Microsoft's Shaw Strikes Back at New Coke Comparison

Frank X. Shaw speaks out against all the Windows 8 comparisons to New Coke.

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  1. "Shaw is correct: Windows 8 is a great product."
    I stopped reading there.
  2. It's exactly like New Coke. New Coke wasn't a foul tasting Cola, it just wasn't Coca-Cola. Lot's of people even liked the New Coke, maybe some even better than Classic Coke.
    Windows 8 is fine and you can get along well enough in it, but it isn't Windows as we all knew it. Some people like it, those with touch screen probably like it most, but it's not got enough classic windows that the 500 million windows users worldwide were expecting.
  3. "Shaw is correct: Windows 8 is a great product." On a Tablet I would agree.
  4. And here is a little different point of view about what Shaw said:

    Edit: It's an actual point of view, not just praise and marketing babbling. Tom, I'm disappoint.

    Edit: damn, wrong link, fixed that
  5. People who tell me I'm wrong if I don't like their product just make me dislike it even more.
  6. - Microsoft just needs to learn to swallow their pride and admit they were wrong about Windows 8. I'm still not sure what made them think Windows 8 was a good idea to begin with. They had a good thing going with Windows 7. Why did they feel like they needed to wreck it?
  7. edit: gah, refresh-post again. Sorry...
  8. After I read all of the negative backlash about this new version of Windows, I was very reluctant to even try it, I admit.
    I'm well over 65, so you'd think I'd most likely be resistant to new ideas, but Windows 8 is really, really good.
    Windows 8 has turned out to be one of the most delightful PC operating systems that I have ever used, going all the way back to my early experiences with DOS 2.11.
    There is nothing that any previous version of Windows has done that Windows 8 cannot do, at least for the tasks that I use it for. There is much that it does that nothing else can, as well.
    Instead of listening to others, I'd suggest that someone who is considering it to give it a try for themselves.
    Windows 8 is really good.
  9. Does anyone who comments actually use the product, I've been using Windows 8 since it was RTM and then since it was released. Windows 8 is Windows 7 with a different start button. The desktop experience is the same as it has been in the past, standard non-metro applications work as they always have. In fact I don't use any metro applications, all I do is use Windows 8 like I used Windows 7, or Windows XP, or Windows ME or Windows 95, the only difference now is that when I don't have an application pin'ed to my task bar, I put my mouse in the top right of the screen and then type the first 2-3 characters of the applications name I want and hit enter and it pops up. That takes less time than drilling through the old start button menu, so in my mind time saved and applications work the same ... win win. Other than the start button, Windows 8 is no different from Windows 7 for performance and stability.
  10. To be fair, Windows 8 is a great product if you never have to look at Metro and you have a Start Menu instead of a Start Screen. The thing that concerns me is that Microsoft might be fine with losing 40% of desktop market share if they could gain 20% of mobile/tablet. They want people who buy apps and new devices every 6 months, not people who buy the discounted OS via whoever made their laptop.
  11. devotiecon said:
    "Shaw is correct: Windows 8 is a great product."
    I stopped reading there.

    Windows 8 IS a good product at it's core with technical improvements. Metro is NOT a good change(it's not good enough yet) and the only bad thing about Windows 8. If you disagree, prove me wrong. They really need to return the classic start menu and make metro optional in control panel.

