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most skillful FPS CSS or TF2?

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what game requires the most skill?

Total: 35 votes (7 blank votes)

  • Team Fortress 2
  • 40 %
  • Counter-Strike: Source
  • 60 %
April 11, 2008 4:21:30 AM

feel free to comment on other games but i kinda want to keep it CSS/CS or TF2.

in my opinion TF2 is the more skillful game because it doesn't revolve entirely around aim which is only counted as 1 skill. TF2 involves dodging bullets, aim, thinking fast and making the right decisions based on a wide range of different scenarios. As far as i know CSS only includes aim and the doos and don'ts of each weapon.

More about : skillful fps css tf2

April 11, 2008 6:06:50 AM

I would say that you require great skill for both games. AIM in CSS is a must but you have to be smart. You can clutch a whole team 1 v 5 and win a round. In TF2, infinite respawns don't allow for that. TF2 does require good strategy and teamwork. In my opinion, each game requires skill. TF2 requires good teamwork if teamwork fails one person can't win. CSS requires teamwork but if teamwork fails one person can win out. This is the reason that I vote CSS for a single person can win a match without the use of his/her teammates.

edit: Type-O Fixed.
April 11, 2008 6:37:23 AM

interesting. i've seen some crazy players that could win both games by themselves (not with too many people tho) but all the CSS player appears to do is point and squeeze faster and more accurately than the opponent.
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April 11, 2008 11:31:54 AM

for TF2, some classes need more skill than others (medics have to know how to dodge while not moving too far from a heavy :p )
April 11, 2008 3:06:12 PM

in counter strike, that instant, one shot headshot from across the map with the ak takes ages to develop!! ;) 
April 12, 2008 1:03:07 AM

oh yea i never thought about the time it takes to develop the skill :p  but also I think aim is a very temperamental skill which is why css players always say "it's not my day" which would mean whether you get the kill or not depends a bit on whether it is your or the opponents day or not.
April 13, 2008 3:54:47 PM

I don't know. I've been playing CS:S for a few years now and I still suck bad. I started playing TF2 two months ago and I'm constantly at the top of the score charts. In my experience, it really helps if you have a team that knows WTF it's doing in TF2. As for CS:S, I've read about every piece of information I could get my hands on, including watching training videos on YouTube, but my game has only gotten a bit better.
April 14, 2008 12:11:03 AM

i_hate_flying said:
I don't know. I've been playing CS:S for a few years now and I still suck bad. I started playing TF2 two months ago and I'm constantly at the top of the score charts. In my experience, it really helps if you have a team that knows WTF it's doing in TF2. As for CS:S, I've read about every piece of information I could get my hands on, including watching training videos on YouTube, but my game has only gotten a bit better.


me too!! despite the fact that i've been playing pretty regularly for about three years, i still suck compared to a lot of people on there.
April 14, 2008 6:53:59 AM

i_hate_flying said:
I don't know. I've been playing CS:S for a few years now and I still suck bad. I started playing TF2 two months ago and I'm constantly at the top of the score charts. In my experience, it really helps if you have a team that knows WTF it's doing in TF2. As for CS:S, I've read about every piece of information I could get my hands on, including watching training videos on YouTube, but my game has only gotten a bit better.


me too!! my xfire says i have been playing css for over 1000 hours but once i first lost my aim (less than 500 hours in) that was it. I never saw it again :( 

TF2 on the other hand i very rarely am on the bottom half of the score board. When i really get into it i'm almost always at the top of the server
April 14, 2008 7:28:56 AM

Well, obviously you have answered your own (poll) question then..

CSS requires more skill than TF2, and it's not just about aiming either. (Team) Strategy is an important part of the game.
April 14, 2008 2:30:16 PM

heavylikemetal said:
I would say that you require great skill for both games. AIM in CSS is a must but you have to be smart. You can clutch a whole team 1 v 5 and win a round. In TF2, infinite respawns don't allow for that. TF2 does require good strategy and teamwork. In my opinion, each game requires skill. TF2 requires good teamwork if teamwork fails one person can't win. CSS requires teamwork but if teamwork fails one person can win out. This is the reason that I cote CSS for a single person can win a match without the use of his/her teammates.


