Building 1st PC in 8 years, need review and advice on a few things

[gunslingor]

I'm pretty sure I want to go with AMD for the price points primarily. This naturally lead to the following selection, which I think is top of the line within the realm of AMD (let me know if you disagree):

AMD FX-8350 Vishera 4.0GHz (4.2GHz Turbo) Socket AM3+ 125W Eight-Core Desktop Processor FD8350FRHKBOX :
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113284

G.SKILL Trident X Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2400 (PC3 19200) Desktop Memory:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231639

ASUS Crosshair V Formula-Z:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131876

1. First question, are there any compatibility issues with the items I've selected?

2. Second question, without too much price difference (some is fine, +/-$200) would anyone do anything differently?

3. Why the hell are there so many graphics cards!!!! lol. I need help, I'm sorta looking $200-$400, preferably on the low side but if I can find an $800 card for $400 on some kind of deal then great! A really good deal would be great. I understand all the specs, but not which spec is the most important so its hard to select. So I've sort of selected these, mainly because newegg seems to be limited on 2 slot pci 2.0 graphics cards for some reason:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121660
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130826
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202035

I really need help though...suggestions and what not.

4. I have a tower enclosure, but need a new power supply for all this. How much power is all the above? New egg doesn't really have filtering on noise, and I want something real quite, and pretty looking, with an air filter preferably. Again, there seems to be to many options and I really need help narrowing it down. The motherboard, processor and memory were easy to select.

5. Anyone got a good suggestion for an SSD for my OS and programs? I'm keeping my data on separate HDs. I figure it will improve performance to have the OS and programs on an SSD, plus its none critical and I can take an image for backup onto one of my HDs. I figure 100-200GB, but I want to maximize the capabilities of the mother board in terms of read/write speed.

6. I need suggestions for high quality, very quite, very pretty fans... typical 2.5" I think, the small regular ones... I would toy with the idea of large fan but I don't think my tower accepts one unless I cut the plexy glass (should I?).

7. Am I missing anything necessary or suggested? lol, I'm rusty and need full review professor!

What I need this machine for, minimum: library of video/music storage and playback, web page development and testing, interface to my 56" LED TV samsung. Potentially game hosting.

What I may use this thing for: I currently have an asus G73S laptop, and suspect this thing should compare to it... but what's your opinion? I mean, I am a computer engineer and I'll use whatever has the most computing power most of the time, maybe my laptop will only be used on trips after this, who knows... how will my desktop compare to my latptop does anyone know?

I use every type of software imaginable and it may or may not be used on this thing depending on how it compares to my laptop: Maya, 3dsMax, some gaming on and off, game level designing, home audio recording studio (I might buy a pro sound card for this thing later), MathCad, Matlab, Wireshark, Access, Apache.... and just a huge huge swath of other programs... just assume if you know of a piece of software then I use it on occasion.

Ant help on any of these items is appreciated.

 

[b0w]

1. No.

2. Why such an expensive board? Unless you want to overclock to 5+ GHz and use 3 graphic cards, an M5Axxx board is more than enough. An alternative would be an Intel platform with a 3570k, but for your described tasks, the FX-8350 is a better choice.

3. My previous card was a Radeon HD 6970, although it's a good card, it's old now, so I wouldn't recommend it. Its current equal is the HD 7870. The GTX 660 isn't bad either. But if you want to spend a bit more, you can get the HD 7950 or GTX 660 Ti. But I can give you a better suggestion, if you tell me what resolution your TV has. Also, what games are we talking about, and do you want to play games by yourself?

4. You have to choose the other components first.

5. I use the Samsung 840 Series. I would say it hast the best price-performance ratio of all SSDs. Alternatively, the new OCZs look good, but I don't have any experience with them.

6. Does your case have a brand or name? It would make it a little easier. Does it have fans already?

7. Not yet

Your notebook is a very good one, but notebooks aren't comparable to desktop PCs, the latter are better at the same price. So your new PC will overpower your notebook easily.

 

[gunslingor]

1. No.

2. Why such an expensive board? Unless you want to overclock to 5+ GHz and use 3 graphic cards, an M5Axxx board is more than enough. An alternative would be an Intel platform with a 3570k, but for your described tasks, the FX-8350 is a better choice.

3. My previous card was a Radeon HD 6970, although it's a good card, it's old now, so I wouldn't recommend it. Its current equal is the HD 7870. The GTX 660 isn't bad either. But if you want to spend a bit more, you can get the HD 7950 or GTX 660 Ti. But I can give you a better suggestion, if you tell me what resolution your TV has. Also, what games are we talking about, and do you want to play games by yourself?

4. You have to choose the other components first.

5. I use the Samsung 840 Series. I would say it hast the best price-performance ratio of all SSDs. Alternatively, the new OCZs look good, but I don't have any experience with them.

6. Does your case have a brand or name? It would make it a little easier. Does it have fans already?

7. Not yet

Your notebook is a very good one, but notebooks aren't comparable to desktop PCs, the latter are better at the same price. So your new PC will overpower your notebook easily.

2. Why such an expensive board: well, this will be my first AMD setup, I'm used to paying a lot more for intel boards, so this one seemed cheap at $200 and it seems to be the best one out there. IN regards to my mother board: I really want the fastest HD read/write, memory, PCI, etc that money can buy (that is, if it stays around $200 =) ). Also, I love precision, metal and high quality.... which I want in this thing. Things I don't need are 3D (which I think this one has, a lot of them seem to), I don't think I need any old PCIe slots (which this has plenty of), I don't need 3 graphics cards but might do 2 eventually (or now if you know of a deal...which is better, 1 top of the line or two in the middle... this graphics card thing is going to come down to an arbitrary decision if I'm not careful, there's to many to choose from! Can someone help narrow it down to, say 50 to choose from for me?). I might OC a bit, but I'm not a major OCer. I think I do want this system to be AMD, only because the price and Intel is probably going out of the desktop business (AMD step in in!! I hope..)

