General Billboard Score lower than Topics Billboard Score?

[17seconds]

How is it possible for someone to have a lower score on the General Billboard than on one of the Topic Billboards? I thought the General Billboard included scores for all the sub-topics combined.

 

[jpishgar]

Can you cite an example? Is there someone currently who has a lower score on the General Billboard than they do in a specific subcategory?

 

[17seconds]

iiTzzDeFuze

Score on General Billboard: 10, Rank 41

Score on AMD: 14, Rank 1
Score on Nvidia: 13, Rank 2
Score on Asus: 12, Rank 2
Score on Graphics Card: 13, Rank 2
Score on CPUs: 9, Rank 5
Score on Intel: 13, Rank 1
Score on Memory: 10, Rank 2
Score on Motherboard: 12, Rank 4
Score on Power Supply: 10, Rank 4
Score on Gaming: 12, Rank 3
Score on Homebuilt system: 8, Rank 1
Score on Overclocking: 11, Rank 1
Score on Windows 8: 3, Rank 3

I think you can see where this is going...

This thread is a perfect example of what is clearly going on:
http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-1722486/gpu-fit.html

 

[mactronix]

Also, how does that user have all those badges with only 21 best answers ? Is it possible that they are being added by the user ?

Mac

 

[jpishgar]

Ahh, I see what's going on here.
A Best Answer in a thread tagged with multiple items counts as a Best Answer and counts towards a badge for each of those tagged items. So in other words, a single Best Answer in a thread tagged 4 times with badge elements counts towards those 4 badges.

This, in the case of the thread cited above, is gaming the system and will be tended to by a moderator.
Generally this is dealt with with a warning to begin with, followed by permanent revocation of badges, and then banning.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

 

[mactronix]

Ahh, I see what's going on here.
A Best Answer in a thread tagged with multiple items counts as a Best Answer and counts towards a badge for each of those tagged items. So in other words, a single Best Answer in a thread tagged 4 times with badge elements counts towards those 4 badges.

This, in the case of the thread cited above, is gaming the system and will be tended to by a moderator.
Generally this is dealt with with a warning to begin with, followed by permanent revocation of badges, and then banning.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

So when I posted this thread http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/id-1712871/posts-counted.html my suspicions were actually correct then ?
It's a little disconcerting that you should come across this seemingly by accident when I have already specifically asked if this happens and have been told it does not.

Still this does not answer the question of how that user has all those badges with only 21 best answers though. Any thoughts on that ?

Mac

 

[17seconds]

I'm still confused as to how someone would have '10' Best Answers on the Global Billboard and '14' Best Answers on the AMD billboard.

That's beside the point of someone gaming the system to maximize their badges and Best Answer scores across various sub-categories. The tragedy of that is this person is being widely recognized as an "expert" in that field, not only through their rankings and ill-gotten badges, but also in the side bar acknowledgements citing "Top Experts". Their picture and name are given prominence throughout the site in various places.

 

[jpishgar]

my suspicions were actually correct then ?

Nope - your suspicions were that users were receiving duplicate credit. They are not. Users only receive credit for Best Answers in threads which are tagged with the tag corresponding to the badge. Please understand, this does mean that a single thread may count towards more than one Best Answer in a given category. So a thread that asks about Overclocking your Graphics Card may count towards both Overclocking and Graphics Card badges.

It's a little disconcerting that you should come across this seemingly by accident when I have already specifically asked if this happens and have been told it does not.

It is not by accident. The user in question had already been under scrutiny for inappropriate tagging. Inappropriate tagging is, as an incidence of user system abuse, very rare.

Still this does not answer the question of how that user has all those badges with only 21 best answers though. Any thoughts on that ?

Yes, it does. Inappropriately tagging threads means that the user in question has received credit, unduly, for threads which are tagged multiple times. The tags are being removed and the user has been warned.

Please let me know if this is still unclear to anyone here.

-JP

 

[mactronix]

Yes its very unclear you are contradicting yourself.

You state that my suspicion that users are getting duplicate credit is incorrect then state

So a thread that asks about Overclocking your Graphics Card may count towards both Overclocking and Graphics Card badges.

As well as

A Best Answer in a thread tagged with multiple items counts as a Best Answer and counts towards a badge for each of those tagged items.

How can Overclocking and Graphics cards not be duplicate credit ?

It seems as if you are splitting hairs between duplicate best answers and duplicate badge credit here.
Yes my question on the other thread did specify post count. However unless my understanding is way off you cant/shouldn't get badge credit without getting best answers.

