Would you say amd cpus might be more optimized for gaming in the future?

[CheesyHotDogPuff]

Considering Amd apus are going to be used in the ps4 and most likely in the xbox 720/infinity, do you think since games would be getting optimized for amd cpus and gpus they would work better in pc gaming? Just some speculation, folks.

 

[ohyouknow]

Yes

 

[juanrga]

Considering Amd apus are going to be used in the ps4 and most likely in the xbox 720/infinity, do you think since games would be getting optimized for amd cpus and gpus they would work better in pc gaming? Just some speculation, folks.

Yes. Sony is selling PS4 development kits based in an eight-core AMD FX chip. Moreover, AMD has announced that a version of the PS4 APU will be available on the PC market.

 

[juanrga]

Considering Amd apus are going to be used in the ps4 and most likely in the xbox 720/infinity, do you think since games would be getting optimized for amd cpus and gpus they would work better in pc gaming? Just some speculation, folks.

Yes. Sony is selling PS4 development kits based in an eight-core AMD FX chip. Moreover, AMD has announced that a version of the PS4 APU will be available on the PC market.

that is incorrect, the PS4 chip is not an FX chip. The PS4 chip will be based on AMD's bobcat line which itself is a low power chip (TDP of around 18w) designed for the portable market (netbooks and tablets)

Who said you that the PS4 is using a FX chip?

As said above, the PS4 console will be using an APU, but Sony is selling PS4 development kits based in an eight-core FX chip. Moreover, the PS4 APU is not based in the "bobcat line", as you claim, but in its successor: Jaguar.

 

[juanrga]

i see no mention of the FX series in any PS4 kit article and while they may use a trinity chip based on piledriver cores, it is hardly a FX chip.

Below are the details, to quote: "Developers are currently taking receipt of a new PlayStation 4 dev kit, VG247 has been told today, with a final version slated to appear in January. Yes, it'll have Blu-ray. No, it isn't being made in Japan.

Multiple sources have confirmed to VG247 today that a new version of the Orbis kit is now shipping to developers, and that it's housed in a normal PC case.

There are to be four versions of the dev kit, we were told. A previous version was essentially just a graphics card. The version shipping now is a "modified PC," and the third version, appearing in January, will be close to final spec. A final version will be delivered to developers "next summer".

Some US developers attended a "disclosure meeting" at Sony's offices this week, with a further meeting to take place in the coming weeks. The purpose of the meeting is for Sony to tell studios what the machine is designed to do, to detail hardware and to show a set of presentations.

Our source told us that Sony is only calling the machine Orbis, and is not using the words "PlayStation 4″ in these meetings at all.

Orbis, we were told today, is based on the AMD's A10 APU series. An APU (Accelerated Processing Unit) is a combined CPU and GPU.

Read more: http://www.ps3news.com/playstation-3-psn-news/rumor-playstation-4-ps4-developer-kits-shipping-amd-a10-based/#ixzz2PhEMrd3D

http://www.ps3news.com/playstation-3-psn-news/rumor-playstation-4-ps4-developer-kits-shipping-amd-a10-based/

An old rumour about non-final specs? I am giving you the published details of the development kit #DVKT-KS000K. By third time: Sony PS4 development kit is based in an eight-core FX chip.

http://hardware-review24.com/news/specifications_of_sony_playstation_4_development_kit_get_published/2013-01-25-1335

And Microsoft XboX development kit is also based in an eight-core FX chip.

 

[utroz]

Who said you that the PS4 is using a FX chip?

As said above, the PS4 console will be using an APU, but Sony is selling PS4 development kits based in an eight-core FX chip. Moreover, the PS4 APU is not based in the "bobcat line", as you claim, but in its successor: Jaguar.

i see no mention of the FX series in any PS4 kit article and while they may use a trinity chip based on piledriver cores, it is hardly a FX chip.

Below are the details, to quote: "Developers are currently taking receipt of a new PlayStation 4 dev kit, VG247 has been told today, with a final version slated to appear in January. Yes, it'll have Blu-ray. No, it isn't being made in Japan.

Multiple sources have confirmed to VG247 today that a new version of the Orbis kit is now shipping to developers, and that it's housed in a normal PC case.

There are to be four versions of the dev kit, we were told. A previous version was essentially just a graphics card. The version shipping now is a "modified PC," and the third version, appearing in January, will be close to final spec. A final version will be delivered to developers "next summer".

Some US developers attended a "disclosure meeting" at Sony's offices this week, with a further meeting to take place in the coming weeks. The purpose of the meeting is for Sony to tell studios what the machine is designed to do, to detail hardware and to show a set of presentations.

