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So Playstation 3 was on Life Support

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May 31, 2008 8:36:07 AM

Doesn't look to good that there will be a Playstation 4. CEO of Sony confirmed that Playstation 3 is still loosing money for the company and one of the quotes "We're coming along, I think." doesn't sit to well with me. The entire session was pretty stunning as nobody quite realised how much Sony had sunk into Playstation 3 and how they had put all their eggs into one basket. Even now Nintendo is outselling both X-box 360 and Playstation 3 combined which has Sony backpeddling in the hopes that Blue-Ray will save the Playstation 3. This is it for Playstation. Sony won't make the same mistake twice nor can the afford to do so.

Microsft 360 is still loosing around a $100.00 per console. Unlike Sony they can afford to eat the costs and will make it up down the road with their own Games for Windows. I think the X-box 360 will be the last Console as Microsoft has done what they sought to do which was kill the one thing that was a threat. Now Microsoft will focus on Games for Windows and refocus their "Windows Every Where" strategy. There was and is a lot more to "Games for Windows" than just a name. Microsoft is heading up the PC Gaming Alliance and though it is small I see it growing.

Nintendo has the niche market. Microsoft needs a second puppet company to keep anti-trust off their backs. I don't see Microsoft gunning for Nintendo. Nintendo did there own thing and by doing so will probably be the only company that keeps making consoles. They have the family market and they are pulling a nice tidy profit by doing so. They're not a threat to Microsoft and will probably go out of the way to make sure they don't. They protect Microsoft from Anti-trust and will be rewarded for doing so.

In another year the Consoles will begin to get that dated look. Unlike PC Gaming where the Graphics just get better and better the Console is stuck in one gear. Sure they looked good when they first came out but what about a year from now and two years from now. Being able to just pop in a disk and play a game has it's advantages but you better believe it has it disadvantages too. When the Games that begin to come out that just blow the Playstation 3 away the questions will begin to be asked "Where is the new one?"

I don't want to get into Apple and Linux. Apple is begining to make headway but do we need another Gaming OS? I think in the next two years Microsoft is going to take Apple head on in the PC area for gaming and just like they did to Sony smash them. We also have ReactOS that will begin to come into play in the next two years. Expect great things as developers begin to move towards just one Platform for all there creating needs.

Sony's Playstation 3 was a fiasco and still is. It might be a great Console System but it's still just a Console. It targetted a niche group of players who take pride in their computer systems. The Hard Core Gamers love their PC's and usually hand build them to a specification that few are willing to reach. If Sony had made it so the Playstation 3 could easily be Modded out with different GPU's, CPU's, fans, etc.. then Sony would of been able to capture this market but they didn't... In the end all they did was make another Console. It's a great Console but compared to my PC it doesn't have that built in pride that Gamers have come to love.

May 31, 2008 11:43:11 AM

Well thats a switch. Doomsaying consoles eh?

While MS might be losing $100 per console sold, they make money on every game sold for that console, every extra controller bought, every overpriced cable with the logo on it, etc.

The end result is, while they might not be raking in the money and showing huge profits, they probably are not doing too badly for themselves.

Sony on the other hand has proven to be persistent and unwilling to learn from their mistakes. They make the same ones over and over again. Sometimes they get lucky, but when they do they also fail to learn from their successes. The PS2 was one of the most successful consoles ever made and they just pissed away every advantage it had.

No, I'd be surprised if this was the last competitive console generation. Though I expect MS will have learned a few things and will streamline even more next time.
May 31, 2008 2:18:52 PM

Cuddles said:
Doesn't look to good that there will be a Playstation 4. CEO of Sony confirmed that Playstation 3 is still loosing money for the company and one of the quotes "We're coming along, I think." doesn't sit to well with me. The entire session was pretty stunning as nobody quite realised how much Sony had sunk into Playstation 3 and how they had put all their eggs into one basket. Even now Nintendo is outselling both X-box 360 and Playstation 3 combined which has Sony backpeddling in the hopes that Blue-Ray will save the Playstation 3. This is it for Playstation. Sony won't make the same mistake twice nor can the afford to do so.

Microsft 360 is still loosing around a $100.00 per console. Unlike Sony they can afford to eat the costs and will make it up down the road with their own Games for Windows. I think the X-box 360 will be the last Console as Microsoft has done what they sought to do which was kill the one thing that was a threat. Now Microsoft will focus on Games for Windows and refocus their "Windows Every Where" strategy. There was and is a lot more to "Games for Windows" than just a name. Microsoft is heading up the PC Gaming Alliance and though it is small I see it growing.

Nintendo has the niche market. Microsoft needs a second puppet company to keep anti-trust off their backs. I don't see Microsoft gunning for Nintendo. Nintendo did there own thing and by doing so will probably be the only company that keeps making consoles. They have the family market and they are pulling a nice tidy profit by doing so. They're not a threat to Microsoft and will probably go out of the way to make sure they don't. They protect Microsoft from Anti-trust and will be rewarded for doing so.

In another year the Consoles will begin to get that dated look. Unlike PC Gaming where the Graphics just get better and better the Console is stuck in one gear. Sure they looked good when they first came out but what about a year from now and two years from now. Being able to just pop in a disk and play a game has it's advantages but you better believe it has it disadvantages too. When the Games that begin to come out that just blow the Playstation 3 away the questions will begin to be asked "Where is the new one?"

I don't want to get into Apple and Linux. Apple is begining to make headway but do we need another Gaming OS? I think in the next two years Microsoft is going to take Apple head on in the PC area for gaming and just like they did to Sony smash them. We also have ReactOS that will begin to come into play in the next two years. Expect great things as developers begin to move towards just one Platform for all there creating needs.

