4930k [LGA2011] or 4770k [LGA1150] for 3-way-sli [3x 780 ti for 4k gaming]?

[mechan]

Dear TH community,

I am planning to build an nvidia 780 ti 3-way-sli system for 4k gaming on an Asus PN-K321 display (which I own already). Choice is between LGA2011 and LGA1150, and for the latter, on which board.

Design constrains:
- 3x Nvidia 780 ti 3-way-sli
- 4x 8GB of 2133 Mhz CAS 9 RAM
- Corsair H100i CPU cooler
- CaseLabs Merlin ST10 Case
- SeaSonic X Series 1250W PS
- Noctua NT-H1 3.5g Thermal Paste
- Assorted NF-P12 PWM (radiator), NF-S12A (case), Noctua NF-A14 PWM (case-rear) fans
- No need for on-board audio, using a separate Xonar STX card
- No need for integrated video of course
- Planning to start on closed-loop WC for CPU, air on video cards and chipset, and consider a custom loop later on only if acoustics/heat prove an issue
- Plan moderate (not extreme) overclocks, keeping acoustics in mind (i.e. stock fan profiles on the 780 ti)
- Appreciate on-board 802.11ac WiFi, as it saves me a PCIe slot
- I do no plan nor intend to delid a CPU
- Money not an issue, but no desire to overspend for no performance gain

Given the above, I am torn between three choices:

■ Core i7 4930k on an Asus Rampage IV Black Edition: $1,050
■ Core i7 4770k on an Asus Maximus VI Extreme: $720
■ Core i7 4770k on an Asus Maximus VI Formula: $640

My reasoning so far:
A) The extra 2 cores, and quad-channel (vs dual-channel) memory on the LGA2011 vs LGA1150 provide no measurable benefit whatsoever in gaming
B) The richer feature set of the Z87 (LGA1150) is useless to me vs the feature set of X79 (LGA2011); I am fine with 2x Sata 6G and few USB 3.0 ports
C) Haswell's IPC performance is advantaged vs IVB-E's IPC peformance ...
D) ... although Haswell's lack of solder between chip and IHS limits overclock headroom on that chip
E) Haswell's lower TDP (84W vs 130W) is a good thing in a very warm case to begin with
F) The 40 PCIe 3.0 lanes on the 2011 is a big advantage for tri-SLI ...
G) ... but it is made for with the PLX chip on the more expensive 1150 boards (e.g. Asus MVIE)

Thus I can't really make my mind up. Thoughts?

Best regards,

Mechan

 

[ImperialistMillitant]

Running 3 GPU's off a normal 1150 chipset will cause one card to run at 8x lanes and the other 2 to run at 4x lanes. This will have an impact on performance. You need at least 8x on all GPU's so the 2011 is what I suggest, due to the extra PCI lanes.

I would get an i7 4820k (2011), I think this will work out cheaper than buying a 1150 motherboard with a PLX chip.

 

[mechan]

Running 3 GPU's off a normal 1150 chipset will cause one card to run at 8x lanes and the other 2 to run at 4x lanes. This will have an impact on performance. You need at least 8x on all GPU's so the 2011 is what I suggest, due to the extra PCI lanes.

I would get an i7 4820k (2011), I think this will work out cheaper than buying a 1150 motherboard with a PLX chip.

I have seen highly conflicting observations re: bandwidth required. While I see 4x at PCIe 2.0 being a bottleneck, 4x at PCIe 3.0 is pretty much equivalent to 8x at PCIe 2.0 ... and that I've never seen being an issue. Can you point to benchmarks or data which support your point?

 

[CTurbo]

The LGA2011 is the easy choice for you if you want 3 780tis. I also agree with getting the 4820k as stated above if you want to keep price down. This is the RARE occasion when the 4820k would be recommended over the 4770k. You pretty much stated everything in your own original post.

 

[mechan]

The LGA2011 is the easy choice for you if you want 3 780tis. I also agree with getting the 4820k as stated above if you want to keep price down. This is the RARE occasion when the 4820k would be recommended over the 4770k. You pretty much stated everything in your own original post.

Appreciate the input. In my original post I state both pros and cons... why is it an easy choice? Doesn't a MB with a PLEX chip perform equally, and Haswell perform better through better IPC performance? Or does higher memory bandwidth prevail?

Can you point to data/benchmarks which support the "easy choice" argument?

 

[CTurbo]

Haswell's IPC is 5-10% better, but Ivy Bride has a superior overclocking potential.

