Full system LCS setup viability

Buzz247

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Mar 18, 2013
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Asus p8z77-v LE plus (~35w NB)
i3770k (~135w)
eVGA 670GTX FTW+ superclock (1.0Ghz) 4Gb x2 (~275wx2)
HAF-X case
Corsair GS800w PSU
Total watt ~720w
RX360 (TDP~625w@1800rpm)
EX140 (TDP~250@1650RPM)
TDP ~875

Looking at starting LCS with Raystorm RX360 Kit with x20 750 pump. Res mounted in 5.25 bays. Top mount RX360 (using stock 120x3 shrouded and leaving 125cfm 200mmx2 in place, add Rear mount EX140 push/pull full shroud. Both GPU with full block mounting (EKFCW680 and backplate) and NB block added in. IF I have done my TDP calcs correctly, I believe this will support stock and OC as well, though option to add a 3rd rad (EX120) still possible. The x20 750 pump should suffice for flow and head with amount of tubing and distance. I may swap out for a D5 variant later though.

I specifically chose a low FPI kit for balance of cooling and noise. Fan controllers will be in place and used based on temp of system and usage

Thoughts on viability and effectiveness?
 
Just remember that you wont be running your fans at full speed, because it will be pretty loud. I have 6 of the XSPC Xinrullian 1650 fans and they start to become noticeable at ~70% speed (Manual fan controller, cant give exact values). A fan running at 1800RPM is going to be loud no matter what. Realistically, you will be running them slower and therefore the rad dissipates less heat.

Im guessing that RX360 is going in the top of the case.
You will run into mobo clearance issues, with my slim rad with push/pull fans it obstructs the CPU 4pin power cable, with a thick rad it would be worse unless you mod the case to offset the rad away from the mobo (which has been done before). I suggest you get a slim rad for the top and mount the RX360... elsewhere (will explain).
Also, with any triple rad in the HAF-X, you are going to lose drive bays. A thick rad with a push fan, you can expect to lose the top two.

Do you have any plans on how to drain the loop once your done? You will want to build in that capability right from the start, otherwise it will be a pain when you have to do it.

I advise for a loop of this size, go with the D5 pump, especially since you already intend to get one later.

What I would do with the RX360 is mount it off the back of the case using the mounting kit that's included in the Raystorm kits.
(My personal rig, with an RS360 externally mounted)
IMG_20130216_120524_zps4608b88f.jpg

Then get a slim 360mm rad like an EX360 and mount that internally. That is enough rad space to cover what you want and allow for slow running fans.

If you'd like to see my build log, its in my sig.
 

Buzz247

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Mar 18, 2013
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TY for some excellent points! It is being mounted top and ya, expected to lose top 2 bays, but that's where an Aerocool2100 double 5.25 fan controller is going, so no biggie there. Res below that, removing sata docks and converting back to 5.25 for BD burner. Was hoping to maintain total internal build honestly, which is why the second EX140 rad comes into play where exhaust 140 is in the rear - otherwise would have gone with my initial plan of 9 120fan rad and stand :)

Prob best to go D5 right away, you're right. completely ignored drain solution! *facepalm* Ty for your build log so I don't make the same mistakes :) and of course for a good chuckle - glad it was you and not me good sir lol.

This is my first build of this type. Previous LCS build was a passive/silent using a Zalman Reserator -ya know... the huge massive finned metal tube that held 2 gallons of water? that in a Thermaltake Xaser III case with 12 120mm fans producing 650CFm at peak and slightly positive case air pressure. Had CPU, GPU, and NB all waterblocked, and later added a HD block. Kept DDR on direct fan cooling. This was back in 1.4Ghz days when a passive res system worked well. Now, heat production of multiple components on OC is far too high for me to justify
 


I'm going to put a big thumbs down on the XSPC pump sealed inside the reservoir, avoid that like the plague.

For XSPC that was a really bad design idea, but you won't discover the bad until your pump dies!

When the pump fails it has to be cut out of the reservoir, (Notice I said when, not if!), you cannot reuse the pump or reservoir, and that puts you at XSPC RMA mercy, if they even honor it.

You're much better off with an independent pump and reservoir setup even if you have to forgo a kit.

This is my stand alone pump recommendation and one of the best prices for it out there too!

