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Will joining the USAF or USN help my son?

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December 27, 2013 10:44:26 AM

My 22 year old son had fallen into bad company. We supported his education, but he did not attend school regularly; and he got suspended twice. He started drinking. He gets very loud and physical when he is angry. He is good with computers and eventually want to learn programming. I recommended joining the Army, AF or Navy. I strongly feel that this will help him get disciplined and become a better person. My husband is against it. He feels we should try other paths to help him. Please help me understand the challenges better. My son is a vegetarian. Thank you,

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December 27, 2013 10:49:06 AM

I joined the Australian Airforce Cadets and i became a much quieter and calmer person It also helped me become more disciplined i thoroughly enjoyed my time there and i am sure the army/ airforce/ navy would do the same on a grander scale
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December 27, 2013 10:53:53 AM

Krishna Moorthy said:
I joined the Australian Airforce Cadets and i became a much quieter and calmer person It also helped me become more disciplined i thoroughly enjoyed my time there and i am sure the army/ airforce/ navy would do the same on a grander scale


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December 27, 2013 11:00:05 AM

Thank you, Mr.Krishna Moorthy for your positive feed back. I would like to learn more from you.
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December 27, 2013 11:02:30 AM

Usaf and navy are great for schooling and careers outside the military. Look into the usaf or navy either would be ideal!
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December 27, 2013 11:12:51 AM

Disclaimer: Retired USAF. Aircraft mechanic, then programmer, now civilian programmer for the AF.

The military is not a social club to fix what ails ya. It is there to perform a mission. Often a very, very, very dangerous mission. If he can support the mission, great. If not, I don't want him. In too many jobs, there are a multitude of ways to blow yourself up. I don't want him on the jet next to me when he does.

At age 22, you can't force him to do it. Either he will or he won't. No matter what you and hubby say. Suggest...guide. But if I was a recruiter, and a 22 year old showed up with his mom...that's a strike against.

I've seen military service help some people...other, we had to kick out. "You're not a bad kid, Willie, you just don't belong here"
As far as loud and physical? That will quickly get taken out of him. No matter how big and bad he may be, there is always multiple someones bigger and badder. Or smaller and badder.

For the job/programming side - currently, there are fewer than 300 programmers total on active duty in the USAF. 0.1% of active duty. Is he that good? Requirements are VERY tough. I don't know about the Army and Navy, but I expect not too much different.
Lots of networking jobs, though. Again, not easy to get.

And over the next year or two, military size is decreasing again. Making spots even harder to get.
Did he finish high school with a diploma? Any legal troubles? All of that comes into account.
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December 27, 2013 11:34:17 AM

Thank you, for your response, it is very informative. Yes, I understand that if I go with him to enlist, that would be a strike and he cannot be forced! Military, army, AF or Navy are not social clubs; but are government organizations with important missions. It should be his decision, and it is his decision! He did graduate high school Summa cum laude. He has been programming since high school. Finally, thank you for your service in the USAF!
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December 27, 2013 11:49:43 AM

choosead said:
Thank you, for your response, it is very informative. Yes, I understand that if I go with him to enlist, that would be a strike and he cannot be forced! Military, army, AF or Navy are not social clubs; but are government organizations with important missions. It should be his decision, and it is his decision! He did graduate high school Summa cum laude. He has been programming since high school. Finally, thank you for your service in the USAF!


If you have any deeper questions, please PM me. Navigating through the recruiter morass, and what to expect after, can be daunting.
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December 27, 2013 11:57:18 AM

*Waves to Mod*. SGT USAF 1989-1997, Computer Communitcations Journeyman.

First off there is two different elements to the Military, the Officers and the Enlisted. Officers 'run things' and have all the degrees to start off with (in fact you can't be a Officer if you don't have a Bachelor's degree before your sent to Officer School, except in specialized circumstances - i..e Battlefield Commissions). Enlisted are the 'grunts' to 'do' the work ordered. They need the necessary training to complete that field, but they aren't going to be the 'Lawyers, Programmers, Doctors' you may want for your son.

