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China: In the End, Google Will Be Biggest Loser

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March 23, 2010 1:24:19 AM

Maybe, maybe not. Either way it was bound to happen sooner or later, either Google was going to check out of China or China was going to boot them. I think China plans on booting allot of companies out eventually.
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March 23, 2010 1:28:42 AM

"In fact, no country allows unrestricted flow on the Internet of pornographic, violent, gambling or superstitious content, or content on government subversion, ethnic separatism, religious extremism, racialism, terrorism and anti-foreign feelings."

No, some but certain countries figure they'll just censor anything thats unfit for their little "children." Last time I checked, you could buy the Anarchist Cookbook in the U.S., you just have to accept the fact that it look suspicious and will show up in records and such. But it's still publishable, and isn't hidden from society.
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March 23, 2010 1:28:50 AM

A lot of states in US just banned internet gambling, such an unfair and unjust striction on my freedom.
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March 23, 2010 1:30:14 AM

Tom's, your number one source for internet soap opera's and your drama headquarters!

*waits for the pointless and ignorant "China is evil" rhetoric that strangles every one of these articles' comment section*
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March 23, 2010 1:32:01 AM

oh noes, people will have free access to information! they will be able to think and make decisions for themselves! QUICK!! while we still control their minds, brainwash "google is bad", quick!
@babybeluga you are entitled to your opinion just as i am entitled to mine, though the Chinese might try to censor that kind of thinking. i do not think the Chinese are bad, just the government.
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March 23, 2010 1:39:48 AM

@zachary k The citizens of China cant think and make decisions for themself?
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March 23, 2010 1:44:14 AM

/facepalm :pfff: 
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March 23, 2010 1:59:05 AM

Why is the government bad? Every government has done the same thing at some point in its history. Most of you people complain just because its the cool thing to do. Take a look at some of the African governments and what they do (or don't do), then come back and cry about how bad China's government is.

The way you people complain makes me think you'd never be able to survive without being connected to 24/7 internet. I'm not judging you on that, but you have to realize other real people are out there struggling to survive and your internet pseudo cries for justice do absolutely nothing but build into ignorance. That green twitter army really helped those Iranians, didn't it?

Most people cry for more privacy here in the United States, but this is the culture of tabloids and forcing our whole country into other people's business. It's absolutely ridiculous how many people will jump onto a bandwagon due to the media.
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Anonymous
March 23, 2010 2:05:55 AM

This isn't just about censorship. China has a whole government branch of hackers. They rip off everyone's stuff and then put out their own version. Google just thought it was better to withdraw their efforts at complying with China when they just plan on stealing everything anyways. The hacking probably violates China's laws, but the government denies it and does nothing about it.

How do you remain competitive when you try to comply with laws that your competitors ignore? Of course, how do you compete with a country?

We have Google's answers, what do you think?
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March 23, 2010 2:06:11 AM

roltzje@zachary k The citizens of China cant think and make decisions for themself?


As long as that decision is approved by the government sure :)  Just don't try to do a protest or you may get run over by a tank or something.

Sorry but China is not evil, Chinese people are not evil, but the government sure the hell is. They may be in the process of changing that but I have no questions that if I lived there I would be scared to voice my opinion unless it was something like "China is the greatest!!!"

Filtering the internet of crap is fine and people will live with out porn to be sure. Filtering out opinions that differ from your own is uncomfortably close to burning books that do not agree with a dictators doctrine and that is where the shadows grow and the lies hide.
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March 23, 2010 2:07:03 AM

Great job Google

Someone has to stand up
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March 23, 2010 2:20:00 AM

Well see, it doesn't matter to china anymore. They have google's source code now. In the end they don't care because they HAVE google. It's pathetic really.
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March 23, 2010 2:20:24 AM

babybelugaWhy is the government bad? Every government has done the same thing at some point in its history. Most of you people complain just because its the cool thing to do. Take a look at some of the African governments and what they do (or don't do), then come back and cry about how bad China's government is. The way you people complain makes me think you'd never be able to survive without being connected to 24/7 internet. I'm not judging you on that, but you have to realize other real people are out there struggling to survive and your internet pseudo cries for justice do absolutely nothing but build into ignorance. That green twitter army really helped those Iranians, didn't it? Most people cry for more privacy here in the United States, but this is the culture of tabloids and forcing our whole country into other people's business. It's absolutely ridiculous how many people will jump onto a bandwagon due to the media.