Our source told us that Sony is only calling the machine Orbis, and is not using the words "PlayStation 4″ in these meetings at all.

Orbis, we were told today, is based on the AMD's A10 APU series. An APU (Accelerated Processing Unit) is a combined CPU and GPU.

Read more: http://www.ps3news.com/playstation-3-psn-news/rumor-playstation-4-ps4-developer-kits-shipping-amd-a10-based/#ixzz2PhEMrd3D

http://www.ps3news.com/playstation-3-psn-news/rumor-playstation-4-ps4-developer-kits-shipping-amd-a10-based/

Dev kit specs: http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/01/23/playstation-4-dev-kit-specs-leak-controller-and-multiple-user-accounts-detailed
PS4 specs https://secure.webassets.scea.com/pscomauth/groups/public/documents/webasset/feb21/pdf/playstation4_specification.pdf
Ok hear goes the ps4 DEV kits had a 8 core FX cpu so they could optimize the code for an amd 8 thread cpu while waiting for the Apu's to get manufactured. The real apu that will be in actual ps4 is an 8 core jaguar core with a 1.84TF GCN gpu with HSA. It is not a trinity cpu at all.. That PDF is on sonys site so it is as official as it gets..

 

[fearless1333]

Absolutely, and maybe some programs will finally have better multithreaded support...

 

[utroz]

Absolutely, and maybe some programs will finally have better multithreaded support...

I really think that this is what will finally get programmers off there back sides and actually doing highly threaded games, because they are going to have to!! The 8 core cpu is't a 3.5 to 4.4ghz screamer it is probably 1.8 to 2.4ghz so in order to make things run right the won't have any way around writing proper highly threaded code that when is ported to PC (well that what they use to dev the games anyways so i dunno if porting is quite the right word) will still be highly threaded. We all will win in the end on this one...

 

[jaguarskx]

Console games may run better on PCs with AMD CPUs. However, that assumes:

1. The PC has a Jaguar CPU not a Piledriver or Steamroller CPU (FX series).
2. Nearly identical coding is used for the PS4 and Windows 7 / 8.
3. AMD can optimize the coding for all Radeon HD graphic cards, not just the one specific to the PS4.

 

[juanrga]

Console games may run better on PCs with AMD CPUs. However, that assumes:

1. The PC has a Jaguar CPU not a Piledriver or Steamroller CPU (FX series).
2. Nearly identical coding is used for the PS4 and Windows 7 / 8.
3. AMD can optimize the coding for all Radeon HD graphic cards, not just the one specific to the PS4.

1. No, because we are not talking about optimization up to the architectural level but only of optimization for AMD eight-core chips (Bulldozer, Piledriver, Jaguar...).

2. No, because we are not talking about optimization at bare metal level, which is impossible in a Windows environment.

3. No, because when ported to PC the graphics part of the game will be coded for a range of Radeon cards above a certain minimum level. Games will be not ported only for PCs with a specific card model. In fact, today you can already find recent PC games optimized for AMD and they are not optimized for one specific card.


The PS4 development kits are built over an eight-core FX chip from AMD, an AMD Radeon graphics card, and 8 GB DDR3 RAM + 2.5 GB GDDR5.

It seems more than evident that a new generation of games will be optimized for AMD technology. Why do you believe that both Intel and Nvidia are working hard to attract game developers at GDC? Intel is saying to game developers that they would choose HD graphics (yes I did laugh as well) for their future games; whereas Nvidia is saying to game developers that would chose their ultra-expensive Titan card because is faster than PS4/Xbox...

 

[twelve25]

I think it is the other way around. Developers needs to make games that are optimized for many weaker cores. Currently, games don't even try to use more than 4 cores.

 

[jaguarskx]

Console games may run better on PCs with AMD CPUs. However, that assumes:

1. The PC has a Jaguar CPU not a Piledriver or Steamroller CPU (FX series).
2. Nearly identical coding is used for the PS4 and Windows 7 / 8.
3. AMD can optimize the coding for all Radeon HD graphic cards, not just the one specific to the PS4.

1. No, because we are not talking about optimization up to the architectural level but only of optimization for AMD eight-core chips (Bulldozer, Piledriver, Jaguar...).

2. No, because we are not talking about optimization at bare metal level, which is impossible in a Windows environment.

3. No, because when ported to PC the graphics part of the game will be coded for a range of Radeon cards above a certain minimum level. Games will be not ported only for PCs with a specific card model. In fact, today you can already find recent PC games optimized for AMD and they are not optimized for one specific card.

In other words.... No. My point exactly.

Can console games eventually be designed to optimally use probably. How likely will that be? Unknown.

