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Intel's Future Chips: News, Rumours & Reviews - Page 5

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March 6, 2013 5:08:52 PM

de5_Roy said:
none of these are benevolent, enthusiastic, organizations that encourage technological and scientific innovation for the benefit of mankind. that's just an incidental side-effect of making profit.


Took the words out of my finger tips!
a b à CPUs
March 9, 2013 12:21:23 PM

de5_Roy said:
intel, amd, nvidia, arm, samsung, via, apple, sony, nintendo, microsoft, google, ouya, oculus (oculus rift) etc. - all businesses, all want our moniez and will stop at nothing to get them.



That won't change until society gets off their asses and demands a resource based economy, instead of a monetary based economy.

http://www.thevenusproject.com/

a b å Intel
a c 84 à CPUs
March 11, 2013 10:27:30 AM

Lynx Point USB 3.0 Controller Issue Correction Needs New Hardware
http://www.techpowerup.com/181269/Lynx-Point-USB-3.0-Co...

seems like it's not a cpu issue. may be that's why intel is so casual about it. calling it 'irritation' is just p.r. b.s. they still need to revise the chipset. unfortunately for intel, there's no unreleased chipset this time around (last time it was z68). usb 3.0 users (moi) will be pissed.

edit: btw i am over 13 yrs old even though people might doubt it, and i agree with the t.o.s. :pt1cable: 
March 11, 2013 11:07:43 AM

http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/30720-haswell-usb-30-...

Interesting. So if I'm reading these correctly:

1) You will not experience the issue if you completely disable sleep/hibernation modes. The computer will never go into the S3 (suspend to RAM) sleep mode in this case so it will never be waking from said sleep mode.

2) The issue is with the physical chips of the Z87 and/or Z85 chipsets and not the CPUs.

2) This is a problem with the actual chips themselves. It will take a modification to the physical design of the chipset for it to be resolved. Therefore this will be a problem with all of the first line of Haswell MB purchases will have this completely unfixable flaw. If you want Haswell without this issue then you will either have to wait until the revised chipsets (and motherboards using them) are released or build with the first line and then rebuild with a new motherboard once the revised chipsets are released.
a b å Intel
a c 84 à CPUs
March 11, 2013 11:19:40 AM

may be motherboard vendors can work around this by providing 3rd party usb 3.0 controller chips like the ones from asmedia or via. lynx point's usb 3.0 bug should make those guys very very happy. entry level users who may buy h81, b85 or h87 motherboards might be screwed.
March 11, 2013 6:39:04 PM

Hello everyone. Long time reader, first time poster.

Current Setup:
Intel E6850
GA-EP45-UD3P
Gigabyte GTX 550 Ti
Corsair XMS2 800Mhz 2048Mb x2
OCZ Vertex 1.0 60GB x2 RAID 0 (Windows 7 Ultimate x64)
Maxtor 300GB (Apps and Data)

I currently backup to a USB Seagate 500GB on the WNDR3700 and have a Google Drive account with 25GB for the really important stuff like porn... >.>

Anyways. I've been contemplating upgrading for some time and passing the current setup to my folks (those whom technology has forgotten). They'll probably use it for skype, internet, youtube, blah blah blah... who knows... The pc runs very snappy for those kinds of things.

I've decided to make a push in the product design arena by investing in a CNC Mill for prototyping, in addition to acquiring a few of the Autodesk Product Design apps, including Autocad, Inventor and 3D Max. Needless to say, the PC's performance begins to fall apart shortly after beginning to work. I would like to remedy this situation as it is very frustrating to have a computer stall while in the middle of the creative process.

The reason I post in this thread is because I've determined the LGA2011 is the better product for my needs. My only objection to the LGA1155 series is that they come with built in intel graphics. Investing in a product that offers a feature that has no possibility of ever being utilized is a worse investment than one that has a feature that maybe utilized. By this I refer to the multiple cores of either processor. Some applications still do not use multiple cores to the full extend such as Inventor, I believe. In the future other apps may. Therefore the price difference is justified in that the LGA2011 has 50% more L3 cache, something that can be utilized asap, better overclocking, more cores (might be utilized?)...

