Bethesda: No Fallout 3 Demo...Again

Article by Kevin Parrish

After a brief tease, Bethesda Softworks today confirmed that there will not be a demo for Fallout 3, the highly anticipated sci-fi RPG sequel. Bethesda tells Tom's Games why.

http://www.tomsgames.com/us/2008/05/15/fallout3_nodemo/
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  1. For me "no demo" = "no purchase" (and no I won't pirate it either)
  2. What should I do here Rob? I'm looking to you for moral guidance.
  3. u mean ur looking for an arguement :p
  4. Buying it the day it comes out. Oblivion had no demo (has bethesda ever had a demo?) and it well worth its purchase (although knights of the nine was pretty short).
  5. If there are nice goodies for preordering, I'll do that. Otherwise I will buy it the day after it comes out as I usually do. I like to check for DRM complaints before purchase, but some games get me excited enough to preorder anyway. Also I've never had a problem with Bethesda, and don't expect one.
  6. I think I'll wait to read a few reviews before I buy it, but I'm expecting it should be good. Maybe I'll rent the Xbox version just to try it.
  7. Oh Snap said:
    What should I do here Rob? I'm looking to you for moral guidance.

    Considering the scope of Oblivion and the fact that some parts - including the opening dungeon escape scene- can be rather tedius, how much free play time would you require to decide whether or not you should pay for that game?
  8. Oh Snap said:
    What should I do here Rob? I'm looking to you for moral guidance.


    Smartass...

    But since you asked, here goes: I recommend you engage in what I like to call the Freshman Scramble, i.e. when you show up to your dorm freshman year of college without a car, find somebody on your floor who has a car and make friends with them fast (either that or get a Segway). If I may, I will extrapolate the Freshman Scramble philosophy and apply to Fallout 3: find a friend who has bought -- and I do mean "bought" -- Fallout 3 for the PC and borrow it from them. Or -- and I know this is apples and oranges -- rent a console version of the game and try it out (gasp!). I know, I know -- it's not the same as the PC. But it may give you a good enough idea of the content to let you know if it's worth buying or not. So there's my advice, Oh Snap. Scramble, smartass, scramble!!!

    Personally, I'm not sure how i feel about this. At first, I was kind of upset that there would be not demo. Even if Bethesda was able to construct some type of extended demo similar to the E3 walkthrough, that's be good enough for me. But then again, I can definitely see their point about it being hard to make a demo for a complex RPG game. And it's their choice. I just think it's going to invite more piracy of the game. As for me, I'm buying a copy the day it's out (in addition to the review copies that Bethesda will hopefully send us).
  9. Why don't they simply make a demo like the original fallout had. You start out as some random dude in a room full of weapons. When you exit said room you find a gang of ruffians with equally large weapons. Point minigun, pull trigger, be entertained for 15-20 minutes while the battle plays out and decide if you want more.

    My worries are not about the story as much as they are about the game play. Game play seems like a very easy thing to show. Give me a character with mid-level skill in everything and a simple area to play with them.
  10. purplerat said:
    Considering the scope of Oblivion and the fact that some parts - including the opening dungeon escape scene- can be rather tedius, how much free play time would you require to decide whether or not you should pay for that game?

    Considering Fallout is my all time favorite game, and I continue to play FO1 and 2 to this day, I could give you an answer in about 10 minutes tops. I'd just know if it was good or not playing it for a few minutes.

    robwright said:
    So there's my advice, Oh Snap. Scramble, smartass, scramble!!!

    I choose Segway. :P
  11. you know its gonna be bad...its bethesda. whats the point of even pirating it.
  12. If Tim Cain was on the development team I'd preorder this **** in a heartbeat. Oblivion was pretty god awful though.
  13. Jeez, tough crowd. When did Oblivion become so awful? I think Bethesda is one of the better developers working today, but hey, that's just me.
  14. robwright said:
    Jeez, tough crowd. When did Oblivion become so awful? I think Bethesda is one of the better developers working today, but hey, that's just me.


    ive never slept better than when i tried playing oblivion.
  15. robwright said:
    Jeez, tough crowd. When did Oblivion become so awful? I think Bethesda is one of the better developers working today, but hey, that's just me.

    He's just saying it's awful because it validates his pirating it and not paying afterwords.
  16. purplerat said:
    He's just saying it's awful because it validates his pirating it and not paying afterwords.

    Yeah, because I didn't purchase a bunch of games I originally pirated or anything.


    I totally played through 100 hours of Oblivion and said "I hate this game!" and kept it on my drive. I definitely didn't play through about 20 minutes worth and delete it. But you already know that, why am I telling you?