3. pretty sure I want an Nvidia chipset.... I've had problems with radeons that they never fixed years later, particularly when using 3d design software, but that was on an intel board/cpu. Games: hmm, right now killing floor easy piecey... but I play other stuff, fallout, LFD, bioshock and any cool sci fi non-monthly games I can find...just assume the most graphics intense games on the market, for the next 2 years; I do play, on/off throughout the year but sometimes for many hours straight. TV: according to ebay 1920x1080 pixels... here's the model number of the TV fyi UN46ES6003F.

6. Yeah, the case is a Lian Li. Couldn't find the model on it but it looks very similar to this, but older with 2 small fans in the front instead of one large: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112099. I am considering getting a new case, but what the hell will I do with the old one? Is ebay an option for the stuff coming out of the case? Top of the line intel pentium 4 system =). I mean, could I even sell say a top of the line 5 years ago PC on ebay? Would I get any money for it? If I could sell the case for maybe $40, I might get a new case.

God, to many choices, I miss the old days =).

 

[b0w]

2. You won't notice any difference between the Crosshair and an M5Axxx, which costs just half of the price. It's only measurable. The Crosshair is meant for extreme overclockers, who have 3- or 4-way SLI/Crossfire cards. It would be just overpowered for your needs, but if you like it, there's nothing to be said against it.

3. I have been using Radeons for many years, never had a problem. I study mechanical engineering and every program, like AutoCAD or ProE, works fine. There are programs in which a Radeon performs better and there are ones in which a GTX perform better. They are pretty much equal and you can take the one you like more.
Since you want 50 cards to choose from, here is a nice ranking:
http://www.pc-erfahrung.de/grafikkarte/vga-grafikrangliste.html
It's German, but it's well arranged. It's just to see how to compare each GPU to the others. From the rank 8 downwards they are within your price range. Also note the GPUs below Radeon HD 7xxx or GTX 6xx are easily to get used on ebay at a much lower price. I'd still recommend you the newer ones, since you want to be up-to-date in the next time. I'd say the ranks 8-15 would be perfect for you. You should take only one first, then upgrade an other one later, if you'll need it.

4. We can slowly narrow down the choice of power supplies. I'd say a good one with 750W is more than enough, so you'll have room for other components in the future. Or 850W if you plan to get another card for SLI/Crossfire later. What is your budget on a PSU?

6. This one by any chance?
http://www.lian-li.com/v2/en/product/product06.php?pr_index=326&cl_index=1&sc_index=38&ss_index=96
If not, you could search their site, you'll may find it.
You can either keep it and rebuild it, that's no problem, since Lian Li cases are of high quality. Or you can sell it, then you'll get a few bucks, but don't expect too much. Your 40$ sounds realistic.

 

[gunslingor]

2. Also looking at this "military" class one, seems to be slightly higher quality:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128509
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130649
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131877
what's your opinion?

3. Sweet thanks! good listing.

4. I have no budget =), got a good job now... I mean, PSs are pretty cheap right, like say $150? But my last PC was too loud so I want super quite...

6. Yeah, that's it! Its a good case and not worth the shipping I guess, so I'll rebuild it. But wait, it doesn't look like it has double bays.. does that limit my graphics card choices?

 

[b0w]

2. They're alle of good quality and are among the leading brands, you won't do anything wrong when you pick either of them. Just take your freedom to take the one which suits your taste the best

4. Yes, that's what a good 800W+ PSU costs. It depends on the efficiency though. If you want exceptional quality, you can get one with an 80+ Platinum certificate from Seasonic or Enermax. Otherwise, you should look it has at least 80+ Bronze. Other good brands are Corsair, Cooler Master, Thermaltake, Antec, Aerocool, Be Quiet!, Lian Li, OCZ and Silverstone. But it depends on the exact model and there are more.

6. Yes and you can change it later if you're not happy. I don't know how your skills are, but you could consider cutting a hole for an other rear fan. Just under the rear fan where the free space is.

7. You should get an alternative CPU cooler, since the stock ones are really bad. There are many good ones, but let's settle for the other components first.

 

[gunslingor]

Alright, thanks. I'll try to finish the selection and come back in a bit.

 

[gunslingor]

Allright, I think I've got something, let me know what you think.. anything missing? I think I'll take my two optical disks out of my old pc, with the HDDs... I still need to pick a SSD. I love the case (the one from corsair is better but $350)... how do you think the blue heat sink will affect the red lighting, wish they made these changable colors bastards!

SAPPHIRE 100352-3L Radeon HD 7950 3GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card $309.99

AMD Tomb Raider - Level up
Item #:N82E16800995164
Return Policy: VGA Standard Return Policy....FREE (WTF is it?)

AMD Gift FARCRY3 Blood Dragon CRYSIS3 BIOSHOCK
Item #:N82E16800995145
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy $119.99...Really FREE (Sweat, dont have to buy games for a year)

ASUS SABERTOOTH 990FX R2.0 AM3+ AMD 990FX SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard with UEFI BIOS$179.99

G.SKILL Ripjaws Z Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1866 (PC3 14900) Desktop Memory Model F3-14900CL8Q-16GBZM... looks like great latency for the price.$154.99

ZALMAN CNPS12X 120mm Long Life Bearing High Performance Triple Fan CPU Cooler$99.99

COOLER MASTER Silent Pro M2 RS850-SPM2D3-US 850W ATX 12V V2.3 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS SILVER Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply $159.99

AMD FX-8350 Vishera 4.0GHz (4.2GHz Turbo) Socket AM3+ 125W Eight-Core Desktop Processor FD8350FRHKBOX

Rosewill BLACKHAWK-ULTRA Gaming Super Tower Computer Case, support up to HPTX, come with Eight Fans,Top HDD docking - Retail Combo with the processor....$364.98

Add combo to cart
Grand Total: $1,269.93

If I do decide to OC, what speeds could I get with this setup... if I instead went water cooled, what speeds would I get. How bought that Ram? Looks like a great deal to me, it only goes to 1866 but you can still OC it right? Well... just let me know your thoughts.

 

[b0w]

Looks quite good, the price is not bad for an almost new high end system.

