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Dragon Flight Questions

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Anonymous
March 15, 2005 3:06:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

I've always loved this skill, and have wanted to make an Assassin that uses
this as a primary skill, but I've always talked myself out of it.


Awhile back there was some discussion about how the kick damage for Dragon
Flight is applied differently than with Dragon Talon, but.........I can't
find the thread and I don't remember exactly what was said.

A quick search at the Amazon Basin didn't really shine much light on the
subject either. Does anyone have any specific info on this???



short

More about : dragon flight questions

Anonymous
March 15, 2005 4:26:47 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 12:06:30 -0500, short wrote:

> I've always loved this skill, and have wanted to make an Assassin that uses
> this as a primary skill, but I've always talked myself out of it.
>
>
> Awhile back there was some discussion about how the kick damage for Dragon
> Flight is applied differently than with Dragon Talon, but.........I can't
> find the thread and I don't remember exactly what was said.
>
> A quick search at the Amazon Basin didn't really shine much light on the
> subject either. Does anyone have any specific info on this???

This Assassin FAQ is quite good:

http://strategy.diabloii.net/news.php?id=538

But I'm guessing your memory is mixing up Dragon Flight and Dragon Tail.
Flight and Talon have a similar damage calc per kick, while Tail is
different. Most people think of Dragon Flight and Charge as PvP
skills, but since you like Charge for PvM, you might like
Dragon Flight too. However the damage from Dragon Flight will never
compare to Charge with a good weapon and aura.
Anonymous
March 15, 2005 4:26:48 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 13:26:47 -0600, Last2Know <grokkalot@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 12:06:30 -0500, short wrote:
>
>> I've always loved this skill, and have wanted to make an Assassin that uses
>> this as a primary skill, but I've always talked myself out of it.
>>
>>
>> Awhile back there was some discussion about how the kick damage for Dragon
>> Flight is applied differently than with Dragon Talon, but.........I can't
>> find the thread and I don't remember exactly what was said.
>>
>> A quick search at the Amazon Basin didn't really shine much light on the
>> subject either. Does anyone have any specific info on this???
>
>This Assassin FAQ is quite good:
>
>http://strategy.diabloii.net/news.php?id=538
>
>But I'm guessing your memory is mixing up Dragon Flight and Dragon Tail.
>Flight and Talon have a similar damage calc per kick, while Tail is
>different. Most people think of Dragon Flight and Charge as PvP
>skills, but since you like Charge for PvM, you might like
>Dragon Flight too. However the damage from Dragon Flight will never
>compare to Charge with a good weapon and aura.

A maxed speed assassin with a Harmonized merc and the paladin Charge
skill would probably resemble Dash from the Incredibles :-)
Related resources
Anonymous
March 15, 2005 7:32:46 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Last2Know" <grokkalot@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:p an.2005.03.15.19.26.46.232200@yahoo.com...
> On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 12:06:30 -0500, short wrote:
>
> > I've always loved this skill, and have wanted to make an Assassin that
uses
> > this as a primary skill, but I've always talked myself out of it.
> >
> >
> > Awhile back there was some discussion about how the kick damage for
Dragon
> > Flight is applied differently than with Dragon Talon, but.........I
can't
> > find the thread and I don't remember exactly what was said.
> >
> > A quick search at the Amazon Basin didn't really shine much light on the
> > subject either. Does anyone have any specific info on this???
>
> This Assassin FAQ is quite good:
>
> http://strategy.diabloii.net/news.php?id=538
>
> But I'm guessing your memory is mixing up Dragon Flight and Dragon Tail.
> Flight and Talon have a similar damage calc per kick, while Tail is
> different. Most people think of Dragon Flight and Charge as PvP
> skills, but since you like Charge for PvM, you might like
> Dragon Flight too. However the damage from Dragon Flight will never
> compare to Charge with a good weapon and aura.
>
>
I know it won't compare to Charge, but its just so COOL!!! :o )

The FAQ says it isn't bugged, so maybe it isn't. For some reason I remember
reading something about how DFlight doesn't do as much damage as it should,
or something. It's pretty hard to find information on something when you
don't really know what you're looking for............

