AMD mantle vs nvidia G-sync? whats the better tech

[SgtDoakes]

you guys' opinions please

 

[iam2thecrowe]

well they are two completely different things. mantle isn't new tech really, its just bringing back old proprietary crap that we spent years trying to get away from. I know g-sync is proprietary too, it would be good if it wasn't, as IMO it would be fantastic if one day the tech is used across the board, in tv's, dvd/blueray players etc, as i notice a lot of tearing on my TV, particularly with certain digital broadcasts. IMO gsync is better, it allows smoother gameplay overall, reducing the need for higher end hardware, smoothing out the problem areas (lower fps ranges), and i would certainly use it in a htpc build if you could get compatable TV's. I have even heard of possibly gsync adapters for compatible displays..
where as mantle may only give more fraps measured fps, it is not necessarily going to make gameplay smother once the frames hit the monitor, if AMD's history is anything to go by.

 

[renz496]

Hard to say. The idea behind mantle is nice but it only benefit some user with it ( not even all amd user will benefit from it). Also after thedeath of glide i don't know if developer really want to go back to the days where each gpu vendor have their own low level api. DirectX and OpenGL solve the fragmentation brought by low level api such as glide in the past and now amd want to bring back low level api stuff back in the game. Anyway it is still early to say anything so we will so how things will fold in the future. If we see more than a dozen or two games using mantle in two year then there might be future for the api.

About g-sync it is interesting for both gamer and developer. And from what i can see it also benefit people with mid range gpu since low frame rates can feel smooth. For people with muxh better gpu maybe they can hold onto their gpu much longer. Also it seems the tech alsowill work with any game on the get go basis. The only con are it is limited to nvidia user right now. But unlike mantle which tied down specifically to gcn hardware the g-sync will be able to work with other future hardware if nvidia did license the tech

 

[childofthekorn]

you guys' opinions please

As far as mantle...that has nothing to do with the way your GPU works with your monitor the way that G-Sync does unless you are interested in customizing the API for specific games, so your just looking for the new pop marketing terms the companies employ in order to choose your next setup instead of looking for legit reasons.

 

[Pete_the_Puma]

Do you like apples or oranges better?

 

[bystander]

G-sync is new tech. Mantle just gives greater access to existing tech, if a dev is willing to use it. G-sync is a game change in the way we experience FPS without needing special support. Mantle may give a few games some extra FPS.

 

[belal122]

First of all, Mantle is different from Glide in that when 3DFX released Glide, it only worked on 3DFX cards at a time when 3DFX was in competition with various other vendors. We are in 2013 now, and we have two major consoles, Xbox One and PS4, which both are GCN Based and will be able to utilize Mantle. So as game developers develop for consoles (and they will since that's where the money is), those technologies will be ported over to the PC side aswell. So effectively, the technology will be more widely used (hopefully).

Secondly, like everyone else mentioned, they are two different technologies going after two different problems. I think the market penetration of Mantle will be much more than G-Sync unless NVIDIA decides to open it up.

 

[Mousemonkey]

First of all, Mantle is different from Glide in that when 3DFX released Glide, it only worked on 3DFX cards at a time when 3DFX was in competition with various other vendors. We are in 2013 now, and we have two major consoles, Xbox One and PS4, which both are GCN Based and will be able to utilize Mantle. So as game developers develop for consoles (and they will since that's where the money is), those technologies will be ported over to the PC side aswell. So effectively, the technology will be more widely used (hopefully).

Secondly, like everyone else mentioned, they are two different technologies going after two different problems. I think the market penetration of Mantle will be much more than G-Sync unless NVIDIA decides to open it up.

Neither of the consoles will use Mantle, MS have DX and Sony are just going to do their own thing as they always do. Unless you have evidence to the contrary of course.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-mantle-api-xbox-one-directx-11.2,24691.html

 

[bystander]

First of all, Mantle is different from Glide in that when 3DFX released Glide, it only worked on 3DFX cards at a time when 3DFX was in competition with various other vendors. We are in 2013 now, and we have two major consoles, Xbox One and PS4, which both are GCN Based and will be able to utilize Mantle. So as game developers develop for consoles (and they will since that's where the money is), those technologies will be ported over to the PC side aswell. So effectively, the technology will be more widely used (hopefully).

Secondly, like everyone else mentioned, they are two different technologies going after two different problems. I think the market penetration of Mantle will be much more than G-Sync unless NVIDIA decides to open it up.

