Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

CliffyB Disses PC Gaming

Last response: in Video Games
Share
February 14, 2008 3:20:48 PM

http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2008/02/13/gears-of-war-...

Quote:
Epic's CliffyB got all up in MTV's Multiplayer grill dissing PC gaming and state of the industry in general:

“I think people would rather make a game that sells 4.5 million copies than a million and “Gears” is at 4.5 million right now on the 360. I think the PC is just in disarray… what’s driving the PC right now is ‘Sims’-type games and ‘WoW‘ and a lot of stuff that’s in a web-based interface. You just click on it and play it. That’s the direction PC is evolving into So for me, the PC is kind of the secondary part of what we’re doing. It’s important for us, but right now making AAA games on consoles is where we’re at.”

More about : cliffyb disses gaming

February 14, 2008 3:54:41 PM

Damn...

I don't approve of his simplistic view of what PC games are today (um, Cliffy? Shooters are BETTER on the PC). But he's right about the sales breakdown and I give him credit for being honest and saying it publicly, because I guarantee you that a lot of other developers/publishers feel the same way.
February 14, 2008 4:05:33 PM

I have nothing against him (EPIC) making money, I was happy for them when GOW was a big success for EPIC and gave them the money they well deserved but its shows in UT3 that there focus was on the consoles. Rob why dont you do a movie on the state of PC games and the shift of dev to consoles, is this a trend or is it going to be the future?
Related resources
February 14, 2008 4:19:54 PM

"I’m not going to make f—ing ‘Cooking Mama.’ But that’s okay.”

I read that, and the first thing that came to mind was, bizarre image of Cliffy B's Cooking Mama.

Onion Saute'- DOMINATION!


There's also the non trivial question of consoles, and UT3. Do you think that CliffyB and Epic understand what went right and what went wrong, with UT3 and with Gears.

Consider the number of good "Epic Games" type games that were released on the PC last year, to great sales.

He's giving indications of a development path that puts consoles first.
We'll just have to see how well that works out.
February 14, 2008 4:38:36 PM

All PC players:

Players playing UT3 right now: 567
Players playing COD4 right now: 32,820

The #'s speak volumes lill cliffyB.
February 14, 2008 4:52:25 PM

Obviously, Mr. Cliffy is not a Business Man.

Yes, consoles are more profitable right now but...

Rule 1: Never shut down or publicly admit something that would affect one of your potential market. The marketing department must be soooooo mad as they probably worked hard to promote its games on the PC.

Rule 2: 4.5 millions < 5.5 (4.5 + 1 millions). This doesn't make any sense to me. Why would you limit your sales, say 4.5 million unit, when you have the potential on having 5.5 million unit sold in both markets?

The best profitable way of making money on all platforms right now (and this could change) is by releasing games on consoles first and then (say 6 months later) to release them on the PC.

So I agree that we'll see more and more console ports but that PC gaming is only ment for Internet Explorer Flash games? This guy must have been drunk, intoxicated, drugged, or out of his mind when he made such a statement.

However, the question remains; is it worth the effort to do the port if your target sales are at 1 million units? If there is a profit, why not???
February 14, 2008 5:00:26 PM

Alex The PC Gamer said:
Obviously, Mr. Cliffy is not a Business Man.

Yes, consoles are more profitable right now but...

Rule 1: Never shut down or publicly admit something that would affect one of your potential market. The marketing department must be soooooo mad as they probably worked hard to promote its games on the PC.

Rule 2: 4.5 millions < 5.5 (4.5 + 1 millions). This doesn't make any sense to me. Why would you limit your sales, say 4.5 million unit, when you have the potential on having 5.5 million unit sold in both markets?

The best profitable way of making money on all platforms right now (and this could change) is by releasing games on consoles first and then (say 6 months later) to release them on the PC.

