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Valve: Steam Machines Won't Be Only Nvidia Hardware

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October 10, 2013 10:09:15 AM

So far, I can barely contain my indifference. How else can I describe launching overpriced PC hardware to play a seriously reduced Steam game collection. 3...2...1...meh.......
Score
-5
October 10, 2013 10:14:43 AM

back_by_demand said:
So far, I can barely contain my indifference. How else can I describe launching overpriced PC hardware to play a seriously reduced Steam game collection. 3...2...1...meh.......


Mmm, maybe we can look at this in a different way: the largest pc games distributor will now build its own distro of linux and work with all major hardware manufacturers to ensure the platform has broad support of next generation games.
Score
22
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October 10, 2013 10:15:04 AM

I'm more interested in the evolution of Linux (as Steam OS is based upon should bring the Linux Community to better gaming experience in that of more games of AAA kind and not just the free and/or clones of the Windows games). If Steam OS is optimized to work with any type of hardware as they kindly try to say then the type of hardware that are in SteamBox's is of less importance as the opportunity of OpenGL to thrive once more.
Score
11
a b 4 Gaming
October 10, 2013 10:16:52 AM

Xi3 again?
Score
-6
October 10, 2013 10:20:03 AM

Like I mentioned in the initial hardware spec announcement, the Valve-designed enclosure is tiny - and will likely be starved for air for cooling - unless they significantly underclock/volt the GPUs or have a really efficient cooling solution.

Based on the Titan-sporting Tiki, which has a water-cooled CPU only and is about the smallest (volume-wise) commercial form factor for serious gaming that I'm aware of, I'm expecting that these boxes will probably be fairly loud under load.
Score
-6
a b 4 Gaming
a b À AMD
October 10, 2013 10:31:30 AM

back_by_demand said:
So far, I can barely contain my indifference. How else can I describe launching overpriced PC hardware to play a seriously reduced Steam game collection. 3...2...1...meh.......


While its not mentioned, you can also format the HDD and install Windows on it and use Steam in big picture mode until devs catch up to the SteamOS distro. I don't expect all the devs to but I would imagine they will want a piece of the SteamBox market.
Score
8
October 10, 2013 10:48:07 AM

I still don't get the excitement, we already know SteamOS will install on PC hardware, if you already run Steam on Windows then you know it will run SteamOS. What bores me is all the excitement over reference hardware for machines that will cost double a capable games PC and gimp your collection
Score
0
October 10, 2013 10:52:10 AM

I'll wake up to the idea of this when I can stream my main rig to a Steam box. I am predicting that Nivida gpu based rigs will have the ability to do this 1st, then maybe AMD gpus. I have an AMD gpu so....not holding my breath.

A 100 buck box that plays casual games and streams from my main PC to the TV seems like a win. I'll stay half interested.
Score
0
a b 4 Gaming
October 10, 2013 11:58:51 AM

Intel's getting into the GPU market?
Score
-8
a b 4 Gaming
October 10, 2013 12:03:21 PM

back_by_demand said:
I still don't get the excitement, we already know SteamOS will install on PC hardware, if you already run Steam on Windows then you know it will run SteamOS. What bores me is all the excitement over reference hardware for machines that will cost double a capable games PC and gimp your collection


back, you troll nonstop and spread around misinformation about topics you know absolutely nothing about. The price and specifications have only been released for the Piston and that's not even an official Steam box. No one knows how they will be priced or perform yet. Not everyone wants to shell out $100 for an overpriced and overrated, and overbloated operating system just to play games.