I still need to pick a SSD

I've given you a recommendation, now you have to pick the size. You can also choose an other brand, Crucial, Patriot, Corsair, Sandisk, Kingston are good brands, too. But look for newer models.

how do you think the blue heat sink will affect the red lighting, wish they made these changable colors bastards!

I can say, I have an Enermax Vegas fan, with blue and red switchable LEDs. When they're all on, it looks violet, almost pink. But even if it doesn't matter, with the choosen cooler you might get problems with your memory modules and also they're better coolers for the price.
I'd recommend you the Noctua NH-D14 or the Thermalright SilverArrow SB-E, both would fit well into your system and are among the best air cooled heatsinks. Also the fans are among the best and quietest common fans available and you can change them if you don't like them or add one more if you like them. Or you just get a heatsink without fans, like the Prolimatech Armageddon/Super Mega/Megahalems und buy a fan (or two) you like seperately.

Rosewill BLACKHAWK-ULTRA Gaming Super Tower Computer Case

You might consider fan filters for the two front intake fans to prevent dust going in the case. Btw I hope you are aware the case is a full tower, so it's very big and you have room for it.

COOLER MASTER Silent Pro M2 RS850-SPM2D3-US 850W

For this setup plus overclocking it's definitely enough. But if you wish to add another graphic card and other components later and now that I see the whole system, you'll maybe want to grab a Seasonic/Enermax/Corsair with the same wattage (or a bit more, like 900W) or other brands with about 1000W, so you can feel safe.

If I do decide to OC, what speeds could I get with this setup... if I instead went water cooled, what speeds would I get.

Overclocking is not only a matter of the system setup, but mainly a matter of the CPU. You can not gerneralize, since it varies from DIE to DIE (chip), how each one is overclockable. Even if you get the best mainboard it's possible you'll get a CPU you can only overclock by 10%. It's not likely to happen, but that's how it is with all processors. But that's another subject. However, I'd say with the coolers I mentioned above you'll have enough reserves to overclock to 5 GHz theoretically.

How bought that Ram? Looks like a great deal to me, it only goes to 1866 but you can still OC it right?

Yes, you can OC, but the difference between different clock speeds is only measurable, so you won't notice if it's OCed or not. Read this for more information:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/bulldozer-ddr3-overclocking,3209.html
It's for the older Bulldozer architecture, but since the newer Vishera is based on it, it's the same results.

 

[gunslingor]

might get problems with your memory modules

You think its too big and will touch the memory because of the memory fins? Or you mean heat leaking?

Thermalright SilverArrow SB-E

This one I kind of like, but I like the fact that the heat tubes are in direct contact with the processor on the one I selected. Also, the one I selected is just beautiful as hell, the others are nice but the one I selected I view as a beautiful design. Do you really think I'd have problems with the heatsink I selected?

You might consider fan filters for the two front intake fans to prevent dust going in the case. Btw I hope you are aware the case is a full tower, so it's very big and you have room for it.

I do want them, but which are best for this model? Also, does it accept them? Also, I thought I read somewhere that all the fan intakes are covered with a tiny metal mesh that prevents dust.... but even then I'd like filters. I know its big... my last was a full I think and that was pretty big with 6 HDD bays... I think I'll need 10 bays and the super towers are made for geeks, super high quality... so I can handle the size for those trade offs.

For this setup plus overclocking it's definitely enough. But if you wish to add another graphic card and other components later and now that I see the whole system, you'll maybe want to grab a Seasonic/Enermax/Corsair with the same wattage (or a bit more, like 900W) or other brands with about 1000W, so you can feel safe.

If I remember correctly, I'm pretty sure this thing can accept a second PS, so I'm not too too worried about it.


Thanks for the article reference, pretty interesting. The RAM i selected is there, but I guess mine is newer cause it states a rated latency of 8 but the article says 9.

 

[b0w]

might get problems with your memory modules

You think its too big and will touch the memory because of the memory fins? Or you mean heat leaking?

Thermalright SilverArrow SB-E

This one I kind of like, but I like the fact that the heat tubes are in direct contact with the processor on the one I selected. Also, the one I selected is just beautiful as hell, the others are nice but the one I selected I view as a beautiful design. Do you really think I'd have problems with the heatsink I selected?

Zalman products have always been extravagant, what has its advantages, like the look, but also disadvantages, like compatibility. It could fit, but I'm not sure, that's why I said you might get problems. Here's the technical drawing:

It could still fit, but I doubt it. I think the fins would be in its way, at least the first one for sure. The only way to find it out is to try it out.
The good thing about detachable fans is you can rearrange them like you want or buy thinner ones.

You might consider fan filters for the two front intake fans to prevent dust going in the case. Btw I hope you are aware the case is a full tower, so it's very big and you have room for it.

I do want them, but which are best for this model? Also, does it accept them? Also, I thought I read somewhere that all the fan intakes are covered with a tiny metal mesh that prevents dust.... but even then I'd like filters.

The best ones are "Demciflex" filters. I use them myself and included them in builds I made for others. They're magnetic and if your case isn't ferrous, they include a magnet tape. I'm sure you can remove the front enclosure and put the filters there. The big drawback is, they don't sell them everywhere.
These look good, too. I don't use them, but they have mounting holes, so they're a bit more flexible.
http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=394&area=en
But you can drill or cut holes easily in the Demciflex filters too.
Be sure however to put filters only at intake fans.

If I remember correctly, I'm pretty sure this thing can accept a second PS, so I'm not too too worried about it.

Well, then it's no problem.

Thanks for the article reference, pretty interesting. The RAM i selected is there, but I guess mine is newer cause it states a rated latency of 8 but the article says 9.

Yes, but the latencies are influencing the speeds even less. The difference betveen 8 and 9 is like your Windows will start in 41,1 seconds instead of 41,2 seconds

 

[gunslingor]

It could still fit, but I doubt it. I think the fins would be in its way, at least the first one for sure. The only way to find it out is to try it out.