I was considering a Fury/Trap/Flightsin, of some sort, like
10 Tiger Strike
20 Dragon Flight
1 Death Sentry
18 Fireblast
20 Shadow Master
1 Blade Fury

Cast CoS, charge up TS, Flight into the middle, make a corpse, Flight back
out, lay some Sentries, and BF from the edges :) 
Or maybe 20 TS/10 Dragon Flight, that might be higher damage, I'll have to
look into that.


Also, since you brought up Charge.......
Did they fix the Charge bug? I've used it almost constantly, and haven't
gotten stuck, or perma-following any monsters, or anything! :) 
However, how does this skill actually get implemented? And how much does
Weapon Speed matter? I haven't really noticed a difference between a really
slow weapon and a fast one yet.
Scenario: I'm Charging a Blood Lord
I attack, and 1 of 3 things can happen
1. Nothing
2. Little Red Animation Occurs, Blood Lord gets knocked back, but takes no
damage.
3. Little Red Animation Occurs, Blood Lord either gets knocked back, or
goes *Poof*

I'm assuming that (1) is when I miss, (2) is when I get blocked, and (3) is
a successful hit. Right?
Anonymous
March 15, 2005 7:32:47 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 16:32:46 -0500, short wrote:

>
> "Last2Know" <grokkalot@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:p an.2005.03.15.19.26.46.232200@yahoo.com...
>> On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 12:06:30 -0500, short wrote:
>>
>> > I've always loved this skill, and have wanted to make an Assassin that
> uses
>> > this as a primary skill, but I've always talked myself out of it.
>> >
>> >
>> > Awhile back there was some discussion about how the kick damage for
> Dragon
>> > Flight is applied differently than with Dragon Talon, but.........I
> can't
>> > find the thread and I don't remember exactly what was said.
>> >
>> > A quick search at the Amazon Basin didn't really shine much light on the
>> > subject either. Does anyone have any specific info on this???
>>
>> This Assassin FAQ is quite good:
>>
>> http://strategy.diabloii.net/news.php?id=538
>>
>> But I'm guessing your memory is mixing up Dragon Flight and Dragon Tail.
>> Flight and Talon have a similar damage calc per kick, while Tail is
>> different. Most people think of Dragon Flight and Charge as PvP
>> skills, but since you like Charge for PvM, you might like
>> Dragon Flight too. However the damage from Dragon Flight will never
>> compare to Charge with a good weapon and aura.
>>
>>
> I know it won't compare to Charge, but its just so COOL!!! :o )

There are a lot of builds/strategies that use DF for movement.
But trying to make it the main killer in PvM is probably
harder than doing that with Charge and only a little easier
than doing it with Leap Attack. IMO, high levels of mind
blast are the most synergistic with DF from a strategy point
of view.


> The FAQ says it isn't bugged, so maybe it isn't. For some reason I remember
> reading something about how DFlight doesn't do as much damage as it should,
> or something. It's pretty hard to find information on something when you
> don't really know what you're looking for............
>
> I was considering a Fury/Trap/Flightsin, of some sort, like
> 10 Tiger Strike

IMO, Tiger Strike seems mainly of interest in conjunction with
Dragon Tail.

> 20 Dragon Flight
> 1 Death Sentry
> 18 Fireblast
> 20 Shadow Master
> 1 Blade Fury
>
> Cast CoS, charge up TS, Flight into the middle, make a corpse, Flight back
> out, lay some Sentries, and BF from the edges :) 

Mind Blast is pretty essential for right after "flight into the middle"
but the overall problem is that you will not make a corpse on hell
level (and might not even hit). Better would be 1pt. DF to the middle,
Mind Blast, Tiger Strike+Dragon Tail = massive area of effect damage,
repeat as necessary (stay away from a mana burning boss who isn't much
affected by Mind Blast).