IDK about that. In my clan there is one guy that plays like no other I have seen. He almost always doubles the next highest score. As Demo he is crazy good with the grenade gun, not the sticky gun (not to say he is not good with the stickies but he only uses that to take out sentries.). And whats really fun is to medic him and he will sticky jump to bottle a scout. I should record some of his moves. As scout he will dominate almost everyone.

I have watched him, I was a medic, take out everyone on a team alone while carrying the intel at their base then running to stop the guy carrying the intel from our base then capping it. Its crazy.

It does not stop you from having skill. I can dominate anyone as a sniper easily and am good at a lot of classdes. My fave thing to do is bonesaw a noob.
April 14, 2008 4:29:03 PM

Those who are good at CS:S have played so much that they know all the tricks. They know exactly where another will move based on their own movements. They know exactly where to pre-fire to get those headshots that make everyone scream "wall hack!!" They have the mouse movements and aim down solid. They can also, based on your ping and their own ping, be quite precise when it comes to shooting and killing you really fast. Often times, they also have a good team that they use to their advantage. While they watch you in an across the room gunfight with one of their own team members, run around back and knife you from behind.

Here's an analogy that you can use. Take school, for instance. There are some people who are naturally gifted with school, and there are those who study hard and memorise a lot. I attribute good TF2 skills to those students who can think through problems and figure them out on their own. I attribute good CS:S skills to those people who memorise and memorise until they have it all perfect. These are also the same people who are good at repetitive tasks, they repeat them again and again until they either look like the naturals, or they look like they've been playing for 10 years.

Both games obviously have their own elements of skill and luck, of course. I'm generalising and simplifying. I really love CS:S, but I just don't think I'll ever be good at it, no matter what I do. I like variety and that's where I find my fun. Playing the same map over and over with the same people doesn't hold my interest. I end up running around and doing crazy sh_t that gets me killed quickly by the "pros"!

I'm happy to hear that some other people here have the same experiences and feelings about CS:S that I do :) 
April 14, 2008 5:02:20 PM

Sharft6 said:
feel free to comment on other games but i kinda want to keep it CSS/CS or TF2.

in my opinion TF2 is the more skillful game because it doesn't revolve entirely around aim which is only counted as 1 skill. TF2 involves dodging bullets, aim, thinking fast and making the right decisions based on a wide range of different scenarios. As far as i know CSS only includes aim and the doos and don'ts of each weapon.


If you want to talk about or try a game with multiple skills involved and many of which take ALOT of time to get down...much less master. Try the original TFC! Sry...I am one of those guys who spent many of hours perfecting all of the movement skill involved in that game (thats not to mention the shooting while doing that) that was upset when they dumbed down TF2, but alas the game still surprised me and is alot of fun. I take CS skillwise over it though. Just my 2c!

Best,

3Ball
April 14, 2008 5:41:19 PM

My experience with CS was a deathmatch Blue Vs Red type of match where it was mindless mouse clicking and sometimes I would get spawnkilled 4~5 times in a row. When I did make it I would run for about 5 seconds, shooting, die, repeat. Of course I'm sure there are other matches out there but I wasn't impressed.
April 15, 2008 6:55:04 AM

i_hate_flying said:
I'm happy to hear that some other people here have the same experiences and feelings about CS:S that I do :) 


i feel the same way and i watch house :D 
April 15, 2008 9:06:38 PM

I think its Counter Strike 1.6 but between those two it is CS:S on a single player level. On a team skill level they are all even.
April 15, 2008 9:37:47 PM