Sony's Playstation 3 was a fiasco and still is. It might be a great Console System but it's still just a Console. It targetted a niche group of players who take pride in their computer systems. The Hard Core Gamers love their PC's and usually hand build them to a specification that few are willing to reach. If Sony had made it so the Playstation 3 could easily be Modded out with different GPU's, CPU's, fans, etc.. then Sony would of been able to capture this market but they didn't... In the end all they did was make another Console. It's a great Console but compared to my PC it doesn't have that built in pride that Gamers have come to love.
If you read the speech, he said the PS3 WAS on life support, as in it no longer is. Microsoft has the money to waste on the 360 because their other products and services(not games for Windows, they probably lose money on that as well just like the Zune), but don't think that Microsoft's stockholders will let them **** around with game consoles forever if they continue to lose money. Blah, blah great; just because you personally enjoy the PC as a platform more doesn't mean that everyone else does. You may like upgrading every two or less years, (I actually do too) but most owners of the PS3 and 360 don't want to spend money on a new system until they have to. For god's sake, look at the PS2. People are still buying it and it's been out since 2000. Most people are predicting that the PS3 will overtake the 360 sometime in 2009, and I wouldn't be too surprised really. Their last two consoles have both sold over 100 million units, and I expect at least a decent performance from the PS3 in the long run. That being said, I don't think anyone expects anything to outsell the Wii this generation.
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May 31, 2008 9:20:32 PM

all im saying is BLURAY its the future so playstation will be fine all my friends are selling there xbox 360's for playstations xbox like costs too much simply said playstation will be fine
May 31, 2008 9:34:12 PM

? I don't get why someone would sell their 360 unless they just hated nearly every game they bought for it.

Besides there is news of a bluray version of the 360 on the horizon.

Honestly, I don't consider the next gen formats to be that big of a deal. Bluray does not have the adoption rates that anyone expected and most people are sticking with their DVDs. I think price is the main factor. The disks just cost too much right now. I'd give it a couple years, but I don't think Bluray is going to be the magic cure for all the PS3 woes. I do think the PS3 will eventually turn a steady and reliable profit on sold games though.
May 31, 2008 10:22:23 PM

I was actually there and it was during the question and answer forum that you could really see just how much Playstation 3 has cost the company. He talked about not being able to see the top of the hill let alone being at the middle. There entire strategy is based around Blue-Ray and the hopes that it will save the Playstation 3. That's not a good strategy. The company is in serious trouble and I give the CEO kudo's for being honest about it. Playstation 3 cost a crap load to develop, the hardware is still more expensive than what they are getting per console, and at this time they are looking like they may of hit 5% margins. I don't think they have.
What it means is that Playstation 3 nearly killed Sony and I don't think they will go down that route again.
May 31, 2008 10:45:26 PM

They bet their most successful and profitable division on their least successful and profitable division. I don't understand what thought process led them to believe that was a good idea.

They have been trying to win a format war since VHS vs Betamax, and never have they won until now. And now that they have finally won.... they discover that the product wasn't really needed or wanted by the public yet. It was a short sighted and stupid idea to bundle this goal with such a poor track record with the Playstation which had such a phenomenally good track record. They could have controlled another console generation and all they would have had to do is undercut the 360 by a bit and make a console almost as powerful. That would have cut into Nintendo's market share as well.

Instead they came out with a product that was notably more expensive than all competitors and offered little to no discernible benefit except that it came with a player for a format that was still being contested in the market. By the time their format won, they had to discount their PS3 to the point where they were losing money faster than they could possibly earn it on the peripherals and games, at which point they started selling decent numbers, but each one sold was a loss of profit for Sony and a lot of people buying them aren't buying many games because they got it for the Bluray drive.

Sony is now banking on the idea that bluray will take off and save them because they killed the best thing that they could have fallen back on after a couple of years of really REALLY bad financial blunders.

June 1, 2008 2:46:26 AM

Here's another reason why I think the Console market is done. Microsoft is really pushing their Microsoft Every Where Idea and in the next year or two you will begin to see appliances that can talk to your PC. Not that big of a deal until you realise that in the next year or two after that then everything will be controlled through your PC. People like simplicity and Microsoft is gunning to make hooking your PC up as simple as just a few plugs and going. They want people to be able to go to one area and find all their Games, or Movies, or Recorded T.V. Shows. This was something Vista began to show. Another thing that really struck me about Vista was it's ease of use. I spent a day trying to get my Wireless Network going on my Son's Computer runing XP. Why spend $98.00 on a new OS when I already had one was my thinking. After incremental failures, exasperation, and just frustration I went ahead and gave Vista a go. Two clicks and I haven't had problems since. Not everybody wants to be a Network specialist to setup a Wireless Network and Microsoft does that. The 360 was to insure that the Gaming Industry remained firmly in their hands till they worked out where they needed to go to get there. In two to three years expect to see every game you could get on the 360 to be able to get on the PC as the lines become increasingly as one.

The Cost of the Console is supposed to be the main reason why the Console is safe. People just can't get a good gaming Computer at the cost of a Console but they are wrong. Recently I built my sons computer at a total cost of $423.00 including Vista Premium and it can run Bioshock / CoD4 on High/Medium settings and Crysis on Medium/Low. It runs on the GA-MA78G-DS3H Motherboard and a 5400 Athlon 2.8 CPU. It's an excellent Moderate Begining Computer that can play HD Movies, Games, get on the Internet, and do his School Projects with. It was easy to setup, is future proof, and has room for plunty of upgrades. For $50.00 more I'll put in a TV DVR Card. In about a month or two I'll be getting the 4870 and he'll be getting my 3870. This is something I couldn't do with a Console. What's more is there is this pride of ownership. He built his computer and when his friends come over he goes to great length to tell them what he did. You just can't buy that kind of thing with a Console.
June 1, 2008 9:02:53 AM

I think the 360 will die soon. It has to, games just aren't going on 9Gb discs, and game developers aren't going to be wanting to cripple their games forever.