Also, Tom's needs to stop posting pictures of the Piston as it is being associated with Valve Steam Machines which it is not.
Score
6
October 10, 2013 12:21:11 PM

The SteamBox is a cool idea and I can see it appealing to some people. Most of us are the build-your-own-pc type so we're not going to buy one of them. As mentioned by a couple of people here, I'm mostly interested in seeing increased support for games in Linux. If this somehow takes off and becomes even half as successful as the Xbox/PS then it could mean big things for Linux, no to mentioned vastly increasing the Linux consumer user base.
Score
1
a b 4 Gaming
a b À AMD
October 10, 2013 12:28:46 PM

imo the biggest problem with the steam 'console' isn't the lack of linux games or nvidia's incessant p.r. on how they're still relevant in pc gaming or amd's gpus. it's intel's cpu price (and lack of linux games). haswell is so badly sku-ed and priced that it'll drive up pc console's overall cost to way over an xbone(R) or ps4. for approximately the price of a core i7 4770 and a $150 gfx card you might be able to buy a whole new console. amd and nvidia can price-battle in discreet gfx market and drive prices down, but the cpu market is the opposite. and intel Never drops cpu prices(lowering 5-20 bucks make no difference). if steam pcs consoles don't sell under regular gaming pc prices, they won't be worth getting. it'd be better and easier to just install steam o.s. in an existing gaming pc and dual-boot instead.

amd's fx cpus pretty much quit themselves when valve decided for an xbone(R) sized enclosure dimensions and 450w 80+ gold rated psu. hopefully steamroller fx, if they come out, have better luck.

ubercake said:
Intel's getting into the GPU market?

all gpus: intel is the market leader, with 61%~ share, followed by amd's 21%~ and nvidia's 18%~. couldn't tell if you were being sarcastic.
Score
1
a b 4 Gaming
a b À AMD
October 10, 2013 12:31:52 PM

Till we see the pricing and performance reviews, I will continue to Upgrade my machine. the way it seems to be put here on Toms makes it almost sound like a glorified console. Yes I know it's actually PC hardware but hell I have one of them already.
Score
0
a b 4 Gaming
October 10, 2013 12:34:58 PM

de5_Roy said:


ubercake said:
Intel's getting into the GPU market?

all gpus: intel is the market leader, with 61%~ share, followed by amd's 21%~ and nvidia's 18%~. couldn't tell if you were being sarcastic.

I seriously didn't think they would consider low-end graphics bundled with a CPU as a GPU. How many of us are not using our Intel CPU's GPU? In the land of the laptop, sure I'll use Intel Graphics 2000 or 4000 or whatever. But on a serious gaming machine? No way in heck.
Score
1
October 10, 2013 12:41:34 PM

... ok, I can't see the point at all anymore.
A certified box that's guaranteed to run all the available titles, fine.

But this, is not being able to run anything except Steam offerings the only benefit?
Because that's not a benefit.
Score
1
a b 4 Gaming
a b À AMD
October 10, 2013 12:44:43 PM

ubercake said:

I seriously didn't think they would consider low-end graphics bundled with a CPU as a GPU. How many of us are not using our Intel CPU's GPU? In the land of the laptop, sure I'll use Intel Graphics 2000 or 4000 or whatever. But on a serious gaming machine? No way in heck.

if a pc or laptop has igpu or on board gpu and discreet gfx, it's counted as having 2 gpus. discreet marketshares are very different. moreover, non-x86 gpus, ultramobile socs were not counted afaik. tablets like surface pro might have been exceptions.
i guess even when you buy the cpu and the discreet gaming gfx card, you still pay for the igpu and that's why it's being counted. or something like that.
Score
-1
October 10, 2013 1:38:34 PM

Murissokah said:
back_by_demand said:
So far, I can barely contain my indifference. How else can I describe launching overpriced PC hardware to play a seriously reduced Steam game collection. 3...2...1...meh.......


Mmm, maybe we can look at this in a different way: the largest pc games distributor will now build its own distro of linux and work with all major hardware manufacturers to ensure the platform has broad support of next generation games.


There is no sign of them having the capacity to revive OpenGL, and without it it's just vaporware.

It's been a huge mess so far, with 1k$ Piston, then hinting "SteamMachine" is Intel/nVidia box and now suddenly Intel becoming a GPU manufacturer (yeah, I know they do integrated crap).