    I use Windows 8 with Start8 and I love it. Why am I using Windows 8? I needed a new license and it was 40 dollars + 5 more for Start8, so why on earth would I not jump at such a deal.
  12. the only thing that makes me hesitant on getting win 8 is the damn tiles. can desktop users just have the ability to turn that shit off? my bro seems to like it, but it seems counter intuitive to look for an app on tiles instead of have them listed alphabetically... you have to do more searching
  13. Windows 8 works well for me. I was skeptical given all the negative press and comments. I think its really good - some growing pains. My 3 year can navigate the start menu. For all those that hate it - what are the specific issues that are making it so hard to use? I have not found anything I can't do in windows 8 that I was doing with windows 7. There are also a lot of improvements compared to windows 7.
  14. Good job Kevin. Windows 8 may not be GREAT, but it is good and it will be improved. I think you have done a better job at avoiding hyperbole and in doing a good analysis than I have seen in a number of different pieces on this issue. Your understanding that Windows 8 is the keystone to a ecosystem covering several different devices and that this is a path that has been embarked upon that is still evolving and improving is spot on.
  15. Windows 8 is worse than new Coke. New Coke was actually a decent product. Windows 8 is a huge step backward as a desktop interface.
  16. Working with and repairing Windows 8 on a daily basis has drawn me to the conclusion that it is quite possibly the worst OS to repair, and for me, the most annoying OS the work with as a result. It's too difficult to list the dozens of small things, but I'll leave you with the most annoying - the old "F8" menu now shuts the computer off after about 30 seconds, giving you that much time to research a specific error... so irritating. One of many, many quirks that have only one purpose - to make a technician's job more annoying.
  17. Microsoft to Coke: See they messed up because they didn't keep updating the new formula. But we do!
    Microsoft to negative views: You just want clicks and fail to recognize out Super Duperness!
    From me to Steve Ballmer: I had a dream and about you and this was the song
  18. Nobody would have ever had a single issue with Windows 8 had they given the user the ability to turn off the tiles on boot, and go straight to the desktop, and give you the option to have the Start button back. It is common sense to just leave those as options for the user.
  19. A good tech never blaims his os. Ya I've had 8 brick on me, but in less than 5 min I restore from an acronis image and back in business. Plus 8 is so robust you can restore just about any image from any motherboard and it boots up no problem on different hardware. Like the other guy pointed out, what specific issue is so impossible in 8 that you guys can't overcome. For every complaint their is an obvious work around. I've run 8 since day one and never see or go to metro ever.
  20. one word = NO.
    the day Windows 7 is no longer supported, I load the best Linux distro,
    Finis. Who needs a dumbed down operating system that works on a cell phone or tablet? Not I.
    Common sense seems to have left the building, so to speak.
  21. Startisback let's you eliminate every trace of metro if u want and its 3 bucks and good for 2 machines. The coolest feature though is that you can make the metro menu renamed to apps instead of start and automatically hide all legacy icons that get pinned automatically. So your 7 start menu only has desktop apps and your new "apps" menu only has metro apps. And if you want no way to get to metro you just erase the apps icon from the start menu. But if you still want secret access to it because you are really a closet metro lover you can hit shift or control, i dont remember, + windows key and the metro version pops up instead of the 7 style menu.
  22. I dont think the problem is the entire Window's 8 operating system. The problem is simply one of its features that Microsoft is bent on pushing to all consumers, That is simply the Metro Interface.
    I been using Windows 8 since release (I got it for like 50 bucks). I gotta say its faster more stable and just runs better then Windows 7 on my system.
    The first thing I do with a clean Window 8 install is download "Classic Start Menu" Load that up and Metro is history. The only time I see metro after that is the 1-2secs it takes for it to be bypassed on startup.
    I really think Windows 8 would have been a major hit with everyone if they simply given desktop users the option to switch from Metro to a Start button interface.
  23. As long as they're prepared to lose sales. For touch Android and IOS is a better choice and offers more features and better phones. Here it goes again and again Having a start menu cover up a whole screen when searching for somthing is nonsense, having a computer boot up to the start screen is nonsense when i have to click on desktop to do everything anyways. Everything else besides their new start screen is amazing just get rid of that start screen on laptops and desktops.
    If you won't get rid of it put more detail into the tiles it looks like a simple windows 3.0 graphics(go back to icons just use bigger icons or have a option). Not to mention let people customize that backgrounds more on the start screen instead of that nasty looking background. Get rid of the side bars all together its horrible and annoying. I remember when Windows 7 came out an i loved it and i even didn't mind Vista much after service pack 1 and i loved XP and i loved 95,98 but this Windows 8 has to go or get an extreme change.
    Its sad that you don't let people change it without 3rd party software when your OS cost money even linux has better options and its free.
  24. What is the big deal with people complaining about Windows 8? Yeah the start screen is not the greatest thing in the world but other than that it's a much better version of Windows 7. Tell me one thing you don't like about it other than the damn start screen. You can even install a 3rd party start menu if you hate it that much. It's the same thing but kind of better with ONE flaw, the start screen, and people are overreacting so much..
  25. Potato13 said:
    What is the big deal with people complaining about Windows 8? Yeah the start screen is not the greatest thing in the world but other than that it's a much better version of Windows 7. Tell me one thing you don't like about it other than the damn start screen. You can even install a 3rd party start menu if you hate it that much. It's the same thing but kind of better with ONE flaw, the start screen, and people are overreacting so much..