What, so because the Chinese government's act of censorship isn't the worst thing in the universe, we can't talk about it? Neither is pollution (genocide is certainly more important) so I suppose we should just forget that too. Censorship is pretty low on the list of dire subjects, so let's just stop talking about it.
What does this complaint have to do with the Internet at all? It's about censorship - the medium that it occurs over is almost irrelevant in the issue. Censorship is wrong (on this level, when it hides the truth-edit). I've yet to see someone give an argument where it is a good thing.
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March 23, 2010 2:32:06 AM

It's easy to judge China as a harsh authoritarian state but I think China is not ready for the social and political freedoms enjoyed in the West. Liberal democratic values can't just be forced on a country, they need to evolve and be accepted over a period of time. I actually think the Chinese government is doing a pretty good job of running the country. They're stable, they have a healthy, growing economy and while their record on human rights is not too good, at least they haven't started any wars recently.
As for Google, they get props for standing up for themselves, too bad it'll cost them financially.
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March 23, 2010 2:40:10 AM

frozenleadCensorship is wrong. I've yet to see someone give an argument where it is a good thing.


Several European nations have laws prohibiting denying the Holocaust, prohibiting Nazi symbols and prohibiting hate speech. I think censorship in those cases is understandable. There is a balance between freedoms and the public good and every country has the right to set that balance for themselves because it's their responsibility as are the consequences.
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March 23, 2010 2:46:42 AM

frozenlead Censorship is wrong. I've yet to see someone give an argument where it is a good thing.


Child pornography? Islamic terrorism sites are monitored. I'd also say that's close enough.

The level of censorship you're willing to deal with is another person's communism. It's all relative, and maybe 10% of the people (who post) here understand that. It's like when tea party people complain how socialism is so evil when they use the U.S. Post Office, call the police for help, and send their kids to public schools. LOOK IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE.
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March 23, 2010 2:47:59 AM

killerclick Liberal democratic values can't just be forced on a country,
(a lot of other things, cut out for no wall of text)

it can't be forced on people, but i don't think it should be forced out of the peoples hand. who is to say what is the right? put it out there, and let nature take its course.
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March 23, 2010 2:52:14 AM

killerclickSeveral European nations have laws prohibiting denying the Holocaust, prohibiting Nazi symbols and prohibiting hate speech. I think censorship in those cases is understandable.


What is understandable about prohibiting denial of the Holocaust? Should we also ban denial of global warming, 9/11 and the dangers of smoking?

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" -Evelyn Beatrice Hall
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March 23, 2010 2:52:43 AM

killerclickIt's easy to judge China as a harsh authoritarian state but I think China is not ready for the social and political freedoms enjoyed in the West. Liberal democratic values can't just be forced on a country, they need to evolve and be accepted over a period of time. I actually think the Chinese government is doing a pretty good job of running the country. They're stable, they have a healthy, growing economy and while their record on human rights is not too good, at least they haven't started any wars recently.As for Google, they get props for standing up for themselves, too bad it'll cost them financially.


Thank you for saying it more rationally than I could.

I think a lot of United States citizens are mad because the media says China is taking our jobs and they say it's ok to hate them because of their evil communism. People don't realize that the main reason China is thriving is that they aspired to be like us. They wanted to be swimming in wealth like we were perceived to be doing. The United States grew strong on cheap factory labor (just like China has). The problem with us now is that most people just want to complain about it because that's what the media does. Everybody living in a modern society is going to be force fed opinions (this includes me), but a lot of people don't realize that it's happening.
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March 23, 2010 2:57:17 AM

zachary kit can't be forced on people, but i don't think it should be forced out of the peoples hand. who is to say what is the right? put it out there, and let nature take its course.


Do you know anything about history? Revolution usually comes from the banning of ideas or freedoms (followed by a grim, bloody war). You should be thanking China for taking the next step towards the inevitable (whether it works out or not).
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March 23, 2010 2:58:38 AM

randomizerWhat is understandable about prohibiting denial of the Holocaust? Should we also ban denial of global warming, 9/11 and the dangers of smoking?"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" -Evelyn Beatrice Hall


I smell a TRUE libertarian!
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March 23, 2010 3:07:11 AM

randomizerWhat is understandable about prohibiting denial of the Holocaust? Should we also ban denial of global warming, 9/11 and the dangers of smoking?"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" -Evelyn Beatrice Hall


Denial of the Holocaust is understandably censored because it it unbelievably hurtful to those affected by the Holocaust. Hate-speech like this can be considered a crime in some case because of the emotional harm you can inflict on someone. You may have a scientific theory of why global warming and the hazards of smoking don't exist, but to deny history is insanity.
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March 23, 2010 3:14:52 AM

tarheels_100Denial of the Holocaust is understandably censored because it it unbelievably hurtful to those affected by the Holocaust. Hate-speech like this can be considered a crime in some case because of the emotional harm you can inflict on someone.


