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This Windows 8.1 Demo Actually Uses Mouse, Start Button

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June 9, 2013 9:05:13 AM

so basically they replaced the "spot" in the taskbar where the start button was, which if you clicked it would take you to metro... with a button, which if you clicked takes you to metro.

sounds like zero change to me~ no start menu in win 8.1, about the only change i can see is you can set the background for the metro screen.

this looks like a fail all around
June 9, 2013 9:14:01 AM

if you're complaining about W8, you're an old crook who hasn't used it and is resistant to change. its great, its fast, its fluid and secure. I dont miss the start button at all, but I'm glad to now have my wallpaper apply to the start screen.
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June 9, 2013 9:27:35 AM

The new start menu is fine. People may say, "If something works, dont change it". Yes, but MS is reluctant on pushing the new start menu, and the start button is the best solution. Change is good.
June 9, 2013 9:35:59 AM

The mouse and keyboard navigation is not news? Mouse and keyboard navigation works in Windows 8 today; it just takes one extra click to get to the All Apps screen...
June 9, 2013 9:41:59 AM

No thanks. Staying with Windows 7. It's the ergonomics, stupid. The reason why the Start menu has existed for almost 20 years (Windows 95 to W7 and Classic Start Menu in W8), and is well liked, is quite simply because it works so well with a mouse and keyboard. As do hierarchical menu's which "just make sense" (and make even more sense the more you have installed).
As to the usual stupid "resistance to change" emotional kneejerk responses like codo's - would swapping a QWERTY keyboard for an obscure DVORAK layout then telling everyone they're stupid or "hate change" improve typing speeds? No. That's just change for the sake of change which isn't down to user or ergonomics, it's a marketing ploy that only the gullible fall for every time (remember Vista's "Sidebar"? LOL)...
June 9, 2013 9:43:20 AM

Who was clapping? Microsoft employees again like during the XBOX reveal?
June 9, 2013 9:47:37 AM

Did you hear the standing o in the video? If only this had been the way it was released in october, then I think they could have avoided the bulk of the complaints, except from you toms trolls. Of course you still have to set it to share the wallpaper and possibly boot to the desktop–its not the default. I don't think I'll give up start8 just yet but this is pretty compelling. Also I think startisback is better than start8 for those want the total exclusion of metro. Here come the thumbs downs even though I've presented a non fanboy balanced comment that even includes suggestions for people who don't like metro.
June 9, 2013 9:53:54 AM

Lots of people are really vocal about their microsoft hatred but the new menu really is a step up from the win7 start menu. I have both and my Win7 start menu is chock full of dead or dormant shortcuts, failed un-installs that couldn't remove the old shortcuts, it breaks down the list into program files "all" and whoever the current user is. The win7 start menu is old and terrible in many ways but it's just really really familiar for some people. I hope MS continues to improve the Win8 menu as it obviously has lots of room for improvement but sheesh compared to the old start menu c'mon now.
June 9, 2013 9:59:22 AM

I don't see touch navigation with computers as change for the sake of change. I initially used Win 8 for about 5 months on a traditional laptop and after switching to a touch machine, Win 8 is much better with touch. I also think the resistance to change argument is valid to a point. You don't see anyone arguing that we should all go back to horse-drawn carriages at this point, yet there was big resistance to automobiles at the start. Another issue is that many of the apps we rely on are designed for mouse and keyboard. In another few years, when touch versions of apps are primarily used, none of this will matter...
June 9, 2013 10:18:44 AM

So let me get this straight. Microsoft adds a button to the Taskbar, which is finger-friendly, which takes you back to their finger friendly start screen?
Well, I'll say this. I never liked the Start Menu for a couple of reasons. First of all, applications will add folders to the Start Menu. You'd have to click on the Start Menu, navigate to the folder, expand the folder, sometimes even subfolders just to find the EXE (or whatever file) you're looking for. That kind of was a PITA. Secondly, I don't think I've liked the Start Menu since Windows XP. With Vista/7, it's very similar to 95/98/Me. You have a single column list you have to scroll through. The way I see it, you can much more easily customize this start screen, see bigger icons and not have to navigate through folders or scroll through a list as much. Of course, with a Start Menu, you could also cut out the crap, or even do what I do, make a Quick Launch toolbar. If I ever do get Windows 8.1 (and to be honest, now I think I will with my new build next month), I will be making a Quick Launch toolbar.
June 9, 2013 10:20:27 AM

I dunno... I'm starting to think I should stick with Classic Shell after seeing this demo.
June 9, 2013 10:25:05 AM

