System Builder Marathon, Q2 2013: $1300 Enthusiast PC

[cleeve]

Our mid-range System Builder Marathon configuration gets a larger budget so that we can fit it into a mini-ITX enclosure. How does it compare with last quarter's less-expensive machine? We run our complete benchmark suite to find out.

System Builder Marathon, Q2 2013: $1300 Enthusiast PC : Read more

 

[Madn3ss795]

I'm against using Corsair CX PSU in a mid-end build. You also admitted that 750w is overkill. 90$ can get you a SeaSonic M12II 620 Bronze with much better components.

Additionally, Samsung 840 120gb only costs 20$ more than the Adata XPG SX900 64.

 

[itzsnypah]

Anymore these days all SBM gives me is a good laugh. Maybe it's because I've gone more elitist as my component knowledge increases or mabye that SBM builders don't have free reign on what brands they can buy.

Did you know that a 250gb Samsung 840 has been holding at ~$180 for months and that a 750w PSU in a mITX system makes you look unintelligent? Or that 2133 ram costs the same as 1866?

I think it's time you guys start building machines you would actually own and not ones that tops the charts but are horridly flawed.

 

[tomate2]

its nice to see Toms trying something new like a mini itx build on the system builder marathon

 

[Someone Somewhere]

So, ways I think this is dumb:

• ■DDR3-1866. Save $20 and get -1600.
  ■WD Black as a storage drive. I'd consider it overpriced as a boot drive. Save $35.
  ■Geven the 770 and 680 are basically the same card (in fact the 770 may be slightly better), save $30 and get the 770.
  ■More than $1 per GB on an SSD. For $10 more you can get a 120GB 840.
  ■750W PSU. You're trolling me. That could run two of them.

And yeah, title on page 3 refers to a non-existent Sapphire 680.

 

[vmem]

Awesome idea picking the mini ITX theme btw, we're long overdue for one

just a thought, while we're on themes, maybe a pure number cruncher/work-horse for the next SBM? could be fun for the "all work and no play" folks out there

 

[agnickolov]

Personally I'd save money on the HDD with a cheaper 1TB for $60 and use the money for a larger 128GB SSD. Considering you can get one for as low as $90-$100, that would even balance the budget...

 

[cangelini]

So, ways I think this is dumb:
* DDR3-1866. Save $20 and get -1600.
* WD Black as a storage drive. I'd consider it overpriced as a boot drive. Save $35.
* Geven the 770 and 680 are basically the same card (in fact the 770 may be slightly better), save $30 and get the 770.
* More than $1 per GB on an SSD. For $10 more you can get a 120GB 840.
* 750W PSU. You're trolling me. That could run two of them.

And yeah, title on page 3 refers to a non-existent Sapphire 680.

GTX 770 wasn't an option when Don placed his order--says so right on the same page three where you found the Sapphire typo ;-)

Don will have to defend his other component choices (against you guys *and* Paul/Thomas).

 

[agnickolov]

A question on the Visual Studio benchmark - is it run from the SSD for this build? That would explain the significant performance delta at stock clocks...

 

[CaptainTom]

This build is a total joke. So much could be done better. A 680 really? That card has been a joke since the 670 and 7970 GHz, but now the 770 has made it completely irrelevant...

 

[Crashman]

Did you know that a 250gb Samsung 840 has been holding at ~$180 for months and that a 750w PSU in a mITX system makes you look unintelligent? Or that 2133 ram costs the same as 1866?

Did you know that the $180 SSD would have blown his system even farther out of budget, that readers have spoken out against both DDR3-1866 AND DDR3-2133 as unimportant to real-world performance, or that power supply size is dictated by components and not case size? What were you saying about intelligence?

This build is a total joke. So much could be done better. A 680 really? That card has been a joke since the 670 and 7970 GHz, but now the 770 has made it completely irrelevant...

While I probably would have gone with a 7970 or 670 to save money, the 680 isn't really that bad by comparison. And the 770? I'm surprised you didn't read any of the previous comments. These systems were ordered in April. As an experienced commenter you knew these articles take weeks to prepare, but you opened up about parts that weren't available weeks ago anyway? For shame Captain, I expected so much more from you...

To the both of you: I'm a little rough on Don for not pushing his RAM even though it doesn't make much performance difference, but only because he's a competitor. And his power supply might be over-rated, but he's probably just trying to dodge the complaints of other readers who demand excessive capacity. All in all he's only wasted what, 10% of his budget? I'm sure most of you would find some other way to waste 10% of your budgets.

BTW, if you hate his power supply for being ridiculously over-capacity and somewhat middle-quality, you're going to have a love/hate relationship with mine

 

[slomo4sho]

The extra $500 doesn't provide much performance boost. Not sure if the 62.5% price premium justifies the modest performance increases and the small form factor.

or that power supply size is dictated by components and not case size? What were you saying about intelligence?

