Good gaming card for z400.

[Guest]

Hi,

I am putting some bits together to make a new PC. It will be based around a HP z400 with 1TB SSD (Raid 0), 3TD HDD and 24GB Ram. I am expecting this to perform quite well apart from the graphics card which is currently a quadro 4000. I am looking to replace this with something a bit more game friendly. The issue is coming down to power.

The Z400 has a 475 W PSU. There is an optional 600W PSU but this is discontinued and getting hold of one in the UK is silly money - if anyone has them in stock at all. The z400 does not take a standard PSU (wiring of the 24 pin plug is different - I have hints a standard can be re-wired but not enough to do it) so putting a conventional one in there is not really an option. I have also looked at the possibility of the separate GPU boosters but as I live in the UK they are again silly money by the time you get one over here, VAT, import dues, "processing fee" etc.

So .. looking at what is available I am thinking of a 670GTX. HP recommend a max of 150W for a graphics card and looking at reviews the 670 seems to be under that for all things except high load when the peak varies but it is all around the 160W-170W. I am wondering if the extra 20W will push the PSU over the edge. I know there will be safe margins etc built in so I was hoping I will be able to get away with it. From power calculators it seems the total consumption for a Z400 comes somewhere around 400W-410W with a 670 put in as the card - a bit close to the 475W Rated capacity but I am hoping HP put a big safety in there to allow for idiots like me. it will also not be under this sort of stress all the time - just during games.

So ...

1) does the considerable wisdom of Toms HWS think I can get away with this?

2) What is the lowest consuming 670GTX out there? Is it possible to underclock a 670 to reduce power consumption a little - it should still be a massive performance leap?

3) I have some PCI/PCI-E USB cards - will adding these in tip the balance? I can leave them out or put less in (I have 4) if the draw will be too much with them.

Sorry for the long post but I wanted people to know I was not just asking without searching and doing my homework first as well as give all the information without 100 questions.

Kevin.

 

[IInuyasha74]

1) I am sure I don't qualify as "Toms HWS considerable wisdom", but I would say yes you can get away with it. Most parts in your system usually use less power than they say. Not by a great amount, but by a watt or two. The GPU and CPU can use significantly less power than they say, so while I think you are right at the limit of what your PSU can do, you should be fine. Make sure you have the appropriate PCI-E connectors.

I would advise if you can to get a Nvidia760 instead if you can. It will perform about the same, and should use a touch less power and is priced similarly.

2) I am not sure honestly.

3)They may tip the balance. Try with them, if it doesn't work remove them and try again.

 

[Guest]

Hi,

thanks for the reply. Any help/advice is gratefully received. It sounds like you are thinking the same as me - it's a little more than I should but I'll probably get away with it. From further research it looks like the GPU can be underclocked to reduce consumption. I think I would prefer this option because sooner or later I would hope to come across a 600W PSU then I can overclock instead of underclock.

I was also at my local computer shop today picking up some bits and asked them about a supplementary PSUs for graphics cards. They think they will be able to get one and should hear in a day or two. Sounds like it will be £60ish which is a price I will be happy to pay for peace of mind.

It seems that the PSU has an over current protection built in and will just shut down if you draw too much so that is a comfort (assuming it all works as it should).

I think I will build with the 2 SSDs and video card - nothing else in there so I can underclock form the get go. I can the add the HDD - DVD - PCIs etc and hopefully remain safe etc. Does this sound like a sensible way forward?

Kevin

 

[IInuyasha74]

What kind of CPU do you have?

For that price, make sure they give you a good one. Should be at that price

That is good, but I think you are understanding it a little different than it is. The typical PSU at 500w actually pulls about 600w of power probably, and 100w of it is completely lost and wasted as heat. Your PSU will be similar pulling around 550w probably and losing 90w of it to heat. If the parts try to pull more than the rated maximum of 475w the computer will shut down because some part will become unstable. It may also just freeze or have other issues.

The Over Current Protection built into PSU's is related to a power surge usually when more than the average amount of 550w is pulled into the unit. The unit has one of two options at that time. If it does not have Over Current protection, then several if not all of the parts in your computer would likely be fried. If it has Over Current Protection, it has a sort of fuse built in that will blow and the PSU will be dead and it will never work again, but all of your other parts will be fine.