I know I will be utilizing a separate video card in the new system, while disabling the inboard video (if possible). Paying for Intel graphics is like alimony; it just ain't right! There I can't sum up how I feel about the Intel HD stuff any better.

SO!! The question at hand is, should I get an 3930k, wait for IB-E or ugh... pay for alimony...? I know there's no immediate info on whether IB-E is going to be released. I welcome and appreciate comments or suggestions from those with inside info that's not on this thread or has some clever perspective on why the current SB-E is still viable or why I should commit to 5 years of HD4000 quietly mocking me from within the case.

Thanks guys! (and/or gals)...
March 15, 2013 1:28:59 AM

^ So expect even more pricey z87 mobos :( 
a b å Intel
a c 84 à CPUs
March 17, 2013 10:59:02 AM

mayankleoboy1 said:
^ So expect even more pricey z87 mobos :( 

yeah, seems likely. it's possible that intel wants to measure haswell's reception including the glicth while clearing out ivy bridge. looks like a minor trend - with every tock, the chipset has a glitch....
a conspiracy theorist's version: intel intentionally crippled usb 3.0 on the lynx point chipset. the glitch doesn't really kill anything, it's just an annoyance. by making the glitch widely public, intel can justify haswell's slow rollout and high launch prices so that they can clear out ivy bridge inventory fast while selling haswell in a shrinking pc market at a higher average selling price (asp). ;) 
people might still not care if rumors like higher cpu performance, bclk overclocking, better t.i.m., better cpu overclocking, power efficiency etc. turn out to be true. a Lot of people bought sandy bridge despite cougar point bug and the platform as a whole was a (rather big) sales success.

JEDEC to Discuss Wide I/O 2, LPDDR4 Standards at Conference.
Upcoming JEDEC Conference to Focus on Mobile Technologies
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/memory/display/20130316080...

a b å Intel
a c 84 à CPUs
March 18, 2013 1:05:25 AM

haswell, previewed by toms
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-i7-4770k-haswe...

ima start with the good crap -
new instruction supports really speed stuff up.
the hd4600 igpu 'won' the luxmark 2.0 bench against the trinity 7660d igpu, very easy to miss.
marginal, negligible incremental cpu, igpu performance improvement.
preview says top of the line gt3 igpu can blow amd igpus out of water. we'll see.
haswell quadcore i5's will have easier time to keep up with 6-8 core amd cpus due to fma3 and avx 2 (haswell-ni) support as well as improved internal bandwidth. i know this sounds unlikely, but it's possible.
hd4600 seems to be available for all current skus. core i3 with gt2 will be easier to market against amd apus. gt3 will be even better but intel does not make biz. decisions that good.

bad crap -
usb 3.0 glitch with the chipset.
the e.s. used in the preview showed performance regressions in cases. in one of my fave benches, even - sandra memory bw.
if gt3 is that good, there no stopping intel from charging cutthroad prices for it. gt3 may become the core i7 3970x of the igpu market. typical of intel.
tsx has been screwed due to sku-ing, same with vt-d, igpu clockrate. just annoying.
i may be wrong, but haswell's igpu seems power inefficient. 7w higher tdp for just 4 more shaders?
softwares don't seem to be optimized for fma3, avx2 etc.
no word on how efficient haswell is, given it's so focussed on efficiency.
high prices cpus and high priced motherboards.
sidegrades, may be for even nehalem core i5 owners.
yawntastic.
March 18, 2013 11:39:20 PM

We're considering it, yes. We also have alternatives to that for on-die GPUs. Stay tuned
a b à CPUs
March 22, 2013 3:57:25 AM

Hearing now the i7 4770K will be around $50 more than the i7 3770k, that will make it a near $400 part, I am also assuming this will ripple through the product line so you will see $280 i5's and i3's getting perilously close to $200. This just doesn't sit well also knowing you need a new motherboard. Existing Sandy and Ivy owners shouldn't be at all interested in Haswell.

5-10% CPU performance.
10-20% iGPU performance.
Wait on the power numbers but I don't really see this as being anymore efficient than Ivy other than mature process, I think that fuddy duddy iGPU is sucking the life out of this one.