If he WANTS to join the military, then he will, there is no 'sending him' as was in the case of the draft (i.e. gets drunk, has a bar fight, judge tells him he gets to serve his country instead of jail for 5 years for assault). If he sees the opportunity worth it, he will put the effort in as they say 'only those whom put themselves into something get something out of it'.

If he has a 'degree' in programming, then he could apply for OTS (Officer Training School) with a LOT better paycheck immediately, many more opportunities, and he can 'boss people around' (considering his aggressive attitude your saying that might all appeal to him). If he just 'programs' then you really have no clue and I wouldn't go focusing on that, he can be appointed for many a task.

Army: Pretty much all soldiers are expected to fight, and are trained how to fight in combat, then escalated to a specialization based on ARMY needs. Ranks for Army Enlisted are nicknamed 'Velcro' because of how quickly they hand them out and strip them off the shoulder. Officers are the 'Elite' and expect to make a career out of it, but we are taking very diverse fields from Nuclear Physics to commanding a Platoon of Tanks. Some are very career forward, some are very dead end, but they are stepping stones for Officers to 'move up' the political chain. Enlisted get screwed because if your a Tank Driver / Gun Loader there isn't any 'Civilian' jobs similiar to that.

Navy: Again split, the Officers command the Enlisted, but both Officer and Enlisted is expected to learn / be able to function in ANY part of a SHIP. That means they can be clearing out the Bilge (toilets) to hanging on the side of the ship during a storm repairing the electrical communications gear. The Officers are meant to earn thier way up to 'Command thier own ship one day', while enlisted deal with alot of 'crap duty' till they get higher enough they can order the 'new seamen' what to do.

Air Force: Often referred to as the 'Desk Force' since we all revolved around a Air Force Base to be on, to get the planes up to do the 'job' they were designed for. Highly technical, but all Officers (like Navy) are expected and trained to fly aircraft (primary job), and work the 'political trail' from job to job to move up the 'right chain' to get the better jobs (i.e. being in charge of a Air Force Base of thier own say in Hawaii?). Enlisted are expected to do the work, but be highly technically skilled, not necessarily 'educated' as the civilian counterparts (is why the Air Force has ALOT of Civlian / Contract workers to 'reduce costs'). All Air Force are now expected to be able to 'military ready' which means trained to pack up and deploy within a few hours to any place in the world, setup a new base, and to 'augment' the other forces (remember all those convoys getting blown up on youtube in Iraq? Those were Navy/Air Force people doing the job so the Army/Marines could to the 'real fighting').

Marines: All Officers and Enlisted are MARINES, period. While the Officers command and have similiar jobs like the Navy they fall under (they aren't a separate 'branch') like Attorney's, Doctors, etc. while the Enlisted does the 'labor work', all Marines are expected, trained, and under the doctrine to FIGHT as Marines, first in, last out, with thier hands to any modern weapon. So a Officer would be standing with the Gunery Sgt telling the other Marines to fill sand bags, but then grab a shovel and fill them as well 'fortify the position', grab thier gun and be part of the combat, while directing and managing the 'troops attacks' through the Gunny. They are very unique, hardcore, and exemplify the demands met upon them.


Some source material: ' Saving Private Ryan' (WWII Soldiers), 'We were Soldiers' (Vietnam Soldiers), 'Black Hawk Down' (Iraq-Generation Soldiers).
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December 27, 2013 12:02:49 PM

Thank you, I am learning a lot! He does not have a degree yet, he is working towards it. He has some programming experience. I will share your information with my husband.
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December 31, 2013 9:20:03 PM

I know you are considering the USAF or USN, but have you considered the USMC? It will teach him discipline, self-respect and give him the skills he'll need like commitment, leadership and what it means to be a part of a unified team. Right now it appears he's searching for something, and maybe it will help him find it.
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January 1, 2014 9:26:25 AM

It is finally his choice, he has been going online and learning about different options. He is currently more positive about USAF. He also sees opportunities in his field of computers with USAF. I am just glad that he is taking more interest at this time.
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January 1, 2014 1:58:59 PM

Quote:
....He also sees opportunities in his field of computers with USAF....