I think CS:S require more "skill" (Although they are pretty close) You need to be incredibly quick, know the maps and the weapons and be able to organize good team strategy, you have to be smart in CS:S or you could be dead. TF2 is slightly more heavily requiring team strategy.
April 17, 2008 5:34:55 AM

when i'm on a rampage on css i normally just happen to shoot them in the head. It doesn't make me feel smart unlike when i'm on a rampage with TF2. TF2 gives me the that feeling of OMG i couldn't have handled that better. Mind you i have seen CS:S players who handle particular situations very well but it appears to be more intuition rather than thinking on the spot.
April 18, 2008 1:54:13 AM

rayzor said:
in counter strike, that instant, one shot headshot from across the map with the ak takes ages to develop!! ;) 



Sorry this reply is a little long but I have to explain


I agree

Take it from me . CSS takes MAXIUM SKILL . I used to ak headshot or deagle hs from miles away and if I play this instant I would not be able to do so anymore. The game Mechanics of CSS are amazing that you dont pull a halo or Doom spray and pray or you will never kill someone. Ofcourse there is also skilled sprayers that are in the highest rankings.


Put it this way to play in Cevo Pro or CAl -I or Cpl would require years of experience . I use to be able to hang with all those players and I still play CSS . FT2 gave my account away bacause its just not in the League of CSS . Cs 1.6 shoting mechanics are also bad .


Lets say you are aiming the oposite direction of someone that apears across your screen ,well as soon as you see that person you have to move your mouse as MAXIMUM hand speed directly to their head without going over and try and land the first 4 shots in their head while pulling your mouse down a little after the first 2 shots to try and get a Hs because the other player is trying to do the same thing he In Cal I- cpl or Cevo-P they will not miss.

Skilled players against skilled players can ovoid headshots by moving stoping crouching , but when they stop they take 2 shots or spray downward while crouching. Its mentaly Tiring at some point wich is why I quit. Takes extreme concentration to play at the top competition level .


This is a video or Moe , dont know if he plays anymore

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQfpmfVUQuE&feature=rela...

teams to look vids 4 ..

EFg
powersgaming
x6
team3d
Hyper

those are some I remember but their probably dead by now


peace!
Search for a video fo team3d vs powersgaming if you can find it. I remeber it was reall good
April 18, 2008 10:27:50 AM

Well it looks like CSS wins.

btw that video still looks like pointing and squeezing to me :p  . i don't think i'll ever understand.
April 18, 2008 1:32:35 PM

You're playing against human opponents. Skill level required is relevant to who you're playing against in either game. I'd say it is two different skill sets, but to say that CSS requires more skill because of head shots doesn't seem right to me.

Look at videos of top TF2 teams playing against each other and you'll see a battle of skills just as significant as any CSS game. Doing well in TF2 against real competition requires just as much skill as a good CSS match. You just arn't aiming for the head, unless you're a sniper.
April 18, 2008 2:50:03 PM

When I think about it hard I don't believe there really is skill involved, rather whoever has more acute senses and reacts more precisely in a faster amount of time is what it boils down to. I guess the part of acquiring a lock on target quicker can be considered a skill. But I'm comparing this from an RTS perspective.
April 29, 2008 2:13:19 PM

I'd disagree with that. Playing smart and getting the jump on your opponents can go a long way to putting yourself at the top of the leaderboard. I've also encountered something along the line of skill stagnance: initially, I'll start a map and roll straight to the top of the leaderboard, but as the other players start to adapt and change their tactics, my initially exorbitant KD ratio will level out and I either have to switch tactics or die. Good players are the ones that can consistently get on top and stay there. This goes for both CSS and TF2.
April 29, 2008 10:48:37 PM

This is an interesting question that we may cover in a future Tactical Strike.

CSS heavily emphasizes twitch responses. Spotting and targeting, particularly at long range. Fast twitch and aim can make up for huge deficencies in movement, range, placement, ect.

TF 2, de-emphasizes twitch responses. There are many more short range weapons, which means that ranging becomes a lot more important.

Only the sniper and spy have precision hitscan weapons.

On the other hand, in a high level TF2 match, there's a far wider variety of potential scenarios and situations that you can face.

TF2 also has hard counters.

This is not an obvious question.

