Before u buy that Nforce2...

[Andyddr]

Anyone who is thinking of booting their KT333/400 board for a nForce2..think twice. Have a look at this article (link at bottom of page)posted by Patrick Schmid on Tom`s site. The boards used here are Asus A7N8X, Chaintech Zenith Series CT-7NJS and Leadtek WinFast K7NCR18D (all nForce2)as well as the ASUS A7V8X (VIA KT400).

We all know that the KT400 is not a `real` sucsessor to the KT333 as performance is very much on par. The only real difference in the two is the V-Link which now runs at twice the bandwith of the KT333-8X V-Link 533MB (what this does for performance I still need to see) and being able to (maybe if you are lucky) support 400mHz memory, and we have seen the benchmarks for that...

So here comes Nvidia with their nForce2 to blow us away with features like
1.`APU (Audio Processing Unit)`-like we`ll use it `cause most of us have Creative,Turle Beach or some other sound cards that support all this anyway.
2.`Dual-channel memory` is the thing everyone thinks is the selling point of this board. Have a look a bit later at those benchmarks at the end of this post and you`ll see that a 2-5 percent increase is hardly worth writing home about (and in some apps it is slower than single-channel) so the boys over at Via have chosen wisely not to offer dual-channel memory in their KT400a. I don`t want to make this too long, but what I`m saying here is that if you have a KT266a and down then my first choise to you is the nForce2 (like the function that allows any board speed but will keep ALL Pci devices at default speed-AGP as well-NICE!). But if you have a KT333 or KT400 then I`d wait for the KT400a `cause it WILL be faster than the nForce2.

Any comments?

LINK is http://www6.tomshardware.com/mainboard/20021111/index.html

Your new hardware is out-of-date

 

[fiask0]

Yes. My comment is nforce2 owns. It's better than Via in almost every conceivable way. It's rock solid, ran PERFECTLY the first time, runs perfectly to this day. =)

 

[Crashman]

But if you have a KT333 or KT400 then I`d wait for the KT400a `cause it WILL be faster than the nForce2.

You are a true idiot. First of all, "Faster" is not likely, second, even if it catches up, it's still VIA.

<font color=blue>You're posting in a forum with class. It may be third class, but it's still class!</font color=blue>

 

[Andyddr]

I don`t really feel like commenting on your (obviously) dumbass post so I`m not going to except to say DUMBASS!

Your new hardware is out-of-date

 

[Crashman]

Hey, you're right, I messed up my quote marks! Thanks for correcting me, it's fixed now.

<font color=blue>You're posting in a forum with class. It may be third class, but it's still class!</font color=blue>

 

[lpenix]

i dont make my decision on just reviews, and benches of different boards, 90% of my decision is based on other peoples experence, that is the true test of a product, but anyway that is my 2 cents.

I CANT TAKE IT ANYMORE,,<--- comes out of the closet screaming i am an AMD bieocth fan boy..

 

[upec]

I agree.

 

[Victory]

Well as soon as my new ram arrives(late this week because of the holiday) I'll be installing my new A7N8X(not deluxe). Anyhow, once all is good and up and running I'll have some real performance captures on the end user setup. I'm keeping the same CPU for now(XP1700), vid card(Ge3Ti200), sound(audigy), hd(IBM 75gxp). Anyhow I have posted benchmarks now, to replace my 'aging' KR7A.

I'll have more to follow once I'm up and running. BTW I don't feel the need for speed for myself, this system board is going to my daughter to replace her celeron 633. I just got the 'latest and greatest'.


Save heating costs on your home, overclock your PC!!!

 

[stupid_tech_geek]

Victory,
pm me when ya get the rig up and running cause you and I have the same setup. I'm waiting for my board and the expected delivery is 1st week of january so I'm interested to see what kind of performance you get. I'm also replaceing an old board abit vl6 with a 733 via samuel 3. As for that yahoo who sez this board isn't all that great, sounds like a case of envy to me.

Just another slave to Gatesware.

 

[Victory]

well he has a valid point, that the latest and greatest seldom means earth shattering performance. Although the newest is usually a little better. The other thing to consider is the new board, bios tweaks and better drivers over the coming months will also help it's performance.

I'll gladly let you know when it's up and running. The other system I'll soon be testing is an AXP2100+ paired with standard sdram w/512MB(yes NOT DDR). It's a 'high end' budget system I put together for a co-worker. I'm curious to see how much the extra clock speed it'll have over me, will be hampered by the single channel ram. The parts for that will be here today, the rest(my parts) hopefully by friday.

Anyhow anyone curious can visit <A HREF="http://home.wi.rr.com\ocingamd" target="_new">http://home.wi.rr.com\ocingamd</A> to see what my current setup is running, then when i get the new setup going and benched I'll place them as well.

