Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

AMD Eyefinity/HD3D vs Nvidia Surround 3D

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
Share
April 25, 2013 7:28:04 AM

So, basically I have a whopper of a tax return refund check coming in this week (remind me to deduct less taxes next year) and was looking to 'invest' it in my current rig. I upgraded my gfx card from an HD 5870 to a GTX 670 2 GB last x-mas finally, and I had taken the stance that I was not going to go for any 3 monitor setup which is why I didn't get a 4 GB version (had dual 28" 1920x1200 Hanns-G).

Well...let's just say I've had a change of heart recently lol. I already managed to sell my GTX 670 and Radeon 5870 and 1 of the monitors for a decent amount.

Three monitors are going to cost a decent amount so I had originally planned on buying 3x ASUS VG278HE (I can't go down to 24" after having 28") and get a single 670 OC'd 4 GB. I was doing some research though and it seemed like a lot of people were having trouble getting Nvidia Surround working properly recently, and I got to thinking maybe I should go with Eyefinity instead.

I was just wondering for those of you that have taken the plunge into Eyefinity/Surround/3D already what are some of the problems you encountered that you wish you would have known before making your purchase? Just a few random things I heard (I don't know if they are outdated or not):

- I heard AMD has the profile switching between gaming full screen and desktop so you don't have to manually switch out your resolution all the time but Nvidia doesn't. Just in general it seemed like Nvidia surround users were upset while AMD people were happy with Eyefinity.
- That whole pain in the neck DisplayPort active converter for the 3rd monitor I assume this is still required for single card setups without a DP port on the monitor regardless if I go AMD/Nvidia route? Any recommendations if so?
- I heard some people mentioning screen tearing was common on the 3rd bastard monitor, that it doesn't tend to sync to the other two properly. Any truth to this? Any way to prevent it if so?
- I heard HDMI 1.4a or something is required to view movies in 3D or something (maybe it was for a 4th accessory monitor I couldn't remember)? I usually watch most my movies downstairs on my big screen using my WDTV Live anyways so I don't know if I need to worry about it on the monitors I selected.
- If I wanted to move to SLI in the future, say 2 years down the road when these cards become cheap, do I need the exact same make/model or can the cards vary slightly (another EVGA 670 but maybe slightly diff make or clock speed)?
- TN vs IPS panels, do you think it really matters?

I've played 3D once before on my step brother's setup a while ago, but I'm not totally gung-ho about needing to run 3D all the time or have high expectations. Just having 144 Hz refresh rate in 2D will be really nice...however:

- I keep seeing this 'Tri-Def' program being referenced on AMD's site about it being needed to convert 2D games not designed for 3D. Is this almost a must if I go the AMD route?
- I see these 3D glasses for the Nvidia setup has an external sensor, what is this for, coordinating the shuttering with your head movement or something?
- Will I most likely need a few 3rd party programs like fences or widescreen fixer to place HUD related stuff on the center monitor?

Okay I'm done for now.
a c 217 U Graphics card
a c 131 C Monitor
April 25, 2013 8:15:32 AM

I don't know a lot about 2D surround vs Eyefinity, other than they seem comparable. I see different reviews, with different results. Lately, I see more reviews that favor Nvidia, but both have issues with some games and support. If you have a specific game you must have support for, you might need to research that particular game. Eyefinities biggest weakness in this regard is they don't support hardware v-sync, which 3D requires, so HD3D may have issues on 3 monitors.

I do have experience with 3D Vision and HD3D. While HDMI 1.4a is required for an HDMI setup, and certainly the easiest way to play videos if you have a PS3 or Bluray player, it is not required for HD3D gaming. Displayport is supported now, which allows for 1080 @60hz in 3D, HDMI does not (don't use HDMI for HD3D gaming).

