First Build Ever - First Comp Since 2006 - Budget Build Request

Noitidart

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Hi all I have two Sony Vaio from 2006 and I think it's about time I get a new computer because the computers are extremely slow even after deep cleaning by experts and then finally just reformatting.


The reason I want to build is because I look at dell and hp for 350 bucks and it really looks like I can make a much better and more reliable computer for that same cost.

I want to make two computers please. This is my first time making.


Build one (mine):
Usage Summary: Outlook. Video playing and editing with Camtasia. Firefox and programming in dreamwever, python, C#. Something that lasts for years and years, I've been using my current computer for almost 8 years. Lots of space I download lots of basketball games which arel ike 1-5 gigs each.
Would like to have multi boot, one for XP and one for Win7.
Detail on components needed: 3 displays (One HDMI input/output and two DVI or VGA my monitors are VGA but I can adapter for 5 bucks)
Bonus: I have Sony SRS-A3 speakers because I listen to all my music on my computer. In future I hope to connect my computer to my speakers in the house. So if a sound card makes a difference in sound quality I would like this please.
Cost Range: 400$

Build two (brother):
Usage Summary: Outlook, Internet Browsing, Lots of hard drive space lots of family images uploaded and stored from camera via USB. This computer has also been in use for about 8 years, I need something that is reliable to last another 10 years. Something that lasts for years and years, I've been using my current computer for almost 8 years.
Cost Range: Real Budget, 300$.


Would like to get Intel processor and would like moterhboard to take advantage of all Intel features of the chip as possible. (IE: Smart Response Technology, Smart Connect Technology, Rapid Start Technology, Turbo Boost Technology 2.0) Intel processor also has build in HD graphics 4000 I heard so this saves me from wasting money on a gfx card.
Would like both computers to be silent as they are in room where we sleep. But I really want to keep everything cool, no overheating, so I dont mind multiple fans.

Also operating system is not included in budget please I have those already.

ps: I have microcenter nearby.
 

assasin32

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Build #2, you don't specify how much HD space but 2tb will be a lot for family photos. And there are 2 of them to put in raid 1 in case of HD failure, though I still reccomend some type of offsite backup. Just buy some sata cables, no mention of OS so it's not included.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Pentium G2120 3.1GHz Dual-Core Processor ($77.98 @ Outlet PC)
Motherboard: MSI B75MA-E33 Micro ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($56.98 @ Outlet PC)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($29.83 @ NCIX US)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($84.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($84.99 @ Amazon)
Case: MSI TC- (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($19.99 @ Microcenter)
Power Supply: Corsair CX 430W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($29.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS124-04 DVD/CD Writer ($14.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $399.74
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-04-15 00:13 EDT-0400)
 

Noitidart

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Thank you assasin32 for posting so fast!! I'll look into that I actually edited the post above to say 400 for first build and 300 for second build. I'm really tight on resources :(


Also I'm going to edit to add I have microcenter near me I was searching some topics and lots of people were asking that which influenced the price. I hear theres like a deal for processor + mobo.
 

assasin32

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Build #1
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: AMD A10-5800K 3.8GHz Quad-Core Processor ($99.99 @ Microcenter)
Motherboard: MSI FM2-A85XMA-E35 Micro ATX FM2 Motherboard ($69.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Patriot Gamer 2 Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($47.98 @ NCIX US)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($84.99 @ Amazon)
Case: MSI TC- (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($19.99 @ Microcenter)
Power Supply: Corsair CX 430W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($29.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS124-04 DVD/CD Writer ($14.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $367.92
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-04-15 00:52 EDT-0400)

I believe this should be able to pull off a 3 monitor setup in eyefinity.

Build #2
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Pentium G2120 3.1GHz Dual-Core Processor ($77.98 @ Outlet PC)
Motherboard: MSI B75MA-E33 Micro ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($56.98 @ Outlet PC)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($29.83 @ NCIX US)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($84.99 @ Amazon)
Case: MSI TC- (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($19.99 @ Microcenter)
Power Supply: Corsair CX 430W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($29.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS124-04 DVD/CD Writer ($14.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $314.75
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-04-15 00:57 EDT-0400)

I just took out 1 HD just test it for errors when it comes in.