He also needs to be aware that what job code is assigned, and where he is posted, is entirely up to the Air Force. He may be recruited for a job in computers, but if the Air Force is full up in that area and needs, say, more cooks, he could easily be detailed out as a cook.

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January 2, 2014 6:53:43 PM

Actually it is what the recruiters are bonused on that they push you into. Basically he needs a Plan A, B and C gameplan and he needs to stay in it. There are no 'programmers' in the AirForce (491x1 if memory serves me) because they all been 'out sourced' as they have been across all the branches. The only 'programmer' like area is if he focused on Management Information System, which is telling the people what needs to be done, setting the criteria, keeping them in budget, and ensure they deliver the product as wanted.

All the services have 'computers' in one fashion or another, be it just simply doing 'paperwork' or running a nuke drill firing sequence in a Sub. Working on a computer isn't the real 'job', as a new recruit he gets all the 'shit' details (literally), be it cleaning toilets, picking up cigarette butts, scraping the side of a ship, whatever the details are the 'new' recuits do that for the first couple of years until they are no longer the new recruits. Officers on the other hand don't get 'shit duties' except to do the stuff like all the midnight shifts, or doing all the paperwork for the Senior Officers, to even just being the one holding the General's Golf Clubs or overseeing/serving the meals to the General's Banquet. Again they still get paid alot better for that then the Enlisted.

So he should sit down and honestly consider what three 'dreams' he had, if they are 'grunt' work (driving trucks, being a nurse, firing really big guns, etc.) then he can use them to search for the Military Career Code and find the job descriptions most likely he would try for. He needs to VERY firm, to the point that he is willing to walk out, on submitting for those positions and not what ever the Recruiter is selling for this month. It will ALWAYS be contingent on his 'score'. It is a series of tests to see what his mental capabilities are and strengths. Based on the 'scrores' allow him to work in one or more segments of the jobs possible, then can be drilled down to 'options' which the recruiter see how many and when the positions might be open. Then presents them basically on what the recruiter has been ordered (and bonuses are based on) to sell best and keep pushing, down selling anything else.

If he goes 'General' with no preference, then yes whatever position in whatever is opened he will be reserved into based on what he agrees to. In the Army that is mainly Infratry (the soldier in the mud with his weapon), Navy it is assigment right after technical school to a seaborne ship (normally minimum of six months at sea before coming back to port again).

The best option I seen before (I don't know if they still do it) is you do a 2 for 1 Officership program. So you can almost pic any Major to sign up for, up to 8 Years (to allow for Doctors, Nuclear Sciences, etc.) and the military will pay the entire cost including a stipedend for living expenses and your in ROTC. The requirement is you HAVE to graduate (or you pay the entire thing back) then shipped to Officer Training School (OTS), which again you have to pass. Once your 'commissioned' by the President you will be committed to exactly 2x the amount of school time. 4 Year college, 8 years service guaranteed (Unless there is a Congressional override) to 'repay' for your loans. Alot of Doctors do this so they have both the education, as well as the 'experiance' to then start thier practice when they 'get out'
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January 2, 2014 6:59:23 PM

Tom Tancredi said:
Actually it is what the recruiters are bonused on that they push you into. Basically he needs a Plan A, B and C gameplan and he needs to stay in it. There are no 'programmers' in the AirForce (491x1 if memory serves me) because they all been 'out sourced' as they have been across all the branches. The only 'programmer' like area is if he focused on Management Information System, which is telling the people what needs to be done, setting the criteria, keeping them in budget, and ensure they deliver the product as wanted.


Actually, there are about 300 active duty programmers in the AF. I work with at least 3 of them. One of them a new kid, just came in about a year ago.
Few and far between, but they are there.
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January 3, 2014 11:11:29 AM

Reminds me when I was looking through the job descriptions and the Air Force had Train Drivers. I was looking at that as, hey I get out and can have a direct career transition. Then found out while there was still 125 train operators, they were being phased out, as part of the old MX program. SO unless someone retired or changed careers before the program was ended, the jobs were 'filled' and still on the books, but "few and far between".
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