Tri-Def isn't really a converter, though I guess it could be called that, but it is much better than the 2D to 3D converters you see built into 3D HDTV's. Tri-Def works like 3D Vision's software, only much more complicated to use, but after using it a bit, you do get used to it. When games support 3D, it generally supports both 3D Vision and TriDef. However, when games don't work well with 3D, there is nothing you can do with TriDef as far as I'm aware. 3D Vision has a nice mod community that has fixed many top flight games to work near perfect in 3D: http://helixmod.wikispot.org/gamelist

The emitter in the monitor and sensor on the glasses is not only on Nvidia 3D Vision systems. It is on any active shutter system, which both HD3D and 3D Vision uses. The emitter and sensor is to sync up the glasses with what is displayed on the screen. Every other image on the screen is meant for a different eye. This is how they create depth. They create a different image for each eye, from a slightly different perspective, giving you binocular vision. To do so, your glasses block out every other frame from one eye while showing the image to the other.

If you've only watched movies, or played 3D on consoles, you'll find 3D Vision and Tridef can be MUCH better than what you've seen. Given the advantages of 3D Vision 2, I would highly recommend you use Nvidia for this setup. But there is a big downside to either system for 3D, and that is it requires nearly double the graphics power. A single 670/680/7970 will not cut it. Even two going with two is questionable, but at least it is possible. What is your budge on this?

I personally would suggest you try a single card, single 3D Vision 2 setup (the monitor you chose is 3D Vision 2, without the kit) and see if you like it before investing so heavily into 3D surround. You can save yourself a lot of money on monitors if you find you don't like 3D Vision at the start.
April 25, 2013 9:03:00 AM

bystander said:
Eyefinities biggest weakness in this regard is they don't support hardware v-sync, which 3D requires, so HD3D may have issues on 3 monitors.


Why is hardware v-sync required for 3D? I thought it was only necessary if your gfx card rendered higher than the refresh rate to prevent image tearing.

bystander said:

I do have experience with 3D Vision and HD3D. While HDMI 1.4a is required for an HDMI setup, and certainly the easiest way to play videos if you have a PS3 or Bluray player, it is not required for HD3D gaming. Displayport is supported now, which allows for 1080 @60hz in 3D, HDMI does not (don't use HDMI for HD3D gaming).


I usually don't watch Blurays on my computer. I usually just stream an xvid AVIs down to my big screen via my WDTV Live box. But from what you're saying, it sounds like I would need to make sure I got HDMI 1.4 on my next big screen (if I wanted to go 3D downstairs in the future).

bystander said:

there is a big downside to either system for 3D, and that is it requires nearly double the graphics power. A single 670/680/7970 will not cut it. Even two going with two is questionable, but at least it is possible. What is your budge on this?


Ah see this is what I was looking for...this is something I had not considered. For some reason I was thinking to get 60 FPS total it would be 30 FPS to each eye, but are you saying it actually has to send 60 FPS to each eye, thus actually rendering 120 FPS to get '60 3D FPS'? Or are you saying pushing 60 FPS to 3 monitors (180 FPS total) is just going to take more raw power?

I guess I can see what you mean now...when I ran the Tomb Raider benchmark yesterday on my 670 GTX 2 GB (before I sold it) on a single monitor at 1920x1200 I think I was averaging 55 FPS on ultra settings.

-------

Do you mind answering my question about the profiles? Or are you only running on a single monitor? I think with the 670/5870/monitor I sold this week plus the refund I'll have around $2K to play with.
Related resources
a c 217 U Graphics card
a c 131 C Monitor
April 25, 2013 9:18:28 AM

booyaah said:
Why is hardware v-sync required for 3D? I thought it was only necessary if your gfx card rendered higher than the refresh rate to prevent image tearing.


In 3D tearing is far more problematic. Because every other frame rendered is meant for a different eye, they are rendered from a different perspective, and so when partial images happen, they are very jarring.

booyaah said:
Ah see this is what I was looking for...this is something I had not considered. For some reason I was thinking to get 60 FPS total it would be 30 FPS to each eye, but are you saying it actually has to send 60 FPS to each eye, thus actually rendering 120 FPS to get '60 3D FPS'? Or are you saying pushing 60 FPS to 3 monitors (180 FPS total) is just going to take more raw power?