If you purchase a G-sync monitor and Nvidia GPU, it will work 100% of the time in all games, past and present and greatly improves performance by removing tearing with no downsides, like latency and stutter.

Mantle will be used in a few games to help improve performance. How much it helps is still unknown.

More people may end up using Mantle than G-sync, only because you don't have to buy anything other than an AMD GCN card, but if someone gets G-sync, they will have 100% access to it in all games.

 

[renz496]

First of all, Mantle is different from Glide in that when 3DFX released Glide, it only worked on 3DFX cards at a time when 3DFX was in competition with various other vendors. We are in 2013 now, and we have two major consoles, Xbox One and PS4, which both are GCN Based and will be able to utilize Mantle. So as game developers develop for consoles (and they will since that's where the money is), those technologies will be ported over to the PC side aswell. So effectively, the technology will be more widely used (hopefully).

Secondly, like everyone else mentioned, they are two different technologies going after two different problems. I think the market penetration of Mantle will be much more than G-Sync unless NVIDIA decides to open it up.

Neither of the consoles will use Mantle, MS have DX and Sony are just going to do their own thing as they always do. Unless you have evidence to the contrary of course.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-mantle-api-xbox-one-directx-11.2,24691.html

microsoft already made their statement that xbone will only use DX11 stuff. even AMD themselves already admit Mantle are not made to work with console. idk why people still think both Xbone and PS4 will use mantle in the future

 

[Mousemonkey]

First of all, Mantle is different from Glide in that when 3DFX released Glide, it only worked on 3DFX cards at a time when 3DFX was in competition with various other vendors. We are in 2013 now, and we have two major consoles, Xbox One and PS4, which both are GCN Based and will be able to utilize Mantle. So as game developers develop for consoles (and they will since that's where the money is), those technologies will be ported over to the PC side aswell. So effectively, the technology will be more widely used (hopefully).

Secondly, like everyone else mentioned, they are two different technologies going after two different problems. I think the market penetration of Mantle will be much more than G-Sync unless NVIDIA decides to open it up.

Neither of the consoles will use Mantle, MS have DX and Sony are just going to do their own thing as they always do. Unless you have evidence to the contrary of course.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-mantle-api-xbox-one-directx-11.2,24691.html

microsoft already made their statement that xbone will only use DX11 stuff. even AMD themselves already admit Mantle are not made to work with console. idk why people still think both Xbone and PS4 will use mantle in the future

Perhaps it's the AMD GCN thing that leads to the (wrongful) assumption? And you know what they say about assumptions don't you?

 

[hypergon]

They would be great if I could use mantle on nvidia and gsync on amd (licensing $$)

I don't really care about my fps as long as I don't lag and screen tearing is not that of my problem for my eyes D
One problem is that gsync adds 120$ to a 280$ monitor which is getting close to 1440p monitors

Anyway you can't compare a API and some sort of controller module

 

[viktor001]

First of all, Mantle is different from Glide in that when 3DFX released Glide, it only worked on 3DFX cards at a time when 3DFX was in competition with various other vendors. We are in 2013 now, and we have two major consoles, Xbox One and PS4, which both are GCN Based and will be able to utilize Mantle. So as game developers develop for consoles (and they will since that's where the money is), those technologies will be ported over to the PC side aswell. So effectively, the technology will be more widely used (hopefully).

Secondly, like everyone else mentioned, they are two different technologies going after two different problems. I think the market penetration of Mantle will be much more than G-Sync unless NVIDIA decides to open it up.

Neither of the consoles will use Mantle, MS have DX and Sony are just going to do their own thing as they always do. Unless you have evidence to the contrary of course.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-mantle-api-xbox-one-directx-11.2,24691.html

microsoft already made their statement that xbone will only use DX11 stuff. even AMD themselves already admit Mantle are not made to work with console. idk why people still think both Xbone and PS4 will use mantle in the future

Perhaps it's the AMD GCN thing that leads to the (wrongful) assumption? And you know what they say about assumptions don't you?

