! ... Ben Myers

On Wed, 26 May 2004 17:58:49 -0500, "craigm" <none@domain.invalid> wrote:

>
>"Mason A. Clark" <masoncNOT@THISix.netcom.comQ> wrote in message
>news:rjv9b0t3sog02vigj0j9iguh4eok6r2sov@4ax.com...
>> >
>>
>> However, right now I'm typing on a (squishy) Kensington keyboard on the HP
>> Pavilion 505n. I have only had failure with the 1992 IBM M and an older
>similar
>> Keytronics. The IBM is working perfectly on my old P1 200Mhz ASUS Win 98
>> computer.
>>
>> Mason C
>> \
>
>Mason,
>
>Unless I missed the details in a post I didn't see, Is your problem that the
>keyboard doesn't work in Windows?
>
>Does it work while booting? Can you go into the BIOS setup?
>
>If the keyboard works in the BIOS setup and not in windows, it probably
>indicates the BIOS and electrical connections are OK.
>
>If it fails in Windows, is the multimedia keyboard driver still being
>loaded? Can you boot into safe mode where most drivers are not loaded?
>
>It is possible that a multimedia keyboard driver is causing the problem?
>You'll have to provide the information that tells us what is happening.
>
>As the computer starts up, do you see the keyboard lights flash as the
>keyboard is reset?
>
>Does the BIOS report the keyboard as it starts? You may have to try this
>with a keyboard that works and the one that doesn't to see if any
>differences are reported.
>
>Perhaps the answers to these questions will help others point you in the
>right direction.
>
>craigm
>
>
Anonymous
May 27, 2004 5:29:24 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

On Wed, 26 May 2004 20:52:11 GMT, ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net
(Ben Myers) wrote:

>
>My best guess still remains that HP has somehow departed from a long-time
>standard with the 505n. Another reason not by an HP? Because it won't work
>reliably with non-HP keyboards? Go figure... Ben Myers

Jeeezzz..."It's deja vu all over again" (Thanks, Yogi)

Anybody have a copy of "Microsoft Keyboard Simulator"?

You cyberkids will say "What the hell is he talking about?"

You cyberfogies will understand, and simply smile.... ;-)
Anonymous
May 27, 2004 7:05:02 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

On Wed, 26 May 2004 20:30:12 GMT, Mason A. Clark
<masoncNOT@THISix.netcom.comQ> wrote:

>On Wed, 26 May 2004 09:38:32 GMT, Howd E. Doodat <Howd@freagin.happen> wrote:
>
>>
>>Ya know, a keyboard should NOT be this big a problem. Something else
>>is going on here.
>>
>>Wild guess #1:
>>Are you testing these keyboards by plugging them in and unplugging
>>them with the computer turned on?
>>If so, every one of them may very well be toast. "Hot" plugging a
>>keyboard is the best way in the world to blow it out. You can hot plug
>>a ps2 mouse, but not a keyboard. Always turn the computer off before
>>plugging or unplugging a keyboard.
>>
>>Wild guess #2:
>>Are you absolutely sure that you aren't plugging these things into
>>your ps/2 MOUSE connector? After all. it's physically identical to the
>>keyboard connector.
>>That would nicely explain why none of them work on your system but
>>work fine on your friend's system (whose mouse/keyboard connectors
>>might be more clearly labeled)
>>
>Put simply: none of the above is applicable.

Put simply, in the process of troubleshooting, elimination is far more
important than suspicion.

>Maybe I didn't give enough detail in my last posts.

I would call this a fact.

>In addition, I took the computer and keyboards to a competent
>repair shop and they had no better luck.
>
>I need more than "wild guesses".

In the absence of substantive descriptions of your problem, I'm afraid
"wild guesses" are all I had to start the bidding with.

