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Decided to build my own, need help!

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Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
December 12, 2002 7:58:28 PM

After about a year of reading (and some posting) on this forum, I am proud to say that you have all convinced me to forget Alienware. I am going to build my own pc. You have all helped me gain confidence, even though I still feel somewhat scared, and hope that you can help me out. I have no idea about the motherboard, but I need one with hyper-threading (if that is even an option when it comes to motherboards). I just choose the same one that alienware has and voodoo hoping taht it is good, but the reviews make no sense to me. I don’t know where to get the ram, but I want 521mb of pc-1066. All I have found on new egg is non-error correcting ram. Does this mean that you can’t get ECC pc-1066? Also, this is the complete list of what I will order. I have a really weird feeling that I need to order cables, screws, thermal paste, and even a heatsink. Please help me figure out which one is best. Specific models would really help, I am being overwhelmed my jargon. I am set on Intel right now so please no comments that I should change.. information please, not a flame war. Thank you so much!

case Antec PLUSVIEW1000AMG


processor - Intel P4 / 3.06GHz, 512k, 478 Pin, 533 MHz FSB
power supply - ENERMAX EG465P-VE(FM) 430W
motherboard - ASUS P4T533-C.. Not sure
R.A.M - 1066 512MB , don’t know from where


cd-rw - Lite On 52x24x52 CDRW Model LTR-52246
dvd - LITE-ON LTD-166S16X DVD ROM Drive


hard drive - Western Digital 80GB 7200RPM EIDE MODEL # WD800JB
floppy - Alps 3.5 Inch Floppy Disk Drive (Black)


sound card - Creative Labs Sound Blaster Audigy 2
video card - keeping the one I have


Speakers - Klipsch ProMedia 5.1 THX Certified 6 piece
Monitor - NEC/Mitsubishi 22" CRT VGA Monitor Model FE2111SB-BK

More about : decided build

December 12, 2002 9:01:30 PM

Gigabyte 8INXP motherboard $230 (avail late Dec/Early Jan)
Intel P4 3.06GHz 533MHz FSB processor RETAIL
MITSUBISHI 22" DP2070-BK CRT monitor
Seagate Barracuda SATA V 120GB Serial ATA Hard Drive with 8MB cache $180 (can be back ordered <A HREF="http://www.pcconnection.com/scripts/productdetail.asp?s..." target="_new">here</A>)
Lite-On 16x Black DVD Drive (Model#: LTD166) $44
Lite-On 48x24x48 Black CD Burner (Model#: LTR-48246S BLACK) $66
Black MITSUMI D359M3 Floppy Disk Drive (Model#: D359M3D) $11
<A HREF="http://www.coldconcept.com/default.php/cPath/39_42/osCs..." target="_new">Two OCZ 512MB PC3500 Enhanced Latency (EL) Memory Modules</A>
Black Lian-Li PC-61 USB B2 case (Model#: PC-61 USB) $145
Enermax 431W power supply (Model#: EG465P-VE(FMA)) $91
Creative Labs Sound Blaster Audigy 2 Platinum $172
Creative Labs Black Face Plate Kit for Sound Blaster Audigy 2 Platinum Drive $16
Klipsch ProMedia 5.1 Speakers $358
Windows XP Pro Edition (OEM) $130
Logitech Black Elite Keyboard (Model#: 967234)
Logitech MX300 Optical Mouse (Model#: 930762-0403)

Don't invest in RDRAM - a technology on life support. And don't need a monitor that big. I thought of moving to a 22" monitor too, til I saw just how much bigger a 19" monitor's screen is to a 17" monitor's screen.

Quote:
order cables, screws, thermal paste, and even a heatsink

Purchasing these is not required.

What operating sytem do you have?

<i>It's your world kid!!!</i><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by halkebul on 12/17/02 07:36 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
December 12, 2002 9:16:20 PM

Thank you for your input,
why a chieftec case instead of my antec one? Is antec no good? the case seemed rather large, with good air flow, and asthetically pleasing.

Does thermal paste come with the 3.06? or do you not need any?

Also, I have heard that the p4 is only good with pc-1066. Why get DDR400?

And finally, does that motherboard support hyperthreading? I have heard that you need a fairly new motherboard for this.

I just remembered that I should get windows xp OEM for around $99 or I wont really be going anywhere with this computer..
Once again, thanks for the help!
Related resources
December 12, 2002 9:32:08 PM

Quote:
why a chieftec case instead of my antec one? Is antec no good? the case seemed rather large, with good air flow, and asthetically pleasing.

Just updated the case with a Lian-Li case. And went with the enermax power supply. Both will make you happy.