    The problem people have with Windows 8 is less about the Start screen, and more about Microsoft not giving you the option to just bypass it, should you choose to not want to use it. Same with the Start button, give us the option, should we want it back. Why limit the consumer like this? Personally I like Windows 8, but some of the decisions they made with it are frankly, quite silly.
  26. Introducing "Windows Classic" :)
  27. Are you serious about that last paragraph Kevin ? Who tells you that Windows 8 is here to stay ? Microsoft ? Just like Windows Vista was here to stay ? They didn't even bother to make Office 2013 compatible with it. Not making it compatible with Windows XP I could understand as it's about to lose support, but with Windows Vista ? Or gadgets, which Microsoft advised everybody to simply turn off because they couldn't bother to fix the alleged security issues of a feature that was part of a product people paid money for, and all of this happpened while Windows 7 was still the current OS ?

    You seriously come off as a biased Microsoft representative for buying all their PR talk.

    And seriously, they have the nerve to come talk about
    "those who want to stand out opt for sensationalism and hyperbole over nuanced analysis. Page views are currency and heat is often more valuable than light." ?

    Sensationalism and hyperbole ? It's funny, because it's exactly what they just did.

    They claim that in the centre 100 million sales is a good thing and that is what matters ? No, no, it isn't. It matters to their shareholders in the short term because they made money off of OEMs, but that's it. According to usage statistics, they have less than 60 million people actually using the OS. So in many cases the OS is either sitting in a desktop or laptop in a store, waiting to be sold or people simply took advantage of the $15 / $39.99 promotion but still didn't bother to install it because Windows 7 is at the moment the better OS to actually use.

    The upgrade adoption rate for the month of April is ridiculous, below 4%, below what Windows Vista had in a comparable timeframe (and Windows Vista didn't have the benefit of being released before the holiday season).

    Microsoft just seems more interested in refuting analysts than listening to complaints. All the complaints about the interface had been written all over enthusiasts forums months before the final release, but from their posts it seems they preferred to listen to telemetry data to justify their decisions (especifically getting rid of the Start menu).

    First off, not everybody gives Microsoft telemetry data, many users opt to turn that feature off, second, interpreting telemetry data without actually listening to the consumers is the wrong thing to do, it's akin to tuning a Formula 1 car according to the telemetry data without listening to the driver. If this is the kind of feedback they decided to listen to, you take a wild guess at why Windows 8 is a failure. Takes too much effort to repeat listening to consumers like they did for Windows 7 ? Too bad, they even have a search engine to make searching for feedback easier, they don't even have to talk to people in person (although that is certainly advisable).

    Also, as far as I know Windows 8 is here to stay... until they (hopefully) release a decent overhaul with some meaningful changes in the form of Windows 8.1. So, no, if all goes well and Microsoft does indeed listen, Windows 8 is only here to stay until October, and hopefully Windows 8.1 is indeed different and improved in many key aspects.
  28. jack1982 said:
    People who tell me I'm wrong if I don't like their product just make me dislike it even more.

    Oh give me a break!