>
> Also, since you brought up Charge.......
> Did they fix the Charge bug? I've used it almost constantly, and haven't
> gotten stuck, or perma-following any monsters, or anything! :) 
> However, how does this skill actually get implemented? And how much does
> Weapon Speed matter? I haven't really noticed a difference between a really
> slow weapon and a fast one yet.
> Scenario: I'm Charging a Blood Lord
> I attack, and 1 of 3 things can happen
> 1. Nothing
> 2. Little Red Animation Occurs, Blood Lord gets knocked back, but takes no
> damage.
> 3. Little Red Animation Occurs, Blood Lord either gets knocked back, or
> goes *Poof*
>
> I'm assuming that (1) is when I miss, (2) is when I get blocked, and (3) is
> a successful hit. Right?

Do Blood Lords have a blocking animation? I know Diablo secretly
blocks but there is no animation associated with it. Are you
wearing crushing blow or deadly strike gear?
Anonymous
March 15, 2005 8:06:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"short" <shorts@zoominternet.net> wrote in message
news:39p2ktF5ve7qrU1@individual.net...
> Also, since you brought up Charge.......
> Did they fix the Charge bug? I've used it almost constantly, and haven't
> gotten stuck, or perma-following any monsters, or anything! :) 
> However, how does this skill actually get implemented? And how much does
> Weapon Speed matter? I haven't really noticed a difference between a
really
> slow weapon and a fast one yet.

For charge, weapon speed doesn't matter.

> Scenario: I'm Charging a Blood Lord
> I attack, and 1 of 3 things can happen
> 1. Nothing
> 2. Little Red Animation Occurs, Blood Lord gets knocked back, but takes
no
> damage.
> 3. Little Red Animation Occurs, Blood Lord either gets knocked back, or
> goes *Poof*
>
> I'm assuming that (1) is when I miss, (2) is when I get blocked, and (3)
is
> a successful hit. Right?

Right.
Anonymous
March 15, 2005 8:10:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Last2Know" <grokkalot@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:p an.2005.03.15.22.02.57.355506@yahoo.com...
> On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 16:32:46 -0500, short wrote:
>
> >
> > "Last2Know" <grokkalot@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:p an.2005.03.15.19.26.46.232200@yahoo.com...
> >> On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 12:06:30 -0500, short wrote:
> >>
> >> > I've always loved this skill, and have wanted to make an Assassin
that
> > uses
> >> > this as a primary skill, but I've always talked myself out of it.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Awhile back there was some discussion about how the kick damage for
> > Dragon
> >> > Flight is applied differently than with Dragon Talon, but.........I
> > can't
> >> > find the thread and I don't remember exactly what was said.
> >> >
> >> > A quick search at the Amazon Basin didn't really shine much light on
the
> >> > subject either. Does anyone have any specific info on this???
> >>
> >> This Assassin FAQ is quite good:
> >>
> >> http://strategy.diabloii.net/news.php?id=538
> >>
> >> But I'm guessing your memory is mixing up Dragon Flight and Dragon
Tail.
> >> Flight and Talon have a similar damage calc per kick, while Tail is
> >> different. Most people think of Dragon Flight and Charge as PvP
> >> skills, but since you like Charge for PvM, you might like
> >> Dragon Flight too. However the damage from Dragon Flight will never
> >> compare to Charge with a good weapon and aura.
> >>
> >>
> > I know it won't compare to Charge, but its just so COOL!!! :o )
>
> There are a lot of builds/strategies that use DF for movement.
> But trying to make it the main killer in PvM is probably
> harder than doing that with Charge and only a little easier
> than doing it with Leap Attack. IMO, high levels of mind
> blast are the most synergistic with DF from a strategy point
> of view.
>
Yup. That makes sense.