I am sure this is what he was implying...

The PSU from the $650 build was more than enough for this build as well. The hardware choices made in this build are rather poor and wasteful.

 

[virtualban]

Why is this 1300 machine matched against last quarter's 800? If I recall correctly, last quarter had also a 1000$ machine.
Yes you would not have comparisons for your 2600$ beast. Last quarter's 1000$ machine could be a comparison token to the 1300 and 2600.

 

[Crashman]

I am sure this is what he was implying...

The PSU from the $650 build was more than enough for this build as well. The hardware choices made in this build are rather poor and wasteful.

But that has nothing to do with the motherboard form factor. The guy specifically said that high capacity power is idiotic for ITX, and I pointed out that ITX has no bearing on the selection. The intelligent builder picks his capacity based on the parts he's powering.

Don's over-capacious choice would have been similar over-capacious in a full-sized build, if he'd used the same CPU, GPU, DRAM and drives.

 

[Someone Somewhere]

It could be said though that an ATX build has the option for a second GPU, which would make the 750W a reasonable choice. In ITX, that option is completely removed.

Still way overkill though.

 

[ojas]

Interesting, if i had to do a mini-ITX build, i'd probably build something similar...probably use a different PSU, SSD and HDD (RAM too, maybe), but otherwise it's a fairly balanced build, i think.

I would have probably given up overclocking and gone with a lower wattage CPU...i was sort of expecting someone to do that.

That brings me to a suggestion, could next quarter's SBM have "low power" as a theme? Like, lowest power, temps and noise, but highest performance. Maybe restrict that to mATX or mini-ITX as well.

Or have an SBM that tries to beat console performance for a similar price (this could be Q4 2013 or Q1 2014). Thomas would have to match them in power, noise and thermals while posting 60 fps at 1080p maxed out, Paul and Don could battle at $400 and $500 respectively.

 

[nvidiamd]

Intel Core i5-3570K = 220$
GIGABYTE GA-Z77N-WIFI = 120$
CORSAIR Hydro Series H60 = 66$
G.SKILL Sniper 8GB (2 x 4GB) ddr 1600 = 68$
MSI Gaming N770 TF 2GD5/OC GeForce GTX 770 = 400$
Intel 335 Series Jay Crest SSDSC2CT180A4K5 2.5" 180GB SATA = 175$
Western Digital WD Blue WD10EZEX 1TB 7200 RPM = 70$
ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS = 19$
BitFenix Prodigy Red = 80$
SILVERSTONE ST60F-P 600W = 85$

total = 1303$

 

[de5_Roy]

Intel Core i5-3570K = 220$
GIGABYTE GA-Z77N-WIFI = 120$
CORSAIR Hydro Series H60 = 66$
G.SKILL Sniper 8GB (2 x 4GB) ddr 1600 = 68$
MSI Gaming N770 TF 2GD5/OC GeForce GTX 770 = 400$
Intel 335 Series Jay Crest SSDSC2CT180A4K5 2.5" 180GB SATA = 175$
Western Digital WD Blue WD10EZEX 1TB 7200 RPM = 70$
ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS = 19$
BitFenix Prodigy Red = 80$
SILVERSTONE ST60F-P 600W = 85$

total = 1303$

shoulda added the cost of the time machine needed to deliver the gtx770 back in april. the extra cost easily goes over the $1300 limit.

an evga gtx 670 on the other hand....

edit:
imo, it goes for all the people using current prices and parts. please calculate the cost of a time travelling device into the final tally. shipping should be a nightmare...

 

[aebome]

What with the component choices? First, a 64GB SSD when one double that capacity is only $20 more? Here's your $20: Drop the ridiculous 750W PSU and get a Seasonic G Series 550W GOLD power supply for $80 and get a well reviewed 1600 ram kit, like a Mushkin Blackline or similar for $65. That's $28 dollars that will buy a good 120/128 GB SSD. That's not even counting the extra spent on a WD Black drive for use as storage drive (um why?). Case choice is subjective, but that interior is cramped, even for Mini-ITX, why not use a Bitfenix prodigy, with a superior layout for less money?

I'm in the market for a micro atx or mini-itx build, and while I love this SBM format, the choices here are just poor. I think one of the non-builder writers needs to start reducing scores for bad choices, or something to clean up these builds.