Also my new ram is going to be the OCZ Extreme Performance 512MB EL DDR PC-3500 Enhanced Latency Series - 4.5 ns chips - CL2/CAS 2.0 - 1T - 434MHz+ - Copper Heat Spreaders
with two sticks for 1024. To replace my Corsair XMS2400 256MB. it's actually going bad but thankfully it has the 'lifetime warranty'. Xp sure chugs along with 128 though sheesh.
Save heating costs on your home, overclock your PC!!!

 

[Andyddr]

Okay let me get this right. You don`t make you OWN decisions from benchmarks and reviews (hard cold fact) but rather from other people`s prefrences (bias and personal)? So if everyone said their favorite colour is blue your favourite will soon be blue as well?

What I`m saying in my post are the facts from the link show nForce2 is not a huge leap forward (although still forward) and anyone who had KT333 and up is wasting money on a `left a bit and slightly up` product. The KT400a will be faster (yes Crashman I said it again) than the nF2 but this is my PERSONAL preference to stick to VIA. If yours is to be told what is good for you by other people then all the power to you. I guess there need to be shepards and sheep in this world...


Your new hardware is out-of-date

 

[Novakain]

I'm interested in the nforce2 chipset not so much for the speed but the stability. Sure, the KT400a may be faster, but VIA's chipsets have always been second best to Intel's. Not by much, but still. If the nforce2 turns out to be as stable if not more so than Intel's chipset's (I don't think we'll get a really good idea how solid this chipset is until a few BIOS revisions are released) then AMD will finally become a good contender against Intel PC's in the business market.

 

[paulj]

Get a 2800+, A7N8X Deluxe, Radeon 9700Pro and hold on.

Check the <A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=faq" target="_new">FAQs</A>. You can link to articles. It is much more convenient.

<font color=red>The solution may be obvious, but I can't see it for the smoke coming off my processor.</font color=red>

 

[ksoth]

The nForce APU is an excellent PC sound solution. I have nForce1 and use its integrated audio only, as I was able to build a new system with nForce mobo and keep my SoundBlaster in a secondary system. There really is no reason to buy a secondary consumer or gaming sound card if you buy an nForce motherboard with integrated audio.

Also, if you would read about nForce2, you would know why the dual channel memory system is there. It is for the integrated graphics. Because the Athlon requires 2.7 GB/sec at 166 FSB, if you have single channel DDR memory with integrated graphics, the max bandwith you get is 2.7 GB/sec. Because there is no "extra" bandwith for the graphics, you get really bad integrated graphics performance. Having a dual channel solution brings overall system bandwith up to 5.4 GB/sec, giving the graphics system 2.7 GB/sec to play around with all by itself. nVidia did release the nForce-220 (Asus A7N266-VM) with only single-channel DDR, which is more for those who don't want integrated graphics, and benchmarks show that that chipset with integrated graphics performs terribly compared to its dual-channel counterpart.

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<font color=blue> "Trying is the first step towards failure." </font color=blue>

 

[paulj]

But most of the boards out don't have the integrated graphics. And if you are building a fast system you would do better to add an AGP graphics card w/ 128 MB of memory like the gforce4 or Radeon 9700 series. So until the Athlon can take advantage of the extra bandwith it doesn't do much for the system unless you are talking about an IGP board.

<font color=red>The solution may be obvious, but I can't see it for the smoke coming off my processor.</font color=red>

 

[ksoth]

I know that a lot of boards don't have integrated graphics but the ones that do really need the dual-channel setup, or else they would just perform extremely poorly. The main reason why nVidia went dual-channel is because of their integrated graphics, but yes, it is also a "trick" selling point in some cases.

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<font color=blue> "Trying is the first step towards failure." </font color=blue>

 

[paulj]

You can get the nVida board without the onboard graphics. I think the only versions out right now do not have the onboard grapohics.

But I see your point. If you do have IGP then you need it.

<font color=red>The solution may be obvious, but I can't see it for the smoke coming off my processor.</font color=red>

 

[Makaveli]

I'm not gonna attack you, but you obviously have not used a Nforce2 chipset. I'm talking from personal experience since i'm an Asus A7N8X user. Its peformance is top notch and so is its stability. And you know what even if the KT400A is faster which I doubt. It still won't be as stable. And don't forget who writes drivers for Nforce2 boards! I can bet u my computer if KT400A is faster Nvidia will release a driver to take back the lead. That is like second nature to them if u recall Radeon 8500 vs Geforce 3.

But hey if u like via stick with them, but everyone on this forum knows which the best Athlon motherboard is. And the title doesn't belong to Via.