 

[juanrga]

Console games may run better on PCs with AMD CPUs. However, that assumes:

1. The PC has a Jaguar CPU not a Piledriver or Steamroller CPU (FX series).
2. Nearly identical coding is used for the PS4 and Windows 7 / 8.
3. AMD can optimize the coding for all Radeon HD graphic cards, not just the one specific to the PS4.

1. No, because we are not talking about optimization up to the architectural level but only of optimization for AMD eight-core chips (Bulldozer, Piledriver, Jaguar...).

2. No, because we are not talking about optimization at bare metal level, which is impossible in a Windows environment.

3. No, because when ported to PC the graphics part of the game will be coded for a range of Radeon cards above a certain minimum level. Games will be not ported only for PCs with a specific card model. In fact, today you can already find recent PC games optimized for AMD and they are not optimized for one specific card.

In other words.... No. My point exactly.

No The "console games may run better on PCs with AMD CPUs" does not assume your points 1, 2, and 3.

The main handicap for current AMD FX chips on gaming is that many current games use two to four-threads, which translates to ignoring about a 25-50% of eight-core AMD FX chips. With next generation of consoles being eight-core designs you will see PC games optimized for AMD chips.

 

[utroz]

jaguar, no point in debating with AMF fan boys. This has been their same argument since the very first phenom. they think an eight core jaguar CPU @ 1.6ghz is a FX core and PC game designers will solely design games for CPUs with 25% PC market share

1. It is AMD not AMF.
2. If a game is coded for 8 threads it is going to help all 8 threaded or cored cpu's AMD and Intel.
3. They are going to start using new instruction sets (FMA3 XOP AVX) because the consoles have a cpu that has it.
4. They are going to optimize games for GCN graphics.
5. The reason they will do so is because the 2 Big console makers, Sony and Microsoft's new generation consoles have all AMD from CPU to GPU and they will want to get all the performance out of the hardware they can and we know that they just make dumb ports to PC so the optimizations will carry through to the PC. Also I am hoping for actual AMD64 bit games not this 32bit crap that can't use over 2GB of ram...

 

[RobCrezz]

Optimized for AMD? No. Optimized for lots of cores? Yes. IMO.

Both the PS3 and xbox 360 have AMD/ATI GPUs, but I wouldnt say console ports were optimized for AMD currently.

 

[juanrga]

Both the PS3 and xbox 360 have AMD/ATI GPUs, but I wouldnt say console ports were optimized for AMD currently.

Except that the PS3 used a GPU from Nvidia and that both PS3 and Xbox did not use X86_64 technology but a non-compatible IBM design which blocked efficient porting to PC.

 

[RobCrezz]

Both the PS3 and xbox 360 have AMD/ATI GPUs, but I wouldnt say console ports were optimized for AMD currently.

Except that the PS3 used a GPU from Nvidia and that both PS3 and Xbox did not use X86_64 technology but a non-compatible IBM design which blocked efficient porting to PC.

Ah yes you are correct regarding the PS3 GPU.

I still see no evidence to support console ports being optimized for AMD, just speculation..

 

[juanrga]

5. The reason they will do so is because the 2 Big console makers, Sony and Microsoft's new generation consoles have all AMD from CPU to GPU and they will want to get all the performance out of the hardware they can and we know that they just make dumb ports to PC so the optimizations will carry through to the PC. Also I am hoping for actual AMD64 bit games not this 32bit crap that can't use over 2GB of ram...

Precisely this is the point made by Mark Rein from Epic Games. They want to break the old 2GB limit in the new generation of games, thanks to the AMD hardware on the new consoles.

 

[Davice Cooper]

will any of this really matter other then benchmark bragging rights for fan boys since the PS4/xbox cpus are really glorified tablet CPUS? nope

for the GPU

does Nvidia still hold over 50% market share and deliver suit cases of money to developers so their games ca run better on nvidia architecture? yes
I found many infomation about GPU on binarydb

 

[jaguarskx]

jaguar, no point in debating with AMF fan boys.

1. It is AMD not AMF.

it was a typo so get over yourself as 99% of people would see it that way.

Awwww man, that was a typo?

I was hoping the AMF would get into fabricating CPUs so that... you know... they can put CPUs into bowling balls that way you can program the bowling ball to make strikes no matter how bad you throw the ball.

 

[juanrga]

Xbox 360 and nintendo weii have AMD parts in them, i still see most games trading blows between Nvidia & AMD for graphic dominance.

But you omit that the old consoles were not PC-compatible albeit they used some hardware chips from PC makers. The new consoles are PC-compatible.