The 40 PCIe 3.0 lanes on the 2011 is a big advantage for LGA2011... especially for your needs. I will try to find benchmarks when I have more time.

Honestly, what makes you think that a 4770k + two 780tis in SLI wouldn't handle 4k?

 

[mechan]

Haswell's IPC is 5-10% better, but Ivy Bride has a superior overclocking potential.

The 40 PCIe 3.0 lanes on the 2011 is a big advantage for LGA2011... especially for your needs. I will try to find benchmarks when I have more time.

Honestly, what makes you think that a 4770k + two 780tis in SLI wouldn't handle 4k?

This:
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/gtx_780_ti_sli_geforce_review,23.html

 

[CTurbo]

Oh ok. I have not seen very many benchmarks on the 780ti yet. I obviously assumed wrong.

 

[ImperialistMillitant]

Running 3 GPU's off a normal 1150 chipset will cause one card to run at 8x lanes and the other 2 to run at 4x lanes. This will have an impact on performance. You need at least 8x on all GPU's so the 2011 is what I suggest, due to the extra PCI lanes.

I would get an i7 4820k (2011), I think this will work out cheaper than buying a 1150 motherboard with a PLX chip.

I have seen highly conflicting observations re: bandwidth required. While I see 4x at PCIe 2.0 being a bottleneck, 4x at PCIe 3.0 is pretty much equivalent to 8x at PCIe 2.0 ... and that I've never seen being an issue. Can you point to benchmarks or data which support your point?

I didnt know PCI 3.0 made that much of a difference. Also if you was to go with 1150 socket please tell me what motherboard you got as Im in the process of looking to power 2 R9 290s especially how crossfire is run over the PCI bus.

 

[mechan]

Running 3 GPU's off a normal 1150 chipset will cause one card to run at 8x lanes and the other 2 to run at 4x lanes. This will have an impact on performance. You need at least 8x on all GPU's so the 2011 is what I suggest, due to the extra PCI lanes.

I would get an i7 4820k (2011), I think this will work out cheaper than buying a 1150 motherboard with a PLX chip.

I have seen highly conflicting observations re: bandwidth required. While I see 4x at PCIe 2.0 being a bottleneck, 4x at PCIe 3.0 is pretty much equivalent to 8x at PCIe 2.0 ... and that I've never seen being an issue. Can you point to benchmarks or data which support your point?

I didnt know PCI 3.0 made that much of a difference. Also if you was to go with 1150 socket please tell me what motherboard you got as Im in the process of looking to power 2 R9 290s especially how crossfire is run over the PCI bus.

It does. Check it out for yourself (long version):
http://komposter.com.ua/documents/PCI_Express_Base_Specification_Revision_3.0.pdf

Or short version:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express#PCI_Express_3.0

Or even shorter version (quoting):
"PCIe 3.0's 8 GT/s bit rate effectively delivers 985 MB/s per lane, double PCIe 2.0 bandwidth"

So 4x PCIe 3.0 = 8x PCIe 2.0, and the difference betweeb 16x PCIe 2.0 and 8x PCIe 2.0 are ~2% in the real world, see e.g.:
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/296170-33-pcie

If I were to go 1150, I would go with the Asus Maximus VI - Either the formula or the extreme. For 2x crossfire the formula is fine but for 3x the extreme has benefits from the PLX chip.

 

[mechan]

No data on this?

 

[Joniostis]

Haswell's IPC is 5-10% better, but Ivy Bride has a superior overclocking potential.

The 40 PCIe 3.0 lanes on the 2011 is a big advantage for LGA2011... especially for your needs. I will try to find benchmarks when I have more time.

Honestly, what makes you think that a 4770k + two 780tis in SLI wouldn't handle 4k? i mean, look at bf4, 16FPS more is HUGE!!!! i really think amd did it with the 290x, it's a beastly card for a really really good price.

This:
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/gtx_780_ti_sli_geforce_review,23.html

What stops you from getting the 290x cf, they are way cheaper, support mantle, and jump over the 780ti sli in every way?

 

[mechan]

Haswell's IPC is 5-10% better, but Ivy Bride has a superior overclocking potential.

The 40 PCIe 3.0 lanes on the 2011 is a big advantage for LGA2011... especially for your needs. I will try to find benchmarks when I have more time.

Honestly, what makes you think that a 4770k + two 780tis in SLI wouldn't handle 4k? i mean, look at bf4, 16FPS more is HUGE!!!! i really think amd did it with the 290x, it's a beastly card for a really really good price.