A very happy Nforce2 user.
Nuff Said.


My specs
<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=16172
" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=16172
</A>

 

[Tommunist]

i agree that the nforce2 chipset is the best around for amd users right now but at the same time i don't think via is as bad as other people around here seem to think. my past 2 boards have been via (an older chipset for my pIII - can't remember what chipset exactly - and a kt333 for my more current pc) and i haven't had any major (or really minor that I can think of) problems with either of them. I definitely would not upgrade to the nforce2 from my current setup though - the gain just wouldn't be substantial enough to warrant spending the money and time. If I were to build a whole new system right now I would get the nforce2 solution though.

Those dogs can smell anything. That's why you gotta kick em in the throat!!!

 

[Makaveli]

I had a KT133A chipset before I bought my Nforce2 so this was my jump to DDR. I wouldn't say the Via chipset was terrible but it certainly wasn't great.

 

[Dreadnaught]

all i know is that not all reviews are created equal, and you really need to read a bunch to get a more complete story, but even then the facts are never truly there. game demos, app tests i always feel are great tests, ive never liked the sysmark stuff all that much, specialy when intel got the nice little boost from the update that took all of intels winning marks and removed a lot of amd's strong points, making intel look even better. but just remember sysmark still doesnt have a fix for dual ddr on for athlon, which im guessing they arent rushing to fix.

ill always remember looking up a cpu cooler that supports 80mm fans so thats all EVERYONE but 1 review used. only 1 used a smaller fan. instead of having these super huge fans roaring he had close to the same temp from a smaller and more quiet fan due to the smaller center diameter. places like hard ocp and anandtech(like anandtech better than the other) always just throw numbers out and say here swallow this, rarely do you get to learn the inner workings. its not always the case with them, but many places are like that and often times them. hence why this is my main tech board i read.

<A HREF="http://www.trsclan.com" target="_new"> Clan TRS is Back </A>

 

[Andyddr]

Makaveli I`ll be honest and say that I do not own a nForce2 board (although if Father Christmas but one in my stocking I would`nt mind) but the whole point of my post is to show people that this is no monster. I was expecting the same dramatic performance increase at least of KT266 to KT266a between nF2 and KT400. What do we get...2-5 percent?

Okay VIA has never been know for stable motherboards but lets face it from KT333 and up stability has increased alot. Not that this is a true reflection but I tried a Google search of "KT333+Problem" and it returned 8 results compaired to 188 of "Kt133a+problem". So I`d say they are getting better.

My Epox 8K9A has NEVER given me a problem (as well as my Soltek DRV4) that software has not sorted out.

Merry Christmas to all of you and I hope you have a great day.

Your new hardware is out-of-date

 

[Makaveli]

I agree on your point about reading more than one review. That is what I did before I deemed the Asus a7N8x my new board. I read about 8-10 reviews before I picked it up. But even still reviews can only give u a partial view on a product and sometimes u must take that blind leap forward. And it was worth it for this board.

before even reading a review 2 things came to mind when I first heard of the board coming out.

1. Asus - Excellent quality
2. Nvidia - Excellent Drivers

So really I was almost sold on those two points alone.

 

[Makaveli]

I believe you when you say stability has increased alot for the via chipsets compared to the KT133A. And to to be honest my main goal was a stable system before fast performing one. Don't get me wrong though performance is still important to me. And like I stated in my previous post this board just came out. Reading this forum you should already know any knew product in time gets more matured drivers. There will be performance increased for this board yet to come!

But on a Side node, One thing I do notice is the memory performance is far better on Nforce2 boards. My Friend with Gigabyte GA-7VAXP VIA KT400 and DDR400 memory doesn't even come close to my score with my PC2700 DDR running @ 266 sync with my FSB.

I went over to his house and got tried the help him configure his memory in bios. but even running his setup with 266/266
his Sisoft memory scores are like 1600/1500 While i'm doing 2000/1900 on my board.

I also tested extracting a 700mb Winrar file on his system and on mine. and there is a difference of about 20secs.

So I suggest u do some own testing of yourself if u know someone that has a nforce2 board. you won't be disappointed.

 

[Andyddr]

[I went over to his house and got tried the help him configure his memory in bios. but even running his setup with 266/266
his Sisoft memory scores are like 1600/1500 While i'm doing 2000/1900 on my board.]


Hope you received the E-Mail with test results of my Soltek DRV4 (KT266A). The results were 2006/1897 with the FSB running at (default) 134mHz and all memory setting at `fastest`. That is pretty much on par with nForce2 at 133.3mHz (memory is also PC2700). A bit more tweaking in your friend`s BIOS should bring his score up to (at least) level to yours.





Your new hardware is out-of-date