Quote:
Does thermal paste come with the 3.06? or do you not need any?

Everything is included in the processor package.

Quote:
Also, I have heard that the p4 is only good with pc-1066. Why get DDR400?

I never recommend rambus. Maybe somebody else is brave enough.

Quote:
windows xp OEM

Go with the Pro version of Windows XP OEM as oposed to the home version. You never know when you're going to need the extra features provided by the Pro edition.

Still updating my recommendation because i noticed you desire a black computer. Just a minute.

<i>It's your world kid!!!</i>
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
December 12, 2002 9:35:15 PM

I think my case is good.. is there anything wrong with it or are you just stating your taste and opinion? still dont know about the pc-1066, once again, people say that it is what makes the p4 what it is. Anyone have any input on this?
December 12, 2002 10:13:38 PM

Quote:
I think my case is good.. is there anything wrong with it or are you just stating your taste and opinion?

Hello again. Generally for high-end systems, I only recommend Lian-Li, Chieftech for budget systems. Personally, I don't have a problem with your case (Edit: assumed the case included a bundled power supply), it's just that when you go with enermax power supplies, you know for sure that you won't be dissapointed.

Quote:
still dont know about the pc-1066

RDRAM will get you a little more performance out of your P4 but I've yet to find a RDRAM mobo that I would recommend. Based on the knowledge I have aquired, for an expensive build like this one, I would postpone the purchase til Late Dec 2002/early Jan 2003. The price of the 3.06GHz P4 would have gone down some and the eagerly anticipated Gigabyte 8INXP will be available. 8INXP provides dual-channel DDR - doubles memory bandwidth - and suitable for upgrades to future 800MHz QDR FSB Prescott processors. That is my best recommendation. But if you must have a computer now, I have updated my recommended system above. Cheers!

<i>It's your world kid!!!</i>
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
December 12, 2002 10:30:27 PM

OK, i can wait a month. Thanks for that.
btw, if i get an antec case, i can still use an enermax power supply right?
December 12, 2002 10:35:46 PM

Quote:
if i get an antec case, i can still use an enermax power supply right?

Yes, it will work. You are on the right track! Consulting Tom's hardware and all. Let us know how things go, if it's not too much trouble. Cheers! :wink:

<i>It's your world kid!!!</i>
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
December 13, 2002 11:59:01 AM

Looking at the benchmaks at Toms Hardware: http://www6.tomshardware.com/mainboard/20021125/intel_g...

The granite bay board that you aare talking about seems to lag behind the pc-1066 boards. If performance isnt as good, why wait when you have something that performs better?
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
December 13, 2002 11:59:02 AM

Looking at the benchmaks at Toms Hardware: http://www6.tomshardware.com/mainboard/20021125/intel_g...

The granite bay board that you aare talking about seems to lag behind the pc-1066 boards. If performance isnt as good, why wait when you have something that performs better?
December 13, 2002 12:18:20 PM

Yes the ddr boards seem to be the way to go because intel is moving on to dual ddr instead of rambus...although right now rambus still holds the performance crown....if you can wait...I would wait for the sis 655 chipset mobos that support dual ddr333, which will provide alot of competition to rambus.. but for now here are my suggestions
The antec case you chose is a very sweet case....
Motherboards.. *Gigabyte GA-8IHXP2 (rdram platform 16bit pc1066)
*Asus P4PE ( for halkebul =] )
or the Albatron PX845PE PRO IIS with pc 3200 corsair xms

if you do get rdram make sure you get the right kind...the 32bit rambus (rimm 4200) only works in the asus p4t533 the asus p4t533-C doesnt support 32 bit ...you would need to get the 16 bit pc1066...
December 13, 2002 12:36:07 PM

The 8INXP motherboard is not mature yet. Stil only a little bit behind RDRAM. You could easily get it to outperform RDRAM simply by increasing the FSB a little in the BIOS - whole process would take about 30-40 seconds.

The biggest selling points of 8INXP/DDR400+ are future upgradability and Usability. Inserting a 800MHz QDR FSB Prescott processor into a 850E board - I THINK NOT! And DDR400+ memory will be far more usable in the future then 1066MHz RDRAM. In fact the 850E chipset is being replaced by a Dual-Channel DDR solution in 2003.

As a side note, a <A HREF="http://www.ocprices.com/index.php?rev_id=104&page=8&act..." target="_new">new super memory module is now available</A>. It can be purchased <A HREF="http://www.coldconcept.com/default.php/cPath/39_42/osCs..." target="_new">here</A>. I'll update my specs once again to reflect this.

