Is News & Leisure the new tamed Other Section?

[4Ryan6]

It kinda seems like it is, kinda like soft porn, maybe!

A far cry from what we all loved about the old Other Section, even though the Old Mam/Women's Club is still there, just mouse over Forum at the top header, like Ragu, "It's in there"!

For some of us it was an escape from the endless questions above of those too lazy to research their own answers, and just cannot understand how to use Google.

Now we have a multitude of instant experts advising the mass of forum users upstairs, which I find comical, as some of the advisors a few days earlier were worse off than those they're advising! :lol:

What a joke and long term travesty to Toms Hardware!

How does instant experts compare to popping popcorn, News at 11!

The thing about a long term travesty is you don't realize the damage to website credibility until it's too late, and the damage is done!

Then all the flag waving promoters of the idea come to the same conclusion as Obama Care, it don't work! :lol:

Another Other Section draw was the ability to express just what you thought about someone without getting banned from the website, unless of course you directly offended the moderators who were keeping the Other Section boat afloat.

Heaven forbid if you did that, but you could fight amongst yourselves with the gloves off and go toe to toe, (You know moderating without moderating, the good ole boy approach, are you a member of the club or not, here goes another confrontation, pop the popcorn and take a seat!), some of you won't have a clue as to what I'm even talking about, you would have to of been a part of it and come through it all.

It was an historical part of Toms Hardware, and obviously a part some higher ups cannot sentimentally part with, since it is still directly accessible today!

So news and leisure is a soft porn Other Section!

Can we change the name? :lol:

For the record, I love Toms Hardware, I just don't love the way the website seems to be headed, it used to be a source for accurate information highly respected by the outside users and constantly recommended to others for help.

That reputation was built on Toms Hardware members that knew what they were doing and shared from their vast knowledge base.

Instant experts have no foundation, they're bubbling over to share the little they have learned, but hit a wall of end of knowledge, when all they've learned is exhausted.

Other websites like AnandTech are passing Toms Hardware today in respectability, which were in our dust clouds in earlier days, and that is something to get concerned about people, if Toms Hardware means anything to you at all!

We've lost a lot of knowledgeable members at Toms Hardware that have made their website homes elsewhere, for various reasons, the worst being mismanaging of authority that added a massive amount of our members to other websites, for example Xtreme CPU xcpus.com, not the best time in THF past history, but past history just the same.

This is the place we can talk about these things right?

If you've been a member of Toms Hardware Forum long enough, you've seen these things happen yourself, are you concerned or not?

Any suggestions for improvement?

Or is it too late?

This new software change has been, and still, is a debacle, it may work today or it may not, and all we get is excuses well worded like politicians, because they don't know why these things are happening and are giving out the same general lame excuse!

When moderators themselves can suddenly not do their jobs because the software won't allow it, it's Apollo 11 time, "Houston, We have a problem!"

Some have left because of the software issues!

Sometimes Toms runs like molasses in winter, sometimes it don't run at all and you're better off to just leave and come back later, well how many times is your tolerance meter going to put up with, leave and come back later, so some just tire of it and find another home!

Excuses without resolution, is non dependability, occasionally is tolerable, regularly is not!

I have given years of my time to make this place better, without making a penny in the process, do those upstairs being paid by Toms Hardware somehow loose their perspective because money is involved, and making that paycheck become more important than making Toms a better place? Possibly? IDK

There's a reason truckers do not put recapped tires on the front of their trucks!

 

[riser]

The major benefit here over the Other is that you can actually have a debate or conservation because someone introduces llamas or wingbats.

 

[amdfangirl]

I was always under the impression that a community is defined by shared values, beliefs, ideas and information.

Simply put, if you have higher technical quality journalism, you'll have higher technical quality members.

If you have articles that push the boundaries of tech journalism, rather than remaining safely in them you'll get more revolutionaries.

If your articles are on the very basics of computing, you'll attract newbies. Simple really.

It's not to say that's a bad thing. Tom's Hardware is now considered a great place to get started learning about tech. It's a much more inviting and friendly place than what it once was.