Build #2 ver2

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Pentium G2020 2.9GHz Dual-Core Processor ($49.99 @ Microcenter)
Motherboard: MSI B75MA-E33 Micro ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($56.98 @ Outlet PC)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($29.83 @ NCIX US)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($84.99 @ Amazon)
Case: MSI TC- (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($19.99 @ Microcenter)
Power Supply: Corsair CX 430W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($29.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS124-04 DVD/CD Writer ($14.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $286.76
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-04-15 01:13 EDT-0400)

 

Noitidart

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A sincere thank you assasin! I signed up on http://pcpartpicker.com/ and am trying to sort it full builds by cost is this possible?

Thanks again!
 

assasin32

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I couldn't tell you, I have never signed up for it or did anything that advance in it. Though for your brothers build I like the 2nd build I made, the extra cost for 200mhz for what he does probably won't make any difference and it keeps it in budget.

Your build was harder with trying to cram in something that can power 3 monitors so I decided on the 5800k and went from there as putting in a discrete GPU in that price would be too difficult.

Just do yourself a favor and if you change hard drives look at the speed of the hard drives (not just the rpm, but the actual read/write speed) to make sure you don't get something that is significantly slower.

And I used a case with usb 3.0, pretty much one of the cheapest ones too probably as you don't need much in the ways of cooling for these builds. In fact with your build I would add a cheap tower heatsink, let me try to find you one, as it sounds like you be stressing that CPU a lot. It's not neccary but it will help keep temps down and heat tends to kill components.
 

Noitidart

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Thanks assasin! Ill use that harddrive you picked a great one.

I was wondering though of the reliability of the harddrive, I have only a 7200rpm seagate portable hard drive as backup but heard that's not to reliable. Is the barracuda reliable for like 10 years? Reliability is a big deal to me, I might spend the extra if SSD means 100% reliability for 10 years, but I heard SSDs fail more easily than spinning drives is this true?
 

assasin32

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PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: AMD A10-5800K 3.8GHz Quad-Core Processor ($99.99 @ Microcenter)
CPU Cooler: Zalman CNPS5X Performa CPU Cooler ($17.98 @ Outlet PC)
Motherboard: MSI FM2-A85XMA-E35 Micro ATX FM2 Motherboard ($69.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Patriot Gamer 2 Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($47.98 @ NCIX US)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($84.99 @ Amazon)
Case: MSI TC- (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($19.99 @ Microcenter)
Case Fan: Kingwin CF-012LB 40.0 CFM 120mm Fan ($3.89 @ Outlet PC)
Power Supply: Corsair CX 430W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($29.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS124-04 DVD/CD Writer ($14.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $389.79
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-04-15 01:34 EDT-0400)

Reliability wise I would say there pretty much all the same for hard drives to my knowledge. If you want to up your chances a bit get ones with 1 platter, which means less capacity. But also less moving parts. I had 2 1.5tb WD green drives go bad on me, one of which after 6months. I also have a 200gb seagate that has been with me and in constant use for probably around 10years. It can happen to any brand or any drive. SSD's aren't perfect either. As well as several 60-120gb drives which are all from 2002-2004 that still run fine from various companies. It's all in the luck of the draw.

Added the CPU heatsink and extra case fan to try to keep the temps even lower for your build if you are going to be maxing out the CPU more. As heat has a tendency to decrease the lifespan of electronics I figure this may be a wise investment. And it sounds like your going to be pushing this thing a bit.

Oh and don't bother with a sound card, the one on the mobo will be more than enough for those speakers. You won't notice any difference, they only start playing a difference when you start getting into higher quality audio equipment. (Cheaper to do than you think btw, my setup only set me back $70-80, if you ever do decide to go down route go to head-fi and ask them for help. Nothing like having a lot of audiophiles help you blow your hard earned cash, but it's well worth it.)
 

Noitidart

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Sincere thanks for all your help I'm seriously taking these into consideration. I had build noted down I'll share that this week when I get the notes haha.

I can't figure out how many platters the barracuda has, do you know how much? I don't mind getting two of 1tb 1 platter if it increases reliablity. I need to learn how to setup a raid setup though.