Sorry if I disturbed you. I'll go away now.
Anonymous
May 28, 2004 11:31:03 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

Try Unicomp's Online Store at pckeyboard.com got mine from them . Has that
"clickety-clack" sound and old IBM keyboard feel to the keys

cl

"Mason A. Clark" <masoncNOT@THISix.netcom.comQ> wrote in message
news:uaj8b0lh61cg0t820opokuj75bmc062kkb@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 23 May 2004 04:25:39 GMT, ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben
> Myers) wrote:
>
> >Mason,
> >
> >I'm with you on the clickety-click 101-key old IBM keyboard. Hardware
> >designers seem to be messing with the chip that handles the keyboard,
departing
> >from the old standard IC.
> >
> >Two suggestions:
> >
> >Try a PS/2-to-USB adapter and plug in the IBM keyboard that way. Let me
know if
> >it works. The days of the PS/2 "legacy" keyboard connector are numbered.
>
> I tried a simple five-buck adapter. I suspect a more sophisticated
> adapter would be needed. But also assume I'd need a driver -- not
> to be found. Maybe I'll explore the local Weird Stuff junk warehouse
> for a good keyboard. Buy a dozen for $12 and try them all.
>
> Or put a new motherboard in my P1 200Mhz and hope.
>
> >
> >Try a newer IBM keyboard. Not nearly as sturdy, but not a bad touch.
Dell
> >keyboards are decent, too. Not sure about the schlock you find in the
retail
> >stores... Ben Myers
>
> I tapped on the local schlock and got the best I found -- it's pretty bad.
>
> Isn't there some worker's safety law against these things?
>
>
> Thanks for the suggestions,
>
> Mason C
> >
> >On Sun, 23 May 2004 03:06:04 GMT, MasonC <masonc@ix.netcom.xyz.com>
wrote:
> >
> >>It's time to ask again.
> >>
> >>My wonderful old IBM clickclack will not work on my HP 505n Pavilion.
> >>I tried three keyboards, none worked. They were a blue-label by
> >>Lexmark, the old IBM-M, and old Keytronics. All worked on
> >>my friend's HP Pavilion 764n. None work on my 505n.
> >>
> >> My motherboard failed recently (in warranty) and HP replaced it.
> >>They took 8 weeks but the good keyboards still don't work.
> >>
> >>I've tried "everything" including adding recommended two
> >>pull-up resistors.
> >>
> >>Anyone have any idea? My wrists can't stand modern keyboards.
> >>
> >>Can I turn the IBM keyboard into a wireless USB connection?
> >>Can I rewire it?
> >>Is there a "modern" good keyboard?
> >>
> >> Mason C
> >>
> >>
>
Anonymous
May 29, 2004 2:09:54 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

On Wed, 26 May 2004 17:58:49 -0500, "craigm" <none@domain.invalid> wrote:

>
>"Mason A. Clark" <masoncNOT@THISix.netcom.comQ> wrote in message
>news:rjv9b0t3sog02vigj0j9iguh4eok6r2sov@4ax.com...
>> >
>>
>> However, right now I'm typing on a (squishy) Kensington keyboard on the HP
>> Pavilion 505n. I have only had failure with the 1992 IBM M and an older
>similar
>> Keytronics. The IBM is working perfectly on my old P1 200Mhz ASUS Win 98
>> computer.
>>
>> Mason C
>> \
>
>Mason,
>
>Unless I missed the details in a post I didn't see, Is your problem that the
>keyboard doesn't work in Windows?

Apparently so.
>
>Does it work while booting? Can you go into the BIOS setup?

From the XP floppy boot-up disk, IT WORKS! There's hope.
I never thought of trying that. But I go nowhere from there.
>
>If the keyboard works in the BIOS setup and not in windows, it probably
>indicates the BIOS and electrical connections are OK.

Looks that way.
>
>If it fails in Windows, is the multimedia keyboard driver still being
>loaded? Can you boot into safe mode where most drivers are not loaded?
>
HP driver is there. So I uninstalled it (praying that I could get it back :-)

(it did come back instantly via plug-n-play)

>It is possible that a multimedia keyboard driver is causing the problem?
>You'll have to provide the information that tells us what is happening.