This:
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/gtx_780_ti_sli_geforce_review,23.html

What stops you from getting the 290x cf, they are way cheaper, support mantle, and jump over the 780ti sli in every way?

They are loud. Unbearably loud in fact, at the settings (Uber mode) you are likely referring to.

 

[Joniostis]

Haswell's IPC is 5-10% better, but Ivy Bride has a superior overclocking potential.

The 40 PCIe 3.0 lanes on the 2011 is a big advantage for LGA2011... especially for your needs. I will try to find benchmarks when I have more time.

Honestly, what makes you think that a 4770k + two 780tis in SLI wouldn't handle 4k? i mean, look at bf4, 16FPS more is HUGE!!!! i really think amd did it with the 290x, it's a beastly card for a really really good price.

This:
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/gtx_780_ti_sli_geforce_review,23.html

What stops you from getting the 290x cf, they are way cheaper, support mantle, and jump over the 780ti sli in every way?

They are loud. Unbearably loud in fact, at the settings (Uber mode) you are likely referring to.

How about the aftermarket models that are coming, they will definitely reduce both sound and heat. that could be a solid option imo. You could even go for 3 of those, as you have the budget, and i may believe that you'll have an (for most people) unseen gaming experience then

 

[ImperialistMillitant]

Running 3 GPU's off a normal 1150 chipset will cause one card to run at 8x lanes and the other 2 to run at 4x lanes. This will have an impact on performance. You need at least 8x on all GPU's so the 2011 is what I suggest, due to the extra PCI lanes.

I would get an i7 4820k (2011), I think this will work out cheaper than buying a 1150 motherboard with a PLX chip.

I have seen highly conflicting observations re: bandwidth required. While I see 4x at PCIe 2.0 being a bottleneck, 4x at PCIe 3.0 is pretty much equivalent to 8x at PCIe 2.0 ... and that I've never seen being an issue. Can you point to benchmarks or data which support your point?

I didnt know PCI 3.0 made that much of a difference. Also if you was to go with 1150 socket please tell me what motherboard you got as Im in the process of looking to power 2 R9 290s especially how crossfire is run over the PCI bus.

It does. Check it out for yourself (long version):
http://komposter.com.ua/documents/PCI_Express_Base_Specification_Revision_3.0.pdf

Or short version:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express#PCI_Express_3.0

Or even shorter version (quoting):
"PCIe 3.0's 8 GT/s bit rate effectively delivers 985 MB/s per lane, double PCIe 2.0 bandwidth"

So 4x PCIe 3.0 = 8x PCIe 2.0, and the difference betweeb 16x PCIe 2.0 and 8x PCIe 2.0 are ~2% in the real world, see e.g.:
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/296170-33-pcie

If I were to go 1150, I would go with the Asus Maximus VI - Either the formula or the extreme. For 2x crossfire the formula is fine but for 3x the extreme has benefits from the PLX chip.

I have been enlightened, thank you I shall read these.

 

[Lessthannil]

Haswell's IPC is 5-10% better, but Ivy Bride has a superior overclocking potential.

The 40 PCIe 3.0 lanes on the 2011 is a big advantage for LGA2011... especially for your needs. I will try to find benchmarks when I have more time.

Honestly, what makes you think that a 4770k + two 780tis in SLI wouldn't handle 4k? i mean, look at bf4, 16FPS more is HUGE!!!! i really think amd did it with the 290x, it's a beastly card for a really really good price.

This:
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/gtx_780_ti_sli_geforce_review,23.html

What stops you from getting the 290x cf, they are way cheaper, support mantle, and jump over the 780ti sli in every way?

They are loud. Unbearably loud in fact, at the settings (Uber mode) you are likely referring to.

How about the aftermarket models that are coming, they will definitely reduce both sound and heat. that could be a solid option imo. You could even go for 3 of those, as you have the budget, and i may believe that you'll have an (for most people) unseen gaming experience then

He's not going to watercool them, so having 3 toasty chips both blowing hot air on each other looks like a recipe for a disaster.

 

[mechan]

He's not going to watercool them, so having 3 toasty chips both blowing hot air on each other looks like a recipe for a disaster.

Right.

 

[oOSlushyOo]

This is intriguing....I vote LGA2011. However, this is based off of no "new" empirical data.

 

[Joniostis]

Dear TH community,

I am planning to build an nvidia 780 ti 3-way-sli system for 4k gaming on an Asus PN-K321 display (which I own already). Choice is between LGA2011 and LGA1150, and for the latter, on which board.