>
> > The FAQ says it isn't bugged, so maybe it isn't. For some reason I
remember
> > reading something about how DFlight doesn't do as much damage as it shou
ld,
> > or something. It's pretty hard to find information on something when
you
> > don't really know what you're looking for............
> >
> > I was considering a Fury/Trap/Flightsin, of some sort, like
> > 10 Tiger Strike
>
> IMO, Tiger Strike seems mainly of interest in conjunction with
> Dragon Tail.
>
Yeah, I hate DTail. Always have, for some reason.

> > 20 Dragon Flight
> > 1 Death Sentry
> > 18 Fireblast
> > 20 Shadow Master
> > 1 Blade Fury
> >
> > Cast CoS, charge up TS, Flight into the middle, make a corpse, Flight
back
> > out, lay some Sentries, and BF from the edges :) 
>
> Mind Blast is pretty essential for right after "flight into the middle"
> but the overall problem is that you will not make a corpse on hell
> level (and might not even hit). Better would be 1pt. DF to the middle,
> Mind Blast, Tiger Strike+Dragon Tail = massive area of effect damage,
> repeat as necessary (stay away from a mana burning boss who isn't much
> affected by Mind Blast).
>
Ohyes, MB is definitely in the mix. No Tail though, for me :)  Maybe
Talon, but no Tailing ;) 
Not hitting could be veryvery bad, esp around Fanatic Extra Strong Archers.
On that note though, I'd probably MB and DF them instead anyway.

>
> >
> > Also, since you brought up Charge.......
> > Did they fix the Charge bug? I've used it almost constantly, and
haven't
> > gotten stuck, or perma-following any monsters, or anything! :) 
> > However, how does this skill actually get implemented? And how much
does
> > Weapon Speed matter? I haven't really noticed a difference between a
really
> > slow weapon and a fast one yet.
> > Scenario: I'm Charging a Blood Lord
> > I attack, and 1 of 3 things can happen
> > 1. Nothing
> > 2. Little Red Animation Occurs, Blood Lord gets knocked back, but takes
no
> > damage.
> > 3. Little Red Animation Occurs, Blood Lord either gets knocked back, or
> > goes *Poof*
> >
> > I'm assuming that (1) is when I miss, (2) is when I get blocked, and (3)
is
> > a successful hit. Right?
>
> Do Blood Lords have a blocking animation? I know Diablo secretly
> blocks but there is no animation associated with it. Are you
> wearing crushing blow or deadly strike gear?
>
>
>
Nope, I haven't noticed any blocking animation. I do have some CB on the
boots, and/or weapon, but figured I wouldn't see that animation if the
attack was blocked. I'll try out Zeal and see if I see the same animation
(although offhand I don't recall seeing this one other than with Charge.

Also, I'm just confused. If the attack was blocked or I miss, why the heck
are they getting knocked back? It could be desync I guess.


short - Shiflet should see this thread, methinks
Anonymous
March 15, 2005 9:24:39 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 17:10:30 -0500, short wrote:

>> >> This Assassin FAQ is quite good:
>> >>
>> >> http://strategy.diabloii.net/news.php?id=538

>> > I was considering a Fury/Trap/Flightsin, of some sort, like
>> > 10 Tiger Strike
>>
>> IMO, Tiger Strike seems mainly of interest in conjunction with
>> Dragon Tail.
>>
> Yeah, I hate DTail. Always have, for some reason.

Did you try it at high skill levels with TS and
with Myrmidon greaves? I think it can get up to
like 20K damage or so with the splash (avg that
over time frame of 4 attacks is still decent
considering it is area of effect for non fire
immunes).

The key point that the FAQ above makes clear is that
Dragon Tail is the only kick that really gives a good
damage multiplier because it multiplies damage dealt, and
damage dealt already includes the strength multiplier
(of course the downside is that 'Tail does squat against
PI and stone skin monsters).