It took Microsoft YEARS with all of its skilled workers and insane resources to get DirectX to current levels. I wouldn't count on Valve being able to match, let alone beat that.

And IF there is no serious push to Linux gaming, I'd have no problem with buying games from Windows Store, if price is right.
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0
October 10, 2013 2:10:27 PM

Trolling with piston pictures again?
Score
1
October 10, 2013 2:36:41 PM

I think a lot of people are expecting all of their Steam games to run on SteamOS or a Steam Machine. That's not going to happen for a lot of Windows DirectX games. Games that are DirectX 9 can be emulated with Wine (it's not an emulator, yeah, whatever), but I don't think Wine supports DX10 or 11. If Valve hasn't solved this problem, or secured a DirectX license (unlikely), you're left with the same options you currently have for Linux gaming -- you can play OpenGL games or DX9 Windows games through Wine.
Score
0
a b 4 Gaming
October 10, 2013 3:03:10 PM

hapkido said:
I think a lot of people are expecting all of their Steam games to run on SteamOS or a Steam Machine. That's not going to happen for a lot of Windows DirectX games. Games that are DirectX 9 can be emulated with Wine (it's not an emulator, yeah, whatever), but I don't think Wine supports DX10 or 11. If Valve hasn't solved this problem, or secured a DirectX license (unlikely), you're left with the same options you currently have for Linux gaming -- you can play OpenGL games or DX9 Windows games through Wine.


Anyone expecting that have no idea what a SteamBox or Steam OS even is. Just because the Xbox is made by Microsoft do people expect it to run games for Windows? No. Of course it won't run Windows games, and Valve never claimed it would. Just like any console, developers will have to develop or port to Steam OS and there's nothing wrong with OpenGL as the PS4 is already going to be using it and an OS that shares a lot in common with Linux. Getting games to Steam OS will be a relatively simple prospect for devs, especially now that everything is x86.
Score
1
October 10, 2013 4:04:53 PM

JD88 said:
hapkido said:
I think a lot of people are expecting all of their Steam games to run on SteamOS or a Steam Machine. That's not going to happen for a lot of Windows DirectX games. Games that are DirectX 9 can be emulated with Wine (it's not an emulator, yeah, whatever), but I don't think Wine supports DX10 or 11. If Valve hasn't solved this problem, or secured a DirectX license (unlikely), you're left with the same options you currently have for Linux gaming -- you can play OpenGL games or DX9 Windows games through Wine.


Anyone expecting that have no idea what a SteamBox or Steam OS even is. Just because the Xbox is made by Microsoft do people expect it to run games for Windows? No. Of course it won't run Windows games, and Valve never claimed it would. Just like any console, developers will have to develop or port to Steam OS and there's nothing wrong with OpenGL as the PS4 is already going to be using it and an OS that shares a lot in common with Linux. Getting games to Steam OS will be a relatively simple prospect for devs, especially now that everything is x86.


The difference being consoles have really large market shares. There are fewer PC gamers than either Xbox or PS gamers, and all Linux distros are only ~1.5% of PC users. Developing for PC is already an afterthought compared to consoles, and I don't see studios making specific SteamOS versions of games. It's possible, but I'm skeptical because I don't think there's a lot of incentive to.
Score
1
October 10, 2013 5:03:42 PM

For those who don't understand the hype around the SteamBox and SteamOS: Linux users have long demanded, hoped, and dreamed of not just getting everyone's leftovers. They have been hoping that some big player in the game - so to speak - would help bring real attention to getting games on their platform and once and for all end their need to think about Windows.

For those who can't understand the skepticism: Linux is a very small part of the market (yes real numbers of people, but still small in terms of percentages). There is limited understanding of how much power can be squeezed out from OS optimization and specialization. There is real doubt over how much financial savings one will get relative either to a console like the Xbox or Sony, or building a regular Windows PC. And there is a lack of clarity regarding what the game library will look like (will they get access to the DX coding? Or will devs have to develop directly for the OS/System).