So I agree that we'll see more and more console ports but that PC gaming is only ment for Internet Explorer Flash games? This guy must have been drunk, intoxicated, drugged, or out of his mind when he made such a statement.

However, the question remains; is it worth the effort to do the port if your target sales are at 1 million units? If there is a profit, why not???



Well said man. Maybe they should take Infinity Awards approach COD, COD2, COD4 for PC and COD3 for consoles.
February 14, 2008 5:18:27 PM

I hate that statement but unfortunately I think it's right on. People have become plain fed up with trying to run the latest games on their aging dells with integrated graphics. Consumer know better now.
February 18, 2008 6:56:06 AM

Yeah it sucks that console gaming seems to be the big thing as far as money goes, I've really started to hate the limitations of console hardware and how every game, no matter how good the hardware gets, will always have slowdown issues and crap. I'd rather buy an expensive machine that runs games perfectly than a cheap box that barely gets by.

Japanese developers in general don't like to develop for PC, which sucks because some of my favorite game series are from Japanese developers. I always find it ironic that Itagaki from Team Ninja is always attracted to the most powerful hardware, but doesn't make squat for PC lol I'd kill for a PC version of Ninja Gaiden 2!
February 18, 2008 7:12:40 AM

I read it as ... since they are not able to make games like the SIM type or WoW type, they just focus on what they do best and attack the GoW type market? Hence explain why PC market is secondary to them.

That makes sense. And doesn't mean that PC gaming is dead. I often wonder how much Blizzard is making a month from the worldwide subscriptors and how much they will make on day one when another expansion is out.

And by the way, I think Blizzard one time attempted to venture into connsole with their Starcraft brand. I guess console is secondary to Blizzarrd then.
February 18, 2008 7:41:23 AM

robwright said:
I don't approve of his simplistic view of what PC games are today (um, Cliffy? Shooters are BETTER on the PC). But he's right about the sales breakdown and I give him credit for being honest and saying it publicly, because I guarantee you that a lot of other developers/publishers feel the same way.


The thing is, most figures out on PC game sales do not take into account online sales only (e.g. Steam). And maybe even more important, it does not take into account the monthly online subscription fees for MMO's.
I wonder how the picture looks like if that is rectified. I'm pretty sure that you would not see a decline in sales then. Whether it would supersede console game sales (in turnover), I'm not too sure but having more than 10 million WoW players (and that's only the most succesful MMO)) is quite an additional turnover figure ($150 million a month?)

This does not change the fact that console sales have skyrocketed in comparison, obviously.
February 18, 2008 7:42:49 PM

Or could it just be that the Economy sucks and people have less money to spend on a good computer and are just buying consoles :) 
February 18, 2008 8:01:37 PM

blog+MTV, well that's about all I need to know.
February 18, 2008 9:15:45 PM

Well, the US economy has seen better days but it will recover withing the next two years. That being said, I don't think it has a sufficient impact on why consoles are currently blooming compared to the PC slump.

Part 1
There are two ways of looking at the issue:

Publishers' limitations: mostly concentrate on consoles because the revenue is quite better and here, we are not talking about having twice as much but make it 300-500%+ better revenues than publishing on the PC platform. The main issue here is that some publishers believe that it is better for them to publish only on consoles.

Gamers limitations: are leaning more towards the consoles lately for many reasons; the uniform way of gaming which is always simple, user-friendly and practicle. I'm going to stretch and say that it is cheaper to game on consoles as well (although this could be subject to debate). Console gamers are not subject to Securom and such or aren't affected by them for the least. On the other hand, most people already have PCs...but are they good enough for gaming? How much money would you have to spend to make it a gaming rig. Gaming in HD1080p or better is the beauty of PC Gaming but it also comes with a nice price tag.

Part 2
What's best for who?

Publishers: Lots of publishers prefer high profitability of consoles. Some publishers are willing to risk it and not only concentrate on consoles but on multiple platforms. Multi-platform sells are in theory higher and therefore bigger but much more risks are involved. Cross-platform sells might affect one profitable platform and therefore be excluded from the list, etc.