    That's not even close to what he's saying - he's saying that you're wrong if you call their product a failure, not if you just don't like it.
  29. I am old enough to remember New Coke. What a hog's ear that was. I was very glad that Coca Cola Classic came out. Eventually of course there became no such thing as Coca Cola Classic. The New Coke was just dropped from the line up and quietly slunk away. If only...........
    In a way W8 is not New Coke. For one thing it can be modified to offer both regular Coke and New Coke in one experience. If MS is smart it will make this modification. If not.... then W8 will still not be like New Coke, because rather than quietly going away, it will lead to the eventual destruction of Windows as an operating system, as some company.... like Google perhaps, steps in and offers an OS people don't mind using.
  30. The New Coke comparison is remarkably accurate and Microsoft is in denial. If they did indeed sell 100 million copies, is it because those were preloaded on machines where people had no choice but to take what was loaded? Did they return it in disgust? Did they downgrade? I doubt MS will give us those stats. Here's one I'd like to see... "Number of users upgrading from windows 7 to Windows 8". I'll bet it's 100x lower than those upgrading from Vista to Windows 7. Microsoft - take the hint. Windows 8 is NOT the operating system we wanted. I have access to Windows 8 for free (via my Technet subscription) and I won't even use it for free. Tried it twice, REALLY tried to like it. In the end, returned to Windows 7. Too much done badly, too little done well, too many sacrifices. For me to switch to Windows 8, at the VERY MINIMUM I need the complete Start menu back, with all its functionality, and the ability to never see the tile interface unless I specifically launch it. Oh, and return Aero and gadgets, thanks.
  31. I may be very easy to go with change but I remember hating Windows 8 from my minimal experience in a virtualbox setup. And it was terrible. So when I needed to build a new desktop and windows 8 would save me $200 from 7, I was really worried that I was crippling a new, awesome system with a terrible OS. And I can say now, from my experience, it is so like 7 with a few minor changes that I soon upgrades my laptop to 8 before the price rose. And I'm very happy with it. The 'metro' or tiled interface is very simplistic and everything is a click away (no going start>All programs, just Start) and the changes around the desktop, which I still find to be the focus of the system, have really made it quite enjoyable.
    I know people will disagree, I'm just saying, I know what you mean. I hated it. Refused to try it. Argued bitterly with friends against it., its actually not really THAT different from 7.
  32. Shaw is claiming they acknowledge they listen to feedback and make changes to products based on feedback. This may be true, when their research group is all a bunch of yes-men. Then to go on and claim like 100 million sales was a big achievement when OEMs had almost no choice but to buy Windows 8 to ship with new PCs. No one in the public believes any of this nonsense, but they have to lie to themselves so they can all keep their jobs they're so bad at.
  33. Why isn't people getting fired over this meto disaster? It's like no one at Microsoft is being held responsible for anything.
  34. Why can't I vote on the comments? I keep getting "An error has occurred." Doesn't happen in other articles.
    Did MS hack your forums, Tom's? Or did they just threaten a lawsuit?
  35. But of course we all know that Win 8 sells poorly because of salespeople at Walmart.
    Right, Kevin?
    Oh and, the irony, Tom's is usually the one guilty of sensationalist (or totally incorrect) headlines for page clicks.
  36. 2000 Microsoft employee families can't be wrong...(seeing as that's the only demographic allowed into Microsoft's research labs nowadays) 'Windows8 - selling ourselves our own hype since 2012'
  37. In the center, you try to please everyone and end up disappointing most of your customers.
    I started hating Windows at Vista/Win7. The only good thing about Win7 is that it is really stable. But there are a way too many usability issues, like volume controls that don't work, a brain damaged Explorer, a dumbed down and ribbonized Paint, and entirely missing Hyperterminal, just to name a few.
  38. I don't use start menu since Vista... just press win taster, type 3-5 letters of the program you need and that's it... Feature is there, just looks different... Is the look all what professional annalists and journalists are able to talk... sad...
  39. Microsoft, if you want us to take you seriously, give us numbers for how many upgrades were sold to existing win7 users, that were installed, and that were still active more than 30/60/90 days later. That's a number that reflects consumer choice and acceptance. The bulk of that 100mm you keep quoting is sales bundled with a new PC in which the consumer was not making or offered a choice as to O/S version.
  40. b23h said:
    Good job Kevin. Windows 8 may not be GREAT, but it is good and it will be improved. I think you have done a better job at avoiding hyperbole and in doing a good analysis than I have seen in a number of different pieces on this issue. Your understanding that Windows 8 is the keystone to a ecosystem covering several different devices and that this is a path that has been embarked upon that is still evolving and improving is spot on.

    "Your understanding that Windows 8 is the keystone to a ecosystem covering several different devices and that this is a path that has been embarked upon that is still evolving and improving is spot on."