Is there any reliable backup method for these HDDs?
 

MOMOJOJO

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I would agree with assassin, there is no way to guarantee that some hardware will work for a while, you can get extended protection which will cost more and only last for a few years, but there are ways to increase the reliability such as putting the HDD's in RAID format, I forget which format, I believe its RAID I that is the most reliable for 2 HDD's. As for the rest, just keep the system cool and hope for the best.
 

MOMOJOJO

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Oh and get a reliable power supply, because that could cause your system to go bust, the one that assasin recommended is the same one I would use.
 

Noitidart

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Much thanks momo I'll definitely learn how to do Raid, and will make sure to use that power supply.

I really need super reliabilty out of these computers because we don't get too much money to spend on computers but the computers are so important for our daily work and stuff.

Thanks!
 

assasin32

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Come to think of it toss the extra fan in your brothers build as well if you want, but a little airflow over his HD. It's not required but wouldn't hurt and might keep temps down a little more.

And between raid 1 which I mentioned earlier it be the easiest way, but it's not a true backup in my opinion. As something can still happen and take both drives with it (burglary, fire, power surge, accidently deleted, or something happen to data, etc) so for actual data backup I go with an external hard drive or usb key and keep it somewhere else.

I personally have family photos backup on 3 different computers and try to keep them all somewhat up to date between them all. My computer, living room computer, and my moms computer which is in another city when I visit. So she gets up to date family photos and I get the photos she takes at family dinners, and we both get a backup. As well as using google drive for quicker backups of photos, but I only do that due to free 100gb drive account since I got my chromebook, though you can spend $5 and get 25gb for a month and upload all family photos and than not pay for the next month and they will keep the data and you can download it. But you can't upload any more, so it's a smart thing to do on a separate "backup" account.

In terms of actual super reliability this is about as best as your going to get, high quality parts. Keep it cool, reliable power source. Thats about it. Most vendors like dell, HP, etc won't give you as high quality of parts especially in the PSU department and were trying to keep it cool, where as they do the bear minimum.
 

assasin32

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Oh yeah before I forget a quick way to find out which drives have a 1tb platter or how many platters a drive has is to type the model number and "platter" in google and generally you find a review or someone asking about it on a forum somewhere. Than you just cross reference it with the next model up say 1tb vs 2tb it should have 2x more platters if they are using 1tb platters for example.

Quickly pulled this up, it says it uses 1tb platter, a bit pricey though in comparison to 2tb HD's, which seems to be the case with all 1tb vs 2tb HD's. Put take a look on PCpartpicker for a better price. And look at the current lineup of HD's companies have and find out what size platter they have.

This is of course if you want to use a 1 platter drive. Can't blame you if you do. I purposely bought a 2 platter 640gb drive instead of a 3 or it was 4 platter 750gb drive because it was theoretically more reliable with less things to go wrong (told myself the other reason it was slightly faster to help justify it) for my main boot drive a few years ago, sadly a 320gb single platter drive wasn't large enough back than for what I wanted or else I would have gone with that.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148840

And I know I've said this several times but can't stress this enough, test the drive for errors when you get it.

Oh and if you want to ensure the machine is going to be rock solid reliable. Stress test it, easy way to test the CPU/Ram is to do a Prime 95 test, 8h should be good though I honestly go overkill when I tested my overclock and stressed it for 24h. Than stress test the integrated GPU for any artifacts for about 30min or so I would say. In general the advice for this stuff is probably stickied in the overclocking section somewhere or you can find it by a quick google search "stress testing overclock" or something along those lines should pull up the information as it mostly pertains to overclockers.

This should reveal majority of any issues you could potentially have concerning faulty hardware, cooling, etc.
 

Noitidart

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Wow thanks assasin. I got real lucky and picked the right forum to post this in. This forum really has genuine members.

Yeah I did some research and thought I'll go with the two 1tb barracuda so it's more reliable (I think 2 TB is good for me for now).

I was going to ask how to test it. Thanks so much for reading my mind! I'll definitely run the stress tests you listed. If the parts go bad will they take it back? Even though they can say "you broke it"?

Also how do I test the hard drive for errors please?
 

assasin32

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Yes they will take it back, they better if you got it while it was faulty. I never had a problem returning things from newegg and amazon. Those are the only 2 I dealt with.

