Minimum/living wage

My opinion on this topic is subject to change if someone has a good arguement for their POV. I just read an article that said cities are passing living wage laws requiring local minimum wages be as high as $12 something an hour.

I say F that! If you want more money bust a$$, go to school and work 2 jobs and get out of your crappy situation. What gives an someone a right to make more money doing a job that perhaps is not worth all that much to an employer. We have very low unemployment where I live and even with no laws many employers pay well above minimum for entry level jobs because if they don't no one will work there. The market force sets the wage. Even if there was no federal minimum the rate would still be the same. The minimum really only kicks in when there are too many people wanting to do a job that has a limited number of openings. In this case there are too many workers. The natural way to would be to lower the pay until there was a balence between the number of people willing to do the job and the number of jobs available.

Artifically setting the wage higher increases the burden on the employer reducing profit or in the case of smaller businesses running them out of business. It increases inflation and effectively decreases my wages and decreases motivation to get and education and decreases motivation to get a better job. The only "good" it does is that it gives some uneducated minimum wage slacker more money so Joe Slacker can live better. I say screw Joe Slacker. When I was younger I worked 2 jobs and it sucked, so I went to school and now I still work 2 jobs (sometimes 3) and manage property but now it doesn't suck cause I earn a good living and drive a Corvette. Anyone can get ahead in this country (US). I don't care what color you are or how poor your family is or anything else the opertunity is out there if you want it. Yeah you are gonna hafta work really hard for a while and yeah some people will have it better or easier but anyone can make it here. I say Joe Slacker don't just get a job, get an education too!

Give me fuel, give me fire, give me that which I desire.

Education is more important, but everytime they try to make it more rigorous a bunch of parents come and sue everyone for making their kids suffer (aka think).

My kids aren't going to highschool, I'm sending them straight to a community college.

<font color=red>God</font color=red> <font color=blue>Bless</font color=blue> <font color=red>America!</font color=red>

Well lakedude, I have to agree with you, where I live there are really great beaches and weather, and what happens is that 10 or 12 17 or 18 yr olds rent a house right on the beach and go surfing all day, they are all on the dole (unemployment benefit) none of them want or look for work, and Im bloody paying for it with my taxes, If they want to bludge then everybody else shouldent have to pay for them, and then you get some poor old bastard who fought in the War getting kicked out of his retirement home cos his govt war pension dosent cover his rent, it really sh!ts me off, I dont mind at all paying for War pensioners , theyve done thier bit, If it wasent for them we would all be speaking german, Ive worked bloody hard to get where I am, no one EVER, EVER gave me anything and Ive had to work hard for it, Now that things have started to gel for me and my work is paying off, I look back and was it worth it, My Oath it was, We have a minimum working wage in Australia, but its still not attractive to the waxhead surfers, they would rather do nothing and get paid for it,My neighbour was on the dole for 18 years, 18 years what a waste, and he used to get someone in to mow his lawn!
But the best ones are the University students, over here we have a scheme called HECS, Higher Education Contribution Scheme, basically it means that the govt pays for you to go to Uni, and you pay it back when U start work, but thats too tough for the students, they reckon that the Govt should pay for them to go to uni, good lurk if you can swing it.
The only problem we have here is that if you work 2 jobs the second one is taxed at about 45%, which takes a lot of the incentive out of doing it, It seems that the govt dosent want people doing that, they would rather have them surfing in the ocean, It keeps the lifeguards in a job I suppose

Yes, it is impossible to live off of minimum wage in CA. It's pretty much impossible to live off of $12/hr.

Nonetheless, there are tons of jobs here and even Burger King pays over $9 an hour.

For $12 an hour you can live like a King (no burger) in Oklahoma. However, if they raise the minimum wage they'll probably raise the cost of living in those states that are dirt cheap. In CA, I'm not sure they can raise prices anymore. Everything is more expensive here. I paid $1.68 for regular gas the other day. My rent for a one bedroom apt is more than people pay for a house in Florida. This country is big and $12/hr will do different things for different people in different places.

<font color=red>God</font color=red> <font color=blue>Bless</font color=blue> <font color=red>America!</font color=red>

Um...not everyone from TX and OK are "Joe Slackers." I'm from that area and that pisses me off to say the least. But apart from our "dirt cheap" lives, I have to say raising the minimum wage is something that has to be done anyway. I mean inflation is the most important factor regarding this subject. When looking at the economy, you will see that inflation occurs whether you raise the minimum wage or not. But let's look at a theoretical view for a second. Let's say the economy is booming, business is doing well, blah, blah, and we decide not to raise the minimum wage. Well, that means prices stay low, people buy like crazy, which in turn causes maufacturers to raise their production. But sooner or later, the bubble has to pop, and all of the sudden we see consumer drawback and maufacturers with an overload of produce. Well, now they have to cut back on all the money they lose from not selling all of their products or having to lower the price of them to get them sold, so this means they have to make cuts somewhere to make up for the loss....hmmm, can anyone say unemployement? They start laying off people, and people without work will begin to have less and less money, and this in turn causes people to buy even less. Soon the recession would lead to a depression in the economy.