You need industry breaking articles like Tech Report's microstutter. After all anyone can do a CPU/SoC review to an acceptable level, but not everyone can explain the intricacies of software design, camera optics, benchmark cheating, frame rate pacing, colour accuracy, uarch design etc.

These days Tom's follows a monthly pattern of good rig builds and best value x per price range. Whilst that isn't a bad thing, it doesn't really push the envelope. The regurgitation of news doesn't break any barrier either -> considering most of the really dedicated read it a day or two ago on their RSS feeds. Consequently you attract people who find this stuff bleeding edge and challenging their knowledge.

Certainly I don't think it would even make sense for Tom's Hardware to go overboard with technical stuff. Ry, you'd love the lectures I hear every month at my Linux user group. New software hacks/flaws, new GCC compile options, custom I2C sensors attached to raspberry pis, servers of every kind, DIY 3d printers and their configuration. We have discussions on leap-seconds, the intricacies of SoC design and stuff like that. There I'm the silly one. You'd think something so awesome would be booked full of people. It's not.

There are maybe 30-45 people who go each month in the whole of Sydney (that's out of more than 4.6 million people). That's an abysmal attendance rate. Although the tech conversations are beyond comparison, that's a tiny market. Tom's has to make money -> it's a business, it can't to appeal to a group of hackers/system admins/rocket scientists (yes literally we have a rocket scientist) and hope that the articles will be widely read. Unfortunately the more technical the article is, the harder it is to write. The harder it is to write the more time, expense and technical knowledge is needed to complete it. Conversely as you increase the technical quality, you also diminish the readership. Readership = more ad revenue = more profit.

It makes sense. Tom's appeals to it's new culture. I won't argue about the software bugs. That's unforgivable .

Ry, this is not the forum you and I remember. It changed and it continues to change. Everything does.

 

[Saga Lout]

I haven't been in Tom's long enough to comment on past glories lost but I could generalise and point out that the virtual world has moved on from the philanthropic values of those days to the profit motive of today. Even Dr. Pabst couldn't have foreseen Twitter and Facebook getting started let alone being quoted on the world stock markets at stupid amounts of money.

Tom's is now owned by a company which has to pay its way but it has an editorial team of good writers and it's still populated with a mix of folks with something to offer and others who seek that information. Does it have to be more complicated than that?

The software issues aren't new either - anyone remember AOL ten years ago?

 

[4Ryan6]

The major benefit here over the Other is that you can actually have a debate or conservation because someone introduces llamas or wingbats.

That's true!

 

[4Ryan6]

I was always under the impression that a community is defined by shared values, beliefs, ideas and information.

Simply put, if you have higher technical quality journalism, you'll have higher technical quality members.

If you have articles that push the boundaries of tech journalism, rather than remaining safely in them you'll get more revolutionaries.

If your articles are on the very basics of computing, you'll attract newbies. Simple really.

It's not to say that's a bad thing. Tom's Hardware is now considered a great place to get started learning about tech. It's a much more inviting and friendly place than what it once was.

You need industry breaking articles like Tech Report's microstutter. After all anyone can do a CPU/SoC review to an acceptable level, but not everyone can explain the intricacies of software design, camera optics, benchmark cheating, frame rate pacing, colour accuracy, uarch design etc.

These days Tom's follows a monthly pattern of good rig builds and best value x per price range. Whilst that isn't a bad thing, it doesn't really push the envelope. The regurgitation of news doesn't break any barrier either -> considering most of the really dedicated read it a day or two ago on their RSS feeds. Consequently you attract people who find this stuff bleeding edge and challenging their knowledge.

Certainly I don't think it would even make sense for Tom's Hardware to go overboard with technical stuff. Ry, you'd love the lectures I hear every month at my Linux user group. New software hacks/flaws, new GCC compile options, custom I2C sensors attached to raspberry pis, servers of every kind, DIY 3d printers and their configuration. We have discussions on leap-seconds, the intricacies of SoC design and stuff like that. There I'm the silly one. You'd think something so awesome would be booked full of people. It's not.