Plus the Wii is TOSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Though it does sell well.
June 1, 2008 11:16:15 AM

?
The 360 is doing phenomenally well. Gamers have put up with swapping disks in the past and if it comes down to it, we can do so again. Programmers just need to make an option to install or disk swap as needed so that the people without a hard drive can still play the game and the ones with one won't have to worry about it.

Say what you will about the Wii, but it is outselling and outprofiting all competition and to be honest, that really is all that matters.
June 1, 2008 11:42:44 AM

Would you rather have crap games or good games?
June 1, 2008 11:49:47 AM

What thought process brought you to that question?
Also are you implying that games on the 360 currently are crap games? If so I wholeheartedly disagree. The 360's game library has some of the best games in recent memory on it.
Or are you implying that swapping discs automatically makes a game crap? If so I will point to FF7 as an obvious counterexample. And there are many others as well.

Really... what is your point?
June 1, 2008 11:57:11 AM

What is the point in having HUGELY powerful hardware and not upgrading the storage medium?

That's like buying an ENORMOUS engine...for your mini.
June 1, 2008 12:16:08 PM

The point is a matter of cost more than anything else.

It was too expensive to feasibly upgrade to an HD drive in the initial run.
What do you think has Sony so worried lately? Why do you think the general opinion is that the PS3 is failing? Because of cost. At first it cost too much for the consumer, and now it costs too much for Sony.

Are you so much of a PS3 fanboy that you can't see the writing on the wall?

Also, if you could fit that enormous engine in a mini, it would have a phenomenal power to weight ratio and absolutely rule at racing. Your analogy is ... silly.
June 1, 2008 12:22:57 PM

It would be front heavy and rubbish at corners. The tyres would squeal all the way, the gearbox would be limiting. the clutch would burn out almost instantly, the breaks wouldn't be big enough, and wouldn't go much faster than a normal mini in terms of top speed because of this.

I agree with the fact is was probably primarily too expensive, and also a lot of thickies were "converted" or fooled to 360ism because it was out first!
June 1, 2008 12:37:59 PM

Another note, Sony's games division is now turning a quarterly profit for the first time since the PS3's release. That doesn't mean that the PS3 is profitable at this point, but that it is no longer hemorrhaging money. They did this largely by nixing plans for a price cut on the PS3 which means that fewer will be sold/produced and they will just pull in money from the units already in homes.

We won't know for another 5 years probably whether this gamble actually managed to break even or pay off slightly. It is safe to say that their games division would have been far more successful with a lower priced console, but what remains in the air is how profitable Bluray will prove to have been for them.
June 1, 2008 12:45:30 PM

BluRay is going to profit. There is no way it can't. It is this generations optical storage medium. In a few years everyone will have a BluRay drive in their computer.

PS3 sales are picking up due to 45nm shrink, and the developers have caught up with the technology. The problem now is developers having to write for two consoles, one SEVERELY limited.

You always have to write for the **** console...

Look at CoD4...too short
Look at DMC4...the 9Gb limit showed
Look at Halo3...very repetitive.

See my point? The 360's 9Gb limitation is RUINING gaming.

It also means PS3 version of games are toss because developers cannot be bothered to port them properly.

Another reason why people unjustifiably think the PS3 is rubbish.
June 1, 2008 12:46:04 PM

And a BluRay version won't sort these problems out!
June 1, 2008 12:51:17 PM

I wouldn't say anyone was "fooled" to 360ism. The 360 is just a better console. It isn't notably more powerful or anything, but it is neck in neck with the PS3 which is the most expensive console out.

The 360's advantages mostly come in the form of Xbox Live. The live marketplace is extremely well designed and profitable. There are tons of games available on it and every one of them has a playable demo. The interface is smooth and easy to use. The design is just superior in every way to PSN. And since I couldn't give two craps about online multiplayer, a free silver account suits me nicely.

When my roommate picked up his PS3 I was excited to check out what PSN had available and try out some demos for PS3 games, but was immediately disappointed by the relatively tiny selection and even tinier selection of playable demos. Then there was the awkward interface that it has. I could not simply scroll through and queue up everything I was interested in. The menuing systems are convoluted and annoying. It is the worst designed console front end I have ever seen in my life.
June 1, 2008 12:58:37 PM

I think you are drastically overstating the problem with the media. Short games have more to do with production costs than media limitations, and FPSs have been repetitive since DOOM.

There also is very little difference in capabilities between the PS3 and 360, but the 360 gets better sales numbers so it gets developed for first.

The question isn't whether bluray will turn a profit, it is whether the profit it turns will be sufficient to make up for not having the front runner console this year and that is highly debatable.

Also it is not a foregone conclusion that everyone will go bluray. DVD is still going very strong and most people see little to no reason to upgrade yet.

If bluray costs drop WAY down then we will see good adoption levels, but right now the prices are outside of reasonable. When we see Bluray movies consistently for $15 or less, then it will go mainstream. The question is though, will that happen before it is replaced by even better technology? There are already several poised to swoop down and take the crown. Will Bluray become another laserdisk? That is the question.
June 1, 2008 1:17:19 PM

@infornography42 regarding the DVD medium: I don't think its even possible to argue that the 360's optical drive isn't ruining games for the thing, and also games for other machines.