I think its going a little too far but a smart idea. Start with the SSD's and the HDD and DVD and the CPU and everything and the Graphics card, only remove the extra PCI devices. Try to boot and if its fine, try running a game to make the card pull extra power. If it freezes or shuts down, go try to lower voltage on your CPU, underclocking it as needed. Try again, if this does not work, remove the DVD drive, and then the HDD drive.

I just think its better to start in the middle, because you do not run the risk of damaging anything by doing this, and if it works fine you will save yourself a lot of time having to work your way back up slowly adding devices. Of course it could cost you more time if it fails, but I think you will be okay. Good lucky

 

[IInuyasha74]

+1 for a GTX 760 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DHW4HXY/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B00DHW4HXY&linkCode=as2&tag=b0b929-20

Yes indeed. The 760 would give equal or better performance while using slightly less power so if you can buy it where you are at, it would be the better choice

 

[Guest]

Hi.

I am in the UK which does not help getting some of the more interesting stuff like 600W z400 PSUs or graphics boosters.

I did have a look on e-bay and for whatever reason over here the 760 is actually more expensive than the 670 so I would end up paying more for less - though I do appreciate the power consumption drop as this is after all the point of this thread.

I do not need to commit yet and still have a couple of bits to sell to fund the card anyhow so I do have a bit of time to wait and see if the local shop can get me a booster - this should hopefully mean I can get the 670 and run safely even with overclock. Given the £25-£30 price difference between the two cards it will mean I can get the faster card and the booster for only £30 more.

I guess my main fear is ending up with a card that cannot play tomorrows games. I know it's a never ending loop but I would like to put my self as far ahead of the curve as possible.

I do appreciate all the help and to be honest I had not considered the 760 before so I'll go read the reviews on it and see how it looks.

Kevin

 

[IInuyasha74]

Hi.

I am in the UK which does not help getting some of the more interesting stuff like 600W z400 PSUs or graphics boosters.

I did have a look on e-bay and for whatever reason over here the 760 is actually more expensive than the 670 so I would end up paying more for less - though I do appreciate the power consumption drop as this is after all the point of this thread.

I do not need to commit yet and still have a couple of bits to sell to fund the card anyhow so I do have a bit of time to wait and see if the local shop can get me a booster - this should hopefully mean I can get the 670 and run safely even with overclock. Given the £25-£30 price difference between the two cards it will mean I can get the faster card and the booster for only £30 more.

I guess my main fear is ending up with a card that cannot play tomorrows games. I know it's a never ending loop but I would like to put my self as far ahead of the curve as possible.

I do appreciate all the help and to be honest I had not considered the 760 before so I'll go read the reviews on it and see how it looks.

Kevin

I am surprised. I thought the UK PC market would be equal to that in the USA.

The 760 is a small percentage worse than the 670, but its like 1-5%. The 760 an beat the 670 if it is overclocked a bit...
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7103/nvidia-geforce-gtx-760-review/17
but I can completely understand not wanting to do that and just get the card that right off has better performance right off.

Well you are not quite putting yourself a far ahead a possible, but I wouldn't worry about it too much. I don't know if you are one who absolutely has to have maxed settings to play, but as long as you are willing to drop a little bit, like from Ultra to High settings for example, I don't think anything coming out soon will put too much strain on these cards.
My 7850 is a good bit weaker, it is about like a 660 from Nvidia. I have to drop a few settings in Tomb Raider and I am not worried at all about having trouble playing next yeas games. Since before the end of 2014 I plan to get a second one, I am not worried about games at all really till sometime in 2015 even cause I am pretty positive I will still play on high, and I will be pretty shocked when I finally have to start dropping some settings to "Better" or "Normal".

 

[Guest]

OK - decision made ...

If by the time I am ready to buy I have been able to get a 600W PSU, find out details on how to re-wire a standard one or get hold of a graphics booster I will get a 670 and over clock it ... If I have not then I will get a 760 that has a good track record for over clocking and then when I get am able to sort the power issue one way or the other I will dabble in overclocking that. Unless of course someone else has a better idea...