I still haven't seen whether HD4600 is carried through the SKU line up or whether washed down versions will come out to mitigate costs, I am inclined to believe tha latter or Intel will theoretically be losing money. GT3 remains the question here, twice as fast as HD4000 mobility, but on much higher costs, AMD richland kabini parts offered up to 60% over HD4000 mobility so in essence should see GT3 slower which will be very embarrasing if it works out like that. If GT3 doesn't destroy the mobility segment then haswell is a complete failure.


This weeks big winner was the on promotion A8 3850 which is looking very rosy that the "Beast" is a little like "magic pony". Though somehow I see Toms spinning this one up, using some benches where a $400 part can sort of keep up with a Devastator, ignore the ones where it gets a complete battering then call it adequate and how someone must go and buy a more expensive i3 with pissy graphics over a cheaper top end APU.


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March 22, 2013 9:41:31 PM

Intel Changes Plans: Set to Continue with Upgradeable LGA Platforms Even with Skylake Chips.
Intel to Continue Using LGA Packaging for Chips, Support Upgradeable Platforms Till at Least 2015
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20130322155320...
Microsoft Windows “Blue” Update to Boost Ultrabooks Featuring Intel “Haswell” Chips.
Major Windows 8 Update to Bring Longer Battery Life to Next-Generation Notebooks
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/mobile/display/20130322194...
a b à CPUs
March 22, 2013 11:26:35 PM

They will keep LGA for desktop, BGA will create the lock in effect which no DT owner will ever want.
a b à CPUs
March 22, 2013 11:47:31 PM

BGA is ok for SFF systems. It means they can be made smaller.

People who buy SFF systems are less likely to upgrade. They don't exactly use the fastest CPUs.
a b à CPUs
March 23, 2013 10:47:24 PM

^ Very much so, AMD have been doing BGA for SFF for a while, it cuts costs considerably.

GT3 will also not happen for DT in my opinion because; DT parts already use much higher power, adding 128MB of L4 cache will just proliferate the power consumption, added to the power needed to drive that system. On notebooks you run lower clocks and power consumption, extra node space can be made denser and ultimately GT3 is less power than a NV or AMD discrete mobility part so it makes sense in that area, add the fact that gaming on mobiles is not really a good experience and most using a notebook for gaming will use it as a LAN system. I am still waiting on GT3 but if it is truely 2x HD4000m and the Richland E parts are 60% faster than HD4000m then Richland E will still be 15% faster than GT3, so for a LAN gamer the Richland part will deliver better performance at half the price.

Its nice and all that Intel are trying to make a iGPU for budget level but in honesty I am not sold on it. Intels iGPU's are getting massive, and not scaling well at all while becoming power hungry, AMD's iGPU is getting smaller, exponentially faster and consuming less power.
a b à CPUs
March 24, 2013 3:49:52 AM

It doesn't matter.

Intel's IGPs are going up in performance.

6 Years ago, if you asked someone if they could game on an IGP, they'd say no. But now, you can actually achieve something like 720p gaming med details. Intel has done a lot for PC gaming. The worst GPU is no longer a GMA 950 without T&L supporting some ancient stuff or a GPU that can't even support Aero but a semi-decent igp.

As such, you don't see so many games designed with GMA 950-level graphics in mind.
a b à CPUs
March 24, 2013 9:52:46 AM

I suppose its getting better, and bigger and more power hungry and largely a distant second best.

GT3 is an endeavor to stop AMD and Nvidia eating into Intel profits on notebooks with discrete graphics. I don't believe it is equal to a GT650M which is albeit a weak 720P mobility part but that lends to the assumption that it was designed for 720 where the CPU can try shoulder the bulk load. Most people playing at 720P are more indie gamers in which case you don't need a $1200+ Haswell notebook to get by.


March 25, 2013 3:19:45 AM

amdfangirl said:
It doesn't matter.

Intel's IGPs are going up in performance.

6 Years ago, if you asked someone if they could game on an IGP, they'd say no. But now, you can actually achieve something like 720p gaming med details. Intel has done a lot for PC gaming. The worst GPU is no longer a GMA 950 without T&L supporting some ancient stuff or a GPU that can't even support Aero but a semi-decent igp.