Or to turn to the ridiculously large swath of searchable data called the internet, speak korean?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnykQfCA5kc
5 minutes in

The best ones are "Demciflex" filters.

check this out, like the disney of demci... so many options, even custom: http://www.demcifilter.com/

Yes, but the latencies are influencing the speeds even less. The difference between 8 and 9 is like your Windows will start in 41,1 seconds instead of 41,2 seconds

I believe that could be true in a boot situation, but Cas latency is pretty much a voltage response delay, and the longer a request goes without a response the more CPU cycles go buy; so its likely to make a big difference in situations where your not just streaming data in or out with just one or two commands but instead randomly writing and reading (like moving a library from one HDD to another while playing a game and letting some complicate number generators run amok). so a drop from 9 to 8, yeah, that's +10% benefit in high access situations... from my perspective, I could be wrong, but I am a CE so I got that going for me =).

 

[b0w]

It could still fit, but I doubt it. I think the fins would be in its way, at least the first one for sure. The only way to find it out is to try it out.

Or to turn to the ridiculously large swath of searchable data called the internet, speak korean?

Unfortunately not. But that cooler they are showing is an other one:

You see, the difference in the depth is 38mm, that's 19mm at each side. When you pause the video at 6:15, you'll get a good view.
Now imagine two more centimetres of material - a close-run thing.

The best ones are "Demciflex" filters.

check this out, like the disney of demci... so many options, even custom: http://www.demcifilter.com/

Yeah, that's them, it's their official site btw As you see, there is a wide choice of products and it's cheaper than retail, but one big downside: their headquarters are in South Africa where they ship their items from. I ordered a big filter 8 days ago, still no sign of it. So if you can wait, don't hesitate to order at their site, if not, you should find a retailer.

where your not just streaming data in or out with just one or two commands but instead randomly writing and reading

That's why it's called Random Access Memory A boot is random data, too. I don't think you'll get in a situation with a constant data stream. It depends on the CPU, too.

so a drop from 9 to 8, yeah, that's +10% benefit in high access situations

Theoretically, yes. But like you surely experienced often enough, the praxis is different Since AMD depends more on RAM as Intel, a difference between 9-9-9-24 and 7-7-7-20 would may be a bit noticable, but you wouldn't notice a difference between 8-9-9-24 and 9-9-9-24.

 

[gunslingor]

It could still fit, but I doubt it. I think the fins would be in its way, at least the first one for sure. The only way to find it out is to try it out.

Or to turn to the ridiculously large swath of searchable data called the internet, speak korean?

Unfortunately not. But that cooler they are showing is an other one:

You see, the difference in the depth is 38mm, that's 19mm at each side. When you pause the video at 6:15, you'll get a good view.
Now imagine two more centimetres of material - a close-run thing.

The best ones are "Demciflex" filters.

check this out, like the disney of demci... so many options, even custom: http://www.demcifilter.com/

Yeah, that's them, it's their official site btw As you see, there is a wide choice of products and it's cheaper than retail, but one big downside: their headquarters are in South Africa where they ship their items from. I ordered a big filter 8 days ago, still no sign of it. So if you can wait, don't hesitate to order at their site, if not, you should find a retailer.

where your not just streaming data in or out with just one or two commands but instead randomly writing and reading

That's why it's called Random Access Memory A boot is random data, too. I don't think you'll get in a situation with a constant data stream. It depends on the CPU, too.

so a drop from 9 to 8, yeah, that's +10% benefit in high access situations

Theoretically, yes. But like you surely experienced often enough, the praxis is different Since AMD depends more on RAM as Intel, a difference between 9-9-9-24 and 7-7-7-20 would may be a bit noticable, but you wouldn't notice a difference between 8-9-9-24 and 9-9-9-24.

True dat. Couple more questions:

1. Which way does the graphics card pull air, out the back right? Does some of it leak back into the case?
2. I'm still not sure about the graphics card, its pretty nice and seems like a good deal with mostly good reviews, but is it the best deal?
3. "is very large, and heavy, and bulky, and i had a job to fit it into my nzxt full tower case, with the optional 200mm side fan in place, i also had to remove the cooling fins of my ripsaw memory as the memory blades stopped the fan from working, my mobo is a asus sabertooth 990fx with 16gig memory, running an AMD 8150 8 core bulldozer cpu"-->http://www.ebuyer.com/348998-zalman-cnps12x-ultimate-performance-triple-fan-cpu-cooler-cnps12x

That looks like your right... dam I'm pissed, that was the item I liked the most out of the selection... guess I'll probably have to settle for your recommendation =( =).

EDIT: Found this, well... looked more closely at it. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835709002
I think this is a good second choice, the blue anodized metal adds something to it. The Nocturn is slightly better quality on the fins I think, but those pink fans are ugly! ... Or Thermalright Silver Arrow, lol.

Yes, the thermalright seems to be top dog, shame newegg doesnt sell it. Very nice indeed.

 

[b0w]

1. The graphic card gets its air from the inner case. Since there is nothing more below it and the PSU is a closed circle (but only when you place it with the fan pointing down) and your case has a good airflow, it gets nicely cold, fresh air. Especially the side fan blows fresh air directly at the card.
A small amount of heated air (heaten by the card) will go directly outside through the venting holes. But most of it will go up in the caseand that applies on every card with top blowing axial fans. But that's why there are case fans and your case will handle it with ease, thanks to its massive airflow.
The first alternative is a radial fan design, like this:

With such coolers most of the air is carried out directly, but it has a big downside and that's why almost nobody uses them: they're loud as hell, there are vacuum cleaners which are more quiet.
The second alternative is water cooling, but I don't recommend it, it's not worth the money and effort.
I don't think you will, but if you're really unsatisfied with the airflow and temperatures, you can buy this one later:
http://www.arctic.ac/en/p/cooling/vga/589/accelero-hybrid-7970.html?c=2182

2. I'd say, yes. The card you've selected has Boost, too.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-card-review,3107-4.html
The equal nVidia card in the same performance class is the GTX 670, you can look at it.

3. That's especially a problem for AMD platforms, since the RAM banks are a bit nearer to the CPU.
Phanteks coolers are good, too, they're also available in many colors. But their fans are slightly louder than Thermalright's or Noctua's.