OK i will try and add some light. Mantle is a low level API. Everybody knows that. What they don't know is every thing else. An api is the language the software uses to talk to the graphics card and cpu. ANY piece of silicon can use mantle theoretically... Can X-box and PS4 use mantle? Yes mantle can work 100% with ANY hardware. Now mantle would have to be slightly modified to work on keplar and other different architectures. But because xbox and ps4 are amd apu and gcn there is no problem porting mantle to console. Even wii u could work but the cpu is custom so a little more modding would be required. So why don't Sony and Microsoft use mantle.... It all comes down to MONEY. Microsoft won't give up direct x and Sony hasn't officially said it won't support mantle. They've just said they won't support it in the near future. But i think that will definitely change. It is amd's vision, of course , to see mantle on every hardware. This is also Dice's vision. (battlefeild 4) According to the chief frostbite arch. Dice is continually pushing for more platforms and hardware to support mantle. Also amd and dice have stated that mantle is NOT tied to amd. (GCN) Sorry one more thing. Mantle will not only provide more fps but BETTER GRAPHICS. Does anybody know what a draw call is?????? Please read my explanation of this. I think it's on a thead called "Calling all Tech Experts! BF4 Mantle Performance"

hope this helps.

 

[renz496]

Yes mantle can work 100% with ANY hardware.

Even wii u could work but the cpu is custom so a little more modding would be required.

before talking Mantle working on other hardware then why AMD said mantle tied specifically to GCN only? (there were tweet confirming this). from tom's hardware interview with Dice's Johan Andersson:

Johan: Mantle requires a certain set of key functionality of the GPU, so it can’t be supported on older architectures before AMD’s GCN architecture.

so no. Mantle won't work on Wii U.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/johan-andersson-battlefield-4-interview,3688-8.html

It is amd's vision, of course , to see mantle on every hardware. This is also Dice's vision.

to Dice? definitely yes. but to AMD? i don't know. when they first disclose Mantle back in Hawaii they mention Mantle as an advantage to AMD GPU that is does not exist in competitor gpu. clearly they want to make Mantle as a selling point why you want AMD gpu in your PC. if they really eager to share mantle with everyone they will not hesitate to send the API to Khronos group.

During his keynote, Andersson expressed a strong desire to see Mantle support expanded beyond Windows and AMD GPUs. In a roundtable talk later that day, he added that Mantle support coming to third-party GPUs would be "really important for [DICE] in the future," and the studio would like to use the API "everywhere and on everything." However, he admitted that it would be "very difficult to get there"—not for technical reasons, but for political ones.

http://techreport.com/review/25683/delving-deeper-into-amd-mantle-api/4

 

[Aslaf]

let me compare these

So on the nvidia side:

You have a very expensive (279,99) TN panel, that you MUST buy to enjoy gsync. But you also need DIY card, that costs 100$ according to toms. so that gives you 380$. But you also need gtx card, lets say gtx 770 (339,99 USD ). that gives you 719$


AMD side. You can buy r9 290 399,99 USD, wait for mantle that will give you boost in performance and play stable 60 FPS in all games, without tearing, coz you can turn on vsync, and extra performance allow you to do that.

amd bang for the buck, win hands down. tada!

 

[renz496]

So on the nvidia side:

You have a very expensive (279,99) TN panel, that you MUST buy to enjoy gsync. But you also need DIY card, that costs 100$ according to toms. so that gives you 380$. But you also need gtx card, lets say gtx 770 (339,99 USD ). that gives you 719$

wow you work hard to make it more expensive

AMD side. You can buy r9 290 399,99 USD, wait for mantle that will give you boost in performance and play stable 60 FPS in all games, without tearing, coz you can turn on vsync, and extra performance allow you to do that.

any GCN based gpu should be able to run mantle but it doesn't mean all games will be able to use mantle because of that. the game need to be patch (like what Dice intend to do with BF4) or the engine must have built in support for mantle to use the tech. as for G-Sync it will work on any games without the need to modify the game engine or adding patch to existing games.

 

[Aslaf]

So on the nvidia side:

You have a very expensive (279,99) TN panel, that you MUST buy to enjoy gsync. But you also need DIY card, that costs 100$ according to toms. so that gives you 380$. But you also need gtx card, lets say gtx 770 (339,99 USD ). that gives you 719$

wow you work hard to make it more expensive

AMD side. You can buy r9 290 399,99 USD, wait for mantle that will give you boost in performance and play stable 60 FPS in all games, without tearing, coz you can turn on vsync, and extra performance allow you to do that.

any GCN based gpu should be able to run mantle but it doesn't mean all games will be able to use mantle because of that. the game need to be patch (like what Dice intend to do with BF4) or the engine must have built in support for fmantle to use the tech. as for G-Sync it will work on any games without the need to modify the game engine or adding patch to existing games.

ok, so you can also buy gtx 650ti for 149,99 USD. It will cost you 530... Still more expensive than r9 290, and you can't tell its better investment than AMD option, aren't you?