Shut up complaining. Microsoft is pushing is foward into the future. They are forcing change...I might not like it but...I'm getting used to it. Had to get used to iOS...so...meh!
June 9, 2013 10:27:30 AM

Windows 8.1 looks good enough to me that I'll probably upgrade my XP computer to it instead of to Windows 7. I can understand why people want the old start menu back, it's familiar and therefore easy to use, I like it too. But metro does seem like an upgrade to me, and it can only improve more with each yearly update. It would be fantastic to have things like weather and email right there on my screen when I turn on my PC without having to open a web browser, and switching between metro and desktop is as easy as single click of the mouse. I'm also thinking that Windows 8 will last longer for gaming than Windows 7, looking at games now, several no longer support Windows XP, and I think some no longer support Vista. In a few years time, Windows 7 might not allow the playing of the latest games, but Windows 8 should last a few years longer.
June 9, 2013 10:54:29 AM

Great, now for those that are too lazy to press the windows button on the keyboard, they have conveniently add clutter to the desktop.
This is by no means beneficial and in no way brings back the functionality of the start menu that is needed. Let me add tiles that link to device manager, computer management, or whatever else I want to get to with ease.
June 9, 2013 11:16:46 AM

"Unfortunately, it's not the one we've come to know, love and depend on since Windows 95,"
Loved ? No way ..... the start button cumbersome interface was simply replaced with a more cumbersome interface. Give me back HP's "Dashboard" or PowerDesk's "Coolbar" for ergonomics.
June 9, 2013 11:17:10 AM

Change for the sake of change is irrelevant. (Like metro for non-touch displays)
Change for the sake of progress is useful. (Like the automobile)
Windows 8 interface for desktops is not useful, it's kind of a hindrance, at which point, it's change for the sake of change. Perhaps for tablets it's outstanding, but desktop is pointless. And there's no reason microsoft couldn't include the start menu as it's been since windows 95. Improve it and clean it up? Yes, but removing it has no value to the user, it's just change for the sake of change.
Change for progress like the automobile, jets, the computer, the smart phone, all those were practical changes to make life better for consumers, name one way windows 8 is such a change as to make life better for the consumer?
It's faster? I guess. if a second or two really matters to you. But then you'd buy an SSD instead, a much greater improvement then any OS could give. Not really making life better. Give me an computer/OS that boots my PC from a cold boot up, to in game (A modern game) in less then 20 seconds and I'll label it life changing. Right now with an SSD, it takes about 2-3 minutes combined. Mostly because the game takes forever to load.
It's more secure? I question that. Nothing is secure these days. Saying this OS is more secure then this one, is like saying Ford cars take less damage in a crash then Honda. When both are pretty equally smashed after impact. Again not really a life changing event.
When windows does something that truly changes the way a consumer does something, and that means, better then the old way, then it will be change for progress. But thus far, microsoft hasn't done that since they invented the start menu. All i've heard even from users of W8 is it's a hassle to work with even for industry veterans.
Maybe Windows 9 will do what 8 "should" have done.
If not, Linux is starting to pick up a bit in the gaming community, perhaps it will do better.
(Plus being open source, anyone can change an aspect they don't like all the way down to the core of the OS, by installing a new element or re-coding the original ^^)
June 9, 2013 11:26:31 AM

Can I disable the "start button" then?
Even before windows 8 came out, I would make my start button invisible because it looked cleaner - the fact that windows eight lets me just use the windows key and start typing was actually a PLUS for me.
I know I'm in the minority, but if this is as much forced for me as not having a start button was with normal W8, then windows is just setting up another comedy of errors.
June 9, 2013 11:27:44 AM

While I dislike Win8 currently (I've had very little hands on experience with it) I will be buying a separate hard disk and Win8 just to play around with it on a dual boot system. I have to know how to support it for work so actually getting it makes sense from a support perspective. I definitely do not like the modern ui, it feels clunky and I have an extreme dislike for tiles/icons covering my desktop unless I place icons there, that's why I used the start menu and pinned apps to the task bar. I'm sure once I get accustomed to the new gui I'll feel more comfortable with it, after all I grew accustomed to the last gui over the last 2 decades coming from using the cli on old (read ancient) computers that only ran basic/dos based programs and of course the many different Linux OS flavors. Definitely staying away from touch screens unless they're the tablet/phone stuff...can't stand finger prints on my desktop monitor(s)!
June 9, 2013 11:31:08 AM

This is just Ubuntu 11.04 all over again. The difference between Win8 and Ubuntu is that on Ubuntu (or any other distro) you can easily install a different interface if you don't like the default one, and it won't try to lure or force you back to Unity.
June 9, 2013 11:54:18 AM

i like all the paid microsoft blogged spamming this thread.
June 9, 2013 12:32:52 PM