Yes, games like Halo 3, Devil May Cry 4 and Call of Duty 4 are all excellent and look good, feel sophisticated, etc. etc. But there is a very clear feel in all 3 of those games (as examples) that the developers have not been able to create even close to the experience they had in mind because they physically cannot fit enough information on the disc.

Halo 3, while excellent, uses the same environments over and over again. Virtually every single level you play through one way then another, and it gets to the point that you know what the next part of the game is going to be because you haven't gone back to the start of the current level yet. Bungie themselves have said Halo 3 would have been longer and more varied if they were developing with a blu-ray disc.

Devil May Cry 4, while again excellent, suffers from exactly the same problem. You play virtually every level twice (albeit in a different order to Halo 3). This is painfully evident when facing each boss for the third time in exactly the same environment.

Call of Duty 4, another good game, has the same problem. It is arguably worse in Call of Duty 4 than the other two games, because while Halo 3's story might be able to persuade you that going back and forth all the time is realistic military practice, this doesn't work atall in Call of Duty 4 and it just makes the mission feel rather pointless.

All 3 of the games I have mentioned above as examples have extremely short single-player campaigns. We have not entered a new age where games developers have suddenly become extremely lazy, this problem is because a console with very high sales is using a storage medium that was used in the last generation of consoles 8 years ago.

---

@infornography42 regarding online functionality: When considering PSN vs. Xbox Live, I am surprised to hear you say that Xbox Live is superior. Live often does not function properly and this has lead to many users being unable to even boot their console without unplugging their connection to the internet (due to the unnecessary adverts on almost every page of the Dashboard). Sony have recently redesigned the Playstation Store and it is now much better than it was. I think its far from perfect, its still not fast enough for my liking and there should be a dedicated "game demos" section as in Xbox Live.

Navigating the Playstation Store and Xbox Live for downloadable content is neither here nor there, its always going to be a matter of opinion; however the annual charge for Xbox Live cannot be ignored - especially since this is for a service that often does not function properly! Online multiplayer is much more accessible to PS3 users, since they just boot the game and go.

The argument that £40 a year is only the cost of a single game and therefore irrelevant is not valid, since the minute you start paying for something, your view of it changes dramatically. You suddenly feel obliged to use the service you are paying for, as opposed to simply using it whenever you feel like it.

---

@infornography42 regarding the power of the two consoles: I agree in part about you assessment that "There also is very little difference in capabilities between the PS3 and 360". The GPUs in both machines, while being very different from each other architecturally, can be considered to have a similar capability. The RAM configuration, again while different architecturally, is quite similar in practice. The PS3's CPU, however, gives it a significant advantage for software programmed exclusively for the PS3. It is a lot more powerful than the 360's CPU, IF used properly. Unfortunately, we are yet to see the PS3 being used to its full potential or even close, but I believe we will see this soon.

---

@jonisginger: in fairness your analogy was terrible, lol.

On a side note I hope everybody is enjoying their weekend =)
June 1, 2008 1:42:05 PM

Regarding Xbox Live. As I said, I use the free silver account and am perfectly happy with it. I just don't have any interest in playing online multiplayer. $40 a year is reasonable though for those who do care about that functionality.

I have not once ever had the problems you describe with the live marketplace. I'm not even sure what you are referring to with that.

Maybe next weekend when I have some free time I'll give the PSN store another go, but I was really turned off by it last time.

As for the storage media.... while there may be some limitations involved for some games, they could easily be overcome by setting up and either you install on the hard drive or you swap disks configuration. I don't see a problem with that. And I also don't see it affecting very many games notably.

The fact of the matter is that 2005 and 2006, hell even 2007 were too early for an HD drive in a console. The costs related to that were too high. Now that costs have come down some, things could work out for it, but we are still fairly early into the middle of the current console generation. It just wasn't feasible and that was proven by Sony. They did it anyway and it has cost them dearly.
June 1, 2008 8:15:52 PM

Another sign that Microsoft will probably pull from the Console Market either this upcoming Generation or the one after that is that if purchase Vista you get Microsoft Live for Free. Not a lot of people even know about this feature(hell I just learned about it last week) but from what I understand any game that is "Games For Windows" makes use of the Microsoft Live Network. If anybody has any more information on this I would like to know more.
Here's my question:
How do you turn on the Microsoft Live Feature in Vista?
Any special equipment?
Is it truly free or is it something you get free but to get the full package you have to pay more?
I did some investigating and from what I can tell only two games right now are really using "The Games for Windows" abilities. To fully use them you need the X-box 360 Controller for Windows and you hit the Guide then it takes you into the Live Program for that Game.
Another neat feature is that Microsoft wants the Game to start and play as soon as you put in the Disk. Just like a console except the Game Installs in the Background and once installed you no longer need the Disk. This would be a huge step in PC Gaming and really helps illustrate Microsofts long term plans for their OS.
June 2, 2008 1:35:13 AM

Now I've seen everything in this thread; we've got crazies claiming that the 9GB limit of a DVD9 is the reason Call of Duty 4, Devil May Cry 4, and Halo 3 weren't the most original games in the world? Then we have some guy who think that being able to use a free MESSENGER service in Vista is proof that Microsoft isn't really interested in supporting the Xbox360 for very long. I'm sure they spent billions of dollars on the Xbox line simply to show customers how much better a PC with Vista is. :sarcastic: 
June 2, 2008 10:05:35 AM

Live isn't just a Messenger service and I wasn't talking just about X-box Live. I was also talking about "Tray and Play".
With Microsoft it is never just one thing it is always a lot of things. I am sure that Microsoft plans to support the Xbox 360 and the X-Box for a very long time. There is millions of people who use their systems. What you should expect next is to see on the Cover of Future Games is both a Games for Windows and X-box360.
June 2, 2008 10:09:10 AM

Quote:
Now I've seen everything in this thread; we've got crazies claiming that the 9GB limit of a DVD9 is the reason Call of Duty 4, Devil May Cry 4, and Halo 3 weren't the most original games in the world?