The Silver Arrow is sold on amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Thermalright-Silver-Arrow-SB-E-Universal/dp/B007BO0VEI/ref=pd_rhf_cr_p_t_2_C0FZ

The Noctua fans aren't pink lol, it's brown-reddish. It's also cheaper on amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Noctua-Heatpipe-Bearing-Cooler-NH-D14/dp/B002VKVZ1A/ref=pd_cp_pc_0
Btw look at the ratings, 167 votes and 5 stars, that's quite impressive.

If you want exceptional quality, there is no way around Noctua or Thermalright. But other coolers perform well, too.

 

[gunslingor]

1. The graphic card gets its air from the inner case. Since there is nothing more below it and the PSU is a closed circle (but only when you place it with the fan pointing down) and your case has a good airflow, it gets nicely cold, fresh air. Especially the side fan blows fresh air directly at the card.
A small amount of heated air (heaten by the card) will go directly outside through the venting holes. But most of it will go up in the caseand that applies on every card with top blowing axial fans. But that's why there are case fans and your case will handle it with ease, thanks to its massive airflow.
The first alternative is a radial fan design, like this:

With such coolers most of the air is carried out directly, but it has a big downside and that's why almost nobody uses them: they're loud as hell, there are vacuum cleaners which are more quiet.
The second alternative is water cooling, but I don't recommend it, it's not worth the money and effort.
I don't think you will, but if you're really unsatisfied with the airflow and temperatures, you can buy this one later:
http://www.arctic.ac/en/p/cooling/vga/589/accelero-hybrid-7970.html?c=2182

2. I'd say, yes. The card you've selected has Boost, too.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-card-review,3107-4.html
The equal nVidia card in the same performance class is the GTX 670, you can look at it.

3. That's especially a problem for AMD platforms, since the RAM banks are a bit nearer to the CPU.
Phanteks coolers are good, too, they're also available in many colors. But their fans are slightly louder than Thermalright's or Noctua's.

The Silver Arrow is sold on amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Thermalright-Silver-Arrow-SB-E-Universal/dp/B007BO0VEI/ref=pd_rhf_cr_p_t_2_C0FZ

The Noctua fans aren't pink lol, it's brown-reddish. It's also cheaper on amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Noctua-Heatpipe-Bearing-Cooler-NH-D14/dp/B002VKVZ1A/ref=pd_cp_pc_0
Btw look at the ratings, 167 votes and 5 stars, that's quite impressive.

If you want exceptional quality, there is no way around Noctua or Thermalright. But other coolers perform well, too.

Great, thanks for all the info. I guess I won't worry about airflow that around the card that much, the case has the 230mm fan blowing right on it from the side. I guess I'll stick with my graphics card, I think it should be fine with updated drivers.

3. I think I'm sold on the thermalright SB-E Extreme. Its lowest noise level is only 1db above the SB-E, but it can spin like 3 x the RPM.

Also think was thinking I'll buy this controller: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=11-999-243&SortField=0&SummaryType=0&Pagesize=10&PurchaseMark=&SelectedRating=4&VideoOnlyMark=False&VendorMark=&IsFeedbackTab=true&Keywords=%28keywords%29#scrollFullInfo

But the reviews are mixed: only 1/2 speed to full speed control only, no Y connections work. My case seems to have a couple fan hubs of sort, towards the back of the hard drive bays, both top and bottom. Will these allow me to control multiple fans on one channel with this thing? From an interface and aesthetics perspective, this is the best controller I found... but maybe not on functionality. What's your recommendation for a controller? Also, what's your recommended configuration? I was thinking my goal should be the chassis fans:
chn1 - all 4 HDD fans (intake)
chn2 - all bottom fans (intake)
chn3 - all back fans (out)
chn4- all top fans (out)
chn5-all side fans (in for now, may do in/out later)
Is that achievable or do you have a better recommendation? Can you confirm that my CPU fans should NOT be controlled by this thing but instead let the board decide?

A. One final question I hope: these demci filters, what color should I get? I'm thinking black for the the seal and, what, whit or black for the mesh? I toyed with the idea of red seals/magnets, but think this might look odd, particularly when powered off.

 

[gunslingor]

I couldn't wait any longer grueling over the best components, I had to act =). Here she blows!

1 x ($289.99) SAPPHIRE 100352-3L Radeon HD 7950 3GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card
$289.99

1 x ($207.99) Corsair Force Series GS CSSD-F240GBGS-BK 2.5" 240GB SATA III Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
$207.99

1 x ($199.99) AMD FX-8350 Vishera 4.0GHz (4.2GHz Turbo) Socket AM3+ 125W Eight-Core Desktop Processor FD8350FRHKBOX
$199.99

1 x ($179.99) ASUS SABERTOOTH 990FX R2.0 AM3+ AMD 990FX SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard with UEFI BIOS
$179.99

1 x ($159.99) COOLER MASTER Silent Pro M2 RS850-SPM2D3-US 850W ATX 12V V2.3 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS SILVER Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply
$159.99

1 x ($154.99) G.SKILL Ripjaws Z Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1866 (PC3 14900) Desktop Memory Model F3-14900CL8Q-16GBZM
$154.99

1 x ($119.99) AMD Gift FARCRY3 Blood Dragon CRYSIS3 BIOSHOCK
$119.99

1 x ($49.99) AMD Tomb Raider - Level up
$49.99

1 x ($29.99) Noctua NF-A14 FLX 140mm Case Fan
$29.99

1 x ($-25.00) DISCOUNT FOR COMBO #1323372
$-25.00

1 x ($-100.00) Redeem GC 7307720814899687
$-100.00

1 x ($-169.98) DISCOUNT FOR AUTOADD #83409
$-169.98

Subtotal: $1097.93
Tax: $0.00
Shipping and Handling: $5.81
Total Amount: $1103.74

________________________________________________________________

1 x ($179.99) Rosewill BLACKHAWK-ULTRA Gaming Super Tower Computer Case, support up to HPTX, come with Eight Fans,Top HDD docking
$179.99

Subtotal: $179.99
Tax: $0.00
Shipping and Handling: $7.99
Total Amount: $187.98

__________________________________________________

bus-348 Lamptron CW611 36W - 6 Channel Aluminum Liquid Cooling Controller - Black (CW611) 1 $99.99 $99.99
Item Total: $99.99
Shipping: $9.76
Tax: $0.00
Grand Total: $109.75

_________________________________________

Thermalright SILVER ARROW SB-E EXTREME CPU Cooler for Intel LGA 2011/1155/1156/1366/775 & AMD Socket
FM1/AM3+/AM3/AM2+/AM2
FAN-ARROWE $87.99 $87.99
Sub Total $87.99
Tax $0.00
Total $87.99

TOTAL CHARGED FOR THE MONSTER: 1489.46
Only the filters remain =).

