This is why we need to stop users selecting best answers
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- Tom's Hardware
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mactronix
May 14, 2013 9:14:29 AM
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/answers/id-1676138/amd-cr...
There are a wealth of better answers on this thread and the member who selected best answer has not even contributed. Also the thread is only just 1 Hour old.
If people cant be sensible and give the OPS a chance to select the answer themselves then I believe we must impose a minimum time frame where it is impossible for anyone except the OP or Moderation to select an answer as BA.
Its not about who gets the BA, Rolli is a great contributor and has probably missed a fair share of BA's that should have been awarded
I don't care for myself but this is plain stupid.
Mactronix
There are a wealth of better answers on this thread and the member who selected best answer has not even contributed. Also the thread is only just 1 Hour old.
If people cant be sensible and give the OPS a chance to select the answer themselves then I believe we must impose a minimum time frame where it is impossible for anyone except the OP or Moderation to select an answer as BA.
Its not about who gets the BA, Rolli is a great contributor and has probably missed a fair share of BA's that should have been awarded
I don't care for myself but this is plain stupid.
Mactronix
More about : stop users selecting answers
mactronix,
I agree that, sometimes users don't bother to take the responsibility of selecting best answers seriously. That is why the mods have the power to change a best answer after it has been selected.
However, I disagree that this should be reason to eliminate the feature entirely. Most of the time, I think users do a good job of selecting best answers. This helps future users looking at the site a great deal. I don't think its practical to expect mods to be able to set best answers on all threads. It makes a lot more sense for the user to select what actually worked for him.
Thanks!
Justin
I agree that, sometimes users don't bother to take the responsibility of selecting best answers seriously. That is why the mods have the power to change a best answer after it has been selected.
However, I disagree that this should be reason to eliminate the feature entirely. Most of the time, I think users do a good job of selecting best answers. This helps future users looking at the site a great deal. I don't think its practical to expect mods to be able to set best answers on all threads. It makes a lot more sense for the user to select what actually worked for him.
Thanks!
Justin
mactronix
May 14, 2013 11:16:30 AM
Justin,
I don't expect the Moderation team to take on the responsibility of selecting best answer to all threads but you cant very well shut out moderation from changing a thread that's why I stated the OP and Moderation.
The old system worked perfectly well. Under the new system we are getting many instances of the sort of thread I posted a link to. Yes I could report them all to moderation but realistically they would soon get sick of it and then I would become the problem.
While moderation have the power to change things I feel that if people actually reported these instances it would be giving them more to do.
The whole reason for this ability was explained to me as being so that incorrect or unhelpful best answers could be rectified by the community. It seems to me that the reverse is happening and the best answer on the thread is very rarely selected or even given time to appear.
To me it's more like, as long as the threads get answered, a BA is selected and no one cries foul we don't care.
I have actually been dissuaded to bother posting and contributing since the update.
I am not the only veteran user who feels this way. we had a discussion on this subject at the launch where we were assured that the count would increase to 20 Best answers required to select a BA, This has yet to happen.
We were also told that the issue would be monitored with a view to changing it later if needed.
Seriously It cant be right that one user can select BA on another users thread when that thread has only been open for a short time giving the OP no chance to select their own BA.
Mactronix.
I don't expect the Moderation team to take on the responsibility of selecting best answer to all threads but you cant very well shut out moderation from changing a thread that's why I stated the OP and Moderation.
The old system worked perfectly well. Under the new system we are getting many instances of the sort of thread I posted a link to. Yes I could report them all to moderation but realistically they would soon get sick of it and then I would become the problem.
While moderation have the power to change things I feel that if people actually reported these instances it would be giving them more to do.
The whole reason for this ability was explained to me as being so that incorrect or unhelpful best answers could be rectified by the community. It seems to me that the reverse is happening and the best answer on the thread is very rarely selected or even given time to appear.
To me it's more like, as long as the threads get answered, a BA is selected and no one cries foul we don't care.
I have actually been dissuaded to bother posting and contributing since the update.
I am not the only veteran user who feels this way. we had a discussion on this subject at the launch where we were assured that the count would increase to 20 Best answers required to select a BA, This has yet to happen.
We were also told that the issue would be monitored with a view to changing it later if needed.