As a confirmed, registered member, you gain progress towards earning an expertise badge by accruing Best Answers

So people absolutely are getting duplicate credit and despite your early assertions to the contrary people are gaming the system.

When you say

Ahh, I see what's going on here.

It does kinda sound like you have just realized the issue.

Mac

 

[jpishgar]

I think this may be an issue of definitions.

Users get credit towards badges based on the Best Answers they receive.
Credit is given to a user for a Best Answer for a thread that is tagged with the tag of the appropriate badge.

If you have a response to a thread that is tagged with Motherboards and Overclocking, and you get a Best Answer in that, it counts as 1 Best Answer for Motherboards badge, and 1 Best Answer for Overclocking badge.

If you consider that "duplicate", then we'll have to disagree on the nature of the definition. Duplicate, to my ears, would be if you had a response to a thread that is tagged with Motherboards and Overclocking and you got a Best Answer, if you ended up getting 2, 4 or 6 credits towards Motherboards from that one Best Answer.

There was no realization moment. I said "Ahh, I see what's going on here." in response to finding this particular user gaming the system by manually adding tags that were not appropriate for the thread he had received a best answer to. That is the definition of "gaming the system". That is, adding tags where there should not be tags so you get credit you do not deserve for a thread that should not be tagged that way.

Hopefully this answers your question.

-JP

 

[17seconds]

So, I'm still trying to wrap my head around how someone can have a higher score on a single sub-category than they do on the Global Billboard. And I'm pretty sure it's not possible. If only I had access to a test subject to count up their Best Answer threads and compare it to their score on a particular sub-category.

Low and behold, my score today reflects just that; 14 on the Global Billboard and 15 on the Nvidia Billboard. I was able to go back and count up all my Best Answers in total, and also count the number of Nvidia tags on each of those Best Answer threads.

My total number of Best Answers for the month to date is 14 and the total number of Nvidia tags is 14 (slow month for me). Therefore, my Nvidia sub-category score is incorrect, I never earned 15 Best Answers in the Nvidia category, only 14. Same with the Graphics Card sub-category, I have 15 Best Answers there, but only 14 Best Answers physically counted on all my threads for the month. I even went back into June to see if there were any stragglers that counted for July.

There is clearly a problem with the counting system. And it also makes sense that the Global Billboard should NEVER be less than the score in any one sub-category. No matter how many sub-categories get credited for each Best Answer, there can only be one tag for that sub-category in the thread.

 

[rolli59]

A good example of the dangers with the new system that many of the old hands have pointed out!

 

[jpishgar]

So, I'm still trying to wrap my head around how someone can have a higher score on a single sub-category than they do on the Global Billboard

Best as I can figure, there may in fact be an issue with the way some of the newer badges are being counted. The General Billboard might not be taking into account the badges that were added after the new badge system went live. I'll look into this with the devs and see what I can find out.

 

[jpishgar]

We have an answer on this for you guys.

Per Category Billboard, the count is based on the number of Best Answers assigned in threads that are tagged with that category's tag.

Per General Billboard, the count is based on the number of total Best Answers per thread, rather than tag.

Individual categories count for each tagged Best Answer. Global only counts the number of threads tagged as Best Answer, rather than the tag. This is why the Global may sometimes be smaller than the per category, because some threads are tagged multiple times, giving multiple credit towards different categories - but is only counted once towards the global total.

Hope this answer your question!

 

[mactronix]

We have an answer on this for you guys.

Per Category Billboard, the count is based on the number of Best Answers assigned in threads that are tagged with that category's tag.

Per General Billboard, the count is based on the number of total Best Answers per thread, rather than tag.

Individual categories count for each tagged Best Answer. Global only counts the number of threads tagged as Best Answer, rather than the tag. This is why the Global may sometimes be smaller than the per category, because some threads are tagged multiple times, giving multiple credit towards different categories - but is only counted once towards the global total.

Hope this answer your question!

Yes that's what I figured was happening.
There has as you said been some confusion based around your usage of the word "duplicate" while the thread I was referring you to was talking about "multiple" posts.
A slight difference yet an important one.

It seems that the tagging system while a powerful tool is acting in some unexpected ways.
I am sure we will get on top of it soon.

Mac

 

[17seconds]

I just figured out that the Global Billboard takes longer to update than the sub-topic billboards. I got a Best Answer for Graphics Cards and Nvidia in a single thread which were credited in their respective billboard categories, but the General Billboard has not been updated and still shows the lower score from yesterday. So my sub-topic scores are higher than my General Billboard score as of right now, but I'm sure it will even out later once the new score gets added on the General Billboard.

 

[jpishgar]

This is also true - the billboards may take some time to update.