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Best Old School PC Games

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April 1, 2008 10:42:41 AM

After just reading a post about how good games these days are being determined by hows great they look in the graphics department, I just wanted to drop a nostalgic post about why a good game is all down to game play, immersion, atmostphere and old school innovation.

For example, to start us off. Pioneer games such as Command and Conquer for the RTS were amazing and revolutionary due to the fact that the sole focus off the game was good old fashion strategy gameplay dynamics. Riflemen > Rocketmen, Humvee > Soldiers, Tanks > Humvee etc. Make no mistake, when C&C came out it was a notch above the rest in terms of graphics ( i mean you could actually see the pixelated soldiers dropping to the floor to do push ups when they were idle! ).
The maps were diverse, the campaign & story line were unparelleled and totally engaging and it had great Cinematics.

The purpose of this post is too just discuss the merits of the old greats of the PC gaming era - Im interested to see peoples thoughts on the topic and what they think were great old school games and what made these games stand out amoung the multitude.

Does anyone remember Reunion or Masters of Orien - what about StarControl or Privateer 2. Man I miss the old days!

Feel free to reminisce ;) 

More about : school games

April 1, 2008 11:20:53 AM

You can find posts along this line in many currently ongoing threads.

Deus Ex, need I say more?
April 1, 2008 12:24:06 PM

Ye Dues Ex - a total classic. Large maps, lots to do, huge range of weapons and skills and augmentations :)  I remember playing it loads of times trying to explore each map fully. And the story line was good too.
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April 1, 2008 12:29:38 PM

Privateer 2... That was a fun game, but suffered a major flaw, it was one of the last games that required you to drop to DOS to play it and as a result a lot of people never gave it a chance due to the complexity required to get it running. Once you did get it going, it was great up until the second to last plot battle which was for all intents and purposes, impossible. I never beat the game and my game disks were destroyed in a move.


Deus Ex, now there is a game that is truly peerless. That is everything FPSs should have always been and yet there has never been another game since or before that measured up to it. Noone Lives Forever and System Shock 2 were similar in some ways but ultimately took their own paths. Both were great games but nothing lived up to Deus Ex.


Master of Orion and MOO2. Oh the hours I lost playing these games. Its a shame they never made a Master of Orion 3. No matter what anyone says no true sequel was ever made for those legends of gaming.


Elite, Elite 2, Elite 2 plus, and Elite 2 Frontier. This series of games were the definition of immersive when I was young. Exploring, trading, mining, bounty hunting, etc. You picked what you did. It was in many ways the true beginning of the sandbox style game.
April 1, 2008 1:42:22 PM

Im studying in Europe right now and all I have is my crappy laptop, but Im replaying Deus Ex and loving it! Hands down one of my all time favorites.
April 1, 2008 1:49:34 PM

Quake, Quake 2, Quake III Arena, Unreal, Unreal Tournament, Jedi Knight: Dark Forces 2, Blood, Blood 2, Duke Nukem 3D, Shogun Warrior.... they will all remain my favorites... :( 
April 1, 2008 2:05:16 PM

I used to have these 2 old small games that just owned at the time. The first was cannon fodder which had immense replayability and the second was called Stronghold ( before the firefly series came out ) which was an awesome castle building and community/war managing game. Shogun Warrior and Duke Nukem 3D took hours of my life away, and Im glad for it. They had true atmosphere. < "Shake it baby!" >

In terms of time syncs I remember surrendering my youth to the likes of Fallout1, Fallout2 and Tactics ( which was a truly great next move in the series but I am aware that it did dissapoint some people - i think i might have played tactics the most incidentally ). The post apocalyptic adult atmosphere in the series was IMHO truly unparalled. Loved a close range AK47 to an enemy - they would literally split apart in the most creative ways. It set a tone for that type of RPG leveling system and the feat, skill and attribute allocation is what drove the game.

@ infornography42

I still have the Privateer Disks lying around somewhere at home. Tried to jam it a few years back but even using MoSlow app the game was just tooooooooooo fast. 4CDs of amazingness. Full Motion Video movie story sequences with none other that Clive Owen as Sir Lev Arris. It just stuck with me. Ye - i think i wasted my entire school holiday replaying the game till i could beat the last few battles; which were, as you alluded to before, utter madness in terms of the scale of enemy ships, bases and numbers.