Seriously It cant be right that one user can select BA on another users thread when that thread has only been open for a short time giving the OP no chance to select their own BA.
Mactronix.
mactronix,
I see what you mean. Do you think just increasing the requirement for BA selection to a more BAs in order to gain the privileged would be enough? I'm thinking if you time limited it, expert members with lots of BAs might not return later to select one that is actually useful. This would be especially true if the timelimit was something crazy like two weeks. What time limit were you thinking?
Justin
I see what you mean. Do you think just increasing the requirement for BA selection to a more BAs in order to gain the privileged would be enough? I'm thinking if you time limited it, expert members with lots of BAs might not return later to select one that is actually useful. This would be especially true if the timelimit was something crazy like two weeks. What time limit were you thinking?
Justin
mactronix
May 14, 2013 1:33:11 PM
Increasing the BA count would I guess go someway to giving the feeling of having earned the privilege.
However I do think a time limit to give others a chance to post and for the OP to return to the thread and select a best answer would be the way to go.
I think you are spot on about the time limit, if it was to be introduced having to be realistic. The biggest time frame people would be away would be over the weekend but then again the forum see's relativity little traffic over the weekend so I don't think even that long would be needed.
I would think that 24Hrs or maybe just over say 30Hrs to allow for a lap would be enough.
Most people who were looking for an answer to a question would be coming back the next day/Night to check for replies and those that were looking to assist would follow the same pattern I would think.
Mactronix
However I do think a time limit to give others a chance to post and for the OP to return to the thread and select a best answer would be the way to go.
I think you are spot on about the time limit, if it was to be introduced having to be realistic. The biggest time frame people would be away would be over the weekend but then again the forum see's relativity little traffic over the weekend so I don't think even that long would be needed.
I would think that 24Hrs or maybe just over say 30Hrs to allow for a lap would be enough.
Most people who were looking for an answer to a question would be coming back the next day/Night to check for replies and those that were looking to assist would follow the same pattern I would think.
Mactronix
rolli59
May 15, 2013 6:11:06 AM
I agree with Mac and I would have pulled up the same example but there are many others like that as I pointed out in this thread which has seen little attention from the mod/admin team http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/id-1671251/assignin...
Absolute minimum would be 24hrs time limit since I see a lot of OP's list a question one night and then respond to answers the next. Most veteran forum users follow their threads so if there is a response they will check.
Just to comment on the example thread which really should have been a discussion rather then question thread since really it is just speculation and opinions.
I could have gone with my user privileges and reselected another best answers. Why should I though I GOT BA and Colgeek got credit for selecting BA, now I can go and repay him for the credit?
Just an example of why users SHOULD NOT HAVE this power.
Absolute minimum would be 24hrs time limit since I see a lot of OP's list a question one night and then respond to answers the next. Most veteran forum users follow their threads so if there is a response they will check.
Just to comment on the example thread which really should have been a discussion rather then question thread since really it is just speculation and opinions.
I could have gone with my user privileges and reselected another best answers. Why should I though I GOT BA and Colgeek got credit for selecting BA, now I can go and repay him for the credit?
Just an example of why users SHOULD NOT HAVE this power.
mactronix
May 15, 2013 9:09:18 AM
rolli59 said:
I agree with Mac and I would have pulled up the same example but there are many others like that as I pointed out in this thread which has seen little attention from the mod/admin team http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/id-1671251/assignin...Absolute minimum would be 24hrs time limit since I see a lot of OP's list a question one night and then respond to answers the next. Most veteran forum users follow their threads so if there is a response they will check.
Just to comment on the example thread which really should have been a discussion rather then question thread since really it is just speculation and opinions.
I could have gone with my user privileges and reselected another best answers. Why should I though I GOT BA and Colgeek got credit for selecting BA, now I can go and repay him for the credit?
Just an example of why users SHOULD NOT HAVE this power.
Hi rolli,
I do agree with you that 24 Hrs may be a little short, Had there been no answer from Justin it would have been 12+ hours time before I could log in again. That would easily put us outside the 24-30 Hrs I first suggested.
What sort of time frame would you suggest ? Personally I would like to see between a couple of days to a week. I pitched low because, well we need to get this sorted and even a small window would be better than nothing.