So simply, what I am saying (and what any common sense person would say that knows anything about the economy) is that we need the minimum wage to keep things stable. By raising it this in cause would cause an increase in inflation, and thereby would "slow" the economy down a bit and create a more stable ground for us to fall back on if anything was to ever happen in the future. That's why that even though the U.S. is in a recession right now, we are not feeling it as badly as we would have 20 years ago (thank god Clinton pushed to raise the minimum wage, but I still think it needs to be higher. Had it been raised to around 7 bucks an hour, I'm sure we would not be going through this recession right now). Of course, there are other factors to consider in this case, but that's the main jest of it. Ok, start the arguement...

Look out for #1. Don't step in #2 either.

While I basically agree with you I have a few additional points.

For one if you are a grown person with a family and are at minimum or in California at under 10 then you are irresponsible. Keep it in your pants until you can support a family. This is another one of my pet peeves. People run around haveing kids like rabbits and then want help cause "we can't starve the children". Well if you can't afford it don't have em!

For two some of the expenses you list are luxury items I have done without when I was younger. Having a car should not be a right. I drove a bicycle to work full time at Target clerking and went to college to be a EE (in Iowa) at the same time. Nobody gave me a car or felt sorry for me. Think that was fun? No it wasn't, but now I have 2 good jobs and I don't ride a bicycle anywhere unless I want to. Public transportation is also available if you don't want to ride a bike. Also if you are really nice someone with a car can take you places. I always try to help people in bad situations and 9 time of of 10 I end up learning the hard way that those people are in those situations for a reason. You can't help someone who won't be helped.

Give me fuel, give me fire, give me that which I desire.

"Um...not everyone from TX and OK are "Joe Slackers." "

I never said anything about anybody from any particular anywhere being a slacker. I also never said anything what so ever about folks from TX or OK. Where are you getting this?

As to the minimum wage slowing a depression, I really can't say. This is the kind of discussion I had hoped for and you may have a good point. As I said I am open minded on the subject.

To further clarify what set me off in the first place was not an article on the FEDERAL minimum but individul CITYS enacting local minimum wages higher then the federal minimum. They are calling these minimums living wages. There may be good points to these and in a perfect world it would be nice if no one had to make less then poverty level. My initial reaction was that if it is so expensive where you live move. I did! My company pays the same no matter where you live so I moved to a low cost state and I'm doing better then if I had stayed put. I have a friend who does the same job and has a family and will not move away from his extended family. This is his choice and he is happy because he is with his family. He is barely above poverty because his wages go to support 4 people instead of one and because stuff costs more where he CHOOSES to live. I would love it if he would move to my area and I even offered to put a down payment on a house for him if he moved. If he was single he would have moved but he stayed put because of family. His wage would go farther here and we would be on the lake today jet skiing if he were here but he chose to stay with his family and he is happy where he is. None of this bothers me. What does bother me is when someone does nothing to help themselves and then complains that they ain't got it so good. If you <b>choose</b> not to move and you <b>choose</b> to not get an education and you <b>choose</b> to have a family before you can afford it and you <b>choose</b> to live alone instead of with other families then you have choosen to be an uneducated Joe Slacker. Raising the minimum may be a good idea but I personally do not want to go too far out of my way to help the Joe Slackers of the world.

Give me fuel, give me fire, give me that which I desire.

Good point about the women. I don't have an answer for that. As I said I am open minded.

Give me fuel, give me fire, give me that which I desire.

Yeah, I was just saying I live in that general area, a lot of my family is from OK. I was pissed off at the statement, but I knew you didn't mean any harm by it.

Look out for #1. Don't step in #2 either.

They say if you are under 30 and are not a deomcrat then you don't have a heart and if you are over 30 and are not a republican then you don't have a brain.

I think there is some truth to this. When I was younger I wanted to help everybody and wanted unrealistic things because that is what was in my heart. Now that I'm older I have indeed become more "republican". I still wish everything and everybody could be perfect but I accept that this is not going to happen and I am now more concerned about protecting what I have earned.

Give me fuel, give me fire, give me that which I desire.

My first job (a year ago, when i was 14) was $8.00 an hour . Then again I set up 2 entire networks of over 200 computers....

Sig of the week.

This is where I disagree with the democratic philosophy. The democrats want the rich to pay for the poor, and I don't think that's right. Why should those that worked hard to earn their money have to pay for those that don't work hard to make their own money?

Disadvantaged? Everyone can get an education. Financial aid offers free education for those who can't afford it. I don't think a republican would disagree with that. You don't have to pay back student loans for the first 6 months after you've graduated, so that gives you half a year to get a job to pay off your loans that are probably subsidized if you're disadvantaged.

Disadvantaged? If a person has a mental illness or a learning disability there is plenty of support out there for both getting a special education or a job.

So when you say disadvantaged and not helped, who are you talking about?