 

[Chris Kemper]

On the whole, I really like this build. For myself, I would like to see a few differences (thanks to the pour of the hourglass)

I would like to see the impact of a upper end 7 series card (if appropriately priced) in a month or so along with 3D gaming reviews (thanks Helix)

Just a thought here:
1 – 240/256 GB SSD mounted to the Floor (Remove 64 GB ) [-$80 + $185]
2 – Remove the Drive Cage (and the 1 TB Mech HD) [-$100]
3 – Place the radiator and fan blowing out on the front of the case
4 – Remove the external top fan
5 – Still within cost ($ 14 over original budget) [-$80 + $185] + [-$100] = $5 higher, or $19 over budget

I believe the 240 GB drive is enough for OS and games (Windows 7, Office, Bloat takes 45 GB; Skyrim takes 6 GB, Bioshock takes 20 GB; that leaves 145 GB for storage and more games assuming one leaves 10% of the HD free). Also, music streaming services/unRaid/Amazon Cloud sync/etc, has for me at least, rendered local storage of most media on my gaming rig a negative.

In addition to removing the cosmetic blemish, the case would have less air restriction with the drive cage yanked, no?

1 complication – a 120 to 140mm fan adapter ($7 more) will be needed up front. Alternatively one could spend $20 more for a Corsair H90 which uses 140mm

This puts us at $49 over budget (if going with the Corsair). That can be pulled back down by going with DDR3-1600 (-$20) and a 770 (-$30).

Again, you have my thanks. Cheers!

 

[Onus]

...
That brings me to a suggestion, could next quarter's SBM have "low power" as a theme? Like, lowest power, temps and noise, but highest performance. Maybe restrict that to mATX or mini-ITX as well.

Or have an SBM that tries to beat console performance for a similar price (this could be Q4 2013 or Q1 2014). Thomas would have to match them in power, noise and thermals while posting 60 fps at 1080p maxed out, Paul and Don could battle at $400 and $500 respectively.

I like both of these ideas. I think the competition that surrounds the SBM cycles may preclude it though. Fix that by switching to a points system, especially for games. Under 30FPS=0 points, 30-60 on a sliding scale, 60-120 on another [diminished] sliding scale (only because some people have 3D monitors), and 120+FPS gets the same score, i.e. 150FPS scores no higher than 120FPS.

I Win:
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.
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Video Card: Gigabyte Radeon HD 7970 3GB Video Card ($389.99 @ NCIX US)
Notes:
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.
.
-HD7970 - Cheaper, more OC headroom, better performance than the GTX 680, higher power consumption
.
.
.

You lose. That's one of the few video cards that may be too big for this case. Worse, it does not exhaust its heat, and that is a HUGE problem in this case.

On the whole, I really like this build...
.
.
.
1 – 240/256 GB SSD mounted to the Floor (Remove 64 GB ) [-$80 + $185]
2 – Remove the Drive Cage (and the 1 TB Mech HD) [-$100]
3 – Place the radiator and fan blowing out on the front of the case
4 – Remove the external top fan
.
.
.

The SSD in this case mounts under the optical drive. There is not another mount point for one. There wouldn't be room on the floor because of the video card. If you meant under the mobo, I don't believe there is quite enough room, not without hitting the cooler mounts.
The front fan is fitted into a bracket. I'm not sure how readily you could put the radiator there, but I'm not optimistic.
I agree that the external fan destroys the elegance of this case. More in another post...

 

[Onus]

Overall I'm happy with the decision this cycle to build mini-ITX systems. I think it is remarkable what can be done in such a small area, especially compared to only a few years ago.
This latest build has some good and bad though.
Great choice of video card, because it exhausts its heat. Having had a mobo die in this case, presumably due to heat (although CPU and GPU were well within acceptable ranges), I believe this is a Big Deal. One of the HIS "Black Hole" cards might be another viable choice, but would have given up some graphics muscle; I don't think they're too tall, but...Don, would it have fit?
Bad cooler choice though, because it does nothing for the mobo. I might have used something like a Praeton, or similar low-profile cooler. Overclocking should not be a high priority in this form factor. The way the fan was mounted utterly destroys the elegance of this case. Although it's bigger, I believe a Prodigy would have been a more appropriate choice for this build.
PSU gets a pass, but did you not see the 550W Seasonic? The Corsair is oversized, but at least it is modular, and though built by CWT, unlike the non-modular "CX" units, apparently uses all-Japanese capacitors, which are heat-resistant. Which way did you turn it, fan-out or fan-in? The latter might help mobo cooling some. You may wish to replace the front fan with a higher speed model, controlled by the mobo.
I'd love to win this one, primarily for the case and PSU; but I would not build it as-is, but mix and match, lowering the power and heat.

 

[dingo07]

I think Toms needs to add a disclaimer on every system builder marathon build that indicates When the parts for the build were ordered - it will eliminate 95% of the posts claiming better parts can be sourced

 

[Guest]

The only change that I would have made is stucking in the cheapest gold or platinum psu in that build..

 

[stingstang]

Were you really nervous about having a system comparable to Q1's system with a budget more than 50% more?
My guess is no, unless you're just a very pessimistic person.