I have a dead XSPC Pump/Res sitting on my shelf right now as a reminder of what not to do.

You cannot even reuse the reservoir with the pump inside of it without boring an additional outlet and tapping new G1/4 threads, then the volume of the res is compromised.

So it becomes a useless acrylic cube.

Water cooling reality is Pumps fail, so to be fully prepared you really need a spare pump on hand, and you do not need the pump inside a reservoir.

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying you need to buy the spare pump from the very beginning just put it in your plans for later.

You know I am in this thread at your request, and manofchalk has given some good input, so where do we go from here?

 

Buzz247

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Mar 18, 2013
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You guys have defintely brought a few oversights to light. TYVM! I had been pondering that, but being out of active cooling for so long wasn't sure on the reliability of pump types. Hence why I came here :) How do you feel about DDC? Leaning toward a full custom solution now. But geekery has invaded. The MCP pump you linked I KNOW is my best bet, but LOL I'm a sucker for clean look too.

So thinking something like this for a res http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=59_318_658&products_id=33254

With these as pumps http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=59_201&products_id=36120
well, possibly double.. not sure on that.

Still curious if the thick 360 push and 140 push/pull will be sufficient or if i need to add the 120 push/pull, or go a completely different route. For tube routing and cooling order thoughts are: res/pump(s)/ NB/120/GPU/GPU/140/CPU/360/res
 

Buzz247

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Mar 18, 2013
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OC - ABSOLUTELY! Goal is full LCS case, neat n clean install with as much clear of open case area as possible. Hardware specs to be cooled listed at top. CPU OC to 4.3Ghz, possibly more, GPUs are already factory OC at 1.0 and prob push to 1.2. NB at least if not SB water jacketed too. Looking for middle ground of cooling and noise. Fan controllers will be used

Not sure what info you have on GPUs, but from what I can tell, the card I chose even though it is a 670, actually uses a 680 reference full jacket - Is there a way to verify?
 
Wouldn't go so far to say the X20 750's are that bad Ryan, they are a decent little pump/res that fulfills its purpose, which is making it easy to custom water-cool and they support the kit they are bundled with adequately. The V4 version is fairly good apparently.
Though the vibrations... This may be applicable to you Buzz, my X20 750 vibrates in the drive bays and lets off this low drone/hum. Don't know if its my unit or bay pumps in general, but when I upgrade im not getting a bay pump.
Though of all the bay pumps to choose, you picked a good one in that Alphacool Repack. That fill port on the front is genius. What isn't is that smart is the pumps work in parallel, which forces you to run dual loops unless you pay extra for a Y adapter to join the pumps up.

I think the dual 360mm option is what you should go for, You have ~700W to cool and a 360mm + 140mm I think is just too little to deal with it acceptably. Also where did the 120mm rad come from, there aren't any more fan mounts to use unless you remove the drive bays?

Go to CoolingConfigurator.com and punch in your card. If its in the database, it will tell you if the card uses a reference design PCB (hopefully which one in this case) and any compatible (EK only, since its run by them) water-blocks.
If it doesnt come up in there, go to Google Images and look up your card plus PCB. Then bring up a reference 670 and 680 PCB and just visually compare them.
Or if you really want to be sure, email EVGA and the water-block manufacturer and ask if they are compatible.
 
Since you are running 2 670GTX and intend full coverage water blocks for them, I suggest 2 independent loops one for CPU and one for the GPUs, if you were only running a single GPU and CPU then one loop would be fine, but the 2nd GPU changes the heat ratio enough to put a top limit on your CPU overclock.

I'm running 2 independent loops cooling 2 580GTX on a mini RadBox with a 360 and 240 in series, with load temperatures at 40c vs stock air at 80c.

My CPU loop however is pretty much whatever I need it to do because it has no radiators, it is TEC/Peltier cooled.

@manofchalk
Wouldn't go so far to say the X20 750's are that bad Ryan

Mine was working great, right up until the time it died!

The way the reservoir is designed there is no fixing it yourself, you cannot have an XSPC pump on hand to replace it with, you would have to have another XSPC Pump/Res on hand.

Sometimes the cheaper option is not always the best!
 