<i>It's your world kid!!!</i>
December 13, 2002 12:53:11 PM

Quote:
I would wait for the sis 655 chipset mobos that support dual ddr333

Hello. Gigabyte 8INXP can also do DDR333 because it has a 1:1 FSB:Memory_Speed ratio. Can do DDR400 too. Just doesn't support DDR333 <b>officially</b> because there's no reason to yet. I can now find 8INXP in online vendor databases using "froogle.google.com". Which means it will soon be available.

Quote:
Albatron PX845PE PRO IIS

Very good board also. Motherboards with 845PE chipset are very solid.

Quote:
pc 3200 corsair xms

civilized, I found some new super memory from OCZ. Check out a <A HREF="http://www.ocprices.com/index.php?rev_id=104&page=8&act..." target="_new">review</A>. A good read. :wink:

<i>It's your world kid!!!</i>
December 13, 2002 4:13:48 PM

I am also planning to get the new GB motherboard and new memory for it(thanks for the advice halkebul). I was planning on getting 2 sticks of DDR 256 ram but I am wondering if I should just get two DDR 400 ram and not worry if I have enough memory. I have never oc'd -anything- but after I build the new computer, I will most likely fiddle with it. Your link leads me to believe that you like the OCZ ram best for the HT mobo. Is that correct?

KhanAlf
December 13, 2002 5:44:11 PM

I would get two OCZ 256MB PC3500 EL memory modules now and then later, down the road, you can add two more of the same exact memory modules, if it's needed - totalling four modules in all (for dual-channel, you need two or four memory modules). All utilizing dual-Channel. But, you could just get it all out the way now and get two 512MB OCZ PC3200 EL memory Modules rite off the bat.

Quote:
Your link leads me to believe that you like the OCZ ram best for the HT mobo. Is that correct?

This is correct. And OCZ engineered this EL memory with High Dual-Channel DDR performance as the main goal.

<i>It's your world kid!!!</i>
December 13, 2002 5:51:06 PM

backflash001, I've increased the size of the hard drive for my recommendation. 80GB is a lot of space but I just want to make sure.

<i>It's your world kid!!!</i>
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
December 13, 2002 10:06:46 PM

I apologize for being a bit slow here, but if i were to purchase a board in early january, which one should i get? Also, which one should i get if i buy in febuary? p4 3.06 HT support too please. This is supposed to be "the ultimate rig", so the best components are what i am aiming for. I really hope that i dont mess this up because there are no compter shops where i live. Anyway, thanks for all your help so far.

Also, i know that the new double ddr board that you mentioned has agp 8x, why dont any of the other boards?
December 13, 2002 10:59:02 PM

8INXP in December and January. For february, a little less certainty, but I don't think things will change much. 8INXP has all of what you need in terms of Performance, Stability, Innovation (<A HREF="http://www.giga-byte.com/products/6dual_miracle/6dual_m..." target="_new">6-Dual Miracle</A>) and upgradability. Note: 8INXP supports hyperthreading and is capable of Dual Channel DDR400 - valuable for possible 800MHz QDR FSB Prescott processor upgrade.

Quote:
This is supposed to be "the ultimate rig", so the best components are what i am aiming for. I really hope that i dont mess this up because there are no compter shops where i live. Anyway, thanks for all your help so far.

I was a little concerned about going with 512MB of memory, which may not be enough 12-18 Months down the line. Because this is an "Ultimate Rig" and you probably don't want to mess around with putting in too many new components (possibly only a 800MHz QDR FSB Prescott processor and GeForceFX Graphics Card) I went on and added 1GB of memory. That is certainly enough for future sake.

Quote:
Also, i know that the new double ddr board that you mentioned has agp 8x, why dont any of the other boards?

Currently, 8x AGP doesn't offer any performance advantage over 4x AGP. 12-18 months down the road? It's difficult to say. Certainly, the software industry is the determinant.

Almost forgot to ask. Do you need firewire? Most people don't, but just want to make sure as the 8INXP doesn't have onboard firewire. If you do, no problem, you can add a firewire PCI card for about $15. And as a general rule, don't put anything in PCI slot 1 - can cause conflicts.

<i>It's your world kid!!!</i>
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
December 13, 2002 11:39:45 PM

Thank you very much. No, i odnt use firewire. If PCI slot 1 is the slot closest to the agp, then i think that the geforce fx needs it for its cooling. I think i will wait for that 8INXP board, but i guess that means that i will not be ordering anytime before early january. Even so, I will try to wait! Thanks again.

btw, i will take photos of the assembly all the way along for you and then post the benchmarks (if i can even get it to work!).
December 13, 2002 11:45:49 PM

Quote:
btw, i will take photos of the assembly all the way along for you and then post the benchmarks (if i can even get it to work!).