As such, you don't see so many games designed with GMA 950-level graphics in mind.


3 or so years ago people thought I was insane saying they would be able to, now at this juncture, the good enough effect, and is what I see Intel trying to possibly achieve here may not really be good enough.
The market for gaming is going to fluctuate, with the new consoles coming, this moves the goalposts as to good enough.
The end game "level" for average Joe as to what games and how well they play on a given HW is still yet to be seen.
At some point, these two things will collide or dovert from one another.
The question is, will Intel continue if average Joe actually wants more, being that the new consoles affect means better HW?
a b å Intel
a c 84 à CPUs
March 25, 2013 7:27:21 AM

sarinaide said:
Hearing now the i7 4770K will be around $50 more than the i7 3770k, that will make it a near $400 part, I am also assuming this will ripple through the product line so you will see $280 i5's and i3's getting perilously close to $200. This just doesn't sit well also knowing you need a new motherboard. Existing Sandy and Ivy owners shouldn't be at all interested in Haswell.

most of these claims are partially debunked below. so much for fearmongering (which goes both ways...). :D  still, it remains to be seen how high haswells will be priced when they actually launch.
http://www.cpu-world.com/news_2013/2013032401_Intel_Has...

btw, if core i3's do go up to $200, amd won't sit still and sell their apus and quad cores at $110, they'll bump them up to $170-200, hex cores up to $230-260 since there won't be price competition (at $110-150) from intel. fx8xxx will go up to $300-360. it's just business. imagine how high amd cpus will hit if intel sells core i3's for $1000. :D 

amd has already tried this trick with bd, but customers put amd in it's rightful place after seeing how bd really performs and because they could go with core i3 and i5 at a similar price. but, with significantly higher intel cpu prices, the customers won't have that chance, enabling amd to successfully raise their prices. it's not like via's suddenly gonna jump in and start competing against amd.... :ange:  :sol: 
a b à CPUs
March 25, 2013 8:12:35 AM

Well the list shows its pricing has gone up nevertheless.

I know that the top end Kaveri is buzzed at around $150 but on the flipside it is packing a truely beastly iGPU and a more efficient arch so it makes sense.
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a c 84 à CPUs
March 26, 2013 9:43:09 AM

Shark Bay 1-chip platform chipset is Premium
http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/30871-shark-bay-1-chi...
hype of the year: Intel planning $599 Haswell Ultrabooks
http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/30870-intel-planning-$599-haswell-ultrabooks
i have a .... rather strong suspicion that it will be stuck at 'planning'...

Intel to Refresh Xeon Phi Coprocessor Line in Mid-2013.
Intel to Introduce Five New Knights Corner Models in the Middle of the Year
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20130326050047...
March 26, 2013 4:58:40 PM

to buy a 3930k or to wait? That is the issue...
a b à CPUs
March 26, 2013 11:34:11 PM

jaov2k said:
to buy a 3930k or to wait? That is the issue...


If you are not hashing/bitcoin mining or running a community grid then socket 2011 is not for you, the current mainstream i7 on 1155 basically renders socket 2011 as grossly irrelevent for a gaming rig and lower cost professional system.

If you want to buy and need a system now, just go buy a i5 or i7 on socket 1155, will give you everything you need.

a b à CPUs
March 27, 2013 3:34:25 AM

HD5100 with a baseclock of 1300mhz 0.o
March 27, 2013 9:58:13 AM

sarinaide said:
jaov2k said:
to buy a 3930k or to wait? That is the issue...


If you are not hashing/bitcoin mining or running a community grid then socket 2011 is not for you, the current mainstream i7 on 1155 basically renders socket 2011 as grossly irrelevent for a gaming rig and lower cost professional system.

If you want to buy and need a system now, just go buy a i5 or i7 on socket 1155, will give you everything you need.