Gamers: Lets face it, consoles are overall cheaper, convenient and much more user-friendly than the PC. The PC offers much better visuals and to some extend better gameplay. Online gaming is, for the most part, better on the PC. That being said, it usually makes more sense for the average gamer to play on consoles. The enthousiasts on the other hand, won't mind paying an extra few hundreds (sometime thoulsands) of dollars to play their games on Very High settings with max AA and Extreme resolutions.

Personally, I'm a PC gamer and I'll support PC Gaming for as long as it makes sense *to me*...but the way it's heading right now, PC gaming will constitute of console ports which will only offer the same but for the PC. So, if PC Gaming doesn't pickup in a year or two, I'm switching to the next gen consoles which I suppose will be in about 2 years.
February 19, 2008 6:42:33 PM

The main thing I will miss is modding pc games. modding communities etc. add so much more to games for the PC. On console this is unavailable(cant count the times on any games forums where a console user of the same game would come on and ask "how do I install mods?". I wouldnt have touched oblivion after the first run through on the console, with mods on the pc I still play it. So if games completely die out on the PC, I just may leave gaming behind altogether. I dont think they will ever "die" heck it may even rebound. right now there arent a whole lot of games out for console or pc im interested in, and the ones I am interested in are on the PC, so it hasnt become a big deal to me yet. It would be less of a transition for me if I can succesfully use a keyboard and mouse on a console.
February 19, 2008 9:57:12 PM

I am personally offended since the "Next-Gen" consoles basically stole the great technology from PCs. Had it not been for the push in PC gaming that we have had in the past decade the consoles would still be like the N64.

This is funny as well since UT, one of the best FPS of all time, got its start on the PC. It was the PC gamers who made it a big hit and allowed "Epic" to expand it to other platforms.

I will never give up PC gaming. And companies such as Vavle(HL2, Portal, TF2, CS:S) obviously never will either as all of their games are built the ground up for PC and then ported to consoles.

I just wounder if he is pissed that there are no plans for Crysis to go on the consoles?
February 19, 2008 10:41:46 PM

*edit

i agree that pc gaming is failing. no one has a good enough pc to play new games anymore. Old 'hardcore' pc gamers keep with it. Its just too bad really. he is right its now the age of the console
February 19, 2008 11:33:03 PM

Please realize that Cliffy B was not dissing PC gaming exactly...he was dissing the fact that publishers have little reason to publish specifically for the pc when they can make much more money making console games.
February 20, 2008 1:23:29 AM

rayzor said:
Please realize that Cliffy B was not dissing PC gaming exactly...he was dissing the fact that publishers have little reason to publish specifically for the pc when they can make much more money making console games.


But you can't just abandon PC gaming in preference for consoles and port to PC's when PC's helped push the foundries of gaming. All consoles use some sort of PC gaming hardwars such as GPU's.

It was PC gaming that helped give the graphics, physics and AI we enjoy even on consoles today. I think consoles are bigger but PC gaming is better and should stay that way. Games have always been better on PC that should never change. Yes we have less games but we have better ones such as Crysis. Nothing on a console even compares to it. Hell the PS3/X360 version of Orange Box has not had the great success as the PC version.
February 20, 2008 1:22:17 PM

I'm kind of glad that Cliffy thinks that about PC gaming. It leaves room for smaller developers to really innovate the platform. Instead of getting the spoon fed same space marine looking shooter with slightly different weapons over and over again, we'll get someone to come up with the next Portal, or Half Life. I hope Cliffy enjoys developing for consoles, it's too bad that his big love of modding on the PS3 will die with the drop of people actually buying his game on the PC.
February 20, 2008 1:30:12 PM

UT3 kinda sucks, it feels like a step back, nowhere near as good as 99 or 2k4.