Your contributions to this forum are greatly appreciated. Cheers!

<i>It's your world kid!!!</i>
December 14, 2002 6:44:26 AM

halkebul.....thanks for the link man....that is some pretty impressive memory =]
December 14, 2002 11:08:58 AM

Indeed. I was blown away also. Cheers!

<i>It's your world kid!!!</i>
December 14, 2002 3:24:01 PM

Halkebul, you mentioned that the 8INXP doest officially support ddr333 yet, and you suggested to get the ocz-pc3500 with that board, is that type of ram pc333? i went to the link and it didnt say. and if it is, would there be much of a difference getting two 256mb for $220 modules rather then 2 512mb for $452? Btw thanks, all your post have been very helpful, I made up my mind about purchasing the 8INXP but im still not very familiar with the different types of memory just yet....but im working on it :) 
December 14, 2002 3:56:13 PM

Quote:
Halkebul, you mentioned that the 8INXP doest officially support ddr333 yet, and you suggested to get the ocz-pc3500 with that board, is that type of ram pc333? i went to the link and it didnt say.

Hello. Yes. The OCZ memory is PC3500 DDR SDRAM memory but you could also refer to as DDR433 SDRAM memory. PC3500 = DDR433. 8INXP doesnt <b>officialy</b> support speeds higher than DDR266 but that's only because there is no reason to yet. It is capable of DDR400 (and a little faster). The OCZ modules will work in the 8INXP and they are optimized for dual-channel DDR operation. DDR400+ memory is very beneficial both for overclocking and future upgrades.

Quote:
would there be much of a difference getting two 256mb for $220 modules rather then 2 512mb for $452?

At this time, 512MB would be sufficient for most users. Down the road, 12-18 months, I'm not so sure. A year ago it was thought that 256MB was enough but clearly that's not true anymore. If you want to be absolutely sure you have enough memory and have the funds, go for 1GB of memory. So, you actually have two options: two 256MB memory modules now, then two 256MB memory modles later or two 512MB memory modules now. As for the former, a lot of people don't like continuously going inside of the computer and adding components. Cheers!

<i>It's your world kid!!!</i>
December 14, 2002 11:35:40 PM

Hi Backflash,

This may almost be considered heresy on this forum, but something that you may want to consider that will make building your own computer a little more stress free, is have the shop you buy the cpu and motherboard from mount the cpu and heatsink for you. For a nominal charge, they will set the cpu and heatsink on the board with the correct settings and then test it to make sure everything works. This way when you get home, all you need to do is to mount the board in the case, attach the case fans and other connectors and connect all your devices. It will tend to make the process less complicated and less overwhelming and you will know ahead of time that the board and cpu function correctly.

Don't forget to ground yourself :) 

P.S. I have a 22 inch monitor and love it.
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
December 14, 2002 11:56:32 PM

Well, there are not very many computer shops where I live, and the few that are here do terrible jobs and charge a fortune. Although i am a bit nervous, I think that i should try to build it all myself (with the help of all of you at toms hardware and possibly some online guides on building a pc if i can find any). As for making the process less complicated, are faulty mobos or processors common?

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by backflash001 on 12/14/02 08:57 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
December 15, 2002 12:10:42 AM

I haven't found faulty mobos or processors very common at all. However, it is easy if you're not properly grounded or if you do not attach the heatsink correctly for something to happen. If you do the entire thing yourself, just go slowly. I always take my time when building a computer and check and double check and even triple check everything. By being very careful I have had success so far in my computer working when it's first booted. Important thing is to make sure you're grounded at all times. If you are, you should be ok. :) 
December 15, 2002 2:09:21 AM

backflash001, analyzing the specs once again, i'm sure the "Ultimate Rig" is your desire, but I don't think 3.06 CPU is good price/performance. A lower speed CPU won't get you hyperthreading (provides a little more umph) but I feel a Pentium4 2.66GHz, though not hyperthreading enabled, would be a better choice. The Pentium4 2.66GHz processor isn't 3GHz but it can reach 3GHz by overclocking. The Pentium4 2.66GHz at its' default speed is plenty fast though. I've updated the specs once again to reflect this.

<i>It's your world kid!!!</i>
December 15, 2002 8:20:00 AM

How long are you planning on keeping this system before upgrading it? If it's going to be 2 years or more, then you're not going to worry about upgrading to a processor that'll be available Q2 next year. If I had my heart on buying a dual DDR solution I'd wait until the newer chipsets natively supporting Dual DDR come out next year.

Quote:
and suitable for upgrades to future 800MHz QDR FSB Prescott processors.