Dragon Talon is cool also because it makes all sorts of
weapons as fast as Zeal is with the very fastest weapons,
but the physical damage part of each kick doesn't compare
to a Zealot or Fury Wolf with good gear (skill bonus is
only ~150%, strength bonus basically adds twice rather
than multiplies, best weapon phys damage is only 83-149
base, and stuff like deadly strike and %damage to demons
doesn't work).
Anonymous
March 17, 2005 12:40:08 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 16:02:59 -0600, Last2Know <grokkalot@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Mind Blast is pretty essential for right after "flight into the middle"

Hmm, lately I've found that having a few stunned or "converted"
critters in the group *before* flying in seems to be much more
survivable than flying in and trying to blast them.


>but the overall problem is that you will not make a corpse on hell
>level (and might not even hit). Better would be 1pt. DF to the middle,

I'm not sure that a successful "To hit" has to be made to connect, but
with a low level DF one of my assassins would have to make repeated
casts at times to get to the target. With a higher level DF (and
lower total AR) another of my assassins almost always gets there in a
single cast. Perhaps someone more versed in the game technicals can
correct or modify my musings.
Anonymous
March 17, 2005 12:44:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 18:24:39 -0600, Last2Know <grokkalot@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 17:10:30 -0500, short wrote:
>
>>> >> This Assassin FAQ is quite good:
>>> >>
>>> >> http://strategy.diabloii.net/news.php?id=538
>
>>> > I was considering a Fury/Trap/Flightsin, of some sort, like
>>> > 10 Tiger Strike
>>>
>>> IMO, Tiger Strike seems mainly of interest in conjunction with
>>> Dragon Tail.
>>>
>> Yeah, I hate DTail. Always have, for some reason.
>
>Did you try it at high skill levels with TS and
>with Myrmidon greaves? I think it can get up to
>like 20K damage or so with the splash (avg that
>over time frame of 4 attacks is still decent
>considering it is area of effect for non fire
>immunes).
>
>The key point that the FAQ above makes clear is that
>Dragon Tail is the only kick that really gives a good
>damage multiplier because it multiplies damage dealt, and
>damage dealt already includes the strength multiplier
>(of course the downside is that 'Tail does squat against
>PI and stone skin monsters).
>
>Dragon Talon is cool also because it makes all sorts of
>weapons as fast as Zeal is with the very fastest weapons,
>but the physical damage part of each kick doesn't compare
>to a Zealot or Fury Wolf with good gear (skill bonus is
>only ~150%, strength bonus basically adds twice rather
>than multiplies, best weapon phys damage is only 83-149
>base, and stuff like deadly strike and %damage to demons
>doesn't work).

Nor do charms add to the damage unfortunately.
Crushing blow, leeching and venom work through :-)
Anonymous
March 18, 2005 2:11:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Last2Know" <grokkalot@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:p an.2005.03.16.00.24.38.513256@yahoo.com...
> On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 17:10:30 -0500, short wrote:
>
> >> >> This Assassin FAQ is quite good:
> >> >>
> >> >> http://strategy.diabloii.net/news.php?id=538
>
> >> > I was considering a Fury/Trap/Flightsin, of some sort, like
> >> > 10 Tiger Strike
> >>
> >> IMO, Tiger Strike seems mainly of interest in conjunction with
> >> Dragon Tail.
> >>
> > Yeah, I hate DTail. Always have, for some reason.
>
> Did you try it at high skill levels with TS and
> with Myrmidon greaves? I think it can get up to
> like 20K damage or so with the splash (avg that
> over time frame of 4 attacks is still decent
> considering it is area of effect for non fire
> immunes).
>
So average of 5k or so per attack, you mean?

> The key point that the FAQ above makes clear is that
> Dragon Tail is the only kick that really gives a good
> damage multiplier because it multiplies damage dealt, and
> damage dealt already includes the strength multiplier
> (of course the downside is that 'Tail does squat against
> PI and stone skin monsters).
>
I still think that should be classified as a bug, and needs fixed.
Exploding arrow doesn't freak out if you plink a PI target, does it?