What credit do you get for selecting BA's then ? Is there a badge for answer selecting ?
Mac
rolli59
May 15, 2013 11:09:16 AM
mactronix said:
rolli59 said:
I agree with Mac and I would have pulled up the same example but there are many others like that as I pointed out in this thread which has seen little attention from the mod/admin team http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/id-1671251/assignin...Absolute minimum would be 24hrs time limit since I see a lot of OP's list a question one night and then respond to answers the next. Most veteran forum users follow their threads so if there is a response they will check.
Just to comment on the example thread which really should have been a discussion rather then question thread since really it is just speculation and opinions.
I could have gone with my user privileges and reselected another best answers. Why should I though I GOT BA and Colgeek got credit for selecting BA, now I can go and repay him for the credit?
Just an example of why users SHOULD NOT HAVE this power.
Hi rolli,
I do agree with you that 24 Hrs may be a little short, Had there been no answer from Justin it would have been 12+ hours time before I could log in again. That would easily put us outside the 24-30 Hrs I first suggested.
What sort of time frame would you suggest ? Personally I would like to see between a couple of days to a week. I pitched low because, well we need to get this sorted and even a small window would be better than nothing.
What credit do you get for selecting BA's then ? Is there a badge for answer selecting ?
Mac
Mac I would not be opposed to 3 days to a week as a time limit. Maybe the system can send reminders to participants in threads like it did to the OP in the old system after some time of inactivity?
In the old point system you would get points for having the BA as well original OP would get points for selecting BA. My believe is that selecting BA now counts towards tag associated badges (unconfirmed) BA selected does and assigning tags does according to Joe, see here http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-1652564/assigns-ta...
I think we've seen the number of Best Answers increase dramatically since implementing the new ability for users with more than 5 BA's to select a BA on a thread response. It's a strange line to walk, between mitigating the number of best answers selected erroneously and increasing the eligibility and potentiality of responses to be selected as best answers. We're bound to see some infrequent problem threads, where a Best Answer is clear, and yet hasn't been selected, or another has been selected in its stead. Or even Best Answer wars. But we're still not entirely sure whether or not this is preferable to the barren wasteland of Best Answer-less posts we were seeing before, where a user got their solution and never bothered to return to express gratitude by simply clicking a button.
Previously, I had asked for the threshold to be increased from the current 5 BA's to 20 BA's required before a user is qualified to set Best Answers. I'm no longer certain this is necessary. We'll know more when a statistical analysis is run later this month.
Previously, I had asked for the threshold to be increased from the current 5 BA's to 20 BA's required before a user is qualified to set Best Answers. I'm no longer certain this is necessary. We'll know more when a statistical analysis is run later this month.
mactronix
May 16, 2013 8:37:56 AM
Joe,
What I am getting come across from both your last comment and the comment on the "Moderators effectiveness decreased" thread is that as long as certain metrics are ticked off you pretty much are happy and changing things really isn't an option.
Saying that moderators are doing a job and shouldn't be open to constructive criticism reads an awful lot like like it or lump it from where I am siting. All those moderators on that thread had no need to answer and engage the thread. Maybe they did so because they wanted to ?
On the Best answers front, well again I may be having a bad afternoon and getting your meaning all wrong However you seem to have moved from wanting more technically correct best answers selected, which was the reason stated for introducing the user ability in the first place to just wanting BA's selected full stop.
If this is the case then just remove the 5 BA rule and let everyone join in.
I have always enjoyed Toms due to the laid back nature that has always existed. People and moderators were more than willing to engage each other and there were very few instances of people flaring up at moderation.
It seems to have turned into a tick box operation ever since the update.
BA's selected.Check.
Mods cleaning threads up. Check.
One day you seem to welcome input and suggestions the next you seem to be on the defensive, not wanting the change and are happy as long as the forum is running how you want it to.
To be honest I'm a little confused right now. Feed back has been good and everyone yourself include have been very open and engaging.
Today you seem to be shutting down idea's. Was there ever any possibility that there would be any change from the way you want it done ? does the user base really have a say or were you just humoring us all along ?