 

[b0w]

Sorry I didn't reply earlier, but I wasn't at home for the weekend.

But I see you got along well. Good job!

The Force GS isn't one of the best SSDs, but it's an SSD and it's pretty fast though. Also it seems reliable. Just out of curiosity, why did you choose right this model?

I think the fan controller is too much, you won't need the water cooling functions, the Aerocool one would have been enough for your system. But then, you are equiped if you consider to get a water cooling system.

One final question I hope: these demci filters, what color should I get? I'm thinking black for the the seal and, what, whit or black for the mesh? I toyed with the idea of red seals/magnets, but think this might look odd, particularly when powered off.

If you haven't ordered them yet, if I were you, I would take definitely the black mesh, so you won't notice it. I wouldn't like to see a white thing shining through a black and red case.
But on the other hand I would like a red thing shining through. Also, if you wouldn't like it, you could apply a black duct tape on it so you wouldn't notice it. That's your decision.
As for the size, I would pick a 140x280mm filter for the front fans. And either a small filter for the side fan or a big one for the whole mesh.

Btw have you ordered everything else already?

 

[gunslingor]

All the above is order, should be arriving real soon. Interesting idea on covering the entire side mesh, haven't considered that, I'll think about that.

Why did I pick that SSD... good question, hard to remember, lol. I used the filters on newegg, I think I filtered on SATA III, 200-250GB, maybe something else (probably 10 MFRs in power search). I seem light the most arbitrary. decision I had to make.

The fan controller is overkill, but I like over engineering. I don't think I really like the interface, I'd prefer to have all the fan speeds/temps shown all the time, I don't think I'd want to cycle a list to see/set things. But to get some automated functions (like increasing fan speed on temp alarm, or to have a temp alarm to begin with) there aren't many that I like. I'm considering returning it and getting two of these (but I don't think it has alarms/responses):
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/11435/bus-230/Lamptron_30W_-_4_Channel_Aluminum_Rheobus_w_Multi_Color_Backlit_LED_-_Version_2_-_Black_FC-5V2_w_Brighter_Display.html?tl=g47c17s286

Yeah, I couldn't find a fan controller that I really liked... maybe you can, here's what I was looking for:
1. 5-6 channels min.
2. 25 watts per channel min.
3. alarms/responses
4. polished metal faceplate.
5. knobs rock!
6. displays each channel individually without using a list to cycle.

It was a toss up between the first one I selected and this one... I guess I choose this one because it had better caps and higher power, 1 more channel, and all the utube videos of the first one I selected had the thing constantly beeping at the user. Let me know if you know of something better... I think I might just use whatever for the next few months and build my own from scratch... they seem like real simple devices.

I was having a little buyers remorse, before anything even arrived lol, considering the entire platform... I was wondering if I should have just gone with intel... probably would have spent another 300-500 bucks though. Did you see this:http://promotions.newegg.com/Intel/13-2142/index.html

Intel just released more chips last week I think, fast to arrive on newegg. I'm wondering if I should have gotten this instead... not sure... I suspect the FS processor will run 25% slower than these minimum.... but all of these have that crappy integrated graphics chip.

All things considered, correct me if I'm wrong, I probably wouldn't have gotten one of these new chips anyway and would have instead opted for one of these? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116501

Would I have been wrong? I mean, the new chips are a newer architecture (good) but probably designed for freaking cellphones and tablets (integrated graphics)... bastards!

Crap, another question I couldn't really find a definitive answer to: the processor I bought, how many freaking bits is it? Is this an 8bit processor? I read that somewhere. Should I get a 64 or 32 bit OS? ... I'm also debating on what OS to put on this thing to make it run the best, seems like windows 8 will run the best (less resources need by OS, also updated scheduler I hear)... but again, dam MS is trying to make one OS for everything and I think Win8 will really really suck unless I dish our 1000$ for a bunch of touch screens. So I'm considering Ubuntu, but which will operate best with the 8 core processor?

 

[b0w]

The problem with fan controllers with displays is, afaik it's not possible to make Y-connections, since a channel can't measure two fan speeds, but show only one. Even if it's exactly the same fan it has different speeds at the same voltage. Maybe there are such controllers, I'm not sure, but you have to look for them. I only had a voltage controlled one, but now I let the mainboard control my fans, since it's much more comfortable for me. Fan controllers are a nice gimmick, but you don't really need them.
Also check these out:
http://www.nzxt.com/category/products/10-fan-control
If you don't want to build in a card reader, there's also the possibility to build in two fan controllers.
I didn't answer one question. I would let the CPU fans be PWM controlled by the mainboard, in that way they surely can run slower than hooked up to a controller.

I'm wondering if I should have gotten this instead... not sure... I suspect the FS processor will run 25% slower than these minimum

It's not that bad, it depends on the application. Compare by yourself:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-i7-4770k-haswell-review,3521.html
But note that most of the programs they used for benchmarking are Intel optimized and/or single threaded. Believe me, you'll be satisfied and wouldn't notice a difference between an FX and an Ivy Bridge or a Haswell. I didn't notice much of a difference between my current i5-3570k and my older Phenom II X6 as well. While working in Windows, sometimes I even have a feeling the Phenom was better, because of its two more cores (although I have to admit I haven't overclocked my i5 yet). Also, compared to Intel, AMD doesn't constantly change its sockets, so it's probable you can just change the FX-8350 for a next-generation CPU. After all, 8 real cores are better than 8 virtual ones, especially for your described tasks.

but all of these have that crappy integrated graphics chip.