Yes, that is correct. 120 images are created in order to give 60 FPS in 3D. One image per eye.

booyaah said:

I guess I can see what you mean now...when I ran the Tomb Raider benchmark yesterday on my 670 GTX 2 GB (before I sold it) on a single monitor at 1920x1200 I think I was averaging 55 FPS on ultra settings.

Not image playing on 3 monitors, then halving that number again.

booyaah said:

Do you mind answering my question about the profiles? Or are you only running on a single monitor? I think with the 670/5870/monitor I sold this week plus the refund I'll have around $2K to play with.


I run on a single monitor. I think you should first try things on a single 3D Vision 2 monitor first. You might not even like 3D Vision 2 (be sure you play it on a game that runs well with it, or use the link I gave above for a fix. Also make sure you change the depth higher than the default, which is almost non depth). If you like 3D Vision, you might consider 3D Vision surround, but that might be more costly to run than you like.
April 25, 2013 12:18:07 PM

So basically going from a single monitor 2D setup to a 3 monitor 3D setup means I would have to multiply by x6 it seems like (2 eyes x 3 monitors). So in order to push 60 3D FPS on a 3 monitor surround setup my total gfx card output would have to be equivalent to 360 2D FPS on a single monitor. Haha yeah that is definitely more than a single card can output. I think I could probably settle for an average of 45 3D FPS..that gets me down to 270 2D FPS ;P

Well, having had dual monitors for the last 3 years, I know for sure I definitely want a 2D surround setup. So I guess I'm pretty confident on these monitors then. Being able to actually display up to 144 FPS properly will be very nice regardless. I just wasn't sure if there were any worthwhile 27" IPS monitors or ones with DisplayPort natively built in.

However after reading the following:

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Nvidia-GeForce-GTX-700...
http://www.overclock.net/t/1361833/gtx-700-series-estim...
http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/31167-geforce-gtx-780...
http://www.wsgf.org/news/amd-releases-radeon-hd-7990

I have decided I should maybe rip out the 550 Ti I put in my server for RemoteFX and 'tough it out' for a few weeks to take advantage or a price drop or performance increase.
a c 217 U Graphics card
a c 131 C Monitor
April 25, 2013 12:29:30 PM

You don't need 6 times the performance, but it is likely about 3-4 times. 3 monitors takes about twice the power for the same performance and 3D Vision isn't quite half the FPS, so it isn't quite so bad. Anyways, Tri-SLI doesn't even help in 3D Vision anyways. The 3rd card would go towards PhysX. The reason I wanted a budget is that Titan SLI would be the ultimate setup, or perhaps Titan LE x2 that is coming in May. It might be more reasonably priced.
April 25, 2013 12:58:38 PM

Yeah, I think at this point I will hold off a month on the graphics cards. I can't really find anything more suitable atm monitor wise. Although, I would really like a 16:10 1920x1200 3D monitor but noooo...

*end rant*

Anyways doesn't a GTX 690 push out more processing power with its dual GPUs compared to a Titan for $999? What are the specs on that upcoming Titan LE?

Oh and have you ever tried this to fix the AMD v-sync problems?
http://www.radeonpro.info/
a c 217 U Graphics card
a c 131 C Monitor
April 25, 2013 1:19:15 PM

booyaah said:
Yeah, I think at this point I will hold off a month on the graphics cards. I can't really find anything more suitable atm monitor wise. Although, I would really like a 16:10 1920x1200 3D monitor but noooo...

*end rant*

Anyways doesn't a GTX 690 push out more processing power with its dual GPUs compared to a Titan for $999? What are the specs on that upcoming Titan LE?

Oh and have you ever tried this to fix the AMD v-sync problems?
http://www.radeonpro.info/


The reason I said Titan LE SLI, and not 690 x2, is the 690 is already in SLI. Adding a 2nd one, and it will not be used in 3D as 3D Vision does not work with more than 2 GPU's and a single 690 by itself is 2 GPU's. The 2nd one won't help.

Radeonpro cannot add hardware handled v-sync, as it is software. RadeonPro can help with microstutter, but it only helps by limiting your FPS. AMD's 3D is also not as good, considering the added 3D Vision fixes from Helix.
!