Why i wrote all games? Because there is no game except crysis 3 and newest metro, that can't be played above 60 fps on r9 290. And also all biggest engines (including cy engine 3 in star citizen) will support mantle. Gsync is profitable only, if you already have this monitor and gtx card.

Gsync is awesome, but way more to expensive. It's worse than mantle, that can do the same much cheaper. If you have a fast enough card, vsync is not a problem and r9 290/x are this kind of card. Its worth to mention a mining boom, radeons will be cheaper by the time, when aftermarket solutions hit the market.

One more thing. There are many people who just bought 1440p monitors. Srsly, who is going to replace it with TN panel? Gsync= technology for professional gamers that earn money playing cs/whatever. For normal users it' s worthless.

 

[hypergon]

Locking the frames to 59fps on 60hz will do the same, all you need is enough power to get 59 all the time

 

[renz496]

ok, so you can also buy gtx 650ti for 149,99 USD. It will cost you 530... Still more expensive than r9 290, and you can't tell its better investment than AMD option, aren't you?

you forgot that they are many user may already met the requirement on the gpu front. for those people they just need to get the monitor. so stop making like new gpu is a must when people want to get g-sync monitor. if you want g-sync you go nvidia. if you want manlte you go amd. as easy as that.

Gsync is awesome, but way more to expensive. It's worse than mantle, that can do the same much cheaper. If you have a fast enough card, vsync is not a problem and r9 290/x are this kind of card. Its worth to mention a mining boom, radeons will be cheaper by the time, when aftermarket solutions hit the market.

Mantle and G-Sync are solving two different things. but i see you don't understand what G-Sync is all about when you mention : If you have a fast enough card, vsync is not a problem

 

[Aslaf]

ok, so you can also buy gtx 650ti for 149,99 USD. It will cost you 530... Still more expensive than r9 290, and you can't tell its better investment than AMD option, aren't you?

you forgot that they are many user may already met the requirement on the gpu front. for those people they just need to get the monitor. so stop making like new gpu is a must when people want to get g-sync monitor. if you want g-sync you go nvidia. if you want manlte you go amd. as easy as that.

Gsync is awesome, but way more to expensive. It's worse than mantle, that can do the same much cheaper. If you have a fast enough card, vsync is not a problem and r9 290/x are this kind of card. Its worth to mention a mining boom, radeons will be cheaper by the time, when aftermarket solutions hit the market.

Mantle and G-Sync are solving two different things. but i see you don't understand what G-Sync is all about when you mention : If you have a fast enough card, vsync is not a problem

I know it also reduces input lag but come on, as i said before, only hardcore turnament gamers will ntice it. That's why people are still playing on consoles, despite input lag on TV's people still enjoy it. I don't think that normal person will see a real difference between vsync'ed game capped at 60fps and gsync 60<fps.

you forgot that they are many user may already met the requirement on the gpu front. for those people they just need to get the monitor. so stop making like new gpu is a must when people want to get g-sync monitor. if you want g-sync you go nvidia. if you want manlte you go amd. as easy as that.

So they must have atleast gtx 770, because if you have free 380 $ and worse card (760, 660 ti etc etc) its more profitable to just buy a better card. That means, Gsync is enthusiast upgrade adressed to... enthusiasts . See my point? It IS overpriced and only profitable IF you have gtx and this monitor already (one of the most expensives TN) Otherwise its better to replace your card and go with AMD. Because of Mantle.

 

[renz496]

So they must have atleast gtx 770, because if you have free 380 $ and worse card (760, 660 ti etc etc) its more profitable to just buy a better card. That means, Gsync is enthusiast upgrade adressed to... enthusiasts . See my point? It IS overpriced and only profitable IF you have gtx and this monitor already (one of the most expensives TN) Otherwise its better to replace your card and go with AMD. Because of Mantle.

it depends on how you want to spend your investment. yes the Asus VG248QE is quite expensive but you have to remember that monitor is one of the pc component that will not get upgraded as often as other component. personally i have use three different gpu with my current monitor. so it is a matter of choice. if they want g-sync they will have to spend a bit more on monitor. as a side benefit they might be able to keep their mid range gpu longer since as long as your FPS is above 30 you will get smooth gameplay over normal monitor. also there are possibilities of much cheaper G-Sync monitor when they move G-Sync module from FPGA to ASIC.