> Dragon Talon is cool also because it makes all sorts of
> weapons as fast as Zeal is with the very fastest weapons,
> but the physical damage part of each kick doesn't compare
> to a Zealot or Fury Wolf with good gear (skill bonus is
> only ~150%, strength bonus basically adds twice rather
> than multiplies, best weapon phys damage is only 83-149
> base, and stuff like deadly strike and %damage to demons
> doesn't work).
>
Yeah, but Crushing Blow does, and that is all my Kicker needed, really (as
long as the Might Merc stayed alive, anyway).

I just found some Ethereal Gimmers the other day, so I'm thinking about
another Kicker.


short
Anonymous
March 18, 2005 3:53:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:11:29 -0500, short wrote:

>
> "Last2Know" <grokkalot@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:p an.2005.03.16.00.24.38.513256@yahoo.com...
>> On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 17:10:30 -0500, short wrote:
>>
>> >> >> This Assassin FAQ is quite good:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> http://strategy.diabloii.net/news.php?id=538
>>
>> >> > I was considering a Fury/Trap/Flightsin, of some sort, like
>> >> > 10 Tiger Strike
>> >>
>> >> IMO, Tiger Strike seems mainly of interest in conjunction with
>> >> Dragon Tail.
>> >>
>> > Yeah, I hate DTail. Always have, for some reason.
>>
>> Did you try it at high skill levels with TS and
>> with Myrmidon greaves? I think it can get up to
>> like 20K damage or so with the splash (avg that
>> over time frame of 4 attacks is still decent
>> considering it is area of effect for non fire
>> immunes).
>>
> So average of 5k or so per attack, you mean?

Yes, if you include the charge ups as attacks.
But remember it spashes fire over an area so the
overall damage to a crowd is much higher.

>> The key point that the FAQ above makes clear is that
>> Dragon Tail is the only kick that really gives a good
>> damage multiplier because it multiplies damage dealt, and
>> damage dealt already includes the strength multiplier
>> (of course the downside is that 'Tail does squat against
>> PI and stone skin monsters).
>>
> I still think that should be classified as a bug, and needs fixed.
> Exploding arrow doesn't freak out if you plink a PI target, does it?

I don't know much about how the explosion damage of Exploding
arrow is calculated. Does +Dex increase it? One of my
D2 quirks is that I just shy away from all builds that
depend on reloading ammo (even in 1.09).


>> Dragon Talon is cool also because it makes all sorts of
>> weapons as fast as Zeal is with the very fastest weapons,
>> but the physical damage part of each kick doesn't compare
>> to a Zealot or Fury Wolf with good gear (skill bonus is
>> only ~150%, strength bonus basically adds twice rather
>> than multiplies, best weapon phys damage is only 83-149
>> base, and stuff like deadly strike and %damage to demons
>> doesn't work).
>>
> Yeah, but Crushing Blow does, and that is all my Kicker needed, really (as
> long as the Might Merc stayed alive, anyway).

Good qualifier. The effect of crushing blow scales down with the
monster life ball. Also, you only get the 1 player effect in
a multi-player game. So non-crushing blow damage is important
also.

> I just found some Ethereal Gimmers the other day, so I'm thinking about
> another Kicker.