Microsoft!
Stop trying to make your OS look like a Mac. It we wanted that, we'd buy a copy of the Mac OS (because it's dirt cheap as well), buy the prober hardware and build it.
Maybe we could call it a "Hackintosh"? ;-)
June 9, 2013 12:49:32 PM

I've used win8 for about 3 months now. It does have some nice features, but they are severely overshadowed by other negatives. The apps just irritate me to no end, they serve no real purpose for the desktop and greatly complicate navigation. I almost immediately replaced all of them with their desktop counterparts. I miss the weather widget being in plain view on my desktop. The UI scheme for win8 is very plain, flat and muted. Win7 has a polished look to it. It's like they replaced diamonds for cheap rhynestones. Basically win8 is to win7, as a console port is to real PC game. Everything from the controls to the graphics quality feels subpar.
June 9, 2013 1:06:29 PM

microsoft ruin there windows in win8 and they are trying to backup there planes by 8.1 don't make me laugh
June 9, 2013 1:57:09 PM

Making the Metro launch page more accessible helps a little but does nothing to improve one fundamental usability issue: using Metro with a mouse requires several times more mouse-travel to use than the Start Menu does.
With Metro, you need to move the mouse from end-to-end of the screen to navigate. With a reasonably well organized Start menu, all your most frequently used programs can be reached within 1/4 of a screen width/height if they aren't directly on the Start Menu itself.
At the very least, I wish the Metro taskbar still had quicklaunch. Not every program is compatible with Metro's "pin" feature.
June 9, 2013 1:57:56 PM

The start button IS the one we've known and loved since Windows 95, it was actually the start menu that never left, it moved to the charms bar, and now all those who don't take the time to see what's underneath the system can't find it because they don't use ''the Hot Corners'', THE START gsdioujngrfsd BUTTON IS RETURTNING QWIETHRE WITNDOWS 8.,1, there is no reason for EVERY PARKI*(ernos so called0-0- -- -)NG news corporation to post about it EVERYT SINGLE SATFNIOR / DAY IVDOS GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.
I'm twitching over all the headlines I read about the return of the start button rather than discussing the countless of other cool features like the improved Windows Store, the more organized or integrated version of Xbox Music, nor the new apps like Bing Food & Drink, Bing Health & Fitness, Movie Moments, heck even the calculator.
People praise/hate the return of the start button, but the REAL CHANGE is in the new added features, not the returned old things.
June 9, 2013 2:00:13 PM

I've been using Windows 8 with a mouse and keyboard since it came it, it takes 0 days to adjust to it, I've never used a touch based device, and I personally prefer it my way, because I know when to use my right mouse button, on a touch device I would honestly have no idea how to do half the things I use my mouse and keyboard for.
For me, Windows 8 is for the mouse, not the hand, nor the stylus.
June 9, 2013 2:03:20 PM

I could have a better time adjusting to metro if they had a option to bind the browsing to the mouse wheel (is that default?) and change the horizontal scrolling to vertical scrolling so that it is more visually mouse friendly then its current touchscreen only design.
June 9, 2013 2:46:44 PM

The Windows 8 start screen is much better and way more intuitive to start apps. frequently loaded or not. There's just more space and things work better. The problem is that starting apps were only like the 3rd most important task that one does with the start menu. It was a place where the shortcuts to the Control Panel, Computer, Pictures, and power settings were. That's the important bit. I'm all for the "start screen" If only I could easily start the Control Panel, power options, and desktop apps for Pictures/Videos/etc. A metro start screen which only starts desktop apps would be awesome for all of us!
June 9, 2013 3:44:27 PM

Microsoft freaking trolling... when people asked for "Start button" They meant not just a damn button but all the menus and options that came with it... you know like in windows 95 to windows 7! Unbelivable.
June 9, 2013 4:50:00 PM

"Change for the sake of change is irrelevant. (Like metro for non-touch displays)"
Agreed.
"Change for the sake of progress is useful. (Like the automobile)"
Disagree here.
The automobile is a predominant transportation device of the 20th century.
Mathematically,Physics (especially from the Energy,Kinetic Energy standpoint) and Chemistry wise (though it's Internal Combustion Engine fuels and emissions) it can be proven to be a deceptively insidious wasteful,destructive and a obsolete (though current) method of transportation.It needs expensive infrastructure,Kills,maims and injures millions per year worldwide and the carbon dioxide emissions required by these energy inefficient machines is a proven large major contributor to worldwide anthropogenic greenhouse gas carbon dioxide emissions.Also we are past Post Peak Oil under E.R.O.E.I rules so it's unsustainable from that angle too.The much older Kinetic Energy experimental proof of Willem Gravesande advocated by Emilie du Chatelet will give much insight from the physics standpoint into why the current automobile transportation model is a huge catastrophic error in judgement for civilization.
It can be easily replaced though.
June 9, 2013 5:38:27 PM