Will games start to fully utilize four cores with the launch of the new consoles? probably, but I'm sure anyone with a modern Intel/AMD quad will have no issue running them.

Why would a game developer stop at four cores when has eight available? Why do you believe PS4 and next Xbox development kits are based in eight-core FX chip?

 

[8350rocks]

Really? The internal metrics where I work show greater than 55% of PC Gamers are using quad cores or more...and according to Tom's Hardware, STEAM had only 46.49% of users with dual core CPUs 2 years ago...at that time quad cores were at 45.02%, and with the quad core proliferation going on right now, I highly doubt the number of dual cores has risen. In fact, we anticipate the number of quad core gaming PCs to soar into the 65-70% range by mid 2014.

Here's the Tom's article from 2011 with STEAM survey results showing you clearly mis-stated your facts about dual core CPUs:

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/quad-core-dual-core-cpu-intel-amd,14266.html

Games are being designed for 4+ cores now...and some of them are designed to run 6-8 threads simultaneously because the software is finally catching up to the hardware.

 

[jaguarskx]

I'll monitor this thread for another day or two.

If there's not going to be any new posts that can progress beyond it's current state, then it will be locked.

What constitutes progress? Either empirical or substantive evidence which supports either point of view.

 

[8350rocks]

Then the % of laptops using STEAM has significantly increased in 2 years...because that's where the dual cores are coming from.

We are showing, based on metrics from OnLive, Gamespy, and other services that the desktop market is dominated by quad cores...and will continue to be dominated by quad cores in an increasing margin.

I cannot show the metrics we use, the information is not available to everyone...so you can quote STEAM, but the fact remains...dual core CPUs are not the future...and "gaming" laptops are a waste of money. No Core i3 will be sufficient in 12-18 months.

 

[utroz]

jaguar, no point in debating with AMF fan boys. This has been their same argument since the very first phenom. they think an eight core jaguar CPU @ 1.6ghz is a FX core and PC game designers will solely design games for CPUs with 25% PC market share

1. It is AMD not AMF.
2. If a game is coded for 8 threads it is going to help all 8 threaded or cored cpu's AMD and Intel.
3. They are going to start using new instruction sets (FMA3 XOP AVX) because the consoles have a cpu that has it.
4. They are going to optimize games for GCN graphics.
5. The reason they will do so is because the 2 Big console makers, Sony and Microsoft's new generation consoles have all AMD from CPU to GPU and they will want to get all the performance out of the hardware they can and we know that they just make dumb ports to PC so the optimizations will carry through to the PC. Also I am hoping for actual AMD64 bit games not this 32bit crap that can't use over 2GB of ram...

it was a typo so get over yourself as 99% of people would see it that way. you are obviously a passionate fan boy with no real world business experience or sense. PC games will run better on AMD, Nvidia, or Intel depending on two things 1) the amount of money given to the developer by said company so they can have that lovely intro in the start of the game 2) the gaming PC market share of said company.

Xbox 360 and nintendo weii have AMD parts in them, i still see most games trading blows between Nvidia & AMD for graphic dominance. Will games start to fully utilize four cores with the launch of the new consoles? probably, but I'm sure anyone with a modern Intel/AMD quad will have no issue running them.

Sorry about the it's AMD not AMF thing. I have had people call AMD AMF before(Advance Micro F*up's) because of the Bulldozer fiasco and I thought you were referring to that and didn't realize it was just a plan old typo. I am not some blind fan boy I have been using both Intel and AMD since my Intel 480SX33 overclocked to a wopping 40Mhz and have had plenty of systems over the years with from both companys, heck I have even have Via cpu's, transmedia cpus, even the lowly cyrix at one point. I fix computers for a living as well so I have a bit of experience. I just want the games to actually use all the power that is available to them on cpu's that have higher thread counts like the 3770k, 3930K or the FX8350. I remember when all programs outside of server side stuff was single threaded and programming is taking long time to catch up to the hardware available even from 2005 and use dual threaded code. It just make sense that if the programmers have to make the games highly threaded on the 2 big consoles that it won't hurt gamers on the PC side. This is because they typically (not always) only have one code base that they port to whatever gaming systems they want (PC, PS3, Xbox 360, Wii, and soon PS4 and the Next Xbox) and then slightly tweak it for performance and add a few options here there. It is true that I don't see games being very limited by the decent quad cores that are currently available for while (hard telling just how long my thinking is 1-3 years). On the GPU side of things it is basically the same thing I think some of the optimizations from the PS4 and NextXbox will carry over. Just because a GPU is compatible with a game is not the same as being optimized for a game. Of course there will still be Nvidia optimized games out there because they will pay developers to do the optimizing for their GPU's.