Yeah, I mentioned application in my other post. I'm currently
building a DT'er with BF option to use Gimmers. In order to get the
BF option with Gimmers, I decided to go with a BA merc - I've got the
bastard up to level 31 now (yeah!). For DT, if there is sufficient
crushing blow on other gear (e.g. Guillaume's, Gore Riders, Duress)
then I think they are the best DT weapon against a single target.
Stormlash would help more in crowds because the Static and Tornadoes,
so I plan to try both.
Anonymous
March 18, 2005 5:09:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Last2Know" <grokkalot@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:p an.2005.03.18.18.53.24.828290@yahoo.com...
> On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:11:29 -0500, short wrote:
>
> >
> > "Last2Know" <grokkalot@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:p an.2005.03.16.00.24.38.513256@yahoo.com...
> >> On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 17:10:30 -0500, short wrote:
> >>
> >> >> >> This Assassin FAQ is quite good:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> http://strategy.diabloii.net/news.php?id=538
> >>
> >> >> > I was considering a Fury/Trap/Flightsin, of some sort, like
> >> >> > 10 Tiger Strike
> >> >>
> >> >> IMO, Tiger Strike seems mainly of interest in conjunction with
> >> >> Dragon Tail.
> >> >>
> >> > Yeah, I hate DTail. Always have, for some reason.
> >>
> >> Did you try it at high skill levels with TS and
> >> with Myrmidon greaves? I think it can get up to
> >> like 20K damage or so with the splash (avg that
> >> over time frame of 4 attacks is still decent
> >> considering it is area of effect for non fire
> >> immunes).
> >>
> > So average of 5k or so per attack, you mean?
>
> Yes, if you include the charge ups as attacks.
> But remember it spashes fire over an area so the
> overall damage to a crowd is much higher.
>
Right.

> >> The key point that the FAQ above makes clear is that
> >> Dragon Tail is the only kick that really gives a good
> >> damage multiplier because it multiplies damage dealt, and
> >> damage dealt already includes the strength multiplier
> >> (of course the downside is that 'Tail does squat against
> >> PI and stone skin monsters).
> >>
> > I still think that should be classified as a bug, and needs fixed.
> > Exploding arrow doesn't freak out if you plink a PI target, does it?
>
> I don't know much about how the explosion damage of Exploding
> arrow is calculated. Does +Dex increase it? One of my
> D2 quirks is that I just shy away from all builds that
> depend on reloading ammo (even in 1.09).
>
Hehe!!
So, what about a Magic Arrow Zon?? :o )

>
> >> Dragon Talon is cool also because it makes all sorts of
> >> weapons as fast as Zeal is with the very fastest weapons,
> >> but the physical damage part of each kick doesn't compare
> >> to a Zealot or Fury Wolf with good gear (skill bonus is
> >> only ~150%, strength bonus basically adds twice rather
> >> than multiplies, best weapon phys damage is only 83-149
> >> base, and stuff like deadly strike and %damage to demons
> >> doesn't work).
> >>
> > Yeah, but Crushing Blow does, and that is all my Kicker needed, really
(as
> > long as the Might Merc stayed alive, anyway).
>
> Good qualifier. The effect of crushing blow scales down with the
> monster life ball. Also, you only get the 1 player effect in
> a multi-player game. So non-crushing blow damage is important
> also.
>
> > I just found some Ethereal Gimmers the other day, so I'm thinking about
> > another Kicker.
>
> Yeah, I mentioned application in my other post. I'm currently
> building a DT'er with BF option to use Gimmers. In order to get the
> BF option with Gimmers, I decided to go with a BA merc - I've got the
> bastard up to level 31 now (yeah!). For DT, if there is sufficient
> crushing blow on other gear (e.g. Guillaume's, Gore Riders, Duress)
> then I think they are the best DT weapon against a single target.
> Stormlash would help more in crowds because the Static and Tornadoes,
> so I plan to try both.
>
I don't have a Stormlash, but I'd sure try it if I had one :) 

I figure if I ever start this character that I'll use the Gimmers while
kicking, and when that gets too tedious I'll swap over to an Eth Hellslayer
for BFing a bit :) 

No BA Merc though, I don't think.


short - attack rating is over rated :o )
Anonymous
March 18, 2005 5:09:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 14:09:50 -0500, short wrote:

>
> "Last2Know" <grokkalot@yahoo.com> wrote in message


>>
>> Yeah, I mentioned application in my other post. I'm currently
>> building a DT'er with BF option to use Gimmers. In order to get the
>> BF option with Gimmers, I decided to go with a BA merc - I've got the
>> bastard up to level 31 now (yeah!). For DT, if there is sufficient
>> crushing blow on other gear (e.g. Guillaume's, Gore Riders, Duress)
>> then I think they are the best DT weapon against a single target.
>> Stormlash would help more in crowds because the Static and Tornadoes,
>> so I plan to try both.
>>
> I don't have a Stormlash, but I'd sure try it if I had one :) 
>
> I figure if I ever start this character that I'll use the Gimmers while
> kicking, and when that gets too tedious I'll swap over to an Eth Hellslayer
> for BFing a bit :) 