Seems possible, but uninstalling it leaves me with nothing.

Now my problem is how to drive the IBM keyboard from Windows XP.
I've rounded up the usual suspects:
Plug-n-Play didn't. New Hardware Install didn't -- nothing to do there.

I tried the PS2-USB adapter to force Plug-n-Play but nothing happened.
(I have little faith in this $4.79 adapter.)

>
>As the computer starts up, do you see the keyboard lights flash as the
>keyboard is reset?

In XP the Num Lock light comes on; *nothing* else is active on the keyboard.
>
>Does the BIOS report the keyboard as it starts? You may have to try this
>with a keyboard that works and the one that doesn't to see if any
>differences are reported.
>
>Perhaps the answers to these questions will help others point you in the
>right direction.
>
>craigm

Hey, you've got me one foot in the door -- it works on the computer but not
in Windows XP. Thank you !

Mason C now one more foot
>
Anonymous
May 29, 2004 7:17:17 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

On Fri, 28 May 2004 22:09:54 GMT, Mason A. Clark <masoncNOT@THISix.netcom.comQ>
wrote:

>On Wed, 26 May 2004 17:58:49 -0500, "craigm" <none@domain.invalid> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Mason A. Clark" <masoncNOT@THISix.netcom.comQ> wrote in message
>>news:rjv9b0t3sog02vigj0j9iguh4eok6r2sov@4ax.com...
>>> >
>>>
>>> However, right now I'm typing on a (squishy) Kensington keyboard on the HP
>>> Pavilion 505n. I have only had failure with the 1992 IBM M and an older
>>similar
>>> Keytronics. The IBM is working perfectly on my old P1 200Mhz ASUS Win 98
>>> computer.
>>>
>>> Mason C
>>> \
>>
>>Mason,
>>
>>Unless I missed the details in a post I didn't see, Is your problem that the
>>keyboard doesn't work in Windows?
>
>Apparently so.
>>
>>Does it work while booting? Can you go into the BIOS setup?
>
>From the XP floppy boot-up disk, IT WORKS! There's hope.
>I never thought of trying that. But I go nowhere from there.
>>
>>If the keyboard works in the BIOS setup and not in windows, it probably
>>indicates the BIOS and electrical connections are OK.
>
>Looks that way.
>>
>>If it fails in Windows, is the multimedia keyboard driver still being
>>loaded? Can you boot into safe mode where most drivers are not loaded?
>>
>HP driver is there. So I uninstalled it (praying that I could get it back :-)
>
>(it did come back instantly via plug-n-play)
>
>>It is possible that a multimedia keyboard driver is causing the problem?
>>You'll have to provide the information that tells us what is happening.
>
>Seems possible, but uninstalling it leaves me with nothing.
>
>Now my problem is how to drive the IBM keyboard from Windows XP.
>I've rounded up the usual suspects:
>Plug-n-Play didn't. New Hardware Install didn't -- nothing to do there.
>
>I tried the PS2-USB adapter to force Plug-n-Play but nothing happened.
>(I have little faith in this $4.79 adapter.)
>
>>
>>As the computer starts up, do you see the keyboard lights flash as the
>>keyboard is reset?
>
>In XP the Num Lock light comes on; *nothing* else is active on the keyboard.
>>
>>Does the BIOS report the keyboard as it starts? You may have to try this
>>with a keyboard that works and the one that doesn't to see if any
>>differences are reported.
>>
>>Perhaps the answers to these questions will help others point you in the
>>right direction.
>>
>>craigm
>
>Hey, you've got me one foot in the door -- it works on the computer but not
>in Windows XP. Thank you !
>
> Mason C now one more foot


OK, here's one more toe, net yet a foot:

I switched from the HP PS2 driver to "Standard 101/102-key... " driver.