That is why censorship is so dangerous. Because a small minority are offended, everybody gets their mouths taped up. Maybe we should ban talk about rape because it hurts people affected by it. Disagreement about the legitimacy of historical records is not hate speech. It's disagreement speech.

tarheels_100You may have a scientific theory of why global warming and the hazards of smoking don't exist, but to deny history is insanity.


Accepting it without question because someone will get offended if you don't is just as bad. All evidence should be examined.
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March 23, 2010 3:32:31 AM

China couldn't bear any free thoughts getting out. Really this is going to violently blow up in China's face at some point in the future. Every oppressed citizenry will eventually rise up and revolutionize.
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Anonymous
March 23, 2010 3:40:30 AM

for a country that so closely and strictly control the flow of information and monitor it's denizens internet usage, the Google servers were sat behind the great firewall of china after all, you have to wonder why the government didn't finger the culprit who hacked Google....

the censorship is just a side gag, Google just wants to kick up a fuss and say that teach you to hack us
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March 23, 2010 3:45:09 AM

How about we allow Google to do what it wants to do. its a company that can back out and deny its service to anybody it wants to as the rights of a business. Personally, I dont support communist officials or anybody who supports communism, so im going to go ahead and support google. thanks.
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March 23, 2010 3:57:23 AM

randomizerWhat is understandable about prohibiting denial of the Holocaust? Should we also ban denial of global warming, 9/11 and the dangers of smoking?


As I said there is always a balance between individual freedoms and the public good and the governments are the ones who have to manage that balance. So the Chinese can't search for Tiananmen on the Internet, the Saudis can't cheat on their spouses, the Austrians can't deny the Holocaust and you must wear (at least some) clothes in public or you'll get arrested.
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March 23, 2010 4:02:25 AM

catfish are good
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Anonymous
March 23, 2010 4:03:51 AM

what a bunch of pompous prats

the holocaust has nothing to do with censorship and all to do with making a country owe up to their mistakes, we talking to a country who was directly involved with the first world war, after which, refused to admit they did anything wrong and held onto the belief that were wrongly castigated, leading directly to them instigating the second world war

the law to prevent denial of the events of the holocaust is to shame them into admitting they did something wrong and owing up to their misdeeds, nothing to do with hurting people's feelings or censorship, just making sure we dont get a premature WW3
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March 23, 2010 4:07:17 AM

I'm wondering why Google entered into an agreement with the Chinese government. The agreement required censorship. Google must have known that.
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March 23, 2010 4:09:41 AM

China has always been the Loser, it's in their Blood.
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March 23, 2010 4:16:32 AM

Goggle = SUCCEED

BING = FAIL

Yahoo! = FAIL
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March 23, 2010 4:34:57 AM

glad to know google has more balls then our current goverment
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March 23, 2010 4:55:39 AM

tarheels_100Denial of the Holocaust is understandably censored because it it unbelievably hurtful to those affected by the Holocaust. Hate-speech like this can be considered a crime in some case because of the emotional harm you can inflict on someone. You may have a scientific theory of why global warming and the hazards of smoking don't exist, but to deny history is insanity.


The Turks still deny the Armenian massacre. Why isn't that also against the law?

I think you miss the point completely. If someone wants to deny the genocide of the Jews, why is that so different from other things? You have people claiming Global Warming is a big problem, and that has some serious consequences as well. Who's to say that humans weren't put here to recover some of the carbon that has vanished from the ecosystem?

That's the problem when you start saying what can and can not be said. It's OK to deny the Armenians were massacred, but not the Jews? Are you a Jew? Sure sounds like it. If not, why this one thing? How about all the people that say Hitler wanted to conquer the world. Should be outlaw that, as well, because it's completely untrue, but strangely widely believed? Or how about the 'fact' that the U.S. was militarily defeated in Vietnam. It's untrue, but I hear it a lot. Should we make that illegal? It sure is hurtful to a lot of people, especially the ones that fought there.