@Heyyou27: Actually I didn't comment on the originality of those games atall; I commented purely on their length and variety of environments while conceding that despite the limited space available on the media, they are still excellent games. Are you contesting that they contain fewer environments than they otherwise might have if it were not for the limited space available?

The upcoming game for PS3, Metal Gear Solid 4, will fill the current 50GB capacity of a blu-ray disc - that's more than 5x the space available on a DVD. While it is true that a lot of space is being used for cinematic sequences, there can be little doubt that Metal Gear Solid 4 will contain more environments than the 3 games mentioned earlier. It will be nice to play an epic game that doesn't feel stranged by the console it is written for. :) 
June 2, 2008 11:01:38 AM

Maybe I'm not getting something, but if the size of the DVD would be THE game limiting factor, wouldn't we then see PC games out there spanning multiple DVD's for installation? Crysis did not seem to suffer from the fact that it is shipped on one DVD.

It may become an issue in a year or two but to say that it is already manifesting itself is a bit too much if you ask me.

The main driver for the BlueRay adoptionrate (over DVD) will be HDTV. People with full HD TV's will appreciate what BlueRay has to offer and that is also the reason why the adoption rate is/will be slower than what happened with DVD over VHS. DVD gave immediate obvious benefits over VHS at the time of introduction, which is simply not true for BlueRay if you have not yet upgraded your TV to full HD (and that also holds for all those people out there that replaced their old TV with a sub HD TV set, there's lots of HD-ready tv's out there already).

BlueRay adoption in PC's for storage will be secondary. Optical backups are instable and inconvenient compared to using regular hard disks that bring cheaper GB's by the hour nowadays. Game delivery will shift to direct downloads more and more, so no media limitation in gamesize anymore.

BlueRay discs mark the era of transitioning from media carriers to direct downloading all of our content (including movies and tv content) through the net.
June 2, 2008 11:26:36 AM

i don't get how they make a profit from the PS3 the PS3 only costs slightly more than a blu-ray drive but have to buy a game with the ps3
June 2, 2008 11:36:12 AM

Am i missing something here? how is the ps3 expensive? here in the Uk its £50 more, if you buy an x-box, u get no blu-ray, no wireless, a sh**ty non easily upgraded harddrive wireless controllers with built in rechargable batteries.. its a superior console... its not much more expensive, but the one thing that stops it... its the games... theres hasnt been much out that was decent. now things are catching up, HAZE looks awesome, theres some original titles coming out. As for the "direct download bollocks" nobody wants to sit and wait ages to download a game, and the internet infrastructure (especially in the UK) cannot handle the bandwidth required. So don't get your hopes up on digital content because it aint gonna happen for a long time.

As i see it sony will surely be making money on the licensing of blu-ray products, so essentially if MS do get bluray... sonywill get money from it?

As for bluray adoption... I think you'd be suprised. Theres a lot of people doing the bluray thing, especially in the UK because the cost of HD content from other sources just isnt feasable. You have to pay £300 for a sky HD box, and then an extra £10 a month, and there just isnt enough channels. so people are taking to blu-ray and rentals from blockbuster.

As for the console industry dying ... BWAHAHAHAHAHAA. your average PC cannot run games at 1080p can it? no.. in fact it will struggle at 720p. so the idea of streaming the games (which is what i think people are trying to get at) isnt quite feasable. not only that, but not everyone is a fan of wired networks and run wireless... and i just couldnt trust wireless for the throughput needed.

As for the $423 PC that runs games... well i can only imagine you are running low res and not at the resolutions of the x-box / ps3.If you are running these games at high res.. could you please explain to me how you have managed such a feat with a budget graphics card?

sorry for the rant but theres a lot of bull here based on opinion rather than facts.

FACT: a pc @ $423 cannot play games aswell as a ps3
FACT: The X-box has a better gaming library
FACT: blu-ray is going to be around for a long time
FACT: digital downloads is a seriously flawed concept
FACT: the PS3 is catching the X-box360
FACT: I'm sure this crap came out during ps2 times aswell?
June 2, 2008 11:51:30 AM

I think almost all PCs geared towards gaming will manage 720p if not 1080p. We're not talking average PCs here...

And digital downloads are great. Orange Box took about 45mins. I'm in Warwickshire btw, on Tiscali (eugh)
June 2, 2008 11:54:23 AM

Hmm, I'd question some of those "facts" of yours.

I'm not sure about a PC at $423, but it wouldn't surprise me that much. I'm fairly certain one at $700 could easily. Maybe if I get bored, I'll see what I could slap together.

It is still too early to bank on bluray in my opinion. It is entirely possible for one of the promising new technologies to kick off it's crown and shove it down the stairs.

Digital downloads have already proven to be a very effective concept and steam is doing great. It might not work as the ONLY distribution method, but it could easily work as the MAIN distribution method at least in the US and Japan.

I don't remember any of these difficulties back with the PS2. It was pretty much a success from day 1.

As for the relative cost of the PS3.... I was referring to when it came out. Its initial price point was significantly more expensive than the 360. Also the 360 does have wireless built in and a wireless controller comes with it. After that initial price point, the PS3 has been steadily discounted to the point where Sony is losing their pants on each unit sold.