I played GoW a bit and nearly fell asleep. Sure there's alot of action, but it felt like I ducking behind the same cover over and over, and if I didn't, I was dead :\ , duck hunt, except i'm the duck..

What the PC needs is innovative games, not madden 99.00,01,02 or another ut4, or gow2, unless they bring something substantially new, there is no way i'm trading nhl 93.
February 20, 2008 4:49:21 PM

stemnin said:
UT3 kinda sucks, it feels like a step back, nowhere near as good as 99 or 2k4.

I played GoW a bit and nearly fell asleep. Sure there's alot of action, but it felt like I ducking behind the same cover over and over, and if I didn't, I was dead :\ , duck hunt, except i'm the duck..

What the PC needs is innovative games, not madden 99.00,01,02 or another ut4, or gow2, unless they bring something substantially new, there is no way i'm trading nhl 93.


I agree with you on everything except, nhl 05 is the best!! :p 
February 20, 2008 5:23:20 PM

Yeah, I agree with another of the posters above - if PC gaming dies out, that's prolly it for me and gaming. I just have no interest in the console format.

I still think that it is disingenuous to compare the PC and the consoles as far as development preferences and profit is concerned. Lets be clear about this - it's not a decision to put your game on platform X instead of Y, it's a decision to make a totally different kind of game. If you are a game developer and you go down the console-only road, you should admit that you are going to be developing "games" that are geared to the lowest common denominator. Sure, some of those games can be fun, but they will never be the equivalent of the great PC titles.

So, sure, go down the big profits road - more power to ya - but don't pretend like you are going to be doing any great work.
February 20, 2008 5:35:55 PM

Chazwuzzer said:
Yeah, I agree with another of the posters above - if PC gaming dies out, that's prolly it for me and gaming. I just have no interest in the console format.

I still think that it is disingenuous to compare the PC and the consoles as far as development preferences and profit is concerned. Lets be clear about this - it's not a decision to put your game on platform X instead of Y, it's a decision to make a totally different kind of game. If you are a game developer and you go down the console-only road, you should admit that you are going to be developing "games" that are geared to the lowest common denominator. Sure, some of those games can be fun, but they will never be the equivalent of the great PC titles.

So, sure, go down the big profits road - more power to ya - but don't pretend like you are going to be doing any great work.


Well said!

Best,

3Ball
February 20, 2008 10:54:52 PM

Chazwuzzer said:
Yeah, I agree with another of the posters above - if PC gaming dies out, that's prolly it for me and gaming. I just have no interest in the console format.

I still think that it is disingenuous to compare the PC and the consoles as far as development preferences and profit is concerned. Lets be clear about this - it's not a decision to put your game on platform X instead of Y, it's a decision to make a totally different kind of game. If you are a game developer and you go down the console-only road, you should admit that you are going to be developing "games" that are geared to the lowest common denominator. Sure, some of those games can be fun, but they will never be the equivalent of the great PC titles.

So, sure, go down the big profits road - more power to ya - but don't pretend like you are going to be doing any great work.


I'll second that.
February 21, 2008 2:56:26 AM

Chazwuzzer said:
Yeah, I agree with another of the posters above - if PC gaming dies out, that's prolly it for me and gaming. I just have no interest in the console format.

I still think that it is disingenuous to compare the PC and the consoles as far as development preferences and profit is concerned. Lets be clear about this - it's not a decision to put your game on platform X instead of Y, it's a decision to make a totally different kind of game. If you are a game developer and you go down the console-only road, you should admit that you are going to be developing "games" that are geared to the lowest common denominator. Sure, some of those games can be fun, but they will never be the equivalent of the great PC titles.

So, sure, go down the big profits road - more power to ya - but don't pretend like you are going to be doing any great work.


100000% agreed. Although I am still glad that we have the loyal developers such as Valve that will always prefer PC development. Its like Oblivion. Oblivion is a great game. I have seen the console version and it just looked horrible. very bland and blurry compared to the PC's crisp clear version.