CSS has the supreme emphasis on movement/placement and spoting/aiming.

TF2 is much more about exploiting advantages, counters, and teamwork, and adaptability to what the other team does.

Is needing a lot of little skills more than one huge skill?
April 30, 2008 1:29:06 PM

CSS FTW,

both have there merits, but if you see yourself as a long term gamer wanting to devote time and 'skill' into a game then CS:S all the way.

however if your a bunch of friend at the end of a month wanting a game, then TF2 may have the instant fun factor.
May 1, 2008 1:06:21 AM

I'll be honest, both are pretty terrible compared to CS 1.6 in terms of individual skill. CS:S would beat out TF2 though, from my experience thus far. TF2 looks to be a "rock paper scissors" game to some extent, where it's really more about how you use your rock to beat your scissors, and your scissors to attack their paper, while protecting from rocks with paper... you get the point.

Also, since most of my experience with TF2 is with the sniper class, I'll say that as someone who used the AWP heavily in CS 1.6 (CAL-Main, so I have some room to talk I think), and also in CS:S, sniping takes a lot more skill than it does in TF2. TF2 focuses more on camping with your scope up to get the full dmg (although you can still kill another sniper 1 shot hs with a quick scope), whereas CS required a lot faster action with AWP.

I would put a lot more weight on individual performance and skill in CS:S than TF2, because like another poster said already, with counter-strike a single player could ace and win the round if they're fast, smart, and accurate enough, whereas tf2 that's not really going to happen unless the other team is full of complete failures (and no medics). In essence, TF2 is really more about arrangement, whereas CS is about execution.
May 1, 2008 1:21:31 AM

Also I might add that in CS there's no running back to the supplies area to fully heal after getting shot by a sniper down to low HP :) 

Nothing like shooting a soldier in the face only to have him run away for a second, then run back fully stocked as if it never happened. That's skilled right there!
May 5, 2008 6:53:59 PM

BigMac said:
Well, obviously you have answered your own (poll) question then..

CSS requires more skill than TF2, and it's not just about aiming either. (Team) Strategy is an important part of the game.


Yeah but then again the strategy of each individual player also makes a huge difference, knowing where to go and what to do in a variety of situations is hugely important. Thats what you build up over time and it can show/help in a variety of online fps games. I know its not on the list here, but bf2 ranks as probably the most demanding online shooter there is, needing a good aim, cool concentration and quick on-your-feet thinking. I get the impression (im sorry ive never played counter strike or tf2) that counter strike is more about camping and aim than attacking flair. In bf2, camping or playing defensively is extremely difficult to do well, and wont tip the match in favour of your team. I know it doesn't count for jack, but from the videos ive seen of tf2 and css it would appear that there might actually be more strategy in tf2 than in counter strike. The respawn option and topsy-turvy nature of the games might be drawing on more aspects of your gaming-brain than cooly picking people off in a no respawn environment.
May 5, 2008 7:51:54 PM

spoonboy said:
words

I think on an amateur level you might be right about Counter-Strike and camping, but when you get into a competitive level, camping really won't help you unless, like you said about BF2, you do it well. Skilled players know to check corners, shoot through certain walls, etc. Also, not having a respawn emphasizes value of each player on your team a bit more imo, since the "run in like spazzes and eventually overwhelm their defense" from TF2 won't really work in CS.

An example of what some of you are talking about, on dust2 in a match, typical move would be to have your best awper peak mid double doors, 1) to try and pick off any CTs or at least hit them through the doors, 2) check to see what they're doing. Because you don't get any respawns, this places an emphasis on dealing damage at the beginning of the round where you might not even see the benefit until you've planted the bomb, your team's dead, and its you vs. 1 CT, you have full HP and he has 1/2 from getting hit through the door. With TF2, I would crit/hs a soldier on 2fort, and watch him go in the back to resupply, come back out and get critted again and not die. That removes the emphasis of managing a finite amount of health, which I think is an important aspect in any game.
May 21, 2008 9:38:16 PM

I've played both CS and TFC which honestly i found pretty similar to CSS and TF2 (though i didn't play the latter two very long). Going off my experience for those two games i'd say that they both require some level of skill but my vote would go towards tf2. However, I think games like tribes/tribes2 and quake 3 arena can be MUCH more demanding of skill than those other two games.