EDIT: And you know the best thing about old games. There was NO patching option in the good old days. When a game was released : it worked. period.
April 1, 2008 2:28:23 PM

DannyBoy27 said:
There was NO patching option in the good old days. When a game was released : it worked. period.


Or.. it didn't and then you were truly f*d
April 1, 2008 3:09:04 PM

Lol - Ye. I do actually remeber an unpassable bug in one of the Sierra games. Cant recall - I spend a few very expensive minutes to the call centre in the US for help but it was a worthless exercise. The net wasnt that large at all so nobody would write a review on THW on how you couldnt procede after the first 30mins; or recommending to stay away from it. But those games were very rare as games were aware of how severe a bug was and so they would ensure the game was polished and sleek and tested...
April 1, 2008 3:33:00 PM

Yeah, pretty much a lost concept with games, finish it before you sell it. I actually get excited when I see things like WAR Online getting pushed back to polish it more.
April 1, 2008 3:53:22 PM

This is turning into a "remember the good old days" topic, which only serves to show that all people participating here (myself included) are getting old.

What would be interesting is by remembering old games, what was good about them and what was bad about them, to see what the aspects are a good game should at least have.

Perceived freedom of movement and choice is a very important one for me. And paradoxically it gets even worse or more important the more freedom you get. For me it is a real turnoff to find myself in a situation where I could only get in the first place because of lots of freedom, where suddenly all my options/choices are taken from me (for instance, I found the end of a map where i did not expect it to be).

April 1, 2008 4:42:14 PM

infornography42 said:
Its a shame they never made a Master of Orion 3.

They did. It was awful.
April 1, 2008 4:59:55 PM

If you really want to date yourself....

Does anyone remember how you had to hack your config.sys and autoexec.bat files to get any game from Origin to work?

Does anyone remember when flight sims were king? Falcon? Falcon 3.0 anything from Damon Slye or Microprose?

How about SSI and all those great sims?

I'm getting old. Hell, I know that. I just don't want to do what old farts do. My first kid's graduated from college and is married.

My first game was Zork, the text based game before there was, gasp! Sound and animation.
April 1, 2008 6:05:42 PM

I have to say, some of my favorites are the Ultima series, Fallout series, and Wing Commander series...There are some other, older ones, but alas, I can't remember theirs names.
April 1, 2008 7:02:28 PM

Soldier of Fortune - Still playing it online :D 

Quake 1 + 2

Doom

Castle Wolfenstien (back in the cyrix 133 etc days)

Duke Nukem

Sometimes I feel like building an old system about £100 and running these games on their just for fun with Win 98SE and 2GB/ 1GB of ram
April 1, 2008 9:24:38 PM

llama_man said:
They did. It was awful.


No, they didn't I refuse to acknowledge that complete waste of $50.00.

I'd similarly like to see someone make a real sequel to Deus Ex. ;-)
April 1, 2008 10:36:33 PM

The best game I have ever played is Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis
April 2, 2008 2:03:05 AM

Im not very old, so I can't be much help. What I would like to say is that I grew up playing Dune (the one before the 3D one wich sucked)and it is one of my favorite games ever. I remember calling by dad at work one time because I was so excited when I discovered the Death Hand Missile or something like that (harkonnen special weapon). I loved that game.
April 2, 2008 2:12:13 AM

Hmmm.....

Fallout 1/2
Ultima III
X-Wing/Tie-Fighter/X-Wing Alliance
Privateer I (Private II was good, but not classic)
Civilization II
Master of Orion 2
Master of Magic
Silent Service

E.T. (for Atari 2600).... j/k

April 2, 2008 10:38:59 AM

Elite, Elite plus. Elite frontier, (first encounters Ive never really been sold on)
wolfenstein 3d
xwing, tiefighter etc
X - beyond the frontier
Star Wars Galaxies - old enough to count?
Mech warrior?
leisure suit larry :D 
Dark forces
Seem to remember a star trek game that I liked a lot at the time, came on a massive amount of cd's :D .
I guess sim city and the sims deserve an honourable mention

Games that I remember being hyped for their graphical innovation but being huge dissapointments to play:-

Rebel Assault
rise of the robots

Looking at the list most of the best of old school games were touted for their graphics at their release :D  Lets face it oblivion will have well and truelly earned its place on these lists in a few years time, another title famed for its graphics but also featureing great game play.