Design constrains:
- 3x Nvidia 780 ti 3-way-sli
- 4x 8GB of 2133 Mhz CAS 9 RAM
- Corsair H100i CPU cooler
- CaseLabs Merlin ST10 Case
- SeaSonic X Series 1250W PS
- Noctua NT-H1 3.5g Thermal Paste
- Assorted NF-P12 PWM (radiator), NF-S12A (case), Noctua NF-A14 PWM (case-rear) fans
- No need for on-board audio, using a separate Xonar STX card
- No need for integrated video of course
- Planning to start on closed-loop WC for CPU, air on video cards and chipset, and consider a custom loop later on only if acoustics/heat prove an issue
- Plan moderate (not extreme) overclocks, keeping acoustics in mind (i.e. stock fan profiles on the 780 ti)
- Appreciate on-board 802.11ac WiFi, as it saves me a PCIe slot
- I do no plan nor intend to delid a CPU
- Money not an issue, but no desire to overspend for no performance gain

Given the above, I am torn between three choices:

■ Core i7 4930k on an Asus Rampage IV Black Edition: $1,050
■ Core i7 4770k on an Asus Maximus VI Extreme: $720
■ Core i7 4770k on an Asus Maximus VI Formula: $640

My reasoning so far:
A) The extra 2 cores, and quad-channel (vs dual-channel) memory on the LGA2011 vs LGA1150 provide no measurable benefit whatsoever in gaming
B) The richer feature set of the Z87 (LGA1150) is useless to me vs the feature set of X79 (LGA2011); I am fine with 2x Sata 6G and few USB 3.0 ports
C) Haswell's IPC performance is advantaged vs IVB-E's IPC peformance ...
D) ... although Haswell's lack of solder between chip and IHS limits overclock headroom on that chip
E) Haswell's lower TDP (84W vs 130W) is a good thing in a very warm case to begin with
F) The 40 PCIe 3.0 lanes on the 2011 is a big advantage for tri-SLI ...
G) ... but it is made for with the PLX chip on the more expensive 1150 boards (e.g. Asus MVIE)

Thus I can't really make my mind up. Thoughts?

Best regards,

Mechan

On the formula solution you're not even able to set up 3 nvidia cards

there's a max of 2 nvidia and 3 amd cards on that mobo

 

[Luka Prebil Grintal]

SLI doesnt support x4. if youre going with 1150, you need a mobo with a PLX chip to get to x8, and those are expensive.

but so is 2011. id go with 1150 just due to it not being an EOL socket and having more features, plus PLX only adds very little latency to the game (think i read this with numbers on anandtech)

 

[vmN]

Haswell's IPC is 5-10% better, but Ivy Bride has a superior overclocking potential.

The 40 PCIe 3.0 lanes on the 2011 is a big advantage for LGA2011... especially for your needs. I will try to find benchmarks when I have more time.

Honestly, what makes you think that a 4770k + two 780tis in SLI wouldn't handle 4k? i mean, look at bf4, 16FPS more is HUGE!!!! i really think amd did it with the 290x, it's a beastly card for a really really good price.

This:
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/gtx_780_ti_sli_geforce_review,23.html

What stops you from getting the 290x cf, they are way cheaper, support mantle, and jump over the 780ti sli in every way?

They are loud. Unbearably loud in fact, at the settings (Uber mode) you are likely referring to.

How about the aftermarket models that are coming, they will definitely reduce both sound and heat. that could be a solid option imo. You could even go for 3 of those, as you have the budget, and i may believe that you'll have an (for most people) unseen gaming experience then

It shouldn't reduce the heat.
the 290-290x was made to be running at 95c.

 

[vmN]

Haswell's IPC is 5-10% better, but Ivy Bride has a superior overclocking potential.

The 40 PCIe 3.0 lanes on the 2011 is a big advantage for LGA2011... especially for your needs. I will try to find benchmarks when I have more time.

Honestly, what makes you think that a 4770k + two 780tis in SLI wouldn't handle 4k? i mean, look at bf4, 16FPS more is HUGE!!!! i really think amd did it with the 290x, it's a beastly card for a really really good price.

This:
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/gtx_780_ti_sli_geforce_review,23.html

What stops you from getting the 290x cf, they are way cheaper, support mantle, and jump over the 780ti sli in every way?

780 ti should be faster than the 290x.
I havent really seen a 780ti SLI vs 290x CF, but 780ti should still win, maybe not by much and maybe not worth the $200-300 extra.