Thank You! I greatly appreciate your response.
a b å Intel
a c 84 à CPUs
March 28, 2013 1:53:40 AM

haswell gets quick sync support
http://www.anandtech.com/print/6864/handbrake-to-get-qu...
Intel's PixelSync & InstantAccess: Two New DirectX Extensions for Haswell
http://www.anandtech.com/print/6863/intels-pixelsync-in...

edit:
Bay Trail Quad 22nm Atom in Q3 13
http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/30906-bay-trail-quad-...
One-chip Haswell ULT aims for 8- to 10-hour battery life
http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/30904-one-chip-haswel...

Intel Should Take ARM License and Stop Messing – Co-Founder of ARM.
Co-Founder of Intel Urges Intel to Start Developing ARM-Compatible Chips
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20130327124543...

EK Water Blocks Announces De-Lidded Ivy Bridge CPU Cooling Solutions aptly called EK-Supremacy PrecisEmount add-on Naked Ivy cpuS
http://www.techpowerup.com/182088/EK-Water-Blocks-Annou...
not for teh faintheated!

edit:
Intel’s New Extreme Processors Will Barely Improve Performance Significantly – Specifications.
Specifications of the First Core i7 “Ivy Bridge-E” Chips Get Published
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20130329141849...

edit:
Intel gets serious about graphics for gaming
http://techreport.com/news/24600/intel-gets-serious-abo...
...while game devs laugh...
a b å Intel
a c 84 à CPUs
April 8, 2013 4:33:19 AM

^^ so... what does that mean?

looks like haswell gt3 is coming to dt after all. albeit in bga form factor. amd fanboys' worst nightmare comes true.

"Intel to Enable High-End Small PCs with Core i “Haswell” Chips with Improved Graphics Egine in BGA Form-Factor.
Intel to Offer Leading-Edge Core i “Haswell” Chips with Improved Graphics in BGA Packaging"
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20130407082818...
dun! dun! dun!...

however. real world performance is another story. prices will be outworldly as well... :D 

edit: re-placed the dun!s. >_>
April 8, 2013 7:38:22 AM

It meana, its finely granulating of threads is a cache thrasher if true, which will slow it down with larger workloads, making it non competitive to GPUs in the markets where theyre to compete.
A smaller load level will suffice it appears.
It will come down to salesmanship, where they already have nVidia there, who does a good job, as most true usage is beyond the ease of use for the customer generally in whichever case they choose, be it GPU or x86 MiC.
Basically, they lose on the convenience factor having x86 at higher threading, it will come down to perf.
a b à CPUs
April 9, 2013 9:00:26 AM

de5_Roy said:
^^ so... what does that mean?

looks like haswell gt3 is coming to dt after all. albeit in bga form factor. amd fanboys' worst nightmare comes true.

"Intel to Enable High-End Small PCs with Core i “Haswell” Chips with Improved Graphics Egine in BGA Form-Factor.
Intel to Offer Leading-Edge Core i “Haswell” Chips with Improved Graphics in BGA Packaging"
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20130407082818...
dun! dun! dun!...

however. real world performance is another story. prices will be outworldly as well... :D 

edit: re-placed the dun!s. >_>


Yeah lets just lock ourselves into a dead upgrade path for 20 execution units and probably a crap load of money. Sounds like a money scheme, I just wonder who will fall hook line and sinker for this.
a b à CPUs
April 9, 2013 10:48:00 AM

^ fanboys/girls
a b à CPUs
April 9, 2013 1:26:11 PM

truegenius said:
^ fanboys/girls


Its more principle, Intel have grown concerned at how far integrated solutions have come, but this product is what exactly;

1) locked down
2) GT3 is largely unknown but maybe 20% tops better than HD4600
3) iGPU frequency is insanely high, if its performance is not at least on par with AMD offerings it will be alarming.
4) CPU frequency is actually as high as APU's so its hardly a clock rate scenario these days.
5) DDR3, iGPU strangle hold
6) BGA solution with top end i5's and i7's is going to cost a fortune make no mistake here, and what you buy is what you have forever, resale on locked in systems is poor to.