I know you are kind of joking, but Hellslayer, eth or not, is not really a
good BF weapon (2h penalty, "on attack" doesn't work with BF, etc). Avg.
elemental damage of Gimmers is 902. That's a big number! Avg. base
physical damage on the Gimmers is around 115 for a regular one, so around
170 for an eth one. It's really hard to think of a weapon and a
strength, skill boost to BF such that the skill factor multiplied by the
difference between that weapons damage (or half of its damage for a 2h)
and the phys damage of the Gimmers, even for a regular one, is going to
top 900. A perfect eth Death Cleaver combined with a Might merc and high
strength could do it, but such a weapon is really worth a fortune.

Sure you leech more with a larger physical percentage, but BF is a
relatively safe skill anyway. So I claim that your eth Gimmers will do
more BF damage to a single target than any other BF weapon you are likely
to have any time soon! Assuming you can hit the target with it often
enough...

What accounts are you playing these days? Is it still *shorts?
I've got 60-75% of the gear I want now on ladder so I'm looking
for people to quest with when I'm on. Usually after 10:30 GMT-6
(CST).
Anonymous
March 18, 2005 6:24:55 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo (More info?)

"Last2Know" <grokkalot@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:p an.2005.03.18.19.55.14.635175@yahoo.com...
> On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 14:09:50 -0500, short wrote:
>
> >
> > "Last2Know" <grokkalot@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
>
> >>
> >> Yeah, I mentioned application in my other post. I'm currently
> >> building a DT'er with BF option to use Gimmers. In order to get the
> >> BF option with Gimmers, I decided to go with a BA merc - I've got the
> >> bastard up to level 31 now (yeah!). For DT, if there is sufficient
> >> crushing blow on other gear (e.g. Guillaume's, Gore Riders, Duress)
> >> then I think they are the best DT weapon against a single target.
> >> Stormlash would help more in crowds because the Static and Tornadoes,
> >> so I plan to try both.
> >>
> > I don't have a Stormlash, but I'd sure try it if I had one :) 
> >
> > I figure if I ever start this character that I'll use the Gimmers while
> > kicking, and when that gets too tedious I'll swap over to an Eth
Hellslayer
> > for BFing a bit :) 
>
> I know you are kind of joking, but Hellslayer, eth or not, is not really a
> good BF weapon (2h penalty, "on attack" doesn't work with BF, etc). Avg.
> elemental damage of Gimmers is 902. That's a big number! Avg. base
> physical damage on the Gimmers is around 115 for a regular one, so around
> 170 for an eth one. It's really hard to think of a weapon and a
> strength, skill boost to BF such that the skill factor multiplied by the
> difference between that weapons damage (or half of its damage for a 2h)
> and the phys damage of the Gimmers, even for a regular one, is going to
> top 900. A perfect eth Death Cleaver combined with a Might merc and high
> strength could do it, but such a weapon is really worth a fortune.
>
> Sure you leech more with a larger physical percentage, but BF is a
> relatively safe skill anyway. So I claim that your eth Gimmers will do
> more BF damage to a single target than any other BF weapon you are likely
> to have any time soon! Assuming you can hit the target with it often
> enough...
>
> What accounts are you playing these days? Is it still *shorts?
> I've got 60-75% of the gear I want now on ladder so I'm looking
> for people to quest with when I'm on. Usually after 10:30 GMT-6
> (CST).
>
>
>
I'm on *shorts when MF/Countess running, and on with *shorts5 when questing.
Currently have a WB in Act 1 Normal, and a Pally just about anywhere in NM
:o )


short
!