    For purplerat only:
    It's better to be a pirate than being so far up my own self-righteous ass that I just assume I understand the behavior of people I disagree with better than themselves.
  17. Huh? You played a 100 hours and hated it? I play wow and I hate it. I hate Warcraft 3 too (well multiplayer, singlep is great). I hate Kane, but he's just such a loveable guy. PEACE THROUGH POWER!
  18. stemnin said:
    Huh? You played a 100 hours and hated it? I play wow and I hate it. I hate Warcraft 3 too (well multiplayer, singlep is great). I hate Kane, but he's just such a loveable guy. PEACE THROUGH POWER!

  19. It looks like you bought 2 Source bundles and Bioshock. COD4 had a playable demo so it's kind of irrelavent to the topic. Seriously what % of the games you pirate do you buy? Obviously you can give any BS answer you want or be completely truthful and I have no interest in looking at your screen shots or reciepts. But to say that you pirated Oblivion played it for a few minutes and deleted it is stupid even if it's true. Oblivion was a very well done game from pretty much every aspect. That doesn't mean you HAD to like it, but it shouldn't have been that difficult to figure out without pirating. Seriously where were you mislead about this game that only playing a pirated version could uncover? Now you may say that you weren't going to buy it either way so whats the harm. Well here's what pisses me off. Besides being a great game Oblivion was also void of any invasive DRM. But of course people like yourself took advantage of that and pirated the game (and I doubt all were as nice as you to delete it after you were done). Do you think Fall Out or any future Bethesda title will be so void of DRM given the current climate of piracy? Oh yeah that right, I forgot, you're not part of the problem.
  20. purplerat said:
    He's just saying it's awful because it validates his pirating it and not paying afterwords.


    of course thats it! its not because i bought the game and was horribly disappointed to be playing the exact same game that came out 10 times before but was just as **** as the last.
  21. Purplerat, as much as I hate piracy, I think this forum discussion thread should be reserved for talking abou the issue at hand: Fallout 3 and the question of to demo or not to demo in the context of piracy. If it's a personal flame war you want with Oh Snap, then I suggest both of you gentlemen start another thread dedicated to such a topic and move your war of words there. Because right now, knowing how these discussions have gone in the past and being quite familiar with the steely resolve of Oh Snap, this thread will reach several pages and virtually none of it will end up being about the lack of a Fallout 3 demo.
  22. Quote:
    of course thats it! its not because i bought the game and was horribly disappointed to be playing the exact same game that came out 10 times before but was just as **** as the last.

    Actually my comment wasn't directed at you. However if you've bought the "same" game 10 times over and over again and were disapointed each time but hoped not to be the next time... Well go look up the definition of insane.
  23. Quote:
    But to say that you pirated Oblivion played it for a few minutes and deleted it is stupid even if it's true. Oblivion was a very well done game from pretty much every aspect.

    The interface was pretty annoying, the character selection screen instantly disappointed me (an infinite number of horrible looking character possibilities), and the gameplay just wasn't fun. I'm not sure what else you want, you obviously thought it was the bees knees and I'd rather do any number of things other than play it.

    Quote:
    Seriously what % of the games you pirate do you buy?

    I'd say 50-60%? I actually haven't even pirated a game in a while. The last games I pirated were Heroes of Might and Magic V (loaded it up, sat through a couple minutes of gameplay and instantly went "NOPE!" right into the trash bin), BioShock (which I bought), Cod4 (which I bought), and Assassin's Creed (got up to the point where the soldiers show up at your little fortress moat or whatever and you dive off and that was that).

    Quote:
    Seriously where were you mislead about this game that only playing a pirated version could uncover? Now you may say that you weren't going to buy it either way so whats the harm. Well here's what pisses me off.

    Lots of review sites gave it a great score, but like I said, I don't bother with any of that nonsense. Everyone loves to hype games like that up and talk about how innovative and great the gameplay is, but when you actually sit down to play it, it's nothing new, and nothing interesting. You obviously feel differently, but I thought it was a terrible game.

    Tell you what, if I ever get my hands on a time machine, I'll go ahead and pirate games, but if the game sucks, I'll go back in time and let myself know it sucked, so I won't pirate it. That'll somehow make the industry more money I'm sure. It's fool-proof logic.

    Quote:
    Do you think Fall Out or any future Bethesda title will be so void of DRM given the current climate of piracy?

