Liquid Cooling, Intake Rads Vs Exaust Rads, In the 900D Bahemoth

[LiquidCesium]

Hello! Im new here and i have turned to this site for help many times, and now i need it to solve a question about Liquid Cooling!

So im planning on making a build using the massive case the 900D, i intend on having plenty of Graphics cards (EVGA GTX 770 4Gb SC) in Tri-SLI, and i will cool my i7 - 3930K. I intend to use XSPC parts for this build. However, while i do know a thing or two about LC, there seems to be a bit of mystery over Intake VS. Exhaust. One of the companies i read from suggested to use the top rad as intake in some cases, to cool the Mobo. Now i figure that could blow hot air back into the case. I do know that having a larger amount of intake VS exhaust is supposedly better to prevent "dead spots" of air in the case. I will be using AT LEAST 4 Fans on their own and have two fan loaded Rads (Perhaps a 360 on top and a 480 on bottom) and its possible ill use the 2 fans on the other side in the bottom as well.

What i was thinking:

-Use the top 360 (or max it to 480) Rad to exhaust the hot air (Comes from GPU, Leaves to CPU)
-Use the bottom 480 Rad to intake the cold air from below (Comes from Resiviour {Or the CPU}, Leaves to GPU)
-Now there will be hot air coming off that 480 on the bottom, so use the 2 slots on the other side of the bottom to Exhaust that hot air...

Ok and i ask one last question, is it wise to take the liquid from the CPU, Dump it into the Resiviour, or cool run it through a Rad THEN send it to the Resiviour? I feel like i should cool it first but... I dont know for sure.

Thanks Guys!
Liquid Cesium

 

[TheBigTroll]

if this is to become a gaming rig, using the haswell platform will result in a higher performing build. unless you are rendering for 6 hrs at a time (given the 3 GPUs you arent because more GPUs do not increase speed), the 3930k is going to be useless to you

first of all, id like to see the build list you got there compiled. the airflow issues can be easily dealt with

 

[LiquidCesium]

if this is to become a gaming rig, using the haswell platform will result in a higher performing build. unless you are rendering for 6 hrs at a time (given the 3 GPUs you arent because more GPUs do not increase speed), the 3930k is going to be useless to you

first of all, id like to see the build list you got there compiled. the airflow issues can be easily dealt with

I dont trust haswell all that much, Plus i intend on hanging around LGA2011 for the new Ivy-Bridge E processors that are coming out in september... but here is a list so far:

You know the CPU, Case, and GPU so,
Mobo: X79 EVGA Classified (i want to upgrade it to the "Dark" someday)
PSU: AX1200i
RAM: Vengeance 8Gb (ill use two of these till i get 64Gb)
HDD: WD Black 2Tb

and ill be using XSPC Liquid cooling parts

EDIT: The Processor i intend to use is the i7-4960X when it comes out... thats why im holding onto the LGA2011 socket. My friend is going to use the 4770K, while i take a more indirect approach...

EDIT2: I forgot to mention, i do intend to make this a gaming rig and that IS the intention. I understand that the 4770K has greater single core performance than 3930K, but not only do i want a computer that can Rape games like Cryisis 3 want a computer that can run Firefox with a million tabs open, Itunes (or spotify), and record all of it at 1080p. which is why i went with the larger core count and set plans to run with Extreme at some point.

 

[TheBigTroll]

thats not how it works. multi-tasking on both chips are going to be just as fast for your firefox usage. its memory limited not CPU

how do you not trust haswell? it would be stupid of any one to get a 3930k as of now when haswell performs so damn close. if you are holding up for a 4930k, it might be justified but for gaming. it would still make no sense. games rely on strong threads, rather than a bunch

as for the components

-forget about evga. their boards are built rather well, but their BIOS stability is generally bad to horrible. a good board id suggest would be the gigabyte z79-up4. same quality, half the price
-if you arent going to video edit, its stupid to get 64gb of ram. first of all, no one actually uses 50 tabs all at the same time. the most ive seen is around 20 that are full loaded. if you arent going to use a tab for a while, do a quick bookmark
-definitely dont need the wattage. pick up a xfx 850w psu instead
-swap the GPUs to a set of 780s. 770s arent meant to drive 4gb of vram and they cant in the first place
-get seagate 2tb. they are a lot cheaper for the same if not better quality and speed. hard drive reliabilty really depends on your luck. seagate has always been good while for me WD has been pretty terrible

do not get the 4960x. its like buying a mac pro to go on the internet

 