Offhand most HD companies will probably have software of their own to check the hd for errors, and I believe windows has it built in as well. Just right click on the drive while in computer, under tools, error checking (win7). I have also been known to use HD Tune as well.

EDITED IN:
Actually I take that back I dealt with frys close to 10years ago while trying to build my first computer, over half the parts were faulty. They refused to do equal exchange because some of the parts were on sale and they wanted us to pay the difference. Than they refused to give us a cash refund or put it back on the credit card and wanted to give us store credit when we gave up on them and wanted our money back. They finally gave in because they were starting to piss my dad off who at the time was weighed 250 or so and stubborn (but harmless, but they didn't know that lol) and when the manager comes over who is quite a bit smaller and tries to pull the same BS but finds out it's not working and he is still mad. It's a good idea to just give him his money back.

And there were no less than 5 other people returning the same parts as me. To say the least Frys will not have my business again.

And for the record. It was more of a "No, I am taking store credit. You are GOING to give me my cash/credit (whatever we paid it in) refund." not a yelling match, you can't do that as a big guy. Trust me I know I take after him and have his build, people get scared too quick. Just wanted to point that out, don't condone the yelling matches or anything like that, it get you no where except escorted out the door quite possibly in a pair of metal bracelets behind your back too.

I also hear bestbuy is quite bad too, and overpriced.
 

Noitidart

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Hahahah! I'll keep that in mind if I go to frys. Well I'll first go on a workout regimen before I buy something from frys! :p

I'll avoid bestbuy too.

Thanks man!
 

Noitidart

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Hey all,
So I did a lot of work on pcpartpicker to make a real good computer for myself. It's at $785 but I just want to select the parts and bargain hunt for like the next 6 months. I'm hoping I can get this build for like 500$.

Can you guys please help me improve this build. Cost to performance efficient, while keeping the sound decibals low and utilizing as many of the motherboards features as possible. My current dilemma is with the motherboard.


PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($189.99 @ Microcenter)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($29.99 @ NCIX US)
Thermal Compound: Arctic Cooling MX-2 4g Thermal Paste ($4.98 @ Outlet PC)
Motherboard: Asus P8Z77-V LK ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($119.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($42.39 @ Amazon)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($42.39 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung 830 Series 128GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($112.99 @ Adorama)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($69.97 @ Outlet PC)
Case: Rosewill Line ATX Mid Tower Case ($51.95 @ TigerDirect)
Case Fan: Enermax UCTB12 42.1 CFM 120mm Fan ($10.99 @ Newegg)
Case Fan: Enermax UCTB12 42.1 CFM 120mm Fan ($10.99 @ Newegg)
Case Fan: Enermax UCTB12 42.1 CFM 120mm Fan ($10.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair CX 430W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($39.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS124-04 DVD/CD Writer ($17.98 @ Outlet PC)
Total: $755.58
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-04-17 03:45 EDT-0400)

My thought process behind the parts:

No plan to overclock anything. No plan for gfx card, esp with gpu. No plan for sound card.

Motherboard -
Supports 3 displays:I was hoping for dual DVI and no VGA but settled on this because it has DisplayPort so in future I can use the DVI + DisplayPort. It has HDMI so I can connect to my TV as well.
Supports Intel: XMP (I dont know how ill use this though), Smart Response, Smart Connect, Rapid Start
Has USB 3 and has some USB3 boosting features
Doesnt have WiFi built in, which I like.
CON: It has a bunch of gfx card features which I'll never uses, like crossfire, and sli stuff.
Plan to get the mobo + cpu from microcenter for the 180 + 40 bucks so for 220 total.

CPU -
I need 3rd gen i5 so I can use 1600 DDR3 RAM
No plan to overclock. But I dont see any favorable tradeoffs to go for the non-K i5 3570. Has GPU 4000 HD,

RAM -
Because its 1600 DDR3
Supports Intel XMP low voltage and low timing for the vengence. I looked it up on the supported memory page of the mother board user manual. My RAM on my 6 - 8 year old computer is timed at "2.00 GB Dual-Channel DDR @ 200MHz (3-3-3-8)" I was hoping to get super good timing like this but I can't find it.
Anyways 2gb sticks are better I read so I went with 4*2gb.