In the case of tribes, you have jetpacks so that adds a whole new dimension to movement and it makes it VERY difficult to hit moving targets when they are in the air. The other thing that makes it hard is that there are practically no hit-scan weapons in tribes. In CSS everything is hitscan (except grenades), which is to say when you shoot, the bullet hits instantly. Pinpoint accuracy is nowhere near as demanding as leading a target is, ESPECIALLY if its in the air, because now you have to have pinpoint accuracy AND great timing or you will miss your target every time. There is a whole slew of other reasons why i'd say tribes demands more of a player than either CSS or TF2, but I don't want to bore you to death so i'll leave it at that.

-Zorak
May 22, 2008 6:11:50 AM

I need to add that in CS:S, having a better computer that gets you low pings, high FPS gives you a clear advantage over the person with the crappier computer. I'm sure the same applies for TF2 as well. Configs make a difference as well too.
May 22, 2008 3:37:27 PM

Quote:
I think on an amateur level you might be right about Counter-Strike and camping, but when you get into a competitive level, camping really won't help you unless, like you said about BF2, you do it well. Skilled players know to check corners, shoot through certain walls, etc. Also, not having a respawn emphasizes value of each player on your team a bit more imo, since the "run in like spazzes and eventually overwhelm their defense" from TF2 won't really work in CS.


It looks like your speaking in a matter of preferences here and not any sort of evident value. A skilled TF2 players knows which corners/hallways to check and knows where to fire blast radius weapons to likely pick off an incoming target or push them back through the choke point.

Having a respawn will still take a killed character out of the battle for roughly a minute depending on settings. No one wins games of TF2 by using the "run in like spazzes and eventually overwhelm their defense" method. It simply doesn't work vs players with even a little bit of experience.

Quote:
Because you don't get any respawns, this places an emphasis on dealing damage at the beginning of the round where you might not even see the benefit until you've planted the bomb, your team's dead, and its you vs. 1 CT, you have full HP and he has 1/2 from getting hit through the door. With TF2, I would crit/hs a soldier on 2fort, and watch him go in the back to resupply, come back out and get critted again and not die. That removes the emphasis of managing a finite amount of health, which I think is an important aspect in any game.


Your sniping issue comes from lack of familiarity with the gun. The AWP does the same damage regardless of time zoomed in. The TF2 Sniper rifle will kill a soldier with a single headshot, but you must not be waiting long enough zoomed in. No class can live through a fully powered headshot from a sniper rifle even if they are being buffed by a medic, though the heavies can come close.

I would also argue that managing of health is more important in TF2 than CSS. CSS you simply can't get hit, so there isn't any sort of decision making there. TF2 you've got medics and respawns, so you have to weigh taking damage vs the effect you can have on the other team. Sometimes it's worth sacrificing yourself if you can kill a medic before they use their ubercharge for example. Staying alive while the other team trashes your defenses or takes your points isn't generally a viable strategy in TF2.
September 11, 2013 4:45:02 PM

the fps that req. most skill is quake live not tf2 not cs but quake live if u dont belive me try the game for ur self its free anyway .
December 28, 2013 7:35:05 AM

CSS / CS 1.6 ( both games ) are to me the most skill full online FPS games still around.

Map awareness, weapon choice, speed, tactics, aim, voice coms, ability to deal with multiple targets at once, using equipment e.g FB's - Smoke...etc, its an intense game. correct one player can take out an entire opposing team, with stealth, skill, and causing confusion...
I've been playing for 14 years, and finish most maps on most servers 1st, with a KDR over 2.4 Playing other FPS games always just seems more casual and less involved. As you can either just heal yourself, or re-sporn.....
!