I think that personally PC gaming needs to make a stand of what we are and who we are. We are not like the console gamers as in we prefer better games. Most console games blow I would say 90% of the are not the best. The other 10% are such as Halo was for the XBox but still we have had near perfect games like HL, HL2, Doom3, UT/2k3/2k4, Crysis, TF2, Portal and I could go on. Yea there are ccrappy games for the PC as well but still.

I say we let the multi-platform developers focus on consoles and we focus on giving the good PC devs our full support that way we can have great titles instead of a few good ones and a lot of bad ones. I fully support Valve especially their Steam system as I think that will help PC gaming and be one of the many factors to save it unlike EA's version which is a ripoff. I love C&C3 and all but I think Westwood should have never sold out to EA as EA will try to make money off of every aspect of the C&C universe even if it means throwing them on the consoles first and giving us PC gamers a crappy second hand.
February 21, 2008 1:52:03 PM

I really don't know what to make of that article.

I guess it is good that the PC guys are trying to create more reasonable hardware standards. However, I suspect that this may be in reposnse to a false issue. Console players complain about steep hardware requirements and the difficulty of maintaining a gaming PC, but I suspect that these "complaints" really emerge from 1) console fanboyism and 2) the desire of many people to excuse themselves from ever having to invest any brainwaves in their gaming experience or playing a game that was not designed for a 10 year-old with ADHD. I dunno..... It just seems like a lot of the people that were bitching about how the system requirements for Crysis were too high would have never played the game anyhow.

I hope that they had a bunch of Eastern European game developers there - those are the guys that seems pretty hard-core about PC gaming these days.

Also, the article brought up a point about PC game sales at the end of last year that I think is important. We had a real glut of good games in 2007. I have yet to pick up many of the good titles from last year and will undoubtedly do so in the coming months - I simply have not had the time to play them yet. We're talking about 6 titles and two expansions. So, I suspect that while many games did not have ballistic sales in the first month, we will continue to see fairly good sales continue for a while on a number of titles. Just a suspicion though - purely anecdotal evidence.
February 21, 2008 4:36:53 PM

Obviously he's been smoking some very good stuff, the second article said quote "Stude's figures stated that PC gaming revenue was worth approximately $2.76 billion in 2007, a 12% increase year-over-year from 2006. The forecast for 2008 is an estimated 14% increase over the 2007 revenue." so the money is there, but with one idiot showing his ass what's to say, yes the system requirements are getting pretty steep. but I love COD4, Serious Sam, Doom3,Q4, and FarCry, in 6 months I'll get a 8800 and play Crysis, consoles will never have the feel of computer games and ported games like GoW suck, and the PC games have a longer life so if Epic wants to make consoles go ahead, I'm hoping the new Duke Nukem is as good as the old one just better graphics and some better physics, and hoping that COD5 is better yet, but PC Gaming is not dead, not a 3 Billion dollar a year industry,as for the WoW and Starcraft, their just a different crowd
February 23, 2008 3:46:57 AM

gone fishin' said:
Obviously he's been smoking some very good stuff, the second article said quote "Stude's figures stated that PC gaming revenue was worth approximately $2.76 billion in 2007, a 12% increase year-over-year from 2006. The forecast for 2008 is an estimated 14% increase over the 2007 revenue." so the money is there, but with one idiot showing his ass what's to say, yes the system requirements are getting pretty steep. but I love COD4, Serious Sam, Doom3,Q4, and FarCry, in 6 months I'll get a 8800 and play Crysis, consoles will never have the feel of computer games and ported games like GoW suck, and the PC games have a longer life so if Epic wants to make consoles go ahead, I'm hoping the new Duke Nukem is as good as the old one just better graphics and some better physics, and hoping that COD5 is better yet, but PC Gaming is not dead, not a 3 Billion dollar a year industry,as for the WoW and Starcraft, their just a different crowd


Agreed. Like TF2. That game will be played for a long time. Hell there are still tons of people who play CS. Sure they have upgraded to CSS for better graphics but that game is what? 10 years old now?(1998 release). Some people even still play TFC, HL and all of the other old games like that. How many people pick up a PS1 title ane play it now?

