Just Another GPU Dillema: 770 GTX vs. R9 290x

[DjDeathCool]

Okay, guys! I'm here with an all too common conundrum. I can't figure out what graphics card I should buy! I'm going to give you guys some back story on my build first, in hopes that it helps you figure out what I'm going for, and hopefully I'll get some good feedback and opinions!

Okay, so I'm doing this rig on a budget. I'm the kind of person who could never live with myself if I ended up dropping only a $1,000 on a gaming PC (at least at this point in the PC gaming market) but I can't even afford $1,000, much less $2,000. So, what I've decided to do is build my PC piece-by-piece. So far, I've purchased my case (Fractal Design Define XL R2), my PSU (Corsair CX750) and my motherboard (Asus Z87 Sabertooth). Now, since this is my rent paycheck, I'm not going to have very much money, so I only intend to pick up an 8GB stick of memory (I'll probably get another 8GB stick some time in December) this week. My next paycheck, I plan on buying an i7 4770k processor, and by that point I'll have a working computer once I gut my current POS for it's hard drives and the 9800 GTX+.

Speaking of video cards; since I actually have two paychecks in between rent days this month, I'm going to be using the entirety of my paycheck after next, plus the additional left over cash I've saved from today's and my next paycheck, to put towards a video card. By this point I should have a bona fide "next gen" gaming computer that will, theoretically, allow me to play "next gen" games like Battlefield 4 and Assassin's Creed 4 (these are just two really weak examples). I will continue to casually upgrade and improve my computer overtime. The first thing I plan on casually buying will be another 8GB of RAM in December, a 250GB SSD in January and a 3TB hard drive sometime in April-ish (Depending on the release of the 1080p Oculus Rift).

Side Note: I know that, for some people, talking about finances, or income in general, can be considered taboo. So I want to apologize to the people with the more delicate financial mannerisms. I'm just a broke guy, trying to build a decent gaming computer that he can be proud of.

TL;DR 1: I plan on buying my computer piece-by-piece, paycheck-by-paycheck. Hopefully, rounding up to workable gaming computer by the end of November.

That's the overall game plan that I'm looking at. There are some other things that I forgot and are probably worth mentioning. Like the fact that I plan on using my old 1440x900 LG desktop monitor. This will undoubtedly be upgraded for a new one but I haven't decided what kind or how many I want to upgrade to. It's probably just worth taking into consideration for my following questions.

Okay, while planning this build one of the biggest things I took into consideration was longevity. I understand that longevity is pretty elusive in the PC gaming world but I want to do my best to make sure I straddle the line between horsepower and expense constantly asking myself, "how long will this last me until I need to upgrade?" That was the main factor in my decision to go with the 4770k over the 4670k (hyper threading might not be overused in gaming today but comeback to me in two years, once the impact of PS4/XB1 development is felt, and then we can continue that conversation). I want to see at least 5 years of use out of my processor and motherboard before the sluggishness becomes unbearable.

With this in mind, my original choice for a video card was going to be the 780 GTX. This card seemed to be ahead of the curve in a way that, for a couple hundred dollars more, could give an extra year or two of longevity. After watching a video of a guy playing Battlefield 3 on 3 monitors at perfectly playable frame rates on a single 770 GTX my resolve was shaken and I did some further reading on the 770. Testimony about the 770 seemed to be glowingly positive. After looking at the price difference, my opinion started to sway towards the 770 and for the last week or so, I've been pretty set on it.

My new plan was to buy an Asus 770. I wasn't sure about how much VRAM I wanted, or needed, but it was definitely the card I wanted to pick up. Additionally, after nVidia announces their next line of GPUs next summer, and a sweeping price drop hits the 7xx line, I was going to pick up another 770 and have myself a nice SLI setup.(Once again in hopes of boosting my longevity at a budget price). The additional 770 would fit nicely with my incremental upgrade theme that I have set. I could wait a few months, buy another video card (this time at a cheaper price) and nearly double my GPU power. That was my plan... until today.

Today, the embargo lifted on the R9 290x. I'm pretty sure most of you already know but the reviews have been enthusiastic. The card would only be $50 more expensive than the 4GB model of the 770 with horsepower that rivals the 780/Titan. Along with that I would be buying into the Mantle program within the Radeon ecosystem. I think that Mantle sounds impressive but the scope of developer support seems a bit hazey at this point. The nVidia experience, 3D Vision (Yeah, I'm one of those crazy 3D people) and G-Sync (should I buy a G-Sync capable monitor) sound like much more solid prospects that don't need unconfirmed developer support to take advantage of. I, also, still have nightmares about my terrible experiences with the Saphire card I owned as a teenager and really wouldn't be overly enthusiastic about jumping the nVidia ship.

