Nevinyrral¹s Disk and Elephant Guide

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Hello,

I'm curious about the interaction between the destroy effect of
Nevinyrral¹s Disk and the "put into graveyard" triggered effect of
Elephant Guide.

If in play we have a creature enchanted by the Elephant Guide and the
Disk is in play and untapped, what happens when the Disk is activated?

Will the Elephant Guide's effect trigger when the enchanted creature is
put in the graveyard, or since the enchantment is also destroyed (at the
same time?) does it not trigger since it is no longer in play?

Or something else?

Nevinyrral¹s Disk
4  
Artifact  
Nevinyrral¹s Disk comes into play tapped.
1, T: Destroy all artifacts, creatures, and enchantments. 

Elephant Guide 
2G  
Enchantment ‹ Aura  
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature gets +3/+3.
When enchanted creature is put into a graveyard, put a 3/3 green
Elephant creature token into play.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 19:44:56 -0600, Rudolf <rthered@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>I'm curious about the interaction between the destroy effect of
>Nevinyrral¹s Disk and the "put into graveyard" triggered effect of
>Elephant Guide.

If the Guide's creature gets put into a graveyard because the Disk destroyed
it, that triggers the Guide. The Guide is getting destroyed at the same
time, notice; it still gets to trigger, because it says it triggers off
of something leaving play. So both the Guide and the creature go to the
graveyard, usually along with the Disk too, and the Guide triggers; then the
Disk's ability finishes resolving and leaves the stack; then state-based
effects are checked for. Then the Guide's triggered ability gets put on the
stack, to resolve later.

If the Guide's creature got regenerated beforehand, or if it's indestructible,
so that when the Disk says "DESTROY YOU!" it doesn't go to the graveyard, then
the Guide won't trigger. (The Guide itself will still go to the graveyard,
because it's getting destroyed by the Disk also.)

>If in play we have a creature enchanted by the Elephant Guide and the
>Disk is in play and untapped, what happens when the Disk is activated?

Nothing much right then: the Disk's controller pays 1 and taps the Disk.

Later, when the Disk's ability -resolves-, rather a lot happens, see above.

>Will the Elephant Guide's effect trigger when the enchanted creature is
>put in the graveyard, or since the enchantment is also destroyed (at the
>same time?) does it not trigger since it is no longer in play?

The former. Rule 410.10d is one place you can look to have this explained;
the Guide's triggered ability is a leaves-play-triggered ability, so gets to
look at the game state just BEFORE enchanted creature leaves play to determine
whether it exists and whether it triggers. This is because if it looked at the
game state AFTERWARDS, it would itself quite possibly no longer be in play
- as in fact happens in your example - and wouldn't have its ability. So
'after the event' isn't a good game state to look at. Same logic goes for
abilities that trigger off someone _losing_ control of a permanent, since
"you" is going to be different afterwards than beforehand...

Dave
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