The answer to that is very few. I do just for the memoeries(I play with a emulator on my PC hehe). For games like TF2, Crysis, COD4 and so on they will probably last 5 years or so where as most console games will be old news by then due to the change of consoles. But hey what do we PC gamers know? Epic wants to focus on consoles and miss out on a large chunk of revenue let em. I don't mind. I'll just try not to laugh at their stupidity if PC gaming takes off to higher heghts when they do since better developers will fill their shoes.
February 23, 2008 4:07:14 AM

I recently masde the transition from console gaming to a pc. I could never understand why people would want to use a mouse and keyboard to play games. To me it seemed to complicated. That all change after recently building a new comp and being talked into trying COD4 on it. I was copletely blown away by it. Sure it was a little different than using a controller, but it only took like a half hour of getting my a$$ kicked to start getting familar with the controls. Now, I'll never go back to a console. Yhe game play is so much better and consoles with never be able to compete with a pc in graphics. Also, building a nice gaming pc isn't really all that expensive anymore. I built mine for around $850 including my monitor(about $600 for my tower and everything in it). And People don't realize that a pc is somuch more versitile. Not only can you play games but you can surf the web, watch movies, d/l music and make cd's and countless of other things. So in reality if people would open their minds they would realize that a pc might actually save them money.

Dvd recorder/player: $150 vs $35 for a dvd Rw drive for a pc

Game console $250-$650(depending on which one you buy) vs a good gpu like the 8800GT for $250(and games look far superior on this than they would on any console)

Anyways I'm a pc gamer for life now...

February 27, 2008 5:40:54 PM

The massive rise in console sales is( in my opinion) just another example of the dumbing down of America. Everyone knows pc games are more flexible and have a much longer lifespan. Not to mention that they always look better. People just turn them on throw in the disk and jump on the couch. Not a whole lot of thinking involved. In some cases, like in UT3, which is both pc and ps3, the ps3 users are always whining for the pc guys to cook custom content for them. I just want to say WTF dont you cook it up on your almighty console?? That's right...you can't! My point being, if pc gaming dies, then I'm done gaming. I refuse to play on some watered down toy with a bunch of idiotic teenagers. Just my .02 worth. I feel a little better now. lol :sarcastic: 
February 29, 2008 5:27:33 PM

Seems to me like in the next 5 to 10 years there will be no distiction between consoles and PCs. Consoles are using hardware developed from the PC, CPU and GPU. And now hard drives are becoming a necessity for consoles, as are memory cards (SD) and functions like web browsing. When you look at it that way, I'm basically buying a cheap PC that doesn't do much more than play games.

The only time I every want a console in my house is for when friends come over and you want to play a sports game or Guitar Qweero.
February 29, 2008 6:37:02 PM

the only reason gears of war didnt do very well on the oc is because its a linear awful game that only works on a console, PC gamers have much better games to choose from.
February 29, 2008 6:53:17 PM

Flakes -

Did you play GOW on the PC? Is it really that crappy? I was wondering whether it was worth playing but I have not looked into it much....

March 1, 2008 2:03:06 PM

yes it is, its actually so linear that it basically shows you where enemies are going to come from, for example near the begining you enter a room take cover behind an object and you watch them cut open a door, and then thats the only place the enemies will come from...

theres no realistic damage a headshot is the same as hitting them in the body, the guns sound weak(a nail gun sounds stronger), i i had to choose a category it would be "fisher price - my first fps"
March 1, 2008 2:04:43 PM

on second thought if you liked halo on the pc you will probably like GOW, otherwise buy something else.
!