What a joke! Who was asking for a start button? People wanted the start MENU back. All you had to do is move your mouse into the corner to get the start button to appear in Windows 8. The problem was what would happen after you clicked it.
I upgraded to Windows 8 from Windows XP ONLY because Microsoft is making all of its software and all development software that everyone else uses to develop Windows applications and games incompatible with Windows XP so I have no choice if I want to be able to run all the new games and applications. I still prefer the Windows XP start menu and Windows desktop applications to anything the Windows 8 GUI has to offer and I don't see Windows 8.1 changing that one bit. Windows 8 is not all bad since there are some good under-the-hood improvements in non GUI-specific functionality like improved system startup speeds, but the GUI seems to have taken a definite step back.
I hate the start SCREEN. I hate the cloud. I hate the "modern" apps. They are designed for a phone or a tablet (or maybe an Xbox game console) not a powerful desktop machine. There's a reason that when Microsoft shows demonstrations for Windows 8 they use touch screens and not the mouse. Its because Windows 8 is a step back for mouse users. I ended up installing Classic Shell to get a real start menu and I never touch any of the "modern" functionality.
June 9, 2013 5:48:51 PM

"Microsoft demonstrates who the Start button and wallpaper unifies the desktop and Modern UI experience."
"who" the start button, I guess is meant to be "how".
June 9, 2013 6:29:26 PM

Not enough. 8.1 still comes with Metro. Metro apps are set as default pulling people out of desktop mode, the Start Screen app dumping ground (like iOS, Android, Gnome 3) is still there as opposed to neatly organized menus/folders, and Metro apps still cannot be run in resizable and layerable windows. Metro should be a bolt-on like Windows Media Center rather than take the central role it does in Windows 8. Listening Microsoft? I'm telling you how to make Windows 9 such that I buy it and stick with your products.
June 9, 2013 6:30:20 PM

MS still in denial and try to force people to use the crap METRO UI with a confusing "Start Button" hybrid. Fortunately, there is this thing called Start8 which totally remove the METRO UI from your life (leaving only a link in the Start menu, in case you want to look at it), including all the stupid corner "Charms" (which isn't very charming at all). If it weren't for Hyper-V in Windows 8, i would stick with Win 7. Those people who don't need Hyper-V, there is no reason to upgrade at all. Now i just use my Windows 8 like a traditional Windows 7 thanks to Start8 (worth the small price for returning the way things should work!). There is also a free option called Pokki, similar to Start8, but i am not sure if it can remove the corners pop-up like Start8. Give it a try guys. No need to wait for another confusing interface from MS. The solution is already here and available TODAY.
June 9, 2013 6:40:08 PM

MS still in denial and try to force people to use the crap METRO UI with a confusing "Start Button" hybrid. Fortunately, there is this thing called Start8 which totally remove the METRO UI from your life (leaving only a link in the Start menu, in case you want to look at it), including all the stupid corner "Charms" (which isn't very charming at all). If it weren't for Hyper-V in Windows 8, i would stick with Win 7. Those people who don't need Hyper-V, there is no reason to upgrade at all. Now i just use my Windows 8 like a traditional Windows 7 thanks to Start8 (worth the small price for returning the way things should work!). There is also a free option called Pokki, similar to Start8, but i am not sure if it can remove the corners pop-up like Start8. Give it a try guys. No need to wait for another confusing interface from MS. The solution is already here and available TODAY.
June 9, 2013 7:35:15 PM

People are so sick of Microsoft and all their BS, Windows 8 is a failure...and so will 8.1...all people want is the performance improvements of Windows 8...in a Windows 7 package...not the metro...not metro ui BS.
But there's hope... Android is on the rise, and hopefully game devs, and programmers will start writing code for Android the way they do for x86...when that happens..as I think it will...Microsoft is dead and I will be screaming The King is dead...hooray!!!!!
June 9, 2013 7:48:03 PM

Windows 7 isn't broke. Windows 8.1 is just a public relations stunt.
June 9, 2013 8:19:15 PM

Task bar and start menu is a great convenience that is silly to take away same can be said with alt tab.
Even with alternative windows shell ui's I just can't stand using them w/o the inclusion of them they are convenient features.
June 9, 2013 9:04:21 PM

The main problem I have had with the Windows 8 UI is that the UIs are separate. Click on something in the start, it can only be accessed from there. Click something in desktop mode, it can only be accessed there. If they managed to click on something and it can be accessed from either screen I am cool with it.
June 9, 2013 9:06:51 PM

The beginning of end for WIndows, and probably the MS...
June 9, 2013 9:26:33 PM

knowom said:
Task bar and start menu is a great convenience that is silly to take away same can be said with alt tab.
Even with alternative windows shell ui's I just can't stand using them w/o the inclusion of them they are convenient features.