There are maybe 30-45 people who go each month in the whole of Sydney (that's out of more than 4.6 million people). That's an abysmal attendance rate. Although the tech conversations are beyond comparison, that's a tiny market. Tom's has to make money -> it's a business, it can't to appeal to a group of hackers/system admins/rocket scientists (yes literally we have a rocket scientist) and hope that the articles will be widely read. Unfortunately the more technical the article is, the harder it is to write. The harder it is to write the more time, expense and technical knowledge is needed to complete it. Conversely as you increase the technical quality, you also diminish the readership. Readership = more ad revenue = more profit.

It makes sense. Tom's appeals to it's new culture. I won't argue about the software bugs. That's unforgivable .

Ry, this is not the forum you and I remember. It changed and it continues to change. Everything does.

That's a refreshing perspective Echo!

Thank You!

 

[Reynod]

I was a strong advocate of "The Other" and fought for it to be kept open.

I recall 4ryan6 and riser you were both were the strongest advocates of closing it.

We found an alterate home courtesy of Charlie D ... and some of the guys went there ... but it kinda died.

Despite this, the end result is that "Yes" News and Leisure" has become the defacto "G Rated" version ... I drove that as such, and I recognise that we still need a place for discussion.

However, the Community Manager has made it very clear that toms is a "Family Friendly" place and so the language must be toned down to suit, and forum stalwarts are not to mug or scalp n00bs who wander down here.

Fecal fingering is obviously out.

We have relaxed the cursewords a bit and even put couches in the corners ... but smoking is banned.

You may even suck back some Tea Party Koolaide if you wish ...

Sadly ...

 

[4Ryan6]

I haven't been in Tom's long enough to comment on past glories lost but I could generalise and point out that the virtual world has moved on from the philanthropic values of those days to the profit motive of today. Even Dr. Pabst couldn't have foreseen Twitter and Facebook getting started let alone being quoted on the world stock markets at stupid amounts of money.

Tom's is now owned by a company which has to pay its way but it has an editorial team of good writers and it's still populated with a mix of folks with something to offer and others who seek that information. Does it have to be more complicated than that?

The software issues aren't new either - anyone remember AOL ten years ago?

Yeah, we've had software issues every time it was changed since I first became a member here, these just seem to be lingering longer, but hopefully soon it will be resolved.

By the way congratulations on your becoming a moderator Saga Lout!

 

[4Ryan6]

I was a strong advocate of "The Other" and fought for it to be kept open.

I recall 4ryan6 and riser you were both were the strongest advocates of closing it.

We found an alterate home courtesy of Charlie D ... and some of the guys went there ... but it kinda died.

Despite this, the end result is that "Yes" News and Leisure" has become the defacto "G Rated" version ... I drove that as such, and I recognise that we still need a place for discussion.

However, the Community Manager has made it very clear that toms is a "Family Friendly" place and so the language must be toned down to suit, and forum stalwarts are not to mug or scalp n00bs who wander down here.

Fecal fingering is obviously out.

We have relaxed the cursewords a bit and even put couches in the corners ... but smoking is banned.

You may even suck back some Tea Party Koolaide if you wish ...

Sadly ...

Lets clear the air once and for all, Yes, I was a major part of getting the Other Section closed, but not because I did not like the people in there, because of the new THGF members that were literally slaughtered by the reception they got when they accidentally wandered in there.

The Other Section cost THGF many new and possibly good members by those attacks that were funny to the good ole boys, but devastating to innocent new members, and those attacks were reported to administration, eventually forcing Justinblue to post a warning sticky, in an attempt not to loose any more new members.

That warning wasn't a joke to the good ole boys, it was also meant for them to attempt to control what they were doing, but they took it as a joke and continued, and even got worse with their attacks, taking the warning as acceptance by the new administration, but it was not.

Literally the Other Section was responsible for it's own demise, if it had come under alignment of it's own accord, there would have been no reason to close it.

If the moderators in charge had done their jobs instead of looking the other way it would not have been closed, you can believe what ever you want, but I was deep into the Other Section long before you even arrived.

I tried numerous times to protect the newbies that stumbled in there and was basically labeled an Other Section outcast, which I proudly stuck in their face at every opportunity I got.

So Yes, I was partially responsible for it's direct closing and proud of it, and only wish I could have been fully responsible for it's closing, because it would have been closed long before it was!