Realistically, I think I'm posting here because I want someone to talk me back into buying the 770. I'd really like to SLI in the future and the 770 fit nicely into the road map I had created for this evolving build. The stock 290x unit seems to be a bit of a wild card as far as heating and crossfire support is concerned and not being able to SLI/CF next summer would put a pretty serious dent in my master plan.

Side note: If you think I should go with the 770. What are your thoughts on VRAM? 2GB at $400-ish or 4GB at $450-500. I personally think that VRAM is going to become increasingly important as the aforementioned next gen development practices start affecting PC gaming more and more. Is there a technical reason not to go with 4GB beyond "VIDEOGAMES ONLY USE 1GB OF VRAM WHY WOULD YOU NEED MORE?"

I'd really like to see a wide swath of opinions from both sides. My indecision is killing me! I thank anyone, on either side, who contributes!!!

TL;DR 2: I don't know if I should get a 770 GTX now and buy another one in the summer after nVidia announces their new line. Or if I should buy an R9 290x because of DEM' BENCHMARK SCORESSS!

 

[DjDeathCool]

Wall of text is wall of text. Sorry, guys.

 

[rolandzhang3]

The 290x smokes the 770

 

[renz496]

Well just wait a bit until nvidia comes out with 780 Ti next month. We might see price dropping on 700 series as well. Anout mantle sure the performance increase sounds interesting but at this point we do not know if other game than BF4 will embrace it. On the pc side the developer still need to develop their games for directx at the very least so it will be playable on any pc. so if they want mantle for their game it will cost more money and time on their side since they have to make sure the game will work properly on both path. So far amd try to ease everyone by saying it was open even for nvidia to give the image that mantle might work with other hardware (maybe to encourage developer to adopt it since it might work with other hardware later).

 

[rolandzhang3]

^That's true, when there's more competition around the same price points, you'll generally see price drops

 

[DjDeathCool]

Well, as the post states, I'm not going to be buying a card until the end of November. So we'll see where we're at when that date comes. That being said I'm not holding out on any huge price drops. It seems unprobable since nVidia is known to be the stingier company of the two. I think a $100-$150 premium over Radeon is pretty standard for nVidia. So, I doubt there will be a massive price drop until nVidia's summer lineup is revealed.

 

[DudeMartin]

Ah. While others hate it, I personally love questions that have a wall of text. It really demonstrates that the person asking has put some thought into it and has a genuine question, rather than asking something just because they are too lazy to Google it (which is funny because that would take less time than posting and waiting for responses). Anyways, I am literarilly mulling over these exact two cards myself before I purchase my computer. Originally I was looking at the R9 280X, but I really wanted a nVidia card, plus some of the features (notably G-Sync and ShadowPlay, as you've mentioned) that nVidia cards offer have compelled me to go for the more expensive GTX 770. The discussion about the R9 290X prior to its embargo being lifted really created the impression that this card is going to be something out of this world. To be honest though, it performs on-par with the GTX Titan, except that the only thing it has going for it is the lower price point. The 290Xs that are out right now all look like reference models. The thing is, the reference model is making me uncomfortable about purchasing the card. For example, the card sounds like a leafblower under full load. It also heats up like crazy. It takes only a small amount of time before the card is running at 90+ degrees Celsius. While it is true that just a couple years ago nVidia cards were sometimes running at these temperatures, it still makes me uncomfortable seeing such high temperatures when the competition runs, on average, 20 degrees cooler. Oh, and it also draws a lot of power. So the way that I looked at the card was that it has awesome performance at a much lower price point than the competition (Titan), although the GTX 780 is very comparable in performance, at a much lower price than the Titan, and an acceptable $100 more than the 290X. The card also supports Mantle and has on-board audio. But that's about where the benefits end. The card draws more power than all other single GPUs. It is loud. And it heats up to high temperatures really quickly. It seems that AMD has sacrificed many aspects of the card's construction to produce a powerhouse. However, I find that the nVidia GPUs bring awesome performance but without sacrificing the construction quality. But most people still care about the performance of their card more than any other aspect of it. So I did critically look at the performance. And when I did some comparisons, I found it easy to justify the purchase of the GTX 770 over the R9 290X. Simple: it has a better price/performance ratio. I don't want to blow $500+ dollars on a graphics card, but I figured that if it was something absolutely extraordinary I might have considered it, but seeing as the GTX 770 is a better value anyways, I don't really feel compelled to purchase the 290X. Plus, if I want to upgrade in the future I can just SLI the 770s (which really have amazing performance in a two-way configuration). However, I would be afraid to Crossfire two R9 290Xs because I don't think I would be able to acquire the liquid nitrogen needed to cool the cards together. So my reasons for buying the GTX 770 are: the features (so excited for ShadowPlay!), more mature drivers, better price/performance (and in general, a lower price), lower power consumption, runs cooler, and runs quieter. Oh, and it's nVidia. The R9 290X is impressive purely in terms of performance, but in my opinion it is lacking in other aspects, especially for a flagship card. Oh, and about the VRAM. Right now, 2GB should still be enough to not hold back your card's performance. And when more than 2GB will be necessarily, you can just purchase another GTX 770 and SLI it like you wanted to anyways, and have your VRAM problem solved along with an awesome performance boost. Before others comment on this, I am aware that some 290X cards may come out with better aftermarket cooling solutions. However, right now, I am seeing multiple 290Xs by different manufacturers on Newegg and they're all reference models. I'm sure non-reference cards will be released in the future, but the reference models are all that we have to work with right now. Oh and I totally did not discuss the supposedly impending price reductions on some 700-series cards. Those just make the deal sweeter. If the GTX 780 gets dropped down from $650 to $550 then I would most likely buy a GTX 780. If it does not drop that much, I would probably go for the GTX 770 still, except it would be a better deal than it already is.