    I mean, really. Don't you just love it when PR department lower themselves to so pathetic levels as posting on forums and bribing portals to post positive articles about them? Yeah... At least they publicly prise author of said article for doing a good job, hah.
  41. It is NOT like Coke. It would be like Coke if practically everything you bought for eating came with a Coke, and if you didn't want that, you'd have to throw the Coke away, get some fruit on a nearby tree and make your own juice.
    It's funny when MS say it "sold 100M copies". How many of those were actual boxes or downloads used to voluntarily upgrade/migrate from other OS, and how many were actual HARDWARE sales, which came by default with Win8??
  42. Everygamer is wrong - Windows 8 *is* different from Windows 7 for performance and stability - it's much better!
    Otherwise I agree, Windows 8 is a great OS. Microsoft (and their hardware partners) made two mistakes -
    (1) set the default programs to the tablet versions no matter what hardware you had, so clicking on a movie or mp3 opened the full screen tablet app. These apps were (a) practically still beta when 8 was launched and (b) while great for a tablet, were far inferior to the desktop versions when on a desktop. There should have been a question at installation what to default to
    (2) Upgrading or installing a laptop with touchpad, on many devices sets up the touchpad to simulate a touch screen, so moving your finger in from a side works like a swipe. Even if you realised this (most don't) it results in all sorts of weird things happening when in desktop mode.
    Both problems are easily fixed (reset the defaults and disable the touchpad swipes) which, on a desktop, leaves the start menu instead of start button as the only significant interface change. Personally I like that change, but even if you don't it's not such a huge issue as the others
  43. In the end what did Coke do but back track and reintroduce Classic Coke. What will Microsoft do? Classic desktop anyone?
  44. It is new coke. See if this sounds familiar...back then coke was losing share to Pepsi. Coke thought that this was because consumers tastes were changing and they like the sweeter tasteof Pepsi, and that Pepsi was big with younger drinkers and seen as cool, where coke was viewed as old fashioned. So to stem the bleeding coke decided it needed to make its product more like Pepsi. Coke uses rebelled, and coke finally relented and brought back coke ( was no longer made with was made with corn sweeteners). Why does ms think they can have a single os that works across all platforms (4 inch phones to a dot with a 20 inch display and keyboard)? Even apple doesn't do this. They are nuts if they think I want to sit at my desk or a meeting at work and be jabbing at my screen endlessly. Ms, you need two os, for business/folks who create content/like a keyboard and one for mobile users who consume.
  45. At least Coke brings some sparkles in people's life ;)
  46. W8, like iOS, is just the further dumbing down of the masses. Touch the pretty colors, get what you want. W8 is SO obviously a tablet OS meant to further push everyone to adopt tablets in place of laptop REAL computers, that can actually perform, and do USEFUL tasks, not entertain, shop, or show everyone else just how foolishly you spend your money on grossly overpriced TOYS. Apps, and touch screens are for my smartphone. As others said, when Windows 8.1 is introduced, I'll reconsider IF MS sensibly listens, and gives options in place of having to go the third party route to get what you need, and desire in your OS. Otherwise, it's the final, total, and sensible adoption of the Linux OS that I should have completed long ago anyway.
  47. As an aside, I have not, and will never purchase a tablet of ANY shape, form, size, or make. MOST ESPECIALLY anything made by Apple. They're grossly overpriced toys, and nothing more than that. I have never seen anyone doing anything resembling serious tasks on one. It's been playing games, watching movies or worthless TV programs, shopping (of course!), or letting a 3-4 year old child play with a $600-$800 VERY FRAGILE gadget, so they wouldn't be bothering mommy while she was engrossed in an "important" mobile call. Anti tablet rant over.
  48. I think it is hilarious that someone tells me I am wrong to dislike their products make statements like this guy did... It also shows the arrogance and reason WHY many of us have issues with companies like Microsoft and Apple. Computers and such are not getting better nor more user friendly.. Instead they are just getting faster and adding capabilities that some uppity engineers think would be cool and that they want to have.
    PC Computers and the OS's are basically unchanged since the first PC was introduced.. they all use the same basic structure and design. Other than feature and speed, they are basically just like the original PC.
    I think we are a long way from seeing the day when a truly huge leap in PC's and the way they not only function but also interact with the human person comes along. That is not going to happen until someone designs a truly different style and architecture as well in terms of the WAY a computer processes, operates at the circuit level and functions overall.
    I.E. something out of Star Trek or something that we cannot conceive or comprehend at this point.. We MUST get away from the basic designs we have today.. yet for some reason we do not do so.
  49. Just restore the start button. Jeez, arrogance that is unrivaled.
    In a failed attempt to get back into the phone/tablet market they kill their monopoly office/outlook hook by killing PC sales (15-31% decrease in PC sales in the first quarter of Win8 depending of the vendor).
    Their arrogance is only surpassed by their incompetence.
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