[Buzz247]

-Now there will be hot air coming off that 480 on the bottom, so use the 2 slots on the other side of the bottom to Exhaust that hot air...

Air does not make right turns - never even bothers to use a blinker... In other words, this sounds like it is a good idea, but in reality and given laws of physics, simply - no.

1) Air will always take the path of least resistance. (behaves like liquid). Therefore, turning air cannot, happen without a solid surface to guide it.
2) Hot air will always rise. Therefore, simple computer case cooling theory will always yeild same best results from bottom/front/side fan intake, top/back fan exhaust. This utilizes natural thermodynamics, and is not fighting against convesction currents, but rather assisting them, in your case.
3) Positive or negative pressure will have opposing results in certain environments. Depending on case used and how it is built, and in some situations what type of gpu exhaust as well, positive or negative air pressure will serve you better.

Now that all said, looking at your build, here's the skinny:
Yes a bottom rad intaking air will blow hot air into the case. BUT by maintaining correct and solid airflow thru case, this will provide negligible temp degradation. So top rad, blows up, bottom rad blows up, front and side fan intaking cool air to feed hot air convection UPward thru the case. See what is happening here? Your case is an odd one that almost necessitates, using the bottom blowholes as rad intake. But given how the case is designed, and if you set it up right, there would only be 1-2c difference at best over a setup that simply pulled cool air only. The key is to push as much air thru the case as you can in an upward motion assisting natural currents, and using case design to your advantage.

Ok and i ask one last question, is it wise to take the liquid from the CPU, Dump it into the Resiviour, or cool run it through a Rad THEN send it to the Resiviour? I feel like i should cool it first but... I dont know for sure.

On a simple single loop like this, the straight answer is - really won't matter. water reaches an equilibrium operating temp within 30min of most systems. (I said most, before someone has a flameout over what i said). what this means is, the temps of the liquid at the coolest part of your loop delta to the hottest part by no more than 1-2c. Unless you are pushing for that very last tweak n edge of performance, you will not see any gains. The ONLY absolute imperative of a loop setup is res>pump> whatever else after.

 

[LiquidCesium]

Hang on...

I DO intend on doing video editing AND i plan on Flash animation, that and i plan on recording thing on the computer in 1080p of sorts.

That is why im after the 64Gb of ram, AND the 3930K (which to my knowledge is one of the few Intel processors that supports that much)

I Intended to use the Asus RAMPAGE IV EXTREME Mobo at one point, but i considered the EVGA board to cut costs in in some areas (this is why i am planning on the 770 vs the 780 which would add roughly $600 More to my costs)

I do like your analogy on the 4760X but however, untill the actual chip comes out AND is tested, no one knows if its gonna be a night and day difference, or if it will be a POS.

As far as the MASSIVE wattage goes, im going for a modular PSU, on top of that i plan on adding alot of addons to this buil, from lighting, to serious amount of fans (And fan controllers and temp monitors) to a simple ODD

As far as the Liquid/Air/Radiator solution goes, Thanks Buzz247 you got a good point and i think i know where to go on this one. i also intend to use EC6 XSPC Blood Red coolant. but you make a really good point with the resviour, it really dosent matter... ill consider that when i build the loop.

 

[Buzz247]

this is why i am planning on the 770 vs the 780 which would add roughly $600 More to my costs)

I think you misunderstood his recommendation on this - tri sli 770 vs dual sli 780 - cost would be comparative at approx 1200..