I'm sorry I realize this comes over very negative. I really want to be involved and do care. I just don't want to be wasting my time banging my head on a brick wall is all.
Mactronix
What I am getting come across from both your last comment and the comment on the "Moderators effectiveness decreased" thread is that as long as certain metrics are ticked off you pretty much are happy and changing things really isn't an option.
Saying that moderators are doing a job and shouldn't be open to constructive criticism reads an awful lot like like it or lump it from where I am siting. All those moderators on that thread had no need to answer and engage the thread. Maybe they did so because they wanted to ?
On the Best answers front, well again I may be having a bad afternoon and getting your meaning all wrong However you seem to have moved from wanting more technically correct best answers selected, which was the reason stated for introducing the user ability in the first place to just wanting BA's selected full stop.
If this is the case then just remove the 5 BA rule and let everyone join in.
I have always enjoyed Toms due to the laid back nature that has always existed. People and moderators were more than willing to engage each other and there were very few instances of people flaring up at moderation.
It seems to have turned into a tick box operation ever since the update.
BA's selected.Check.
Mods cleaning threads up. Check.
One day you seem to welcome input and suggestions the next you seem to be on the defensive, not wanting the change and are happy as long as the forum is running how you want it to.
To be honest I'm a little confused right now. Feed back has been good and everyone yourself include have been very open and engaging.
Today you seem to be shutting down idea's. Was there ever any possibility that there would be any change from the way you want it done ? does the user base really have a say or were you just humoring us all along ?
I'm sorry I realize this comes over very negative. I really want to be involved and do care. I just don't want to be wasting my time banging my head on a brick wall is all.
Mactronix
rolli59
May 16, 2013 10:11:07 AM
mactronix
May 17, 2013 4:49:54 AM
A misunderstanding, perhaps.
Metrics serve as goal posts here, but are not the guiding factors. The first and foremost is to provide a forum that is valuable, safe, and useful to our users. If traffic were the primary steering concern for our community, there would be entire subforums dedicated to scantily clad persons modeling case fans. Quality, first and foremost.
Mods are not open to constructive criticism, or criticism at all. The reason is, that while they do represent the community, they aren't capable of acting on your critical feedback with the developers - that's my role. Criticism, constructive and otherwise, is what I channel to the dev team acting simultaneously as forum user advocate and the official representative of Tom's Hardware to the Tom's Hardware Community. I send your concerns on, filtered, annotated, derived and concentrated in as clear terms as possible to the editorial and development team members so they have a firm understanding of what it is you and the rest of the community at large want. Likewise, I communicate their desires and raw information to you, the community, in terms and language that are easy to digest and understand. I speak for you, to them. I speak for them, to you.
In other words, the mods are your police, whereas I'm your legislator. You wouldn't complain to a cop about how unfair you think a certain law is and expect it to change as a result- because he' there to serve justice and do his duty enforcing it. But feel free to send me your suggestions, comments, criticisms, concerns - and I'll make sure they are addressed.
BA counts aren't super important, but they do make it easier for visitors to find valuable information on the forums. The number of unsolved threads in the older system was very, very high - and this was unfortunate because a lot of those threads were actually solved, just not marked as such. We haven't seen the level of fraud or gaming the system that was cautioned against when we transitioned to the new platform and the 5 BA's or higher eligibility requirements, but this is still something we're paying close attention to, and have instituted new policy to protect against. I'm not dead-set against changing the way it is right this moment, but it seems to be working alright at current.
I will always welcome input and suggestions. If you were involved in the beta for the new platform, or any of the test features, you'll know that we value input and feedback very greatly. My preference is that you go direct to me, either through a new thread here or private message, rather than attempt to flag down a mod for the purpose of providing input.
I hope this clears up some confusion.
-JP
Quote:
as long as certain metrics are ticked off you pretty much are happyMetrics serve as goal posts here, but are not the guiding factors. The first and foremost is to provide a forum that is valuable, safe, and useful to our users. If traffic were the primary steering concern for our community, there would be entire subforums dedicated to scantily clad persons modeling case fans. Quality, first and foremost.