April 2, 2008 10:39:51 AM

Anyone remember M.U.D.S. ? I loved it and even replayed it some time ago.
April 2, 2008 11:17:50 AM

Oh crap, I forgot all about Silent Service. I loved that game.


Aziraphale, you mean MUDS in general or are you referencing something specific. I played 3 Kingdoms once upon a time for a long time, but finally quit when they nerfed my guild to oblivion. Lots of fun and pretty much the predecessors to the current MMO era.
April 2, 2008 11:18:57 AM

Heres another one I have fond memories of... Xcom.
April 2, 2008 11:38:11 AM

Cannon Fodder and Return Fire
April 2, 2008 11:52:53 AM

Man, I was about to state the xcom series. The time i spent jamming xcom1 and then 2 with a mate holed up in his room was staggering. Hell, I still play the UFO series religiously. There is a mod for UFO:Afterlight that does great things for balancing, content and gameplay - Total Rebalancing mod i think it was called. Even so they cant capture that spooky atmosphere of the xcom series.

Constructor needs a mention too - fun construction game.
And lemmings :) 

I also enjoyed the ultima series, in particular Ultima8 for some reason as well as the offshoot : Savage Empire ( which also involved you playing with the avatar ).

PS: Who can remember the avatar character being the main badguy ( goodguy actually ) at the end of Dungeon Keeper. ( Possibly dungeon keeper 2??? )
April 2, 2008 12:40:37 PM

i would simply like them to remake Dues Ex, keep the same story and maps etc, just update the graphics... if its not broken dont fix it analogy. i also wish some one would rename invisble war(remove Dues ex from the name) that game was no where near worthy to carry the Dues Ex name.

i loved zork! it was hard though, a troll kept killing me when i left a room full of gold.

Dungeon Keeper, i loved that simply because i could control the beasties.

April 2, 2008 1:18:13 PM

I try to post a reply to this thread and it says "Thread doesn't exist"... I'm like but yes it does... Its right there in front of me!! Oh dear THG WTF...

Nobody has mentioned:
#Red Faction 1

with its groovy destructible landscape!!
(but not the lame sequel obviously)


Shame on you guys!!

Bob
April 2, 2008 1:24:02 PM

Some of my favourite PC games and PC game series (which I still remember) from the period of 1990-1996: Wolfenstein, Doom, Quake, Future Shock/SkyNet, System Shock, Dune 2, Command & Conquer, Xcom/UFO, Prince of Persia, Wax Works, King Quest, Star Quest, Leisure Suit Larry, Indiana Jones and Fate of Atlantis, Eye of the Beholder, Cannon Fodder, Colonization, Civilisation, Star Control, Master of Orion, Master of Magic, Space Hulk, Warhammer, Rise of Dragon, Mortal Kombat, One Must Fall, Alone in the Dark, Elder Scrolls, Ultima, Ultima Underworld, Lands of Lore, Ravenloft, Menzoberranzan, Stonekeep, Mechwarrior, Star Siege, TerraNova, Magic the Gathering, Magic Carpet, Elite, Falcon, Xwing, Tie Fighter, Rebel Assault, Dark Forces, Wing Commander, Privateer, Silent Service, Pirates!




April 2, 2008 1:47:00 PM

bobwya said:
I try to post a reply to this thread and it says "Thread doesn't exist"... I'm like but yes it does... Its right there in front of me!! Oh dear THG WTF...

Nobody has mentioned:
#Red Faction 1

with its groovy destructible landscape!!
(but not the lame sequel obviously)


Shame on you guys!!