I hope this helps a little.

 

[No Im Spartacus]

Ive owned a radeon 7850 and I had driver issues playing games and it was a triple A titled game. I ended up going with a gtx 770 and had no driver issues. Between ati and nvidia I found that nvidia's drivers had fewer issues with games as compared to ati (in my experience).

The gtx 770 is a powerful card and it's far better priced compared to gtx 780. I live in Canada cost difference is 200 bucks and on average runs 10 frames faster...For the 780 your paying 20 bucks on average per frame difference between the two cards.

For a 1080p res I would suggest a 2 gig card...some people will argue that some games use more than that I.e. heavily modded skyrim. But with a gtx 770 2 gig I have had no issues.

If you plan on doing a larger res I would suggest a 4 gig model and I would also suggest sli as well.

 

[No Im Spartacus]

Having problems posting with phone.

 

[renz496]

If nvidia engaging actively in price war most likely amd that will not be able to sustain in the long period. Last time nvidia actively engaging price war with amd was with gtx460. Amd have to release their 6800 ahead of 6900 series just to counter nvidia. Then nvidia goes 'ninja'on amd 6900 by releasing their 580 and 570 first. Back then instead making 580 more expensive than 480 (since it is much more faster and consume a bit less than 480) the directly replace 480 and price 580 and 570 at the price of 480 and 470 (500 & 350). Back then many were expecting amd will continue to the price war but instead they just price their 6900 accordingly to the competition (380 for 6970 that slightly faster than 570). Since then i never see nvidia actively engaging price war with amd anymore.

 

[DjDeathCool]

Thanks for the post DudeMartin. I generally agree with almost all the points you bring up. The only thing I'd like to correct you on is the SLI. SLI doesn't double your memory pool. It's limited by the lowest common denominator.

 

[DudeMartin]

Thanks for the post DudeMartin. I generally agree with almost all the points you bring up. The only thing I'd like to correct you on is the SLI. SLI doesn't double your memory pool. It's limited by the lowest common denominator.

Cool. Thanks for clearing that up!

 

[DjDeathCool]

I agree Renz. I think the closest we're going to see to a price war is going to be the pack of free games you get with a 770 or 780.

 

[DjDeathCool]

I'd also like to say that I'm not sure what resolution I'm going to be running at. As of right now it's only going to be 1440x900 but when I upgrade I'm likely going to drop cash on a three monitor setup and would very much like to use all three for gaming. (Probably after the SLI)

 

[corvetteguy1994]

Well just wait a bit until nvidia comes out with 780 Ti next month. We might see price dropping on 700 series as well. Anout mantle sure the performance increase sounds interesting but at this point we do not know if other game than BF4 will embrace it. On the pc side the developer still need to develop their games for directx at the very least so it will be playable on any pc. so if they want mantle for their game it will cost more money and time on their side since they have to make sure the game will work properly on both path. So far amd try to ease everyone by saying it was open even for nvidia to give the image that mantle might work with other hardware (maybe to encourage developer to adopt it since it might work with other hardware later).