    Fallout 3 probably won't have too much DRM, and as for future Bethesda titles, I really don't care, because I'm not a Bethesda fanboy. I don't think they have any other titles they've worked on that have even interested me. I've heard that Interplay is actually starting production on a Fallout MMO (I think there was a thread on these forums), so obviously I doubt that would really have annoying DRM considering it would be entirely online based.

    robwright said:
    Because right now, knowing how these discussions have gone in the past and being quite familiar with the steely resolve of Oh Snap, this thread will reach several pages and virtually none of it will end up being about the lack of a Fallout 3 demo.

    Fair enough. Back on topic:

    I honestly think this move has reinforced the feeling a lot of Fallout fans have about Bethesda and what they're doing with the IP. I personally get the feeling that Bethesda really is riding off of another company's IP, and they're hoping that enough people will purchase the game based on that alone. If you release the demo for the legions of angry fallout fans (and if you don't think they're angry, visit the duck and cover forums: http://www.duckandcover.cx/forums/viewforum.php?f=47), they'll tear it to pieces like they have everything else that's been released thus far if it's gone in the direction everyone thinks it has (away from a lot of what made FO1 and 2 great, and towards more of a reference to the game like "look, haha, there's radiation! get it?"). Better for Bethesda to just release the game and hope the name alone gets them sales.

    Quite honestly it feels like a big "**** you" to a lot of the Fallout fans because they know that they have to prove that they deserve to carry the torch, so to speak. If they really thought the game was solid, and a true sequel to the original two games, they'd find some way of releasing a demo to prove to the old fans, "Look, we've made a really good game."

    With the way review sites have already been talking about the V.A.T.S. system, I'm quite surprised they don't at least have a short combat demo like someone else mentioned previously in this thread.
  24. Woops, double post. Apologies...
  25. OK Rob, I'll behave. As far as Fall Out 3 I've never played either 1 or 2 but can totally understand not having a demo. Although my question was meant to provoke Oh Snap, it does still stand; How long of a demo would it take to convince somebody of Oblivion's virtues? I'm assuming that Fall Out is similar to Oblivion in this way. If I only had the first 20 minutes to go on (escaping from the dungen and search for that priest) I probably wouldn't have bought it. So I could see why RPGs like this don't release demos.
  26. purplerat said:
    OK Rob, I'll behave. As far as Fall Out 3 I've never played either 1 or 2 but can totally understand not having a demo. Although my question was meant to provoke Oh Snap, it does still stand; How long of a demo would it take to convince somebody of Oblivion's virtues? I'm assuming that Fall Out is similar to Oblivion in this way. If I only had the first 20 minutes to go on (escaping from the dungen and search for that priest) I probably wouldn't have bought it. So I could see why RPGs like this don't release demos.

    Trust me, for Fallout, all I need is 10 minutes.
  27. Is it my imagination or is EVERY thread these days about piracy???
    I'm thinking that some game developers are just spreading rumours about excessive piracy when they get poor sales on their PC games.

    Anyhow, I hope Bethesda release plenty of videos to give me an idea of the game. Their games aren't perfect but damn close to it and I sincerely hope they keep their discs without invasive software, as they have been doing.
  28. Quote:
    I honestly think this move has reinforced the feeling a lot of Fallout fans have about Bethesda and what they're doing with the IP. I personally get the feeling that Bethesda really is riding off of another company's IP, and they're hoping that enough people will purchase the game based on that alone.


    Isn't that the only reason to buy an existing IP? How damn hard is it to come up with a post-apoc story line and not call it Fall Out for free? They bought the rights to the IP, and that's the end of the story.

    If someone else was so concerned with the future of the IP and thought they could have done a better job they'd have bought it. Interplay was a company with many excellent games that they sold off to be scrapped and never seen again or remade. If the company who owned it cared so little about the IP, then I can't see the issue with someone changing it.

    Are you expecting much after tactics? People have been begging for years for a sequel. It reminds me of the quote from Snatch. "When I give a dog a bone, I don't want to know how it tastes." I'm sure it'll be a fun visit back to the universe, but I know I'm not going to be blown away like I was with the first Fall Out.

    btw I sympathize with you on Oblivion Oh Snap. It wasn't a bad game, but it certainly didn't do much of anything new and fantastic. I liked the beginning of the game and the Assassin's guild quests. I also felt like the scope of the world had interesting possibilities. Just about everything else felt very lacking in design.
  29. Quote:
    Isn't that the only reason to buy an existing IP?

    Or you could, you know, make an awesome game around the existing IP rather than just hope the name carries your sales.
  30. Ill do what i do most of the time ill wait a few hours after release and get it online if infact it is a good game as i surely hope it is i will then go out and buy it
  31. i will prolly buy it even without the demo. I loved all of the Fallout games, even tactics, and given Bethesda's track record (Excluding Battlespire, and Redguard) i believe they will do just fine on fallout.
  32. Oh Snap said:
    Quote:
    Isn't that the only reason to buy an existing IP?