That doesn't mean you have to use it

Would I have been wrong? I mean, the new chips are a newer architecture (good) but probably designed for freaking cellphones and tablets (integrated graphics)... bastards!

If you read the review, you have seen, Haswell isn't much of an improvement, only for mobile devices. But it's still a bit better.

Crap, another question I couldn't really find a definitive answer to: the processor I bought, how many freaking bits is it? Is this an 8bit processor? I read that somewhere.

I don't know what exactly you mean, but afaik every newer desktop processor is x86 (32-bit) based and can run every OS, also 64-bit. The only difference I know about are ARM based CPUs which can only run ARM based OS's.
Definitely go for a 64bit system or else you would have bought 16GB of RAM for nothing, since only about 3GB are being used then.
Windows 8 is better in many points compared to 7, but not in the interface and handling, at least for desktop PCs. MS wants to change it significantly with the next upgrade in July. At the moment I'm pleased with 7. Linux works well with multicore CPUs, too. You could make a multi boot system with Windows (7 or 8 or both) for games and Windows-exclusive programs and Ubuntu for working. You'll find out what's better by yourself.

 

[gunslingor]

The problem with fan controllers

afaik, Y-connections would imply a parallel connection but I think your typically supposed to use a series connection. From what I read (including circuit diagrams of fan speed controllers) You can hook up multiple fans in series so long as the total power consumption doesn't exceed the source... your right though, the tachometer reading will only occur for the 1st fan in the series.

Also, compared to Intel, AMD doesn't constantly change its sockets, so it's probable you can just change the FX-8350 for a next-generation CPU.

Yeah, that's a real plus... I also hear intel is switching to soldered on chips.... bastards being greedy trying to limit peoples options and sell more mobos.

After all, 8 real cores are better than 8 virtual ones, especially for your described tasks.

-Yeah, true in general... but a lot comes down to how the processors are scheduled. I remember this from college, 2 cores with a inadequate scheduler can actual run a lot slower than a single core. I keep hearing things like "few programs are optimized to run on 4 cores let alone 8". I'd like to be able to both automatically and manually schedule my cores... So If for example I'm moving 1TB of data from one drive to another, I'd like to be able to assign that process to one dedicated core so the others are unaffected (i.e. aren't constantly trying to schedule it in a more hyperthread type fassion, which requires a lot more kernal calls) and continue in automatic mode. I haven't seen anything that can do this yet, but I'm just starting the research and suspect something along these lines will be possible with the new task manager in win8... basically I'd like an OS that at least provides some kind of interface to the processor scheduler.

That doesn't mean you have to use it

True, but I still have to pay for it =). Looks like they could have fit an extra 2 cores in that space instead of the graphics card. All these companies are pushing so hard for all-in-ones, tablets and touch screens because they are a lot cheaper to make and they are still viewed as "cutting edge", even though the MFR processes are all in place and, thus, are really really cheap to make... Towers will always be expensive to MFR, especially good ones.

If you read the review, you have seen, Haswell isn't much of an improvement, only for mobile devices.

Thats the impression I got, bastardos!

I don't know what exactly you mean, but afaik every newer desktop processor is x86 (32-bit) based and can run every OS, also 64-bit. The only difference I know about are ARM based CPUs which can only run ARM based OS's.
Definitely go for a 64bit system or else you would have bought 16GB of RAM for nothing, since only about 3GB are being used then.

When they say 8/16/32/64-bit processor, it defines the size of the registers, memory, etc. so to add two numbers, say 1+2, the addition registers (also used for other stuff) of the processor will look like this:
8bit: 00000001+00000010
16bit:0000000000000001+0000000000000010
etc...

Every number value used by a processor will generally be 8/16/32/etc bits of data, but it varies a lot regardless of the platform. An 8-bit processor can usually still handle 64 bit values... but obviously it will be slower at it since it has to process 8-bits, then the next 8 bits, and so on until it processes all 64 bits... then it has to combine all these values... where as a 64 bit system wouldn't have to do any of this and clock cycles will be much less (i.e. higher thru put for higher precision numbers).

Traditionally speaking, its never a good idea to have the software treat a 32-bit processor like a 64-bit processor (specifically in regards to your comment recommending that I get a 64 bit OS... this is why photoshop is offered in both 64 and 32 bit versions... optimized for the processor its running on). The reason is minimum register size (8/16/etc... i.e. register size=min register size). The reasons are highly technical and vary from system to system, but to take an example: say you have a 32-bit processor with a 64 bit OS... the OS was designed for 64 bit processors, which provides higher fidelity for processed machine code. So all the OS machine code is going to be using 64-bit numbers whenever it can (to take advantage of the higher fidelity), where as a 32-bit OS would avoid 64 bit values unless the fidelity is truely needed. I.e. a 64-bit OS will have more 64-bit values in the underlying machine code... but processing 64 bits with a 32 bit processor would be at least 3 times slower than 32 on a 32, or 64 on a 64.... and there are more of them since the OS was designed for 64 bits, so it should run a lot slower.

I don't know if its even possible to get a 64 bit OS on a 32 bit system, it certainly wasn't the intent of the designers. Now you could use 32bit software on a 64 bit system and it will run faster than it would on a 32bit system, assuming high fidelity isn't needed. That's because the registers can load two 32-bit values from the RAM into one 64 bit register, and process those values in parallel. So, in general, if you are using high precision numbers (e.g. recording software), its best to use a completely 64-bit system. If you want the next tick up in speed, get a 64-bit system and run 32-bit software on it.