Bob


Good one, my best memories of that game were in multiplayer where you could blow holes in walls and create different sneak routes. Also i enjoyed watching a completely demolished map after an intensive deathmatch. I wonder why none of the other multiplayer games really picked up on that... hard to program for (in combination with dynamic lighting perhaps)? F.E.A.R. multiplayer would have seriously benefitted from such a feature.
April 2, 2008 2:38:25 PM

Quake
Warcraft 1 & 2
C&C1 and Red alert (does anyone remember the online gaming community "Mplayer"? from the mid to late 90's)
Rebel assault 1&2
Dark Forces
Xwing vs tie fighter
Die by the Sword (If you missed this gem, im sorry Very "innovative" combat techniques (fantasy game, but its primary feature was dismemberment of enemies, you could literally slice and dice them, hack off a leg and dude is hoppin around on one leg, oh it was great))
Soldier of Fortune
Half Life and original Team fortress
Janes Flight Simulator anthology
M1 tank platoon 1 and 2 (2 truely could have been great with a couple more patches, but microprose went kablooey and there has never been a tank sim with the realism and immersion since)
Starcraft

This is all I can think of atm.
April 2, 2008 2:44:36 PM

dtq said:
Elite, Elite plus. Elite frontier, (first encounters Ive never really been sold on)
wolfenstein 3d
xwing, tiefighter etc
X - beyond the frontier
Star Wars Galaxies - old enough to count?
Mech warrior?
leisure suit larry :D 
Dark forces
Seem to remember a star trek game that I liked a lot at the time, came on a massive amount of cd's :D .I guess sim city and the sims deserve an honourable mention

Games that I remember being hyped for their graphical innovation but being huge dissapointments to play:-

Rebel Assault
rise of the robots

Looking at the list most of the best of old school games were touted for their graphics at their release :D  Lets face it oblivion will have well and truelly earned its place on these lists in a few years time, another title famed for its graphics but also featureing great game play.



My parents a big star trek fans and got that game back then I know what your talking about but cant remember the title for the life of me, The hella huge amount of cd's clued me in as to thinking it must be the same game. As I recall it was rather fun.
April 2, 2008 4:12:11 PM

X-wing and Tie fighter
Dark forces, and Dark forces 2, etc
Mechwarrior series
C&C and red alert
Starcraft
Civ, and Civ II
Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis and Day of the Tentacle (I miss this style of game)
Lords of the Realm 2
Age of Empires
Age of Wonders
Shattered Steel
Earth Seige1&2
Cyberstorm
Worms Armageddon

thats all I can think of right now. I wish I had time to go back and play them all again.
April 2, 2008 4:50:34 PM

ack I forgot Diablo, Kingpin, Descent, Rise of the Triad, Nerf Arena Blast (yeah I know so sue me)...
April 2, 2008 6:18:10 PM

Well, I'm another old fogey that's been gaming since the Zork era.

Three of my favorites that I have not seen mentioned - Thief:TDP, Battlezone and Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri.

I'd love to see some earlier titles given a graphical facelift - you'd think that development would be pretty easy and I'd definitely fork over the cash for them.
April 2, 2008 6:44:22 PM

infornography42 said:
Heres another one I have fond memories of... Xcom.



Chazwuzzer said:

I'd love to see some earlier titles given a graphical facelift - you'd think that development would be pretty easy and I'd definitely fork over the cash for them.


If you liked the old UFO: Xcom, you should try UFO: Extraterrestrials (commercial game, released 11 months ago). It's basically the same old UFO: Xcom with a graphical facelift and some other improvements.

http://www.ufo-extraterrestrials.com/
April 3, 2008 2:21:57 AM

Quote:
Three of my favorites that I have not seen mentioned - Thief:TDP, Battlezone and Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri.


Yes! Absolutely, Alpha Centauri was the best turn based strategy...I wish there was a good Vista solution out there for this game...
April 3, 2008 2:50:18 AM

Ah ... the good old days. I know I have said it a couple of times in this forum. My favorites would be:

1) Eye of the Beholder.

I love the puzzle and the game mechanism is simple. There are traps (so you need thief), tanks at the front, casters and range weapons at the back. I need not to worry about the actual positioning of toons (unlike NWN series). There are no mini-maps so I just need to map it or memorize it myself. Hiden doors. Corridor that disorientates you (by rotating 180 degrees if you are not paying attention to the compass). At one glance you can see what sort of damage each toon is taking (there is a big "blood" paw with a number on it and you would feel ... ouch ouch ouch ... in the new games, this info is lost in a long listing of text).

You actually need to strategize on what to do. Oh, there are perminent death like facing the Medusa. And there is a spell to "disintegrate". It is as close to the "I win" button as one can get! (Or you may be disintegrated ... now ... doesn't that make your blood pressure goes up?)