Now it boots up a live keyboard (lights flash, NumLock etc lights
are controllable) --- UNTIL the "HP Invent" screen comes on.
At that point the keyboard is nul and void. The "Device Manager"
does not display the presence of any keyboard and all effort to
install one fails.

HP has invented something. Now if I could bypass that HP screen maybe
XP would accept the keyboard ???

Mason C
Anonymous
May 29, 2004 7:47:33 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

Sure sounds like a bad keyboard controller chip to me, but what do I
know?
Anonymous
May 29, 2004 8:39:26 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

On Sat, 29 May 2004 03:47:33 GMT, Howd E. Doodat <Howd@freagin.happen> wrote:

>
>Sure sounds like a bad keyboard controller chip to me, but what do I
>know?
>
For a different reason the mother board was replaced. Not likely to
be hardware. The keyboard works in DOS.

Mason
Anonymous
May 29, 2004 11:01:05 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

On Sat, 29 May 2004 04:39:26 GMT, Mason A. Clark
<masoncNOT@THISix.netcom.comQ> wrote:

>On Sat, 29 May 2004 03:47:33 GMT, Howd E. Doodat <Howd@freagin.happen> wrote:
>
>>
>>Sure sounds like a bad keyboard controller chip to me, but what do I
>>know?
>>
>For a different reason the mother board was replaced. Not likely to
>be hardware. The keyboard works in DOS.
>
> Mason

Okay. So i may assume then that all the keyboards worked just fine
BEFORE you got the new motherboard?

You've tried a usb adaptor. Did you also enable the "usb keyboard" in
BIOS when you did it?

One last wild guess (I know how much you love them!): If your BIOS has
a setting for "Plug'n'play aware OS", try turning the damned thing OFF
and see what happems.

Re the last 2 paragraphs, not all BIOS have these options.
Anonymous
May 29, 2004 12:17:03 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

On Sat, 29 May 2004 07:01:05 GMT, Howd E. Doodat <Howd@freagin.happen> wrote:

>On Sat, 29 May 2004 04:39:26 GMT, Mason A. Clark
><masoncNOT@THISix.netcom.comQ> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 29 May 2004 03:47:33 GMT, Howd E. Doodat <Howd@freagin.happen> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Sure sounds like a bad keyboard controller chip to me, but what do I
>>>know?
>>>
>>For a different reason the mother board was replaced. Not likely to
>>be hardware. The keyboard works in DOS.
>>
>> Mason
>
>Okay. So i may assume then that all the keyboards worked just fine
>BEFORE you got the new motherboard?

No no no. Keyboard problem unchanged by new motherboard.
>
>You've tried a usb adaptor. Did you also enable the "usb keyboard" in
>BIOS when you did it?
>
>One last wild guess (I know how much you love them!): If your BIOS has
>a setting for "Plug'n'play aware OS", try turning the damned thing OFF
>and see what happems.
>
>Re the last 2 paragraphs, not all BIOS have these options.

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll investigate tomorrow morning.
I don't remember seeing any way to turn off Plug'n'play.

Mason C
Anonymous
May 29, 2004 5:59:14 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

Mason,

In addition to adding an HP splash screen to Windows, it almost seems as if HP
has modified the standard Windows startup to impose its keyboard driver, and
ONLY its keyboard driver. If you have an appetite for experimentation and can
easily get your hands on a standard Windows XP Home (???) CD, try a reinstall of
Windows XP Home over the existing software. The reinstall should detect the
101-key clicky keyboard, install the right driver and maybe even override the HP
splash screen and other HP rubbish... Ben Myers

On Sat, 29 May 2004 03:17:17 GMT, Mason A. Clark <masoncNOT@THISix.netcom.comQ>
wrote:

<SNIP>
>> Mason C now one more foot
>
>
>OK, here's one more toe, net yet a foot:
>
>I switched from the HP PS2 driver to "Standard 101/102-key... " driver.
>
>Now it boots up a live keyboard (lights flash, NumLock etc lights
>are controllable) --- UNTIL the "HP Invent" screen comes on.
>At that point the keyboard is nul and void. The "Device Manager"
>does not display the presence of any keyboard and all effort to
>install one fails.
>
>HP has invented something. Now if I could bypass that HP screen maybe
>XP would accept the keyboard ???
>
> Mason C
>
>
Anonymous
May 30, 2004 1:35:26 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

>
>Thanks for the suggestion. I'll investigate tomorrow morning.
>I don't remember seeing any way to turn off Plug'n'play.
>
> Mason C


One more not-quite-idle question, in your "device manager", do you
hapen to have any device conflicts ("yellow exclamation points")?
Anonymous
May 30, 2004 3:14:39 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

Yet another comment: The Pavilion 505n uses a Trigem Glendale motherboard with
Intel 845 chipset. I have run many 845 chipset systems with an old reliable
101-key clicky-clack IBM keyboard. One of them is my primary keyboard for
servicing computers on the bench. This points to two possibilities. Either the
Trigem Glendale BIOS is cobbled up so that the IBM 101 won't work with it, or
the HP version of Windows XPee has been screwed around with by HP. I'll vote
for the latter, especially in view of the fact that the IBM 101 works just fine
with the Pavilion during BIOS setup and in DOS mode.

Let me suggest one more easy thing to try. Does the Trigem Glendale BIOS have a
CMOS reset menu choice? If so, reset the CMOS, power down, attach the IBM 101,
and see what happens next. Next thing to try would be to remove the CMOS
battery for an hour or two, then plug in the IBM 101, re-esatblish the correct
CMOS settings and see what happens.

Finally, you can download an interesting little program from the Gateway web
site to reset the PLUG-AND-PLAY settings, which are different from the CMOS
settings. The PnP settings are actually stored off in a part of the flash
memory dedicated to this purpose, following the joint Intel-Microsoft (who
else?) plug-and-play spec. If memory serves me well, the program is
ESCSD<something or other>.ZIP . Blowing away the PnP settings will cause
Windows to go thru all the girations of detecting all its devices again... Ben
Myers

On Sun, 23 May 2004 03:06:04 GMT, MasonC <masonc@ix.netcom.xyz.com> wrote:

>It's time to ask again.
>
>My wonderful old IBM clickclack will not work on my HP 505n Pavilion.
>I tried three keyboards, none worked. They were a blue-label by
>Lexmark, the old IBM-M, and old Keytronics. All worked on
>my friend's HP Pavilion 764n. None work on my 505n.
>
> My motherboard failed recently (in warranty) and HP replaced it.
>They took 8 weeks but the good keyboards still don't work.
>
>I've tried "everything" including adding recommended two
>pull-up resistors.
>
>Anyone have any idea? My wrists can't stand modern keyboards.
>
>Can I turn the IBM keyboard into a wireless USB connection?
>Can I rewire it?
>Is there a "modern" good keyboard?
>
> Mason C
>
>
Anonymous
May 30, 2004 3:14:40 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

Oooh, a new toy for the toybox....

(laughter)

JM

On Sat, 29 May 2004 23:14:39 GMT, ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net
(Ben Myers) wrote:
<snip some good stuff>
>Finally, you can download an interesting little program from the Gateway web
>site to reset the PLUG-AND-PLAY settings, which are different from the CMOS
>settings. The PnP settings are actually stored off in a part of the flash
>memory dedicated to this purpose, following the joint Intel-Microsoft (who
>else?) plug-and-play spec. If memory serves me well, the program is
>ESCSD<something or other>.ZIP . Blowing away the PnP settings will cause
>Windows to go thru all the girations of detecting all its devices again... Ben
>Myers
Anonymous
May 30, 2004 7:42:08 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

Actually, the file is called CLRESCSD.EXE . It may not be on the Gateway web
site any more. It may not be necessary if a clear CMOS jumper also clears the
ESCD (Extended System Configuration Data). If anybody wants a copy of this
file and cannot find it on the web, email me and I'll send out a copy.