You could argue the X20 750 pump/res (as a whole) is cheaper than a D5 or DDC pump, so it in fact is better if it fails since its cheaper to replace.

But anyway, wouldn't recommend one for this loop anyway. Their good for CPU only loops, which is their intended purpose in the Raystorm kits. Add a GPU block or two, and I say you need a better pump.
 


You've only been running yours for 6 months, no problems for you yet!

Presently this XSPC dead pump/res sitting on my shelf is a touchy subject with me!

So as far as the XSPC pump/res with the pump sealed inside the reservoir, we'll just have to agree to disagree because there is no way in hell, I'll ever buy another one!

Nor will I recommend one to anyone else, if they cannot afford what they really need to water cool and meet their goals, then maybe they don't need to be water cooling in the first place.



 
To the OP:

XSPC does have some kits I would recommend with a D5 pump mounted to the rear of the reservoir, that way if the pump motor dies you just swap out a new one and you're back in business, of course these kits are more expensive but you get what you pay for.

http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...oduct_info&cPath=59_202_972&products_id=34960

http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...oduct_info&cPath=59_202_972&products_id=33590

http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...oduct_info&cPath=59_202_972&products_id=33549

http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...oduct_info&cPath=59_202_972&products_id=36040

I would recommend these XSPC Pump/Res solutions any day over the pump sealed inside the acrylic reservoir.

I strongly advise you to think long and hard when it comes to water cooling there is a big difference between quality and quantity.

Too many new to water cooling are tempted by those cheaper kit offers thinking it's a cure all solution, or a cheap way to get my foot in the water cooling door, some will even settle for a CLC cooling solution.

Unfortunately if you spend the money on the kit but all along you had high overclocking goals your initial investment may end up being a parted out waste of money.

Parted out meaning some of the parts are actually good enough to use later, when you discover the kit is falling way short of your overclocking goals.

The lesson learned the hard way, my advice is to keep the user from learning that same lesson as I did, to try and avoid the same obvious mistakes.
 


Full coverage graphics cards are not only cooling the GPU die, but the voltage regulators and memory chips as well, and they bring serious heat to the table by themselves and especially when they are overclocked.

When more than one are together in 2 way or 3 way SLI you have some serious heat to dissipate through the radiators.

The overclocked Ivy Bridge CPU is hot, so it needs as much cooling as it can get, that's why I have recommended two independent cooling loops to do the job, independent meaning each loop has it's own reservoir.

Keep in mind even the best radiator loop water cooling is still subject to ambient room temperature, and the GPUs dump a constant heat to the mix, and that seriously increases during gaming when your overclocked CPU needs to be as cool as possible.

Below is just a suggestion, if you're after a 680/670 water block, which would allow a later upgrade to a 680, then get what you want, because the bad thing about investing in a full coverage water block is it will not be upgradeable to another GPU in the future.

http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...t_info&cPath=59_971_240_578&products_id=34867

 

Buzz247

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Mar 18, 2013
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Ok now that the coffee has kicked in, able to process this mass amount of info!

The cards I have settled on are 670s, but use a 680PCB reference, so I'm actually somewhat futureproofed in that way. 2 670 4Gb that are OC are a way better performance bankg for the buck than 680... atm due to design.

Ryan, I had infact, after the first mention of sealed unit failure, began to look at the D5 variant versions of the raystorm kit actually. The began to contemplate the heat issue, and started leaning toward dual loop, hence the original alphacool repack bay with he dual pump head I listed earlier. But yes, being a single res, kinda defeats purpose. So unless I go with separate res, The only other option is a dual pump split res that would support the dual loop.

Now... where to mount these beasts. Chalk, you asked about where the extra 120mm came from. The sliding cover on the bottom, iff modded out, serves purpose in providing clean look of wiring, but the wiring can route around a 120 installed on the bottom :) Incidentally, with a small amount of modding to the 3.5 internal cage, you could fit a 240 push pull down there, only lose 2-3bays leaving 2 intact - but it's exhaust would be feeding warmed air to the psu intake 6 inches away

I have a couple options at this point given this case (now wishing i went with the cube style I originally intended). Top mount 360, a front mount 200 and remove HDD bays, using converted 5.25 bays for storage, or rear mounting a 360/480. Chalk on your rear mount you did, how did you get the clearance for your plugins on the slots and I/O?