2) Wing Commander

I know the graphic sucks. But I do feel quite real flying those machines and keep firing at the enemies from behind. Each mission is nicely timed. Oh, I love taking one of those bombers and bomb the huge mother ship. Took forever to take down one but that is the beauty of it all. Realism.

3) Loadrunner.

Of all the arcade type of games, I love loadrunners the most. I just love the puzzle involved.
April 3, 2008 3:27:08 AM

Lets see

Warcraft 2 was a good game, warcraft sucked because of poor balance issues. I almost didn't buy warcraft 2 because of the balance issues. However all my complaints were addressed in warcraft 2
I could never get into command and conquer again balance issues. A retired Air force LTC and I had to agree to not using cheap tactics.
I miss the old infocom games such as zork. Had as hell, but still good.
I also enjoyed the old bards tales 1 and 2
The original Might and Magic
Ultima 3 (ultima 4 was cool, but why if I get the words wrong it would make me redo the dungeon always bugged me)
Doom 1 and Doom 2 cooperative play (why don't more games use cooperative play today?)
Mechwarrior 2
There were a couple of strategy games I used to play, but forgot their names and they died long ago.
Silent Service was good as well.
Civilization
I enjoyed Simearth
April 3, 2008 8:39:45 AM

omenowl said:
I enjoyed Simearth


Oh, I did enjoy Sim Earth. If my memory serves me right, I have sent all the whales to the outter space as they have become the most advance creature on earth ...

Awesome!
April 3, 2008 10:01:33 AM

What about the Heros Quest series. Especially the first 2. And the one in the African setting with the big forest. Good plot lines.

Wing & Strike Commander had great story lines that and they had actual speech packs - intense. Why cant we get good storylines like that anymore. Someone earlier wrote about action games needing a time out for the user to catch their breath like back in base etc. Well it was great to be able to make it back to base with your F16 all shot up and to carry on the storyline/check the killboard :) 

Many hours spent on Kingpin which was actually a great gem ( mature theme was great! ) and many more on the multiplayer.

ROTT was a cool game too. And i found the Lord of the Realms series to be really engaging. Games could last for many, many days...

April 3, 2008 11:49:05 AM

Why has no-one mentioned Freespace? :o 
April 3, 2008 4:48:33 PM

I think that the freedom of movement and control is what makes a game great, and this is exactly where Descent and Deus Ex are the ultimate.

Nothing has ever been as immersive as Deus because you can't crawl the sewers, and simultaneously climb the rooftops.

I recall that I could even go back a level by stacking up boxes on that broken fire escape until I could climb up to the doorway, and it did reload the previous level :) , added to that the fact that you are able to physically change the attributes of your body, not just with external modifications, is very cool. Not to mention the modification of weapons, and a strategic place for them. You could play this game like Serious Sam, or like Splinter Cell, or both, and in fact better.

Descent, still the ONLY game I have ever seen with complete freedom of movement (no, space sims don't count, without a valid point of reference or a place to hide the fact that you can move freely is pointless). I think its big downfall is that it wasn't bundled with a proper controller from the get-go, and in fact I am not sure that there is an ultimate controller. I have tried the SpaceTec Spaceball360, and it is unsupported in current OSes, maybe I need a legacy machine with DOS to try and play it (The PSX version was amazing with the Ascii sphere model of that controller, but the PSX gets choked up as soon as you start firing at a load of bots, and all the axis aren't fully analog, two are converted to buttons)

Playability, I still haven't bought Gish, I really need to get around to it someday. If you haven't played Gish, go do it. NOW! (free demo) http://www.chroniclogic.com/index.htm?gish.htm

This little creature has an unbelievably addicting method of gameplay. Get a gamepad, no really, get a gamepad (I use a USB PSX adaptor and an oldschool Digital pad), I can't tell you how much fun playing the Demo Sumo ring mode with a friend is. The sheer physics is mind-boggling.

Physics can make or break a game, I think accurate physics are probably the most important, either with Deus Ex/Descent/or Gish. Deus Ex didn't use ridiculous methods to ban you from where you shouldn't be, physically impenetrable objects were used, and every logical path was allowed inside the area. Descent was amazing, if you have never strafed in 3D you simply must try it.