Alt-tab still works in Windows 8. That functionality was not removed. It can switch between all applications on the PC, both the desktop and the "modern" UI, unlike the desktop taskbar at the bottom of the screen (still available but only in desktop apps) or the modern ui task bar in the upper left hot corner. There's a number of valid reasons not to like the Windows 8 UI but alt-tab is not one of them.
June 9, 2013 10:05:12 PM

I get along fine with Windows 8. Am I a Microsoft employee saying that? Hardly. I'm a student in Australia. But whatever. I like Win 7. I now like Win 8 too. I use both in their times and am used to both. I personally don't find Win 8 hard to use with keyboard and mouse, nor do I find it interrupts my flow. Never have seen the touch version. I'm not fond of the garish background currently so to have my desktop background being common will be a welcome sight. Chances are, While Win 7 is fantastic and all, I doubt MS will drop 8 and return to it. And 8 is looking to get better. As on OS, it has none of the bugs or issues like Vista that prevented easy running - it runs equally as well or better than 7. It just lacks customisation. Which, please, I'll have back. (Oh, and am the type who would muck about in the registry to change stuff to get customisation - not just a do-as-MS-wants person). ALL just my opinion. It just annoys me the way people have an opinion that all gets blocked and marked as spam below because so many disagree with it.
June 9, 2013 10:26:33 PM

The new start button is actually pretty clever of them. It allows for a middle ground to be met somewhere between what I'm familiar with and their vision for a new interface. Hate me, toms.
June 9, 2013 10:50:40 PM

I always found win 8 to be not bad especially when you ad the classic shell app to it and get the start menu back, but I am starting to see their vision, it's like unity on Ubuntu, I loathed the first few versions of it, but it's now developed into quite a decent setup, I feel given time metro or what ever they call it will be quite good.
June 9, 2013 11:22:06 PM

You can easily set up your desktop icon and task bar icons so that you never miss the old Start bar. Just make sure you actually set it up, because looking around for the "Start Scan" function for your printer is not fun at all.
Hint: You have to create an icon for your printer on the desktop, then right-click on it to pull up the "Start Scan" option. Actually it's kind of a pain in the ass, but Win8 is nowhere near as bad as others make it seem. You just have to get it figured out.
June 10, 2013 12:14:45 AM

I think that the problem with the people who hate on windows 8 is that they see the windows 8 store and automatically presume it works like mac - their limited thinking prevents them from realizing that they don't have to use ANY metro apps if they don't want to, and that nobody is forcing them into it.

Once you realize that, windows 8 suddenly becomes a lot better. Yeah, metro apps are not good for desktop setups... but you never have to use them anyway, so why does it matter?
June 10, 2013 1:08:25 AM

Stop crying about the start button already, once you get used to it, you`ll understand that it`s actually faster and better than the old classic start menu. Everybody is going crazy about W8 just for the start menu and ignoring other potential good things that comes with it. Ok, you don`t like it .. just sit there, i don`t go to linux guys and constantly tell them that i don`t like linux (just for the compiling stuff etc).
June 10, 2013 2:37:38 AM

DarkSable said:
I think that the problem with the people who hate on windows 8 is that they see the windows 8 store and automatically presume it works like mac - their limited thinking prevents them from realizing that they don't have to use ANY metro apps if they don't want to, and that nobody is forcing them into it.

Once you realize that, windows 8 suddenly becomes a lot better. Yeah, metro apps are not good for desktop setups... but you never have to use them anyway, so why does it matter?


you don't get it. windows 8 (metro/microsoft store) is the first step for microsoft to create the MS version of the iOS walled garden. If windows8 and the MS store catch on in any appreciable way, MS will move forward with their walled garden and erect the barrier. Win8 has all the code necessary to prevent all aps and programs from running on your system unless approved by microsoft and activated.

You're right, currently it's not apple, but there is no doubt in my mind that's where they're aiming to go. In another generation or two of their OS it will happen.
!