to be honest i'm not saying G-Sync is better than Mantle or vise versa as the two fundamentally are doing two different things. but Nvidia already show what G-Sync is and if you don't mind the premium you can get the modded VG248QE right now. so if you don't like it just ignore it. but on the mantle side we haven't seen anything yet. they only talk about the benefit of mantle but amd needs to show real demonstration in no bar holds manner and explain why develop games with mantle is better even if developer have to spend more resource on it

 

[bystander]

I will say it. As of now, and probably for at least a year or more, G-sync is better. There is nothing for Mantle now, and it will be used very little for quite some time once it does start to show. If you get G-sync, it works as of today, and works on everything. It makes things smoother with your existing GPU.

Cost is the only issue, but if you were going to buy a monitor anyways, then it is no big deal, and as renz496 said, we hold onto monitors a lot longer than GPU's. I've gone though 3 with my monitor.

And this VG248QE is only the first monitor, the prototype, but there will be many other versions. The ones with it built in from the start will only cost an addition $100.

 

[Aslaf]

So they must have atleast gtx 770, because if you have free 380 $ and worse card (760, 660 ti etc etc) its more profitable to just buy a better card. That means, Gsync is enthusiast upgrade adressed to... enthusiasts . See my point? It IS overpriced and only profitable IF you have gtx and this monitor already (one of the most expensives TN) Otherwise its better to replace your card and go with AMD. Because of Mantle.

it depends on how you want to spend your investment. yes the Asus VG248QE is quite expensive but you have to remember that monitor is one of the pc component that will not get upgraded as often as other component. personally i have use three different gpu with my current monitor. so it is a matter of choice. if they want g-sync they will have to spend a bit more on monitor. as a side benefit they might be able to keep their mid range gpu longer since as long as your FPS is above 30 you will get smooth gameplay over normal monitor. also there are possibilities of much cheaper G-Sync monitor when they move G-Sync module from FPGA to ASIC.

to be honest i'm not saying G-Sync is better than Mantle or vise versa as the two fundamentally are doing two different things. but Nvidia already show what G-Sync is and if you don't mind the premium you can get the modded VG248QE right now. so if you don't like it just ignore it. but on the mantle side we haven't seen anything yet. they only talk about the benefit of mantle but amd needs to show real demonstration in no bar holds manner and explain why develop games with mantle is better even if developer have to spend more resource on it

I respect your point of view. But for example in my situation (I actually have a 75hz monitor connected to ps3 and I am looking for a nice gaming pc for 1200-1300$) I don't want to buy a worse performing RIG just for Gsync. It's just not worth it IMO, especially when we are entering new generation of games. Requirements will grow up, and IMO better performance will be more important. 40 fps and possible tearing or 20 without it? For me, first option.

 

[hypergon]

If you have a fast enough card, vsync is not a problem

IMO gsync only makes sense if you already have both GPU and compatible monitor.

If you plan on buying new gpu+monitor with gsync, going with amd would save you ~120$ you could spend on a moar powerful card. And with mantle compatible games you would get even moar performance (many upgrade their GPU for BF4)
Spending 400$ on a 1080p 144hz monitor is expensive and not worth it...

My thoughts on a price model when buying a new set of GPU/monitor:
Eg. Budget of 600$ with Gsync and ASUS VG248QE

NVidia: 400$ (monitor+gsync)+200$ (GPU)
AMD: 280$ (monitor)+320$ (GPU) [and your not even bound to that monitor, you can get cheaper monitors too ]
Actually I thought gsync should help lower end machines with vsync, but its not worth it at this pricepoint IMHO
I know my model has lots of weaknesses (you dont have to buy gsync...), but I think it shows that if you're on a budget, going with nvidia for gsync only is not efficient and playing with a 200$ card on a 400$ 1080p TN monitor sounds wrong...

I'm not trying to bash gsync, but I don't see a real point buying it or going nvidia for it. As said enthusiasts may be the people buying this, but probably only because it reduces the input lag by some ms, not due to its vsync features ('enthusiast' should play with multiple kiloframes/s lol vsync should be no problem)

 

[renz496]

^ for now it is expensive but there could be much cheaper option in the future. remember VG248QE will be not the only monitor will get G-Sync treatment. also one of the real point of g-sync is to have smoother gameplay even if your FPS doesn't hit 60 FPS