What he was referring to was bandwidth of card design. Dual 780 will actually perform better than tri 770, due to bandwidth limitation of comparatively. In addition, you are getting more CUDA cores, which given your explanation of usage, would be of far more value. High RAM capacity of vid cards really only comes into play when using 3 or more monitors, or 3d rendering. Given the higher bandwidth of design, the increased CUDA cores, as 780 3gb dual sli will out perform a 770 4Gb tri sli. In fact, it is a common misconception that linking more vram improves what is available. That is NOT how sli and crossfire work. 3 770 4gb does not = 12gb vram. It is still 4gb vram effectively, with faster processing power shared over multiple gpu, and faster translation communication between cards. Therefore, only underlining the importance for your usage of faster gpu processing power and more CUDAs

Side note: few boards will support tri sli at full 16x. it usually is more of a 16x/8x/8x, or more commonly 8x/8x/8x. However, a number of boards will support 16x/16x. so again.... better performance

 

[LiquidCesium]

this is why i am planning on the 770 vs the 780 which would add roughly $600 More to my costs)

I think you misunderstood his recommendation on this - tri sli 770 vs dual sli 780 - cost would be comparative at approx 1200..

What he was referring to was bandwidth of card design. Dual 780 will actually perform better than tri 770, due to bandwidth limitation of comparatively. In addition, you are getting more CUDA cores, which given your explanation of usage, would be of far more value. High RAM capacity of vid cards really only comes into play when using 3 or more monitors, or 3d rendering. Given the higher bandwidth of design, the increased CUDA cores, as 780 3gb dual sli will out perform a 770 4Gb tri sli. In fact, it is a common misconception that linking more vram improves what is available. That is NOT how sli and crossfire work. 3 770 4gb does not = 12gb vram. It is still 4gb vram effectively, with faster processing power shared over multiple gpu, and faster translation communication between cards. Therefore, only underlining the importance for your usage of faster gpu processing power and more CUDAs

Side note: few boards will support tri sli at full 16x. it usually is more of a 16x/8x/8x, or more commonly 8x/8x/8x. However, a number of boards will support 16x/16x. so again.... better performance

Ok, Thank you for clearing up that bit of confusion, and i do know that most boards dont handle 3 way SLI well, but now that i know that he meant dual... ok. and thanks for blowing my mind there, and you and The Troll are right, it was the same arguement when my friend said to go with a titian vs 3 680's, in all honesty a $1000 graphics card is NOT worth it, and i decided upon the 770, i have checked a few of my trusted sites and it does appear the jump from the 770 to the 780 is HUGE, thanks for making me realize that.

So do you think going with a ASUS ROG mobo would be better?

 

[Buzz247]

i will say this, a titan is nice, but for what you do, friend was wrong -single titan < dual 780 (edit just saw the tri 680, but either way lol 2x780 tops all option for you lol)

well ROG vs EVGA eh? I went thru this sort of battle not long ago myself. Wond up getting a board i never considered prior because of how i approached it. I took each of the baords, listed ports available, handling of PCI channel (switching chips or not), type of net chip, etc etc etc. compared pros and cons of both. Began to realize both were actually lacking what I REALLY wanted/needed and went hunting for that and came across a totally different version lol. Point is, Higher end boards are all quite capable, so it boils down to the details of each board and what becomes important to your needs/wants. I can't say one is better than the other. devil is in the details. See what has features that you will actually utilize and not just "hey look what this can do" fluff that is not useful to you

 

[LiquidCesium]

Thanks for the help guys, this is definitely food for thought and you too buzz you've solve many of my questions. ill do what you said on the motherboards... this will REALLY be interesting.

 

[Buzz247]

Keep us up to date! curious to see where it takes ya. When i built mine, was vasilating between ROG LGA1155 z77 & EVGA Sniper - and then low and behold fell in love with the AsRock Extreme11 Z77 - never saw it comin til i really evaluated what i felt was important

 

[LiquidCesium]

Yeah, ill be sure to keep you guys up to date on this! I'll be sure to remember your guy's usernames! I'll send you guys a PM when i can... it may be a couple months till i start but ill let you know!