Both sides have points. If you want a pure PC gaming system the SteamOS idea at the very least could save you money on buying an OS, and would theoretically be the basis of the ultimate gaming rig. But at the same time there are a lot of potential flaws and pitfalls, and it wouldn't be the first time disappointment came knocking. Ouya was hailed as a great new era in gaming, yet I doubt I've heard a thing about it since right after it was launched. Lots of people promise a lot of things that they can't deliver on.
Score
0
a b 4 Gaming
October 10, 2013 5:18:24 PM

The market share of the SteamBox and Steam OS will depend upon how well it is marketed and distributed by Valve and its hardware partners. If this thing is branded well and is on the shelf next to the PS4 and Xbone, I think it could succeed. If knowledge of it is limited to those who read tech sites then it's doomed to failure. This thing needs to be advertised and pushed hard for the holidays. Here's to hoping Valve was able to get some major OEMs behind them who have the distribution and marketing capability to make it work.

And the price needs to be right, which is + or - $500 with similar performance to the other consoles. Which I think is doable considering you could build a $600 gaming PC that performs about the same as the consoles (if not better) considering you don't have to pay for an OS.
Score
0
October 10, 2013 10:43:00 PM

they need to PUSH linux. i mean PUSH. this is the ONLY way it will work. valve needs to have a tutorial on how to dual boot with linux, make it dummy proof. make it so the average joe can do it. sell a cheap USB with it on it, with all instructions. a small investment like this will pay out big time in a few years
Score
0
October 10, 2013 11:45:06 PM

The tom's community is weird. First, we spent years complaining about M$ and how the only reason we're using Windows is for games, and now that someone is trying to provide an alternative, we're going to hate on it, without knowing the full story.

The official spec has not even reached Beta yet, the OS will be released for public scrutiny by the end of the year, and the controller is something no one's attempted to commercialize before.

We should seriously wait for the platform to be finalized and not jump to conclusions.

I'm optimistic, rather have Valve guiding the PC's future than M$ at this point.

JD88 said:
back_by_demand said:
I still don't get the excitement, we already know SteamOS will install on PC hardware, if you already run Steam on Windows then you know it will run SteamOS. What bores me is all the excitement over reference hardware for machines that will cost double a capable games PC and gimp your collection


back, you troll nonstop and spread around misinformation about topics you know absolutely nothing about. The price and specifications have only been released for the Piston and that's not even an official Steam box. No one knows how they will be priced or perform yet. Not everyone wants to shell out $100 for an overpriced and overrated, and overbloated operating system just to play games.

Also, Tom's needs to stop posting pictures of the Piston as it is being associated with Valve Steam Machines which it is not.

This, a thousand times over.

Everyone also forgets that what costs $600 today, will likely cost $400 next year, especially when mass-produced.
Score
0
a b 4 Gaming
a b À AMD
October 11, 2013 12:44:15 AM

hapkido said:
I think a lot of people are expecting all of their Steam games to run on SteamOS or a Steam Machine. That's not going to happen for a lot of Windows DirectX games. Games that are DirectX 9 can be emulated with Wine (it's not an emulator, yeah, whatever), but I don't think Wine supports DX10 or 11. If Valve hasn't solved this problem, or secured a DirectX license (unlikely), you're left with the same options you currently have for Linux gaming -- you can play OpenGL games or DX9 Windows games through Wine.


