New PC P4 recommendations

[Han]

I have gained alot of insight reading the posts here. There are alot of very knowledgable people here.

I am looking to buy a new P4 and my main question is which mobo to get.

I'm not looking to buy something high-end as it looks like a number of developments are going to make any choice now obsolete in a very short time. Dual DDR being one of them.

So for now I'd like to go with something like this:

-P4 2.2-2.4Ghz with option of updating to 3Ghz+ later
- 5-6 PCI slots.
- 2-3 Gb available for ddr ram
- Onboard audio

I plan to get a fairly cheap video card, maybe 32mb, and upgrade later. The same with a sound card.
I see no need for RAID.
Am I correct that you can buy PCI cards that will give you SCSI, USB 2.0, and Firewire? I'd prefer to save money on the board and simply insert a card if I need to.

I'm just looking to get a mobo that is pretty much stripped down but will allow for alot of upgrading as needed.

As far as I've seen the P4GE is a good candidate. (key word being 'as far as I know')

It would obviously be best to get a board that supports the fastest ram, but I believe I will have to upgrade to a new mobo in the next year and a half to two years anyway so am thinking ddr 266mhz may be enough for now. Maybe 333.

Also, I'm not sure what the difference is between ATA, DMA, and UDMA. Which choice would be best?

To my own limited experience it appears Asus, Gigabyte, and maybe Abit or Soyo are the top three or four companies for motherboards for the P4. Any other opinions on that? Anyone have a different top three?

Anyway, thanks ahead of time for any info you would like to leave here. My current pc is a K5-133 so the money is burning a hole in my pocket to upgrade right now!

Thanks again.



james




<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Han on 12/16/02 04:05 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[halkebul]

So for now I'd like to go with something like this:

-P4 2.2-2.4Ghz with option of updating to 3Ghz+ later
- 5-6 PCI slots.
- 2-3 Gb available for ddr ram
- Onboard audio

Hello. To add to the good information already provided, only a Granite bay motherboard will allow for worthwhile processor upgrades. I highly recommend you wait for the Gigabyte 8INXP motherboard, no matter what it costs. You can get a cheaper motherboard now, but boy are you going to be surprised to find out later that you need a motherboard with Dual Channel DDR in order to fulfil the high bandwidth needs of the future Pentium4 Prescott.

My Recommendation
-----------------
Gigabyte 8INXP Motherboard (avail late dec 2002/early Jan 2003)
Intel Pentium4 2.4B Processor RETAIL
Two <A HREF="http://www.coldconcept.com/default.php/cPath/39_42/osCsid/bacb71282522ff2370ab505db85302d5" target="_new">OCZ 256MB PC3500 Enhanced Latency (EL) memory modules</A>
Chieftec Case (without power supply)
Enermax EG465P-VE(FMA) 431W Power Supply

WARNING: DO NOT go cheap on motherboard, memory and power supply. It will hurt you later!

<i>It's your world kid!!!</i>

 

[Novakain]

Halkebul, can you post some links to sites that discuss the possibility of the Granite Bay chipset supporting the newer Prescott processors? The information would be greatly appreciated.

 

[halkebul]

Hello. Prescott is Socket 478. Prescott will have 800MHz QDR FSB (maybe other processors with lower FSB). Granite Bay can support any Socket 478 processor. Gigabyte 8INXP is capable of supporting 800MHz QDR FSB processors already and is capable of Dual-DDR 400. That is, The only requirements needed in order to support all prescotts are socket 478, 800MHz QDR FSB and capable of DualDDR400 (not actually a requirement, more of a recommendation) - Gigabyte 8INXP is capable of all of these including DualDDR400. It can support prescott, but they just don't say so officially because there is no reason to yet. The same can be said of the Asus A7N8X Deluxe nForce2 motherboard. Ofcourse it can support the future 400MHz DDR FSB barton processor, but they haven't said so officially because there's no reason to yet. It has less to do with press clippings and more to do with the understanding of computer architecture itself. No doubt, you are learning much here today. Cheers!

<i>It's your world kid!!!</i>

 

[o1die]

I would recommend the albatron px845 pev pro ($85 shipped newegg) with the 2.4B (about$193). Some have reported cold boot issues with the 845pe chipset, but I can't verify them. Check newegg's refurbished section daily for deals on customer returns for cpus, mobos, video cards, cases, etc. The best deals sell out fast (some in minutes).

 

[Novakain]

I am always learning. As far as I'm concerned. No-one knows everything, and I can always be wrong. That's why I cruise these kinds of forums - to get information. But let me get this straight - and please correct me if I'm wrong - you are basing your claim that Intel's E7205 chipset <b>will</b> support Intel's new Prescott line of processor's with an 800MHz front side bus because you personally have an understanding of computer architecture itself? and that's it? No press releases or white papers from Intel, Gigabyte, Asus, Iwill, or whatever. Not even a clipping from the enquirer?

I know information on Prescott is sketchy at best and hard to find - there's no real hard information out there on it. A search on Intel's site for Prescott reveals nothing. But as far as most sites on the subject are concerned, <b>Canterwood and Springdale are the chipsets that will support Prescott, not the E7205</b>.