Everything I've read on the Intel E7205 chipset (including Gigabyte's website on the <A HREF="http://tw.giga-byte.com/products/8inxp_spec.htm" target="_new">GA-8INXP</A>) says that it only supports a 533MHz front side bus. How is it going to support 800Mhz in the future? Or do you mean that the memory it uses will be compatible with a motherboard that uses a future chipset that supports 800MHz?
December 15, 2002 8:54:13 AM

Quote:
If I had my heart on buying a dual DDR solution I'd wait until the newer chipsets natively supporting Dual DDR come out next year.

Hello NovaKain. The Gigabyte 8INXP, which supports DualDDR, will be available Late Dec 2002/Early Jan 2003.

Quote:
Everything I've read on the Intel E7205 chipset (including Gigabyte's website on the GA-8INXP) says that it only supports a 533MHz front side bus. How is it going to support 800Mhz in the future? Or do you mean that the memory it uses will be compatible with a motherboard that uses a future chipset that supports 800MHz?

<b>Officially</b> it supports up to 533MHz QDR FSB. It is very capable of 800MHz QDR FSB. They don't officially support over a 533MHz QDR FSB because there's no reason to yet. An 800MHz QDR FSB Prescott processor will certainly be compatible with the Gigabyte 8INXP. Cheers!

<i>It's your world kid!!!</i>
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
December 15, 2002 12:58:59 PM

halkebul, if anything, the lowest i will drop will be to a 2.8ghz p4. I am not very keen on overclocking as I am still worried about getting the pc to work on a normal build. Besides, I wouldnt think that the stock heatsink and thermal paste does that good a job. Looking at your sys specs again, why a Turtle Beach santa cruz sound card instead of the audigy 2?

NovaKain, I am planning on keeping my system about 2 years, but i will upgrdade it at least once a year. I am hoping to get all the parts I need shipped in early january so that i can start working on it mid-jan 2003.

P.S. Is there a more specific release date for the 8INXP than december/january? Is there a roadmap site were I can find this out?

P.P.S I live in jamaica now, would i still be able to use that enermax psu?
December 15, 2002 2:20:54 PM

if you go to pricewatch.com now and search "8INXP" one comes up now @ Royal Computers for $222 with a ETA of 12/31/02, also I am also planning on getting the audigy2 platimun card myself because of the front panel input options for home recording and being 6.1 should make those klipsh 5.1 speakers sound awesome with dvd's and gaming(is what im building this for).
December 15, 2002 4:23:23 PM

Quote:
halkebul, if anything, the lowest i will drop will be to a 2.8ghz p4. I am not very keen on overclocking as I am still worried about getting the pc to work on a normal build. Besides, I wouldnt think that the stock heatsink and thermal paste does that good a job. Looking at your sys specs again, why a Turtle Beach santa cruz sound card instead of the audigy 2?

Generally among the audigy1 and turtle beach santa cruz, the cruz is considered to be the better sound card. The Audigy 2 is excellent but I couldn't justify spending the extra money for the card. thistledown makes a good point. Audigy 2 does have a lot of extra features that may be usefull down the road. I'll update the specs.

Quote:
halkebul, if anything, the lowest i will drop will be to a 2.8ghz p4. I am not very keen on overclocking as I am still worried about getting the pc to work on a normal build. Besides, I wouldnt think that the stock heatsink and thermal paste does that good a job.

When going with best and second best, 2.8 and 3.06 in this case, I always go with the best. Everytime you sit down to your computer, I don't want you to be thinking: "I wonder what it would've been like to have hyperthreading?" or "I wonder what it would've been like to have 3GHz?"

Quote:
P.P.S I live in jamaica now, would i still be able to use that enermax psu?

Yes, no problem here.

It's good that all of these issues are being openly discussed. Specs updated once again to reflect our discussion.

<i>It's your world kid!!!</i>
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
December 16, 2002 12:01:32 AM

just to make sure:
thermal paste is supplied in the retail package of a processor, right?
Also, I have seen many heatsinks and thermal paste for sale online. Are stock heatsinks and thermal paste no good?
December 16, 2002 12:03:58 AM

Quote:
just to make sure:
thermal paste is supplied in the retail package of a processor, right?
Also, I have seen many heatsinks and thermal paste for sale online. Are stock heatsinks and thermal paste no good?

Everything you need to cool the processor is contained in the box. And the intel cooling is quite good. I commend Intel in that regard.


<i>It's your world kid!!!</i>
December 17, 2002 9:23:54 PM

Just updated the specs once again. No disappointments on this one. Extremely high quality system. No doubt about it.

<i>It's your world kid!!!</i>
!