Quite frankly to say that the PS3 is significantly better than the 360 is just bias. Though I do wish I could easily upgrade the 360's hard drive.
June 2, 2008 12:06:54 PM

gow87 said:

FACT: digital downloads is a seriously flawed concept


FACT: Valve make more money selling their game on Steam then they do by selling via stores.


At the rate the PS3 is catching up on the 360 we will have to wait to 2050 for it overtake it, in the US at least it's only been the last couple of months the PS3 has out sold the 360 and that's only by 30,000 units or so.
June 2, 2008 12:08:25 PM

The thing is this..

Blueray has not caught on as well as it was expected to due to the main reason is that practically all people own DVD players and they dont need to replace them. Plus dvd players are available for 20 quid upwards and hdmi with upscaling from £40 !

DVD is still a great format due to that it costs half price or less of Blu-ray films

Some dvd's out there are less than a fiver and pound for pound / dollar for dollar there is not really much difference when upscaling a dvd to 1080i than 1080p films except for over 4 to 5 times the price of a 25 quid blu-ray film..

DVD's are still very well watchable.

I remember a watching a blu-ray disk round a mates and it was a direct port of a dvd and there was no difference what so ever...my mate was well gutted.

Also to the fact that most people still have CRT TV's which will not be advantageous to Blueray or any hd format..

Now i would say that most people's Blueray players are bundled with PS3s which just sits there.
Games are 50 quid each and the games and operating system on the xbox 360 is just that much better with exclusive content (GTA 4 anyone ! ) and cheaper....

And unfortunately a lot of people have copied dvds in their collection so the format will not change for a long while yet, where blu-ray films are harder to "backup".


What developers are going to develop a game for a system at a high budget for a platform that has had a very bad start from the beginning. I would say most are saying - see how it goes . Compared to the other consoles out there the PS3 is apparently a pig to program for and then again Microsoft developement tools are much better better and cross platform with little tweaks needed to change form xbox360 to pc...

Yes I hear you cry PS 3 has better hardware -

So what no games are in 1080p anyway at the most 720p, all games are DVD9 in size on a PS3 anyway... If there is one i forgotten on blu-ray and I don't think it is then it is filled with 1080p video anyway.

At my local Game shop in Chelmsford, Essex, UK the Xbox360 games is selling 15 games to one ps3.

Its the games which make money not the console so work that one out.....

have you actually used a ps3 to a xbox 360 ( im not including the wii as this isnt even in the same league as these two so its not competing against them the Wii is an experience not to be missed - Mario Kart is just the mutts nuts ) Xbox live system is just that much much better than ps3 online system, and as for games ther is very little to distinguish between them.

Sony's main **** up was losing ps2 compatibility...I could understand it would be a main selling point using old games on a new machine.. Alas this stopped with the new version with a 40 gb hard disk after technical difficulties with the first 60 version.

The PS2 is one of the most remarkable marketting example today - they fudged it big time with ps3..

I loved my ps2, xbox 1
had better hard ware, well thought out piece of kit but had mid range support. Ps2 games however were priced right, played well and had loads.

Ps3 however is stuck between a rock and a hard place most kids have ps2s and ps3 is out of reach for most parents due to the very high cost of games...

Most people go in to shops, see 100+ games for xbox, see 20 plus for ps3 and make their choice.. When Xbox games are cheaper then this is the obvious choice to the un-trained eye...
June 2, 2008 12:12:39 PM

Why is everyone bashing the Wii? It's so much fun when you've had 5/6 pints!

Even with an HDTV, the real difference in picture quality isn't noticable until you're talking 36"/42" TV which aren't particularly common.
June 2, 2008 12:27:11 PM

mi1ez said:
Why is everyone bashing the Wii? It's so much fun when you've had 5/6 pints!

Even with an HDTV, the real difference in picture quality isn't noticable until you're talking 36"/42" TV which aren't particularly common.



The Wii is great for 4 types of people

Kids
Family orientated
Grannies and grandads
and Drunk people who want a good laugh

The Wii, in my eyes keeps you entertained better than anything else
June 2, 2008 12:48:46 PM

mi1ez said:
Why is everyone bashing the Wii? It's so much fun when you've had 5/6 pints!

Even with an HDTV, the real difference in picture quality isn't noticable until you're talking 36"/42" TV which aren't particularly common.
You must not own a Wii then; I have all three of the consoles and I purposely don't connect my Wii to my 65" 1080p DLP because it looks like complete trash on that large of a display.
June 2, 2008 12:59:53 PM

infornography42 said:
?
The 360 is doing phenomenally well. Gamers have put up with swapping disks in the past and if it comes down to it, we can do so again. Programmers just need to make an option to install or disk swap as needed so that the people without a hard drive can still play the game and the ones with one won't have to worry about it.

Say what you will about the Wii, but it is outselling and outprofiting all competition and to be honest, that really is all that matters.


We "disk swap already".... Lost Odyssey.
June 2, 2008 1:06:29 PM

Ohhh come on.

The Wii is fun. For 10 minutes.

The PS3 is a much better and well thought out console. I'm getting sick of playing short games (CoD4) and games with rubbish textures (Condemned 2). Or limited games (Halo3). Or games

Crysis fitted on a DVD because its not a very long game is it, and if you'd notice the amount of extraction it does, its like 8-12gb installed, you can't do that on a console without a HDD...the 360.

Games can be compressed for a PC because of the presence of a HDD...which every PC has.

And, if it runs over, the compression can be continued onto multiple DVDs. You can't easily do that for a console, who wants to switch disks while LOADING a level?

I could put a 250gb SATA drive in my PS3 if I wanted, and then back it up for free.