    Or you could, you know, make an awesome game around the existing IP rather than just hope the name carries your sales.



    I'm pretty sure that the two aren't mutually exclusive. Bethesda is surely making the game the best they think it can be. Of course best to Bethesda more likely means best sales, than seamlessly integrated with the previous games. Having a known brand name will surely help in that respect even if it turns away a limited number of die hard fans of the original games.
  33. bushmastertd said:
    i will prolly buy it even without the demo. I loved all of the Fallout games, even tactics, and given Bethesda's track record (Excluding Battlespire, and Redguard) i believe they will do just fine on fallout.

    I can forgive the tactics, but did you love BoS?
  34. I played Wasteland on the C64. Poor Poor Redhawk and the mine fields I stomped him thru. :kaola:

    I played FO1 and FO2.

    I almost got Fallout Tactics for free but turned it down from the negative comments I heard about it from other friends that played it. (wonder if it would play on Vista now) Also screw the console only release of BoS.

    Fallout 3? Why don't I have this game already? If it was true they bought up the fragments of the original Fallout 3 code then I would guess they could have had this to market earlier.

    Will FO3 tank? Will they be able to buy out the rights to do the MMO if it doesn't tank? I am a fanboy of the whole post nuke genre for games and stories. Will FO3 be good at both? I hope so...I really do since I will most likely get the collector's edition.
  35. Oh Snap said:
    Trust me, for Fallout, all I need is 10 minutes.

    If you are capable of judging a Bethesda sized RPG in 10 minutes then Tom's should look into hiring you. That is an incredible talent.
  36. homerdog said:
    If you are capable of judging a Bethesda sized RPG in 10 minutes then Tom's should look into hiring you. That is an incredible talent.

    That's what I'm talkin about.
  37. i'm still playing oblivion.... when i get bored, its fun to make a retarded albino Khajit or flourescant purple haired high elf and then see if i can kill some random guy in a house for the fun of it....
  38. homerdog said:
    If you are capable of judging a Bethesda sized RPG in 10 minutes then Tom's should look into hiring you. That is an incredible talent.


    Wow, if I had judged Mass Effect on it's first 10 minutes, I would have pulled the ripcord and bailed out. I'm glad I stuck with it because despite a clunky, weak beginning, it's a great sci-fi RPG.
  39. I do think Oblivion was overrated, but it is hard not to be when the hype machine is in full swing. It was a good game, possibly a great game, just not a phenomenal game.

    The textures on faces were ugly as sin, but that wasn't a big deal to me. Mainly, my issues with it were the leveling system and how it handled multiple characters.

    The leveling system was utter dog poo. Nothing at all redeeming about it. From the fact that all enemies leveled with you to the whole min maxing of trying to get every point for each level... it was poorly thought out and poorly implemented.

    And when you had multiple characters on the same computer all their save games just ran together in an ugly unsorted mess. I have no idea how this made it past QA. They should have separated the savegames out for each character.

    Aside from those three gripes, the game was quite good. I enjoyed it quite a bit and since the leveling system will be completely replaced with SPECIAL, I have decent sized hopes for FO3.
  40. Yeah I've always wondered why anyone would make a game where the enemy levels with you. Defeats the purpose of leveling in the first place.
  41. Oh Snap said:
    Yeah I've always wondered why anyone would make a game where the enemy levels with you. Defeats the purpose of leveling in the first place.

    Yes, leveling enemies do suck. Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul solves that problem, and brings a lot of other cool stuff to the table as well. I highly recommend it.
  42. Oh Snap said:
    I can forgive the tactics, but did you love BoS?


    holy $@#!, One i missed, i never played that one..... guess i am slipping
  43. bushmastertd said:
    holy $@#!, One i missed, i never played that one..... guess i am slipping

    You didn't miss much. It was one of the worst games ever, with the "Fallout" name slapped onto it.
  44. wow that bad huh? was it worse than Battlespire? I thought that game was pretty crappy. Almost made me miss morrowind
  45. robwright said:
    find a friend who has bought -- and I do mean "bought" -- Fallout 3 for the PC and borrow it from them.


    That certainly wouldn't work if they used SecureROM.

    If not, maybe I'll "preview" it from a store here that still does that. It's been doing it since the C64 rental days, customers have called software companies for tech support and other stupid things I thought would get it stopped, but they're still there calling it previewing instead of renting.

    Usually though, their selection's small. Strong DRM or unique registration numbers sort of make it impossible anyway.
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