On the subject of physics, TrackMania Sunrise and Sunrise extreme are the most under-rated games I can think of. They combine free roaming levels (you can actually drive underwater to far-lying island mountains and up them to the peak!), but the game is Tony Hawk for cars mixed with Hot Wheels roller coaster style madness. Then there are the mindboggling Puzzle levels, where you climb, jump and fall your way to reaching impossible goals.

I actually got ahold of a retail copy of World Racing 2, and this is a truly stunning title, one of the only that allows multiple players on one PC (This is freaking important, are you listening PC game industry?), and I spanned my Dual monitor solution with nVidia, thus two players can play with their own screen. The beauty of this game is again the accurate physics, car damage, stellar car models, and levels, not to mention that you can again go off-road, to the top of a pyramid, or to the deck of a Destroyer docked in Hawaii (My friends wife came in the room and stopped dead before exclaiming "what are you two doing?", we were clearing the flight deck by pushing the fighter jets overboard! :) ). Unfortunately the Draconian copy protection means that when I swapped my CPU the game reset, and now I am out of keys, they only give you 3!!!!!! This is bad, very very bad.

It is the limiting, unimaginative gameplay that makes me upset with the current crop of doppleganger crud clones. How much can you run around machine-gunning men in gas masks to death through an obvious maze and watch a cut-scene of zombies as soon as anything gets interesting? I want complete freedom of movement, interesting storylines, no monsters, no machine guns. Go believably beyond what is possible in real life, I don't need to do stuff that is possible in real life, just stuff that is very hard or just impossible, give me flying cars, transporter beams, but let me walk where I want, not stop me with caution tape and let me roam a map like a rat in a maze, this rat knows where the cheese is, and it doesn't have anything to do with a cookie-cutter, that is for sure.

I am sick to death of EA churning out half-baked sequels, I haven't been able to play a game of theirs since dumping the pile of crap that was Hot Pursuit 2. The game engine behaves like a distracted walrus is uploading through a 56k modem to connect the controls to the action.

Come to think of it I skipped High Stakes as well (that is to say I bought it and I tried to play the PSX version as well, complete dud, makes a mclaren look like a Hummer, that isn't good news), Porsche Unleashed wasn't bad, but that is a seriously old game.
April 3, 2008 4:58:46 PM

I'm beginning to think I missed out by never playing Deus Ex. Will have to get a copy on budget...
April 3, 2008 5:57:02 PM

llama_man said:
I'm beginning to think I missed out by never playing Deus Ex. Will have to get a copy on budget...


Steam has it. And what is $10 nowadays in pounds? Must beat your local budget prices. For $20 you get it bundled with DeusEx 2.

DE2 never even got close to the original DE but it wasn't aweful either.
April 3, 2008 7:08:17 PM

I still have a 5x86/133 with 64mb of RAM running DOS 6.22/windows 3.1 just for old games. Nothing in it's less than ten years old.

Meanwhile, I'm replacing year old parts in my newer machines.
April 4, 2008 2:55:29 AM

Ahh, yes, Bards Tale...another one I loved. I'm surprised that no one has mentioned any old school DnD games, such as Pool of Radiance(the original one).
April 4, 2008 3:18:37 PM

I wouldn't mind seeing a new Duke Nukem FPS sometime this century.
April 4, 2008 3:43:11 PM

jalek said:
I still have a 5x86/133 with 64mb of RAM running DOS 6.22/windows 3.1 just for old games. Nothing in it's less than ten years old.

Meanwhile, I'm replacing year old parts in my newer machines.


I do the same thing, I just finished fixing up one of my older computers so I could play some old games again.
April 5, 2008 11:55:51 PM

Planescape: Torment and Ultima IV were wonderful RPG morality tales, exciting and cerebral. (Fallout 1/2)

Descent and Elite and Tie Fighter gave you fantastic space-ship experiences, each in their own subtle ways.

Serious Sam and Unreal and Doom and Duke Nukem showed you how to make an FPS.

System Shock and Deus Ex scared you poopless and let you skulk about as you wished, very relaxing ironically.

Last but not least, Star Control, an underrated overly-brilliant and disarmingly charming space opera that plays a lot like Elite and Pac Man!

Ultima IV and Star Control II have been revived and updated for modern PCs, so you have no reason to miss out on these classics!
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