Quote:
Saying that moderators are doing a job and shouldn't be open to constructive criticism reads an awful lot like like it or lump it from where I am siting.Mods are not open to constructive criticism, or criticism at all. The reason is, that while they do represent the community, they aren't capable of acting on your critical feedback with the developers - that's my role. Criticism, constructive and otherwise, is what I channel to the dev team acting simultaneously as forum user advocate and the official representative of Tom's Hardware to the Tom's Hardware Community. I send your concerns on, filtered, annotated, derived and concentrated in as clear terms as possible to the editorial and development team members so they have a firm understanding of what it is you and the rest of the community at large want. Likewise, I communicate their desires and raw information to you, the community, in terms and language that are easy to digest and understand. I speak for you, to them. I speak for them, to you.
In other words, the mods are your police, whereas I'm your legislator. You wouldn't complain to a cop about how unfair you think a certain law is and expect it to change as a result- because he' there to serve justice and do his duty enforcing it. But feel free to send me your suggestions, comments, criticisms, concerns - and I'll make sure they are addressed.
Quote:
I did not know that BA count was this important. We may have had fewer BA in the old system but really with the OP or mod selecting them they were the best answers not something selected on a whim by somebody for credit.BA counts aren't super important, but they do make it easier for visitors to find valuable information on the forums. The number of unsolved threads in the older system was very, very high - and this was unfortunate because a lot of those threads were actually solved, just not marked as such. We haven't seen the level of fraud or gaming the system that was cautioned against when we transitioned to the new platform and the 5 BA's or higher eligibility requirements, but this is still something we're paying close attention to, and have instituted new policy to protect against. I'm not dead-set against changing the way it is right this moment, but it seems to be working alright at current.
Quote:
One day you seem to welcome input and suggestions the next you seem to be on the defensive, not wanting the change and are happy as long as the forum is running how you want it to.I will always welcome input and suggestions. If you were involved in the beta for the new platform, or any of the test features, you'll know that we value input and feedback very greatly. My preference is that you go direct to me, either through a new thread here or private message, rather than attempt to flag down a mod for the purpose of providing input.
I hope this clears up some confusion.
-JP
mactronix
May 17, 2013 1:25:37 PM
Thanks for taking the time to break it down.
When you say "BA counts aren't super important, but they do make it easier for visitors to find valuable information on the forums."
The point is that with people going BA selecting crazy for credit the answers are not valuable at all but often very short sentences that amount to a yes or no answer. The better answers come along later but its too late by then.
However if you are happy with this then I guess I am as well.
I'm not going to continue to try and ram a square peg in a round hole, you are doubtless an educated man and understand the issue pretty fully by now.
To be honest I'm not sure where I go from here, I could start correcting what I see as incorrectly selected BA'S to the betterment of the content in the forum. That would likely cause friction though and I'm fairly sure that would just end up with me being told to stop doing it.
Or I move on to pastures new.
When I started on these forums many many years ago now, it took a lot of time a effort to be taken seriously as someone who's input was worth paying attention to. Now after the change new users are getting 5 BA's within days and are running around selecting indiscriminate BA's for credit.
Can you not see how much of a kick in the teeth that is to us veteran users ?
Thanks for your time and patience.
Mac
When you say "BA counts aren't super important, but they do make it easier for visitors to find valuable information on the forums."
The point is that with people going BA selecting crazy for credit the answers are not valuable at all but often very short sentences that amount to a yes or no answer. The better answers come along later but its too late by then.
However if you are happy with this then I guess I am as well.
I'm not going to continue to try and ram a square peg in a round hole, you are doubtless an educated man and understand the issue pretty fully by now.
To be honest I'm not sure where I go from here, I could start correcting what I see as incorrectly selected BA'S to the betterment of the content in the forum. That would likely cause friction though and I'm fairly sure that would just end up with me being told to stop doing it.
Or I move on to pastures new.
When I started on these forums many many years ago now, it took a lot of time a effort to be taken seriously as someone who's input was worth paying attention to. Now after the change new users are getting 5 BA's within days and are running around selecting indiscriminate BA's for credit.
Can you not see how much of a kick in the teeth that is to us veteran users ?
Thanks for your time and patience.
Mac
We are however going to laugh at you if you select bad ones ... so don't select a BA when you clearly have the brain of a gnat regarding the particular topic.