Without the 360, or if the 360 had had a bluray from the start, games would have been much better!
June 2, 2008 1:09:23 PM

infornography42 said:
I think you are drastically overstating the problem with the media. Short games have more to do with production costs than media limitations, and FPSs have been repetitive since DOOM.


I agree with that statement... it has nothing to do with hardware.

infornography42 said:
There also is very little difference in capabilities between the PS3 and 360, but the 360 gets better sales numbers so it gets developed for first.


The main reason why the Xbox 360 outsells the PlayStation 3 is because (1) exclusive, AAA titles like Halo 3 and Gears of War... the PS3 doesn't have anything close beyond Drake's Fortune (2) lack of a multiplayer community although PlayStationHome should change that once it finally launches.

June 2, 2008 1:10:52 PM

Heyyou27 said:
Now I've seen everything in this thread; we've got crazies claiming that the 9GB limit of a DVD9 is the reason Call of Duty 4, Devil May Cry 4, and Halo 3 weren't the most original games in the world? Then we have some guy who think that being able to use a free MESSENGER service in Vista is proof that Microsoft isn't really interested in supporting the Xbox360 for very long. I'm sure they spent billions of dollars on the Xbox line simply to show customers how much better a PC with Vista is. :sarcastic: 


You go boy ;) 
June 2, 2008 1:20:34 PM

jonisginger said:
The Wii is fun. For 10 minutes.
The total number of units sold thus far proves your statement to be based on personal opinion, not actual fact.

All this yack yack about the fall of consoles and what platform is better is just nonsense. The fact is, a hardcore gamer will play on any platform, whether it's a Mac, PC, PlayStation 3 or Nintendo DS. It doesn't matter if you've built a $3k machine. If you're not willing to play on everything, then your biased, simple as that.
June 2, 2008 1:31:18 PM

The Wii is fun, but it honestly has no place in a debate about next gen consoles. I bought the Wii, I am glad I bought the wii and I use the wii, but it just is in a completely different category from the PS3 and 360.

There are about twice as many 360s out there as PS3s and everyone who bought a 360 did so for games, whereas a number of people who bought PS3s did so for Bluray. End result, 360 games notably outsell PS3 games. Regardless of whether you think it is the better console or got an unfair shake, it lost. Accept the fact that the 360 won this console generation and give up the crusade, you PS3 fanboys are starting to look rather silly.
June 2, 2008 2:18:23 PM

I agree that the Wii is in a different category which is one of the reasons why it will continue on.
PS3 maybe a great system. Hell, there is games I want to play on it so I'll pick one up. X-Box 360 prob not because most of the good games that come across the 360 are ported to PC.
The facts are Playstation 3 crippled Sony. I'm pretty sure the CEO was trying to paint the best picture that he could but that best picture was bad. What this spells out for the future of another Sony Console isn't very good at all. I don't think we'll see another Sony Console.
The X-box 360 is a different story. We may see one more console from Microsoft but I don't know. There is a lot of hidden features in Vista that give what the X-box 360 does for free. If they even take advantage of "Tray and Play" it would be huge step in PC Gaming. Right now though Microsoft wants people to buy the 360 so some of those hidden features in Vista are staying that way.

Resolution on my son's computer is 1680 X 1050 (22" LCD)
He's running a:
GIGABYTE GA-MA78G-DS3H AM2+/AM2 AMD 780G HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard
AMD Athlon 64 X2 5400
2 GB Corsair 1066
and then the usual from there.
On another post I did a build for under $350.00 not including OS that could play Bioshock, COD 4 at 1680 X 1050 on medium to high settings.
AMD did something special with the 780G chip because before this there was no way you could build a halfway decent Gaming Computer for under $700.00.

The future is going to be exciting. To many companies have to much at stake in PC Gaming to just let it go to the Consoles. They are starting to fight back. Microsoft would rather have their Window Product running everything than have it be branched into a million different items. They are almost Psychotic about it. In two years were going to see more games begining to use the Microsoft Live Network and Tray and Play. They are just being quite about it right now till SP2.

Wii is in a different category and I see them sailing fine into the future. In fact Nintendo maybe the only Console Maker of the future.

Playstation 3 has taken some brutal hits and though they are chugging along they are also taking on water. Not enough companies are invested enough into the Playstation 3 to come to it's rescue

June 2, 2008 2:35:53 PM

Heyyou27 said:
You must not own a Wii then; I have all three of the consoles and I purposely don't connect my Wii to my 65" 1080p DLP because it looks like complete trash on that large of a display.


I've never played on a big screen, I'll take your word.
June 2, 2008 5:32:14 PM

exfileme said:
The total number of units sold thus far proves your statement to be based on personal opinion, not actual fact.

All this yack yack about the fall of consoles and what platform is better is just nonsense. The fact is, a hardcore gamer will play on any platform, whether it's a Mac, PC, PlayStation 3 or Nintendo DS. It doesn't matter if you've built a $3k machine. If you're not willing to play on everything, then your biased, simple as that.


I am very biased. But I am PC biased so I am a good biased.

I personally hate most Sony products now a days. They used to be decent but in recent times they have been crap. Batteries catching on fire in laptops, DRMs galor and me having bought headphones that broke in less than a month. But maybe its just me.

BluRay is nothing. Its just HDDVD using a Blue laser. To tell the truth HDDVD should have won. It was cheaper and offered the same data storage. 23GB for a sinlg layer and 46GB for a dual layer. Oh BTW a dual layer Bluray disc is not 50GB its about 47GB +/- a few GB. I read once that one guy took a single layer DVD and had put a thin layer of Protein on it and it was able to hold in the 1000GB in data.