Other option full external ground stand - not liking that. Heck I really wanted to do this as a double take stealth case, looks stock at first but then BOOM! not! obviously... not going that direction it seems. The modder in me is tempted to take the case panel on the right side and mod it out for a full on wall 'o rad.

So sad, Here I thought this case offered more than enough room to do what I would need to internally, and now... no where close LMAO

At this point, if I am going to make this a rad beast, time to go all out and make it a true beast. Not wanting a cobbled Frankenstein mess. so suggestions on rad enhancements, case modding, etc to really make this a work of art that is functional?

Cpu on top mount 360, GPus on rear mount 360/480 - Use modding metal to form a housing around it to make it cleaner - thinking out loud here

Or.... stand offs to mount to mobo tray, mod out side panel to fit around it and again, modding metal sheets to create a clean look. still allows for panel removal without rad movement, could easily mount a 9x120 this way....

Or remove and mod top of case, creating room for 2 200 push pulls.
 
People these days are far to fond of self contained LCS kits that don't require much effort for the user that just don't compare to a diy setup.

You are better off spending the extra cash and buy the pump, blocks, coolant, and tubing separate that is going to work.
 

Buzz247

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Mar 18, 2013
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You are so correct - which is why not a single self contained unit was ever if in possible use. Even the x20 sealed pump res, is still not nearly a self contained unit compared to something like a H100. And as you'have seen in the thread... nowhere near that type of solution - beginning and especially now lol :)
 
Ahh, I see it now. I actually used to have the stock 140mm fan down there to provide some extra intake airflow.
Flip the PSU, it will draw in in cool air from outside the case.

The XSPC mounts included in the Raystorm kits allow you to offset the rad from the mounting holes a bit (would say 1cm either direction). Iv just got it offset to the side to allow cables to be plugged in. The I/O panel is fine, the bigger issue is any display cables on the graphics cards, my HDMI cable has to do a bit of a tight bend to get out.

You could go with a rad-box solution, you seem to be handy enough to build one. Basically a box full of radiators, and you then just stick your case on top of it.
Or if your really nuts, a remote radding solution. Stick your rad-box underneath the floor boards and just cut a hole to run the tubing between it and the machine.
 

Buzz247

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Mar 18, 2013
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Earlier I saw THIS and it got me thinking about building a rad box in fact. Prob going to need to build out of alum bar with acrylic sheeting to give it support for this massive case to sit on it lol

 
You can also use an old case or pick up a cheap one, gut and use it for a RadBox, or wall or side case mount one of these bad boys.

I've almost pulled the trigger ordering one myself twice to replace my RadBox, but cannot justify replacing a perfectly good running system with the wife, so it's more of a want than a need, and unfortunately radiators don't seem to ever wear out!

However if I was approaching this from scratch it would be an already done deal!

It has a nice wall/case mount.
 
^ Oh wow, that's a pretty cool!

Now I want to do an all external build...
Thinking all the tubing runs along the edge of the desk and up the wall, external pump, reservoir and rads using that contraption.
Would be fairly expensive even by water-cooling standards, but could work amazingly aesthetically and for sheer awesome factor.
 


It totals out to more rad area than I'm presently running but one additional advantage is the 180mm cooling fans are quieter than the 120mms I'm presently running.

Unfortunately, It's just on my wish list! :)

 

Buzz247

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Mar 18, 2013
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I broke down... lol decided to go with a custom Mountain mod extended Ascension build purely for modular upgrade-ability down the road and not having to buy a new case for a long time lol Anyone wanna buy a like new HAF-X? LMAO

You guys have been a WEALTH of info and near made me want to do a monstrosity of an art deco build lol (complete with plexi housing for either a Star trek nacelle look or a side jet engine intake look) -

one last question - will be using Corsair Performance SP120 with technofront box for push, so a)is there any advantage to a technofront box on the pull side and b) for pull fans do static pressure fans build a negative pressure, or should I opt for a high CFM instead
 
A) Basically Swiftechs branded shrouds. You can get the same effect by buying cheapo fans and ripping out their motors. There shouldn't be any downside to using them other than the space they take up.
B) When it comes to radiators, static pressure is better than CFM. Pressure when it refers to case airflow is the balance between air in and out.