April 9, 2013 2:24:12 PM

Going BGA, using the top process, and cranking the frequency is exactly what I would expect of Intel.
BGA cuts power, widens thruput and their process speaks for itself.
This will be Intels best shot, using all these advantages, and if they cant do it here, they simply wont do it.
a b à CPUs
April 9, 2013 11:47:40 PM

Not many are to excited about BGA that I have spoken to, the idea of being locked in on DT is something that doesn't appeal to high power users, admittedly Intel as you say are trying everything to beat AMD in IGPU performance but at what cost, this is expensive to process and will cost the end user somewhere in excess of $700 plus the rest of the OEM parts which could easily see a $1k built in system on integrated graphics which is never going to stop a power user buying a LGA part. In mobility BGA is fine and Intel's mobile solutions will be impressive but this is just so fundamentally unsound the idea of Intel perverting the market with this is just horrifying.
a b å Intel
a c 84 à CPUs
April 10, 2013 12:16:38 AM

i got a good idea about -R cpus' prices, those will be in a totally different price range from richland and the apus. amd will have a good chance to undercut intel with kaveri later this year.
most of these are gonna go into n.u.c. (i often wonder if they picked up the name while looking up castration >_>) and other sff pcs. that much raw performance within that tdp is good and since amd cannot offer that, intel will price them very high, ironically isolating potential customers of gt3 or even a core i3+gt3 cpu.

idf round up.

Intel shows off Rack Scale Architecture and Rack Disaggregation plans
http://semiaccurate.com/2013/04/09/intel-shows-off-rack...
Intel talks about Briarwood, Avoton, Rangley, and Centerton Atoms
http://semiaccurate.com/2013/04/09/intel-talks-about-br...
Intel talks up three new Xeon families at IDF
http://semiaccurate.com/2013/04/09/intel-talks-up-three...
a b à CPUs
April 10, 2013 3:09:21 AM

Looking at the nature of it, a 4770R is a 4770, with it comes the far more silicon complex GT3e and aggressive boost frequencies, the 65w TPD clearly shows this is a locked chip though but we knew that as BGA will have no market for aftermarket cooling solutions or expansion cards so this is going to be a very expensive HTPC/SFF system. The only thing that is really impressive is intels thermals and that the iGPU is basically clocked more than 50% higher than AMD can clock its iGPU, but ultimately if you clock GT3e to 844mhz like Richland you will probably lose a terrible amount of performance from 1300+mhz, this will all be a factor when reviews come out.
April 10, 2013 7:15:50 AM

Different process, different arch.
If you take a 7xxx series AMD chip and use 22nm finfet, a redesign is needed, and higher clocks would be one way you might see this change.
a b à CPUs
April 10, 2013 11:58:46 PM

Thats nothing new, if you had a AMD APU you would know faster SPD = More bandwidth = MOAAAAR FPS.
April 11, 2013 8:03:42 AM

But the costs keep climbing just to do what a APU will do, with slightly to better cpu capability for intended uses for the majority who will buy this and use all of its features, which slims it down market wise
a b à CPUs
April 11, 2013 8:22:22 AM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
But the costs keep climbing just to do what a APU will do, with slightly to better cpu capability for intended uses for the majority who will buy this and use all of its features, which slims it down market wise


Well yeah, Intel do it on a cost don't matter basis, we know at the similar level Intel cannot match the APU so they have sacrifice x86 power to throw into the iGPU to try bring parity, if thats all GT3 is then its a monolithic failure but one Intel needs to pull through. They simply cannot be caught out of the integrated race. I just find this BGA solution really lame, thats just to try compete against a AMD SFF integrated solution thats going to make absolutely no sense.

If anyone but Asrock start to support AMD FM2 ITX platforms, it could be complete ownage of that segment. It is funny how the part Chris dismissed as having no place in DT computing is actually a part Intel cannot with all their muscle and money even compete with, scaling up to the top end of Intel CPU's. The APU came alive this year when its flexibility was shown, sure Intel have the x86 but they cannot create a part that can cost for cost compete with the APU for overal experience and this is not a swing, this is actually testiment to AMD here and Intel with all this has shown just how serious a threat they consider it.



April 11, 2013 8:35:56 AM

AMD will be doing more BGA as well, and gain its benefits.

I think going APU or Intels solution will change peoples minds.
Having a so so process, a brand new form while going thru major transitions wasnt thought out Im sure, but not only APUs are here to stay, the very fact Intrel is using so much of their die space its made them look really square ;) 
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