As to UK and US being the same - they generally are with the odd little surprise popping up now and then. Things that are hard to find in the US such as these boosters are next to impossible. The odd thing is that one of the people that make them (FSP) seem to be based in the UK. My wife is American (Texas gal) so if I can find one on E-bay cheap I can have it shipped to the inlaws and she can bring it back next time she is over there to avoid all that import duty stuff.

Thanks for all the help - here to happy gaming.

Kevin

P.S. - just a thought - what are peoples thoughts on a separate 300W ish standard PSU to power the video? I have seen many people report success and as long as you follow certain recommendations (make sure they both turn on together, power a couple of the drives to keep a load on the 5V line etc) There seems to many more success reports then people saying their PC blew up. Now that could be because the Pc blew up and they don't have a PC to post with but i doubt it's that alone...

 

[IInuyasha74]

OK - decision made ...

If by the time I am ready to buy I have been able to get a 600W PSU, find out details on how to re-wire a standard one or get hold of a graphics booster I will get a 670 and over clock it ... If I have not then I will get a 760 that has a good track record for over clocking and then when I get am able to sort the power issue one way or the other I will dabble in overclocking that. Unless of course someone else has a better idea...

As to UK and US being the same - they generally are with the odd little surprise popping up now and then. Things that are hard to find in the US such as these boosters are next to impossible. The odd thing is that one of the people that make them (FSP) seem to be based in the UK. My wife is American (Texas gal) so if I can find one on E-bay cheap I can have it shipped to the inlaws and she can bring it back next time she is over there to avoid all that import duty stuff.

Thanks for all the help - here to happy gaming.

Kevin

P.S. - just a thought - what are peoples thoughts on a separate 300W ish standard PSU to power the video? I have seen many people report success and as long as you follow certain recommendations (make sure they both turn on together, power a couple of the drives to keep a load on the 5V line etc) There seems to many more success reports then people saying their PC blew up. Now that could be because the Pc blew up and they don't have a PC to post with but i doubt it's that alone...

I think that sounds like a good idea for what to do
Either way it goes you will have great performance in gaming.

One side note since you have family in Texas. That being the case, you may be better off to order it from Newegg, since you will probably save money and have her bring it back with her. She could even order it while there if need be, they usually ship big items like that in 3 days. Just an idea that may help save some extra money.

As for the separate PSU I personally don't recommend it. It just seems a bad idea to me, and the GPU's we have been talking about need a high number of amps on the 12 volt rail. The 760 asks for 30 amps on a 12 volt rail. It will probably work with less, but to figure the power 30ampsX12volt=360watts. Chances are the 300w PSU won't be cut out for it. It just gives me a bad feeling.

 

[IInuyasha74]

Sorry just wanted to come back and say I am not 100% sure on that last bit, honestly I have been confused why the card is asking for 30amps on a 12 volt rail. This doesn't make any sense to me since the PCIE-6pin connector can only supply 75 watts of power. So I am not the best person to go with on this one, it could be just another way to try to insure your PSU has enough power. Still, best to ask around a little.

 

[IInuyasha74]

Sorry just wanted to come back and say I am not 100% sure on that last bit, honestly I have been confused why the card is asking for 30amps on a 12 volt rail. This doesn't make any sense to me since the PCIE-6pin connector can only supply 75 watts of power. So I am not the best person to go with on this one, it could be just another way to try to insure your PSU has enough power. Still, best to ask around a little.

 

[Guest]

Well after much deliberation I decided to buy a 600W PSU. Cost £100 which is a bit steep for 600W but I will hopefully offset some of that from selling the old one. I figured this will also let me buy the card I really wanted and OC it a bit to boot.

Thank you all for your help and thoughts on it. In the end it came down the the advice of a good woman (my wife) who rightly pointed out I would not be happy with a lesser card or a power supply that might blow and take expensive parts with it.

Kevin.

 

[Guest]

Well after much deliberation I decided to buy a 600W PSU. Cost £100 which is a bit steep for 600W but I will hopefully offset some of that from selling the old one. I figured this will also let me buy the card I really wanted and OC it a bit to boot.

Thank you all for your help and thoughts on it. In the end it came down the the advice of a good woman (my wife) who rightly pointed out I would not be happy with a lesser card or a power supply that might blow and take expensive parts with it.

Kevin.