Bottom line it was actually closed by administration the final nail in the coffin, and Kudos to them for doing it!

My bringing up of the Other Section was not out of some mistaken remorse, it was because it is still accessible today as I plainly said in my opening post.

 

[Reynod]

I don't want it reopened (but you have reposted there since asking for it to be opened) hence why I keep closing threads there ... when the devs get around to closing it they shall.

You can only go there if you know what your looking for ... most don't give a rats.

 

[Reynod]

I closed all of the open posts over there ... best I could do.

 

[4Ryan6]

I don't want it reopened (but you have reposted there since asking for it to be opened) hence why I keep closing threads there ... when the devs get around to closing it they shall.

I'm glad you don't want it reopened, but you still wallow in remorse over it's closing, that's extremely evident!

You've come on like you're attempting to expose some hidden secret, but I am proud of being part of it's closing and have zero remorse.

I was a strong advocate of "The Other" and fought for it to be kept open.

I recall 4ryan6 and riser you were both were the strongest advocates of closing it.

The point is, It's still there!

It should have never been imported from the old software in the first place, thus the reason I put posts in there.

That by the way, do not violate forum rules!

One of them specifically trying to bring attention to the fact, it is still accessible, which I posted over 4 months ago by the way.

It's been accessible since the forum software change, so the devs, must be on a loooooooooong vacation, I wish I had that kind of time to solve my problems, but I don't.

Maybe it still being there is causing some of the devs problems, there's a thought!

You can only go there if you know what your looking for

What?

It's in the site directory, how can you say that?

One mouse click and you're there?

Mouse over Forum at the top header and click, "Old Man/Women's Club", from the drop down display and you're there!

Since you don't want it reopened be an advocate to get rid of it once and for all.

 

[amdfangirl]

I'm sure you could threaten THG with a lawsuit.

That would probably get things done faster. :3

 

[4Ryan6]

I closed all of the open posts over there ... best I could do.

Closing threads do not make them unreadable!

It makes them unpostable!

The filth, crap, and crud is still there!

 

[4Ryan6]

I'm sure you could threaten THG with a lawsuit.

That would probably get things done faster. :3

I really did not consider going that far, but thank you for the suggestion, Echo, that may very well be the solution, I'll begin investigating some of the child protection angles.

I know there's violations in there!

Thank You! Ry

 

[4Ryan6]

@ amdfangirl

Echo, You are a genius!

I don't have to sue them, just turn them over to the right organization, since the Old Man/Women's Club is readable and accessible through Google, that means it is viewable to children under the age of 13.

Google Search;

https://www.google.com/search?q=Old...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Toms Hardware link on the search page;

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/33195-12-woman-club-section-dead

And you do not have to be signed into Toms to access it.

 

[riser]

The Other went from having dozens of active people down to having a handful of people dominating the entire area, to the point that nothing new could be introduced, either people or topics. Such is that people become so used to a thing that they fear change.

I was more for refining how it operated and taming a few people in their stupid games. Eventually though I realized it would have to become an all or nothing approach. Those regulars thought Tom's would go under without their stupid support, discussion of llamas, wingdings, et all. Everyone and everything is replaceable.

It became to the point where PMs were flying around, or IMs going on, to conspire against individuals to taunt them. It simply went too far and it did eat some people up inside. I know when people started PM'ing me, then emailing and IM'ing me to do things at certain times, I knew it was done. And here we are today, the people who wanted to stay are here, the people who had there panties in bunch are gone and probably dreaming of days long past, living their glory years on a computer, in a subsection of a subsection of something stupid.

 

[jpishgar]

The proto-nostalgic feedback loop is serving none here, but I will say that despite the poor tactic employed, a valid point was raised. I've forwarded a request for the complete removal of the Old Man's Club and associated threads.

As an aside, please refrain from using any personally identifying information (first names, etc) about other users without express permission.

Also note, I am your first and final point of contact with items regarding forum or site feedback, moderation, community policies and infrastructure. Going to other folks within the Tom's hierarchy for assistance will perpetually yield a referral to me. Attempting to go around me, or go above my head, will only yield a crankier version of me.