Now you mentioned that 32-bit OSs have limited RAM capability (which I think I hear before... but thought it was 8GB not 3, will check later) and that they are making 32-bit processors that work with 64 bit systems. If both of these are true, then it wouldn't surprise me, but in effect they are likely sacrificing processing power for the ability to add more RAM in a less direct fashion... Yeah, it has to be 8GB limit on 32 bit systems... that's how the math works out because 32-bit numbers will be able to address 2,147,483,647 RAM (2GB) memory sectors per RAM slot address... 2GB x 4 slots =8GB. But again, there is a reason this limit was set long long ago in a galaxy far far away. This is because, traditionally, if you have 8GB of address space and 16GB of addresses... well... do you know?.... every time you access ANY RAM data, your going to have to use a minimum of 3 clock cycles to process the first address part, then the second, then combine them and send the request to the RAM (perhaps sending one, then the other... not sure). Whereas a 64bit system can inherently access more addresses spaces with less clock ticks. So my question to MS would be, if your designing 64-bit OSs for 32-bit processors, how are they handling the address space? It is possible (from book theory) to design a system that, for example, the first 8GB of memory is addressed with a 32-bit number and the remaining with a 64 bit number (so that at least a good chunk of your RAM accesses are optimized... which are also the most commonly used sectors)... Now I could be wrong, they might have optimized this even further a long time ago... so perhaps the 1st 2 RAM addresses are accessed with 1-bit (allowing the multibit processor to process multple memory requests in parallel) ... the next, what, 4 bits are accessed with 2 bits, etc..... but they usually requires more kernal calls to determine how to process each request and as you can see, its a fine balancing game... I wish I could find the data to explan how it was actually design. EDIT: I'm starting to think that it may not be such a critical subject on multicore systems... I mean, 8 cores... even if each core is a meager 8-bit processor, that could still theoretically be 8-bits on 8 cores = 64-bits being processed in parallel (plus additional combing operations).... but it al comes down to how they decided to design the hardware, how the 3rd party vendors designed for or ignored the subject, and how MS decided to deal with... Wish I could figure it out, but this data seems hidden.

This is mostly based on my college education and everything I read about 64-bit OSs seems to confirm it.

Thanks for the info bro.... My parts are starting to arrive... I'll post something when I get this biotch bioult!


EDIT: Example showing why I'm concerned about the OS I select, the scheduler and all these issues (regarding the older FX series):
"The Tom's Hardware website commented that the lower-than-expected performance in multi-threaded workloads may be because of the way Windows 7 currently schedules threads to the cores. They point out that "if Windows were able to utilize an FX-8150's four modules first, and then backfill each module's second core, it'd maximize performance with up to four threads running concurrently." This is similar to what happens on Intel CPUs with HyperThreading – Windows 7 "schedules to physical cores before utilizing logical (HyperThreaded) cores."[33]"
-From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulldozer_%28microarchitecture%29

 

[b0w]

No pro, bro

Does the memory controller width have something to do with it?
http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/processors/amdfx/pages/amdfx-model-number-comparison.aspx

"It is a common misconception that 32-bit processors and operating systems are limited to 4 GB (232 bytes) of RAM"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3_GB_barrier

Enjoy the building.

 

[gunslingor]

No pro, bro

Does the memory controller width have something to do with it?
http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/processors/amdfx/pages/amdfx-model-number-comparison.aspx

"It is a common misconception that 32-bit processors and operating systems are limited to 4 GB (232 bytes) of RAM"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3_GB_barrier

Enjoy the building.

I think the memory controller bus width is the number of parallel lines running to the RAM array's address inputs... so the link you sent says 128-bit memory bus. I think that implies you need 64 bits to access a row, and 64-bits to access a column. Or perhaps it means AMD designed it for 128-bit OSs if they ever come out (yeah, I think this is probably more likely). i.e. it can access a WHOLE LOT more RAM if 128 OS ever come out... but if they designed it ideally, perhaps it'll operate 2x as fast as a 64-bit memory bus... I'm just theorizing, not really sure.... it could be 128 instead of 64 because of the DDR functionality.

Good article: http://lifehacker.com/5431284/the-lifehacker-guide-to-64+bit-vs-32+bit-operating-systems

The second link you sent: read after the sentence you quoted, where they seem to talk about special hardware inside the processor for accessing high quantities of memory with tiny-bit processors. In other words, yes, 100% doable if you design the hardware right (you can really do anything you want on the wafer), however, these added circuits eat into power consumption, clock speed and other compromises. I suspect OSs can do the same thing in software rather than hardware (read link I sent) but at the cost of more clock cycles. So, in designing the ideally optimized processor, its always best to keep the memory limit tied to the memory address register's bit length to maintain maximum speeds.

Yeah, its definitely gotten more complicated with the advent of multi cores... the important thing is that the processor "Supports 64-bit=Yes". As long as that variable is yes, I can reasonably assume that they designed the scheduler and 32/64 bit controls adequately.

I have a service call into AMD to determine what the FX processor register size is, If I know that I can answer a lot of these questions myself. I think its very possible all these chip MFRs don't want us to know this... probably because 64-bit=good, but the laymen doesn't understand the difference between a single 64-bit core and 8 8-bit cores.... I suspect the register size in each core is probably 8-32 bits....if its on the low end, the cores are likely working more closely together on single tasks... if its on the high end, one core would be operating on each task (assuming 32 bit OS/software... if 64 bit, then likely two cores will be working on one task).. since you see how dynamic these things can be, it wouldn't surprise me if each core is only 8 bits... which I wouldn't like... hopefully each is 32!

 

[gunslingor]

Good news! I think I found the answer I was looking for... background:

YOU WANT TECHNICAL DATA, I'll give you technical data:
http://support.amd.com/br/Processor_TechDocs/42301_15h_Mod_00h-0Fh_BKDG.pdf

But the gist is here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86-64#Operating_modes

Basically it looks like each core is 64-bit for the most part, or at a minimum each processor pair is 64-bit (can't tell which yet, but fine with both). It also appears to be highly dynamically designed. So all the 64-bit registers will operate like (1 or 2[if designed right])x32bit registers when running 32-bit software...

 

[b0w]

Damn, that's a tome. I hope you're not angry when I'm not reading it But I'm glad you found what you've searched for.

How's it going on?