Be careful with censorship. It's almost impossible to censor and be consistent with it. It's a fool's errand.
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March 23, 2010 4:58:20 AM

I think a lot of you are missing the point in that Google tried to comply with regulations, even at the cost of their reputation. They made a 'safe' version of Google for Chinese consumption that censored most of the taboo stuff. Then what happens? China breaks its own laws and sends out hackers to compromise Gmail accounts outside of their territory. Stuff like this could lead to arrest, torture, or imprisonment to the account-holders who were compromised should they ever step foot in China.

Basically, it doesn't make sense to play by China's rules because there is no accountability for anyone who works in their communist party. They can do whatever the hell they want - break any law they please - but you have to bend over and 'respect' their institutions. Sounds like a lose-lose proposition to me!
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March 23, 2010 5:07:31 AM

"In fact, no country allows unrestricted flow on the Internet of pornographic, violent, gambling or superstitious content, or content on government subversion, ethnic separatism, religious extremism, racialism, terrorism and anti-foreign feelings."

America does.... OHHHHHHHHHHH snap.
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Anonymous
March 23, 2010 5:25:50 AM

I'm confused. Doesn't that mean that Google gets like a million dollars from China for being the biggest loser, or am I mistaken?
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March 23, 2010 5:31:57 AM

In my oppinion just think about 1 bilion of little chiness going all over the world because there contry is democratic. Just the idee freaks me out..not because the people r bad..but just because there a LOTTTTT.

For the USA guyz here...50 years ago you had slaves..saw pls don't judge other countries and goverments.

About the other crap that there's on the internet...well let's just say..porn to the left...porn to the right...everywere is porn saw hell yeah censorship that crap...if you want it just buy it :) )
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March 23, 2010 5:40:38 AM

biggest loser...hmm
that mean they win like 100 billion yen from the chinese?
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Anonymous
March 23, 2010 7:01:42 AM

All the biggest US companies actually worked for the Chinese government to censore chinese content, and that includes companies such as Microsoft, Google, CISCO ... etc It's not about politics here, it's about money as always.
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March 23, 2010 7:21:31 AM

JonathanDeaneMaybe, maybe not. Either way it was bound to happen sooner or later, either Google was going to check out of China or China was going to boot them. I think China plans on booting allot of companies out eventually.


Agree, but only after these companies surrendered their technologies and know-how to the chinese gov't, then they will get booted off china.

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Anonymous
March 23, 2010 7:38:35 AM

I wonder why there some many people here keep saying CHINA hack google. is there any evidence that these hacker are send by the chinese government? dam. I beleive you people should really spent more time to think about main reason why you lose your job and how to get more jobs in the future. I guess high salaries and high currency value strategy ddint work out anymore. since you are poor now and how the hell you still saying your money is worth to hold in hand? plus UN wants new global currency to replace USD now.
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March 23, 2010 7:59:25 AM

"...to China, which has its own time-honored tradition, culture and value."

Traditions and values?

You mean like opressing your own people, express old sorts of middleage thinking? As in "don't mess with others internal affairs" and then keep practicing the precise opposite (Tibet, Taiwan, Hong Kong)?

No wonder I skip Chinese products.
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March 23, 2010 8:07:20 AM

I've always been suspicious about Google, but I give them HUGE props for their decision.

China suffers from SDS, small d* syndrome.
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March 23, 2010 8:10:33 AM

googlegone:

You go away now. China no good. Why you no good? Yeah, we poor and have obama, but we can still wipe you all out.



Why you no use your brain? Google is a corporation and wants to make as much profit as possible. Why would they antagonize the world's biggest search engine user if their accusations about the chinese government hacking were unfounded?
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March 23, 2010 8:11:25 AM

China needs to hurry up and have a cival revolution and overthrow there governement.
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March 23, 2010 8:22:53 AM

The worst part about censorship is that **** ***** * *** **** ***** *** ** ***** when you least expect it *** **** ***** your cousin with **** ****** only to find your pants still ******* ** * *** **** **** in a puddle of goat-flavored lubricant.
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March 23, 2010 8:52:16 AM

JWL3I've always been suspicious about Google, but I give them HUGE props for their decision.

I really don't care for Google's decision because it's just a publicity stunt with no substance. They are happy to censor some Australian search results as long as they fly under the radar, but because the China issue is so widely covered in the media it's the perfect opportunity for them to polish their company image.
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