The point is that it can stream games from your main windows PC, so it doesnt need wine or anything. The steam box ,for me, should be designed with lower end hardware, so it can play some native linux games, and stream more intensive games from your main PC to your tv. i would be interested, but just in steam OS, not a Steam box. Most steam users know how to build their own PC, and probably have a 2nd pc lying around from their last upgrade that they could use to install it on., which is what i plan to do with Steam OS.
Score
0
October 11, 2013 5:21:24 AM

JD88, who died and made you the forum police? It's hardly trolling, plus I don't need a listed price to know that the reference specs for the 300 machines are all going to be costly. The vast majority of my Steam collection ran perfectly well on the rig I owned prior to my current rig, a lowly Core2Duo with a Radeon X1950 and 2Gb ram. Seeing as the games available through SteamOS will be devoid of high-powered AAA titles and SteamOS should use much less system resources than Windows then remind me again why we should be excited about new spec hardware. Now if somebody from Valve were to issue a statement for "minimum system requirement" rather than a rather obvious attempt to sell new hardware it wouldn't seem so bad. I already have a fantastic rig and i'm sure the 10% of my collection that actually works will work very well, but for the people out there that have old hardware and don't want to buy new hardware, exactly how far down the food chain will it work?
Score
-1
a b 4 Gaming
October 11, 2013 7:47:59 AM

back_by_demand said:
JD88, who died and made you the forum police? It's hardly trolling, plus I don't need a listed price to know that the reference specs for the 300 machines are all going to be costly. The vast majority of my Steam collection ran perfectly well on the rig I owned prior to my current rig, a lowly Core2Duo with a Radeon X1950 and 2Gb ram. Seeing as the games available through SteamOS will be devoid of high-powered AAA titles and SteamOS should use much less system resources than Windows then remind me again why we should be excited about new spec hardware. Now if somebody from Valve were to issue a statement for "minimum system requirement" rather than a rather obvious attempt to sell new hardware it wouldn't seem so bad. I already have a fantastic rig and i'm sure the 10% of my collection that actually works will work very well, but for the people out there that have old hardware and don't want to buy new hardware, exactly how far down the food chain will it work?


Again, misinformation. What's your source that Steam OS will be devoid of AAA titles? At launch, perhaps but that remains to be seen.

As for the other part, you make a decent point. Old boxes could be turned into consoles for streaming and playing older Valve titles and so forth. The minimum specs for streaming especially would be important.
Score
0
October 11, 2013 10:23:42 AM

An old obsolete PC would be ideal, why is this OS being viewed as an opportunity to get a Haswell with a Titan? If you don't balk at the cost of a $1000 GPU then reservations over the cost of Windows disappear, because functionality is not even in question.
Score
-1
a b 4 Gaming
October 11, 2013 12:02:45 PM

Where it makes sense is at the $500-600 price point. You can build a PC that rivals the consoles for that amount if you aren't paying for the OS. Perhaps even best them if you are mass producing them. Don't need anything better than that until 4K TVs are prevalent anyway. Even then the other consoles won't be playing at that resolution.
Score
0
October 11, 2013 1:57:13 PM

JD88 said:
Where it makes sense is at the $500-600 price point. You can build a PC that rivals the consoles for that amount if you aren't paying for the OS. Perhaps even best them if you are mass producing them. Don't need anything better than that until 4K TVs are prevalent anyway. Even then the other consoles won't be playing at that resolution.


I don't see a Steam Machine making sense at all other than a secondary gaming PC/Console. There is absolutely no incentive for XB and PS players to switch to a PC-console that costs as much or more, and won't have titles like Battlefield 4.

What exactly is Valve doing new? They're influencing better Linux GPU driver support from Nvidia and AMD; and they're probably providing a more user-friendly Linux distro. I do think both of those things are great.

However, that doesn't change the fact most PC games use DirectX and Linux can't play DX10 and DX11 games. I don't see Valve having enough influence to sway EA and Activision to have their studios switch to OpenGL. And EA doesn't release their new games on Steam anyway.

If you mostly want to play Valve and id games, a Steam Machine will suit your needs. If you already have a gaming PC to stream from, hate EA, and want a second machine, a Steam Machine will suit your needs. For everyone else, they're better off either buying a console, or building their own Windows-based HTPC, IMO. That might change in the future, but that's the state of PC gaming right now.
Score
-1
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