.... Ben Myers

On Sat, 29 May 2004 18:50:46 -0700, JustMee <me@nowhere.com.invalid> wrote:

>Oooh, a new toy for the toybox....
>
>(laughter)
>
>JM
>
>On Sat, 29 May 2004 23:14:39 GMT, ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net
>(Ben Myers) wrote:
><snip some good stuff>
>>Finally, you can download an interesting little program from the Gateway web
>>site to reset the PLUG-AND-PLAY settings, which are different from the CMOS
>>settings. The PnP settings are actually stored off in a part of the flash
>>memory dedicated to this purpose, following the joint Intel-Microsoft (who
>>else?) plug-and-play spec. If memory serves me well, the program is
>>ESCSD<something or other>.ZIP . Blowing away the PnP settings will cause
>>Windows to go thru all the girations of detecting all its devices again... Ben
>>Myers
>
Anonymous
May 30, 2004 11:55:53 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

On Sun, 23 May 2004 03:06:04 GMT, MasonC <masonc@ix.netcom.xyz.com> wrote:

>It's time to ask again.
>
>My wonderful old IBM clickclack will not work on my HP 505n Pavilion.

ALMOST THERE ! Pardon my shout.

I'm typing on my old IBM right now.

The trick is this:

At the "HP Invent" splash screen, press F1 to enter Setup.
( the keyboard is functioning up to this point )

Set "Reset configuration data" to [YES] -- the secret --

( Plug'n'Play is set to [YES] and I don't think it
has any effect either way.)

The HP splash returns and it boots with the IBM keyboard OK.

However, the "Reset configuration data" resets itself to [NO] and
must be reset *each* time. (I've booted many times....ugh)

I'll operate this way but hope for a permanent fix.

Ben, I downloaded CLRESCSD.exe at:

ftp://ftp.gw2k.com/pub/hardware_support/bios/pentium/cl...

But I'm too scared to run it -- especially if it's not the solution.
What do you think? Is it a P'n'P problem or "configuration data"?

Anyway, I'm on the keyboard, thanks to the suggestions
of everybody, especially *craigm* and ben_myers.

Thank you much much, merci beaucoup, gracias etc etc

Mason C
Anonymous
May 31, 2004 1:00:20 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

Mason,

Run CLRESCSD.exe from a DOS box and use it to prepare a floppy which must be
booted and run at the DOS prompt. For XP, this may be a problem. You may have
to make up a bootable 95/98/ME floppy first, then use CLRESCSD.exe to finish
making up the required floppy.

Running the resulting floppy will give you choices to do things to the ESCD.
You want to reset it. This may accomplish the same thing as resetting the
configuration data from the BIOS.

From what you've described, it almost seems like the HP version of software
manages somehow to reset the ESCD back again at system shutdown to use the
stinking HP keyboard.

"Reset configuration data" always resets itself to [NO] after resetting. This
is a feature of almost any BIOS. It is normal to assume that the config data
will not be reset every time the system boots... Ben

On Sun, 30 May 2004 07:55:53 GMT, Mason A. Clark <masoncNOT@THISix.netcom.comQ>
wrote:

>On Sun, 23 May 2004 03:06:04 GMT, MasonC <masonc@ix.netcom.xyz.com> wrote:
>
>>It's time to ask again.
>>
>>My wonderful old IBM clickclack will not work on my HP 505n Pavilion.
>
>ALMOST THERE ! Pardon my shout.
>
>I'm typing on my old IBM right now.
>
>The trick is this:
>
>At the "HP Invent" splash screen, press F1 to enter Setup.
> ( the keyboard is functioning up to this point )
>
>Set "Reset configuration data" to [YES] -- the secret --
>
> ( Plug'n'Play is set to [YES] and I don't think it
> has any effect either way.)
>
>The HP splash returns and it boots with the IBM keyboard OK.
>
>However, the "Reset configuration data" resets itself to [NO] and
>must be reset *each* time. (I've booted many times....ugh)
>
>I'll operate this way but hope for a permanent fix.
>
>Ben, I downloaded CLRESCSD.exe at:
>
> ftp://ftp.gw2k.com/pub/hardware_support/bios/pentium/cl...
>
>But I'm too scared to run it -- especially if it's not the solution.
>What do you think? Is it a P'n'P problem or "configuration data"?
>
>Anyway, I'm on the keyboard, thanks to the suggestions
>of everybody, especially *craigm* and ben_myers.
>
> Thank you much much, merci beaucoup, gracias etc etc
>
> Mason C
Anonymous
June 2, 2004 4:56:57 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.hp.hardware (More info?)

Ben,

Because it persistently requires reset of the ESCD, I'm guessing that to
reset the ESCD in *any* way will be futile -- requiring reset at each cold boot.

My neighbor gave me another IBM model M and it also fails on the
HP computer -- needing a reset of ESCD.

Also an AT/XT keyboard made by EPC in Taiwan. It looks like an IBM; works
fine and feels good. Not as noisy as IBM's but far superior to the retail
keyboards I see ( feel ) in the stores today. And the old layout.

I'll settle for this near thing. If I have serious typing I can always boot
up to a click/clack IBM. Time out on this.

Thanks again,

Mason C


On Sun, 30 May 2004 21:00:20 GMT, ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben
Myers) wrote:

>Mason,
>
>Run CLRESCSD.exe from a DOS box and use it to prepare a floppy which must be
>booted and run at the DOS prompt. For XP, this may be a problem. You may have
>to make up a bootable 95/98/ME floppy first, then use CLRESCSD.exe to finish
>making up the required floppy.
>
>Running the resulting floppy will give you choices to do things to the ESCD.
>You want to reset it. This may accomplish the same thing as resetting the
>configuration data from the BIOS.
>
>From what you've described, it almost seems like the HP version of software
>manages somehow to reset the ESCD back again at system shutdown to use the
>stinking HP keyboard.
>
>"Reset configuration data" always resets itself to [NO] after resetting. This
>is a feature of almost any BIOS. It is normal to assume that the config data
>will not be reset every time the system boots... Ben
>
>On Sun, 30 May 2004 07:55:53 GMT, Mason A. Clark <masoncNOT@THISix.netcom.comQ>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 23 May 2004 03:06:04 GMT, MasonC <masonc@ix.netcom.xyz.com> wrote:
>>
>>>It's time to ask again.
>>>
>>>My wonderful old IBM clickclack will not work on my HP 505n Pavilion.
>>
>>ALMOST THERE ! Pardon my shout.
>>
>>I'm typing on my old IBM right now.
>>
>>The trick is this:
>>
>>At the "HP Invent" splash screen, press F1 to enter Setup.
>> ( the keyboard is functioning up to this point )
>>
>>Set "Reset configuration data" to [YES] -- the secret --
>>
>> ( Plug'n'Play is set to [YES] and I don't think it
>> has any effect either way.)
>>
>>The HP splash returns and it boots with the IBM keyboard OK.
>>
>>However, the "Reset configuration data" resets itself to [NO] and
>>must be reset *each* time. (I've booted many times....ugh)
>>
>>I'll operate this way but hope for a permanent fix.
>>
>>Ben, I downloaded CLRESCSD.exe at:
>>
>> ftp://ftp.gw2k.com/pub/hardware_support/bios/pentium/cl...
>>
>>But I'm too scared to run it -- especially if it's not the solution.
>>What do you think? Is it a P'n'P problem or "configuration data"?
>>
>>Anyway, I'm on the keyboard, thanks to the suggestions
>>of everybody, especially *craigm* and ben_myers.
>>
>> Thank you much much, merci beaucoup, gracias etc etc
>>
>> Mason C
!