<font color=red>God</font color=red> <font color=blue>Bless</font color=blue> <font color=red>America!</font color=red>

Something to say about the cost of living in areas. If one cannot afford it, tehy should move or get a better job! In my area for example, the cost of living is even higher than California's, but you won't find anyone making less than 80 grand a year here. That's even pulling it tight, after factoring in taxes, etc. Therefore, if one can't live in a certain area, chances are they shouldn't.

Sig of the week.

Ok, this is going to open up another can of worms, but there's this thing called the INS and if someone wants to live in this country then they'll have to do it legally just like the rest of us did and they'll have to stand in those damn long lines just like the millions of legal people did.

Besides being an illegal alien anyone can apply for financial aid. Most will get it.

<font color=red>God</font color=red> <font color=blue>Bless</font color=blue> <font color=red>America!</font color=red>

"So in other words you are now thinking more about yourself than others."

Sorry to say yes, but this has been a leaned response over time. Some people make more some less. Anybody can be in the more if they choose. I could go back to school and make even more then I do now but I choose not to because I make enough. If I was ever unhappy about how much I make I would look for another job and/or go back to school.

Give me fuel, give me fire, give me that which I desire.

You may have that opportunity, but others may not.

Look out for #1. Don't step in #2 either.

Even families with 6 figure incomes can qualify for financial aid. Have you dealt with the process? There are a number of grants and loans that they distribute.

<font color=red>God</font color=red> <font color=blue>Bless</font color=blue> <font color=red>America!</font color=red>

That wasn't nice at all. I'm not being ignorant, I'm speaking from the chair of someone who's gone through the process. How do you think I got through school? I kept thinking that I couldn't apply while I was a dependent of my parents, but that's not true. <A HREF="http://www.fafsa.ed.gov/" target="_new">Fafsa</A> has a list on their site with the percentages of people who are accepted. If I could get on their site I would link to it.

Nonetheless, I admit that there are others that will be rejected. People with drug convictions will most likely be denied. They might get their tuition waived, but they probably won't be elligible for a loan. I wonder why?

If you're dirt poor and you haven't defaulted on loans or been convicted of a drug offense then, yes, you will almost certainly get some form of support. The least they'll do is waive your tuition.

<font color=red>God</font color=red> <font color=blue>Bless</font color=blue> <font color=red>America!</font color=red>

I do not look down on people who are poor and happy and I'm sorry if I insulted you. My problem is with people who choose to be poor as you have (you said you could have been rich) and then complain about it and want me or my tax dollars to do something about it. This is a bad time for me and I'm crabby cause I always owe several thousand dollars on the 15th. While everybody else is talking about spending their refund I trying to figure out where to get the money to pay my taxes. I know a girl who doesn't work at all and doesn't do all that great of a job raising her kids and who is on crank but because she has kids she got a big old "earned income tax credit" check and just bought a truck. She can't ever afford stuff for her kids but she never runs out of cigarettes.

Give me fuel, give me fire, give me that which I desire.

"But I still say there are those that, try hard as they may, still don't have the opportunities to make it."

I will not argue cause I really do not know but do you have examples?


Give me fuel, give me fire, give me that which I desire.

Sure, there are many examples. Uh...there is a good movie to watch that is sort of like this called John Q. As for examples, many people that are in the lower middle class cannot apply for grants, loans, etc because they make too much money, but they themselves do not have enough money to go to college alone on their income and do not have the opportunities to make more. There are many loop holes to the system, and I imagine whatever we devise to help people out with will always have cracks in it.

Look out for #1. Don't step in #2 either.

When I was 20 I worked for the cities human resources department and I was responsable for giving out jobs for disadvantaged kids. $12/hr as a matter of fact.

Those that have a hard time? Those are the ones that live in a household in which nobody speaks English. They have to work extra hard to make it in society. I met a hundred parents who had lived in the USA for 20-40 years and still couldn't speak English. The kids were great though and they tried their best and I got all of them some form of summer work. Nonetheless, these parents gave the kids no hope. I had a kid go to sleep during his interview. The odd part is that he was one of the only white kids I interviewed. The rest were refugees and immigrants from poor nations. They stay close to their ethnic communities but they're finding that their kids don't want to live that life. In order to get them out of the lifestyle, I think the state was forcing the parents to give their kids some other opportunities if they wished to keep their aid.

My point? Out of a few hundred interviews the disadvange mostly stemmed from families that had moved to the USA and hadn't become a part of society. All of them were living on welfare. The other minority of disadvantaged kids came from families in which the parents were disabled mentally or physically in some way and were living off the state. Those kids had no guidance and were in desperate need of some independence and income.

<font color=red>God</font color=red> <font color=blue>Bless</font color=blue> <font color=red>America!</font color=red>

But they were still disadvantaged, and try they may, still did not have the opportunities to make it. Not everyone of them can be reached.

Look out for #1. Don't step in #2 either.

Again, there are always loopholes. No system/setup can help every single person. Watch that movie I told you about, because that's the best example I can think of right now.

Look out for #1. Don't step in #2 either.

But it's better than waiting and having to fire MANY people on account of a recession. The whole reason for minimum wage was to keep inflation in check. That was/is it's purpose.

Look out for #1. Don't step in #2 either.