Either way its not a limiting factor and the thing is that a lot of the 25/50GB space is just used up by HD video. A Bluray X360, or X540 as it will be called with the GPU and CPU die shrink, will change the market a lot. What I have seen is that console gamers are always willing to buy a new version when a better one comes out. Happened with the PS2. When the lense would go bad and it wouldn't read disk some people just bought the new version. Some people boutght the new PS2 Slim when it came out and just sold their old PS2 to the game store. So when the X540 comes out you will see a lot of used X360s on the shelves.

But the reason why the 360 will continue to do better is b/c there only people who want a all in one normally can buy everything. A lot of people wnated just a console that played good games and the 360 was there and did it.

PS3 lovers need to realize that its very late in the game. They spent a lot of money and released it very late with little of a library and the most important thing is they said screw PS2 support. That really killed it in my eyes.

But in the end I am and will always be a PC biased guy. I would rather spend about $1500 on a nice gaming PC setup instead of on 3 consoles and supplies. Besides I like my PC cuz it looks cooler than a 360/PS3/Wii ever will looks cuz I have lots of Blue lights on it.
June 3, 2008 3:23:19 AM

Well time for the knock out blow.
Welcome to the DFC Intelligence Report.
http://www.dfcint.com/wp/?p=206

In a Fragmented Market PC Games Lead the Way
February 29, 2008

This month DFC Intelligence announced the acquisition of tools and technology research company M2 Research (press release). This acquisition will help us expand our coverage of the critical issues and challenges the interactive entertainment industry faces cost effectively delivering products across multiple markets and platforms, using multiple business models. The game industry is growing on a global basis, but controlling costs is becoming more critical than ever. Furthermore, the issue of cost control is complicated by the growing number of platforms being used for games. Consider that in 2007 some of the biggest selling games were for the Xbox 360, a platform that came in sixth place worldwide for unit shipments of video game hardware in 2007.

In today’s market the dedicated video game systems are only one piece of the equation. In terms of revenue, the largest single platform worldwide for 2007 was the PC. On a global scale, the PC as a gaming platform has maintained strong growth for some time. DFC estimates there are over 260 million PC gamers worldwide, and that should grow to close to 350 million by 2012. Of course, many games on the PC are available for free and it has always been difficult to generate revenue from the PC game market. However, as mentioned, DFC Intelligence estimates the PC gaming market is the largest single game segment on a revenue basis and it is expected to grow 80% over the next 5 years. On a worldwide basis the PC gaming market (including online game revenue) accounted for nearly 30% of interactive entertainment software revenue in 2007. Of course, that does not include all the PC hardware sales that are generated from gamers.

Of course, a major problem with the PC as an entertainment platform is it is somewhat amorphous in terms of adhering to a strict set of user-defined parameters. However, that downside is also in part what makes it such a distinct platform. The PC, like the TV has become a necessity in the household as a way to communicate and stay connected with others. There are obvious disadvantages of the PC over consoles that are well recognized – the cost of the hardware and the lack of plug-and-play features. However, unlike ten years ago, everyone now needs a PC and it is the video game systems that are the luxury. This is especially true in emerging markets where the PC has become the game platform of choice.

The PC platform is also the driver of much of the industry technology and innovation. The openness and dynamic nature of the PC lends itself well to advancing technology more rapidly than its closed-boxed counterparts. It is updated frequently, so when there are new technology shifts the PC is first to market. Game consoles on the other hand are updated every 5 years, leaving a great deal of time to pass before technology can catch up. It is this openness that allows for endless experimentation of the entertainment itself, as well as new business models distribution and revenue outlets.

Of course there are a growing number of gamers spending big bucks on souped-up, cutting-edge PC systems such as Intel’s Skulltrail or AMD’s Spider that can cost upward of $10,000. While uniquely impressive, these systems do not make up the core of the market. Much of the growth for PC games has come from the growing number of sub-$1,000 systems that have mass appeal to engage both individual and multiplayer gaming.

In 2007, the top selling title was actually an online game, Blizzard’s World of Warcraft. This is a product with over $1 billion in revenue for 2007, its third full year of operation. Of the 10 million World of Warcraft subscribers, 2 million alone were added just in 2007, many of whom are coming from emerging markets such as Asia.

The PC outstrips all the other platforms in emerging global markets. What we are seeing is a demographic shift in the industry whereby the PC is no longer viewed as an advanced piece of consumer electronics relegated to only the upper class. Instead it is becoming viewed as a vital household appliance used as a form of communication and expression in a world that has become borderless.

As such there are many variables needed to properly address the growing and fragmented market that is gaming. As the purchasing habits of consumers change there is a growing necessity to address other purchasing criteria aside from straight retail sales. Retail figures alone do not adequately capture the growing trend of online transactions both for digital distribution and micro-transactions. Additionally, as the tools are becoming more accessible and people start to experience more with the social dynamics of gaming, the PC lends itself well for consumer-defined content.

Whether it is the epic/AAA games, the multiplayer elements of social gaming, or casual gaming, consumers are selecting multiple platforms to best fit their lifestyle and demographics to their entertainment preferences. In the U.S., it is becoming routine for a single consumer to play games on consoles, PCs and portable game systems. With the acquisition of M2 Research, DFC Intelligence will have a growing focus on tracking and analyzing the PC as both a dedicated game platform and a driver of the tools and technology that are necessary for all aspects of video game business.

DFC Intelligence’s research services provide detailed strategic analysis of the interactive entertainment industry.
August 27, 2011 8:47:44 PM

hey, has anyone ever noticed cracking sounds from the ps3 (slim version)? i think it might be a CPU design problem that causes shorts.
August 29, 2011 11:50:24 AM

This topic has been closed by Mousemonkey
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