Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (
More info?)
On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 01:43:50 -0600, Shiflet wrote:
>
> "Last2Know" <grokkalot@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news
an.2005.02.25.04.42.54.619790@yahoo.com...
>
>> The chart shows that with th level 1 WW the chart for the above
>> situation shows that you reach the 6 frame bp at 45% off weapon
>> IAS.
>
> Which is incorrect, as I've said. Wereform IAS works much like the IAS a
> paladin gets from Fanatacism.
I know you've said that, but so far I've only seen you say so on
one side vs. the most detailed information I can find posted
on the net on the other side.
>> And I noted that whether or not more WW points are required will
>> depend on AR, which in turn depends on stat allocation and gear.
>> Most people using a 2 handed weapon without great gear are going
>> to want a few more points there.
>
> I have "great gear" I suppose, but none of it except the weapon and the
> Jalals(which is pretty standard for weredruids) adds anything to my AR.
Huh? You don't have any other plus skills boosting the level
of WW and Fury/Feral Rage? You don't have anything like a
Ravenfrost (admittedly cheap for a non-perfect one)? You
don't have any charms that add to Dex or AR? How the
hell do you get 6.5K AR from 1 skill point in WW and 1 in
Feral Rage without a high +skill level?
>> It gives 15% AR boost per additional level, which is twice what
>> Fury gives per extra level.
>
> Who's maxing Fury for AR? It's maxed for the damage.
Both are required. The point, obviously, is that WW is
the strongest AR adding skill the Druid has.
>> Which shows mainly that your char is high level, presumably already
>> Patriarch/Guardian
>
> Yes, he has finished hell. Doesn't matter though, as his AR has been
> sufficient pretty much since the beginning.
Then it comes from having great gear.
>> and has some great gear.
>
> Well he does, but since almost none of it boosts AR, that doesn't really
> make much of a difference.
You seem to be claiming that you can get plenty high
AR from just one point allocated to WW and 1 pt. to Feral Rage and that
you do this at a medium char level and and it isn't based on your gear
making extra large contributions to your AR (e.g. by providing a high
level of plus skills). Here are the facts:
The base AR of a Druid is Dexterity*5 - 30. If a lvl 70
char uses 2 Dex per lvl, which is more than most Druids do,
he would have a base AR of only 670. WW adds 50% AR at
lvl 1 and 15% more per lvl. Feral Rage adds 20% AR at lvl 1
and 10% more per lvl. So, for example, your char could
get to 3.5K AR with +14 to ShapeShifting skills. If you
were wearing a nice RavenFrost with +20Dex and +200AR
then your base AR would jump to 970, and getting to
a respectable 3.5K AR would still require +8 to
ShapeShifting (which is still nice gear). Its easy
to see how to do this with nice stuff like Maras etc.,
but not easy to see with mid level gear.
>> I agree that 6.5K is plenty AR for PVM play.
I calculate above for just getting to a modest 3.5K AR.
Getting to 6.5K would with that skill point allocation
would really take some special gear.
>>
>> >> I don't normally bother with Feral Rage because of the need to boost
>> >> its AR separately
>> >
>> > There is no such need, get 1 point in it and a few +skills gear(Jalals
>> > alone gives +4 as you mentioned). And I only bother with it to boost run
>> > speed, I don't need the leech from it either.
>> >
>> >> and the damage lost over the time to charge it up.
>> >
>
>> I recently found a Pally GC with +Offensive Aura and +7%FRW.
>> Do you think the FRW significantly adds to the trade value in
>> this case?
>
> No, but honestly, neither would anything else. A 40+ life one would be the
> most valuable, and you could be hard pressed to find a buyer even for that
> one. Offensive Aura GCs are not desired generally, as the 2 most common
> cookie cutter paladins don't need them(Fana zealots can get more damage by
> using max damage/AR charms in place of an off. aura GC, and hammerdins get
> more damage from combat GCs than from off. aura ones).
I understood they are not worth nearly so much as Pally Combat GCs.