HDD/SSD - So boot times are faster and so I can use Intel Smart Response and RapidStart. I read the Samsung 830 is the best on all benchmarks, the Samsung 840 people aren't so certain of as it's relatively new. I hear intel is most reliable but I think Samsung 830 is just as reliable.
HDD/Barracuda - For storage. In future when need arises I'll get a 2nd one and add it in. 1 plate for reliability.

Case - Because it has a usb 3 and usb 2 ports available at front. It also has mic/audio inputs for my headset at front. And because it has option for so many fans.

Case Fans - EnerMax are super quiet at 11dB and has a real good amount of CFM. I want to replace all stock fans in case with these. These things come on sale for 4.99

CPU Cooler - I don't know if I need it, but from reading your post above I think I will. I won't overclock so I think I'll use it at the 600RPM (9dB) maybe at 1000 (16.7dB) but max I think I'll need is 1200RPM (20.6 dB)

Thermal Paste- I read that the one that comes with the cooler master hyper cpu cooler isnt that good so I got this, I read its better than the AS5 which I guess is super fancy stuff. This is also cheap at just 5 bucks.

Power supply - Because recommended in posts in this topic above

Optical drive - i was thinking of reusing my old optical drives but i read the lite-on is real good or something so i just thought i would throw it in.




So my main area I think i can improve is mother board and case. What do you guys think?
 

assasin32

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Bargain hunting over 6months is pointless, hardware goes out to date too fast. And prices are constantly fluctuating with promo's, mail in rebates, etc. The prices don't always go down gradually and sometimes at all (looking at you intel). I know had a chance to pick up a radeon 7770 shortly after they came out while they were still going for around $130, and right now they are pretty much the same price when you fine a deal on one and almost the same price right now as back than.

Only thing I would let myself bargain hunt for is the case, fans, optical drive, and PSU (though I prefer to get that at same time so I can test it works right than and there). Everything else I would buy all at once in a new build unless you had a reason to buy some of it now, like needing the additional HD space than I buy the storage drives now.

And it's unrealistic to bargain hunt properly selected $700 build down to $500 in 6months, prices just don't drop that fast unless you didn't do a good job bargain hunting from the get go.
 

assasin32

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PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-3570 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($204.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Zalman CNPS5X Performa CPU Cooler ($17.98 @ Outlet PC)
Motherboard: MSI B75MA-E33 Micro ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($56.98 @ Outlet PC)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($49.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: A-Data XPG SX900 64GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($79.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($69.97 @ Outlet PC)
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 670 2GB Video Card ($363.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Rosewill Challenger-U3 ATX Mid Tower Case ($59.99 @ Newegg)
Case Fan: Cooler Master R4-L2R-20AC-GP 69.0 CFM 120mm Fan ($5.06 @ NCIX US)
Case Fan: Cooler Master R4-L2R-20AC-GP 69.0 CFM 120mm Fan ($5.06 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: Corsair CX 500W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($49.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS124-04 DVD/CD Writer ($17.98 @ Outlet PC)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.98 @ Outlet PC)
Monitor: Asus VS247H-P 23.6" Monitor ($129.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $1201.93
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-04-17 04:21 EDT-0400)

Using this as an example.

Intel CPU's don't drop in price much even when a deal is going on.
CPU heatsink, one like this doesn't see many discounts that mean anything due to already low price.
Motherboard, budget board at most you might see another comparable motherboard of equal quality $15 less in some combo.
Ram, already cheap as it is and I doubt you see ram prices drop significantly soon.
GPU, honestly the price may drop here over time when the next gen of GPU's come out but that will take awhile.
PSU, cheap already and I don't see further price drops.
Case,case fans, can see a drop in price in the case which may save $20 and save a couple dollars with different fans.
OS, no price drops here expected
DVD burner, maby a few dollars saved if you buy one on sale, pray it has free shipping or it cost more.
Monitor, this is a good deal on it right now I don't expect to see this cheaper anytime soon.

Only real way to cut the price down more is find a good case on sale, or get lucky and find a good combo deal going on.