Here is some supporting information:

<A HREF="http://endian.net/details_compare.asp?ItemNo=3028&ItemNo=3773" target="_new">endian.net: Quick Specs Compared, Intel E7205 Vs Intel Canterwood</A>

<A HREF="http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=6289" target="_new">The Enquirer: Intel's 800MHz Canterwood edges out Granite Bay... early</A>

<A HREF="http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=6676" target="_new">The Enquirer: Intel's Pentium 4 in 2003: Life gets complicated</A>

<A HREF="http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=6394" target="_new">The Enquirer: Intel confirms DDR-400, 800MHz boxed motherboards</A>

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1752&p=2" target="_new">Anandtech: Intel's 800MHz FSB & AMD's 400MHz FSB</A>

And of couse, there's the spec sheet on the <A HREF="http://tw.giga-byte.com/products/8inxp_spec.htm" target="_new">Gigabyte 8INXP</A>. It doesn't say anywhere anything about supporting an 800MHz front side bus - let alone Prescott. What reason would they want to say that they support this you ask? The best reason of all - good marketing. Imagine how many people would buy that motherboard if they knew that it would support future Intel processors?

The only requirements needed in order to support all prescotts are socket 478, 800MHz QDR FSB and capable of DualDDR400 (not actually a requirement, more of a recommendation)

Now, you may be right, the 8INXP may support Prescott. I can't say for sure if it does or doesn't because I haven't seen any hard evidence that says it does or does not. I've never tried running a Prescott processor in a motherboard with an E7205 chipset for example. And unless you work for Intel's R&D department, I'll bet you haven't either. From what I've seen, the indication is that the E7205 chipset will not support the 800MHz bus and therefore Prescott.

I apologise for the rant off subject but my point is this: <b>Because you haven't backed up your statement with written evidence it sounds like you're dangerously basing your claim on assumption.</b> Remember I don't know you from Adam.

 

[halkebul]

From what I've seen, the indication is that the E7205 chipset will not support the 800MHz bus and therefore Prescott.

Hello again. Good points. But Granite Bay <b>must</b> support 800MHz QDR FSB processors because 800MHz QDR FSB processors will arrive <b>before</b> any motherboard with chipsets <b>officially</b> supporting 800Mz QDR FSB become widely available. I guess I should have mentioned that before. If you have any further doubts about whether Granite Bay can achieve 800MHz QDR FSB read <A HREF="http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20021216/p4_41-02.html" target="_new">this</A>. A good read. Well, there's two approaches, official or understanding of computer architecture and understanding of the market. You have your way and me mine. Gladly, we can agree to disagree. Cheers!

<i>It's your world kid!!!</i>

 

[Han]

-You'll definitly want P4PE as I'm sure you're not going to use Intel's crappy intergated graphics are you?-

So the P4GE has integrated graphics and you can't turn them off? No that is definitely not what I am looking for. Prefer a board with no onboard graphics and will just add a card.

-You said there's no point of getting onboard RAID as this adds to the cost, but if you were to buy a separate RAID card later, you'll regret how much it'll cost you rather than by a mobo with RAID now for only a few extra dollars.-

Well I don't see a need for RAID at all for my home pc use.
I understand it would add some speed but the gain wouldn't really benefit me that much. (at this point in time)
I am looking at this new pc lasting for a year and a half to two years, at which time I would get a new mobo and cpu anyway, so am not looking to buy the higher end components.
Just something at or below the break point. i.e. the 3ghz runs $700 for cpu and the 2.8 runs $300 or so. Big price difference and not much power difference. That is why I am looking at a 2.4 for now. Fairly cheap but alot of power.

-My basic theory is to get the best possible mobo you can get now cuz if you ever want to upgrade later, you'll be saving a lot of money!-

This was also my idea on what mobo to get but since all new cpu's, dual ddr, 8x agp, and new chipsets will be coming out in a few months, I decided to go with pc and components that are, as I said, below the break point for price. In two years I can sell this current setup used and buy a new board and cpu. Actually this seems to be the norm now. Anything you buy today is of course obsolete in a year or less but a P4 system is going to work very well for a few years in any case. I am sure a year from now there will be 16x agp or higher, 4-5ghz cpu's, etc..etc.. Am looking to build a pc now that is fairly cheap but not too cheap.

Thanks alot for responding and for the info!


james

 

[Han]

From halkebul:

-Hello. To add to the good information already provided, only a Granite bay motherboard will allow for worthwhile processor upgrades. I highly recommend you wait for the Gigabyte 8INXP motherboard, no matter what it costs. You can get a cheaper motherboard now, but boy are you going to be surprised to find out later that you need a motherboard with Dual Channel DDR in order to fulfil the high bandwidth needs of the future Pentium4 Prescott.-

I appreciate the idea of getting the newest mobo to make way for near future upgrades but the price is more than I want to pay at the moment. My first instinct was also to get the most advanced mobo but even that will be obsolete a year from now and I am planning on replacing whatever I get now in a year and half or two years anyway. By that time all the new stuff coming out in the next six months or a year will have dropped dramatically in price.