Hence I won't be selecting BA's for the following:
Condolisa Rice's dress choice;
The ugliest person who shopped at WalMart;
Anything on Networking ... and possibly most of the other areas.
I will continue to select BA's in areas where a humorous response is in fact the best answer.
That is all ... carry on.
Hence I won't be selecting BA's for the following:
Condolisa Rice's dress choice;
The ugliest person who shopped at WalMart;
Anything on Networking ... and possibly most of the other areas.
I will continue to select BA's in areas where a humorous response is in fact the best answer.
That is all ... carry on.
Ubrales
February 8, 2014 3:32:05 AM
Ubrales
February 8, 2014 3:40:50 AM
Ubrales
February 8, 2014 7:01:45 AM
Reynod said:
Sometimes we get it wrong though ... we are not infallable.rolli59 should be consulted in that case ...
Look at the alternative. What happens if a trouble-maker runs around unselecting and changing BAs by the hundreds? I wonder whether the system can be reverted to its original state! I know that there are backups, but what a mess this situation would be!
Ubrales said:
Users should not have the privilege of unselecting the OP's or Mod's choice of Best Answer. This is my input and I appreciate if Joe and his team will consider this suggestion.I very much appreciate having the ability to unselect best answers, regardless of whom they are selected by.
There are many instances of users who come here looking for a quick and dirty answer and simply select the first response regardless of how accurate or informed it actually is.
Tom's Hardware is quite SEO optimized and BAs tend to show up on searches quite often, so I think that it's quite important to keep posts that are full of nonsense from being selected.
Ubrales
February 9, 2014 4:02:40 AM
Pinhedd said:
Ubrales said:
Users should not have the privilege of unselecting the OP's or Mod's choice of Best Answer. This is my input and I appreciate if Joe and his team will consider this suggestion.I very much appreciate having the ability to unselect best answers, regardless of whom they are selected by.
There are many instances of users who come here looking for a quick and dirty answer and simply select the first response regardless of how accurate or informed it actually is.
Tom's Hardware is quite SEO optimized and BAs tend to show up on searches quite often, so I think that it's quite important to keep posts that are full of nonsense from being selected.
It is precisely for this reason that ,mods and the OP (mods can always overrule the OP if needed) should have the privilege of handling BAs; selecting and unselecting the OP's choices.
My concern is sooner or later there will be trouble-makers who run amok selecting/unselecting BAs indiscriminately. This will lead to chaos! Our mods are capable people. Leave it to the mods and the OP, not to posters at large.
Ubrales said:
Pinhedd said:
Ubrales said:
Users should not have the privilege of unselecting the OP's or Mod's choice of Best Answer. This is my input and I appreciate if Joe and his team will consider this suggestion.I very much appreciate having the ability to unselect best answers, regardless of whom they are selected by.
There are many instances of users who come here looking for a quick and dirty answer and simply select the first response regardless of how accurate or informed it actually is.
Tom's Hardware is quite SEO optimized and BAs tend to show up on searches quite often, so I think that it's quite important to keep posts that are full of nonsense from being selected.
It is precisely for this reason that ,mods and the OP (mods can always overrule the OP if needed) should have the privilege of handling BAs; selecting and unselecting the OP's choices.
My concern is sooner or later there will be trouble-makers who run amok selecting/unselecting BAs indiscriminately. This will lead to chaos! Our mods are capable people. Leave it to the mods and the OP, not to posters at large.
The mods are capable but they are also busy. While I certainly understand your concern, it's not as if anyone can go around unselecting BAs indiscriminately. There is a threshold and while I think that 5 BAs is a little bit low, it's better than nothing.
Ubrales
February 9, 2014 1:10:57 PM
[/quotemsg]
The mods are capable but they are also busy. While I certainly understand your concern, it's not as if anyone can go around unselecting BAs indiscriminately. There is a threshold and while I think that 5 BAs is a little bit low, it's better than nothing.[/quotemsg]
Yes I understand your point of view!
The mods are capable but they are also busy. While I certainly understand your concern, it's not as if anyone can go around unselecting BAs indiscriminately. There is a threshold and while I think that 5 BAs is a little bit low, it's better than nothing.[/quotemsg]
Yes I understand your point of view!
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