AMD said to wait till No vember because thats when all the developers are releasing there mantle support. AMD even put (a lot of them)

 

[corvetteguy1994]

Ive owned a radeon 7850 and I had driver issues playing games and it was a triple A titled game. I ended up going with a gtx 770 and had no driver issues. Between ati and nvidia I found that nvidia's drivers had fewer issues with games as compared to ati (in my experience).

The gtx 770 is a powerful card and it's far better priced compared to gtx 780. I live in Canada cost difference is 200 bucks and on average runs 10 frames faster...For the 780 your paying 20 bucks on average per frame difference between the two cards.Strange....I've been running all my builds with ATI/AMD cards since the 5870 and even now with my crossfire setup i have 0 issues.

For a 1080p res I would suggest a 2 gig card...some people will argue that some games use more than that I.e. heavily modded skyrim. But with a gtx 770 2 gig I have had no issues.

If you plan on doing a larger res I would suggest a 4 gig model and I would also suggest sli as well.

 

[renz496]

Well just wait a bit until nvidia comes out with 780 Ti next month. We might see price dropping on 700 series as well. Anout mantle sure the performance increase sounds interesting but at this point we do not know if other game than BF4 will embrace it. On the pc side the developer still need to develop their games for directx at the very least so it will be playable on any pc. so if they want mantle for their game it will cost more money and time on their side since they have to make sure the game will work properly on both path. So far amd try to ease everyone by saying it was open even for nvidia to give the image that mantle might work with other hardware (maybe to encourage developer to adopt it since it might work with other hardware later).

AMD said to wait till No vember because thats when all the developers are releasing there mantle support. AMD even put (a lot of them)

We will see when the times come. So far mantle only benefit for games that suppose to be heavy even on high end pc hardware. For game that much less demanding there might be no need for mantle because it only add to the game developement cost. And even with frostbite 3 will be compatible with mantle from the get go it does't mean other game that use frosbite 3 engine will automatically generate the mantle code path for the game. The developer still have to implement it. Also if i remember correctly the need for speed rival (which is based on frost bite 3 engine) developer intend to lock the frame ratres of their game at 30 fps for both console and pc. In this case the use of mantle might not be relevant to them.

 

[DjDeathCool]

Do any of you have any history with using crossfire? If so, how did that go? Was it as good as SLI?

 

[andyb11]

I have the 770 2gb. its a great card/ runs everything ultra and 30% to 60% power consumption also never goes above 60oC. The 290x is a great card but if your playing in 1080p you wont it. The 770 will last 3-4 years and cards will be cheaper then. The 290x is extremely loud and runs at 90oC, so if you want a radiator in your case and your fine with it that's ok, also the default card is extremely overclock so there's not much head room for that as well. Whilst the 770 is great for overclocking. All i'm saying is I have the 770 and its unstoppable it will last and save you money. Don't believe the AMD Fan boys getting all hyped up, they wont be when the 780ti comes out....

 

[renz496]

Do any of you have any history with using crossfire? If so, how did that go? Was it as good as SLI?

no CF experience but if you're following the recent stuff SLI still ahead in term of stability and more consistent

 

[corvetteguy1994]

Do any of you have any history with using crossfire? If so, how did that go? Was it as good as SLI?

I love it. running catalyst 13.11 with 0 issues. just steller.

 

[CoronaBuzz]

I personally run SLi 780 superclocks and this is by far NVidia's best release of cards. Ive never had one driver issue since I've owned these cards and the temps are remarkable, top card runs around 65C and the bottom card runs around 60C full load. Get em'! enuff said!

 

[iam2thecrowe]

Do any of you have any history with using crossfire? If so, how did that go? Was it as good as SLI?

crossfire is an absolute piece of crap, never again for me, worked great in one or 2 titles, the rest, crap.. would buy sli again and again, it works flawlessly. I would wait, nvidia will drop their prices to compete with the 290x and then you can just get 2 x 780's and not have to worry about crossfire problems.

 

[DjDeathCool]

Okay. So, I think I've zoned in on what I'm really going to need. I have two 19 in. monitors at 1440x900. I'm going to buy another one and hopefully be gaming at 4320x900. Now, with the price drops made official I'm looking at the 780GTX as my card as preference. However, higher VRAM is pretty much a necessity with multi-monitor setups. Do you guys think I should opt for the 4GB 770 for SLI expansion or will the 3GB 780 be good for the next several years (I hear that BF4 is already pushing that 3GB limit)