A website I saw rated a plain one at Pul. I'm just wondering if
the FRW mod really adds to that.
>> Getting through the tombs with the Mummy shamans is a lot easier
>> with the Wolf than the Barb, because, among other things, the
>> latter has to re-kill so many skeletons to reach the mummys.
>
> Except a barb can just leap or WW to the mummy directly and doesn't have to
> rekill the skeletons at ALL, cause he can kill the mummies first.
I used to do that a lot in 1.09, but its more risky in 1.10.
The crowds are bigger and easier to get stuck in without enough
mana to leap back to safety. Also, it happens a lot that one
can't jump directly to mummy on the other side of a doorway.
>> Right, it's good whether it comes from the vine or from CtA.
>
> But CtA gives you a larger pool, the vine does not. With CtA, you can
> survive hits that might kill you, vine or no vine(cause really, with as big
> a life pool as a druid will have, you have to be taking some pretty heavy
> damage to be at risk in the first place).
>
>> Of course I would be happy to trade the effect of the vine for
>> the CtA but that isn't a relevant option. The question rather
>> is whether the two points in the vine are better than spending
>> them on Fire Claws ore something else.
>
> And I say it's not.
And I say that Fury with Gimmers gives a lot more damage to PIs
without using any additional skill points than you will get with Fire
Claws as a secondary skill. You are complaining about putting two
skill points to get Carrion Vine and you have to spend 2 skill points
before you can even put one into Fire Claws, which itself isn't even
useful at low levels and is hardly useful even maxed without yet
more points in synergies.
>> The last assertion is not true in general (there are certainly some
>> number (greater than 1) of individual IM'd Fury swings that would kill
>> a Fury wolf with an eBotD Thunder Maul and not one with Gimmers),
>
> Honestly, think about it-someone posted here awhile back that the level
> of an okie's IM returns 400% damage. With Gimmers and Fury, you'll be
> dealing in the 1000 physical damage per hit range,
Shrug. I've survived a number of times with similar weapons
and only a bit of damage reduce gear. That probably means the
returned damage is often much less than 400% or the OK itself
has significant physical resistance. Note that the minimum
physical damage on Gimmers is only around 50.
> Unfortunately, wolves have NO real counter to IM, they basically have to
> rely on careful swings(I usually use single hit attacks in IM areas, so
> I'm less likely to get caught in an attack animation), and hope they
> have quick enough fingers to make use of the druid glitch in case they
> DO get IMed in mid swing.
Single swings and just being careful to keep minions and mercs
between you and the OK pack. That works fine for clearing
an area once to get a quest. Obviously one wouldn't want to
rely on that technique for serial XP or MF runs. Among the
new Ladder runewords it would be worth investigating Voice
of Reason as a low cost option and Ice as a high cost one
for the Druid since OKs are generally immune to Fire and rarely
immune to Cold.
>> Because of the way the skill tree works out though, it would better use
>> Rabies with the Gimmers for dealing with the OKs.
>
> Rabies doesn't help much either I'm afraid. My wolf is actually a Rabies
> wolf over a fire wolf, and he deals poison damage in the 21k range, but
> it still takes forever for enemies to die from it unfortunately. And the
> initial bite still does a sizeable portion of physical damage as well,
> I'm afraid, so an IMed rabies bite will hurt as much as an IMed Feral
> Rage swing.
Huh? Feral Rage is a minium 50% and more reasonably 75% increased
physical damage, so Rabies is clearly safer. Also, I'm talking
about using the elemental damage from the Gimmers to kill.
I am certainly quick enough not to die to IM with the Gimmers/Rabies
combo and an Oak Sage using Wolf.
My situation is that I typically have builds/gear combinations that
would suffer without an Act 2 merc and I go through OK areas slowly
because I let the merc kill and try to save him as often as I can
by tp'ing away as soon as he has swirlies. So I don't die to IM
in practice, but since CS and WSK are areas that would be nice
to do runs, it limits the overall utility of the Fury builds (actually
all pure melee for that matter).
Facebook
Twitter
Instagram