-My Recommendation
-----------------
Gigabyte 8INXP Motherboard (avail late dec 2002/early Jan 2003)
Intel Pentium4 2.4B Processor RETAIL-

What is the difference between the 2.4 and the 2.4b?

-Two OCZ 256MB PC3500 Enhanced Latency (EL) memory modules
Chieftec Case (without power supply)
Enermax EG465P-VE(FMA) 431W Power Supply-

Again all stuff I would LOVE to get, but too pricy at present. Looking for a more 75% solution.

-WARNING: DO NOT go cheap on motherboard, memory and power supply. It will hurt you later!-

Understood. I will keep this in mind as I decide on what to go with.

Thanks for the comments. Greatly appreciated.



james

 

[Han]

-I would recommend the albatron px845 pev pro ($85 shipped newegg) with the 2.4B (about$193). Some have reported cold boot issues with the 845pe chipset, but I can't verify them. Check newegg's refurbished section daily for deals on customer returns for cpus, mobos, video cards, cases, etc. The best deals sell out fast (some in minutes).-

Thanks for the recommendation. I will check out the px845.
Wondering if anyone else has heard any negatives about the 845pe cs.

Thanks again.



james

 

[halkebul]

What is the difference between the 2.4 and the 2.4b?

The 2.4B is the one you want. It has the faster 533MHz QDR FSB. The 2.4 has only a 400MHz QDR FSB.

<i>It's your world kid!!!</i>

 

[halkebul]

Wondering if anyone else has heard any negatives about the 845pe cs

The 845PE chipset is very solid.

<i>It's your world kid!!!</i>

 

[Han]

Thanks for the info on the 2.4b halkebul.

I think I'm going to go with an Asus p4pe mobo.
A local pc shop that supplies all the computers for my employer (1000+ employees) is recommending I use an MSI motherboard instead of Asus. He is also pushing an MSI video card.

Anyone know about MSI? I haven't heard of them before.

Thanks again for the info.

Currently going with:
p4pe asus mobo
p4 2.4b cpu
256mb ddr ram
40-60gb hd 7200
ti-4200 either 64mb or 128
Antec case black either mid or full case
probably 350 or 400watt ps




han

 

[jjwa]

about MSI:
They are one of the bigger and better mobo manufacturers...
Ask him what particular MSI mobo he would like you to buy and check out some reviews of it...

MSI videocards often have a reference design with a little bit better cooling, nice quality parts and seems to OC a bit better than most other brands.


good luck

 

[jjwa]

I agree with Han's recommendation but I have some things to say about it...

>Gigabyte 8INXP Motherboard (avail late dec 2002/early Jan >2003)
I agree a 100%, I am going to buy it myself too, it's probably going to cost about 260 euro

>Intel Pentium4 2.4B Processor RETAIL-
Ok, be sure to take a Boxed one and try to get a C1 stepping if you want to OC.

>What is the difference between the 2.4 and the 2.4b?
2.4(a) has a 400mhz fsb and the 2.4b has a 533mhz fsb.

>-Two OCZ 256MB PC3500 Enhanced Latency (EL) memory modules
I think PC2700/DDR333 speed memory will surely do.
If you oc your fsb from 133mhz to 166 (will end up as almost 3 Gigaherz with a 2,4 Ghz CPU) the memory will run at PC2700/DDR333 speeds, so the ram won't even be OC'ed then!
So I really think faster than that will be needless overkill!
Like Han already said, don't get cheap noname ram, take a good brand like:
Corsair, Kingston, Micron, OCZ, Apacer, Dane Elec or Infineon. If you want it a bit cheaper take Samsung, still quite good but cheaper.


>Chieftec Case (without power supply)
Nice cases, I have ordered a Thermaltake Xaser case, which is a Chieftec case with some nice stuff on it, take a look here: http://www.thermaltake.com/products/caseMenu.htm
They are more expensive but I think they look really cool
I have ordered the black one with a big window.

>Enermax EG465P-VE(FMA) 431W Power Supply-
Enermax is good, but expensive...
If you want it a bit cheaper and/or want more power you could take a Qtec 550 watt, it has a nice bunch of power and gives quite positive results in reviews (I have also read a lot of positive users experiences of it).
It is cheap, I have bought one for only 45 euro's!
Normal price to get it in The Netherlands is about 55 euro.

>-WARNING: DO NOT go cheap on motherboard, memory and power >supply. It will hurt you later!-
I agree, beware of cheapass [-peep-]!
It can make your system totally instable and [-peep-]-up.
Some cheap parts can even damage other parts (if your powersupply goes [-peep-] it can burn your mobo for example).


Have fun buying


oh, btw, I am waiting for the Gigabyte GA-8INXP, but when I've got it, this will be my system:
<A HREF="http://www.annot.net/jjwa/specs" target="_new">My (near-future) System Specs</A>
(I already ordered the case, the Hercules will be ordered together with the Gigabyte)
Yes, it's about the same as I recommend, but that's because I have done a lot of "research" on what is the best to buy, and now I'm trying to help other people to buy nice stuff too